My 23andme results (Balkan)

[Tvrtko]

Hi guys I just took the 23andme test and I'm still pretty confused about my identity, I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. So my results were 66% Balkan with Bosnia & Croatia being the likely matches and Serbia being a possible match. I also got 30% Eastern Euro with Poland being a possible match which I was surprised and knew nothing about. What I have known is my father is a Croat-Serb from Bosnia with Croatian being the paternal side & my mother is 100% Bosniak. If anyone can help me out to break things down further or wants my raw data I'd really appreciate it, thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

[Mortimer]

All Southslavs are split in Balkan and Eastern European components. It is not unusual, it doesnt mean you are part polish.

[Dick]

Post your regions. I'm the only one so far that I've seen that gets Slavonia as a stronger evidence of recent ancestry. Also which region do you get for Poland? I get Podkarpackie.

[PaleoEuropean]

I'm Polish and I got some Greek/Balkan, but they didn't specify the country:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?292829-Peterski-s-23andMe-results

https://i.imgur.com/KPsnln6.png

It could be from the haplogroup E farmers

[Peterski]

It could be from the haplogroup E farmers

But 23andMe claim that they report ancestry only from the last 200-500 years. :)

[Mortimer]

But 23andMe claim that they report ancestry only from the last 200-500 years. :)

Thats certainly not true or I would have no southasian at all.

[Peterski]

Thats certainly not true or I would have no southasian at all.

In this case Gypsies are like a South Asian "enclave" in Europe.

And you have Gypsy ancestry within the last 200-500 years.

[Dick]

Thats certainly not true or I would have no southasian at all.

What do you mean? Do you get West Asian instead now? It's probably the same thing

[Peterski]

Gypsies are a "mobile piece of South Asia" in Europe.

[Mortimer]

In this case Gypsies are like a South Asian enclave in Europe.

And you have Gypsy ancestry within the last 200-500 years.

Possible but technically the southasian ancestry in gypsies is 1.500 years old. Im not sure if it works like what you say though. But it is also possible. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245032/Gypsies-settled-Europe-1-500-years-ago-didnt-arrive-UK-centuries-ago.html

[Mortimer]

What do you mean? Do you get West Asian instead now? It's probably the same thing

I mean that southasian ancestry in gypsies is 1.500 years old not within 200 - 500 years. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245032/Gypsies-settled-Europe-1-500-years-ago-didnt-arrive-UK-centuries-ago.html

[Mortimer]

Gypsies are a "mobile piece of South Asia" in Europe.

I know they are of southasian ancestry, but it dates further back then 500 years. Thats my point.

[Dick]

I mean that southasian ancestry in gypsies is 1.500 years old not within 200 - 500 years. https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2245032/Gypsies-settled-Europe-1-500-years-ago-didnt-arrive-UK-centuries-ago.html

Yeah but that south asian dna was passed on for generations so according to 23AM it's recent and always will be "recent" according to dna companies as long as you pass on your dna until it gets diluted hopefully.

[PaleoEuropean]

But 23andMe claim that they report ancestry only from the last 200-500 years. :)

With recombination I find that impossible

[Peterski]

I know they are of southasian ancestry, but it dates further back then 500 years. Thats my point.

But if they didn't mix with Europeans immediately after arriving in Europe, then it means that they were 100% South Asian until recently.

I know that today most of Gypsies have a significant amount of European DNA, but maybe 500 years ago they were still 100% South Asian?

Someone who is 100% South Asian and lives in Europe will get the same DNA results as a fresh-of-the boat Indian immigrant in the USA.

[Mortimer]

Yeah but that south asian dna was passed on for generations so according to 23AM it's recent and always will be "recent" according to dna companies as long as you pass on your dna until it gets diluted hopefully.

Isnt that true for all DNA? My point is only that the 200 years can only be bullshit. If you have italian ancestry it also gets passed down for generations and generations right?

[Peterski]

You know, some White Americans live in America longer than 500 years, but it doesn't mean that they are going to score 0% European and 100% Native American on a DNA test.

[Dick]

With recombination I find that impossible

That's a valid point actually. You dont know what you'll get from your parents, grandparents etc. Even siblings can be different.

What's also valid is Ydna. That will never change

[Mortimer]

But if they didn't mix with Europeans immediately after arriving in Europe, then it means that they were 100% South Asian until recently.

I know that today most of Gypsies have a significant amount of European DNA, but maybe 500 years ago they were still 100% South Asian?

I think we dont understand eatch other. My point is not that gypsies are european or how much but that the 200 years timeline is bullshit. If you are african or southasian or european it doesnt matter, you always will be why would it be different for gypsies then for a european in america?

[Peterski]

but that the 200 years timeline is bullshit

It is not bullshit as long as we are talking about minor and fragmented segments of ancestry. Check this thread:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208811-Does-23andme-overestimate-major-components-whilst-underestimating-minority-components

"23andMe's speculative mode greatly overestimates major components, and underestimates minor components. This is due to their methodology of snipping the genome into 100 SNP segments to compare against the limited references they have. So for example, if 60% of the the segment indicates Middle Eastern, and 40% indicates S Asian, that segment is assigned 100% Middle Eastern. In effect 40% of the segment, which is S Asian is ignored, and the whole segment is assigned Middle-Eastern.

Also, their methodology includes segment smoothing, which means if there are chunks of minor components in a segment, they are ignored.

That is how Iranians and W Asians turn out 98-100% Middle Eastern, and folks in neighboring Pakistan turn out 98-100% S Asian in speculative mode.

This naturally is unrealistic and uninformative, because you don't need a test to tell you that. Conservative mode is better with regards to inflation of major components and underestimation of minor components, but the trouble here is that people get 5-70% unassigned. This is where your minor components are hidden.

The above translates to 23andMe being useless for figuring out your minor components to any degree of accuracy"

=====

Of course if you are 100% South Asian then your South Asian is not minor or fragmented, but all of your ancestry.

Even if you live in Europe for 1000 years you will get South Asian if you are still 100% South Asian after all this time.

[Dick]

Isnt that true for all DNA? My point is only that the 200 years can only be bullshit. If you have italian ancestry it also gets passed down for generations and generations right?

It all depends. Autosmal isnt black and white. you have south asian because both of your parents have gypsy mixture

[Tvrtko]

Post your regions. I'm the only one so far that I've seen that gets Slavonia as a stronger evidence of recent ancestry. Also which region do you get for Poland? I get Podkarpackie.

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

[Mortimer]

It is not bullshit as long as we are talking about minor and fragmented segments of ancestry. Check this thread:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208811-Does-23andme-overestimate-major-components-whilst-underestimating-minority-components

"23andMe's speculative mode greatly overestimates major components, and underestimates minor components. This is due to their methodology of snipping the genome into 100 SNP segments to compare against the limited references they have. So for example, if 60% of the the segment indicates Middle Eastern, and 40% indicates S Asian, that segment is assigned 100% Middle Eastern. In effect 40% of the segment, which is S Asian is ignored, and the whole segment is assigned Middle-Eastern.

Also, their methodology includes segment smoothing, which means if there are chunks of minor components in a segment, they are ignored.

That is how Iranians and W Asians turn out 98-100% Middle Eastern, and folks in neighboring Pakistan turn out 98-100% S Asian in speculative mode.

This naturally is unrealistic and uninformative, because you don't need a test to tell you that. Conservative mode is better with regards to inflation of major components and underestimation of minor components, but the trouble here is that people get 5-70% unassigned. This is where your minor components are hidden.

The above translates to 23andMe being useless for figuring out your minor components to any degree of accuracy"

=====

Of course if you are 100% South Asian then your South Asian is not minor or fragmented, but all of your ancestry.

Even if you live in Europe for 1000 years you will get South Asian if you are still 100% South Asian after all this time.

Makes no sense to me. Whether you are 50%, 25% or 100% southasian it shouldnt matter. Well I can understand if it is 0.1% that it might be different but not for 10% or 5% + it shouldnt really matter. We agreed that DNA gets passed down for generations.

[PaleoEuropean]

That's a valid point actually. You dont know what you'll get from your parents, grandparents etc. Even siblings can be different.

What's also valid is Ydna. That will never change

Also Haplogroup E and the Early farmer dna is still floating around, 5% seems like a reasonable amount for Poland.

[War Chef]

Also Haplogroup E and the Early farmer dna is still floating around, 5% seems like a reasonable amount for Poland.

Hey girlfriend, haplogroups don't correlate to autosomal DNA.

For example Hitler was E, and he's as Austrian as it gets foo

[PaleoEuropean]

Hey girlfriend, haplogroups don't correlate to autosomal DNA.

For example Hitler was E, and he's as Austrian as it gets foo

I never said it did, but those groups are still floating around and their DNA hasn't gone extinct. 5% Admixture wise is reasonable like I said when you correlate the population of the inhabitants that brought that autosomal dna. Also Autosmal DNA without a full genome sequencing is just a novelty, it's value is nil when it comes to conclusiveness.

[Mortimer]

It is not bullshit as long as we are talking about minor and fragmented segments of ancestry. Check this thread:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?208811-Does-23andme-overestimate-major-components-whilst-underestimating-minority-components

"23andMe's speculative mode greatly overestimates major components, and underestimates minor components. This is due to their methodology of snipping the genome into 100 SNP segments to compare against the limited references they have. So for example, if 60% of the the segment indicates Middle Eastern, and 40% indicates S Asian, that segment is assigned 100% Middle Eastern. In effect 40% of the segment, which is S Asian is ignored, and the whole segment is assigned Middle-Eastern.

Also, their methodology includes segment smoothing, which means if there are chunks of minor components in a segment, they are ignored.

That is how Iranians and W Asians turn out 98-100% Middle Eastern, and folks in neighboring Pakistan turn out 98-100% S Asian in speculative mode.

This naturally is unrealistic and uninformative, because you don't need a test to tell you that. Conservative mode is better with regards to inflation of major components and underestimation of minor components, but the trouble here is that people get 5-70% unassigned. This is where your minor components are hidden.

The above translates to 23andMe being useless for figuring out your minor components to any degree of accuracy"

=====

Of course if you are 100% South Asian then your South Asian is not minor or fragmented, but all of your ancestry.

Even if you live in Europe for 1000 years you will get South Asian if you are still 100% South Asian after all this time.

Ok I see this with the segments but lets say you are 15% black african or black african with 15% european it would show up even if it is 1000 years old just as for gypsies with their southasian DNA why would it be different?

[Dick]

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

Thanks for sharing. I'm still the only one I've seen that gets Slavonia/Baranja

[Dick]

I never said it did, but those groups are still floating around and their DNA hasn't gone extinct. 5% Admixture wise is reasonable like I said when you correlate the population of the inhabitants that brought that autosomal dna. Also Autosmal DNA without a full genome sequencing is just a novelty, it's value is nil when it comes to conclusiveness.

+1 these commercial tests regarding autosmal ancestry are just novelties. Hopefully Full genome testing will be more affordable in the future, it's now around a grand US afaik.

[Peterski]

Makes no sense to me.

People with recently mixed ancestry have long segments from each of their ancestral populations in their DNA.

On the other hand, when two groups mixed longed ago (like Mestizos in Latin America), segments from each ancestral population are short and fragmented.

Here is an example, an Uyghur (Central Asian Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixed ethnic group) vs. a person with one European parent and one Mongoloid parent:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/11/eurasianman.png

^^^
23andMe divides your DNA into 100 SNP long segments, and if one segment is 40% Mongoloid + 60% Caucasoid, they count entire segment as Caucasoid.

This can cause underestimation of some minor ancestries which are very fragmented into small segments (so not recent).

[Mortimer]

People with recently mixed ancestry have long segments from each of their ancestral populations in the DNA.

On the other hand, when two groups mixed longed ago (like Mestizos in Latin America), segments from each ancestral population are short and fragmented.

Here is an example, an Uyghur (Central Asian Mongoloid-Caucasoid mixed ethnic group) vs. a person with one European parent and one Mongoloid parent:

http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/gnxp/files/2010/11/eurasianman.png

Ok but both ancestries show up. Not only 200 years ago.

[PaleoEuropean]

+1 these commercial tests regarding autosmal ancestry are just novelties. Hopefully Full genome testing will be more affordable in the future, it's now around a grand US afaik.

Yea we need new calculators too all the gedmatch ones are like 10+ years old all the reference populations come from a small group of people etc. The ADNA industry needs a huge leap forward.

[Peterski]

Ok but both ancestries show up. Not only 200 years ago.

But they divide your DNA into 100 SNP long segments. If one segment is for example 75% European and 25% South Asian, they will count it as 100% European.

If you have many segments which are mixed like this, but more Euro, then it means that they will underestimate your South Asian because it is so fragmented.

[Mortimer]

But they divide your DNA into 100 SNP long segments. If one segment is for example 75% European and 25% South Asian, they will count it as 100% European.

If you have many segments which are mixed like this, but more Euro, then it means that they will underestimate your South Asian because it is so fragmented.

Ok might be the reason why Im now only 3% southasian. Thanks for explaining but I still disagree that the 200 years timeline rule is 100% valid.

[Peterski]

Ok might be the reason why Im now only 3% southasian.

Yeah it is weird, on other tests you scored more South Asian if I remember correctly.

You also score some West Asian on 23andMe?

[Mortimer]

Yeah it is weird, on other tests you scored more South Asian if I remember correctly.

You also score some West Asian on 23andMe?

Yes also westasian.

[Dick]

Yea we need new calculators too all the gedmatch ones are like 10+ years old all the reference populations come from a small group of people etc. The ADNA industry needs a huge leap forward.

I think that whole segment of ADNA is dead. You have Davidski's G25 but not everyone knows how to operate R so I don't see that getting bigger than it is now. Most people wont bother with the R program. Even the online G25 calc is hard for average people to learn how to operate. ADNA is now targeted to normies and results are provided in layman's terms. Everyone is now doing dna testing.

[Peterski]

Yes also westasian.

Did you score more West Asian than South Asian? And do they count Pakistan as part of West Asia?

[Mortimer]

Did you score more West Asian than South Asian? And do they count Pakistan as part of West Asia?

No they count Pakistan as part of Southasia even Afghanistan they count as Southasia. I scored much more Westasian then southasian. Im 26% westasian but only 3% southasian. But it used to be different. I was 15% southasian and 9% westasian before the update. Im excited about the newest update it might change completely.

[Dick]

Im excited about the newest update it might change completely.

And when will that be? They will update for years and years to come either way because autosmal dna is not set in stone unlike Ydna or mtdna

[Maintenance]

Guys....you are kinda off topic.

[Mortimer]

And when will that be? They will update for years and years to come either way because autosmal dna is not set in stone unlike Ydna or mtdna

I have no idea but probably this year maybe in a few months.

[Dick]

Guys....you are kinda off topic.

Rules are made to be broken

[Dick]

Hi


OP what's your Ydna by the way?

[Peterski]

Hi guys I just took the 23andme test and I'm still pretty confused about my identity, I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. So my results were 66% Balkan with Bosnia & Croatia being the likely matches and Serbia being a possible match. I also got 30% Eastern Euro with Poland being a possible match which I was surprised and knew nothing about. What I have known is my father is a Croat-Serb from Bosnia with Croatian being the paternal side & my mother is 100% Bosniak. If anyone can help me out to break things down further or wants my raw data I'd really appreciate it thanks.

EDIT: here are images of the maps, I would upload directly here but the file size is too big and I don't feel like re-sizing

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

On a Polish forum we have a discussion about the origins and migrations of Slavs.

One guy there claims, that when Slavs invaded the Balkans, they initially did not mix with the locals. He claims that 100% pure Slavs existed in the Balkans for centuries after the invasion.

He claims that mixing between Slavs and Vlachs/locals started only after few centuries.

Maybe you score 30% Masovia (your region within Poland) because some of your ancestors come from a village where genetically purely Slavic people lived until recently (500 years ago?).

What does your Ancestry Timeline say ???

=====

BTW, there were also Poles in Bosnia in the late 1800s and early 1900s (they came there from Austrian-ruled Galicia after Bosnia was captured by Austria from the Ottomans):

http://polacy-w-bosni.pl/

[Dick]

On a Polish forum we have a discussion about the origins and migrations of Slavs.

One guy there claims, that when Slavs invaded the Balkans, they initially did not mix with the locals. He claims that 100% pure Slavs existed in the Balkans for centuries after the invasion.

He claims that mixing between Slavs and Vlachs/locals started only after few centuries.

Maybe you score 30% Masovia (your region within Poland) because some of your ancestors come from a village where genetically purely Slavic people lived until recently (500 years ago?).

What does your Ancestry Timeline say ???

=====

BTW, there were also Poles in Bosnia in the 1800s:

http://polacy-w-bosni.pl/

Those Poles were from Galicia, not Masovia.


https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galicia_(Eastern_Europe)


Anyway, which "invasion" bud? Slavs were migrating south ever since, well, ever.

[Peterski]

Those Poles were from Galicia, not Masovia.

He scored Masovia and Galicia (Podkarpackie).

Also, many Poles in East Galicia were originally from Masovia, because there was a Medieval migration of Masovians to the east.

I used to think that Masovians migrated only to Belarus and Lithuania, but it turns out many also migrated to Western Ukraine.

=====

Wikipedia about Poles in Bosnia:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poles_in_Bosnia_and_Herzegovina

[Dick]

He scored Masovia and Galicia (Podkarpackie).

Also, many Poles in East Galicia were originally from Masovia, because there was a Medieval migration of Masovians to the east.

I used to think that Masovians migrated only to Belarus and Lithuania, but it turns out many also migrated to Western Ukraine.

Alrightski, now answer my question

[Peterski]

Anyway, which "invasion" bud? Slavs were migrating south ever since, well, ever.

^^^ The one described by terrified Byzantine authors:

Procopius of Caesarea, "De Bellis", VII, 13, 24:

"For a great throng of barbarians, the Slavs, had, as it happened, recently crossed the river Danube, plundered the adjoining country, and enslaved a very great number of Romans."

Procopius of Caesarea, "Historia Arcana", 18, 20-21:

"Illyria and all of Thrace, that is, from the Ionian Gulf to the suburbs of Constantinople, including Greece and the Chersonese, were overrun by the Slavs, almost every year, from the time when Justinian took over the Roman Empire; and intolerable things they did to the inhabitants. For in each of these invasions, I estimate, more than two hundred thousand Romans were slain or enslaved, so that all this country became a desert like that of Scythia."

Procopius of Caesarea, "Historia Arcana", 23, 6:

"The Slavs ravaged all of Europe; captured cities were either razed to their foundations, or made to pay terrible tribute; men were carried off into slavery together with all their property, and every district was deserted by its inhabitants because of the daily raids: yet no tax was remitted, except in the case of cities that had been captured by the enemy, and then only for one year."

John of Ephesus "Historia Ecclesiastica", 6, 25:

"That same year, being the third after the death of emperor Justin, was famous also for the invasion of an accursed people, called Slavs, who overran the whole of Greece, and the lands of Thessaly, and all Thrace, and captured the cities, and took numerous forts, and devastated and burnt, and reduced the people to slavery, and made themselves masters of the whole country, and settled in it by main force, and dwelt in it as though it had been their own without fear. And four years have now elapsed, and still, because the king is engaged in the war with the Persians, and has sent all his forces to the East, they live at their ease in the land, and dwell in it, and spread themselves far and wide as far as God permits them, and ravage and burn and take captive. And to such an extent do they carry their ravages, that they have even ridden up to the outer wall of the city [Constantinople], and driven away all the king's herds of horses, many thousands in number, and whatever else they could find. And even to this day, being the year 584 AD, they still encamp and dwell there, and live in peace in the Roman territories, free from anxiety and fear, and lead captive and slay and burn: and they have grown rich in gold and silver, and herds of horses, and arms, and have learnt to fight better than the Romans, though at first they were but rude savages, who did not venture to shew themselves outside the woods and the coverts of the trees; and as for arms, they did not even know what they were, with the exception of two or three javelins or darts."

Menander Protector, fragments 47 and 48:

"About the fourth year of the reign of Caesar Tiberius Constantine, some 100,000 Slavs broke into Thrace, and pillaged that and many other regions. As Greece was being laid waste by the Slavs, with trouble liable to flare up anywhere, and as Tiberius had at his disposal by no means sufficient forces to contain them, he sent a delegation to the Khagan of the Avars [to ask him for help]."

Maurice, "Strategikon", 11, 4:

"The Sclavenes and the Antes live in the same way and have the same customs. They are both independent, absolutely refusing to be enslaved or ruled by foreigners, least of all in their own land. They are populous and hardy, bearing readily heat, cold, rain, nakedness, and scarcity of provisions. They are kind and hospitable to travellers in their country and conduct them safely from one place to another, wherever they wish. (...) They, unlike other peoples, do not keep those who are in captivity among them in perpetual slavery, but they set a definite period of time for them, after which they give them the choice: either, when they so desire, to return to their own homes if they purchase their freedom, or to stay among them as free people and friends."

[Dick]

Yo Peterski, what about these dudes? Their "invasion" was before the Serbocroats for example. Them mixing was definitely more ancient than recent

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melingoi


The Melingoi or Milingoi (Greek: Μηλιγγοί) were a Slavic tribe that settled in the Peloponnese in southern Greece during the Middle Ages. In the early decades of the 7th century, Slavic tribes (Sclaveni) settled throughout the Balkans following the collapse of the Byzantine Empire's defense of the Danube frontier with some groups reaching as far south as the Peloponnese.[1]

[Peterski]

Yes, I think Serbs and Croats came from White Serbia [North Serbia] and White Croatia [North Croatia].

It was the 2nd invasion, not the 1st one described by Byzantine authors quoted in my previous post.

White Croats and White Serbs probably came from areas of Poland, or even East Germany (see: Sorbs (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sorbs)).

[Tvrtko]

On a Polish forum we have a discussion about the origins and migrations of Slavs.

One guy there claims, that when Slavs invaded the Balkans, they initially did not mix with the locals. He claims that 100% pure Slavs existed in the Balkans for centuries after the invasion.

He claims that mixing between Slavs and Vlachs/locals started only after few centuries.

Maybe you score 30% Masovia (your region within Poland) because some of your ancestors come from a village where genetically purely Slavic people lived until recently (500 years ago?).

What does your Ancestry Timeline say ???

=====

BTW, there were also Poles in Bosnia in the late 1800s and early 1900s (they came there from Austrian-ruled Galicia after Bosnia was captured by Austria from the Ottomans):

http://polacy-w-bosni.pl/

https://i.imgur.com/kWqHUGc.jpg

"You most likely had a parent, grandparent, or great-grandparent who was 100% Greek & Balkan. This person was likely born between 1900 and 1960."

"You most likely had a grandparent, great-grandparent, or second-great-grandparent who was 100% Eastern European. This person was likely born between 1870 and 1930."

[Peterski]

"You most likely had a grandparent, great-grandparent, or second-great-grandparent who was 100% Eastern European. This person was likely born between 1870 and 1930."

Wow, interesting. Maybe it was really one of Poles in Bosnia. What about your matches, do you have Polish matches?:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?292866-Ancestor-Birthplaces-of-your-relatives

[Tvrtko]

Wow, interesting. Maybe it was really one of Poles in Bosnia. What about your matches, do you have any Polish matches?:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?292866-Ancestor-Birthplaces-of-your-relatives

It says I don't have access to the page

[Peterski]

It says I don't have access to the page

This is the alphabetical list of settlements in Bosnia where more than 5 Polish families (rodz.) lived as of 1938:

http://polacy-w-bosni.pl/?alfabetyczny-spis-miejscowosci-zamieszkanych-przez-rodziny-polskie-w-przededniu-2-wojny-swiatowej,20

"The list of settlements, comprising more than 5 Polish families, situated in Bosnia and adjacent areas in 1938 y.)

pow. = county

Babanovci (Babinowce) pow. PrDjavor, 20 rodź.

Bakinci Donji i Gornji (Bakińce) pow. Banja Luka, 100 rodź.

Bakśic Lug, pow. Nasice, 26 rodź.

Cadjavicki Lug, pow. Donji Miholac, 6 rodź.

Celinować (zw. też Cerovljani) (Celinowacz), pow. Gradiśka, 100 rodź.

Ćorle pow. Prnjawor, 7 rodź.

Ćukali (Czukale) pow. Prnjavor, 30 rodź. 176 głów.

Detlak, pow. Derventa, 20 rodź.

Devetina (Dziewięcina), pow. Prnjavor, 110 rodź.

Dombrova (zw. też Pastireva) pow. Bos. Novi, 50 rodź.

Dubrava St. i Nova (Dąbrowa), pow. Prnjavor, 189 rodź.

Galipovci (Galipowce), pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Glogovac, pow. Prnjavor, 6 rodź.

Grabaśnica, pow Prnjavor, 70 rodź.

Grabik Ilova, pow. Prnjavor, 12 rodź.

Gumjera, pow. Prnjavor, 270 rodż.

Hrvacani, pow. Prnjavor, 6 rodź.

Ilićani (Iliczany), pow. Prnjavor, 100 głów.

Jedovica, pow. Prnjavor, 35 rodź

Jośike, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Kalendarovci (Kalendarowce), pow. Derventa, 20 rodź.

Kamenica (Kamienica), pow. Prnjavor, 5 rodź.

Karaći (Karacze), pow. Prnjavor, 13 rodź.

Klenik, pow. Donji Miholac, 8 rodź.

Kokorski Lug, pow. Prnjavor, 14 rodź.

Konjuhovac (Koniuchowce), pow. Prnjavor, 28 rodź.

Kukavica, pow. Drventa, 10 rodź.

Krećani (Kreczany), pow. Oerventa 10 rodź.

Karajzovac (Krajzowce). pow. Bosanska Gradiśka, 10 rodź

Kukulje, pow. Bos Gradiśka, 8 rodź.

Kunova, pow. Prnjavor, 120 rodź.

Lepenica, pow. Prnjavor, 25 rodź.

Laminci, pow. Bos. Gradiśka, 8 rodź.

Liśnja wraz z okolicą, pow. Prnjavor, 55 rodź.

Luzani, pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Maćino Brdo, pow. Prnjavor, 17 rodź.

Mahovljani, pow. Banja Luka, 25 rodź.

Malici pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Martinac Novi, pow. Prnjawor, 1677 people in 1931, ca. 1800 in 1938

Martinac Stari, pow. Prnjavor 18 rodź.

Miljevać (Milewacz), pow. Bos. Gradisśka, 100 rodź.

Modran, pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Mravica Srpska, pow. Prnjavor 9 rodź.

Nova Topola (former name Windhorst), pow. Bos. Gradiśka, 20 rodź.

Novo Selo, pow. Derventa, 15 rodź.

Noźicko, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź., 134 głów

Osojka, pow. Derventa, 8 rodź.

Paremija, pow. Prnjavor, 7 rodź.

Pleani (Plehany), pow. Derventa, 6 rodź.

Prosjek, pow. Prnjavor, 10 rodź.

Prnjavica, pow. Prnjavor, 7 rodź.

Prnjavor pow. Prnjavor, 25 rodź.

Rakovac (Rakowiec), pow. Prnjavor, 40 rodź.

Seliśce, pow. Prnjavor, 40 rodź.

Sitneź, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Smrtić Donji (Śmiertnica) pow. Prnjavor, 5 rodź.

Smrtić Gornji (Śmiertnica), pow. Prnjavor, 20 rodź.

Srdjevici (Srdżewice), pow. Prnjavor, 60 rodź.

Staro Petrovo Selo, pow. Nowa Gradiśka, 18 rodź.

Strbci, pow. Prnjavor, 21 rodź.

Suśnjari, pow. Derwenta, 10 rodź.

Trośelji (Troszelje), pow. Bos. Gradiska, 20 rodź.

Vućjak (Wuczjak), pow. Prnjawor, 7 rodź."

[Dick]

This is the alphabetical list of settlements in Bosnia where more than 5 Polish families (rodz.) lived as of 1938:

http://polacy-w-bosni.pl/?alfabetyczny-spis-miejscowosci-zamieszkanych-przez-rodziny-polskie-w-przededniu-2-wojny-swiatowej,20

"The list of settlements, comprising more than 5 Polish families, situated in Bosnia and adjacent areas in 1938 y.)

pow. = county

Babanovci (Babinowce) pow. PrDjavor, 20 rodź.

Bakinci Donji i Gornji (Bakińce) pow. Banja Luka, 100 rodź.

Bakśic Lug, pow. Nasice, 26 rodź.

Cadjavicki Lug, pow. Donji Miholac, 6 rodź.

Celinować (zw. też Cerovljani) (Celinowacz), pow. Gradiśka, 100 rodź.

Ćorle pow. Prnjawor, 7 rodź.

Ćukali (Czukale) pow. Prnjavor, 30 rodź. 176 głów.

Detlak, pow. Derventa, 20 rodź.

Devetina (Dziewięcina), pow. Prnjavor, 110 rodź.

Dombrova (zw. też Pastireva) pow. Bos. Novi, 50 rodź.

Dubrava St. i Nova (Dąbrowa), pow. Prnjavor, 189 rodź.

Galipovci (Galipowce), pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Glogovac, pow. Prnjavor, 6 rodź.

Grabaśnica, pow Prnjavor, 70 rodź.

Grabik Ilova, pow. Prnjavor, 12 rodź.

Gumjera, pow. Prnjavor, 270 rodż.

Hrvacani, pow. Prnjavor, 6 rodź.

Ilićani (Iliczany), pow. Prnjavor, 100 głów.

Jedovica, pow. Prnjavor, 35 rodź

Jośike, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Kalendarovci (Kalendarowce), pow. Derventa, 20 rodź.

Kamenica (Kamienica), pow. Prnjavor, 5 rodź.

Karaći (Karacze), pow. Prnjavor, 13 rodź.

Klenik, pow. Donji Miholac, 8 rodź.

Kokorski Lug, pow. Prnjavor, 14 rodź.

Konjuhovac (Koniuchowce), pow. Prnjavor, 28 rodź.

Kukavica, pow. Drventa, 10 rodź.

Krećani (Kreczany), pow. Oerventa 10 rodź.

Karajzovac (Krajzowce). pow. Bosanska Gradiśka, 10 rodź

Kukulje, pow. Bos Gradiśka, 8 rodź.

Kunova, pow. Prnjavor, 120 rodź.

Lepenica, pow. Prnjavor, 25 rodź.

Laminci, pow. Bos. Gradiśka, 8 rodź.

Liśnja wraz z okolicą, pow. Prnjavor, 55 rodź.

Luzani, pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Maćino Brdo, pow. Prnjavor, 17 rodź.

Mahovljani, pow. Banja Luka, 25 rodź.

Malici pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Martinac Novi, pow. Prnjawor, 1677 people in 1931, ca. 1800 in 1938

Martinac Stari, pow. Prnjavor 18 rodź.

Miljevać (Milewacz), pow. Bos. Gradisśka, 100 rodź.

Modran, pow. Derventa, 5 rodź.

Mravica Srpska, pow. Prnjavor 9 rodź.

Nova Topola (former name Windhorst), pow. Bos. Gradiśka, 20 rodź.

Novo Selo, pow. Derventa, 15 rodź.

Noźicko, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź., 134 głów

Osojka, pow. Derventa, 8 rodź.

Paremija, pow. Prnjavor, 7 rodź.

Pleani (Plehany), pow. Derventa, 6 rodź.

Prosjek, pow. Prnjavor, 10 rodź.

Prnjavica, pow. Prnjavor, 7 rodź.

Prnjavor pow. Prnjavor, 25 rodź.

Rakovac (Rakowiec), pow. Prnjavor, 40 rodź.

Seliśce, pow. Prnjavor, 40 rodź.

Sitneź, pow. Prnjavor, 15 rodź.

Smrtić Donji (Śmiertnica) pow. Prnjavor, 5 rodź.

Smrtić Gornji (Śmiertnica), pow. Prnjavor, 20 rodź.

Srdjevici (Srdżewice), pow. Prnjavor, 60 rodź.

Staro Petrovo Selo, pow. Nowa Gradiśka, 18 rodź.

Strbci, pow. Prnjavor, 21 rodź.

Suśnjari, pow. Derwenta, 10 rodź.

Trośelji (Troszelje), pow. Bos. Gradiska, 20 rodź.

Vućjak (Wuczjak), pow. Prnjawor, 7 rodź."

That's all in Bosnian Serb territory.

[Tvrtko]

Wow, interesting. Maybe it was really one of Poles in Bosnia. What about your matches, do you have Polish matches?:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?292866-Ancestor-Birthplaces-of-your-relatives

https://i.imgur.com/WqXFWQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cb7moj1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xsUuIt5.jpg

[Vojnik]

Poor Tvrtko. His thread was derailed.

Tvrtko, i like your username.

Have you uploaded your raw data to Gedmatch?

If so, give me your Eurogenes K36 results.

And congratulations on your results.

[TheOldNorth]

All Southslavs are split in Balkan and Eastern European components. It is not unusual, it doesnt mean you are part polish.

Very true, it’s eastern Poland is near the slavic homeland, so it makes sense

[Peterski]

Yes you should upload your raw data to GEDmatch.

[Maintenance]

Yes you should upload your raw data to GEDmatch.

Which calcs do you want?

i have his raw data on gedmatch already

k13

https://i.imgur.com/r5FojrW.png

[Jana]

Completely normal results for Bosnian.
23andme is not the best for southwest Slavs.

I have nothing to add. I score over 40 percent Eastern European and it is all medieval.

Chances you have recent Polish ancestry are extremely unlikely as we all get Poland.

[Vojnik]

Which calcs do you want?

i have his raw data on gedmatch already

k13



Whats his k36?

[Jana]

Whats his k36?

K36 is worthless for Bosnians because Bosnia reference is very off. Most get Slovenia as number 1.

OP is closest to Moldovans and Croats, as expected.

[Maintenance]

Whats his k36?

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.52 Pct
Basque 2.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 11.70 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 10.63 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.47 Pct
French 1.64 Pct
Iberian 6.36 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 15.00 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.69 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.31 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 5.81 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.23 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.14 Pct
West_Med 4.24 Pct

[Maintenance]

https://i.imgur.com/WN4aCVQ.png

[Lemgrant]

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.52 Pct
Basque 2.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 11.70 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 10.63 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.47 Pct
French 1.64 Pct
Iberian 6.36 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 15.00 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.69 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.31 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 5.81 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.23 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.14 Pct
West_Med 4.24 Pct
https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/similitude.htm

https://i.postimg.cc/T3X0SQnp/balkan.png

with function B: 70% Bosnian removed>

https://i.postimg.cc/J0p8gt2h/balkan2.png

or 70% Montenegrin removed:

https://i.postimg.cc/m23pT0LQ/balkan3.png

[Lemgrant]

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.52 Pct
Basque 2.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 11.70 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 10.63 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.47 Pct
French 1.64 Pct
Iberian 6.36 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 15.00 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.69 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.31 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 5.81 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.23 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.14 Pct
West_Med 4.24 Pct

+ K36 Mapping
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?221329-Eurogenes-K36-Mapping

https://i.postimg.cc/5yrzJ9Hx/mapping.png

[Lemgrant]

https://i.imgur.com/WqXFWQg.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/cb7moj1.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/xsUuIt5.jpg

.

[Vojnik]

Lemgrant beat me to it. Tvrtko doesn't get an high score in any region really.

[Vojnik]

http://i66.tinypic.com/1418lm8.png

http://i63.tinypic.com/20kc120.png

[Leto]

Which calcs do you want?

i have his raw data on gedmatch already

Dodecad K12b, puntDNAL K15 and MDLP K23b please.

[Maintenance]

Dodecad K12b, puntDNAL K15 and MDLP K23b please.

K23b

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 36.06
2 Caucasian 29.94
3 European_Early_Farmers 18.01
4 Near_East 5.4
5 South_Central_Asian 3.79
6 Ancestral_Altaic 2.21
7 South_East_Asian 2.06
8 Amerindian 1.23
9 North_African 0.96
10 African_Pygmy 0.18
11 Australoid 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 4.03
2 Slovenian ( ) 4.54
3 Hungarian ( ) 4.78
4 Czech ( ) 5.91
5 Serb_Serbia ( ) 5.98
6 Croat ( ) 6.53
7 Serb_BH ( ) 6.59
8 Bosnian ( ) 6.8
9 Slovak ( ) 6.85
10 Montenegrian ( ) 7.45
11 Austrian ( ) 7.51
12 Croat_BH ( ) 7.59
13 Ukrainian_West ( ) 8.51
14 Kashub ( ) 8.93
15 Sorb ( ) 9.81
16 Macedonian ( ) 9.97
17 Bulgarian ( ) 9.98
18 German ( ) 10.63
19 German_East ( ) 11.37
20 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 11.46

k12b

# Population Percent
1 North_European 44.23
2 Atlantic_Med 26.48
3 Caucasus 18.26
4 Southwest_Asian 4.99
5 Gedrosia 4.48
6 Southeast_Asian 0.86
7 East_Asian 0.61
8 South_Asian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 4.84
2 German (Dodecad) 11.13
3 Romanians (Behar) 12.09
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 13.99
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 14.36
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.95
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 18.04
8 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 19.55
9 Polish (Dodecad) 19.56
10 French (Dodecad) 20.22
11 Swedish (Dodecad) 20.57
12 French (HGDP) 20.57
13 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.6
14 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.65
15 English (Dodecad) 20.81
16 Norwegian (Dodecad) 21.59
17 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 21.59
18 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.73
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 22.86
20 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 23.1

k15

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 50.6
2 Mediterranean 27.79
3 Caucasian 13.65
4 SW_Asian 5.02
5 Omo_River 1.23
6 Beringian 1.07
7 Oceanian 0.56
8 Amerindian 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.09
2 Serbian 4.03
3 Hungarian 4.94
4 Austrian 5.98
5 Slovenian 6.19
6 South_German 6.62
7 Utahn_White 6.92
8 Irish 7.03
9 Bosnian 7.56
10 Orcadian 8.07
11 English 8.18
12 French 8.21
13 North_German 9.05
14 Scottish 9.58
15 Macedonian 9.61
16 Norwegian 10.64
17 Romanian 11.23
18 Bulgarian 11.82
19 Swedish 12.42
20 Montenegrin 13.78

[Leto]

Nice results, high Eastern European percentage.

[Ljubic]

Hi guys I just took the 23andme test and I'm still pretty confused about my identity, I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. So my results were 66% Balkan with Bosnia & Croatia being the likely matches and Serbia being a possible match. I also got 30% Eastern Euro with Poland being a possible match which I was surprised and knew nothing about. What I have known is my father is a Croat-Serb from Bosnia with Croatian being the paternal side & my mother is 100% Bosniak. If anyone can help me out to break things down further or wants my raw data I'd really appreciate it, thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

Of all people ive seen the Croatian regions of, its always southern Dalmatia. Most of the people testing must be in diaspora from these Regions.

[Ljubic]

Hi guys I just took the 23andme test and I'm still pretty confused about my identity, I apologize if this is the wrong place to ask. So my results were 66% Balkan with Bosnia & Croatia being the likely matches and Serbia being a possible match. I also got 30% Eastern Euro with Poland being a possible match which I was surprised and knew nothing about. What I have known is my father is a Croat-Serb from Bosnia with Croatian being the paternal side & my mother is 100% Bosniak. If anyone can help me out to break things down further or wants my raw data I'd really appreciate it, thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/zkLPZOl.png
https://i.imgur.com/qyMSmJc.png
https://i.imgur.com/XLi6bSV.png
https://i.imgur.com/58up0rU.png

Also no reason to have an identity crisis. Youre a pretty standard Bosnian.

[Jana]

Of all people ive seen the Croatian regions of, its always southern Dalmatia. Most of the people testing must be in diaspora from these Regions.

Yes, because overwhelming majority of overseeas Croats are of Dalmatian origin. I agree with you his results are standard Bosnian.

[Lucas]

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 2.52 Pct
Basque 2.01 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 11.70 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 6.87 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 10.63 Pct
East_Med -
Eastern_Euro 16.39 Pct
Fennoscandian 4.47 Pct
French 1.64 Pct
Iberian 6.36 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 15.00 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.69 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 6.31 Pct
North_Caucasian -
North_Sea 5.81 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian 0.23 Pct
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.14 Pct
West_Med 4.24 Pct


23me V5 in standard K36 oracle gets usually weird results for Bosniaks, true...
Also Tolan K36 similitude will show useless results for him.

single distances:

Slovenia 1.183333
Croatia 1.185418
Croats_BIH 1.196480
Bosniaks 1.227389
Serbia 1.251860
North-East_Romania 1.255942
Western_Serbians 1.284454
Nieder-Schlesien 1.298034
Moldavia 1.316669
Hungary 1.333670


But in K36 oracle based on PCA values (this one used in Poi K36 runner) results are correct for his ancestry.

single distances:

Bosniaks 0.2298124
Croatia 0.2325388
Slovenia 0.2334610
Croats_BIH 0.2343084
Serbia 0.2500186
Western_Serbians 0.2505514
North-East_Romania 0.2568357
Hungary 0.2657340
Montenegro 0.2671921
South-East_Romania 0.2797117

[Leto]

23me V5 in standard K36 oracle gets usually weird results for Bosniaks, true...
Also Tolan K36 similitude will show useless results for him.

single distances:

Slovenia 1.183333
Croatia 1.185418
Croats_BIH 1.196480
Bosniaks 1.227389
Serbia 1.251860
North-East_Romania 1.255942
Western_Serbians 1.284454
Nieder-Schlesien 1.298034
Moldavia 1.316669
Hungary 1.333670


But in K36 oracle based on PCA values (this one used in Poi K36 runner) results are correct for his ancestry.

single distances:

Bosniaks 0.2298124
Croatia 0.2325388
Slovenia 0.2334610
Croats_BIH 0.2343084
Serbia 0.2500186
Western_Serbians 0.2505514
North-East_Romania 0.2568357
Hungary 0.2657340
Montenegro 0.2671921
South-East_Romania 0.2797117
Can you check my sister's husband too?