Do Balkan Turks Have Native Anatolian Ancestry?

[Thracian]

I just decided to compare Balkan Turk users (me, Kaspias (half Pomak and half Balkan Turk) and Karakartal or zuzu14 on Global 25) with Anatolian Turkish averages using Global 25 nMonre runner. I used two different models. They are basically the same but first one represents modern nations and second one represents how much Balkan native, Anatolian native, Slavic, Iranic or Turkic we are.

Kaspias;

6/16 Komotini, Greece
1/16 Smolyan, Bulgaria
1/16 Niš, Serbia
5/16 Kardzhali, Bulgaria
2/16 Komotini, Greece
1/16 Dobrich, Bulgaria

Karakartal;

4/16 Kilkis, Greece
2/16 Drama, Greece
2/16 Karnobat, Bulgaria
8/16 Istanbul, Turkey

Thracian

1/2 Kardzhali, Bulgaria
1/4 Veliko Tarnovo, Bulgaria
1/4 Gevgelija, Macedonia

Model I,

As seen in the SS, I chose some Balkan nations, Anatolian Greeks, Iranians and Turkmens.

https://i.ibb.co/3rdvH2T/ATB2.png

Model II,

I picked Italian_Abruzzo for native Balkan ancestry (ancient Thracian sample AKA Bgr_IA closer to Abruzzo), Polish for Slavic ancestry, Greek_Central_Anatolian for Native Anatolian ancestry, Fars for Iranic and Turkmen for Turkic ancestry.

https://i.ibb.co/bvfMNbV/ATB3.png

It seems I and Kaspias have no Anatolian ancestry while Karakartal has around 1/8.

Some historians claim that Balkan Turks are Turks who resettled to Balkans from Anatolia (Konya or Kastamonu).

As far as I read, there could be three major Turkish/Turkic migration to Balkans in last 800 years. These are,

I. Tatar like ancestry
II. Turks who resettled to Balkans before 1453
III. Turks who resettled to Balkans after Celali rebellions

We also should consider most of Balkan Turks re-migrated to Anatolia and mixed with Anatolian Turks. So, I think Balkan Turks have none or negligible Anatolian ancestry.

[Rgvgjhvv]

I agree with your conclusion

[karakartal]

Could you please do model 1 and 2 for my father's coordinates? He is full Balkan Turk.

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Burak_scaled,0.118376,0.110693,0.008674,-0.010982,0.005539,0,0.00235,0.004384,-0.001432,-0.000182,0.002273,-0.003747,0.001784,0.006055,-0.018322,0.008751,0.020601,-0.009502,-0.000503,0.003001,-0.009608,0.004204,0.001479,0.001205,0.000239

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Burak,0.0104,0.0109,0.0023,-0.0034,0.0018,0,0.001,0.0019,-0.0007,-0.0001,0.0014,-0.0025,0.0012,0.0044,-0.0135,0.0066,0.0158,-0.0075,-0.0004,0.0024,-0.0077,0.0034,0.0012,0.001,0.0002

thanks

[Thracian]

Could you please do model 1 and 2 for my father's coordinates? He is full Balkan Turk.

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Burak_scaled,0.118376,0.110693,0.008674,-0.010982,0.005539,0,0.00235,0.004384,-0.001432,-0.000182,0.002273,-0.003747,0.001784,0.006055,-0.018322,0.008751,0.020601,-0.009502,-0.000503,0.003001,-0.009608,0.004204,0.001479,0.001205,0.000239

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Burak,0.0104,0.0109,0.0023,-0.0034,0.0018,0,0.001,0.0019,-0.0007,-0.0001,0.0014,-0.0025,0.0012,0.0044,-0.0135,0.0066,0.0158,-0.0075,-0.0004,0.0024,-0.0077,0.0034,0.0012,0.001,0.0002

thanks

I will add him as well later tonight.

[Voskos]

Maybe you should also try using Laz as a potential source, instead of Central Anatolian Greeks.

[Marmara]

Balkan Turks have Yörük ancestry, and Yörüks back then were probably even less mixed (or not at all) than today.

[Thracian]

Maybe you should also try using Laz as a potential source, instead of Central Anatolian Greeks.

I can try with Lazes. I tried with Armenians but nothing changed.

[Kaspias]

Greek academic samples inaccurately includes a lot of Slavic admixture. In this sense, i have replaced Greek avg with GREEKGRALPOP16 who is from Central Greece. Added Laz. Added Karakartal's father.

https://i.ibb.co/RvzT0bB/Ads-z.png
https://i.ibb.co/M8XFNsH/Ads-z2.png

[Voskos]

Looks like the Laz doesn't improve the fits.

[karakartal]

I think we try to modelling ancient samples.

[Thracian]

Greek academic samples inaccurately includes a lot of Slavic admixture. In this sense, i have replaced Greek avg with GREEKGRALPOP16 who is from Central Greece. Added Laz. Added Karakartal's father.

https://i.ibb.co/RvzT0bB/Ads-z.png
https://i.ibb.co/M8XFNsH/Ads-z2.png

The problem with Greek samples is they didn't separate them into different regions. Slavic admixture in Greeks is not surprise. We can see the difference between Modern and Ancient Greeks clearly. To be honest, the chance mixing with Greeks in North is more than Greeks in South and Islands for us.

It seems Greek samples divided between Albanian and Central Anatolian Greeks when you pick GREEKGRALPOP16 in your models. I have slightly more Albanian than you in your Model I which is highly unlikely for me.

I think that my Model II is more accurate. I picked Italian Abruzzo because it is very possible to represent our native Balkan ancestry. Here is the Bulgaria_IA, I used program ''R''.


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Italian_Abruzzo Italian_Tuscan Sicilian_East Italian_South Sicilian_West
4.087096 4.473999 4.720308 4.776835 5.043692
Greek Greek_Crete Albanian
5.239672 5.340891 5.496453

[1] "distance%=2.9509"

BGR_IA

Italian_Abruzzo,40.4
Sardinian,21.6
Italian_Tuscan,13.4
Greek_Crete,11
Albanian,5.2
Greek_Central_Anatolia,3.6
Cypriot,3.2
Greek,0.4
Greek_Trabzon,0.4
Italian_Jew,0.4
Italian_Bergamo,0.2
Italian_South,0.2



Added Karakartal's father,

https://i.ibb.co/SKRYV2s/ATB5.png

[Thracian]

Balkan Turks have Yörük ancestry, and Yörüks back then were probably even less mixed (or not at all) than today.

This is not true. As I mentioned before, at least three major and a few minor migrations happened. The biggest one happened after Celali Rebellion and many Turkmens resettled Balkans by force. Kaspias probably knows better than me, he knows many thing about the villages etc...

[Kaspias]

The problem with Greek samples is they didn't separate them into different regions. Slavic admixture in Greeks is not surprise. We can see the difference between Modern and Ancient Greeks clearly. To be honest, the chance mixing with Greeks in North is more than Greeks in South and Islands for us.

It seems Greek samples divided between Albanian and Central Anatolian Greeks when you pick GREEKGRALPOP16 in your models. I have slightly more Albanian than you in your Model I which is highly unlikely for me.

I think that my Model II is more accurate. I picked Italian Abruzzo because it is very possible to represent our native Balkan ancestry. Here is the Bulgaria_IA, I used program ''R''.


[1] "1. CLOSEST SINGLE ITEM DISTANCE%"
Italian_Abruzzo Italian_Tuscan Sicilian_East Italian_South Sicilian_West
4.087096 4.473999 4.720308 4.776835 5.043692
Greek Greek_Crete Albanian
5.239672 5.340891 5.496453

[1] "distance%=2.9509"

BGR_IA

Italian_Abruzzo,40.4
Sardinian,21.6
Italian_Tuscan,13.4
Greek_Crete,11
Albanian,5.2
Greek_Central_Anatolia,3.6
Cypriot,3.2
Greek,0.4
Greek_Trabzon,0.4
Italian_Jew,0.4
Italian_Bergamo,0.2
Italian_South,0.2



Added Karakartal's father,

https://i.ibb.co/SKRYV2s/ATB5.png

The problem is there is no clear decisive line between some of Greek samples and Macedonians-Bulgarians. It seems G25 also has its own calculator effect. Compare both models:

https://i.ibb.co/3rdvH2T/ATB2.png
https://i.ibb.co/M8XFNsH/Ads-z2.png

If one would really have Northern Greek admixture then s/he would score like 20-30% South Greek and the rest is Bulgarian-Macedonian. Northern Greeks carry some amounts of Southern Greek admixture which provide to differ them from the Slavic speaker populations.

In your case scoring Romanian represents possibly Vlach admixture, in my opinion. In addition, i should add i agree with your Anatolian admixture statement. Here my explanation:

We use Bulgarian and Macedonian averages to model ourselves. But our ancestry is from either Thrace or Southern Macedonia. Thracian Bulgarians modeling like 80% Bulgarian + 20% Levant(East-Med) or Southern Macedonians plot like 50% Bulgarian + 50% Northern Greek etc etc.. This causes to shifting East than the average which means Greek_Central_Anatolia also may be a proxy to represent it. It is not necessarily Anatolian input as long as you don't get more than 10%.

[Thracian]

The problem is there is no clear decisive line between some of Greek samples and Macedonians-Bulgarians. It seems G25 also has its own calculator effect. Compare both models:

https://i.ibb.co/3rdvH2T/ATB2.png
https://i.ibb.co/M8XFNsH/Ads-z2.png

If one would really have Northern Greek admixture then s/he would score like 20-30% South Greek and the rest is Bulgarian-Macedonian. Northern Greeks carry some amounts of Southern Greek admixture which provide to differ them from the Slavic speaker populations.

In your case scoring Romanian represents possibly Vlach admixture, in my opinion. In addition, i should add i agree with your Anatolian admixture statement. Here my explanation:

We use Bulgarian and Macedonian averages to model ourselves. But our ancestry is from either Thrace or Southern Macedonia. Thracian Bulgarians modeling like 80% Bulgarian + 20% Levant(East-Med) or Southern Macedonians plot like 50% Bulgarian + 50% Northern Greek etc etc.. This causes to shifting East than the average which means Greek_Central_Anatolia also may be a proxy to represent it. It is not necessarily Anatolian input as long as you don't get more than 10%.

Yes, it obviously has its own calculator effect.

I agree with you. An ethnic Greek from the North, should also score South Greek as well.

I don't know. I have many Romanian relatives on 23andMe, MyHeritage, FTDNA and Gedmatch. Also, Veliko Tarnovo is not very far away from the border. It could be related with Vlachs or Romanians. Or maybe just a proxy for Northern Bulgarian ancestry.

I agree with your conclusion.

[Impaler]

Guys, I hope you do not mind if I post my model too. :) Just for fun

http://i.imgur.com/RnMVZKu.png (https://imgur.com/RnMVZKu)



http://i.imgur.com/qd2NoDg.png (https://imgur.com/qd2NoDg)

[Thracian]

Guys, I hope you do not mind if I post my model too. :) Just for fun

http://i.imgur.com/RnMVZKu.png (https://imgur.com/RnMVZKu)



http://i.imgur.com/qd2NoDg.png (https://imgur.com/qd2NoDg)

You are free bro. You can post more if you want :)

The fits look good though, btw.

[Kaspias]

Balkan Turks have Yörük ancestry, and Yörüks back then were probably even less mixed (or not at all) than today.


This is not true. As I mentioned before, at least three major and a few minor migrations happened. The biggest one happened after Celali Rebellion and many Turkmens resettled Balkans by force. Kaspias probably knows better than me, he knows many thing about the villages etc...

I don't know what people exactly mean with "Yörük" because i have never heard this term before living in Turkey. If you mean Oghuz(so conqueror Turkic) ancestry with that, yes you're right. But i don't think today's Anatolian Yörüks and the Turkic people who migrated to the Balkans were the same. These "Yörüks" were remnants of first Turkic settlers of Balkans, who actually settled in 1350-1500s but some of died in wars since they were major manpower of the army:

https://i.ibb.co/wgQRs8d/vize.png
https://i.ibb.co/6FFk4zg/t-rhala.png
https://i.ibb.co/NTf48mv/tanr-da.png
https://i.ibb.co/J3FqG1c/nald-ken.png


Although i clearly need more research to make precise comments, i evaluate settling in the Balkans with 4 different branch, with one addition to the Thracian

I. Tatars(the main population settled in Eastern parts of today's North Macedonia, Southwest Bulgaria, Southeastern Serbia, Kosovo, Dobruja, Central-East Bulgaria) -> Except Dobruja and Central-East Bulgaria, these resettlements occurred before the 1500s. So they melted among the native population just like Oghuz's.
II. Conqueror Oghuz's - 1352-1500s (the main population settled in Eastern Thrace, Western Thrace, Eastern Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Thessaly, Epirus, Eastern, Central, Northern Bulgaria as a whole, North Macedonia as a whole, Southern parts of Wallachia)
III. Rebellions - 1500s-1800s (the main population settled in North Macedonia, Sandzak, Bosnia, Northern Thrace, Hungary, Serbia)

IV. Resettling after the resettling - By Ottomans lost their lands in the Balkans, the Turks who live in these lands either killed or fled. The reason we see a lot of "Thessaloniki migrator" in Turkey is not because of there were a lot of ethnic Turks, it was because of all Turks who come from Bosnia, Sandzak, Macedonia grouped in Thessaloniki as their last station in the Balkans. Also, the Turks who settled in Hungary and Wallachia resettled in Central Bulgaria(today's Alevi's). It is very sad to say for me but according to the stats i have reached so far, about 65% of the total ethnic Turk population "disappeared" after the Russo-Turkish and Balkan Wars.

Want to give a general information about migration history of Balkan Turks:


Greece

The small Muslim population was largely expelled from Serbia in the early 1800s, but the effective beginning of the Turkish exodus from Southeastern Europe 1800 came in Greece. After the Greek Rebellion of
1822 to 1830 all of the Turks of the new Greek Kingdom were gone; all had either migrated or died. When Greece expanded to the north in 1880, 70,000 more Turks left the occupied territories for the Ottoman Empire. By the time Greece formally annexed Crete in 1913, all but a few of the Cretan Turks had been expelled.

Russo-Turkish War(93 Harbi)


The 1877 Russian invasion of Ottoman Europe led to the flight of 515,000 and the deaths of 288,000 Bulgarian Muslims, nearly all Turks. Only 46% of the Bulgarian Muslims remained. In exchange, 187,000 Bulgarians from what remained in Ottoman Europe went to Bulgaria. By percentage, the worst losses in the period took place among the Muslims in regions taken by Montenegro, Serbia and Romania. In the lands taken by Montenegro all of the Muslims were gone, in the lands taken by Serbia, 91% (119,000) were gone, in the lands taken by Romania 83% (152,000) were gone. Bosnian Muslims fled during a Serbian revolt in 1875 and after a failed Muslim revolt against Austrian occupation of Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1881-2.

Balkan Wars


At the onset of the Balkan Wars, the Muslim population of Ottoman Europe was slightly over 50%—Turks in the East, Albanians in the West. Population numbers, however, were not a concern to Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, and Bulgaria. Each coveted the parts of Ottoman Europe that they viewed as their ancestral homelands. The problem was that each desired the same property. They joined together to defeat the Ottomans in the first Balkan War, then fought among themselves for the spoils. Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, and Romania attacked Bulgaria. The Ottomans also attacked Bulgaria to reclaim some land in Europe.

Of the Christian peoples, it was the Bulgarians who lost most: 100,000 Bulgarians fled to Bulgaria from Ottoman Thrace and from the lands conquered by the other Balkan countries. It was the Muslims, however, who most suffered. 27% of the Turks of Ottoman Europe died and 18% were surviving refugees. No one counted the numbers lost in the great slaughter and dispossession of Albanians in the West.


Turkish War of Independence


An unknown number of Greeks, perhaps 100,000, went from Western Anatolia to Greece before World War I began, affected by anti-Greek economic pressure after the Balkan Wars. Aided especially by the British, the Greek Army invaded Western Anatolia in 1919. They immediately began attacks on Turkish villages and cities, ultimately forcing 1.2 million Turks from their homes in Western Anatolia and an unknown number from Thrace (what had remained of Ottoman Europe after the Balkan Wars). The Turkish Nationalists, led by Mustafa Kemal, defeated the Greeks by 1922. It was then the turn of the Greeks to take flight. A post-war agreement exchanged the Greeks of Turkey (excepting Istanbul) for the Turks of Greece (excepting Eastern Thrace). 850,000 Greeks were exchanged for 480,000 Turks. 530,000 Turks and 310,000 Greeks had died.


Tatars

The Russian Empire expanded to the south. When it annexed the Crimea in 1779 approximately 100,000 Crimean Tatars (Turks who had lived there for centuries) fled the Crimea and surrounding areas for the Ottoman Empire. Immediately after the Crimean War, they were joined by a further 300,000 Crimean Tatars and an unknown number of Nogay Tatars. Their place was taken by Christian subjects of the Tsar.


The death toll in these wars and dislocations was tremendous. The dead on all sides were mainly civilians, and many more died from disease and starvation than were directly killed by their enemies. But consideration should be given to the calamity that struck even those refugees who survived. It was a life of hunger in refugee camps or begging on the streets—homes and farms gone forever. Many made new lives, but saw them ruined again. A Turkish farmer who was forced out of Bulgaria at age 20 in 1878 might have fled to Ottoman Europe, where he survived, perhaps even prospered. Again forced out in 1912, he might have lived as a penniless settler near İzmir. In his old age, disaster struck again as he was forced to flee from İzmir in 1919. Most likely he would have left dead family and friends behind in each place, killed by the invaders who drove him from his home.

https://i.ibb.co/hdddrZn/Ads-z.png
https://i.ibb.co/8dhbtVy/Ads-z23.png

*Source of the infographics is Justin McCarthy.

[migrec]

I wonder how mine would look in this... whatever it is that I'm looking at... haha

[Kaspias]

I wonder how mine would look in this... whatever it is that I'm looking at... haha

http://bga101.blogspot.com/2018/02/the-powerful-global-25-now-available.html

You can buy G25 coordinates here, if you interested.

[karakartal]

Which ancient populations close our shared ancestry? Could you please doin' modelling in G25?

[Thracian]

I don't know what people exactly mean with "Yörük" because i have never heard this term before living in Turkey. If you mean Oghuz(so conqueror Turkic) ancestry with that, yes you're right. But i don't think today's Anatolian Yörüks and the Turkic people who migrated to the Balkans were the same. These "Yörüks" were remnants of first Turkic settlers of Balkans, who actually settled in 1350-1500s but some of died in wars since they were major manpower of the army:

https://i.ibb.co/wgQRs8d/vize.png
https://i.ibb.co/6FFk4zg/t-rhala.png
https://i.ibb.co/NTf48mv/tanr-da.png
https://i.ibb.co/J3FqG1c/nald-ken.png


Although i clearly need more research to make precise comments, i evaluate settling in the Balkans with 4 different branch, with one addition to the Thracian

I. Tatars(the main population settled in Eastern parts of today's North Macedonia, Southwest Bulgaria, Southeastern Serbia, Kosovo, Dobruja, Central-East Bulgaria) -> Except Dobruja and Central-East Bulgaria, these resettlements occurred before the 1500s. So they melted among the native population just like Oghuz's.
II. Conqueror Oghuz's - 1352-1500s (the main population settled in Eastern Thrace, Western Thrace, Eastern Macedonia, Thessaloniki, Thessaly, Epirus, Eastern, Central, Northern Bulgaria as a whole, North Macedonia as a whole, Southern parts of Wallachia)
III. Rebellions - 1500s-1800s (the main population settled in North Macedonia, Sandzak, Bosnia, Northern Thrace, Hungary, Serbia)

IV. Resettling after the resettling - By Ottomans lost their lands in the Balkans, the Turks who live in these lands either killed or fled. The reason we see a lot of "Thessaloniki migrator" in Turkey is not because of there were a lot of ethnic Turks, it was because of all Turks who come from Bosnia, Sandzak, Macedonia grouped in Thessaloniki as their last station in the Balkans. Also, the Turks who settled in Hungary and Wallachia resettled in Central Bulgaria(today's Alevi's). It is very sad to say for me but according to the stats i have reached so far, about 65% of the total ethnic Turk population "disappeared" after the Russo-Turkish and Balkan Wars.

Want to give a general information about migration history of Balkan Turks:


Greece

The small Muslim population was largely expelled from Serbia in the early 1800s, but the effective beginning of the Turkish exodus from Southeastern Europe 1800 came in Greece. After the Greek Rebellion of
1822 to 1830 all of the Turks of the new Greek Kingdom were gone; all had either migrated or died. When Greece expanded to the north in 1880, 70,000 more Turks left the occupied territories for the Ottoman Empire. By the time Greece formally annexed Crete in 1913, all but a few of the Cretan Turks had been expelled.

Russo-Turkish War(93 Harbi)


The 1877 Russian invasion of Ottoman Europe led to the flight of 515,000 and the deaths of 288,000 Bulgarian Muslims, nearly all Turks. Only 46% of the Bulgarian Muslims remained. In exchange, 187,000 Bulgarians from what remained in Ottoman Europe went to Bulgaria. By percentage, the worst losses in the period took place among the Muslims in regions taken by Montenegro, Serbia and Romania. In the lands taken by Montenegro all of the Muslims were gone, in the lands taken by Serbia, 91% (119,000) were gone, in the lands taken by Romania 83% (152,000) were gone. Bosnian Muslims fled during a Serbian revolt in 1875 and after a failed Muslim revolt against Austrian occupation of Bosnia-Herzegovina in 1881-2.

Balkan Wars


At the onset of the Balkan Wars, the Muslim population of Ottoman Europe was slightly over 50%—Turks in the East, Albanians in the West. Population numbers, however, were not a concern to Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, and Bulgaria. Each coveted the parts of Ottoman Europe that they viewed as their ancestral homelands. The problem was that each desired the same property. They joined together to defeat the Ottomans in the first Balkan War, then fought among themselves for the spoils. Serbia, Montenegro, Greece, and Romania attacked Bulgaria. The Ottomans also attacked Bulgaria to reclaim some land in Europe.

Of the Christian peoples, it was the Bulgarians who lost most: 100,000 Bulgarians fled to Bulgaria from Ottoman Thrace and from the lands conquered by the other Balkan countries. It was the Muslims, however, who most suffered. 27% of the Turks of Ottoman Europe died and 18% were surviving refugees. No one counted the numbers lost in the great slaughter and dispossession of Albanians in the West.


Turkish War of Independence


An unknown number of Greeks, perhaps 100,000, went from Western Anatolia to Greece before World War I began, affected by anti-Greek economic pressure after the Balkan Wars. Aided especially by the British, the Greek Army invaded Western Anatolia in 1919. They immediately began attacks on Turkish villages and cities, ultimately forcing 1.2 million Turks from their homes in Western Anatolia and an unknown number from Thrace (what had remained of Ottoman Europe after the Balkan Wars). The Turkish Nationalists, led by Mustafa Kemal, defeated the Greeks by 1922. It was then the turn of the Greeks to take flight. A post-war agreement exchanged the Greeks of Turkey (excepting Istanbul) for the Turks of Greece (excepting Eastern Thrace). 850,000 Greeks were exchanged for 480,000 Turks. 530,000 Turks and 310,000 Greeks had died.


Tatars

The Russian Empire expanded to the south. When it annexed the Crimea in 1779 approximately 100,000 Crimean Tatars (Turks who had lived there for centuries) fled the Crimea and surrounding areas for the Ottoman Empire. Immediately after the Crimean War, they were joined by a further 300,000 Crimean Tatars and an unknown number of Nogay Tatars. Their place was taken by Christian subjects of the Tsar.


The death toll in these wars and dislocations was tremendous. The dead on all sides were mainly civilians, and many more died from disease and starvation than were directly killed by their enemies. But consideration should be given to the calamity that struck even those refugees who survived. It was a life of hunger in refugee camps or begging on the streets—homes and farms gone forever. Many made new lives, but saw them ruined again. A Turkish farmer who was forced out of Bulgaria at age 20 in 1878 might have fled to Ottoman Europe, where he survived, perhaps even prospered. Again forced out in 1912, he might have lived as a penniless settler near İzmir. In his old age, disaster struck again as he was forced to flee from İzmir in 1919. Most likely he would have left dead family and friends behind in each place, killed by the invaders who drove him from his home.

https://i.ibb.co/hdddrZn/Ads-z.png
https://i.ibb.co/8dhbtVy/Ads-z23.png

*Source of the infographics is Justin McCarthy.

Awesome. Thanks a lot.

I put your IV as minor migration. Yoruk means Turkmen nomads in Anatolia. I don't think Yourks are the main Turkic element for Balkan Turks.

[Thracian]

Which ancient populations close our shared ancestry? Could you please doin' modelling in G25?

It should be very different for all of us.

[Kaspias]

Awesome. Thanks a lot.

I put your IV as minor migration. Yoruk means Turkmen nomads in Anatolia. I don't think Yourks are the main Turkic element for Balkan Turks.

IV is actually part of mass migration to the Anatolia but has lesser effects on the gene pool. In the pictures which i posted "Yörük" represent Oghuzs who settled in the Balkans before rebellions, so it doesn't have the same meaning with Anatolian Yörüks