Global25 Modelling of SE Asians. Noticeable AASI and West Eurasian (Genetic Legacy of Indian Empire) [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Maguzanci

06-04-2019, 05:41 PM

Ahem....

Here are the following Global 25 models for SE Asians. Pretty notable amounts of AASI and Western Eurasian ancestry. Seems like Ancient India left considerable genetic influence in the region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Indian_influence_on_Southeast_Asia

In these models, I will use Iranian Mazandarani (although they might contain very tiny amounts of AASI as well) and other Western Eurasian populations and Simulated AASI sources instead of South Asians to model the SE Asians. This is because I want to gauge the actual amount of AASI and Western Eurasian ancestry in SE Asians. However, it does indicate that the Indian genetic influence in SE Asia is genuine and not just AASI or Negrito-related affinity.

Note 1: the fact that Iranian Mazandarani is used in these models does not mean that SE Asians actually have Iranian ancestry. Instead, it is utilized as a proxy for Western Eurasian admixture into these populations.

Note 2: I did not create models for other SE Asians like the Vietnamese, Murut, Dusun etc because they don't have any Western Eurasian. In the case of the Pinos (Luzon and Vizayan samples), I also did not model them because they seem to have very little to almost none Indian ancestry. So if the Pinos have any West Eurasian, it mostly comes from Iberian colonization or Arabs (in the case of Pino Muslims in the southern Phils) rather than mixing with Indians.

Note 3: there are no Laotians in Global 25, but I suspect they will be like the Dai and Vietnamese, which is basically zero West Eurasian admix.

Let's Begin!!!.....

Burmese: They are around 7% West Eurasian and 10% AASI. When you combined them, you get around 17% South Asian admix. I wonder whether is it North or South Indian ancestry, what caste in their case. From what I saw on Gedmatch results, I thought the Burmese would be more Indian admixed than this. I guess some of their South Asian admix is actually AASI/Negrito-related affinity.

Yi is used as source for the Tibeto-Burman ancestry of the Burmese. Burmese are a lot more northern-shifted than other SE Asians who mostly preferred Dai (Tai-Kradai population from Southern China) or Igorot (tribe from the Phils)

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 1.4199,
"Yi": 68.33,
"LAO_LN_BA": 15,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 6.67,

Thai: has the most Western ancestry of all the SE Asians. The samples here are around 9% Western Eurasian (although might be slightly less if Iranian Mazandarani contains tiny amounts of AASI) and 7% AASI. Combined that will get around 16% South Asian which surprised as I thought they would get more Indian ancestry than that. Again, am wondering if their Indian ancestry is North or South, Upper or lower caste?

"sample": "Thai:Average",
"fit": 1.6814,
"Dai": 70.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 13.33,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 9.17,
"Simulated_AASI": 6.67,

However, the distance fits for the Thai get better when you add Han in to the mix (There were historical migrations into Siam/Thailand from Southern China in large numbers. A lot of Chinese intermarried with the locals to the point that as many as 40% of Thais could have a partial Chinese ancestor in their bloodline)

This time the Western Eurasian in Thai average decrease from 9 to 8%. Now the Thai have around 15% South Asian when combining the Iran Mazandaran and Simulated AASI. But the Thai also have almost 20% Chinese ancestry.

"sample": "Test1:Thai",
"fit": 1.2433,
"Dai": 40.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 25.83,
"Han": 18.33,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 6.67,

Cambodian: they have around 3% Western and 4% AASI here. Combining these two would get around 7% Indian. They have the lowest West Eurasian and AASI ancestry among the SE Asians which sort of make sense as they are geographically rather distant from the Indian subcontinent. Also their Indian ancestry is very ancient; they don't seem to get continuous South Asian gene flows like the Burmese. In their case, their South Asian ancestry is most likely South Indian as their architecture is most similar to those of South India.

"sample": "Cambodian:Average",
"fit": 1.6315,
"Dai": 55.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 36.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 4.17,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 3.33,

Malay: they have around 6% West Eurasian and 6% AASI ancestry. Combining that would get them at around 12% South Asian. I thought their Indian ancestry would be higher as Malaysia received a lot of South Indian migrants and several of them seem to assimilated or intermarried with the Malays. This makes me I speculated that a huge amount if not most of their South Asian ancestry is from South India.

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 1.5848,
"Malaysia_LN": 55,
"Igorot": 33.33,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 5.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 5.83,

Some thoughts:

-As you can see here, the Burmese seem to have the highest South Asian and the Cambodian have the lowest. However in terms of West Eurasian ancestry, the Thai have the highest and again, the Cambodians have the lowest.

-These models show that the South Asian ancestry in a lot of SE Asian populations are authentic and not just AASI/Negrito-related affinity. This is the great genetic legacy of the Indian Empire!!! ;)

-I find it strange that the Burmese have less West Eurasian than the Thai considering that they actually bordered the South Asian subcontinent. Makes me ponder where in Thailand and Myanmar the scientists collect these samples from.

-Burmese are the most northern genetically of all the SE Asians as seen by their requirement for Yi, a Tibeto-Burman in order to get a great fit. Other SE Asians like Thai, Cambodian and Malay are a lot more southern-shifted as seen by their preference of Dai and Igorot as their East Asian admixture source.

-It looks like the Indian genetic influence does not penetrate into groups that live in deeper interior parts of SE Asia such as Vietnamese, Laotians the Dayaks of Borneo or hill tribes in Northern parts of the region.

-It would be awesome if the geneticists could collect samples from other SE Asians such as the Acehnese, Cham, Indonesian Batak (the Batak in Global 25 is actually a Negrito population from the Phils), Mon, Minangkabau, Javanese/Balinese, Madurese, Rakhine, etc. This is because these populations also have considerable South Asian cultural influence. Thus we can get to figure out how much South Asian aka West Eurasian+AASI they really have.

-Where in Thailand and Myanmar do you think they got the samples from? I would like to hear your opinions

Thoughts? Opinions on these models? I will post other versions of the SE Asian models using different West Eurasian sources as well.

Maguzanci

06-04-2019, 06:32 PM

Accidental double post.

Thambi

06-04-2019, 11:51 PM

Mortimer

06-05-2019, 12:49 AM

Cool

Zoro

06-05-2019, 02:55 AM

I find it strange that the Burmese have less West Eurasian than the Thai considering that they actually bordered the South Asian subcontinent. Makes me ponder where in Thailand and Myanmar the scientists collect these samples from.

Strange indeed but instead of finding fault in where the scientists collected the samples don’t you think the reason is because the G25 is far from perfect. I mean it’s based on PCA coordinates and it’s common knowledge that PCA coordinates vary alot depending on which samples are included when making the PCA.

I don’t get why people give so much credit to things Davidski comes up with. I mean who is the guy anyway. What are his degrees and qualifications. I searched for him online and was not able to come up with any qualifications or research articles for Davidski or David Wesolowski. NOTHING...Pretty strange if you ask me.:confused:

Borealis

06-05-2019, 03:05 AM

Borealis

06-05-2019, 03:08 AM

duplicate

Maguzanci

06-05-2019, 03:09 AM

Maguzanci

06-05-2019, 04:05 AM

Most of this genetic influence must be coming from Cholas, who would be similar to modern day south indian midcastes from andhra/tamilnadu. I think the chola kings married into some elite groups of that region.

The word 'Keling' is used to refer to people of the indian subcontinent, especially south indians/tamils, in singapore/malaysia. So i think there was some genetic flow to SE asia from orissa and maybe even bengal region.
http://www.sramholidays.com/angkor-wat-reminisce-of-indian-legacy-and-gloryon-cambodian-soil/
https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DvsdfViUwAA1wBI.jpg

Hmm thanks for your response. Yeah I also think most of the Indian ancestry come during the Chola and other Indian Empires. In the case of Burma, they could received continuous gene flows from actually bordering South Asia and the Indian communities in Myanmar along with probably the Rohingya as well. In Malays, they also could received more recent gene flow from Indian migrants and settlers in the Malay Peninsula brought by the British.

Borealis

06-05-2019, 04:25 AM

I think adding Lao LN BA and Lao BA would give better fits at least. Also in the case of Burmese, I think using Naxi or Yi would be better as Burmese always need a Tibeto Burman source population, they are northern shifted compared to most SE Asians.

Do you think the Thai is around 8-9%, Burmese is 7%, Cambodian is 3% and Malay is 6% West Eurasian/Caucasoid (using Iran Mazandaran as proxy) as the models suggested?

Hoabinhian is very Onge/Jarawa like, which is why I wanted to use it as a source to isolate negrito ancestry. Yes, I guess that would be the case. Just using raw population distances:

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 49.5254,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Cambodian:Average",
"fit": 53.2349,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 51.9807,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Thai:Average",
"fit": 49.9218,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

arkas

06-05-2019, 04:29 AM

Is there more genetic admixture from SEA in South Asian populations or the other way around?

Maguzanci

06-05-2019, 04:40 AM

Is there more genetic admixture from SEA in South Asian populations or the other way around?

The other way around I think. I'd assume there is more genetic influence from South Asia into SEA. Although there is also SE Asian genetic transgression into South Asia in the form of the Munda, who are a group of Austroasiatic speaking tribals. Mundas are predominantly AASI and significant East Asian (which they get from their SE Asian ancestry) and minor to very little amounts of Western genetic affinity (this is from mixing later with Ancestral South Indians).

Borealis

06-05-2019, 04:46 AM

The other way around I think. I'd assume there is more genetic influence from South Asia into SEA. Although there is also SE Asian genetic transgression into South Asia in the form of the Munda, who are a group of Austroasiatic speaking tribals. Mundas are predominantly AASI and significant East Asian (which they get from their SE Asian ancestry) and small to very little amounts of Western genetic affinity (this is from mixing later with Ancestral South Indians).

Bengalis and people along the Himalayan belt also have some sort SE Asian ancestry.

Maguzanci

06-05-2019, 04:53 AM

Bengalis and people along the Himalayan belt also have some sort SE Asian ancestry.

Yeah I forget about the Bengalis. People along Himalayan Belts= .Nepalis, NE Indians? Also the Assamese as well who have SE Asian

Borealis

06-05-2019, 04:59 AM

Yeah I forget about the Bengalis. People along Himalayan Belts= .Nepalis, NE Indians? Also the Assamese as well who have SE Asian

Yes Nepalis mainly. I think NE Indians are a different category in their own right. People in states like Utarrakhand/Himachal are also Nepali like.

Maguzanci

06-11-2019, 05:50 AM

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 3.6496,
"Han": 44.17,
"Dai": 33.33,
"Madiga": 11.67,
"LAO_Hoabinhian": 10.83,

"sample": "Kinh_Vietnam:Average",
"fit": 0.9823,
"Dai": 80,
"Han": 17.5,
"LAO_Hoabinhian": 1.67,
"Madiga": 0.83,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 7.909,
"Dai": 79.17,
"LAO_Hoabinhian": 17.5,
"Madiga": 3.33,
"Han": 0,

"sample": "Thai:Average",
"fit": 2.3914,
"Dai": 79.17,
"LAO_Hoabinhian": 10.83,
"Madiga": 10,
"Han": 0,

Here is the most West Eurasian-shifted Malay sample: Seem to be around 16% South Asian (based on the three Indian pops) with mostly South Indian with minor North Indian.

sample": "Test1:Malay_-_SGVP00120",
"fit": 1.6873,
"Malaysia_LN": 55,
"Igorot": 20,
"Han": 8.33,
"Dusadh": 7.5,
"Iyer": 6.67,
"Sindhi": 1.67,
"Yemenite_Dhamar": 0.83,

The fit is better is slightly better when you don't add the Arab (Yemenite Dhamar) tho. So I think this Malay individual might not have Arab admix. This time the individual score more Sindhi which represent more North Indian/Pakistani admixture. Still has around 16% South Asian admix.

"sample": "Test1:Malay_-_SGVP00120",
"fit": 1.5785,
"Malaysia_LN": 55,
"Igorot": 20.83,
"Han": 7.5,
"Dusadh": 5.83,
"Iyer": 5.83,
"Sindhi": 5,

Now compare the 16% South Asian to the 9% West Eurasian (represented by Sarazm and Yamnaya) that this Malay sample is scoring.

"sample": "Test1:Malay_-_SGVP00120",
"fit": 1.8221,
"Malaysia_LN": 54.17,
"Igorot": 20,
"Han": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 8.33,
"TJK_Sarazm_Eneolithic": 5.83,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 3.33,

Fits get slightly worse when using Parkhai Eneolithic. So Sarazm seems to be a better proxy

"sample": "Test1:Malay_-_SGVP00120",
"fit": 1.9565,
"Malaysia_LN": 54.17,
"Igorot": 20,
"Han": 9.17,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 8.33,
"TKM_Parkhai_Eneolithic": 6.67,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 1.67,

Maguzanci

06-11-2019, 05:51 AM

Hoabinhian is very Onge/Jarawa like, which is why I wanted to use it as a source to isolate negrito ancestry. Yes, I guess that would be the case. Just using raw population distances:

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 49.5254,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Cambodian:Average",
"fit": 53.2349,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 51.9807,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

"sample": "Thai:Average",
"fit": 49.9218,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 100,

Here are some models for Thai individual samples. I choose the four most West Eurasian-shifted Thai individuals. I am speculating that some Thai individual samples are from Southern Thailand close to Malaysia because they are scoring some Malaysia_LN. All of them also have some Han Chinese ancestry which reflect the historical massive migration of Chinese migrants from South China into Thailand, which a lot have assimilated and intermarried with the locals.

Thai DCH002: Interesting this individual seem to be around 20-21% South Asian, being mostly Gujarati+South Indian (represented by North Kannadi) and some North Indian/Paki admixture (represented by Ror from Haryana)

"sample": "Test1:Thai_-_DCH002",
"fit": 1.7746,
"Htin_Mal": 34.17,
"Han": 22.5,
"Dai": 10,
"Malaysia_LN": 10,
"Gujarati": 8.33,
"North_Kannadi": 7.5,
"Ror": 5,
"Igorot": 2.5,
"LAO_LN_BA": 0,

Now compare to the West Eurasian score (using Sarazm and Yamnaya BGR): this Thai individual has around 12% West Eurasian ancestry. So looks like the West Eurasian comes from South Asian ancestry (mostly Gujarati+South Indian+some Ror in this case along with AASI which represented the indigenous part of South Asians). Also I have feeling this sample is from Southern Thailand as it scores around 11% Malaysia_LN.

"sample": "Test1:Thai_-_DCH002",
"fit": 1.8391,
"Htin_Mal": 27.5,
"Han": 21.67,
"Dai": 16.67,
"Malaysia_LN": 10.83,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 10,
"TJK_Sarazm_Eneolithic": 5.83,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 5.83,
"Igorot": 1.67,
"LAO_LN_BA": 0,

Thai DCH008: This sample have around 12% Chinese (represented by Han) admixture. This sample is around 20% South Asian ancestry. Unlike the first individual, this sample seem to be more South Indian (North Kannadi) followed by Gujarati and Northwest Indian/Pakistani-like (Ror) admixture.

"sample": "Test2:Thai_-_DCH008",
"fit": 2.1514,
"Dai": 23.33,
"Htin_Mal": 23.33,
"Han": 11.67,
"LAO_LN_BA": 10,
"Igorot": 8.33,
"North_Kannadi": 8.33,
"Gujarati": 5.83,
"Ror": 5.83,
"Malaysia_LN": 3.33,

Now compare the South Asian score to the West Eurasian (Sarazm+Yamnaya BGR) amount: this Thai is scoring around 12% West Eurasian ancestry. It makes me wonder if most of the West Eurasian comes from the South Asian ancestry this individual is scoring. Also this individual seems to score minor Igorot (Austronesian hill tribe from Phils) admixture which surprises me a bit. It makes me wonder where in Thailand the results are from.

"sample": "Test2:Thai_-_DCH008",
"fit": 2.217,
"Dai": 27.5,
"Htin_Mal": 21.67,
"Han": 10.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 10.83,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 8.33,
"Igorot": 7.5,
"TJK_Sarazm_Eneolithic": 7.5,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 4.17,
"Malaysia_LN": 1.67,

Thai DCH006: this individual has around 17-18% South Asian ancestry and most of it seems to be Gujarati+Ror followed by South Indian-like (North Kannadi) affinity. This individual also have the smallest Han admixture among all the four Thai samples.

"sample": "Test1:Thai_-_DCH006",
"fit": 1.9371,
"Htin_Mal": 45,
"Dai": 15,
"Malaysia_LN": 9.17,
"Han": 7.5,
"Gujarati": 6.67,
"Ror": 6.67,
"LAO_LN_BA": 5.83,
"North_Kannadi": 4.17,
"Igorot": 0,

Now compare the South Asian score to the West Eurasian score of the same individual. This Thai (Thai DCH006) has around 10% West Eurasian ancestry (Sarazm+Yamnaya BGR) and also 7.5% AASI (which is also likely come from South Asian or Negrito ancestry) which could correlated with the 17-18% South Asian affinity they are scoring

sample": "Test1:Thai_-_DCH006",
"fit": 2.0754,
"Htin_Mal": 38.33,
"Dai": 15,
"Malaysia_LN": 15,
"Han": 10,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 7.5,
"TJK_Sarazm_Eneolithic": 5.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 4.17,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 4.17,
"Igorot": 0,

Thai DCH010: the fourth sample has around 20% South Asian admixture (mostly Gujarati+South Indian followed by minor NW Indian/Pakistani aka Ror-like ancestry). Also this sample has around 15% Han Chinese admix.

"sample": "Test2:Thai_-_DCH010",
"fit": 1.7457,
"Htin_Mal": 27.5,
"Dai": 25.83,
"Han": 15,
"Malaysia_LN": 10.83,
"Gujarati": 8.33,
"North_Kannadi": 7.5,
"Ror": 4.17,
"Igorot": 0.83,
"LAO_LN_BA": 0,

Now compare the South Asian score to the West Eurasian and AASI score: this individual has around 11% West Eurasian and 9% AASI ancestry. I think this really correlates with the 20% South Asian admixture this Thai is scoring. Am also wondering where in the country this result is from.

"sample": "Test2:Thai_-_DCH010",
"fit": 1.8299,
"Dai": 30,
"Htin_Mal": 30,
"Han": 13.33,
"Simulated_AASI_Averaged": 9.17,
"Malaysia_LN": 6.67,
"Yamnaya_BGR": 5.83,
"TJK_Sarazm_Eneolithic": 5,
"Igorot": 0,
"LAO_LN_BA": 0,

1R0N M4N XL

07-03-2019, 08:56 PM

cool! :)

Mingle

07-23-2019, 09:01 PM

Let's Begin!!!.....

Burmese: They are around 7% West Eurasian and 10% AASI. When you combined them, you get around 17% South Asian admix. I wonder whether is it North or South Indian ancestry, what caste in their case. From what I saw on Gedmatch results, I thought the Burmese would be more Indian admixed than this. I guess some of their South Asian admix is actually AASI/Negrito-related affinity.

Yi is used as source for the Tibeto-Burman ancestry of the Burmese. Burmese are a lot more northern-shifted than other SE Asians who mostly preferred Dai (Tai-Kradai population from Southern China) or Igorot (tribe from the Phils)

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 1.4199,
"Yi": 68.33,
"LAO_LN_BA": 15,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"Iranian_Mazandarani": 6.67,

The Yi and Dai samples are very likely part Indian. Yi and Dai people were historically part of the Indosphere and wrote with Brahmi scripts like the rest of Southeast Asia before China annexed Yunnan.

I think we need some more ancient samples to check their actual South Asian admixture. Also, not all of the AASI is gonna from Indians. Some is probably from Indians while some is from ancient Neolithic SE Asians.

What is the LAO_LN_BA supposed to be like genetically? Looks like a Bronze Age sample.

Also, I'd avoid mixing samples from different eras personally. We should try to make a purely Iron Age calculator and then we can model them with Indians after.

-I find it strange that the Burmese have less West Eurasian than the Thai considering that they actually bordered the South Asian subcontinent. Makes me ponder where in Thailand and Myanmar the scientists collect these samples from.

Could be cause they received additional Tibeto-Burman input from Yunnan later on that Thailand didn't receive. I know that Hans migrated to Thailand, but some also migrated to Myanmar. Due to their lower population, they would have been more likely to assimilate in Myanmar compared to Thailand. Also, due to being closer to India, they may have been more hostile to Indians settling their land as priests or whatever. Just speculating. Could just as well be a bad sample. This surprised me as well.

-It looks like the Indian genetic influence does not penetrate into groups that live in deeper interior parts of SE Asia such as Vietnamese, Laotians the Dayaks of Borneo or hill tribes in Northern parts of the region.

Some interior mountainous parts of Nusantara (such as those in the Philippines of Borneo) weren't ever Indianized really. They didn't ever become Hindu/Buddhist and were animist tribal people. So I wouldn't expect them to have much Indian influence.

North Vietnam (Kinhs/ethnic Vietnamese are not native to South Vietnam) was part of the Sinosphere not the Indosphere so they shouldn't have any Indian blood.

-It would be awesome if the geneticists could collect samples from other SE Asians such as the Acehnese, Cham, Indonesian Batak (the Batak in Global 25 is actually a Negrito population from the Phils), Mon, Minangkabau, Javanese/Balinese, Madurese, Rakhine, etc. This is because these populations also have considerable South Asian cultural influence. Thus we can get to figure out how much South Asian aka West Eurasian+AASI they really have.

The Bataks would probably be similar to the Dayaks since they're from mountainous north Sumatra. The others are probably similar to what you'd expect (Mons close to Khmer, Rakhines close to other Burmese, Javanese close to Malays, etc). I'd be curious how similar Chams and Acehnese are since the Cham are of Acehnese origin.

Thambi

07-24-2019, 04:14 AM

The Yi and Dai samples are very likely part Indian. Yi and Dai people were historically part of the Indosphere and wrote with Brahmi scripts like the rest of Southeast Asia before China annexed Yunnan.

I think we need some more ancient samples to check their actual South Asian admixture. Also, not all of the AASI is gonna from Indians. Some is probably from Indians while some is from ancient Neolithic SE Asians.

What is the LAO_LN_BA supposed to be like genetically? Looks like a Bronze Age sample.

Also, I'd avoid mixing samples from different eras personally. We should try to make a purely Iron Age calculator and then we can model them with Indians after.

"sample": "Burmese:Average",
"fit": 1.3504,
"NPL_Chokhopani_2700BP_Averaged": 56.67,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 22.5,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 8.33,
"Mongolia_XiongNu_Averaged": 4.17,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N_Averaged": 2.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 2.5,
"RUS_Khvalynsk_En_Averaged": 1.67,
"Simulated_AASI_South_by_DMXX_Averaged": 1.67,

"Cambodian:Average", (no west eurasian. only AASI. Cambodians seem to have no indic influence tbh)
"fit": 2.3577,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 36.67,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 36.67,
"Mongolia_XiongNu_Averaged": 24.17,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 2.5,

"Thai:Average", (Thais have the most south asian in SE asia. Its only 10% on average, though there are some samples that are chinese mixed. It could be pulling the average. Same with burmese where one sample is chinese out of the three available)
"fit": 2.5906,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 32.5,
"Mongolia_XiongNu_Averaged": 32.5,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 25.83,
"IRN_Ganj_Dareh_N_Averaged": 5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 4.17,

Burmese have around 8% south asian (4.17% west eurasian and 4.17% AASI) and Thais have around 10% (5% west eurasian and 4.17% AASI). Pretty certain all the AASI in this is from Indians themselves since when malaysia LN and Vietnam N are used, Lao ancient samples get no AASI. Also the ganj dareh doubled is basically what indic percentage is. If its 5% ganj dareh, then its 10% south asian influence since south indian midcastes are half AASI and half iran neolithic. btw the ancient lao haobinhan was completely onge like, however, it cant be used for modern southeast asian pops since they give terrible fits. Only options are to use neolithic or bronze age ones like the lao_ln_ba, malaysian, vietnamese, and thailand iron age sample.

"LAO_BA:Average",
"fit": 2.4422,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 72.5,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 24.17,
"Onge_Averaged": 2.5,
"RUS_MA1_Averaged": 0.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0,
"Simulated_AASI_South_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0

"LAO_Hoabinhian:Average",
"fit": 3.2591,
"Onge_Averaged": 95,
"RUS_MA1_Averaged": 5,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 0,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0,
"Simulated_AASI_South_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 0,

"LAO_LN_BA:Average",
"fit": 2.7125,
"Malaysia_LN_Averaged": 85.83,
"VNM_N_all_Averaged": 14.17,
"Onge_Averaged": 0,
"RUS_MA1_Averaged": 0,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0,
"Simulated_AASI_South_by_DMXX_Averaged": 0,

Thambi

07-24-2019, 05:27 AM

..

bro just realized the bronze age components work really well. I modeled individual burmese, cambodian, and thai samples and averages.

So one of the burmese samples has very low SA. Two samples in thai average seem chinese shifted and similarly one sample in cambodian average. They have high Vietnamese BA pull at 75%, indicating southern chinese affinity.

But average for burmese and thais seem to be roughly the same if we disregard some atypical samples. Cambodians even the non chinese ones seem very low on SA influence.

Burmese samples = 13%, 12%, and 4% South asian pull respectively.
Cambodian = two samples get 3% and 5% while one sample is 0% south asian
Thai = range from 0% to 16% South asian.
Thailand Iron age sample(only Iron age sample on the database from SE asia) is 0% south asian so all the indic influence came after that.

https://i.imgur.com/tTE351B.png

Maguzanci

03-13-2020, 05:16 PM

Estimating the West Eurasian, AASI in the four most South Asian-shifted Balinese samples, comparing it with the average Malay sample.

Using TKM Gonur_BA1 to gauge the Caucasoid amount but it might hide slight AASI as well.

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041159",
"fit": 2.0327,
"MYS_LN": 60.83,
"Dusun": 32.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 4.17,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 2.5,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041162",
"fit": 2.4448,
"MYS_LN": 65,
"Dusun": 30.83,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 3.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 0.83,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 1.6874,
"MYS_LN": 45.83,
"Dusun": 43.33,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 5.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 5,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041153",
"fit": 2.4022,
"MYS_LN": 65,
"Dusun": 28.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 3.33,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 3.33,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041168",
"fit": 2.5314,
"MYS_LN": 55.83,
"Dusun": 36.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 5,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 2.5,

These runs use Makrani, which is a modern group to estimate the amount of Caucasoid admixture along with Simulated AASI.

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041159",
"fit": 2.0111,
"MYS_LN": 60.83,
"Dusun": 32.5,
"Makrani": 3.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 3.33,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041162",
"fit": 2.4469,
"MYS_LN": 65,
"Dusun": 30.83,
"Makrani": 4.17,
"Simulated_AASI": 0,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 1.6983,
"MYS_LN": 45,
"Dusun": 44.17,
"Makrani": 6.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 4.17,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041153",
"fit": 2.4392,
"MYS_LN": 65,
"Dusun": 28.33,
"Makrani": 3.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 3.33,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041168",
"fit": 2.5984,
"MYS_LN": 56.67,
"Dusun": 36.67,
"Simulated_AASI": 4.17,
"Makrani": 2.5,

Kerala Nair and Potohar Rajput are utilized as proxies to represent South Indian and North Indian ancestries. It seems overall the four Balinese individuals and the average Malay sample incline more towards South Indian than North Indian.

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041159",
"fit": 2.0816,
"MYS_LN": 62.5,
"Dusun": 31.67,
"Kerala_Nair": 5,
"Potohar_Rajput": 0.83,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041162",
"fit": 2.4676,
"MYS_LN": 64.17,
"Dusun": 30.83,
"Kerala_Nair": 4.17,
"Potohar_Rajput": 0.83,

"sample": "Malay:Average",
"fit": 1.7072,
"MYS_LN": 46.67,
"Dusun": 43.33,
"Kerala_Nair": 6.67,
"Potohar_Rajput": 3.33,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041153",
"fit": 2.4167,
"MYS_LN": 66.67,
"Dusun": 27.5,
"Kerala_Nair": 4.17,
"Potohar_Rajput": 1.67,

"sample": "Custom:Indonesian_BaliGRC10041168",
"fit": 2.6885,
"MYS_LN": 59.17,
"Dusun": 35,
"Kerala_Nair": 4.17,
"Potohar_Rajput": 1.67,

SharpFork

03-13-2020, 05:27 PM

What's MYS_LN? I mean the scientific name of the population.

Maguzanci

03-13-2020, 05:29 PM

What's MYS_LN? I mean the scientific name of the population.

I am assuming its Malaysia_Late Neolithic which is possibly a Negrito-like population

SharpFork

03-13-2020, 05:58 PM

I am assuming its Malaysia_Late Neolithic which is possibly a Negrito-like population
What's the relation between Papuans, Negritos, Onges and AASI?

Nomansman

03-13-2020, 06:04 PM

There are malays with higher aasi than 6% and some of the cambodians get higher aasi as well(but those would be khmer cambodians).

I dont think the south asian is just from more modern day indians, but also ancient indians. Even more south indian alike samples were found in Laos, but with far lower west eurasian and higher negrito admix