Why doesn't 23andme test for Shepardic Jews?

[Richmondbread]

If you have Shepardic Jewish ancestry how would it manifest ?

I was looking on my family tree for the Ashkenazi Jew, and no luck. However, I did find someone who may be suspiciously Jewish. But not of the Ashkenazi variety. Their name is VIDAL- a common Jewish surname in Spain. He was born in Barcelona, Spain and moved with his wife to Zimbabwe before landing in Richmond, Virginia in the 19th Century. I found out that the Vidals actually were originally from France. A lot of Shepardic Jews went to Africa! This would all make sense to my 4% Jewish reading since he would be my 4th Great Grandparent- pretty close. However, it doesn't match up with Ashkenazi Jewish reading. I could be wrong about him being a Jew anyway. Does anyone know more about this?

[Cumansky]

Shepardic

[TheMaestro]

"No luck" lol, you would freak the shit out Richie finding out you have jews in your family :D

[TheMaestro]

Shepardic

Šepard

[Richmondbread]

I found out the Vidals are from France, but the ancestor was born in Barcelona . His parents were French Vidals. So maybe they weren't Jews after all.

[Lemgrant]

for example> https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?281227-23andme-results-of-North-West-African-Jews-(Haplogroups-Autosomal)

https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/north-african-jewish/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution

[Cumansky]

I found out the Vidals are from France, but the ancestor was born in Barcelona . His parents were French Vidals. So maybe they weren't Jews after all.

Lol, you just said they Jews 6 mins ago

[Bigsaul]

Sephardic Jews aren't genetically drifted to have specific dna unlike Ashkenazi Jews so they'll show up as a mix of Middle Eastern South European which is what they are basically.

[Richmondbread]

Lol, you just said they Jews 6 mins ago

I don't know for sure they were Jews. It is speculative. Their name was Vidal. They originate in France, went to Spain, and then later to Zimbabwe before coming to Virginia.

[Richmondbread]

for example> https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?281227-23andme-results-of-North-West-African-Jews-(Haplogroups-Autosomal)

https://www.myheritage.com/ethnicities/north-african-jewish/ethnicity-worldwide-distribution

These are my results on My Heritage

Europe
98.0%
North and West Europe
53.3%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
25.9%
Scandinavian
19.0%
North and West European
8.4%
East Europe
24.6%
Baltic
24.6%
South Europe
20.1%
Italian
13.8%
Greek and South Italian
6.3%
America
2.0%
Central and South America
2.0%
Mesoamerican and Andean
2.0%

[Damião de Góis]

Vidal is not a jewish surname. Surnames taken by jews in the middle ages don't make them jewish, lots of non-jewish people with that surname.

As for 23andme i suspect they would score mostly Ashkenazi. I think there's a sephardic forum member, maybe he will see this thread and answer.

[Smitty]

So this is on your maternal side? Could be the source. But I still think the Lithuanian or possibly German is the more likely candidate. Have you even traced back to your third greats on those lines?

[Richmondbread]

So this is on your maternal side? Could be the source. But I still think the Lithuanian or possibly German is the more likely candidate. Have you even traced back to your third greats on those lines?

Yes- my mother's side. But there again- Vidal is not necessarily a Jewish name, but it was a name taken by Jews- and the famous writer Gore Vidal admitted that his family is most likely Jewish .
On my father's side, I traced back to my 2nd GG on my German side- no Jews. The only questionable name is Meier- but that could also be surname from a previous marriage. And again, not all people with Jewish sounding names are Jews. A lot of Jews were required to take common surnames under Napoleon. The only bonafide Jew names are Levy, Cohen, and Shapiro. The Lithuaninan side all the way back to 18th Century on on branch- no Jews . Both sides mostly Catholic or Lutheran. Highly anti semitic, as well.

[Smitty]

Yes- my mother's side. But there again- Vidal is not necessarily a Jewish name, but it was a name taken by Jews- and the famous writer Gore Vidal admitted that his family is most likely Jewish .
On my father's side, I traced back to my 2nd GG on my German side- no Jews. The only questionable name is Meier- but that could also be surname from a previous marriage. And again, not all people with Jewish sounding names are Jews. A lot of Jews were required to take common surnames under Napoleon. The only bonafide Jew names are Levy, Cohen, and Shapiro. The Lithuaninan side all the way back to 18th Century on on branch- no Jews . Both sides mostly Catholic or Lutheran. Highly anti semitic, as well.

Your Ashkenazi is potentially as distant as a 3x great-grandparent, though. You'd have to go back at least that far (preferably farther) and on all your lines to rule it out genealogically. A non-paternity event is another possibility.

Have you looked on Family Search for your ancestral German towns? A lot of church records can be found there.

[Richmondbread]

Your Ashkenazi is potentially as distant as a 3x great-grandparent, though. You'd have to go back at least that far (preferably farther) and on all your lines to rule it out genealogically. A non-paternity event is another possibility.

Have you looked on Family Search for your ancestral German towns? A lot of church records can be found there.

LOL. they should have a new game called "spot the Jew".

[TheOldNorth]

I heard they were researching it

[Smitty]

LOL. they should have a new game called "spot the Jew".

Hey, it's interesting. It's got to be somewhere. It's too much to have been an error.

[Richmondbread]

Hey, it's interesting. It's got to be somewhere. It's too much to have been an error.

4% , though. And while many Jews had some Gentiles marry into them, it was extremely rare for Jews to marry outside their religion . They stuck to themselves. In some places it was even illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews. That is why it seems so strange to me.

[Smitty]

4% , though. And while many Jews had some Gentiles marry into them, it was extremely rare for Jews to marry outside their religion . They stuck to themselves. In some places it was even illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews. That is why it seems so strange to me.

Yeah, it would be an anomaly. But anomalies happen. And the farther back you go, the more ancestors you have, which increases the likelihood of something out of the ordinary.

[Richmondbread]

Yeah, it would be an anomaly. But anomalies happen. And the farther back you go, the more ancestors you have, which increases the likelihood of something out of the ordinary.

Well I found out my grandparents have several common ancestors in Colonial Virginia and are 6th cousins , once removed.

[Smitty]

Well I found out my grandparents have several common ancestors in Colonial Virginia and are 6th cousins , once removed.

I've been surprised at the amount of cousin marriage in my family too. Different times.

[Petalpusher]

You would score "West Asia and North Africa" if you had any sephardic ancestry, but it's clear you have something else than what you list in your ancestry looking at your breakdown.

[Richmondbread]

I've been surprised at the amount of cousin marriage in my family too. Different times.

In Colonial Virginia, it was common among the Aristocracy. More blood relations also meant more land holdings. There also weren't enough people to go around. I noticed the cousin marrying stopped after the 20th Century.

[Smitty]

In Colonial Virginia, it was common among the Aristocracy. More blood relations also meant more land holdings. There also weren't enough people to go around. I noticed the cousin marrying stopped after the 20th Century.

Mine is the opposite, lol. Frontier people and lowly peasants, probably marrying whoever they could find.

[Longbowman]

Sephardic* Jews score a little Ashkenazi, but they score a lot of MENA, which you don't have.

You are clearly 1/16 Ashkenazi, the only 'mystery' is which of your dad's great-grandparents is the Jew.

[Longbowman]

4% , though. And while many Jews had some Gentiles marry into them, it was extremely rare for Jews to marry outside their religion . They stuck to themselves. In some places it was even illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews. That is why it seems so strange to me.

literal horseshit, far less common for christians to marry into the minority than for a jew to convert to christianity and marry a gentile, as clearly happened in your family

[Kaspias]

Sephardic* Jews score a little Ashkenazi, but they score a lot of MENA, which you don't have.

You are clearly 1/16 Ashkenazi, the only 'mystery' is which of your dad's great-grandparents is the Jew.

How common is scoring East Eurasian among Jews? What is the range of the amount?

[Longbowman]

How common is scoring East Eurasian among Jews? What is the range of the amount?

on 23andme? 0.1% is not uncommon, any more is unusual

on gedmatch 1-2.5% is normal, for ashkies. less for other jews except some in iran.

[Kaspias]

on 23andme? 0.1% is not uncommon, any more is unusual

on gedmatch 1-2.5% is normal, for ashkies. less for other jews except some in iran.

Thoughts on this?

y-dna: Q-YP3924

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.31
2 West_Med 12.62
3 West_Asian 9.54
4 North_Atlantic 9.38
5 Baltic 8.81
6 East_Asian 6.63
7 Northeast_African 6.06
8 South_Asian 4.75
9 Red_Sea 3.97
10 Siberian 3.2
11 Oceanian 1.9
12 Amerindian 1.6
13 Sub-Saharan 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 12.35
2 East_Sicilian 14.77
3 Algerian_Jewish 15.49
4 Libyan_Jewish 15.81
5 Italian_Jewish 15.84
6 Central_Greek 15.89
7 Tunisian_Jewish 16.07
8 Sephardic_Jewish 16.1
9 South_Italian 16.26
10 West_Sicilian 17.12
11 Greek_Thessaly 17.48
12 Italian_Abruzzo 17.92
13 Cyprian 19.11
14 Lebanese_Muslim 19.31
15 Syrian 19.33
16 Jordanian 19.52
17 Turkish 20.57
18 Palestinian 20.71
19 Bedouin 22.11
20 Tuscan 22.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.4% Ashkenazi + 12.6% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 8.04
2 80.3% Ashkenazi + 19.7% Uygur @ 8.45
3 73.4% Libyan_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 8.5
4 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Malay @ 8.57
5 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Yizu @ 8.62
6 81.5% Ashkenazi + 18.5% Hazara @ 8.63
7 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Naxi @ 8.64
8 88.7% Ashkenazi + 11.3% Tu @ 8.65
9 90% Ashkenazi + 10% Cambodian @ 8.71
10 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Japanese @ 8.72
11 89% Ashkenazi + 11% Xibo @ 8.85
12 89.1% Ashkenazi + 10.9% Hezhen @ 8.86
13 80.5% Ashkenazi + 19.5% Aghan_Hazara @ 8.88
14 79.9% Ashkenazi + 20.1% Uzbeki @ 8.88
15 90.6% Ashkenazi + 9.4% Lahu @ 8.9
16 72.3% Libyan_Jewish + 27.7% Uzbeki @ 8.91
17 90.8% Ashkenazi + 9.2% Tujia @ 8.97
18 74.4% Algerian_Jewish + 25.6% Uygur @ 8.97
19 90.9% Ashkenazi + 9.1% Miaozu @ 8.99
20 73.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 9.06

[Longbowman]

Thoughts on this?

y-dna: Q-YP3924

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.31
2 West_Med 12.62
3 West_Asian 9.54
4 North_Atlantic 9.38
5 Baltic 8.81
6 East_Asian 6.63
7 Northeast_African 6.06
8 South_Asian 4.75
9 Red_Sea 3.97
10 Siberian 3.2
11 Oceanian 1.9
12 Amerindian 1.6
13 Sub-Saharan 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 12.35
2 East_Sicilian 14.77
3 Algerian_Jewish 15.49
4 Libyan_Jewish 15.81
5 Italian_Jewish 15.84
6 Central_Greek 15.89
7 Tunisian_Jewish 16.07
8 Sephardic_Jewish 16.1
9 South_Italian 16.26
10 West_Sicilian 17.12
11 Greek_Thessaly 17.48
12 Italian_Abruzzo 17.92
13 Cyprian 19.11
14 Lebanese_Muslim 19.31
15 Syrian 19.33
16 Jordanian 19.52
17 Turkish 20.57
18 Palestinian 20.71
19 Bedouin 22.11
20 Tuscan 22.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.4% Ashkenazi + 12.6% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 8.04
2 80.3% Ashkenazi + 19.7% Uygur @ 8.45
3 73.4% Libyan_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 8.5
4 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Malay @ 8.57
5 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Yizu @ 8.62
6 81.5% Ashkenazi + 18.5% Hazara @ 8.63
7 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Naxi @ 8.64
8 88.7% Ashkenazi + 11.3% Tu @ 8.65
9 90% Ashkenazi + 10% Cambodian @ 8.71
10 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Japanese @ 8.72
11 89% Ashkenazi + 11% Xibo @ 8.85
12 89.1% Ashkenazi + 10.9% Hezhen @ 8.86
13 80.5% Ashkenazi + 19.5% Aghan_Hazara @ 8.88
14 79.9% Ashkenazi + 20.1% Uzbeki @ 8.88
15 90.6% Ashkenazi + 9.4% Lahu @ 8.9
16 72.3% Libyan_Jewish + 27.7% Uzbeki @ 8.91
17 90.8% Ashkenazi + 9.2% Tujia @ 8.97
18 74.4% Algerian_Jewish + 25.6% Uygur @ 8.97
19 90.9% Ashkenazi + 9.1% Miaozu @ 8.99
20 73.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 9.06

clearly not fully jewish, my bro

[Richmondbread]

How about mine?

Population
SOUTH_BALTIC 16.62 Pct
EAST_EURO 13.48 Pct
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 25.12 Pct
ATLANTIC 19.33 Pct
WEST_MED 12.12 Pct
ASHKENAZI 3.38 Pct
EAST_MED 0.21 Pct
WEST_ASIAN 6.92 Pct
MIDDLE_EASTERN 1.81 Pct
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 1.00 Pct
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN -
WEST_AFRICAN -

[Pine]

Thoughts on this?

y-dna: Q-YP3924

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Med 31.31
2 West_Med 12.62
3 West_Asian 9.54
4 North_Atlantic 9.38
5 Baltic 8.81
6 East_Asian 6.63
7 Northeast_African 6.06
8 South_Asian 4.75
9 Red_Sea 3.97
10 Siberian 3.2
11 Oceanian 1.9
12 Amerindian 1.6
13 Sub-Saharan 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ashkenazi 12.35
2 East_Sicilian 14.77
3 Algerian_Jewish 15.49
4 Libyan_Jewish 15.81
5 Italian_Jewish 15.84
6 Central_Greek 15.89
7 Tunisian_Jewish 16.07
8 Sephardic_Jewish 16.1
9 South_Italian 16.26
10 West_Sicilian 17.12
11 Greek_Thessaly 17.48
12 Italian_Abruzzo 17.92
13 Cyprian 19.11
14 Lebanese_Muslim 19.31
15 Syrian 19.33
16 Jordanian 19.52
17 Turkish 20.57
18 Palestinian 20.71
19 Bedouin 22.11
20 Tuscan 22.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:



# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.4% Ashkenazi + 12.6% Tibeto-Burman_Burmese @ 8.04
2 80.3% Ashkenazi + 19.7% Uygur @ 8.45
3 73.4% Libyan_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 8.5
4 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Malay @ 8.57
5 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Yizu @ 8.62
6 81.5% Ashkenazi + 18.5% Hazara @ 8.63
7 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Naxi @ 8.64
8 88.7% Ashkenazi + 11.3% Tu @ 8.65
9 90% Ashkenazi + 10% Cambodian @ 8.71
10 89.5% Ashkenazi + 10.5% Japanese @ 8.72
11 89% Ashkenazi + 11% Xibo @ 8.85
12 89.1% Ashkenazi + 10.9% Hezhen @ 8.86
13 80.5% Ashkenazi + 19.5% Aghan_Hazara @ 8.88
14 79.9% Ashkenazi + 20.1% Uzbeki @ 8.88
15 90.6% Ashkenazi + 9.4% Lahu @ 8.9
16 72.3% Libyan_Jewish + 27.7% Uzbeki @ 8.91
17 90.8% Ashkenazi + 9.2% Tujia @ 8.97
18 74.4% Algerian_Jewish + 25.6% Uygur @ 8.97
19 90.9% Ashkenazi + 9.1% Miaozu @ 8.99
20 73.4% Tunisian_Jewish + 26.6% Uygur @ 9.06

This one is interesting. Ashkenazi doesn't disappear in mixed mode, yet the distance is barely reduced. This kinda result could've came about from a Turk mixing with middle easterner/greek islander or from a Roman cluster Jew mixing with a Turk. What are the J-Test results? Could be a mix more than 2 things though. The 4-way oracle would be helpful too.

[Smeagol]

4% , though. And while many Jews had some Gentiles marry into them, it was extremely rare for Jews to marry outside their religion . They stuck to themselves. In some places it was even illegal for Jews to marry non-Jews. That is why it seems so strange to me.

It wasn't that rare from the late 18th century onward for Jews to convert and marry Christians and there were no laws against converts marrying gentiles except in Nazi Germany and the countries it occupied + it's Axis allies except Japan.

[rurov0]

I think it should just come up as middle eastern or south american