View Full Version : The difference between north and south Pashtuns
Borealis
06-10-2019, 08:06 PM
Due to geography and exotic looks, many people would assume that northern Pashtuns are more distant from other south asians compared to their southern counterparts. However, I will demonstrate that the opposite is actually true by comparing them to Iranians and Kalash, a highly inbred and small Indo-Aryan tribe living in northern Pakistan. The northern ones have been bolded:
"sample": "Pashtun-Pashtun2_22Af",
"fit": 1.9978,
"Kalash": 70.83,
"Iranian_Persian": 29.17,
"sample": "Pashtun-Pashtun2_8Af",
"fit": 1.9986,
"Kalash": 72.5,
"Iranian_Persian": 27.5,
"sample": "Yusufzai:Average",
"fit": 2.1179,
"Kalash": 95.83,
"Iranian_Persian": 4.17,
"sample": "Pashtun:HGDP00259",
"fit": 1.6247,
"Kalash": 91.67,
"Iranian_Persian": 8.33,
Clearly we can see that the northern ones lean overwhelmingly to Kalash while the western ones have a strong Iranian shift. Not to mention, the southern ones appear to be closer to Tajiks while the northern ones are closer to Indic speakers:
http://i68.tinypic.com/349b28x.jpg
Of course this does not represent all the diversity of Pashtuns, these are just the extreme ends. Many fall in between, others are Tajik like.
Borealis
06-11-2019, 10:34 PM
bump
Thambi
06-11-2019, 10:47 PM
yeah the 259 pashtun sample seems to be the dead average for pashtuns according to davidski and it makes sense that that its a northern sample since thats where most pasthuns reside. As compared to the south which is more sparsely populated.
btw yusufzai is pakistani pashtun average right?
Borealis
06-11-2019, 10:58 PM
yeah the 259 pashtun sample seems to be the dead average for pashtuns according to davidski and it makes sense that that its a northern sample since thats where most pasthuns reside. As compared to the south which is more sparsely populated.
btw yusufzai is pakistani pashtun average right?
they are a tribe inhabiting the Swat valley. I don't know if they are a good representation of all pakistani pashtuns. I would guess they're more AASI shifted than average.
@Thambi, can you model Pashtuns in the same way as you did the Indians - Iran Neo, BA Steppe and ASI. You can also add a Mongoloid group.
Borealis
06-11-2019, 11:27 PM
They need Barcin/ANF as well they have a good amount
Thambi
06-11-2019, 11:50 PM
@Thambi, can you model Pashtuns in the same way as you did the Indians - Iran Neo, BA Steppe and ASI. You can also add a Mongoloid group.
"Custom:AGUser_Mingle", (pakistani pashtun)
"fit": 2.8032,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 30.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10.83,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0.83
"Pashtun:surbakhun_AGUser", (Afghan Pashtun)
"fit": 2.552,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 57.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 27.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 5.83,
"Han": 5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 4.17
"Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser", (Tajik-Pashtun from afghanistan)
"fit": 2.324,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 52.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 7.5,
"Han": 4.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
Afghan pashtun samples (they tend to score some anatolian_barcin but not much. ASI quite low and decent han/mongoloid)
"Pashtun: Pashtun2_20Af",
"fit": 2.1261,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 50.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 31.67,
"Han": 7.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 7.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"Pashtun: Pashtun2_22Af",
"fit": 2.1603,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 50,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 33.33,
"Simulated_AASI": 8.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 4.17,
"Han": 4.17,
"Pashtun: Pashtun2_8Af",
"fit": 2.2937,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 51.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35,
"Simulated_AASI": 7.5,
"Han": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
Pakistani pashtun samples (ASI higher. iirc other than the hgdp00259 sample, the others seem quite atypical for pashtuns)
"Pashtun:HGDP00259", (closest to pashtun average according to davidski)
"fit": 2.0509,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 30.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 10,
"Han": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0
"Pashtun:HGDP00247",
"fit": 3.5834,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 53.33,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 25.83,
"Simulated_AASI": 18.33,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0.83,
"Pashtun:HGDP00248",
"fit": 3.2349,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 55.83,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 24.17,
"Simulated_AASI": 19.17,
"Han": 0.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0
"Pashtun:HGDP00264",
"fit": 2.044,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 51.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 27.5,
"Simulated_AASI": 19.17,
"Han": 1.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0
Impaler
06-11-2019, 11:55 PM
Tarkalani and Kohistani are from North? Are they Iranic influenced?
Borealis
06-11-2019, 11:56 PM
Pashtuns and kalash can be modeled with extremely low fits if the correct groups are used, I can’t remember what they are at the top of my head. @thambi try using northwestern ASI
Great! I know Rukha (Registan on TA), he got a lot of Steppe. I'd also like to see Tajikistan Tajiks (not Pamiris, but the dominant Persian-speaking group of Western TJ) and Uzbeks.
Borealis
06-12-2019, 12:08 AM
Great! I know Rukha (Registan on TA), he got a lot of Steppe. I'd also like to see Tajikistan Tajiks (not Pamiris, but the dominant Persian-speaking group of Western TJ) and Uzbeks.
I will get back to this soon hold on
Thambi
06-12-2019, 12:09 AM
Tarkalani and Kohistani are from North? Are they Iranic influenced?
Pashtuns and kalash can be modeled with extremely low fits if the correct groups are used, I can’t remember what they are at the top of my head. @thambi try using northwestern ASI
Impaler kohistanis seem to be getting around 16% AASI similar to burushos. Kohistanis are dardic speakers, so they're indo aryan. same with kalash and burusho people. I think most people in northern paksitan are indo aryan groups except for major ones like pashtuns and baltis (tibetan) i think. I could be wrong others can confirm
Disaffection bro i used AASI NW and mongola. fits seem to have improved. you might have put it with no default maybe to get lower fits. I remember zero default is not recommended anymore so thats why im not doing it and if we do use it, its for ancient samples it seems.
https://i.imgur.com/znXy20j.png
Thambi
06-12-2019, 12:33 AM
Great! I know Rukha (Registan on TA), he got a lot of Steppe. I'd also like to see Tajikistan Tajiks (not Pamiris, but the dominant Persian-speaking group of Western TJ) and Uzbeks.
here you go bro. I added all four tajik averages available (Ishkashim, Rushan, Shugnan, Yagnobi) and Uzbeks. I used AASI NW since that seems the best proxy for AASI in this region. I added rors, jats from india, and pakistani pashtun (mingle) and afghan pashtun (rukha) to compare again.
Rushans have the highest steppe at 57%. The other tajik groups are in mid 40% so they score the highest steppe. Rors have similar steppe as other tajik group like ishkashim and higher steppe than pashtuns.
https://i.imgur.com/6XnSLyH.png
"sample": "Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.5457,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 49.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 32.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 4.17,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"sample": "Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 2.0356,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 7.5,
"Mongola": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 3.33,
"sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 2.4366,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 17.5,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Ror:Average",
"fit": 2.249,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 35,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 16.67,
"Mongola": 2.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Tajik_Ishkashim:Average",
"fit": 1.915,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 40.83,
"Mongola": 7.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 2.1364,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 56.67,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 34.17,
"Mongola": 5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0.83,
"sample": "Tajik_Shugnan:Average",
"fit": 1.7234,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 49.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 38.33,
"Mongola": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 1.67,
"sample": "Tajik_Yagnobi:Average",
"fit": 2.064,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 47.5,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 41.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 6.67,
"Mongola": 4.17,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0,
"sample": "Tarkalani:Average",
"fit": 2.0187,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 13.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"sample": "Uzbek:Average",
"fit": 2.4831,
"Mongola": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
here you go bro. I added all four tajik averages available (Ishkashim, Rushan, Shugnan, Yagnobi) and Uzbeks. I used AASI NW since that seems the best proxy for AASI in this region. I added rors, jats from india, and pakistani pashtun (mingle) and afghan pashtun (rukha) to compare again.
Rushans have the highest steppe at 57%. The other tajik groups are in mid 40% so they score the highest steppe. Rors have similar steppe as other tajik group like ishkashim and higher steppe than pashtuns.
https://i.imgur.com/6XnSLyH.png
Thanks but those are Badakhshanis/Pamiris, not proper Tajiks (Sughd, Khatlon, Dushanbe, etc.). Surprisingly Uzbeks are 1/3 Sintashta.
Borealis
06-12-2019, 12:45 AM
here you go bro. I added all four tajik averages available (Ishkashim, Rushan, Shugnan, Yagnobi) and Uzbeks. I used AASI NW since that seems the best proxy for AASI in this region. I added rors, jats from india, and pakistani pashtun (mingle) and afghan pashtun (rukha) to compare again.
Rushans have the highest steppe at 57%. The other tajik groups are in mid 40% so they score the highest steppe. Rors have similar steppe as other tajik group like ishkashim and higher steppe than pashtuns.
https://i.imgur.com/6XnSLyH.png
"sample": "Custom:AGUser_Mingle",
"fit": 2.5457,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 49.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 32.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 10.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 4.17,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"sample": "Pashtun:Rukha_AGUser",
"fit": 2.0356,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 47.5,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 7.5,
"Mongola": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 3.33,
"sample": "Punjabi_Jat:Average",
"fit": 2.4366,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 35,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 17.5,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Ror:Average",
"fit": 2.249,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 35,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 16.67,
"Mongola": 2.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Tajik_Ishkashim:Average",
"fit": 1.915,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 40.83,
"Mongola": 7.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 5.83,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
"sample": "Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 2.1364,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 56.67,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 34.17,
"Mongola": 5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 3.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0.83,
"sample": "Tajik_Shugnan:Average",
"fit": 1.7234,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 49.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 38.33,
"Mongola": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 1.67,
"sample": "Tajik_Yagnobi:Average",
"fit": 2.064,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 47.5,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 41.67,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 6.67,
"Mongola": 4.17,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 0,
"sample": "Tarkalani:Average",
"fit": 2.0187,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 13.33,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 5,
"Mongola": 3.33,
"sample": "Uzbek:Average",
"fit": 2.4831,
"Mongola": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
This steppe is inflated, Rushans are not 57%. Closer to 45%. The thing you cant forget about all these central/south asians is they have a lot of Siberian ancestry which makes steppe inflated. And it seems all the Tajiks on nMonte are Pamiris for now.
"sample": "Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 0.801,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 43.33,
"Han": 7.5,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 3.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 1.67,
However, Turkmenistan_IA which is very Tajik like was about 55% steppe. Crazy.
Rors have similar steppe as other tajik group like ishkashim and higher steppe than pashtuns.
...
"sample": "Ror:Average",
"fit": 2.249,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45.83,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 35,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 16.67,
"Mongola": 2.5,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 0,
,
I've googled Haryana, this boxer Vijender Singh is from Haryana. He looks very West Asian for a South Asian.
https://assets.rappler.com/612F469A6EA84F6BAE882D2B94A4B421/img/89E82E08C76248B58230A8398A55F6E9/boxing-vijender-singh-.jpg
Borealis
06-12-2019, 12:52 AM
I've googled Haryana, this boxer Vijender Singh is from Haryana. He looks very West Asian for a South Asian.
https://assets.rappler.com/612F469A6EA84F6BAE882D2B94A4B421/img/89E82E08C76248B58230A8398A55F6E9/boxing-vijender-singh-.jpg
I dont think so at all. He looks really indian.
I dont think so at all. He looks really indian.
Maybe his phenotype is not uncommon among Northern Indian jatts or other higher castes. I wouldn't know.
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5c3523c91d00007a0332b5ae.jpeg?ops=scalefit_630_nou pscale
Thambi
06-12-2019, 12:58 AM
Maybe his phenotype is not uncommon among Northern Indian jatts or other higher castes. I wouldn't know.
https://img.huffingtonpost.com/asset/5c3523c91d00007a0332b5ae.jpeg?ops=scalefit_630_nou pscale
this is another guy. He's a Ror guy from haryana, neeraj chopra. He looks like a typical northern indian. Haryana folks are examples that phenotype doesnt equal genotype lol. they look quite south asian despite being so steppe influenced
https://celebrityxyz.com/i/p/2.jpg
Borealis
06-12-2019, 01:05 AM
BTW Thambi, don't use SIS1. It is not relevant to these groups.
Thambi
06-12-2019, 01:11 AM
BTW Thambi, don't use SIS1. It is not relevant to these groups.
yeah i figured. it works for pashtuns and northern pakis pretty well though. just not central asians. its better to use gonur, dzarkutan, parkhai, etc i think. i was too lazy and was just showing it in a cline. the fits are still decent though. all below 2.5
Truth Preacher
06-12-2019, 01:32 AM
this is another guy. He's a Ror guy from haryana, neeraj chopra. He looks like a typical northern indian. Haryana folks are examples that phenotype doesnt equal genotype lol. they look quite south asian despite being so steppe influenced
https://celebrityxyz.com/i/p/2.jpg
Yeah even lighter Haryanvis like Rahul choudhary look very Indid
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcSuJRP_hhevLxXow0lTOUzXVrqEWhk w16cAIDYcxxzbt8R43jQ4
Purohit ji
06-12-2019, 01:33 AM
this is another guy. He's a Ror guy from haryana, neeraj chopra. He looks like a typical northern indian. Haryana folks are examples that phenotype doesnt equal genotype lol. they look quite south asian despite being so steppe influenced
https://celebrityxyz.com/i/p/2.jpg
Their difference with other north indians is less because they also have the same genes just in less amount. But compared to groups with no steppe the difference in pheno is obvious
Deepak lather haryana weightlifter
https://images.indianexpress.com/2018/04/deepak-ap-m.jpg
Thambi
06-12-2019, 02:28 AM
This steppe is inflated, Rushans are not 57%. Closer to 45%. The thing you cant forget about all these central/south asians is they have a lot of Siberian ancestry which makes steppe inflated. And it seems all the Tajiks on nMonte are Pamiris for now.
"sample": "Tajik_Rushan:Average",
"fit": 0.801,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 44.17,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 43.33,
"Han": 7.5,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 3.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 1.67,
However, Turkmenistan_IA which is very Tajik like was about 55% steppe. Crazy.
bro did you use '0' for penalty instead of '0.001'? cause it does over fitting when you use zero penalty.
mongola works better over han since east eurasian in central asia came from northern china/mongolia region.. Han average includes samples from southern china as well. also yeah gonur and dzarkutan give better fits for central asians
also sibeian ancestry either came from steppe or mongols so wouldnt it make sense just to use those rather than adding west siberian? plus its a much older sample which mixed into steppe anyways.
"Tajik_Rushan:Average", (penalty = 0)
"fit": 0.6632,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 42.5,
"Mongola": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 1.67,
"Tajik_Rushan:Average", (penalty = 0.001)
"fit": 1.2885,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 47.5,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 41.67,
"Mongola": 5.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 3.33,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 1.67,
Borealis
06-12-2019, 02:35 AM
bro did you use '0' for penalty instead of '0.001'? cause it does over fitting when you use zero penalty.
mongola works better over han since east eurasian in central asia came from northern china/mongolia region.. Han average includes samples from southern china as well. also yeah gonur and dzarkutan give better fits for central asians
also sibeian ancestry either came from steppe or mongols so wouldnt it make sense just to use those rather than adding west siberian? plus its a much older sample which mixed into steppe anyways.
"Tajik_Rushan:Average", (penalty = 0)
"fit": 0.6632,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 45,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 42.5,
"Mongola": 8.33,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 1.67,
"Tajik_Rushan:Average", (penalty = 0.001)
"fit": 1.2885,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 47.5,
"UZB_Dzharkutan1_BA": 41.67,
"Mongola": 5.83,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 3.33,
"RUS_West_Siberia_N": 1.67,
There were different waves of ANE ancestry, the oldest and purest came before Sintashta. And using penalty will change it slightly but not by a massive amount as your run shows. Also, use 25% filter so theres not huge variations.
NPKTO
06-12-2019, 02:54 AM
this is another guy. He's a Ror guy from haryana, neeraj chopra. He looks like a typical northern indian. Haryana folks are examples that phenotype doesnt equal genotype lol. they look quite south asian despite being so steppe influenced
Steppe phenotype got burned due to intense heat of Ganges and Indus lol. Only isolated groups in Northern Pakistan preserved Steppe phenotype better (that's because of isolation).
Purohit ji
06-12-2019, 03:53 AM
Steppe phenotype got burned due to intense heat of Ganges and Indus lol. Only isolated groups in Northern Pakistan preserved Steppe phenotype better (that's because of isolation).
I think it's because they also got high asi aswell that counter steppe genes
NPKTO
06-12-2019, 03:58 AM
I think it's because they also got high asi aswell that counter steppe genes
Yeah agree bro
"sample": "Uzbek:Average",
"fit": 2.4831,
"Mongola": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
Please do this for Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. How much Mongola are they? What is Mongola to begin with? Chinese Mongols, not from Mongolia?
I'm still waiting for an answer :)
"sample": "Uzbek:Average",
"fit": 2.4831,
"Mongola": 36.67,
"RUS_Sintashta_MLBA": 34.17,
"IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA1": 24.17,
"Anatolia_Barcin_N": 2.5,
"Simulated_AASI_NW_by_DMXX": 2.5,
Please do this for Kazakhs and Kyrgyz. How much Mongola are they? What is Mongola to begin with? Chinese Mongols, not from Mongolia?
Powered by vBulletin® Version 4.2.3 Copyright © 2025 vBulletin Solutions, Inc. All rights reserved.