Balkan-Ottoman Romani DNA results

[Chris00009]

Hello everybody,

I am new on the forum. Have been into genetics ever since I took a DNA test I found out that I am pretty mixed :D

So, long story short - I am an Ottoman Romani from the Balkans. My tribe is called Yerli/Arli/Erlides which in Turkish translates to "native or local" as our ancestors became sedentary in the regions of the Balkans and Western Anatolia since their early arrival and are known as Turkish Roma. Today most of us are pretty assimilated and unrecognizable from the locals. Prior to taking a DNA test I always assumed I I would score some sort of Western Asian or Balkan but I was quite surprised by the South Asian as I always assume the Indian origin was a myth.

Well now I clearly know that I have Balkan Middle Eastern and Indian admixture, but various companies display different results and my question is what part of me is South Asian and etc. Also, I would like to know what ethnicities I am mixed with. Do I really have Turkish admix as my tribe suggests or perhaps I have typical Balkan Roma admix? Or why a Balkan-Ottoman Romani would score around 10% Sardinian both on Myheretige and DNAland?

I would be happy to hear what you think.


Eurogenes k13

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 29.44
2 East_Med 18.89
3 West_Asian 17.73
4 West_Med 15.29
5 Baltic 8.87
6 Red_Sea 4.16
7 North_Atlantic 3.84
8 Oceanian 0.86
9 East_Asian 0.59
10 Siberian 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Afghan_Tadjik 26.01
2 Pathan 26.64
3 Afghan_Pashtun 26.76
4 Turkmen 27.04
5 Tadjik 27.23
6 Turkish 27.55
7 Azeri 27.58
8 Iranian 28.46
9 Punjabi_Jat 28.69
10 Burusho 29.08
11 East_Sicilian 30.13
12 Central_Greek 30.22
13 Kurdish 30.29
14 Greek_Thessaly 30.36
15 Sindhi 30.64
16 Syrian 30.9
17 South_Italian 30.98
18 Ashkenazi 31.17
19 Kalash 31.2
20 Lebanese_Muslim 31.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.2% Central_Greek + 40.8% Dusadh @ 6.44
2 50.9% Algerian_Jewish + 49.1% Kshatriya @ 6.54

[Leto]

Hi, welcome! I would say your FTDNA results seem to be the most accurate. You're a mix of Indian, Middle Eastern and Southern European mainly.
Can you add Harappa and Dodecad K12b too?

[Chris00009]

Hi, welcome! I would say your FTDNA results seem to be the most accurate. You're a mix of Indian, Middle Eastern and Southern European mainly.
Can you add Harappa and Dodecad K12b too?

Dodecad 12b

# Population Percent
1 Caucasus 25.75
2 South_Asian 23.67
3 Gedrosia 15.3
4 Atlantic_Med 13.65
5 Southwest_Asian 11.22
6 North_European 9.18
7 Southeast_Asian 0.97
8 East_Asian 0.26

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) 20.3
2 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 25.37
3 Iranians (Behar) 26.97
4 Iranian (Dodecad) 27.5
5 Turkish (Dodecad) 28.74
6 Turks (Behar) 28.89
7 Kurd (Dodecad) 29.25
8 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 29.52
9 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 29.63
10 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 29.81
11 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 29.94
12 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 29.94
13 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.06
14 Syrians (Behar) 30.07
15 Lebanese (Behar) 30.11
16 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 30.17
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 30.29
18 Sicilian (Dodecad) 30.83
19 Greek (Dodecad) 31.88
20 Jordanians (Behar) 31.96

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.3% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 38.7% Greek (Dodecad) @ 3.63
2 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.2
3 53.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 46.6% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.26
4 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.47
5 52.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 47.2% Cochin_Jews (Behar) @ 4.48
6 61% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.55
7 62.3% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.7% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.6
8 59.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.61
9 59.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 40.9% Tharus (Metspalu) @ 4.63
10 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% INS30 (SGVP) @ 4.64
11 61.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 38.2% Velamas (Metspalu) @ 4.68
12 63.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 36.6% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.73
13 60.2% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 39.8% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 4.79
14 59.6% Bnei_Menashe_Jews (Behar) + 40.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 4.86
15 60.9% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 39.1% Muslim (Metspalu) @ 4.91
16 62.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 37.1% Kurumba (Metspalu) @ 4.93
17 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.6% Kanjars (Metspalu) @ 4.95
18 62.7% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.3% Uttar_Pradesh_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 4.95
19 60.5% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 39.5% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.95
20 61.1% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 38.9% GIH30 (Dodecad) @ 4.96

Harappa

# Population Percent
1 Caucasian 25.51
2 S-Indian 23.4
3 Baloch 16.5
4 Mediterranean 12.77
5 NE-Euro 10.19
6 SW-Asian 9.33
7 SE-Asian 1.2
8 American 0.52
9 Papuan 0.43
10 NE-Asian 0.07
11 E-African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 romanian-b (behar) 5.49
2 bene-israel-jew (behar) 18.14
3 pashtun (harappa) 21.73
4 turkmen (yunusbayev) 22.85
5 turk-aydin (hodoglugil) 25.01
6 iraqi-arab (harappa) 25.64
7 turkish (harappa) 25.77
8 iranian (behar) 25.77
9 tajik (yunusbayev) 25.83
10 kashmiri (harappa) 25.91
11 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 25.95
12 iranian (harappa) 25.95
13 kurd (harappa) 26.09
14 up-muslim (harappa) 26.23
15 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 26.71
16 azeri (harappa) 27.02
17 ashkenazy-jew (behar) 27.07
18 turk-istanbul (hodoglugil) 27.09
19 turk-kayseri (hodoglugil) 27.51
20 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 27.54

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.9% romanian-b (behar) + 21.1% bene-israel-jew (behar) @ 2.67
2 60.7% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 39.3% ashkenazi (harappa) @ 3.28
3 57.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 42.1% ap-hyderabad (harappa) @ 3.44
4 87.5% romanian-b (behar) + 12.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.59
5 64.3% bene-israel-jew (behar) + 35.7% tuscan (1000genomes) @ 3.6
6 51.5% ashkenazi (harappa) + 48.5% cochin-jew (behar) @ 3.61
7 61.9% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.1% tamil-nadu-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 3.66
8 86.3% romanian-b (behar) + 13.7% gujarati-muslim (harappa) @ 3.67
9 62.5% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37.5% kurumba (metspalu) @ 3.78
10 61.7% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.3% velama (reich) @ 3.78
11 63.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 36.9% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 3.84
12 59.1% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.9% tamil (harappa) @ 3.89
13 59.8% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 40.2% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 3.93
14 61.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 38.8% sinhalese (harappa) @ 3.94
15 90.4% romanian-b (behar) + 9.6% kerala-christian (harappa) @ 3.95
16 64.2% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 35.8% vysya (reich) @ 3.97
17 63% ashkenazy-jew (behar) + 37% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 3.99
18 89.8% romanian-b (behar) + 10.2% sindhi (hgdp) @ 4
19 91% romanian-b (behar) + 9% kerala-nair (harappa) @ 4
20 91.7% romanian-b (behar) + 8.3% ap-reddy (harappa) @ 4

Glad to be here! FTDNA was an upload from ancestry. There I score highest Euro and lowest MENA :D I like the new beta update of 23andme (as the previous one gave trace amount of SA to Romani and huge amount of MENA but now seems ok).

[Leto]

What is your Y-DNA? And mtDNA.

I believe puntDNAL K13 has a Romani reference.

[Chris00009]

What is your Y-DNA? And mtDNA.

I believe puntDNAL K13 has a Romani reference.

Harrapa also has it is called romanian-b. Admixture works fine on Gedmatch but when it gets to oracles it is all over the place haha. Y-DNA` - H-M2914 and mtDNA - U3b1

[Leto]

Harrapa also has it is called romanian-b. Admixture works fine on Gedmatch but when it gets to oracles it is all over the place haha. Y-DNA` - H-M2914 and mtDNA - U3b1
Share punt K13 too.
Your haplogroups are very Indian. Do you look South Asian?

[Chris00009]

Share punt K13 too.
Your haplogroups are very Indian. Do you look South Asian?

Punt k13

Population Percent
1 West_Asia 26.74
2 South_Asia 24.99
3 SW_Europe 22.11
4 SW_Asia 11.67
5 NE_Europe 10.95
6 SE_Asia 1.29
7 NE_Asia 1.04
8 Oceania 0.75
9 Siberia 0.4
10 Americas 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romani 11.12
2 Pakistan_Pashtun 20.97
3 Afghan_Pashtun 21.36
4 Tadjik 21.81
5 Pathan 22.03
6 Turkish 22.22
7 Sindhi 22.56
8 Turkish_Aydin 22.57
9 Turkish_Kayseri 22.91
10 Iranian 23.16
11 Balochi 23.27
12 Burusho 23.46
13 Azerbaijan_Azeri 23.91
14 Brahui 24.18
15 Afghan_Uzbeki 24.24
16 Kumyk 24.33
17 Balkar 24.5
18 Kurdish 24.96
19 Makrani 24.98
20 Dagestan_Azeri 25.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% Ashkenazy_Jew + 41.8% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 1.39
2 59.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.7% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.48
3 57.8% Sephardic_Jew + 42.2% UP_Muslim @ 1.52
4 59.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.7% Kurumba @ 2.08
5 57.9% Italian_Sicilian + 42.1% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 2.14
6 59% Italian_Sicilian + 41% Piramalai_Kallars @ 2.32
7 54.1% Sephardic_Jew + 45.9% Bengali @ 2.33
8 58.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 41.7% UP_Muslim @ 2.42
9 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jew + 38.6% Sakilli @ 2.43
10 58.9% Sephardic_Jew + 41.1% Piramalai_Kallars @ 2.56
11 59.2% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.8% Chenchus @ 2.63
12 57.7% Sephardic_Jew + 42.3% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 2.64
13 58% Italian_Sicilian + 42% UP_Muslim @ 2.67
14 53.5% Sephardic_Jew + 46.5% Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin @ 2.68
15 58.8% Sephardic_Jew + 41.2% Kurumba @ 2.77
16 59% Italian_Sicilian + 41% Kurumba @ 2.78
17 58% Ashkenazy_Jew + 42% Velamas @ 2.85
18 58.8% Sephardic_Jew + 41.2% Chenchus @ 3.06
19 57.7% Italian_Sicilian + 42.3% Velamas @ 3.07
20 61.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 38.4% North_Kannadi @ 3.17

Yeah I know my Ydna is very Indian and one of the most frequent for Romani. No the SA is not visible on me. In my family and tribe in general the Euro-MENA phenotypes are the majority.

From Roman Medieval Calc G25:


fit": 1.7643

DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o: 32.5
GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1: 17.5
ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA: 15
SLAVIC_Avar_Hungary_Szolad: 11.67
LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE: 10.83
ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA: 7.5
ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA: 5

[Impaler]

Punt k13

Population Percent
1 West_Asia 26.74
2 South_Asia 24.99
3 SW_Europe 22.11
4 SW_Asia 11.67
5 NE_Europe 10.95
6 SE_Asia 1.29
7 NE_Asia 1.04
8 Oceania 0.75
9 Siberia 0.4
10 Americas 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romani 11.12
2 Pakistan_Pashtun 20.97
3 Afghan_Pashtun 21.36
4 Tadjik 21.81
5 Pathan 22.03
6 Turkish 22.22
7 Sindhi 22.56
8 Turkish_Aydin 22.57
9 Turkish_Kayseri 22.91
10 Iranian 23.16
11 Balochi 23.27
12 Burusho 23.46
13 Azerbaijan_Azeri 23.91
14 Brahui 24.18
15 Afghan_Uzbeki 24.24
16 Kumyk 24.33
17 Balkar 24.5
18 Kurdish 24.96
19 Makrani 24.98
20 Dagestan_Azeri 25.53

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 58.2% Ashkenazy_Jew + 41.8% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 1.39
2 59.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.7% Piramalai_Kallars @ 1.48
3 57.8% Sephardic_Jew + 42.2% UP_Muslim @ 1.52
4 59.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.7% Kurumba @ 2.08
5 57.9% Italian_Sicilian + 42.1% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 2.14
6 59% Italian_Sicilian + 41% Piramalai_Kallars @ 2.32
7 54.1% Sephardic_Jew + 45.9% Bengali @ 2.33
8 58.3% Ashkenazy_Jew + 41.7% UP_Muslim @ 2.42
9 61.4% Ashkenazy_Jew + 38.6% Sakilli @ 2.43
10 58.9% Sephardic_Jew + 41.1% Piramalai_Kallars @ 2.56
11 59.2% Ashkenazy_Jew + 40.8% Chenchus @ 2.63
12 57.7% Sephardic_Jew + 42.3% Tamil_Nadu_Caste @ 2.64
13 58% Italian_Sicilian + 42% UP_Muslim @ 2.67
14 53.5% Sephardic_Jew + 46.5% Tamil_Nadu_Brahmin @ 2.68
15 58.8% Sephardic_Jew + 41.2% Kurumba @ 2.77
16 59% Italian_Sicilian + 41% Kurumba @ 2.78
17 58% Ashkenazy_Jew + 42% Velamas @ 2.85
18 58.8% Sephardic_Jew + 41.2% Chenchus @ 3.06
19 57.7% Italian_Sicilian + 42.3% Velamas @ 3.07
20 61.6% Ashkenazy_Jew + 38.4% North_Kannadi @ 3.17

Yeah I know my Ydna is very Indian and one of the most frequent for Romani. No the SA is not visible on me. In my family and tribe in general the Euro-MENA phenotypes are the majority.

From Roman Medieval Calc G25:


fit": 1.7643

DRAVIDIAN_Saidu_Sharif_IA_o: 32.5
GRECO-ROMAN_Italy_Medieval_Collegno_o1: 17.5
ILLYRIAN-THRACIAN_Balkans_IA: 15
SLAVIC_Avar_Hungary_Szolad: 11.67
LEVANTINE_Levant_LBN_MA_NE: 10.83
ANATOLIAN_Anatolia_IA: 7.5
ARIAN_PAK_Swat_Butkara_IA: 5

Yes, I can confirm that you don't look Indian. When I first saw your pic I would have never guessed you as a Romani. :)

You remind me of this guy:

http://i.imgur.com/mdihSM4.jpg (https://imgur.com/mdihSM4)

[Chris00009]

Yes, I can confirm that you don't look Indian. When I first saw your pic I would have never guessed you as a Romani. :)

You remind me of this guy:

http://i.imgur.com/mdihSM4.jpg (https://imgur.com/mdihSM4)

Hi dude .. thanks for the confirmation [emoji1]yeah that guy on the pic has some resemblance. [emoji106]


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[Chris00009]

Does anybody know how to correctly measure the SA genes because on tests it varies a lot ?:P

RR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838

[Chris00009]

Bump


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mortimer]

Welcome to the Forum. It is cool to have another Romani around who is interested in geneaology, anthropology, genetic ancestry etc.

[Mortimer]

Cool Results my friend. You seem to have the new 23andMe beta update. Cool.

[Thambi]

Does anybody know how to correctly measure the SA genes because on tests it varies a lot ?:P

RR_scaled,0.091058,0.057885,-0.078818,0.01938,-0.022773,0.015897,-0.00329,0.003923,0.020248,0.02041,-0.000487,-0.001349,0.000892,0.012937,-0.013843,-0.001856,0.011735,0.001774,0.003142,0.007379,-0.002121,-0.003462,-0.001972,-0.003374,-0.000838

you're about 1/3 south asian, almost similar to Romas in europe but with more turkish shift. chamar is the caste that most gypsies likely originated from in south asia. They're a group from Punjab and Rajasthan area.

"Custom:RR_scaled",
"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

"Roma:Average",
"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0

[Leto]

you're about 1/3 south asian, almost similar to Romas in europe but with more turkish shift. chamar is the caste that most gypsies likely originated from in south asia. They're a group from Punjab and Rajasthan area.

"Custom:RR_scaled",
"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

"Roma:Average",
"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0
Nice modeling. But Chamar still doesn't mean ASI, does it?

[Bornoz]

Welcome to the forum bro :wave
Lack of Eastern Eurasian (Siberian+East Asian) admixture tells us that you don't have Turkish mixture. There are Turks that do not have Eastern Asian admixture too but they are far from the place where you are from.

[Chris00009]

Welcome to the Forum. It is cool to have another Romani around who is interested in geneaology, anthropology, genetic ancestry etc.

It is nice to be here. Thanks :)

[Chris00009]

you're about 1/3 south asian, almost similar to Romas in europe but with more turkish shift. chamar is the caste that most gypsies likely originated from in south asia. They're a group from Punjab and Rajasthan area.

"Custom:RR_scaled",
"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

"Roma:Average",
"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0

Thanks for the runs bro. I also believe that I am about 30-40% South Asian with the AASI being at 10-15% as the Indian populations that Romani derive from are 1500 years old and also tribal :P

Here is a closer fit:

"fit": 1.8972,
"Punjabi_Lahore": 38.33,
"Greek": 36.67,
"Iraqi_Jew": 25,

[Chris00009]

Nice modeling. But Chamar still doesn't mean ASI, does it?

Nah .. Chamar predominately ASI shifted .. but I am also high in IranN so maybe Rajasthani/Punjabi average group would fit better as ancestral group.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Chris00009]

Welcome to the forum bro :wave
Lack of Eastern Eurasian (Siberian+East Asian) admixture tells us that you don't have Turkish mixture. There are Turks that do not have Eastern Asian admixture too but they are far from the place where you are from.

It's nice to be here bro. Thanks.

Well, I agree on the fact that the most recent ancestry from Turkey would be from the West. I do have Turkish ethnic matches and many of my ancestors were born in Turkey. Recently received my Ethnogene results and here are my results:

Southern Asian 43.9%
Punjabi 12.0% (Eastern Punjab)
Rajastani 8.2% (Central Rajastan)
Pathan 7.2% (Afghanistan - Ghazni, Kandahar) & Northwestern Pakistan
Kannada 7.0% (Southwestern India, Karnataka)
Sindhi 4.7% (Pakistan Sindh)
Bhil 3.4% (Gujarat)
Uttar Pradesh 1.4% (Southeastern UP)

Middle Eastern 31.9%
Turkish 17.2% (Western Turkey, Marmara, Sakarya, Antalya, Adana)
Iranian 10.5% (Eastern Iran)
Dom 2.9% (Central Iraq, Western Syria, Central Turkey)
Syrian 1.0% (Southwest)

Southeastern European 23.1%
Bulgarian 19.0% (Northeastern)
Greek 3.1% (Thessaly, Western Macedonia)
Bosnian 1.0%


Central Asian 1.1%
Pamiri 1.1% (Eastern Tajikistan)

[Chris00009]

Does anyone have an idea of why I score about 10% Sardinian on Myheretige and DNALand?

DNALand:

Dravidian 24%
Gujarati 11%
Balkan 26%
Central Indoeuropean 14%
Sardinian 12%
Arab/Egyptian 8.5%
Ambiguous 2.1%
Mediterranean Islander 1.4%
Ambiguous 1.2%

MyHeritage:

South Asian
42.3%
West Asia
14.4%
Europe
37.6%
South Europe
34.2%
Greek and South Italian
23.7%
Sardinian
10.5%
East Europe
3.4%
Baltic
3.4%
Middle East
5.7%

[Chris00009]

Bumper :D

[Leto]

Does anyone have an idea of why I score about 10% Sardinian on Myheretige and DNALand?

DNALand:

Dravidian 24%
Gujarati 11%
Balkan 26%
Central Indoeuropean 14%
Sardinian 12%
Arab/Egyptian 8.5%
Ambiguous 2.1%
Mediterranean Islander 1.4%
Ambiguous 1.2%

MyHeritage:

South Asian
42.3%
West Asia
14.4%
Europe
37.6%
South Europe
34.2%
Greek and South Italian
23.7%
Sardinian
10.5%
East Europe
3.4%
Baltic
3.4%
Middle East
5.7%
That's strange. Sardinian is a specifically Western Med component.
By the way, what are your MDLP K23b results?

[Leto]

Yes, I can confirm that you don't look Indian. When I first saw your pic I would have never guessed you as a Romani. :)

You remind me of this guy:

http://i.imgur.com/mdihSM4.jpg (https://imgur.com/mdihSM4)
But the guy is fully European, isn't he?

[Impaler]

But the guy is fully European, isn't he?

Yes, he is Bosnian.

[Chris00009]

That's strange. Sardinian is a specifically Western Med component.
By the way, what are your MDLP K23b results?

Yeah I know that's why I wonder. On 24genetics I get Sardinian too [emoji1]

That's my MDLP 23 what do you think? :P

#PopulationPercent
1Caucasian29.53
2South_Indian27.38
3South_Central_Asian11.85
4European_Early_Farmers10.33
5European_Hunters_Gatherers8.66
6Near_East6.69
7North_African2.38
8Tungus-Altaic0.8
9Paleo_Siberian0.71
10Melano_Polynesian0.65
11Austronesian0.4
12Arctic0.2
13Australoid0.18
14Ancestral_Altaic0.14
15Archaic_Human0.11

Single Population Sharing:

#Population (source)Distance
1Roma_Bulgarian ( )9.92
2Roma_Slovenian ( )10.99
3Roma_BH ( )11.45
4Roma ( )13.56
5Roma_Macedonian ( )14.39
6Parsi ( )24.22
7Romanian ( )26.76
8Mumbai_Jew ( )27.3
9Iranian ( )28.43
10Pakistani_Pushtun ( )29.06
11Czech ( )29.2
12Ukrainian_West ( )30.07
13Slovak ( )30.1
14Cochin_Jew ( )30.25
15Russian_South ( )30.28
16Moksha ( )30.31
17Ukrainian_Center ( )30.38
18Ukrainian ( )30.41
19Hungarian_Budapest ( )30.47
20Ukrainian_East ( )30.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source)Secondary Population (source)Distance
1 66.3%Azov_Greek ( )+33.7%TN_Dalit ( )@2.32
2 66.2%Azov_Greek ( )+33.8%Hallaki ( )@2.4
3 66.2%Azov_Greek ( )+33.8%Mala ( )@2.55
4 65.4%Azov_Greek ( )+34.6%Hakkipikki ( )@2.56
5 66.7%Azov_Greek ( )+33.3%Madiga ( )@2.65
6 65.9%Azov_Greek ( )+34.1%Kurumba ( )@2.65
7 65.6%Azov_Greek ( )+34.4%Chamar ( )@3.13
8 82.2%Roma_BH ( )+17.8%Sindhi ( )@3.21
9 76.3%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+23.7%Cochin_Jew ( )@3.28
10 65.5%Azov_Greek ( )+34.5%Sakilli ( )@3.33
11 64.8%Azov_Greek ( )+35.2%Chenchu ( )@3.37
12 84.2%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+15.8%GujaratiA_GIH ( )@3.55
13 82.6%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+17.4%Jatt_Muslim ( )@3.59
14 64.7%Azov_Greek ( )+35.3%Bhil ( )@3.64
15 84.6%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+15.4%Sindhi ( )@3.64
16 78.9%Roma_BH ( )+21.1%Pathan ( )@3.68
17 81%Roma_BH ( )+19%Burusho ( )@3.72
18 83.5%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+16.5%Pakistani ( )@3.77
19 74.7%Roma_Bulgarian ( )+25.3%Mumbai_Jew ( )@3.8
20 80.7%Roma_BH ( )+19.3%Punjabi_Gujjar ( )@3.81



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[Chris00009]

But the guy is fully European, isn't he?

Maybe sometime later I will do a classification post but as Impaler said phenotypically I am not different than an average Balkan/Western Turk.


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[JosephK]

Does anyone have an idea of why I score about 10% Sardinian on Myheretige and DNALand?



Hi there!

Welcome and great to see you on the TA!

My father's mother was Hungarian Roma, and my DNA results are all over the place... I often get Sardinian, Italian, and Iberian results without any known or even imagined Mediterranean ancestry. When you're as mixed as I am, these calculators aren't very helpful, but it seems like the mix from being Roma confuse many calculators into thinking we're Meds...

For instance:
My puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle:
1 85.4% Czech + 14.6% Sardinian @ 1.73
2 61.6% Icelandic + 38.4% Spanish_Southwest @ 1.73
3 75% Czech + 25% French_South @ 1.8
4 69.8% Czech + 30.2% Spanish_Northeast @ 1.82
etc...

My Lukasz k15 Oracle:
2 59.57% Russian_Ryazan + 40.43% Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.845
3 92.77% Volga-German + 7.23% Roma @ 2.851
...
8 88.48% Volga-German + 11.52% GreeceThessaly @ 2.917
9 89.26% Volga-German + 10.74% Italian_North @ 2.926
10 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% Ag-Sicily @ 2.933
11 91.21% Volga-German + 8.79% Sicilian_Trapani @ 2.937
12 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% Italian_South @ 2.944
...
37 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% C-Sicily @ 3.053
38 93.16% Volga-German + 6.84% ItalyJew @ 3.061
39 91.99% German + 8.01% Roma @ 3.063

[Chris00009]

Hi there!

Welcome and great to see you on the TA!

My father's mother was Hungarian Roma, and my DNA results are all over the place... I often get Sardinian, Italian, and Iberian results without any known or even imagined Mediterranean ancestry. When you're as mixed as I am, these calculators aren't very helpful, but it seems like the mix from being Roma confuse many calculators into thinking we're Meds...

For instance:
My puntDNAL K12 Modern Oracle:
1 85.4% Czech + 14.6% Sardinian @ 1.73
2 61.6% Icelandic + 38.4% Spanish_Southwest @ 1.73
3 75% Czech + 25% French_South @ 1.8
4 69.8% Czech + 30.2% Spanish_Northeast @ 1.82
etc...

My Lukasz k15 Oracle:
2 59.57% Russian_Ryazan + 40.43% Spanish_Valencia_IBS @ 2.845
3 92.77% Volga-German + 7.23% Roma @ 2.851
...
8 88.48% Volga-German + 11.52% GreeceThessaly @ 2.917
9 89.26% Volga-German + 10.74% Italian_North @ 2.926
10 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% Ag-Sicily @ 2.933
11 91.21% Volga-German + 8.79% Sicilian_Trapani @ 2.937
12 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% Italian_South @ 2.944
...
37 91.99% Volga-German + 8.01% C-Sicily @ 3.053
38 93.16% Volga-German + 6.84% ItalyJew @ 3.061
39 91.99% German + 8.01% Roma @ 3.063

Hello! It's good to be here. :)

Well in your profile description the listed ethnicities can sometimes be displayed as Northern + Med on gedmatch. People who are in fact fully Balkan can also be portrayed as Belarusian + Cypriot. But yeah oracles do not work well for mixed people. Romani have East and West Med ancestry thus this adds up to the one you have from your non-Roma ancestors.

Do you also get Sardinian on MyHeritage and DNAland?

[JosephK]

Hello! It's good to be here. :)

Well in your profile description the listed ethnicities can sometimes be displayed as Northern + Med on gedmatch. People who are in fact fully Balkan can also be portrayed as Belarusian + Cypriot. But yeah oracles do not work well for mixed people. Romani have East and West Med ancestry thus this adds up to the one you have from your non-Roma ancestors.

Do you also get Sardinian on MyHeritage and DNAland?

I don't get Sardinian on DNAland, but I do get a wee-bit of Southwest Europe and North Africa:
North Slavic 43%
NW European 30%
Balkan 13%
Ashkenazi 9.3%
Ambiguous 1.8% (map shows India)
Southwestern Europeam 1.1%
North African 1.1%

..but one of my cousins (Roma-side) get a little Sardinian and Mediterranean Islander:
North Slavic 46%
Northwest European 36%
Southwestern European 5.4%
Sardinian 2.7%
Mediterranean Islander 6.9%
Kalash 1.5%
Ambiguous 1.2%

MyHeritage is pretty uninteresting and not very accurate:
East Europe 58.8%
Balkan 9.3%
Irish, Scottish, Welsh 31.9% (WAY too high!)

[Chris00009]

I don't get Sardinian on DNAland, but I do get a wee-bit of Southwest Europe and North Africa:
North Slavic 43%
NW European 30%
Balkan 13%
Ashkenazi 9.3%
Ambiguous 1.8% (map shows India)
Southwestern Europeam 1.1%
North African 1.1%

..but one of my cousins (Roma-side) get a little Sardinian and Mediterranean Islander:
North Slavic 46%
Northwest European 36%
Southwestern European 5.4%
Sardinian 2.7%
Mediterranean Islander 6.9%
Kalash 1.5%
Ambiguous 1.2%

MyHeritage is pretty uninteresting and not very accurate:
East Europe 58.8%
Balkan 9.3%
Irish, Scottish, Welsh 31.9% (WAY too high!)

Interesting. On your results, however, your Romani ancestry seems distant but you better about roots :)

Oh yeah, the NW Euro on MyHeritage is HUGE on you. Perhaps German relation? :D

[JosephK]

Interesting. On your results, however, your Romani ancestry seems distant but you better about roots :)

Oh yeah, the NW Euro on MyHeritage is HUGE on you. Perhaps German relation? :D

Yeah I have to admit, it's a mystery to me why I score much higher MENA than Indian, for sure... my recent hypothesis is that my father's mother was more mixed with Romanian than, say, Hungarian...?

[Chris00009]

Yeah I have to admit, it's a mystery to me why I score much higher MENA than Indian, for sure... my recent hypothesis is that my father's mother was more mixed with Romanian than, say, Hungarian...?


Yeah I assume she was mixed already. But looking at your results you don't score much MENA. Recombinant works randomly that's why the Indian you got from your Roma ancestor is low.


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[JosephK]

Yeah I assume she was mixed already. But looking at your results you don't score much MENA. Recombinant works randomly that's why the Indian you got from your Roma ancestor is low.



Oh yeah, on Gedmatch, AdmixtureStudio calculators my MENA is WAY higher than it should based on my known heritage... My South Asian results work out if I assume my grandmother was about one-half of a "full Roma" from the Balkans...

Have you seen the thread Any Gypsy/Romani GEDmatch kit numbers? (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?210950-Any-Gypsy-Romani-GEDmatch-kit-numbers) ? There are a number of GEDMatch kit numbers for various Roma on there to check out. Your results seem to fall in line with the other full-blooded Balkan Roma.

[Chris00009]

Oh yeah, on Gedmatch, AdmixtureStudio calculators my MENA is WAY higher than it should based on my known heritage... My South Asian results work out if I assume my grandmother was about one-half of a "full Roma" from the Balkans...

Have you seen the thread Any Gypsy/Romani GEDmatch kit numbers? (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?210950-Any-Gypsy-Romani-GEDmatch-kit-numbers) ? There are a number of GEDMatch kit numbers for various Roma on there to check out. Your results seem to fall in line with the other full-blooded Balkan Roma.


Perhaps it maybe. I saw only your oracle populations and results from companies.

Yeah I have seen the thread before. Did not have time to run all the kits :D but the origin of the kits it’s not specified. In the Balkans alone there are various Romani groups/tribes that are distant to each other (more distant to each other than Europeans are to each other xD) although we share some origins.

In fact I have Balkan roots, but the tribe I come from is known as firstly as Yerli which is the native Romani tribe of the Southern Balkans and Western Anatolian who had an early arrival in the area and never been nomadic. Secondly known as Horahane Roma which means they Turkish Roma as they were Muslims and assimilated into Ottoman culture.

On these tests I appear to be more Turkish/Persian shifted than Balkan Roma.

Me:

61.4%Greek_Cretan (derived)+38.6%Indian (derived)@4.9

78.8%Roma (derived)+21.2%Iranian (derived)@5.35

87.8%Roma (derived)+12.2%Saudi (derived)@5.5

82%Roma (derived)+18%Jew_Kurd (derived)@5.72


"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

Balkan Roma:

"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0


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[JosephK]

Perhaps it maybe. I saw only your oracle populations and results from companies.

Yeah I have seen the thread before. Did not have time to run all the kits :D but the origin of the kits it’s not specified. In the Balkans alone there are various Romani groups/tribes that are distant to each other (more distant to each other than Europeans are to each other xD) although we share some origins.

In fact I have Balkan roots, but the tribe I come from is known as firstly as Yerli which is the native Romani tribe of the Southern Balkans and Western Anatolian who had an early arrival in the area and never been nomadic. Secondly known as Horahane Roma which means they Turkish Roma as they were Muslims and assimilated into Ottoman culture.

On these tests I appear to be more Turkish/Persian shifted than Balkan Roma.

Me:

61.4%Greek_Cretan (derived)+38.6%Indian (derived)@4.9

78.8%Roma (derived)+21.2%Iranian (derived)@5.35

87.8%Roma (derived)+12.2%Saudi (derived)@5.5

82%Roma (derived)+18%Jew_Kurd (derived)@5.72


"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

Balkan Roma:

"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0


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Do you have results from MDLP World and MDLP World 22 on GEDMatch? I think the MDLPs are good for distinguishing among Caucasian, MENA and Persian...

[Leto]

Perhaps it maybe. I saw only your oracle populations and results from companies.

Yeah I have seen the thread before. Did not have time to run all the kits :D but the origin of the kits it’s not specified. In the Balkans alone there are various Romani groups/tribes that are distant to each other (more distant to each other than Europeans are to each other xD) although we share some origins.

In fact I have Balkan roots, but the tribe I come from is known as firstly as Yerli which is the native Romani tribe of the Southern Balkans and Western Anatolian who had an early arrival in the area and never been nomadic. Secondly known as Horahane Roma which means they Turkish Roma as they were Muslims and assimilated into Ottoman culture.

On these tests I appear to be more Turkish/Persian shifted than Balkan Roma.

Me:

61.4%Greek_Cretan (derived)+38.6%Indian (derived)@4.9

78.8%Roma (derived)+21.2%Iranian (derived)@5.35

87.8%Roma (derived)+12.2%Saudi (derived)@5.5

82%Roma (derived)+18%Jew_Kurd (derived)@5.72


"fit": 2.5434,
"Greek_Averaged": 40.83,
"Chamar_Averaged": 32.5,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 15,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 11.67,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,

Balkan Roma:

"fit": 1.0584,
"Greek_Averaged": 54.17,
"Chamar_Averaged": 30,
"Iranian_Persian_Averaged": 15.83,
"Romanian_Averaged": 0,
"Turkish_Kayseri_Averaged": 0


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Can you try these three components - Chamar, Greek and Armenian. This combination seems to be giving a pretty good fit

"sample": "Roma:Average",
"fit": 0.9677,
"Greek": 55,
"Chamar": 30,
"Armenian": 15