Y dna of Serbs from Bosnia&Herzegovina

[Pribislav]

Statistic for Serbs from whole Bosnia&Herzegovina on the sample of 677.

I2-M423 = 37.8%
I2-PH908 = 23.9%

R1a-M417 = 19.8%
R1a-Z280 = 13.6%

E-M35 = 13.6%
E-V13 = 13.3%

I1-M253 = 6.9%
I1-P109 = 5%

J2b-M102 = 5.8%
J2b-M205 = 4.1%

N-P189.2 = 5.5%

R1b-M269 = 3.4%
R1b-P312 = 1.8%

J2a-M410 = 2.7%
J2a-M92 = 1.8%

G2a-L1259 = 2.2%
G2a-L497 = 1.8%

J1-M267 = 1.9%
J1-PF7264 = 1.5%

Q-YP1600 = 0.1%

T-L131 = 0.1%

I2-L233 = 0.1%

I = 44.8%
R = 23.2%
E = 13.6%
J = 10.4%
N = 5.5%
G = 2.2%
T = 0.1%
Q = 0.1%

Taken from "Serbian dna project"

[MiloshN]

Interesting, there are not (always an extremely small percentage by region like T and Q) assimilated Roma (H) in Serbian ethnos...

[Cumansky]

I2-M423 around 13.9% for Bosnia and Herzegovina is that correct?

That is the one I am, not I2-PH908

[Jana]

What types of I1 they have, do you know ?

[Pribislav]

What types of I1 they have, do you know ?

I1-P109 is 5%, I1-Z63 is 1.5%, and other branches are 0.4%. Total I1 6.9%.

[Jana]

I1-P109 is 5%, I1-Z63 is 1.5%, and other branches are 0.4%. Total I1 6.9%.

First related with Normans, other with eastern Goths most probably, is that correct ?

[Pribislav]

I2-M423 around 13.9% for Bosnia and Herzegovina is that correct?

That is the one I am, not I2-PH908

Total I2-M423 among Serbs from BiH is 37.8%.

I2-PH908 = 23.9%

I2-Y3120 = 11.1%

2.8% is currently unknown.

[MiloshN]

Total I2-M423 among Serbs from BiH is 37.8%.

I2-PH908 = 23.9%

I2-Y3120 = 11.1%

2.8% is currently unknown.

A EV13? Kakva je slika? Koliko od kojeg pelemena? :)

[Pribislav]

First related with Normans, other with eastern Goths most probably, is that correct ?

I1-P109 is from Normans.
I1-Z63 might be directly Goths, or from Slavs who got this haplo due to assimilation of Goths in eastern Europe.

I1-P109 comes from Drobnjak clan. Further origin is from Normans of Robert Guiscard from southern Italy.

[Pribislav]

A EV13? Kakva je slika? Koliko od kojeg pelemena? :)

Sigurno ima Brđana i Bjelica, ali i onih koji sa Crnom Gorom nemaju nikakve veze.
Mislim da The Devil's Advocate detaljnije o E-V13 među Srbima iz BiH.

[Cumansky]

Total I2-M423 among Serbs from BiH is 37.8%.

I2-PH908 = 23.9%

I2-Y3120 = 11.1%

2.8% is currently unknown.

I2-Y3120 is this subclade found in many countries?

I'm seeing 5 Greece, 3 Belarus, 2 Poland, 1 Lithuania, 1 Russia for Y-Full

[Pribislav]

I2-Y3120 is this subclade found in many countries?

I'm seeing 5 Greece, 3 Belarus, 2 Poland, 1 Lithuania, 1 Russia for Y-Full

Yes.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y3120/

[Dick]

I1-P109 is from Normans.
I1-Z63 might be directly Goths, or from Slavs who got this haplo due to assimilation of Goths in eastern Europe.

I1-P109 comes from Drobnjak clan. Further origin is from Normans of Robert Guiscard from southern Italy.

Z63 could be from Normans as well. The Hamilton clan form Scotland tested a handful of males and they’re Z63.



the family is descended from Walter fitz Gilbert of Cadzow, an Anglo-Norman comrade of Robert the Bruce

[Pribislav]

Z63 could be from Normans as well. The Hamilton clan form Scotland tested a handful of males and they’re Z63.

I think almost all I1-Z63 among Serbs is relared with Macure.
Macure have a match in Belarus, and this is indication that their haplogroup probably came with Slavs.

[Dick]

I think almost all I1-Z63 among Serbs is relared with Macure.
Macure have a match in Belarus, and this is indication that their haplogroup probably came with Slavs.

I can’t see the I1 results on Serbian DNA project anymore but I don’t think so from what I remember. I’m z63 and not related to Macure but yes they are downstream from a Belarusian

[Pribislav]

I can’t see the I1 results on Serbian DNA project anymore but I don’t think so from what I remember. I’m z63 and not related to Macure but yes they are downstream from a Belarusian

You clade is maybe from Saxon miners. :)

Theories about origin of Macura clan macure.net/en/Home#!Genetika_TeorijeoPorekluPlemenaMacura

[Dick]

You clade is maybe from Saxon miners. :)

Theories about origin of Macura clan macure.net/en/Home#!Genetika_TeorijeoPorekluPlemenaMacurait is. 100% sure about it now

[Voskos]

What subclade is the T?

[Pribislav]

What subclade is the T?

T>T-L131

[Voskos]

I mean deep subclade. For example I'm T L131>L446>CTS11984>CTS8862>Z19945 .

[Pribislav]

I mean deep subclade. For example I'm T L131>L446>CTS11984>CTS8862>Z19945 .

I don't know. On "Serbian dna project" is written only T>T-L131.

[Pribislav]

What subclade is the T?

T haplogroup among Serbs is rarer than solar eclipse.

[Bosniensis]

T haplogroup among Serbs is rarer than solar eclipse.

OFFICIALLY,

We don't know who are Serbs or Balkan people in General before 10th century A.D. so we can't speculate about Haplogroup T and how it came here.

Balkan people are the only people ON EARTH who don't know their history before 10 century A.D.

[Pribislav]

OFFICIALLY,

We don't know who are Serbs or Balkan people in General before 10th century A.D. so we can't speculate about Haplogroup T and how it came here.

Balkan people are the only people ON EARTH who don't know their history before 10 century A.D.

What are you think about this total y dna picture of BiH Serbs?

[Bosniensis]

What are you think about this total y dna picture of BiH Serbs?

Typical western balkan, mix of more numerous paleo-balkan people with a significant eastern european ~20% (Poles, Ukrainian) Indo-Europeans.

If you look around, Serbs from BIH are no different to any other people on Balkans.. I2, J2 + R1a mix in general.

[Varda]

Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina from public base - 741 sample

I2 - 37.8%

R1a - 20.2%

E - 12.8%

J2 - 8.6%

I1 - 8.2%

N - 5.1%

R1b - 3%

G - 2.3%

Others - 2.1%

[Varda]

^^
It's very similar as on 677 samples https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1331.msg119488#msg119488

By regions largest number of samples is from Bosanska Krajina (western Bosnia) 337 of 741 or 45.5%, and the least is from central Bosnia 44 samples.

[Varda]

This will be interesting for Leto and Rethel.

The highest concentration of R1a among Serb in BiH is in Podrinje (area around Drina river in eastern Bosnia), and Pounje (area around Una river in western Bosnia).

From forum of Serbian dna project, last sentence https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1193.msg157663#msg157663
Haplogroup R1a is very widespread in area of central Pounje, same as in Lika. More significantly are represented branches R1a-Z280>Y2613, R1a-Z280>Y951, R1a-M458>YP417, R1a-M458>A11460

[Rethel]

This will be interesting for Leto and Rethel.

The highest concentration of R1a among Serb in BiH is in Podrinje (area around Drina river in eastern Bosnia), and Pounje (area around Una river in western Bosnia).

From forum of Serbian dna project, last sentence https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=1193.msg157663#msg157663
Haplogroup R1a is very widespread in area of central Pounje, same as in Lika. More significantly are represented branches R1a-Z280>Y2613, R1a-Z280>Y951, R1a-M458>YP417, R1a-M458>A11460

Where is this place?

[Varda]

Where is this place?

Around river Una in western Bosnia https://www.dinarskogorje.com/uploads/4/1/3/3/41338573/editor/_428381036.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q76zlRM.jpeg

[Varda]

Around river Una in western Bosnia https://www.dinarskogorje.com/uploads/4/1/3/3/41338573/editor/_428381036.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/q76zlRM.jpeg

The first thing that comes to my mind when i see this map is match of I2a with regions where Illyrians lived. :)

[Jaromir]

The first thing that comes to my mind when i see this map is match of I2a with regions where Illyrians lived. :)

summon Albanians :popcorn:

[Varda]

summon Albanians :popcorn:

Albanians are Illyrians as much as they are Serbs/Serbian influenced (Jovan I. Deretić).

[Rethel]

Albanians are Illyrians as much as they are Serbs/Serbian influenced (Jovan I. Deretić).

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Albania_kosovo_macedonia_6_8_century.png

[Varda]

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jovan_I._Deretić

He is R1a-Z280, and he claim origin from Illyrian tribe Deretini https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_ancient_tribes_in_Illyria#Deretini

[Varda]

Serbs from Bosnia and Herzegovina from public base - 741 sample

I2 - 37.8%

R1a - 20.2%

E - 12.8%

J2 - 8.6%

I1 - 8.2%

N - 5.1%

R1b - 3%

G - 2.3%

Others - 2.1%

Bosnian Serbs (without Herzegovinian Serbs) - 624 samples

I2 - 36.1%

R1a - 21.3%

E - 12.7%

J2 - 8.8%

I1 - 8%

N - 5.6%

R1b - 3%

G - 2.6%

Others - 1.9%

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

If you aren't E-V13 you're not Illyrian.

[Varda]

Bosnian Serbs (without Herzegovinian Serbs) - 624 samples

I2 - 36.1%

R1a - 21.3%

E - 12.7%

J2 - 8.8%

I1 - 8%

N - 5.6%

R1b - 3%

G - 2.6%

Others - 1.9%

Bosnian Serbs are 57.4% I2 + R1a, and Herzegovinian Serbs about 60.5% I2+ R1a (I2 about 45%, R1a 15.5%).

But interesting Bosnian Serbs are more northern and Slavic shifted autosomally than Herzegovinian Serbs, regardless Herzegovinians have for 3% more Slavic y dna.

Vahaduo averages.

Bosnian Serbs: Baltic 31.27 / North_Atlantic 24.92

Herzegovinian Serbs: Baltic 28.42 / North_Atlantic 24.24

[GalenStark]

If you aren't E-V13 you're not Illyrian.

Only confirmed Illyrian(or Proto-Illyrian) grave thus far was J2b-L283. Though, E-V13 appears in Iron Age in Albania. J2b-L283 and some R1b was found in Middle Bronze Age Albania.

An upcoming study will eventually reveal according to insiders.

[GalenStark]

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/74/Albania_kosovo_macedonia_6_8_century.png

Retarded map. Slavs didn't even settle in North West Albania where there's almost zero Toponyms of Slavic origin and next to zero I-Y3120 or R-M417.

[Rethel]

If you aren't E-V13 you're not Illyrian.

Illyrians were probably R1b, so...

[Varda]

Retarded map. Slavs didn't even settle in North West Albania where there's almost zero Toponyms of Slavic origin and next to zero I-Y3120 or R-M417.

Slavs settled in whole Albania in early middle age.

Serbian ruler Constantine Bodin was born in Skadar (Shkodër) which was Serbian capital in that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Bodin

Maja Jezercë is toponym of Serbian origin. Jezero in Serbian means lake, and Serbian name is Jezerski vrh (Lakes peak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maja_Jezercë

Shirokë is Serbian toponym. In Serbian Široko (pron. Shiroko) means wide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirokë,_Shkodër

In Serbian Shkodër was always known as Skadar. In western Serbia exist village Skadar founded by Serbian settlers from Skadar in present day Albanian in 1720 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadar,_Osečina

Ostrovicë is Slavic toponym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrovicë
There is many places with names Ostrovica in various Slavic countries, in Serbia 3.

Slavic toponyms in Albania 107574

[Varda]

Serb Konstantin Mihailović who was Ottoman soldier (Janissary) was born in village Ostrovica in Šumadija (central Serbia), he escaped from Ottomans to Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Mihailović

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstanty_z_Ostrowicy

[GalenStark]

Slavs settled in whole Albania in early middle age.

Serbian ruler Constantine Bodin was born in Skadar (Shkodër) which was Serbian capital in that time https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Constantine_Bodin

Maja Jezercë is toponym of Serbian origin. Jezero in Serbian means lake, and Serbian name is Jezerski vrh (Lakes peak https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maja_Jezercë

Shirokë is Serbian toponym. In Serbian Široko (pron. Shiroko) means wide https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shirokë,_Shkodër

In Serbian Shkodër was always known as Skadar. In western Serbia exist village Skadar founded by Serbian settlers from Skadar in present day Albanian in 1720 https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Skadar,_Osečina

Ostrovicë is Slavic toponym https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ostrovicë
There is many places with names Ostrovica in various Slavic countries, in Serbia 3.

Slavic toponyms in Albania 107574

Point is the map is incorrect. NW Albamia is dominated by E-V13, R-BY611, and J-L283. The area is well tested in both Albanian projects. With With exception of the city region of Shkoder, there's only been 1 R-M417 clan. And their cluster is rather young.

So whatever settlement occurred was temporary. It's also where the "cursed" mountains are located. Slavs did not really settle the Mountains. And certainly Y-DNA shows they barely had any settlements there.

Central and Southern Albania is a different story.

[Varda]

Point is the map is incorrect. NW Albamia is dominated by E-V13, R-BY611, and J-L283. The area is well tested in both Albanian projects. With With exception of the city region of Shkoder, there's only been 1 R-M417 clan. And their cluster is rather young.

So whatever settlement occurred was temporary. It's also where the "cursed" mountains are located. Slavs did not really settle the Mountains. And certainly Y-DNA shows they barely had any settlements there.

Central and Southern Albania is a different story.

Some Serb/Montenegrin brotherhoods of Old Montenegro who are I2a originated from wider Skadar area.

Serbian family Arnaut (Turkish name for Albanians) from Dalmatia is R1a-M458. Their deeper origin is probably somewhere from present day northern Albania.
Other Serbian family from Dalmatia with surname Deljo came from Skadar around 1680 according to sources, they not yet tested.

Serbian population of lowland of northern Albania migrated from there in the past because of Ottoman invasion and Albanian invasion from Prokletije on lowland. Still Serbs (especially in wider Skadar region) have survived until time on Enver Hoxha when they were forced to took Alabanian names and surnames.
In the last 10 years there is an awakening of Serbian national consciousness in Albania with the center in Skadar. In 1928 there was 65 000 Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, today their real number is about 30 000 (officially they almost doesn't exist) https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Serben_und_Montenegriner_in_Albanien

[Varda]

I didn't count this R1a Bosnian Serb in statistic (he is from Prijedor area in western Bosnia) https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=391.msg157879#msg157879

Does someone know more about this R1a-Z280>L11280>Y5647>YP611>YP3987?

[vbnetkhio]

I didn't count this R1a Bosnian Serb in statistic (he is from Prijedor area in western Bosnia) https://forum.poreklo.rs/index.php?topic=391.msg157879#msg157879

Does someone know more about this R1a-Z280>L11280>Y5647>YP611>YP3987?

That's the Avramijevštaci haplogorup. Years ago, one guy from Poreklo tested 100 or more people who celebrate his Slava (Avramijevdan) and they were mostly this haplogroup. some were also G2a ,i2a and others.
The statistics of Poreklo were skewed for some time because of this, it seemed that Serbs are 25% r1a.
On Eupedia it still says that YP3987 is the most common Serbian R1a subclade, but it's actually rare.

[Varda]

That's the Avramijevštak haplogorup. Years ago, one guy from Poreklo tested 100 or more people who celebrate his Slava (Avramijevdan) and they were mostly this haplogroup. some were also G2a ,i2a and others.
The statistics of Poreklo were skewed for some time because of this, it seemed that Serbs are 25% r1a.
On Eupedia it still says that YP3987 is the most common Serbian R1a subclade, but it's actually rare.

This one is pretty far away from Podrinje center of Avramijevštaci and he celebrate Đurđevdan.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3987/

[vbnetkhio]

This one is pretty far away from Podrinje center of Avramijevštaci and he celebrate Đurđevdan.

https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-YP3987/

Krajina Serbs have origins from East and Central Bosnia, so his ancestors could've come from there and changed his slava. But L1280 also exists in Southern Montenegro and Southeast Serbia.

[Varda]

Krajina Serbs have origins from East and Central Bosnia, so his ancestors could've come from there and changed his slava. But L1280 also exists in Southern Montenegro and Southeast Serbia.

I am pretty sure Avramijevštaci are natives of Podrinje since middle age. In the past they were connected with mining, and it was a trait of natives of Podrinje and eastern Bosnia. Settlers from Herzegovina and Montenegro had nothing to do with mining.

[Dušan]

@vbnetkhio, what is your haplogroup?

@varda, why don't you get tested by autosomal and Y-dna, since you are very interested in this?

[GalenStark]

Some Serb/Montenegrin brotherhoods of Old Montenegro who are I2a originated from wider Skadar area.

Serbian family Arnaut (Turkish name for Albanians) from Dalmatia is R1a-M458. Their deeper origin is probably somewhere from present day northern Albania.
Other Serbian family from Dalmatia with surname Deljo came from Skadar around 1680 according to sources, they not yet tested.

Serbian population of lowland of northern Albania migrated from there in the past because of Ottoman invasion and Albanian invasion from Prokletije on lowland. Still Serbs (especially in wider Skadar region) have survived until time on Enver Hoxha when they were forced to took Alabanian names and surnames.
In the last 10 years there is an awakening of Serbian national consciousness in Albania with the center in Skadar. In 1928 there was 65 000 Serbs and Montenegrins in Albania, today their real number is about 30 000 (officially they almost doesn't exist) https://de.zxc.wiki/wiki/Serben_und_Montenegriner_in_Albanien

Theres no national awakening in Albania of Serbianism. You spread alot of mumbo jumbo on here.

Obviously there's a minority in the Shkoder area. Perhaps it was larger at a time. I'm talking about the majority of the wider geographic area that are part of the county. Shkoder the city itself is obviously mixed. The tribal mountain regions which make up a larger part of the North West are practically devoid of Serbian haplotypes. Even the E-V13 ones. And a general lack of R1a/I2a.

Also, Arnaut as far as I'm aware do not identify as Albanian. Some users on Poreklo mentioned that Arnaut is also used to mean stubborn or hard headed. Which is what the M458 Arnaut claim.

Out of the 2 Albanian founder effects within M458, none of the Arnaut guys from Dalmatia belong to it.

They are likely YP417 or L260 from the conversations I've heard. If they're YP417 they likely belong to the typical Serbian clade downstream of it and were probably never Albanian to begin with.

On the other hand R-Y133361 and R-FT205939 are the only 2 Albanian founder effects within M458 with splits in the late antiquity and early medieval. There is a Greek on Ftdna including a French Canadian that belong to R-FT205939 not on Yfull. So far these branches are found in Eastern, Central and Southern Albanians. If they were implanted by Slavs it is likely those related to Bulgaro-Macedonian Slavs from the early medieval.

There is one Albanian belonging to A11460 but he's not close to the Serbs on Yfull. Another Albanian in R-Y18892 that may increase the tmrca in the next update. And 1 or 2 Albanians from the city of Shkodee in L260(not on yfull)

Oddly though, despite all the tested I-Y3120 Albanians, none of them seem to form a founder effect among Albanians yet. Their matches with Slavs seems very distant so far too. On average of 1000-1500 years.

[Rethel]

There is one Albanian belonging to A11460 but he's not close to the Serbs on Yfull.

How do you know this, if he is not on Yfull...?

[GalenStark]

How do you know this, if he is not on Yfull...?

He's part of our project. He could end up basal like the Poles. Or be upstream the Serbs. Predicted by STRs of course. He's for sure M458. Needs to do a wgs test to be sure where he falls and how far with everyone else.

[Leto]

@varda, why don't you get tested by autosomal and Y-dna, since you are very interested in this?
Exactly! He cares about Serbian tribes, regions and their supposed subclades but has not tested himself after all these years. At least MyHeritage (useful for Gedmatch and Y DNA predictor).

[GalenStark]

Exactly! He cares about Serbian tribes, regions and their supposed subclades but has not tested himself after all these years. At least MyHeritage (useful for Gedmatch and Y DNA predictor).

Usually fear is what prevents people from testing. Due to insecurities and preconceived notions of self. Probably would hate to be autosomally or Y-Chromosomally opposite of what he desires.

[Rethel]

Usually fear is what prevents people from testing. Due to insecurities and preconceived notions of self. Probably would hate to be autosomally or Y-Chromosomally opposite of what he desires.

But the longer he waits, and the longer he sticks to what he would want to be, then it will be worse finally to
accept the truth, when the truth will be known — when she will be different from this, what he thinks she is.

[CommonSense]

Serb Konstantin Mihailović who was Ottoman soldier (Janissary) was born in village Ostrovica in Šumadija (central Serbia), he escaped from Ottomans to Poland.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstantin_Mihailović

https://pl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Konstanty_z_Ostrowicy

This village he was from was actually near Novo Brdo. There was another village of the same name near Rudnik, hence the confusion in older historiography.

[CommonSense]

Theres no national awakening in Albania of Serbianism. You spread alot of mumbo jumbo on here.

Obviously there's a minority in the Shkoder area. Perhaps it was larger at a time. I'm talking about the majority of the wider geographic area that are part of the county. Shkoder the city itself is obviously mixed. The tribal mountain regions which make up a larger part of the North West are practically devoid of Serbian haplotypes. Even the E-V13 ones. And a general lack of R1a/I2a.

Also, Arnaut as far as I'm aware do not identify as Albanian. Some users on Poreklo mentioned that Arnaut is also used to mean stubborn or hard headed. Which is what the M458 Arnaut claim.

Out of the 2 Albanian founder effects within M458, none of the Arnaut guys from Dalmatia belong to it.

They are likely YP417 or L260 from the conversations I've heard. If they're YP417 they likely belong to the typical Serbian clade downstream of it and were probably never Albanian to begin with.

On the other hand R-Y133361 and R-FT205939 are the only 2 Albanian founder effects within M458 with splits in the late antiquity and early medieval. There is a Greek on Ftdna including a French Canadian that belong to R-FT205939 not on Yfull. So far these branches are found in Eastern, Central and Southern Albanians. If they were implanted by Slavs it is likely those related to Bulgaro-Macedonian Slavs from the early medieval.

There is one Albanian belonging to A11460 but he's not close to the Serbs on Yfull. Another Albanian in R-Y18892 that may increase the tmrca in the next update. And 1 or 2 Albanians from the city of Shkodee in L260(not on yfull)

Oddly though, despite all the tested I-Y3120 Albanians, none of them seem to form a founder effect among Albanians yet. Their matches with Slavs seems very distant so far too. On average of 1000-1500 years.

There's this prominent family of Albanised Serbs in Skadar to which this Albanian poet belonged to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risto_Siliqi

Interestingly he and his close family members all had Serbian first names despite identifying as Albanians. The reason I'm mentioning this is because a gradnson of his got his Y-DNA test done in the previous months and it turned out he's G-Y128028, just like myself! Recently tested positive for the SNP Y60799 on yseq which was up until now detected only among ethnic Serbs:

https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Stablog.jpg

[GalenStark]

There's this prominent family of Albanised Serbs in Skadar to which this Albanian poet belonged to:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Risto_Siliqi

Interestingly he and his close family members all had Serbian first names despite identifying as Albanians. The reason I'm mentioning this is because a gradnson of his got his Y-DNA test done in the previous months and it turned out he's G-Y128028, just like myself! Recently tested positive for the SNP Y60799 on yseq which was up until now detected only among ethnic Serbs:

https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2021/04/Stablog.jpg

Interesting. Yea, in the city of Shkoder itself, there are people of mixed origins, or identifying Albanian when their ancestors are Montenegrin/Serbian.

Actually, alot of Enver Hoxhas closest supporters among Albanians during the communist regime were both Albanians of Montenegrin/Serbian minority descent in Shkodra, and Albanians originating from Greek and Bulgarian minorities in the South.

Originally your haplogroup was Celtic though, no? Seems that way from upstream branches.

[CommonSense]

Interesting. Yea, in the city of Shkoder itself, there are people of mixed origins, or identifying Albanian when their ancestors are Montenegrin/Serbian.

Actually, alot of Enver Hoxhas closest supporters among Albanians during the communist regime were both Albanians of Montenegrin/Serbian minority descent in Shkodra, and Albanians originating from Greek and Bulgarian minorities in the South.

Originally your haplogroup was Celtic though, no? Seems that way from upstream branches.

Yes, likely from some Roman colonist(s) from the Alps considering our branch was found among one Italian from Trentino.

[Cleitus]

Illyrians were probably R1b, so...Proto Illyrians were R1b and J2b L-283. The main Haplogroups among Illyrians were E-V13 + R1b-L23 + J2b L-283 the holy Albanian Trinity.

Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk

[Rethel]

Proto Illyrians were R1b and J2b L-283. The main Haplogroups among Illyrians were E-V13 + R1b-L23 + J2b L-283 Albanian

And maybe many, many others, but the original one was R1b, maybe with very very tiny R1a minority.
Albanian hgs on the other hand, are a product of some next 3000 years until now, so: irrelevant.

[Cleitus]

And maybe many, many others, but the original one was R1b, maybe with very very tiny R1a minority.
Albanian hgs on the other hand, are a product of some next 3000 years until now, so: irrelevant.

Illyrians were the product of Indo-European invaders mixing with the local population so whats your point? Proto Illyrians that arrived on the Balkan were R1b-L23 and J2b-L283, R1a wasn't present.
https://i.imgur.com/x29QxFt.png

[Bart0s]

So how come South Slavs have no J2b2-L283 or R1b-Z2103 associated with Illyrians but only E-V13 ?

[Bart0s]

Proto Illyrians were R1b and J2b L-283. The main Haplogroups among Illyrians were E-V13 + R1b-L23 + J2b L-283 the holy Albanian Trinity.

Gesendet von meinem MI 9 mit Tapatalk

Proto-Illyrians were R1b-Z2103 this is also the R1b we see in Vucedol, Maros, Northern Macedonia Iron Age and Albania Iron Age and even among the Iapygians. J2b2-L283 along the adriatic seems to be a founder effect from few Illyrian tribes. I'd be interested to see what Illyrian tribes in Bosnia / Herzegovina and Western/Central Serbia turn out or what proto-Illyrian cultures like Bela Crkva and more Vucedol Bronze Age samples and Iron Age Glasinac Mati.

R-L2 found in Northern Croatia from Late Bronze Age represents proto-Italic invaders and not Illyrians. It's an Italic marker. And most likely Proto-Venetic / Histrians / Liburnians , the latters origins are disputed. Slovenia wasn't compact Illyrian territory but a mixed area.

[Frotous]

So how come South Slavs have no J2b2-L283 or R1b-Z2103 associated with Illyrians but only E-V13 ?


On Poreklo (Serbian DNA project) there is multiple Serbs tested with J2b-L283 and R1b-Z2103, I’m personally R1b-Z2103. These Serbs have Illyrian origin besides their high Slavic. It seems that Serbs are autosmally majority Slavic with Illyrian and Thracian input

[Pepa]

On Poreklo (Serbian DNA project) there is multiple Serbs tested with J2b-L283 and R1b-Z2103, I’m personally R1b-Z2103. These Serbs have Illyrian origin besides their high Slavic. It seems that Serbs are autosmally majority Slavic with Illyrian and Thracian input

Ev13 is stronger than r1b

[hazmatnik]

Ev13 is stronger than r1b

E-V13 is among top 3 most frequent haplogroups among Serbs. Frotous displays syndrome which is present among many R1b-Z2103 Serbs on Poreklo. Instead of diving into history and causes why it is like it is, he is obsessed with Albanians and their phenotypes and can't miss opportunity to spit on them every time he has a chance.

[Pepa]

E-V13 is among top 3 most frequent haplogroups among Serbs. Frotous displays syndrome which is present among many R1b-Z2103 Serbs on Poreklo. Instead of diving into history and causes why it is like it is, he is obsessed with Albanians and their phenotypes and can't miss opportunity to spit on them every time he has a chance.

idk why i read it as displays down syndrome lmao.

[hazmatnik]

idk why i read it as displays down syndrome lmao.

Its called BY611 syndrome, similar to rabies. Most of the times incurable.

[Frotous]

E-V13 is among top 3 most frequent haplogroups among Serbs. Frotous displays syndrome which is present among many R1b-Z2103 Serbs on Poreklo. Instead of diving into history and causes why it is like it is, he is obsessed with Albanians and their phenotypes and can't miss opportunity to spit on them every time he has a chance.

Wtf are you talking about, I never said EV13 isn’t top 3 most common haplos among Serbs? I was simply talking about R1b and J2b among Serbs because they are less common. You are talking with that dumb retarted Anti-Serb Pepa, what is wrong with you man:picard1:

[Frotous]

Yes EV13 is the third most common haplogroup among Serbs, never said it wasn’t

[hazmatnik]

Wtf are you talking about, I never said EV13 isn’t top 3 most common haplos among Serbs? I was simply talking about R1b and J2b among Serbs because they are less common. You are talking with that dumb retarted Anti-Serb Pepa, what is wrong with you man:picard1:

If you don't see irony and satire in my posts i can't help you and Pepa is normal unless provoked. I understand him, i react same way.

[Frotous]

Funny considering what that retard has posted on here about Serbs, he also isn’t smart he posted a thread about if you can have children with a women who has the same y-dna as you :picard1:, what was the irony in your post?

[hazmatnik]

what was the irony in your post? If you didn't see the irony that means you are not so far away from your BY611 cousins mentally.

[Frotous]

Mhm my DNA results say I have 0% Greek/Albanian DNA and out of my top 30 closest modern populations on G25 calc Albania isn’t on the list and Serbia is top of the list. What are you trying to prove exactly and why are you a “SERB” defending an Albanian dude who is mentally ill and makes fun of Serbs on here all the time.

[hazmatnik]

Being dumb is not exclusive right of one side. What did you contribute here to Serbia except trying to laugh at some phenotypes of Albanians and people of Sandzak?

[BoredBalkanMan]

I may have the I-P109 haplogroup based on cladefinder