Classify Gypsies from Brazil

[Adamastor]

Brazilian Gypsies of the Kaló/Kalé ethnicity. They have been deported from Portugal to Brazil in the colonial times. Brazil has probably the biggest gypsy diaspora in the world outside Europe. There are gypsy camps in the states of São Paulo and Minas Gerais.

The number of gypsies in Brazil is estimated to be somwhere in between 1.3 million and 800.000 people.

http://cdn.istoe.com.br/wp-content/uploads/sites/14/2016/01/mi_9025270020687775.jpg

http://www.radarmissionario.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/evangelismo-1080x675.jpg

https://static.umbandaeucurto.com/uploads/2018/03/hist%C3%B3ria-dos-ciganos.jpg

https://www.redebrasilatual.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/cigana.jpg

https://s2.glbimg.com/o8hQYfgPT4hGx2BHwbJBXbJVCos=/0x0:1700x1065/984x0/smart/filters:strip_icc()/i.s3.glbimg.com/v1/AUTH_59edd422c0c84a879bd37670ae4f538a/internal_photos/bs/2017/7/e/fGnAncSzSws4Gwqw4t8w/2.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/bimcQomfW5Y/maxresdefault.jpg

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/cThZBw5xjD4/maxresdefault.jpg

http://vivabemavida.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/Cigana-na-festa-639x410.jpg

I never saw genetic tests of Brazilian gypsies, but I presume they absorbed very little European, African or Amerindian blood since most of them live in exclusively gypsy communities.

They can usually pass as 'non-gypsy' Brazilians tho, since the country is ultra-mixed.

[Tooting Carmen]

Some look more Indian, others more European, others intermediate.

[Adamastor]

Some look more Indian, others more European, others intermediate.

Do you know about Gypsies in Colombia or Hispanic America?

It seems a good proportion of Portuguese gypsies end up in Brazil, that's why Portugal has a smaller 'cigano/gitano' population than Spain.

[Tooting Carmen]

Do you know about Gypsies in Colombia or Hispanic America?

It seems a good proportion of Portuguese gypsies end up in Brazil, that's why Portugal has a smaller 'cigano/gitano' population than Spain.

There are some, but per capita I'd hardly say they're significant.

[Adamastor]

There are some, but per capita I'd hardly say they're significant.

Curiously, Brazil had two presidents of Gypsy origin, what is an unique case in the world. The myth of Brazil being more racially tolerant is true when we are dealing with non-black/SSA populations.

[Westbrook]

They actually look a bit less sketchy than their European cousins

[Tooting Carmen]

Curiously, Brazil had two presidents of Gypsy origin, what is an unique case in the world. The myth of Brazil being more racially tolerant is true when we are dealing with non-black/SSA populations.

Which Presidents were they? Well I remember former user Bolsonaro saying that everyone in Brazil is generally welcomed and well-treated except those who look visibly Black-admixed.

[Black Panther]

Which Presidents were they? Well I remember former user Bolsonaro saying that everyone in Brazil is generally welcomed and well-treated by non-Black Brazilians except those who look visibly Black-admixed.

fixed.

[Adamastor]

Which Presidents were they? Well I remember former user Bolsonaro saying that everyone in Brazil is generally welcomed and well-treated except those who look visibly Black-admixed.

Juscelino Kubitschek and Washington Luís:

https://static.historiadomundo.com.br/conteudo/images/juscelino-kubitschek-foi-presidente-brasileiro-1956-1961-ficou-marcado-pelo-desenvolvimentismo-5b69811ea9ef6.jpg

https://odebateon.com.br/site/upload/noticias/20120730121236_528.jpg

[img]

But they looked more European than Gypsy imo.

The user 'Bolsonaro' was right, Brazil is very tolerant with non-black non-whites. There's no practical difference between a non-Black non-white person and a white person in day to day life here.

[Tooting Carmen]

fixed.

OK true. Brazil may have been hopeless at treating its Black population well and integrating them, but its done a mostly good job with lots of other groups - countless European nationalities, plus Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Lebanese, Syrians, Jews...

[Black Panther]

OK true. Brazil may have been hopeless at treating its Black population well and integrating them, but its done a mostly good job with lots of other groups - countless European nationalities, plus Japanese, Koreans, Chinese, Lebanese, Syrians, Jews...

Don't generalize. "Brazil" can mean anything. And the majority population in Brazil is Black admixed. Saying "Brazil" accepts anyone who's not Black is like saying Apartheid South Africa accepted anyone who is not Black. The powerful minority may have one opinion. The general population has another.

[Tooting Carmen]

Don't generalize. "Brazil" can mean anything. And the majority population in Brazil is Black admixed. Saying "Brazil" accepts anyone who's not Black is like saying Apartheid South Africa accepted anyone who is not Black. The powerful minority may have one opinion. The general population has another.

(1) Many Brazilians are Black-admixed, but it doesn't always show up that strongly in everyone's phenotype. (2) Brazil has never had a policy of institutionalised segregation like South Africa. (3) South African Blacks (and to some extent American Blacks, for that matter) look far Blacker than 90% of Brazilians. (4) Apartheid South Africa also officially discriminated against Arabs and South Asians, which Brazil doesn't.

[Adamastor]

Don't generalize. "Brazil" can mean anything. And the majority population in Brazil is Black admixed. Saying "Brazil" accepts anyone who's not Black is like saying Apartheid South Africa accepted anyone who is not Black. The powerful minority may have one opinion. The general population has another.

Being visibly black-admixed is different from being 5, 10 or 15% SSA; Brazil is no South Africa and there's no Apartheid here. We don't have a ''white minority'' rulling over masses of niggas. Take your complexes out my thread, this is a thread about Brazilian gypsies not a place for you to distill the racial anxieties you developed living in Sweden as a half-Swedish who can't pass as Swedish.

I still think the main reason you ''blackwash'' Brazil is that your whole identity depends on that since your Brazilian mom was likely heavily SSA and you try to make the country closer to her to be able to ''fit'' somewhere; you're no Brazilian though, but a Swedish mongrel.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Brazilian gypsies are an misterious group even for brazilians.

In my state they are extremely rare, its like 80 times more easy to see a african immigrant or korean than a gypsie.

I thought gypsies in Southeast Brazil were more assimilated, but it seems they still preserve their exotic asian culture.

About the look, most of them would pass as pardos, but others can look more white. I remember Record once made a video about a extremely poor blonde blue eyed gitano family living in Sao Paulo highways structures.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

Also a lot of leftist brazilians think they are citanos just because they use miçangas and other exotic gitano things. Its cool to be a gitano here.

[Adamastor]

Also a lot of leftist brazilians think they are citanos just because they use miçangas and other exotic gitano things. Its cool to be a gitano here.

You're from Northeast, you have no experience with these groups. Gypsies in Brazil live mostly in São Paulo/Minas Gerais area and in the Center-West. They are not uncommon in the countryside.

[Tenma de Pegasus]

You're from Northeast, you have no experience with these groups. Gypsies in Brazil live mostly in São Paulo/Minas Gerais area and in the Center-West. They are not uncommon in the countryside.

That whats I said they are very rare around here

Gypsies are just people wanna being cool or exotic.

[ixulescu]

This particular group doesn't have a lot of South Asian, probably less than 20%. The same goes for West Asian.
In exchange they seem to have some SSA. Not a lot though, maybe some 10-15%.

[Adamastor]

This particular group doesn't have a lot of South Asian, probably less than 20%. The same goes for West Asian.
In exchange they seem to have some SSA. Not a lot though, maybe some 10-15%.

I don't think they show SSA tbh. Gypsies in Brazil are extremely racist towards blacks, they are even more racist than whites. Your opinion is probably being influenced by the fact they live in Brazil and the Swedish user ''Black Panther'' trolled my thread above.

[ixulescu]

I don't think they show SSA tbh. Gypsies in Brazil are extremely racist towards blacks, they are even more racist than whites. Your opinion is probably being influenced by the fact they live in Brazil and the Swedish user ''Black Panther'' trolled my thread above.

women on the left in the first pic of the OP has SSA admixture.

[Sacrificed Ram]

Portuguese gypsies as european gypsies as whole have strong impact of balkanic genetic. Portuguese gypsies also have important contribution of french and iberic genetics.

Brazil not only received portuguese kalon gypsies, during post colonial immigration period Brazil also received gypsies directly from Balkans, Greece, Turkey, Russia and recently an important wave of romanian gypsies.

[Duffmannn]

The gypsies on these photos are identical to the iberian and european ones (there are scarce differences between romanian and spanish gypsies, for example). They even play the same instruments (the iberian gypsies have like an obsession for playing the classical guitar or playing music with the hands, "tocar las palmas", here) and wear the same clothes.

They have not absorbed any amerindian, black or european influence during their stance in Brazil. Something logical because gypsies are very racist, but not only against blacks, but also agains whites too. In fact this racism and endogamy has let the exist during centuries and centuries in all the countries from India up to Portugal-Spain and United Kingdom, the most west point in the eurasian continent.

The assimilation of outer elements is very very slow in the gypsy groups, in Spain we have even a "gypsified" spanish native people, los mercheros. They mix with gypsies, but not to a total extent, that could seem logical because they have the same costumes and live in the same neighboorhoods.

https://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchero

After centuries of existence both groups are still distinguible. The same happens with similar groups in Portugal or eastern Europe.

[Carlito's Way]

Do you know about Gypsies in Colombia or Hispanic America?

It seems a good proportion of Portuguese gypsies end up in Brazil, that's why Portugal has a smaller 'cigano/gitano' population than Spain.

Mexico received many gypsies during the colonial days, I think that is why many Mexicans on 23andMe come out with some South Asian
They influence the culture of Mexico as well, contributed to our cinema, folkloric dances and even the mexicanismo slang has Gyspy contributions

Mexico has more cultural influence from Gypsies than anywhere else in the Americas

[Duffmannn]

There are barely gypsies in Mexico.

Most mexicans don´t know what a gypsy is.

[Universe]

women on the left in the first pic of the OP has SSA admixture.

I disagree, and it's not really a good picture to tell.

[Tooting Carmen]

Mexico received many gypsies during the colonial days, I think that is why many Mexicans on 23andMe come out with some South Asian
They influence the culture of Mexico as well, contributed to our cinema, folkloric dances and even the mexicanismo slang has Gyspy contributions

Mexico has more cultural influence from Gypsies than anywhere else in the Americas

Still I doubt they were anything like as numerous or influential as all the Sephardics, Moriscos and Conversos who went over.

[MiloshN]

They are in Brazil too? :D

[Carlito's Way]

Still I doubt they were anything like as numerous or influential as all the Sephardics, Moriscos and Conversos who went over.

Well maybe not as numerous or influential but they were still a big influential part of Mexican history, culture and traditions
The Gypsy community in Mexico was getting so big that the priest of that time would write letters to Spain telling them that Gypsies were already becoming a threat due to their large number in colonial Mexico
There is also many sources of Europeans who would travel to Mexico during that time who would say they would encounter many Gypsies in the nation and that many of them came from different parts of Europe and even all the way from Turkey
Lastly, during the Mexican empire, between 1863 and 1867 Emperor Franz Joseph I of Austria sent large number of Gypsy families to Mexico as a "gift" to his brother Maximiliano


And like I said, it is not rare to see Mexicans on 23andMe with more than 0.5% South Asian, nor with Gypsy/South Asian haplogroups


Gypsies were once on the cover of a Mexican bill
https://i.imgur.com/O9bIc1B.jpg



The Norwegian explorer Carl Lumholtz made six trips through Mexico between 1890 and 1910. He wrote of several encounters with Romanis, including those who traveled in troupes with bears and monkeys in tow.


"The Romanis faced significant prejudice in Mexico. In 1931, a law was passed to prohibit further settlement in the country. While new Romani migrants arrived later under assumed identities, the era of open Romani migration was over. Nevertheless, the minority had already made a significant impact on the culture. While Mexico’s indigenous and Spanish Catholic roots are often celebrated, the Romani heritage, which is still alive and strong today, is often ignored."


"In the early 20th century, Romani caravans were known for traveling from town to town and showing movies to captivated rural audiences. In this way, the Romani minority played a key role as pioneers of cinema in Mexico."


"In the southern state of Oaxaca, some musicians sing in Vlax Romani, a dialect of the Romani language that is still spoken today"


"Since 2003, the dance collective Egiptanos has brought spectacular performances of Romani music and dance to Mexican theaters. A celebration of Romani heritage and diversity in Mexico, the show features flamenco, traditional Romani song, and son jarocho, a regional folk musical style that originated in Veracruz, a state with a significant Romani population. One of the most famous Romani–Mexicans is the Veracruz-born composer and writer Alfonso Mejia-Arias, who is a renowned specialist in traditional Japanese music"


"In Mexico it is also called caló or caliche. The discovery of the Romani influence in the Mexican calo is due to Max Leopold Wagner in 1919. He offers us a brief history of Mexican calo at the beginning of the 20th century."

"In Mexico, it is also called caló to the "low" social circles or of delinquency (especially in the city of Mexico), and comes directly from the caló gypsy Spanish, and with an analogous use, that is, the one of the concealment of the uninitiated. Most of the words underwent slight phonetic or meaningful modifications. Here we have some examples, first in Caló Gypsy, and then its corresponding in Mexican Caló:

Baró (dinero) - Baro (dinero);
Chavó(muchacho) - Chavo (muchacho)
Pusca (pistola) - Fusca (pistola)
Abillar (venir, tener) - Abillar (tener)
Tarisvel (cárcel) - Taris (policía)
Dicar (ver) - Licar (ver, vigilar)
Menda (yo) - Menda (yo)



This immigration ranged from 1880 to 1900, the year in which a hundred Roma families settled in Veracruz, known as the ludar group, arrived in Mexico.

In 1931, a modification to the immigration law prohibited the settlement of gypsies in Mexico, despite the fact that a large colony already existed. In the period between the two world wars, many Roma emigrated from the then territory of the Hungarian Kingdom. and they arrived at ports in Mexico and Venezuela. Upon requesting nationality, they identified themselves as "Hungarian", so that they would not be prevented from entering."



I can post many Mexicans with South Asian ancestry on 23andMe
but yeah, clearly the Jewish ancestry is present in all parts of Mexico, while the Gypsy/South Asian tends to be more concentrated in certain areas of the country
https://i.imgur.com/ysjuemA.png
https://i.imgur.com/4mTzKj0.png
https://i.imgur.com/mrhIFrJ.png
https://i.imgur.com/A2wRNOv.png

[Black Panther]

Being visibly black-admixed is different from being 5, 10 or 15% SSA; Brazil is no South Africa and there's no Apartheid here. We don't have a ''white minority'' rulling over masses of niggas. Take your complexes out my thread, this is a thread about Brazilian gypsies not a place for you to distill the racial anxieties you developed living in Sweden as a half-Swedish who can't pass as Swedish.

I still think the main reason you ''blackwash'' Brazil is that your whole identity depends on that since your Brazilian mom was likely heavily SSA and you try to make the country closer to her to be able to ''fit'' somewhere; you're no Brazilian though, but a Swedish mongrel.

Haha. You even care to write all that gibberish? Do you really think I take into consideration the words of a dirty racist like you? Get a life.

[ixulescu]

I disagree, and it's not really a good picture to tell.

It's a typical pheno for Caribbean mulatto women. I've seen this face many times.

It's clear that some of the gypsies in this group do not pass as European gypsies.

[Tooting Carmen]

Haha. You even care to write all that gibberish? Do you really think I take into consideration the words of a dirty racist like you? Get a life.

Adamstor does have some eccentric and controversial ideas and beliefs, but he is certainly not a racist in the same way that some other forum users are.

[Black Panther]

Adamstor does have some eccentric and controversial ideas and beliefs, but he is certainly not a racist in the same way that some other forum users are.

HAHAHA. He just called a mixed person a "mongrel" and called Black people "niggas" and you defend that piece of shit? Are u even listening to your own words?

[Tooting Carmen]

HAHAHA. He just called a mixed person a "mongrel" and called Black people "niggas" and you defend that piece of shit? Are u even listening to your own words?

If you actually discuss politics with him as I have, you'd see he is not that extreme. A Brazilian Smeagol he is not.

[Black Panther]

If you actually discuss politics with him as I have, you'd see he is not that extreme. A Brazilian Smeagol he is not.

He's definitely a racist trash regardless.

[Tooting Carmen]

He's definitely a racist trash regardless.

Well to me it is also a shame you have increasingly embraced the ideas of Malcolm X and not MLK.

[Black Panther]

Well to me it is also a shame you have increasingly embraced the ideas of Malcolm X and not MLK.

Why do Blacks need to be more like MLK? Let Whites and other non-Blacks start adopting MLK values first. Then we may join as well. As long as we live in this reality, I am 100% team Malcolm, without embracing his religious views, ofc.

[Tooting Carmen]

Why do Blacks need to be more like MLK? Let Whites and other non-Blacks start adopting MLK values first. Then we may join as well. As long as we live in this reality, I am 100% team Malcolm, without embracing his religious views, ofc.

Malcolm X ironically took most White racist beliefs and flipped them on their head, advocating separation and segregation from Whites in the name of 'liberation'. And given you are half-White rather than fully Black, the fact you follow this agenda is all the more droll.

[Black Panther]

Malcolm X ironically took most White racist beliefs and flipped them on their head, advocating separation and segregation from Whites in the name of 'liberation'. And given you are half-White rather than fully Black, the fact you follow this agenda is all the more droll.

Malcolm himself was "racially admixed", and NO! He didn't flip the racist beliefs of White America. He defended protecting Black people and doing for self, living by ourselves. There is nothing wrong with his ideas. He never defended open and free violence against other races like racist the whites do.

[Adamastor]

Malcolm X ironically took most White racist beliefs and flipped them on their head, advocating separation and segregation from Whites in the name of 'liberation'. And given you are half-White rather than fully Black, the fact you follow this agenda is all the more droll.

He's more like 75-80% White and the rest Black. He cannot even pass in Africa.


It's a typical pheno for Caribbean mulatto women. I've seen this face many times.

It's clear that some of the gypsies in this group do not pass as European gypsies.

There are ''European'' gypsies much darker and exotic than the ones in these pics. I've seen Romanian gypsies who even looked Tamil/South Indian and sometimes even Australoid. Romanian gypsy Banel Nicolita, for example, would be called mulatto or even black in Brazil.

[Smeagol]

Malcolm X ironically took most White racist beliefs and flipped them on their head, advocating separation and segregation from Whites in the name of 'liberation'. And given you are half-White rather than fully Black, the fact you follow this agenda is all the more droll.

He's actually more like 3/4 white but Malcolm was a mulatto himself. I've noticed it's the mixed breed negroes who tend to be the most radical. They feel like they have something to prove I guess.

[Carlito's Way]

He's actually more like 3/4 white but Malcolm was a mulatto himself. I've noticed it's the mixed breed negroes who tend to be the most radical. They feel like they have something to prove I guess.

Malcolm X was not a mulatto LOL
his grandmother was raped by a white man, thus giving birth to his mother
its Malcolm X's mother the mulatto one, but she married a black man from Grenada and those tend to be 100% SSA
making Malcolm X pred SSA

his parents
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/b/bd/Louise_and_Earl_Little.jpg/220px-Louise_and_Earl_Little.jpg

[Sacrificed Ram]

A study about portuguese kalon yDNA (English):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/vumfhji10lwk8io/A%20Perspective%20on%20the%20History%20of%20the%20 Iberian%20Gypsies%20Provided%20by%20Phylogeographi c%20Analysis%20of%20Y-Chr.pdf?dl=0

About gypsy history in Brazil (Portuguese):
https://www.dropbox.com/s/43f0euvvyx4yl28/Hist%C3%B3ria%20do%20Ciganos%20no%20Brasil.pdf?dl= 0

[Rafael Passoni]

Washington Luís Pereira de Sousa :
https://i0.wp.com/www.jornalopcao.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Washington-Lu%C3%ADs-capa-do-livro--scaled.jpg?resize=620%2C827&ssl=1
https://i0.wp.com/www.jornalopcao.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Washington-Lu%C3%ADs-e-o-embaixador-da-inglaterra-no-Pal%C3%A1cio-do-Catete-Foto-Arquivo-Nacional-scaled-e1577413854311.jpg?resize=620%2C736&ssl=1
https://i1.wp.com/www.jornalopcao.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2019/12/Washington-Lu%C3%ADs-e-Get%C3%BAlio-Vargas-e-ministros-1-scaled.jpg?resize=620%2C465&ssl=1

[Rafael Passoni]

Juscelino Kubitschek:
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-0ra1rV9Mz1Y/W_YLAgWsUsI/AAAAAAAAG8g/_HP1HslISyMzSN63CUcYCDFTRf2BQqNJwCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Bjovem%2BII.jpg
https://i1.wp.com/www.fatosdesconhecidos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/2-62.jpg?resize=620%2C457&ssl=1
https://i1.wp.com/www.fatosdesconhecidos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2018/09/1.1-36.jpg?resize=700%2C448&ssl=1
https://i2.wp.com/www.fatosdesconhecidos.com.br/wp-content/uploads/2

https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-jOo9qdvov_c/W_cfXvT6QHI/AAAAAAAAG_s/pPoYU2ApzpcpyrbBxVD4pr-Pi2EZ4W91wCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Bcarregado.jpg
https://3.bp.blogspot.com/-299m6cEQhvM/W_SD86a39WI/AAAAAAAAG28/D4XcJXIX5vQASrZ_ipS-NyH3fwYOZ0_bwCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Bna%2Bposse%2Bcomo%2Bgovernador%2Bde%2BMG.jpg
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-oRY1gpzilZI/W_SAN5HihbI/AAAAAAAAG2Y/t7fHDxYMysk6F_le2qBuHL_uyNYEggGnwCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Bprefeito%2Bde%2BBH.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-kmw6l-msVtw/W_YMZReG7BI/AAAAAAAAG80/yPZ8gBNr5_Q5bKnOKDbJswPvwZqBMkYkQCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Buniformizado%2Bem%2B1932.jpg
https://4.bp.blogspot.com/-WjQapS_Fbi8/W_SC9nJ4LOI/AAAAAAAAG2w/zHflWgo3vuIDSaXXPXt7geWkUG0cTdDggCLcBGAs/s1600/JK%2Be%2Bdona%2BSara%2BII.jpg