Greece protest against austerity package turns violent

[Loki]

Greece protest against austerity package turns violent (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-13935400)

Police have fired tear gas in running battles with stone-throwing youths in Athens, where a 48-hour general strike is being held against a parliamentary vote on tough austerity measures.

Thousands of protesters gathered outside parliament in the capital where public transport ground to a halt.

PM George Papandreou has said that only his 28bn-euro (£25bn) austerity plan would get Greece back on its feet.

If the package is not approved, Greece could run out of money within weeks.

Without a new plan in place, the EU and International Monetary Fund say they will withhold 12bn euros of loans which Greece needs to repay debts due in mid-July.

The newly named IMF chief, Christine Lagarde, has urged Greek politicians to unite to avoid a debt default.

"If I have a message this evening about Greece, it is a call to the Greek opposition... to join in national unity with the party which is currently in power," she told France's TF1 television station. "The country's destiny is at stake."

'Declared war'

As thousands of peaceful demonstrators observed a night-time protest outside the Greek parliament on Syntagma Square, sporadic clashes continued nearby between black-hooded, rock-hurling youths and police firing tear gas.

Earlier, more than 5,000 police officers were deployed in the city centre to monitor what started off as a peaceful rally, but rapidly deteriorated into running skirmishes on the fringes of the main demonstration.

Hundreds of protesters - their faces covered by scarves or gas-masks - started throwing stones, debris and bottles in the square at police who retaliated with tear gas and stun grenades.

Two communications vans with mobile telecoms transmitters were daubed with graffiti condemning the media and banks before being set alight by protesters who had apparently mistaken them for satellite TV trucks.

As many as 20 police officers and four demonstrators were injured in the scuffles, police said, while a number of demonstrators were treated for breathing difficulties.

Some 18 people were detained by police, Reuters reported.

There were also skirmishes as trade unionists tried to persuade anarchists to leave the square, saying their violent protests were only harming the aims of the demonstrations, says the BBC's Jon Sopel in Athens.

Greece's general strike has halted most public services, banks are closed and hospitals are operating on skeleton staff.

Airports are shutting for hours at a time, with air traffic controllers walking out between 0800 and 1200 (0500-0900 GMT) and 1800 and 2200 (1500-1900 GMT).

A number of flights were cancelled at Athens international airport while trains, buses and ferries were also affected.

The capital's underground system was the only form of public transport working "to allow Athenians to join the planned protests in the capital", metro drivers said.

Protesters blockaded the port of Piraeus, near Athens, which links most Greek islands with the mainland.

"The situation that the workers are undergoing is tragic and we are near poverty levels," said Spyros Linardopoulos, a protester with the PAME union at the blockade.

"The government has declared war and to this war we will answer back with war."

The unions are angry that the government's austerity programme will impose taxes on those earning the minimum wage, following months of other cuts which have seen unemployment rise to more than 16%.

Polls suggest that between 70% and 80% of Greek people oppose the austerity plan.

"We know very well that these measures will be our tombstone," said bank worker Kali Patouna.

"They will have extreme consequences for workers and for everyone on all social levels."

'Flawed' plans

The austerity package and implementation law must be passed in separate votes on Wednesday and Thursday.

If the measures are passed, the next instalment of Greece's 110bn-euro bail-out will be released by the European Union and International Monetary Fund.

European officials will also start to finalise the details of a second bail-out - worth an estimated 120bn euros - designed to help Greece pay its debts until the end of 2014.

EU President Herman Van Rompuy said the impact of the Greek vote would be felt worldwide.

"The coming hours will be decisive, crucial for the Greek people, but also for the eurozone and the stability of the world economy," Mr Van Rompuy told the European parliament.

A Greek government defeat would send ripples of anxiety right across the eurozone, with Greece facing the prospect next month of becoming the first member state to default on its debts, says the BBC's Chris Morris in Athens.

Mr Papandreou has warned that failure to secure the new loans would mean that national coffers could be empty within days.

The recently-appointed Finance Minister Evangelos Venizelos acknowledged that the cuts were "unfair", but said they were absolutely necessary.

He called on MPs to back the measures, saying both the government and the opposition were "running out of time".

But the main opposition leader, Antonis Samaras of the New Democracy party, said the thinking behind the austerity package was flawed and that tax rates should be lowered rather than raised in order to stimulate the economy.

The outcome of the debate is uncertain. Mr Papandreou faces opposition from within the governing Panhellenic Socialist Movement (Pasok), with two MPs saying they may oppose the bill.

The party has a slim majority, with 155 seats out of 300 in parliament.

[BeerBaron]

Ah the austerity measures are finally pissing people off to the point of violence. Coming to a canadian city near you, thats what we get for subscribing to the lunacy of tax cuts to fix the deficit.

[European blood]

I think that Greece, Portugal and Ireland will default it is just a matter of time.

If they continue to squeeze the little people for much longer we might have a revolution in Greece.

[Magister Eckhart]

I know how they feel. No one is more devoted to the cult of order than I am and even I in recent weeks have begun to think these "Death to Society! Long live Anarchy!" types might be onto something.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Greece has been a corrupt, economically dysfunctional country for a long time. It lived high off of EU loans for a while, but now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Some of the austerity measures are long overdue measures necessary to a functioning economy, some not, the opposition leader is correct in his criticisms.

Christine Lagarde, the new IMF minister, like the previous corrupt pervert in charge of the IMF, is French, and French banks hold a lot of the debt which is owed by Greece. That's why the IMF is so eager for Greece to avoid default, they want to take $ from the US and other IMF donors and give it to Greece on the condition that Greece use this money to pay off their debts to French banks.

The best situation for Greece would be to default and leave the Euro, and also implement measure to reform the economy so that people can feel comfortable investing there without worrying that their investment will be stolen. Even China seems to offer better protections, basically giving a period of time (10 years or so) for the investment before they can try to steal it.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, I can't blame them for protesting against the proposed austerity measures since the measures would literally rape the Greek people. You can read about the proposed measures here (http://www.france24.com/en/20110629-greek-austerity-measures-explained-protests-imf-eu-bailout). Greece needs to redevelop its industry, start expanding its economy than cut budgets and shrink the economy which makes the economy worse.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Greece has been a corrupt, economically dysfunctional country for a long time. It lived high off of EU loans for a while, but now the chickens are coming home to roost.

Some of the austerity measures are long overdue measures necessary to a functioning economy, some not, the opposition leader is correct in his criticisms.

Christine Lagarde, the new IMF minister, like the previous corrupt pervert in charge of the IMF, is French, and French banks hold a lot of the debt which is owed by Greece. That's why the IMF is so eager for Greece to avoid default, they want to take $ from the US and other IMF donors and give it to Greece on the condition that Greece use this money to pay off their debts to French banks.

The best situation for Greece would be to default and leave the Euro, and also implement measure to reform the economy so that people can feel comfortable investing there without worrying that their investment will be stolen. Even China seems to offer better protections, basically giving a period of time (10 years or so) for the investment before they can try to steal it.

Actually it'd be better if European banks forgave Greek debt than demand repayment.

[BeerBaron]

Actually it'd be better if European banks forgave Greek debt than demand repayment.

Thats not gonna happen, without mountains of debt how would they enforce a monetary union?

[antonio]

Protesters around in-debt European countries are showing an amazing lack of common sense: if crisis has no negative consequences for the weakest, what the fuck is a crisis? Moreover, violent protesters are not to fix nothing, but worsen all. I dont believe in modern Democracy, but one things is for sure , Papandreu government is by far more trustworthy than Radical ones taking the streets...as Zapatero government is so at respect of Spanish homologues. Just with the aggravant Zapatero is a liar: two years ago he said that crisis had no consequences on weaker ones. Then I though what I expose at paragraph one.

[Cheesypie]

The Greeks need to stop making demands and be realistic.

[Rouxinol]

I only hear about protests (with violence and turmoil) in Greece. I think it's counterproductive too. Here in Portugal most of the people just want to tighten their belts in order to pass through this as fast as possible and a new Government which clearly stated during the campaign that it would take austerity measures even further than those signed up with the IMF/EU has been elected in June. I think there's something wrong about all this though, just yesterday Moody's downgraded the Portuguese sovereign debt and that of various Portuguese banks and corporations to "junk" despite all the measures that are planned to and are being enforced rising heavy criticism both from the Portuguese government, the IMF and the EU responsibles. I'm afraid those American rating agencies won't let us overcome this until they have managed to destroy the Euro and weaken the EU... All this at the expense of the people.

[European blood]

Protesters around in-debt European countries are showing an amazing lack of common sense: if crisis has no negative consequences for the weakest, what the fuck is a crisis? Moreover, violent protesters are not to fix nothing, but worsen all. I dont believe in modern Democracy, but one things is for sure , Papandreu government is by far more trustworthy than Radical ones taking the streets...as Zapatero government is so at respect of Spanish homologues. Just with the aggravant Zapatero is a liar: two years ago he said that crisis had no consequences on weaker ones. Then I though what I expose at paragraph one.

It is a bizarre world we are living in.

Even making many mistakes the agencies have a prominent place in this bizarre world.

The agencies are slow in reviewing positions and give excessive value to the past. They seem to only be able to anticipate well known public facts. Their grades went up when the weather is fine and down when the disaster has no solution.

The truth is that as an independent instrument able to prevent the debt crisis takes root and spread, agencies are a fiasco.

But even in a world so bizarre they can maintain the prestige and importance that they still lend.

If the U.S. were under attack by the extorsionist rating agencies all of them would have been gone by now.

And if anyone has doubts in this respect, they can consult the bright palm of "hits" they have in their repertoire.

In the midst of this brutish dictatorship of agencies there is an interesting fact to point out however:

Evil Greece, Portugal and Ireland are attacked, behold, our "hermanitos".

Spaniards were soon put on their toes saying that they are not Greece or Portugal.

In fact ... they are right, Greece, Portugal and Ireland are just "snacks".

Spain, Belgium and Italy are the main course ...


My mother always said:

"When there is no money until their dogs will pee on you."


This is a symptom of savage capitalism and globalization in which we live in.

The capitalist system exploits those who are economically weak.

With the theft of the countries riches and the labor force of workers.

Capitalism have an unethical way of assessing the human being by the number of things and the amount of money he has, instead of his inner worth, abilities and personal achievements.

Classifying the country, cities and companies as "Junk" is the same as classifying all its citizens as trash.

[antonio]

I only hear about protests (with violence and turmoil) in Greece. I think it's counterproductive too. Here in Portugal most of the people just want to tighten their belts in order to pass through this as fast as possible

Portuguese seems to be a wise country with no stupid rich complexes at their people. Maybe is the Salazarist legacy or maybe is something more deep and permanent. Someone would call it "conformism" or "docility", i prefer to think is just the only way to go for the most. Although seems that some out in the streets of other countries prefer to initiate a long but straight way to NorthKorea's way of living. :coffee:

[antonio]

Agencies are not the problem. Do you like more money to help short and mid term situation at countries like Spain? Just take it all from the black and white profits of bank or brick and mortar's billionaries. Then take your time to return them the white one. Dont they like it? Just remember them they earned it because there's a state, a people and a law let them securely building their indecent lucre for decades. And that's not Communism at all, let's call it NationalSocialism or early Spanish Phalangism. :D

[SwordoftheVistula]

Classifying the country, cities and companies as "Junk" is the same as classifying all its citizens as trash.

It means 'deadbeats', as in people who borrow money and then don't pay it back. In previous generations, this used to be considered a bad thing. However, with the economic situation all over the world as screwed up as it is, a default on debt or mass inflation is the least bad action for many or most countries. Still, it's understandable that lenders are reluctant to lend money to people who seem unable to pay it back.


I don't see what is so hard to figure out here:

Spending money gets you in debt

Spending lots of money gets in you more debt

Solution to being in debt: stop spending money!

The greater the likelihood that you won't pay back what you are borrowing, the higher the interest rate you will have to pay

[European blood]

It means 'deadbeats', as in people who borrow money and then don't pay it back. In previous generations, this used to be considered a bad thing. However, with the economic situation all over the world as screwed up as it is, a default on debt or mass inflation is the least bad action for many or most countries. Still, it's understandable that lenders are reluctant to lend money to people who seem unable to pay it back.


I don't see what is so hard to figure out here:

Spending money gets you in debt

Spending lots of money gets in you more debt

Solution to being in debt: stop spending money!

The greater the likelihood that you won't pay back what you are borrowing, the higher the interest rate you will have to pay

It is a vicious circle.

The higher the interest rate you have to pay the greater the likelihood of not paying it back.

The majority of banks lending money would have been bankrupt by now if the western governments didn't spend the tax payers money to save the banksters gambling on the american phony real estate market with all those mortgage frauds and counter derivatives market.

The difference between Greece, Ireland, Portugal and the UK or US is that the first ones can't print their own money to get them out of debt because of the Euro-zone ECB regulations.

Greece cannot inflate so they have no choice but to leave the Euro to enable them to inflate EVERYTHING , i.e. prices, and wages, that is the only way they will be able to STEAL from all of the bond holders and savers as they STEALTH default on their debt by means of high inflation which is the path that the UK and US are upon for a decade long inflation mega-trend.

The ONLY reason why they are being prevented from defaulting and leaving the euro-zone is because banks of other european countries are not strong enough to withstand such an event.

http://www.marketoracle.co.uk/images/2011/June/euro-zone-debt-crisis.gif

The people are paying for their own consumption mistakes, for their governemnt bailout mistakes, for the private sector mistakes, insurance companies mistakes, investment banks mistakes ...

http://pt.scribd.com/doc/34895662/Greece-and-the-IMF-Who-Exactly-is-Being-Saved

http://news.xinhuanet.com/english2010/world/2011-07/01/c_13959310.htm

[The Lawspeaker]

The Greeks need to stop making demands and be realistic.
It sounds a bit like telling a woman to lay down and allowing herself to be gang-raped. Because this is the financial version of a gang-rape. The maidens of Europe (the countries) were lured along with the promise of a better life (under a single currency and all - drinks and merriment all around) but ended up in a dark corner where they are being molested.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Why doesn't Greece just leave the Euro then? Remember, it was their government who falsified their financials to get into the Euro. It's Greece which is asking to be bailed out by these other countries, not the other way around.

[Aces High]

The Greeks need to stop making demands and be realistic.

Yes those pesky Greeks need to stop asking for their wages,stop complaining about the rising prices and also start paying those crippling taxes that the corrupt banks ran up on their behalf.
How dare those Greek working people complain......send in the riot police and dogs.
Lay down like the sheeple and be shovelled up and shat on.

:rolleyes:

[SwordoftheVistula]

Yes those pesky Greeks need to stop asking for their wages

Wages for doing what? Do nothing government jobs?


stop complaining about the rising prices

Then why don't they eliminate all the regulations which cause these high prices?



and also start paying those crippling taxes that the corrupt banks ran up on their behalf.

What banks? Greek government didn't give their banks a bailout. It was domestic spending on welfare & do-nothing government jobs which got them in debt.

[Aces High]

Wages for doing what? Do nothing government jobs?


Name me one Greek person who gets wages for doing nothing....just one.

[Turkophagos]

Remember, it was their government who falsified their financials to get into the Euro.

All European governments, including the German one, falsify their finances to get into the euro or to remain into it.


Germany Has 5 Trillion Euros of Hidden Debt, Handelsblatt Says

BERLIN (Commodity Online): Contrary to the reported public debt of 2 Trillion Euros, the true German debt may well total 7 Trillion Euros as per calculations by Bernd Raffelhueschen, an economics professor at Freiburg University.

Germany has other liabilities due to shortfalls in the social security and pension funds and this hidden German debt is estimated to be worth 5 trillion Euros, Bernd Raffelhueschen stated in Handelsblatt, a leading German newspaper reported. That puts the total German debt at 7 Trillion Euros against the officially reported 2 Trillion!!

If the figures turn true, then the ongoing European financial crisis may turn into a nightmare given that Germany is the largest economy in the European Union.


http://mobile.bloomberg.com/news/2011-09-23/germany-has-5-trillion-euros-of-hidden-debt-handelsblatt-says

http://www.commodityonline.com/market-movers/Real-German-debt-may-be-7-trillion-Euros-not-2-trillion-Professor-September%2023,%202011%2015:50:00-3-4047-3-1.html

http://articles.businessinsider.com/2011-09-23/europe/30192939_1_paper-reports-debt-problem-german-paper


I hope we won't be accused for this one too.

[Turkophagos]

Wages for doing what? Do nothing government jobs? For the shake of the argument let's agree that that the 15% of workers who work in the public sector do nothing and deserve severe wage cuts.

What about the 85% of the private sector?




Then why don't they eliminate all the regulations which cause these high prices?

Cartels cause these high prices here.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cartel



What banks? Greek government didn't give their banks a bailout. It was domestic spending on welfare & do-nothing government jobs which got them in debt.

Greece have given its banks a 40 billion euro bailout twice.

[Seeker]

We are all going down baby!!! <3

Let Greece fall (i mean full bankrupt situation), and join us to hell ! Not that we have to lose anything more right now.

Its called domino effect ...

Oh, and i am serious.

[Turkophagos]

sKhN0gh0kjY

[Falkata]

Greece is completely fucked up.
Investment banks and hedge funds are betting in favour of the Greece´s bankruptcy and they´ve already bought tons of CDS. Greek debt is extremely worthless and cheap so for many investors the default of the country would be more profitable than its stability.

GDP is also in free fall
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/greece-gdp-annual-growth-rate.png

[Seeker]

Greece is completely fucked up.


Yeah, its true



Investment banks and hedge funds are betting in favour of the Greece´s bankruptcy and they´ve already bought tons of CDS.

Greek debt is extremely worthless and cheap so for many investors the default of the country would be more profitable than its stability.

Yeah true, for many investors as you said. BUT not for ALL of them out there. Some of them are about to lose around 400Bill Euro, quite considerable amount eh ?



GDP is also in free fall
http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/greece-gdp-annual-growth-rate.png

Yeah, now we are a legit Balkan crap country lol... blah already missed my Hermès shopping therapy. Hermès, eh what ?

Oh, and by the way... Standard & Poor's downgraded Spain's economy just 3 hours b4 (http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financialcrisis/8826163/SandP-downgrades-Spain.html) to AA- with negative outlook, apparently.

My sincere condolences.

[Falkata]

Spain has important problems too, mainly regarding very high unemployment specially between young people and non-graduate workers
Our growth is minimal but at least we´re not falling anymore.

http://www.tradingeconomics.com/charts/spain-gdp-growth-rate.png

Goverment debt is not a very important problem for us neither

http://img5.imageshack.us/img5/1738/chartimgr.png