Illyrian haplogroup...

[Instinct]

:venus:

[Pjeter Pan]

:venus:
Why can't women be that hot and curvy anymore

[Insuperable]

The truth is it is R1b-L23.

[Guapo]

The truth is it is R1b-L23.

No L2, Archon is teh reall illyrian, rest are fakes.

[dralos]

So the Albanians that have that ydna are Slavs? There's a good chance you have it too. BTW why haven't you taken 23andme yet?
they probably have slavic ancestry but they are very very few
bcs of money i dont work bcs i'm studying and i won't get money for that bcs my parents say that i'm nuts i did ask though

[Guapo]

my parents say that i'm nuts

We all agree

[Insuperable]

No L2, Archon is teh reall illyrian, rest are fakes.

Agreed. Anyway J2, I2, L2... It is teh same shit, just a different letter.

[Pjeter Pan]

No L2, Archon is teh reall illyrian, rest are fakes.
I was gonna say that :heh:

[dralos]

We all agree
they say you're a crackhead fag

[ChocolateFace]

There were several Illyrian haplogroups.

[Drawing-slim]

Your dealing with something extremely hard to bring to light. What we can say though with most certainty is that markers carried by the Gheg Albanian highlanders today are derived from the Illyrians be they what they may. You would need a lot of resources and have to undertake a Coon-like expedition to the mountains to take genetic samples and accompanying each one corresponding clan histories and cross checkings to even begin to produce definitive theories. The Ghegs though are an ideal people for such an undertaking I believe for the same reasons they were for an anthropological field study, their isolation and uniqueness.

Ancient Greek loan words should be a lot more than they are in Albanian. In fact northern Albania would have been an ideal place to preserve Hellenism.

I agree with this. It would be interesting to see.
According to Coon though in the mountains of gehgnia not a single soul lived there prior 2000-2500. So Illyrians came from all directions finding refuge in the Rocky Mountains of today ghegnia region.

[Mucius Scaevola]

Proto-Illyrians were probably R1b, they were invaders which came from central Europe in 12th century BC.

Proto-Illyrians assimiletted some native naolitic people in the Balkans (E-V13 and J2b).

E-V13 was not real Illyrian haplogroup, E-V13 was Pelasgian haplogruop, but some Pelqasgians are assimilatted by Illyrians R1b invaders from north, also most of the Pelasgians were helenized by proto-Greeks.

[CommonSense]

R1b was Thraco-Illyrian. The original, pre-Indoeuropean, Balkan people were E-V13 and J2b.

[HELLBANIAN]

R1b was Thraco-Illyrian. The original, pre-Indoeuropean, Balkan people were E-V13 and J2b.

J2b2 L283 was most likely IE.

[Pubiczar]

R1b was Thraco-Illyrian. The original, pre-Indoeuropean, Balkan people were E-V13 and J2b.

There is no evidence for that...
In fact if you look at y-full tree and the DNA projects of FTDNA, you will find that some important subclades of E-V13, e-cts9320 for example, are so widespread in Europe and have MRCA of only around 2800 ybp.
No Balkan group could have carried it all around Europe, but this suggests a spread from Central Europe and some possible cultures in relation with it, like Urnfield culture, Hallstatt culture, La Tene culture...
Don't forget that we still don't have bronze age E-V13 sample from the Balkans but we have J2a from Greece and J2b and R1b from bronze age Dalmatia.
We do have a Balkan iron age e-m78 sample from a Thracian though.
Of course, some older branches of E-V13 could have been present in the Balkans during bronze age but most of it have came during iron age I think.

[CommonSense]

There is no evidence for that...
In fact if you look at y-full tree and the DNA projects of FTDNA, you will find that some important subclades of E-V13, e-cts9320 for example, are so widespread in Europe and have MRCA of only around 2800 ybp.
No Balkan group could have carried it all around Europe, but this suggests a spread from Central Europe and some possible cultures in relation with it, like Urnfield culture, Hallstatt culture, La Tene culture...
Don't forget that we still don't have bronze age E-V13 sample from the Balkans but we have J2a from Greece and J2b and R1b from bronze age Dalmatia.
We do have a Balkan iron age e-m78 sample from a Thracian though.
Of course, some older branches of E-V13 could have been present in the Balkans during bronze age but most of it have came during iron age I think.

E-V13 spread from the Middle East and West Asia through the Balkans and then across Europe as the various people continued to migrate. R1a and R1b were the haplogroups of the steppe people who spread the Indo-European languages. Of course they probably already assimilated some other haplogroups, including, E-V13 before spreading across Eurasia, but those two were definitely predominant.

[CommonSense]

What I'm trying to say is, yes it's possible that the Illyrians and Thracians had some E-V13 carriers among them, but that haplogroup was already concentrated here in large amounts because this peninsula was the starting point of it's spread across Europe and beyond. Basically it's native here, while R1a and R1b are native to the steppes only.

[Livin]

What we don't know about Albanians is where proto-albanian language had spoken.

If thraco-illyrians brought the language then r1b its probably the main haplo.

As other users said, Ev13 and J2b are kinda neolithic haplos and cannot connected with steppe.

[CommonSense]

You are wrong.
E-V13 didn't spread from the Middle East, that was it's parent e-m78.
The E-V13 mutation has occurred in Europe most probably where is most prominent.
Outside of Europe is miniscule.
E-M78 has indeed entered Europe from the Balkans during Neolithic.
But how long was here and did it survive the later invasions of nomadic people?
As I said, there is not any bronze age samples of E-V13 from the Balkans.
Most probably e-m78 didn't survive in the Balkans like the other Neolithic lineages but probably came later in the form of some Indo-European population.

Alright. What haplogroups do you think were dominant here before the arrival of Indo-Europeans? J2b? G2?

[Pubiczar]

Alright. What haplogroups do you think were dominant here before the arrival of Indo-Europeans? J2b? G2?

G2, I2, T, E-M78, E-V22...
What I am trying to explain to you is that most of the modern carriers of E-V13 in the Balkans are not descending from the pre Indo-European people in the Balkans carrying E-M78 haplogroup but are descendants of a Neolithic population which survived in Central Europe and which was assimilated by the Indo-Europeans.
That's where the oldest branches of E-V13 are found

[Tauromachos]

What we don't know about Albanians is where proto-albanian language had spoken.

If thraco-illyrians brought the language then r1b its probably the main haplo.

Not only this but we also don't know since when it was spoken or existed in the regions of today

Ancient Epiros for example was Greek speaking



As other users said, Ev13 and J2b are kinda neolithic haplos and cannot connected with steppe.

Exactly

[Kelmendasi]

There is no evidence for that...
In fact if you look at y-full tree and the DNA projects of FTDNA, you will find that some important subclades of E-V13, e-cts9320 for example, are so widespread in Europe and have MRCA of only around 2800 ybp.
No Balkan group could have carried it all around Europe, but this suggests a spread from Central Europe and some possible cultures in relation with it, like Urnfield culture, Hallstatt culture, La Tene culture...
Don't forget that we still don't have bronze age E-V13 sample from the Balkans but we have J2a from Greece and J2b and R1b from bronze age Dalmatia.
We do have a Balkan iron age e-m78 sample from a Thracian though.
Of course, some older branches of E-V13 could have been present in the Balkans during bronze age but most of it have came during iron age I think.
Thing is E-V13 reaches it’s highest diversity in the Balkans, specifically the area between Montenegro and north Albania, suggesting expansion in that region. In my opinion, E-V13 had migrated out of the Balkans where it got Indo-Europeanised and then expanded all over Europe and certain areas of Asia again as a back migration. The E-M78 sample from Thrace is believed to be V13, it’s just that V13 wasn’t tested iirc. Also L618 was found in Neolithic Dalmatia and L618 is the father clade of V13. Still though even if V13 was spread into the Balkans with IE people’s then Illyrians and Thracians would still of had carried it.

[Kelmendasi]

Not only this but we also don't know since when it was spoken or existed in the regions of today

Ancient Epiros for example was Greek speaking



Exactly
Im sure that we know it was spoken during the Roman period. What area are you talking about when you mention Epiros?

[Kelmendasi]

G2, I2, T, E-M78, E-V22...
What I am trying to explain to you is that most of the modern carriers of E-V13 in the Balkans are not descending from the pre Indo-European people in the Balkans carrying E-M78 haplogroup but are descendants of a Neolithic population which survived in Central Europe and which was assimilated by the Indo-Europeans.
That's where the oldest branches of E-V13 are found
I doubt E-V22 would have been present and if it was it surely was in small amounts. I reckon E-V13 was present in the Neolithic population of the Balkans but perhaps it wasn’t that large in numbers.

[HELLBANIAN]

What I'm trying to say is, yes it's possible that the Illyrians and Thracians had some E-V13 carriers among them, but that haplogroup was already concentrated here in large amounts because this peninsula was the starting point of it's spread across Europe and beyond. Basically it's native here, while R1a and R1b are native to the steppes only.

Ilyrians and Thracians formed in the Balkans as populations. Ev13 has already been found of Thracians for example. They didn't just have some, obviously. Calling something native and the other one non native makes no sense at this point.

J2b2 L283 was found at a Bronze Age so most likely not Neolithic Balkan but came likely with IE invadors into Balkans.

[HELLBANIAN]

What we don't know about Albanians is where proto-albanian language had spoken.

If thraco-illyrians brought the language then r1b its probably the main haplo.

As other users said, Ev13 and J2b are kinda neolithic haplos and cannot connected with steppe.


Not only this but we also don't know since when it was spoken or existed in the regions of today

Ancient Epiros for example was Greek speaking



Exactly

We know it very well, actually. Only biased nationalists that pretend not to know. It was most certainly spoken in Northern Albania and plains of Kosovo.

[Leto]

guys I FOUND MY MERCH PALS OVER IN ALBANIAAAAAAAA AND KOSOVO FINALLY REAL MERCH IN BELGRADE

I was inspo by human cousins not real human ugly merch and then I found all my cousins with real fashion merch
Why are you spamming wildly again?

Stop it, get some rest :swl

[ANXIETY (ADEPT)]

r1a;)

[Onlyi2aIsEuropean]

r1a;)

No chance, r1a doesnt have any ancient history in south europe. V13 is more likely but not ruling out a few illyrians carrying i2a-din. i2a is the original european line that has been present in west/north and south europe for 20 thousand years. I am sure i2a people were assimilated by various tribes/cultures many times in central/south europe though dacians are more likely than illyrians

[Geni_kameni]

No chance, r1a doesnt have any ancient history in south europe. V13 is more likely but not ruling out a few illyrians carrying i2a-din. i2a is the original european line that has been present in west/north and south europe for 20 thousand years. I am sure i2a people were assimilated by various tribes/cultures many times in central/south europe though dacians are more likely than illyrians

He is sarcastic

[zebruh]

J-L283 has been in the adriatic region since at least 1600 BC. And the ancient sample is a younger offshoot not a basal or early basal of shoot

[Tongio]

J-L283 has been in the adriatic region since at least 1600 BC. And the ancient sample is a younger offshoot not a basal or early basal of shoot
Wich sample are you talking about?Oldest L283 around the west balkans we have is the east Bell beaker from panonia(serbia,mokrin) that is basal J2b-Z615*, pretty upstream basal clade, we have 2 living hungarians that are basal L283* too.

[Geni_kameni]

https://tinypic.host/i/NOYVS

[zebruh]

Wich sample are you talking about?Oldest L283 around the west balkans we have is the east Bell beaker from panonia(serbia,mokrin) that is basal J2b-Z615*, pretty upstream basal clade, we have 2 living hungarians that are basal L283* too.id:I4331
3450 - 3650 ybp
https://www.yfull.com/tree/j-l283/

Other than that we basal sardinian samples that are earlier offshoots.

[Tongio]

id:I4331
3450 - 3650 ybp
https://www.yfull.com/tree/j-l283/

Other than that we basal sardinian samples that are earlier offshoots.
Bell beaker L283>>Z615* is relevant ancertor clade to almost all living L283 and is an entire millenia older than those dead end nuragic clades, what is your point?

[Wizz]

They were R1b and J2b at least

[zebruh]

Bell beaker L283>>Z615* is relevant ancertor clade to almost all living L283 and is an entire millenia older than those dead end nuragic clades, what is your point?They arent dead ends...
I am J-Z627. So they are J-Z627 in the dominican Republic.
And some in puerto rico which is my Ydna match.
Theres also other basal J-L283 on such as french colombian an albanian english an american a turkish tunisian ect. Just not as much as those with z615 mutation.

[Tongio]

They arent dead ends...
I am J-Z627. So they are J-Z627 in the dominican Republic.
And some in puerto rico which is my Ydna match.
Theres also other basal J-L283 on such as french colombian an albanian english an american a turkish tunisian ect. Just not as much as those with z615 mutation.

They are dead ends, almost no living L283 is downstrean of these nuragics clades, this is called an Island effect, meaning these guys mygrated there from tuscany and their relatives died out in the mainland.If you are the basal Z2509 this clade is not downstrean of any nuragic, but directly downstream of Z600 whose next ancestor is Z622(likely central european in origin).

[zebruh]

They are dead ends, almost no living L283 is downstrean of these nuragics clades, this is called an Island effect, meaning these guys mygrated there from tuscany and their relatives died out in the mainland.If you are the basal Z2509 this clade is not downstrean of any nuragic, but directly downstream of Z600 whose next ancestor is Z622(likely central european in origin).


It doesn't mean that their a dead end. It means they are bottlenecked. A dead end is when they make a stop and cannot continue. Meaning they dont have decendants.

Oh so thats why I was asked to test for it.
My test didnt have results for this marker something like that. I am going to get back on this to see what my results say on this.

[zebruh]

They are dead ends, almost no living L283 is downstrean of these nuragics clades, this is called an Island effect, meaning these guys mygrated there from tuscany and their relatives died out in the mainland.If you are the basal Z2509 this clade is not downstrean of any nuragic, but directly downstream of Z600 whose next ancestor is Z622(likely central european in origin).

These are also likely negative for that marker.
I am z600 or z627. Or both.
I am negative for j-z585
Theres also like more that didnt necessarily get their bam file done or get an extenstive y dna test. Its possible some did autosomal dna test on sites like 23andme but didnt care or understand the difference about haplogroup testing.


https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220622/0b0a982392474a7495906fe24a170df7.jpghttps://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20220622/e5c8238ea9df32440ed63404df1fa007.jpg

That marker is downstream of z622 actually.
Some sardinian samples are downstream of z600
Such as j-yp157
And j-yp71