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Treffie
07-04-2011, 10:07 PM
Almost half of people in England do not want Scotland to become independent, a poll suggests.

The ComRes survey for BBC's Newsnight and Radio 4's World at One found 48% of voters in England wanted Scotland to remain within the United Kingdom.

If Scotland voted for separation, 45% said they would like a referendum in the rest of the UK.

ComRes chairman Andrew Hawkins said it suggested both nations should have a say in any decision about the Union.

The poll asked 864 adults in England a variety of questions relating to Scottish independence.

Following an historic election victory in May, Scotland's SNP government promised to hold a referendum on Scottish independence within the next five years.


That almost half of the English feel that they would like a say over Scotland's future suggests that the Union should be England's as well as Scotland's to determine”

Andrew Hawkins Comres

English support for Scottish independence polled at 36% - almost exactly the same as the result of a poll for the Herald newspaper last month, which suggested 37% of Scots favoured separation.

Despite increasing complaints from English MPs that Scotland gets too much funding from Westminster, 51% of those surveyed thought that an independent Scotland would not make any difference to how well off England was.

While 21% of people thought England would be worse off, 19% said it would be better off.

On the issue of whether there would have to be a second referendum in the rest of the United Kingdom should Scotland vote for independence, as recently suggested by Scottish Secretary Michael Moore, opinion was fairly evenly split.

Forty-five percent said the rest of the United Kingdom should get a say, while 47% said it should not.



36% say Scotland should become a fully independent country, but 48% say it should not.
51% say an independent Scotland would make no difference to England, while 19% believe it would leave England better off and 21% worse off.
45% say a referendum should be held in the rest of the UK before Scotland can be allowed to be independent, while 47% say there is no need for one.
36% say England should become an independent country, irrespective of any Scottish vote while 57% say it should not.

ComRes interviewed 864 English adults by telephone between 24 and 26 June 2011. Data was weighted to be demographically representative of all English adults.

Regardless of what Scotland decides to do, however, the poll indicated that most English people wanted England to remain within a United Kingdom, with 57% saying they would not like the country to become fully independent with its own government.

But more than a third did want to see an independent England - the same number as those who supported an independent Scotland.

Mr Hawkins said: "That almost half of the English feel that they would like a say over Scotland's future suggests that the Union should be England's as well as Scotland's to determine."

The SNP's Treasury Spokesman, Stewart Hosie, told The World at One: "What it tells me is that English people are very relaxed about Scottish independence... I think the real key about this is we're now starting a proper debate about what independence will mean. Not just for Scotland where that's a bit clearer, but for England as well."

John Curtice, professor of politics at Strathclyde University told the BBC that the poll suggested that "for the most part, England wants the Union to continue and certainly sees little advantage in it ending, but probably would not die in a ditch to keep it preserved".

"After all, for most people in England, Scotland is not a significant 'other'," he said.

Link (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-13995097)

Beorn
07-04-2011, 11:23 PM
3gMcZic1d4U


Opinion polls said the opposite not long ago. I say we have a vote, stand well back and see what happens.

Duckelf
07-04-2011, 11:42 PM
The break up of the Union would be a disaster, an excuse for the PC left to further divorce the nations of the British Isles from their history and subject them to further EU domination.

Troll's Puzzle
07-04-2011, 11:52 PM
The break up of the Union would be a blessing, an encouragement for the nations of the British Isles to be remarried with their histories and free them to further EU domination.

Treffie
07-04-2011, 11:54 PM
The break up of the Union would be a disaster, an excuse for the PC left to further divorce the nations of the British Isles from their history and subject them to further EU domination.

The PC left didn't want this to happen originally. Of course, they wanted devolution, but they thought they could keep them as bastions of Blairism. Instead, it's come right back and smacked them in the mush.

Comte Arnau
07-04-2011, 11:57 PM
Did the English vote include the Welsh?

Logan
07-05-2011, 01:08 AM
My fathers were of a different mind. Their history is quite well known.

Change is constant. In future; it may indeed be found that England, once again, is but a small outline upon the globe. Perhaps. The tide has been ebbing for over a hundred years. Both opinions have validity.

“The isles of Greece, the isles of Greece! / Where burning Sappho loved and sung, / Where grew the arts of war and peace, / Where Delos rose, and Phoebus sprung! / Eternal summer gilds them yet, / But all, except their sun, is set.” Lord Byron

Μολών λαβέ ! Leonidas

poiuytrewq0987
07-05-2011, 06:49 AM
The UK seems to be going the way of Greece during the Hellenistic age. I can draw some comparisons and the only difference is perhaps the British Empire lasted much longer than Alexander's and the splintered kingdoms.

Eldritch
07-05-2011, 07:48 AM
I'm actually surprised that so many do not oppose it.

Joe McCarthy
07-05-2011, 07:59 AM
I'm actually surprised that so many do not oppose it.

Alas, the English aren't what they once were. On a side note, I imagine such a separation would help England and hurt Scotland in terms of immigration - certainly help England, at least.

Duckelf
07-05-2011, 08:11 AM
Alas, the English aren't what they once were. On a side note, I imagine such a separation would help England and hurt Scotland in terms of immigration - certainly help England, at least.
It would be a disaster for the cause of immigration restriction in Scotland. The leader of the Scottish National Party (the only major political group pushing for independence) was a member of a leftist socialist faction of the party during the early 80s and one of their ex-members of the Scottish parliament was a Muslim immigrant by the name of Bashir Admad. The SNP are fervently pro-EU and have no interest in opposing immigration. Quite the Scottish 'patriots'.

If the SNP took Scotland out of the Union, I would go south.

Raikaswinþs
07-05-2011, 08:24 AM
In Spain they go: nearly 43% of Catalans want independece! similar data, yet interpreted in different way.

Raikaswinþs
07-05-2011, 06:03 PM
It would be a disaster for the cause of immigration restriction in Scotland. The leader of the Scottish National Party (the only major political group pushing for independence) was a member of a leftist socialist faction of the party during the early 80s and one of their ex-members of the Scottish parliament was a Muslim immigrant by the name of Bashir Admad. The SNP are fervently pro-EU and have no interest in opposing immigration. Quite the Scottish 'patriots'.

If the SNP took Scotland out of the Union, I would go south.


good choice. Because England is safe from mass migration from Pakilandia and Muslimdonia

Duckelf
07-05-2011, 06:47 PM
good choice. Because England is safe from mass migration from Pakilandia and Muslimdonia
That is not what I was saying, but in any case England without Labour/SNP voting Scotland would probably have more chance of doing something about immigration.

Groenewolf
07-05-2011, 06:52 PM
That is not what I was saying, but in any case England without Labour/SNP voting Scotland would probably have more chance of doing something about immigration.

Only if the Conservatives follows the Powell line.

Raikaswinþs
07-05-2011, 07:54 PM
That is not what I was saying, but in any case England without Labour/SNP voting Scotland would probably have more chance of doing something about immigration.

I know NSP members and even they know that the immigration thing has gotten a little out of hand :thumb001:

If independce does occur, Scotland most likely will suffer an economic shrinkage , and unemployment will grow. Then maybe another party might take over the government. Another non so Euro-union-friendly-and-pro -immigration.

Who knows, we might be lucky after all

Graham
07-09-2011, 05:27 PM
That is not what I was saying, but in any case England without Labour/SNP voting Scotland would probably have more chance of doing something about immigration.
The English voted in favour of Tony Blair twice as Prime Minister. The North of England's pro old Labour.


I know NSP members and even they know that the immigration thing has gotten a little out of hand :thumb001:

If independce does occur, Scotland most likely will suffer an economic shrinkage , and unemployment will grow. Then maybe another party might take over the government. Another non so Euro-union-friendly-and-pro -immigration.

Who knows, we might be lucky after all

Yes, it's called taking responsibility for ones actions. An independant Scotland will have to be responsible for it's actions. Therefore the politics of this country can,will or should change. The comfort zones too high at the moment.

Immigration can't get much worse, than what it's been under London rule. The same unionists say, we will get poorer after seperation. Surely immigration will go down then in poorer Scotland!

Albion
07-15-2011, 11:57 AM
A poll on behalf of.... BBBC Radio 4 - of course most of them prefer the union, most Radio 4 listeners are unionist union jack wavers.
This poll doesn't speak for England at all, almost all other polls have shown the opposite, that we want them to go. Salmond is full of crap, he's dragging his heels and waiting for the economy to pick up.

SwordoftheVistula
07-15-2011, 12:07 PM
Seems the real story is less than half of English oppose independence for Scotland.


The North of England's pro old Labour.


Mainly the cities, full of people who have been on welfare for multiple generations. Maybe we can give them independence as well, 'The Chavdom of Leicester', 'The Chavdom of Birmingham' and so on.

Albion
07-15-2011, 12:19 PM
Seems the real story is less than half of English oppose independence for Scotland.



Mainly the cities, full of people who have been on welfare for multiple generations. Maybe we can give them independence as well, 'The Chavdom of Leicester', 'The Chavdom of Birmingham' and so on.

Bingo.

British Communism in it's "heyday" was strongest in the North, Wales pits and Central Belt of Scotland.

antonio
07-15-2011, 12:20 PM
I'm actually surprised that so many do not oppose it.

They saw Braveheart and concluded in shame how bad their parents did on peaceful Scottish.

Albion
07-15-2011, 12:33 PM
They saw Braveheart and concluded in shame how bad their parents did on peaceful Scottish.

I love Scottish history, it dwells on the good parts, a few won battles whilst ignoring or writing the major defeats into the sidelines.
No other country looks so positively at a negative history as the Scots.

I think the reason is that the English are finally sick and tired of a whiney little country and it's stubborn demands, the slurs against the English and the burden on our taxes. (http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=29369)
They should go it alone, the English want as much.

johngaunt
07-15-2011, 12:44 PM
They saw Braveheart and concluded in shame how bad their parents did on peaceful Scottish.

That film is about as historically accurate as Shrek.

This is what happend when the Scots tried to invade England

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Pinkie_Cleugh

A stronger Scottish army soundly beaten.

Scotland
6,000-15,000 killed[3]
2,000 prisoners[3] 200-600 killed[4]


England
200 Killed

I like the Scots though, Im 1/4 Scottish myself, but the moaning they do in Australia about the English gets annoying.

Graham
07-15-2011, 12:48 PM
They saw Braveheart and concluded in shame how bad their parents did on peaceful Scottish.

Just a movie my friend, don't see the point in slagging off England to be honest. A good neighbour they are and still will be if independent or not. We talk of the Auld Alliance with France, but England's really our Alliance now.

anyway here's a wee shortbread tin song :):D



Scotland Will Flourish (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MoTaibLvkC8&feature=related)

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

Let the Scots be a nation proud of their heritage
With an eye to the future and a heart to forgive
And let us be rid of those bigots and fools
Who will not let Scotland live and let live

Let us govern over country wisely and fairly
Let each man and woman work with a will
And Scotland will flourish secure in the knowledge
That we reap our own harvest and ring our own till

And let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is open proper to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end

Scotland will flourish by the sweat of labour
The strength of our will and the force of our mind
Forget the old battles, those days are over
Hatred corrupts and friendship refines

So let us be known for our kind hospitality
A hand that is open proper to friends
A hard working people, proud and unbending
Scotland will thrive and win out in the end

johngaunt
07-15-2011, 12:51 PM
Just a movie my friend, don't see the point in slagging off England to be honest. A good neighbour they are and still will be if independent or not. We talk of the Auld Alliance with France, but England's really our Alliance now.

anyway here's a wee shortbread tin song :):D

Good to hear - Scotland has some amazing landscapes and is an integral part of the UK, Id hate to see it lost in an ineffective EU.

SwordoftheVistula
07-19-2011, 12:39 PM
True, the EU is a disaster for any country which joins.