Moroccan Jews with Irish YDNA?

[Sp_loa]

In my grandmother matches report there are 2 people with the Moroccan Jewish surname "Coriat".

https://i.ibb.co/gR9jzfh/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-26-25-AM.png

The both belong to the haplogroup of - R1b-Y4010


https://i.ibb.co/StTkqgF/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-38-31-AM.png

https://i.ibb.co/Xp1BBQM/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-41-06-AM.png


It's not rare for Moroccan Jews of Sephardic descent to be R1b. DF27, DF98 (all the Moroccan Jews with last name "Bitton") , U152 and ect.

But I was stunned when I saw that R1b-Y4010 is actually of Irish origin with TMRCA of 1000 years ago (circa 1000AD)
https://i.ibb.co/VQHCs3Z/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-30-35-AM.png

This website (that shows patterns of immigrations) even gives TMRCA of 1100 AD.
https://i.ibb.co/JsMhDKV/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-32-31-AM.png

If you think that these 2 people are a classic case of a grandmother that cheated with Northern European- you are wrong. 0% NW Euro on the autosomal composition.

https://i.ibb.co/PW2KQ2W/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-37-55-AM.png

When I tried to reach the origins of this last name I encountered that-

"Coriat in the province of new Castille, Spain; Coria in eastern Spain; or Coria in western Spain.

Coriat is documented in Toledo, Spain, since the 12th century and in Morocco since the early 16th century."

His paternal line are Sephardic from Spain, ok; probably a local man that converted to Judaism (wasn't rare judging that around 1 of every 5 Moroccan Jews on my grandmother matches list is R1b) , ok; but why would they have an Irish R1b subclade?


Do you think it has anything to do with the Breton refugees in Galicia?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Britonia6hcentury.png/1200px-Britonia6hcentury.png


Do you have any explanation?

[Sp_loa]

Did Irish people participated in the Reconquista and maybe it's from there? If yes that could be the source.

[KuriousKatKommittee]

You know what your fam gotta do now, OP.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/e3/fd/88/e3fd8826145a93138d9d6184e92532ef.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e9/30/a3/e930a340b4192ff736b0b5ec28e9df03--celtic-pride-irish-pride.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaYAqWnfclM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw

[Leto]

Who knows, probably it's from the Middle Ages and the Celtic blood has been diluted since then.

[Not a Cop]

Did Irish people participated in the Reconquista and maybe it's from there? If yes that could be the source.

It's not unlikely that Irish had participated in Reconquitsta, however you have to keep in mind that North NW Africa was always a major slave trading spot, and Ireland was constantly raided throughout the middle ages. Like this f.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Baltimore my bet would be on some slave ancestry.

[Lucas]

It's not unlikely that Irish had participated in Reconquitsta, however you have to keep in mind that North NW Africa was always a major slave trading spot, and Ireland was constantly raided throughout the middle ages. Like this f.e. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sack_of_Baltimore my bet would be on some slave ancestry.

This.
But Irish slaves would end up as Muslims rather than local Jews converts.

[Sp_loa]

This.
But Irish slaves would end up as Muslims rather than local Jews converts.

Unfortunately I don’t have any other matches with this surname to check if all people with it are that haplogroup. Because if the answer is yes, it probably has something do with Spain so earlier period.

I know that Jews were almost never slaves because the Jewish community always paid (sometimes with international help from other Jewish communities) to get the Jewish slaves free. Maybe a irishman converted to be released? Maybe he just escaped and found shelter in Jewish house/fell in love with a Jewish girl?

From the moment you told me there were Irish people in Northern Africa, everything is possible. Life is crazy you know.

[Sp_loa]

You know what your fam gotta do now, OP.

http://media-cache-ec0.pinimg.com/736x/e3/fd/88/e3fd8826145a93138d9d6184e92532ef.jpg
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/e9/30/a3/e930a340b4192ff736b0b5ec28e9df03--celtic-pride-irish-pride.jpg

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AaYAqWnfclM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x-64CaD8GXw


Not my haplogroup haha. My grandmother did score 0.7% British and Irish on the ancestry composition lol.

[Voskos]

The Atlantic facade is a real thing. You can find spaniards with irish Y-DNA and vice versa.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/21/16/4971B33B00000578-5413607-image-a-2_1519232185871.jpg

[Sp_loa]

Who knows, probably it's from the Middle Ages and the Celtic blood has been diluted since then.

Middle ages how? Reconquista? trade between Ireland and Castile? That’s my question.

I have no idea how common is this. I saw many clades of R1b among Moroccan Jews but all of them were atleast (on yfull) present in Spain or Italy. Even if by origin they are from NW Europe (like DF98 which isn’t so rare among us surprisingly) but it’s also present in Portugal/Spain, so we have an explanation of Spanish convertor (even if his paternal line goes back to Bretons or Goths).

This haplogeoup is weird because it doesn’t seem to be present in Spain itself. I really don’t know what to think.

[Sp_loa]

The Atlantic facade is a real thing. You can find spaniards with irish Y-DNA and vice versa.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/21/16/4971B33B00000578-5413607-image-a-2_1519232185871.jpg


True for many subclades of R1b (read my last comment) but the TMRCA of this specific subclade is 1,000 years. So I am not sure that’s the case.

[Voskos]

I personally never trust the TMRCAs as they are simply estimated. That said it could still be a recent medieval input for sure.

[Ayetooey]

The influence of the bellbeakers is incredible.

All praise to the Indo-EuR1opeans!

[Bellbeaking]

The Atlantic facade is a real thing. You can find spaniards with irish Y-DNA and vice versa.

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2018/02/21/16/4971B33B00000578-5413607-im9232185871.jpg

This is the spread of Pots/Culture. Not people at least for 1-2. 2-3 is migration though.

[Leto]

The influence of the bellbeakers is incredible.

All praise to the Indo-EuR1opeans!
Wait, the true IEs were Kurds, weren't they? Everyone else is just a motherfucking monkey xD

[mihyar]

In my grandmother matches report there are 2 people with the Moroccan Jewish surname "Coriat".

https://i.ibb.co/gR9jzfh/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-26-25-AM.png

The both belong to the haplogroup of - R1b-Y4010


https://i.ibb.co/StTkqgF/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-38-31-AM.png

https://i.ibb.co/Xp1BBQM/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-41-06-AM.png


It's not rare for Moroccan Jews of Sephardic descent to be R1b. DF27, DF98 (all the Moroccan Jews with last name "Bitton") , U152 and ect.

But I was stunned when I saw that R1b-Y4010 is actually of Irish origin with TMRCA of 1000 years ago (circa 1000AD)
https://i.ibb.co/VQHCs3Z/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-30-35-AM.png

This website (that shows patterns of immigrations) even gives TMRCA of 1100 AD.
https://i.ibb.co/JsMhDKV/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-32-31-AM.png

If you think that these 2 people are a classic case of a grandmother that cheated with Northern European- you are wrong. 0% NW Euro on the autosomal composition.

https://i.ibb.co/PW2KQ2W/Screen-Shot-2019-08-02-at-1-37-55-AM.png

When I tried to reach the origins of this last name I encountered that-

"Coriat in the province of new Castille, Spain; Coria in eastern Spain; or Coria in western Spain.

Coriat is documented in Toledo, Spain, since the 12th century and in Morocco since the early 16th century."

His paternal line are Sephardic from Spain, ok; probably a local man that converted to Judaism (wasn't rare judging that around 1 of every 5 Moroccan Jews on my grandmother matches list is R1b) , ok; but why would they have an Irish R1b subclade?


Do you think it has anything to do with the Breton refugees in Galicia?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/f/f9/Britonia6hcentury.png/1200px-Britonia6hcentury.png


Do you have any explanation?

Sort of reminiscent of the large Ashkenazi "Ivanhoe" group, R1b-Y5051, downstream of R-U106. Closest relatives are Iberian, but ultimately it's a heavily British (Anglo-Saxon?) clade.