Origin of E-V13

[Daos777]

Where do you think this haplogroup came from?


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[Ayetooey]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY

[MiloshN]

Central Africa -> North Africa -> Europe ...

[Ayetooey]

Central Africa -> North Africa -> Europe ...

To be real; e-v13 itself probably originated in west Asia; before moving into Europe. Basal E and other clades of E1b including the predecessor clade of E-v13 are African; but the e-v13 subclade wasn't itself born in Africa.

"It was concluded that northeastern Africa, rather than eastern Africa, was where the E-M78 chromosomes began dispersing to other regions.[35] The most plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in Western Asia.[36] A hypothesis is that E-M78 carriers devoid of V13 mutation left Africa and that the coalescene occurred later in the Near East/Anatolia.[36] Data suggests that Western Asian carriers of V13 expanded in Europe at earliest 5300 years ago.[36] The TMRCA of European V13 is 4700–4000 years ago.[36] Phylogenetic analysis suggest that the European v13 spread through Europe from the Balkans in a "rapid demographic expansion".[36]"

[Daos777]

Central Africa -> North Africa -> Europe ...

What specific peoples/civilizations brought it to Europe? Which ancient European civilizations do you think had it in high numbers? Thracians? Illyrians? Greek?


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[Aspirin]

Are you E-V13?

[Blondie]

What specific peoples/civilizations brought it to Europe? Which ancient European civilizations do you think had it in high numbers? Thracians? Illyrians? Greek?


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Neolithic farmers.

[Ayetooey]

Neolithic famers.

Neolithic farmers tested have only 1% E1b actually; only G2a and I2a are significant lineages found among the neolithic farmers. E-v13 grew later on through some sort of rapid founder effect/population boom.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491704559228551192/607618227123519489/unknown.png



"For many years the vast majority of academics have assumed that E-V13 and other E1b1b lineages came to the Balkans from the southern Levant via Anatolia during the Neolithic, and that the high frequency of E-V13 was caused by a founder effect among the colonisers. This theory has it that E1b1b people were associated with the development of Neolithic lifestyle and the advent of agriculture in the Fertile Crescent and its earliest diffusion to Southeast Europe (Thessalian Neolithic) and Mediterranean Europe (Cardium Pottery culture). The testing of ancient DNA from the Natufian culture (Mesolithic Levant) and Pre-Pottery Neolithic Levant confirmed a high incidence of haplogroup E1b1b in that region. However, out of 69 Y-DNA samples tested from Neolithic Europe, only two belonged to that haplogroup: one E-M78 from the Sopot culture in Hungary (5000-4800 BCE), another E-M78 (c. 5000 BCE), possibly E-V13, from north-east Spain, and a E-L618 from Zemunica cave near Split in Croatia from 5500 BCE (Fernandes et al., 2016). Whether these E-M78 samples came with Neolithic farmers from the Near East or were already present among Mesolithic Europeans is unclear at present. But in any case E-V13 was definitely not the major Neolithic European lineage it was once alleged to be.

Nowadays E-V13 is the only Mediterranean haplogroup consistently found throughout Europe, even in Norway, Sweden, Finland and Baltic countries, which are conspicuous by the absence of other Neolithic haplogroups like G2a (bar the Indo-European G2a-Z1815), J1 and T (except in Estonia). However, since G2a is the only lineage that was consistently found in all Neolithic sites tested to date in Europe, the absence of Neolithic G2a lineages from Scandinavia and the Baltic implies that no Neolithic lineage survives there, and consequently E-V13 does not date from the Neolithic in the region.

In fact, it has been calculated that E-V13 emerged from E-M78 some 7,800 years ago, when Neolithic farmers were advancing into the Balkans and the Danubian basin. Furthermore, all the modern members of E-V13 descend from a common ancestor who lived approximately 5,500 years ago, and all of them also descend from a later common ancestor who carried the CTS5856 mutation. That ancestor would have lived about 4,100 years ago, during the Bronze Age. Almost immediately afterwards, CTS5856 split into six subclades, then branched off into even more subclades in the space of a few generations. In just a few centuries, that very minor E-V13 lineage had started an expansion process that would turn it into one of Europe's most widespread paternal lineages and reach far beyond the borders of Europe itself, also spreading to the eastern edge of the Mediterranean, the Caucasus, Kurdistan, Iran, and even Siberia.

This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe."

[Coastal Elite]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FTQbiNvZqaY

lol...I do wish there was less mystery about E-V13. Seems like there is more speculation than good research. Interesting to see it distributed as far north as Estonia (4.05%).

[Kaspias]

Gagarin brought it with Vostok from the orbit in order to form a new haplogroup in the Balkans to support Russia's Pan-Slavist ideas.

[Daos777]

Are you E-V13?

Yeah.


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[Ülev]

Gagarin brought it with Vostok from the orbit in order to form a new haplogroup in the Balkans to support Russia's Pan-Slavist ideas.

I confirm that

[Ayetooey]

lol...I do wish there was less mystery about E-V13. Seems like there is more speculation than good research. Interesting to see it distributed as far north as Estonia (4.05%).

It distributes pretty much all over Europe; yet every neolithic site we find has only G2a, and sometimes I2a. Which implies that E-v13 was not wide spread at all, and the population boom happened later on. Interesting considering G2a which was 61% of all neolithic European Y dnas, is now very low throughout Europe. I think E-v13 thrived when the PIE came to Europe, as the piece I linked above suggests.

"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe.""

E-v13 was more than likely an elite haplogroup within these early PIE cultures hence the population boom.

[Daos777]

To be real; e-v13 itself probably originated in west Asia; before moving into Europe. Basal E and other clades of E1b including the predecessor clade of E-v13 are African; but the e-v13 subclade wasn't itself born in Africa.

"It was concluded that northeastern Africa, rather than eastern Africa, was where the E-M78 chromosomes began dispersing to other regions.[35] The most plausible scenario is that E-V13 originated in Western Asia.[36] A hypothesis is that E-M78 carriers devoid of V13 mutation left Africa and that the coalescene occurred later in the Near East/Anatolia.[36] Data suggests that Western Asian carriers of V13 expanded in Europe at earliest 5300 years ago.[36] The TMRCA of European V13 is 4700–4000 years ago.[36] Phylogenetic analysis suggest that the European v13 spread through Europe from the Balkans in a "rapid demographic expansion".[36]"


http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html?m=1

“Who was the E-V13 patriarch in Greece? He was perhaps one of the legendary figures of Greek mythology some of whom are said to have come from abroad. For whatever reason, his progeny grew, and were around to participate in the expansion of the Mycenaean world and the subsequent Greek colonization.“



We wuz patriarchal legendary Greeks and sheit.


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[Jana]

Yup, G2a is original Anatolian farmer lineage, later they absorbed I2a hunter gatherers who switched to farming (Basque-Sardinian clade if I am not mistaken)

E-V13 and J2 are later entries into Europe.

[Jana]

http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2008/07/expansion-of-e-v13-explained.html?m=1

“Who was the E-V13 patriarch in Greece? He was perhaps one of the legendary figures of Greek mythology some of whom are said to have come from abroad. For whatever reason, his progeny grew, and were around to participate in the expansion of the Mycenaean world and the subsequent Greek colonization.“



We wuz patriarchal legendary Greeks and sheit.


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E-V13 might ve Pelasgian/Sea Peoples marker, thats my guess.

[Daos777]

E-V13 might ve Pelasgian/Sea Peoples marker, thats my guess.

This makes complete sense in my mind.

In my opinion E-V13 had to be a descendant of a Natufian (E1b was one of their main Y-Haplos) derived culture which lived along the Mediterranean coast around the Levant. They spread into Greece, Greek Islands, Adriatic coast and eventually Italian coast(Etruscans). All regions that were not heavily populated by European hunter gathers and Neolithic farmers. Pelasgians are the only people to fit this description.


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[Daos777]

This makes complete sense in my mind.

In my opinion E-V13 had to be a descendant of a Natufian (E1b was one of their main Y-Haplos) derived culture which lived along the Mediterranean coast around the Levant. They spread into Greece, Greek Islands, Adriatic coast and eventually Italian coast(Etruscans). All regions that were not heavily populated by European hunter gathers and Neolithic farmers. Pelasgians are the only people to fit this description.


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A parent to E-V13 was found among the Iberomaursian culture

“The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*)”

Also haplogroup E being African is complete BS. Haplogroup E did not develop in Africa. It developed in the Levant/Middle East. Then it migrated to Africa conquering the negroids and taking their thick chocolate women away.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/cadcdec52fa5af8c4aa36cb41cc6f5d6.jpg


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[Daos777]

A parent to E-V13 was found among the Iberomaursian culture

“The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*)”

Also haplogroup E being African is complete BS. Haplogroup E did not develop in Africa. It developed in the Levant/Middle East. Then it migrated to Africa conquering the negroids and taking their thick chocolate women away.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/cadcdec52fa5af8c4aa36cb41cc6f5d6.jpg


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Bump


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[Coastal Elite]

A parent to E-V13 was found among the Iberomaursian culture

“The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*)”

Also haplogroup E being African is complete BS. Haplogroup E did not develop in Africa. It developed in the Levant/Middle East. Then it migrated to Africa conquering the negroids and taking their thick chocolate women away.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190804/cadcdec52fa5af8c4aa36cb41cc6f5d6.jpg


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I'm just learning about it myself but seems like a hell of a haplogroup. Lots of people here are jealous of it. It's hard to get a straight answer on TA because everyone is a cheerleader/PR person for their own haplogroup. Anyway, this is a map showing that E-V13 dudes impregnated chicks throughout Europe:

https://i.imgur.com/btt6xJf.gif

[Daos777]

I'm just learning about it myself but seems like a hell of a haplogroup. Lots of people here are jealous of it. It's hard to get a straight answer on TA because everyone is a cheerleader/PR person for their own haplogroup. Anyway, this is a map showing that E-V13 dudes impregnated chicks throughout Europe:

https://i.imgur.com/btt6xJf.gif

Lol thats what I hate about people in general lack of objectivity. I honestly don’t care if it came from god damn Tanzania just show me the proof. What doesn’t add up to me is parent clades being found in North Africa(oldest) and Spain(Mesolithic). And outside of the Natufian samples no more recent E-V13 parent clades were found in the Levant where it supposedly came from. That’s kind of weird to me.


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[jingorex]

Neolithic farmers tested have only 1% E1b actually; only G2a and I2a are significant lineages found among the neolithic farmers. E-v13 grew later on through some sort of rapid founder effect/population boom.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491704559228551192/607618227123519489/unknown.png

What about G1?

[Tauromachos]

Evolved from early Neolithic Farmers who settled in Europe via a particular mutation.

Probably these Farmers lived first mainly in South East Europe and from there spread into different directions

[PaleoEuropean]

What specific peoples/civilizations brought it to Europe? Which ancient European civilizations do you think had it in high numbers? Thracians? Illyrians? Greek?


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Neolithic Farmers

[PaleoEuropean]

What about G1?

G is more Iranian centered, but also Neolithic Farmers.

[Daos777]

Neolithic Farmers

But why is it almost non existent in Neolithic farmer samples?


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[catgeorge]

Egyptian origins - Cypro-Crete had a decent amount of ancient cultural similarities with ancient Egyptians.
Sesklo & Dimini cultures was 70% E and first known neolithic culture in Europe 10,000 years ago.

[Tauromachos]

Egyptian origins - Cypro-Crete had a decent amount of ancient cultural similarities with ancient Egyptians.

Hm yeah but Crete is the place in Greece with the lowest EV13 actually


Sesklo & Dimini cultures was 70% E and first known neolithic culture in Europe 10,000 years ago.

+1

[PaleoEuropean]

But why is it almost lacking in Neolithic farmer samples?


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Neolithic Farmers is a pretty loose term, E and G probably trickled in long before the actually farming boom. But E wasn't the main lineage so I assume it was more dispersed and less remains have been found.

[catgeorge]

Hm yeah but Crete is the place in Greece with the lowest EV13 actually



+1

I didnt say they mated like crazy I said their was likely contacts trade or other. Maybe one of the E tribes travelled further into Greek mainland and grew that two separate tribes developed later known as Sesklo and Dimini.

[Coastal Elite]

I think E-V13 could have a connection to Vinca culture, one of the earliest civilization in Europe. This is an interesting blog post: http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2015/06/ancient-dna-from-carpathian-basin-5700.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_culture

[Tauromachos]

I didnt say they mated like crazy I said their was likely contacts trade or other. Maybe one of the E tribes travelled further into Greek mainland and grew that two separate tribes developed later known as Sesklo and Dimini.


Yeah why i found that interesting or remarkable was because one might ask wether the Minoans or Eteocretans had high EV13 but it seems not because
todays Cretans have lower than rest of Greeks and even Cretans have received many later influences from Dorians"and what not" they are among todays
Greeks still the population genetically closest to Minoans.

But most interesting is the second part because Sesklo and Dimini are where the oldest samples have been found(i think) which would mean
that EV13 originated in Greece or is native to Greece

[Glauk]

I think E-V13 could have a connection to Vinca culture, one of the earliest civilization in Europe. This is an interesting blog post: http://dispatchesfromturtleisland.blogspot.com/2015/06/ancient-dna-from-carpathian-basin-5700.html

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vin%C4%8Da_culture


Shhhh, the serbs must not hear this

[Cristiano viejo]

Africa, this is known even in the moon.

https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/DNA-borders.png

[Coastal Elite]

Africa, this is known even in the moon.

https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/DNA-borders.png

Let's see those DNA results. I guessing 15% North African for you.

[Daos777]

Africa, this is known even in the moon.

https://mk0brilliantmaptxoqs.kinstacdn.com/wp-content/uploads/DNA-borders.png

Why is every sub clade of E just represented by E and the other ones are broken down further? Lmao seems like the guy who made this map saw a 5 minute YouTube video about Haplogroups then made this.


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[Voskos]

It most certainly originated in Eastern Africa and arrived to Europe through contact with Levantines from the mesolithic era onwards.Iirc the Druze themselves have a variant of E-V13.

[Daos777]

It most certainly originated in Eastern Africa and arrived to Europe through contact with Levantines from the mesolithic era onwards.Iirc the Druze themselves have a variant of E-V13.

Well the Natufians were around 40 percent haplogroup E and they are a pre-Mesolithic civilization so that wouldn’t make sense that it only arrived in the Levant during the Mesolithic. Also the formation of E itself did not happen in Africa, the split of DE happened in the Levant and a lot of E back migrated to Africa and who knows were else E people headed after the DE split.

There are some Mesolithic samples of parent clades of E-V13 in Europe but it was only arriving in the Levant at that time?

Also the Druze are a very mixed people comprised of Anatolians, Armenians, caucasians, and some Jews. Who knows were their E came from?


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[Daos777]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20190827/f66e015e7bd25e44e84b617900525531.jpg


This map from Eupedia seems to be pretty accurate in my opinion.


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[Tauromachos]

Well the Natufians were around 40 percent haplogroup E and they are a pre-Mesolithic civilization so that wouldn’t make sense that it only arrived in the Levant during the Mesolithic. Also the formation of E itself did not happen in Africa, the split of DE happened in the Levant and a lot of E back migrated to Africa and who knows were else E people headed after the DE split.

There are some Mesolithic samples of parent clades of E-V13 in Europe but it was only arriving in the Levant at that time?

Also the Druze are a very mixed people comprised of Anatolians, Armenians, caucasians, and some Jews. Who knows were their E came from?


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Since when are Druze a mixed people?

Druze are something like the Gheg Albanians of Lebanon and you think these people are mixed....

[MagnusDark]

In all seriousness E-V13 is European. If you go back far enough we all descend from haplogroup A, which was a spear chucking fighter. Calling V13 African is just as stupid as calling R1b/R1a Mongolian. If you go back far enough R1 was a Siberian Asiatic. You wouldn't question the indo-european nature of their descendants either. The double standard is childish and only presides over racists. V13 had a pivotal role among Bronze Age Indo-European elite. It was also a central lineage of the paleo-balkan tribes, Greeks and Romans.

[MagnusDark]

Since when are Druze a mixed people?

Druze are something like the Gheg Albanians of Lebanon and you think these people are mixed....

Good point. My Druze friend is the same clade of haplogroup T, found in the Neolithic Levant(Ain Ghazal).

[wvwvw]

It most certainly originated in Eastern Africa and arrived to Europe through contact with Levantines from the mesolithic era onwards.Iirc the Druze themselves have a variant of E-V13.

The Druze are Christians, and are most likely to be descended from either Syrian or Bactrian Greeks or Assyrians.

[Daos777]

Since when are Druze a mixed people?

Druze are something like the Gheg Albanians of Lebanon and you think these people are mixed....

I’m just going by this single study. And I don’t know how they got their E-V13 just like I don’t know how Kurds got theirs. Maybe Anatolian Greeks???

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep35837

Either way what he said is bullshit. E did not arrive into Europe only via the Levant. It also did not arrive as late as the Mesolithic in the Levant but much much older than that. Natufian samples and earlier samples prove this.

Most of the experts who study E-V13 now think that it arrived from Mediterranean Sailors and fisherman from North Africa in the Mesolithic and even earlier. The earliest parent clade of E-V13 is found in Eastern Morocco. Not in Eastern Africa where there is no connection to E-V13

“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*). “

If this is all true E-V13 and it’s recent parent clades is the Native South European Haplogroup. And it stretched all the way from Spain to Eastern Greece and its Islands.
This pretty much coincides with the Pelasgian civilization that Greeks referenced.


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[Joso]

Didin't It came with the Natufians?

[catgeorge]

Well the Natufians were around 40 percent haplogroup E and they are a pre-Mesolithic civilization so that wouldn’t make sense that it only arrived in the Levant during the Mesolithic. Also the formation of E itself did not happen in Africa, the split of DE happened in the Levant and a lot of E back migrated to Africa and who knows were else E people headed after the DE split.

There are some Mesolithic samples of parent clades of E-V13 in Europe but it was only arriving in the Levant at that time?

Also the Druze are a very mixed people comprised of Anatolians, Armenians, caucasians, and some Jews. Who knows were their E came from?


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These people barely have any E at all. So its all a mystery to me.

[J. Ketch]

E for Ethiopian.

[catgeorge]

E for Ethiopian.

Yeah but you need to be in the cage. Dirty convict.

[Daos777]

E for Ethiopian.

E is the oldest among modern European Haplogroups. So you should be calling me daddy because chronologically from Y Adam my haplo came first. Lmao


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[Coastal Elite]

E for Ethiopian.

Interesting that E-V13 made it to the far reaches of northern European. Wonder how that happened?

[Daos777]

Interesting that E-V13 made it to the far reaches of northern European. Wonder how that happened?

Angela Merkel allowed those damn Somalis up north!


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[Coastal Elite]

Angela Merkel allowed those damn Somalis up north!


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Lol...that would be the answer wouldn't it.

[J. Ketch]

Interesting that E-V13 made it to the far reaches of northern European. Wonder how that happened?
Coalburners aren't just a modern problem.

[Daos777]

Coalburners aren't just a modern problem.

R1b? Back to the steppe. It even rhymes.


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[Coastal Elite]

Coalburners aren't just a modern problem.

But that is like saying Northern European dudes have been "cucked" since time immemorial.

[J. Ketch]

R1b? Back to the steppe. It even rhymes.


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Maybe in Swahili, not in English.

[Daos777]

Maybe in Swahili, not in English.

In Tanzanian actually. You going to contribute anything worthwhile to the post like proof of what you are claiming or you just going to troll?


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[Coastal Elite]

In Tanzanian actually. You going to contribute anything worthwhile to the post like proof of what you are claiming or you just going to troll?


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He usually has constructive posts but right now he's doing his Varg Vikernes impression

[J. Ketch]

But that is like saying Northern European dudes have been "cucked" since time immemorial.
Lets see, my haplogroup came from Northern Europeans on the Steppe and has since become the most dominant in the world, even in Southern Europe. E-thiopians only established a foothold in SE Europe when it was just farmercucks, and have since wormed their way into 1-5% of the population elsewhere by disguising themselves as white people.

[Smeagol]

The Near East. The only real African haplogroups are A and B. Everything else was introduced by culturally superior Caucasoid conquerors.

[Coastal Elite]

Lets see, my haplogroup came from Northern Europeans on the Steppe and has since become the most dominant in the world, even in Southern Europe. E-thiopians only established a foothold in SE Europe when it was just farmercucks, and have since wormed their way into 1-5% of the population elsewhere by disguising themselves as white people.

"My Hapogroup" Lol...like your on a team. Do you wear a baseball cap that says R1b on it? TA is so fucking nerdy with this Y-DNA shit.

I wasn't even taking about your halpogroup btw, so everything you are saying is beside the point. Is it not enough to be proud of your northern European heritage without shitting on someone else? Is this a self-esteem building exercise for you?

[Daos777]

Lets see, my haplogroup came from Northern Europeans on the Steppe and has since become the most dominant in the world, even in Southern Europe. E-thiopians only established a foothold in SE Europe when it was just farmercucks, and have since wormed their way into 1-5% of the population elsewhere by disguising themselves as white people.

Isn’t R haplogroup associated with smaller penis size due to its relation to a half Mongoloid people from which it emerged?


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[Figaro]

Isn’t R haplogroup associated with smaller penis size due to its relation to a half Mongoloid people from which it emerged?


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Hey, now.

[Daos777]

Hey, now.

JK


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[J. Ketch]

"My Hapogroup" Lol...like your on a team. Do you wear a baseball cap that says R1b on it? TA is so fucking nerdy with this Y-DNA shit.

I wasn't even taking about your halpogroup btw, so everything you are saying is beside the point. Is it not enough to be proud of your northern European heritage without shitting on someone else? Is this a self-esteem building exercise for you?
Pride in my Northern European heritage? What are you on about. You inserted the idea of Northern Europeans being cucked since 'time immemorial' by your fellow E-thiopians, when for the past 5000 years R1b/a men who happen to be Northern have been doing most of the cucking. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

There's no shame in being Ethiopian anyway, I was just trying to educate the OP in a way he could understand.

[Coastal Elite]

Pride in my Northern European heritage? What are you on about. You inserted the idea of Northern Europeans being cucked since 'time immemorial' by your fellow E-thiopians, when for the past 5000 years R1b/a men who happen to be Northern have been doing most of the cucking. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

There's no shame in being Ethiopian anyway, I was just trying to educate the OP in a way he could understand.

When you said that "coalburners" are nothing new, to me that implies that some Northern European dudes must have been standing on the sidelines while their woman...ya know. That's why I made the comment. I wasn't saying E-V13 was the most successful or comparing to other hapagroups. Great, I'm really proud of R1b. Congrats man.

You are right that being Ethiopian is nothing to be ashamed of, they are the only African country not to be colonized by Europeans. I'm ok with wherever it came from.

[J. Ketch]

When you said that "coalburners" are nothing new, to me that implies that some Northern European dudes must have been standing on the sidelines while their woman...ya know. That's why I made the comment. I wasn't saying E-V13 was the most successful or comparing to other hapagroups. Great, I'm really proud of R1b. Congrats man.

You are right that being Ethiopian is nothing to be ashamed of, they are the only African country not to be colonized by Europeans. I ok with wherever it came from.
:thumb001:

[Smeagol]

You are right that being Ethiopian is nothing to be ashamed of, they are the only African country not to be colonized by Europeans.

They were colonized by Italy.

[Daos777]

Pride in my Northern European heritage? What are you on about. You inserted the idea of Northern Europeans being cucked since 'time immemorial' by your fellow E-thiopians, when for the past 5000 years R1b/a men who happen to be Northern have been doing most of the cucking. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the question.

There's no shame in being Ethiopian anyway, I was just trying to educate the OP in a way he could understand.

There is no shame but it doesn’t make sense. E is the reason Ethiopians and Somalians have Caucasoid features that other subsaharan African people don’t. But they are still mostly Sub Saharan African. They don’t represent what ancient E carriers of North Africa and levant would have looked like. We know that because North African hunter gatherers who are the most likely ancestors of E-V13 were not nibbas. Look at the reconstruction of the Afalou man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechta-Afalou

Your assignment of E as strictly Ethiopian or Somalian or whatever the fuck sub Saharan African nation is as stupid as someone who doesn’t know the history of haplogroups assigning R1b as African because it is found in Chad.






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[Coastal Elite]

They were colonized by Italy.

They briefly occupied it so that’s not really colonization.

[Coastal Elite]

There is no shame but it doesn’t make sense. E is the reason Ethiopians and Somalians have Caucasoid features that other subsaharan African people don’t. But they are still mostly Sub Saharan African. They don’t represent what ancient E carriers of North Africa and levant would have looked like. We know that because North African hunter gatherers who are the most likely ancestors of E-V13 were not nibbas. Look at the reconstruction of the Afalou man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechta-Afalou

Your assignment of E as strictly Ethiopian or Somalian or whatever the fuck sub Saharan African nation is as stupid as someone who doesn’t know the history of haplogroups assigning R1b as African because it is found in Chad.






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As was stated earlier, people on TA are partisan cheerleaders for their own haplogroup so don’t expect many people here to give a straight answer regarding E-V13. It’s easy for people to be flippant and make African jokes than gives thoughtful answer. It always a “my haplogroup is the coolest” jerkoff sessions.

[Coastal Elite]

There is no shame but it doesn’t make sense. E is the reason Ethiopians and Somalians have Caucasoid features that other subsaharan African people don’t. But they are still mostly Sub Saharan African. They don’t represent what ancient E carriers of North Africa and levant would have looked like. We know that because North African hunter gatherers who are the most likely ancestors of E-V13 were not nibbas. Look at the reconstruction of the Afalou man.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mechta-Afalou

Your assignment of E as strictly Ethiopian or Somalian or whatever the fuck sub Saharan African nation is as stupid as someone who doesn’t know the history of haplogroups assigning R1b as African because it is found in Chad.






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Deleted...double post

[Daos777]

As was stated earlier, people on TA are partisan cheerleaders for their own haplogroup so don’t expect many people here to give a straight answer regarding E-V13. It’s easy for people to be flippant and make African jokes than gives thoughtful answer. It always a “my haplogroup is the coolest” jerkoff sessions.

Don’t let them get to you.

WE WUZ NORTH AFRICAN CRO MAGNIDS AND SHEIT.

https://mathildasanthropologyblog.wordpress.com/tag/mechtoid/



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[Smeagol]

They briefly occupied it so that’s not really colonization.

It was officially part of the Italian Empire. Still counts. Ethiopia failed to resist European domination.

[Joso]

So It didn't came wirh the Natufians?

[Joso]

Neolithic farmers tested have only 1% E1b actually; only G2a and I2a are significant lineages found among the neolithic farmers. E-v13 grew later on through some sort of rapid founder effect/population boom.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/491704559228551192/607618227123519489/unknown.png

Very informative, bro :thumb001:

[Leto]

Former Russian (1/4 Tatar) member Norka is E-V13.
Bakha (half Uzbek/Iranian, half Russian) is also E-V13.
These guys have zero African ancestry. Don't you guys be ridiculous.

[Joso]

It distributes pretty much all over Europe; yet every neolithic site we find has only G2a, and sometimes I2a. Which implies that E-v13 was not wide spread at all, and the population boom happened later on. Interesting considering G2a which was 61% of all neolithic European Y dnas, is now very low throughout Europe. I think E-v13 thrived when the PIE came to Europe, as the piece I linked above suggests.

"This data suggests that the fate of E-V13 was linked to the elite dominance of Bronze Age society. The geographic distribution of the six main branches show that E-V13 quickly spread to all parts of Europe, but was especially common in Central Europe. The only Bronze Age migration that could account for such a fast and far-reaching dispersal is that of the Proto-Indo-Europeans. At present the most consistent explanation is that E-V13 developed from E-M78 in Central or Eastern Europe during the Neolithic period, and was assimilated by the R1a and R1b Proto-Indo-Europeans around the time that they were leaving the Pontic Steppe to invade the rest of Europe.""

E-v13 was more than likely an elite haplogroup within these early PIE cultures hence the population boom.

So are you suggesting that E-v13 were assimilated by PIE and became an elite hablogroup withing the PIE or did i misundertood you?

[Daos777]

Where did E-V13 originate ?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=31005&share_tid=30814&share_pid=448034&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eeupedia%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fsh owpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D448034&share_type=t


Maciamo is a writer for eupedia and one of the more well versed people on the history of E-V13.



(I will post second link later)



Not talking about the age of E-V13 mutation itself or the most recent common ancestor of modern E-V13 holders.

I am specifically interested in when E entered Europe and specifically E-M78 from which E-V13 descended from because it can’t be attributed to any recent migration from Western Asia or Africa.

Key take aways from Maciamos research.

E-M78 parent clade to E-V13 did not arrive with Neolithic farmers and it did not arrive from Western Asia/Anatolia. Low frequency among Neolithic farmers prove this as was posted. A long with common sense. E-M78 arrived from North African Hunter Gatherers and was present in Southern Europe along the Mediterranean coast, mainland Greece, Adriatic coast since the Mesolithic and possibly Paleolithic(parent E-M215).

The parent clade to E-V13 was found in the Iberomaurisian culture earlier than any Natufian examples. Iberomaursians differed somewhat from Natufians phenotypically and genetically although common dna was shared.

“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*). “

It is this culture that brought haplogroup E to the levant not the other way around. Iberomaurusians predate Natufians and their Mashubian offspring mixed with local unknown levant hunter gathers(most likely of y-haplo CT) to form natufians.

North Africa was full of E-M78 Hunter gatherers until they were eventually replaced by the E-M81 cattle herders. Most of the E in Africa and West Asia today is WAYYYYYY YOUNGER than E-M78 and E-V13.
So how people can say it recently came into Europe descending from these younger subclades is total retardation.

As for its spread throughout Europe. E-V13 carriers were assimilated by the Indo-Europeans. Both R1a and R1b countries have an even share of E-V13 because it was found throughout Southern Europe stretching from Balkans to Portugal. So not only one Indo-European group assimilated them. Beyond that it’s spread can be attributed to Roman and Greek conquests.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Former Russian (1/4 Tatar) member Norka is E-V13.
Bakha (half Uzbek/Iranian, half Russian) is also E-V13.
These guys have zero African ancestry. Don't you guys be ridiculous.

Morley's Y-DNA predictor also put me as possibly E-V13 and my phenotype at least points to Tatar/Central Asian people. Before anyone jumps in I know very well that Y-DNA is not a phenotype predictor and that E-V13 is found in Greece as well.

[Bakha]

Former Russian (1/4 Tatar) member Norka is E-V13.
Bakha (half Uzbek/Iranian, half Russian) is also E-V13.
These guys have zero African ancestry. Don't you guys be ridiculous.

Exactly. But who told you that i am 1/4 persian? I am 1/4Tatar Kazan, 1/4Uzbek Karakalpak. But i agree that my EV-13 is from my Tatarlar ancestors.

[Daos777]

Morley's Y-DNA predictor also put me as possibly E-V13 and my phenotype at least points to Tatar/Central Asian people. Before anyone jumps in I know very well that Y-DNA is not a phenotype predictor and that E-V13 is found in Greece as well.

The E-V13 in Tatars probably got their from the Cuman times. Those Cuman women got some Balcanic Tube Steak.


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[Leto]

Exactly. But who told you that i am 1/4 persian? I am 1/4Tatar Kazan, 1/4Uzbek Karakalpak. But i agree that my EV-13 is from my Tatarlar ancestors.
You are a funny guy who changes his ethnic background almost everyday. I think you don't know yourself.

[Daos777]

Where did E-V13 originate ?
https://r.tapatalk.com/shareLink?share_fid=31005&share_tid=30814&share_pid=448034&url=https%3A%2F%2Fwww%2Eeupedia%2Ecom%2Fforum%2Fsh owpost%2Ephp%3Fp%3D448034&share_type=t


Maciamo is a writer for eupedia and one of the more well versed people on the history of E-V13.



(I will post second link later)



Not talking about the age of E-V13 mutation itself or the most recent common ancestor of modern E-V13 holders.

I am specifically interested in when E entered Europe and specifically E-M78 from which E-V13 descended from because it can’t be attributed to any recent migration from Western Asia or Africa.

Key take aways from Maciamos research.

E-M78 parent clade to E-V13 did not arrive with Neolithic farmers and it did not arrive from Western Asia/Anatolia. Low frequency among Neolithic farmers prove this as was posted. A long with common sense. E-M78 arrived from North African Hunter Gatherers and was present in Southern Europe along the Mediterranean coast, mainland Greece, Adriatic coast since the Mesolithic and possibly Paleolithic(parent E-M215).

The parent clade to E-V13 was found in the Iberomaurisian culture earlier than any Natufian examples. Iberomaursians differed somewhat from Natufians phenotypically and genetically although common dna was shared.

“Loosdrecht et al. (2018) analysed genome-wide data from seven ancient individuals from the Iberomaurusian Grotte des Pigeons site near Taforalt in eastern Morocco. The fossils were directly dated to between 15,100 and 13,900 calibrated years before present. The scientists found that all males belonged to haplogroup E1b1b, common among Afroasiatic males. The male specimens with sufficient nuclear DNA preservation belonged to the paternal haplogroup E1b1b1a1 (M78), with one skeleton bearing the E1b1b1a1b1 parent lineage to E-V13, one male specimen belonged to E1b1b (M215*). “

It is this culture that brought haplogroup E to the levant not the other way around. Iberomaurusians predate Natufians and their Mashubian offspring mixed with local unknown levant hunter gathers(most likely of y-haplo CT) to form natufians.

North Africa was full of E-M78 Hunter gatherers until they were eventually replaced by the E-M81 cattle herders. Most of the E in Africa and West Asia today is WAYYYYYY YOUNGER than E-M78 and E-V13.
So how people can say it recently came into Europe descending from these younger subclades is total retardation.

As for its spread throughout Europe. E-V13 carriers were assimilated by the Indo-Europeans. Both R1a and R1b countries have an even share of E-V13 because it was found throughout Southern Europe stretching from Balkans to Portugal. So not only one Indo-European group assimilated them. Beyond that it’s spread can be attributed to Roman and Greek conquests.


Bump

Any inconsistencies with this theory?

[valentinavalley2]

Yup, G2a is original Anatolian farmer lineage, later they absorbed I2a hunter gatherers who switched to farming (Basque-Sardinian clade if I am not mistaken)

E-V13 and J2 are later entries into Europe.

Haplogroup J is over 20,000 years in Europe, so is G, as for E it might be older then claimed.


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[Daos777]

Haplogroup J is over 20,000 years in Europe, so is G, as for E it might be older then claimed.


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J was not in Europe 20,000 years ago this is complete BS with no evidence it stayed around the Caucasus and Iran when I spit from J. The only IJ man ever tested was in Iran. It’s cousin Y haplo I is probably that old in Europe which is predated by C in Europe.

E-M78 was never found in the Levant only Africa and Europe. Which can only mean direct migration from Africa into Europe. There was contact between North Africa and Southern Europe. We know this to be the case because Iberomaurisans tested for European Cromagnid mtdna and their Y-DNA was E-M78 with one skeleton bearing the direct parent clade to E-V13. E-V13 can only come from these people.

[valentinavalley2]

J was not in Europe 20,000 years ago this is complete BS with no evidence it stayed around the Caucasus and Iran when I spit from J. The only IJ man ever tested was in Iran. It’s cousin Y haplo I is probably that old in Europe which is predated by C in Europe.

E-M78 was never found in the Levant only Africa and Europe. Which can only mean direct migration from Africa into Europe. There was contact between North Africa and Southern Europe. We know this to be the case because Iberomaurisans tested for European Cromagnid mtdna and their Y-DNA was E-M78 with one skeleton bearing the direct parent clade to E-V13. E-V13 can only come from these people.

I know there was a E-V13 found in Spain, in the Catalonia region dating back 7,000 years so in the Balkans it might be older then thought, it’s also found in the UK, from Roman times, but they claim it might be from Thracian or Illyrian soldiers.


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[Daos777]

I know there was a E-V13 found in Spain, in the Catalonia region dating back 7,000 years so in the Balkans it might be older then thought, it’s also found in the UK, from Roman times, but they claim it might be from Thracian or Illyrian soldiers.


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It’s specified that it came from Romans? Can I see the links? Because E-V13 was assimilated by Indo-Europeans and spread through Europe and parts of Asia with the indo-Europeans.


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[valentinavalley2]

It’s specified that it came from Romans? Can I see the links? Because E-V13 was assimilated by Indo-Europeans and spread through Europe and parts of Asia with the indo-Europeans.


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https://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255
https://dnaconsultants.com/right-pew-wrong-church/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/publication/228910663_Haplogroup_E3b1a2_as_a_Possible_Indicato r_of_Settlement_in_Roman_Britain_by_Soldiers_of_Ba lkan_Origin/amp

To me personally I think that Haplogroup E as a whole is the original Sea people or Mediterranean Haplogroup. I doubt it is only 6,000 years old, it actually might be older then though, having said that I don’t take country dna distributions seriously as they are usually used for political gains.


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[MiloshN]

lol, people are arguing about hg xD

[valentinavalley2]

lol, people are arguing about hg xD

I don’t take these country distributions seriously as some countries use them for propaganda or political gains.

[MiloshN]

I don’t take these country distributions seriously as some countries use them for propaganda or political gains.

hgs are only too small a part of us. What matters is what we are today. I am E-V13 but I look a bit like mutated slav but slav. I speak Slavian and write Slav.

[Daos777]

https://www.pnas.org/content/108/45/18255
https://dnaconsultants.com/right-pew-wrong-church/
https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.researchgate.net/publication/228910663_Haplogroup_E3b1a2_as_a_Possible_Indicato r_of_Settlement_in_Roman_Britain_by_Soldiers_of_Ba lkan_Origin/amp

To me personally I think that Haplogroup E as a whole is the original Sea people or Mediterranean Haplogroup. I doubt it is only 6,000 years old, it actually might be older then though, having said that I don’t take country dna distributions seriously as they are usually used for political gains.


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Haplogroup E is old as fuck it’s 5th oldest haplo in the world and therefore it’s very diverse and the separation time between certain subclades can be a enormous, so it’s better to refer specifically to E-M78 to narrow down any significant information as far as Europeans are concerned. E-M78 itself is already estimated to be 28,000 years old. Going further beyond that in history things get murky and you need to be a legit historian/geneticist/anthropologist to not make mistakes because the margin of error is huge going back so far in history with the little evidence that we have right now.

All of European E-V13 have a most common ancestor that is 5,500 years old. But where he came from. Where his ancestors were. When E-M78 entered Europe nobody can answer at this point and if they say they can for sure they are larping because there is no evidence of it and the main theory of Neolithic farmers bringing it is debunked at this point.

As far as sea peoples are concerned I don’t think they were a homogeneous E-V13 people only.

[Daos777]

hgs are only too small a part of us. What matters is what we are today. I am E-V13 but I look a bit like mutated slav but slav. I speak Slavian and write Slav.

It’s worth finding out the truth about the origin of a haplogroup though especially a controversial one such as E-V13

[MiloshN]

It’s worth finding out the truth about the origin of a haplogroup though especially a controversial one such as E-V13

ya, that's nice to know. But the past cannot be changed, the future can.

[valentinavalley2]

Haplogroup E is old as fuck it’s 5th oldest haplo in the world and therefore it’s very diverse and the separation time between certain subclades can be a enormous, so it’s better to refer specifically to E-M78 to narrow down any significant information as far as Europeans are concerned. E-M78 itself is already estimated to be 28,000 years old. Going further beyond that in history things get murky and you need to be a legit historian/geneticist/anthropologist to not make mistakes because the margin of error is huge going back so far in history with the little evidence that we have right now.

All of European E-V13 have a most common ancestor that is 5,500 years old. But where he came from. Where his ancestors were. When E-M78 entered Europe nobody can answer at this point and if they say they can for sure they are larping because there is no evidence of it and the main theory of Neolithic farmers bringing it is debunked at this point.

As far as sea peoples are concerned I don’t think they were a homogeneous E-V13 people only.

Haplogroup E cannot be 5,500 years old in Europe as a skeleton in Spain was found to be older then 7,000 years old. That same Haplogroup is said to be the same as 5 Albanians, and 2 Greeks I think that were tested.


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[Daos777]

Haplogroup E cannot be 5,500 years old in Europe as a skeleton in Spain was found to be older then 7,000 years old.


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You didn’t understand what I said lol. I said modern European E-V13 all come from the same man who lived 5,500 years ago. We don’t know what culture this person belonged to. Where his ancestors came from. Or if he was a a direct descendant of the E-V13 found in Spain.All we know is that he lived 5,500 years ago and all modern E-V13 supposedly come from this man.

[Daos777]

Haplogroup E cannot be 5,500 years old in Europe as a skeleton in Spain was found to be older then 7,000 years old. That same Haplogroup is said to be the same as 5 Albanians, and 2 Greeks I think that were tested.


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Really it was the same subclade of E-V13? Post links.

[valentinavalley2]

You didn’t understand what I said lol. I said modern European E-V13 all come from the same man who lived 5,500 years ago. We don’t know what culture this person belonged to. Where his ancestors came from. Or if he was a a direct descendant of the E-V13 found in Spain.All we know is that he lived 5,500 years ago and all modern E-V13 supposedly come from this man.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20191025/78371e811e25fd841a84dba6efe8d30d.jpg


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[Coastal Elite]

Here is what 23andMe has to say about E-V13, for what it is worth.


Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup E-M78

Your paternal line stems from the common ancestor of haplogroup E-M78, a branch of E that dates back approximately 24,000 years. The earliest carriers of the E-M78 lineage likely lived in a population that moved from eastern Africa into northeastern Africa about 14,000 years ago, during the final days of the Ice Age. From northeastern Africa, their descendants expanded to the west between the Sahara and the Mediterranean coastline, and to the east out of Africa into the Middle East, where E-M78 men remain common.

Today, men bearing this haplogroup are also common in southern Europe, including in the Balkans, Iberia, and Italy. In Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania, between 15% and 30% of men bear haplogroup E-M78. Their ancestors were likely relatively late arrivals to the region. While some branches of haplogroup E were carried into Europe nearly 8,000 years ago, recent research suggests that the major spread of E-M78 occurred in the last 5,000 years or so during the Bronze Age. Bronze Age cultures learned to smelt tin and copper to create beautiful and complex bronze items like hardier tools and weapons. They journeyed along river waterways in the Balkans and spread into east-central Europe. Today, men from Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia all carry E-M78 at levels of nearly 10%.

While the majority of E-M78 European males trace their recent ancestry to Turkey and the Middle East, some men carrying E-M78 from Spain, Italy and Greece trace their ancestry directly from North African populations, probably within the last 4,000 years. The ancestors of these men must have sailed across the Mediterranean Sea and settled in communities along the European coast.

Your paternal haplogroup, E-V13, traces back to a man who lived approximately 11,000 years ago.
That's nearly 440.0 generations ago! What happened between then and now? As researchers and citizen scientists discover more about your haplogroup, new details may be added to the story of your paternal line.

Your haplogroup migrated in large numbers from the Balkans into Europe about 4,500 years ago, triggered by the beginning of the Balkan Bronze Age. During this migration, members of your haplogroup mainly followed rivers connecting the southern Balkans to northern-central Europe. Technological leaps often cause lineages to grow dramatically in numbers and in geographic range. The development of Bronze technology may have given men in your lineage a competitive advantage over other men, causing your lineage to proliferate and become widespread.

References
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351267
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27111036
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26108492

[Daos777]

Here is what 23andMe has to say about E-V13, for what it is worth.


Origin and Migrations of Haplogroup E-M78

Your paternal line stems from the common ancestor of haplogroup E-M78, a branch of E that dates back approximately 24,000 years. The earliest carriers of the E-M78 lineage likely lived in a population that moved from eastern Africa into northeastern Africa about 14,000 years ago, during the final days of the Ice Age. From northeastern Africa, their descendants expanded to the west between the Sahara and the Mediterranean coastline, and to the east out of Africa into the Middle East, where E-M78 men remain common.

Today, men bearing this haplogroup are also common in southern Europe, including in the Balkans, Iberia, and Italy. In Greece, Bulgaria, and Albania, between 15% and 30% of men bear haplogroup E-M78. Their ancestors were likely relatively late arrivals to the region. While some branches of haplogroup E were carried into Europe nearly 8,000 years ago, recent research suggests that the major spread of E-M78 occurred in the last 5,000 years or so during the Bronze Age. Bronze Age cultures learned to smelt tin and copper to create beautiful and complex bronze items like hardier tools and weapons. They journeyed along river waterways in the Balkans and spread into east-central Europe. Today, men from Ukraine, Hungary, Romania, and Slovakia all carry E-M78 at levels of nearly 10%.

While the majority of E-M78 European males trace their recent ancestry to Turkey and the Middle East, some men carrying E-M78 from Spain, Italy and Greece trace their ancestry directly from North African populations, probably within the last 4,000 years. The ancestors of these men must have sailed across the Mediterranean Sea and settled in communities along the European coast.

Your paternal haplogroup, E-V13, traces back to a man who lived approximately 11,000 years ago.
That's nearly 440.0 generations ago! What happened between then and now? As researchers and citizen scientists discover more about your haplogroup, new details may be added to the story of your paternal line.

Your haplogroup migrated in large numbers from the Balkans into Europe about 4,500 years ago, triggered by the beginning of the Balkan Bronze Age. During this migration, members of your haplogroup mainly followed rivers connecting the southern Balkans to northern-central Europe. Technological leaps often cause lineages to grow dramatically in numbers and in geographic range. The development of Bronze technology may have given men in your lineage a competitive advantage over other men, causing your lineage to proliferate and become widespread.

References
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17351267
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/27111036
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/26108492


“northeastern African origin of E-M78, with a corridor for bidirectional migrations between northeastern and eastern Africa (at least 2 episodes between 23.9-17.3 ky and 18.0-5.9 ky ago), trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky), and flow from northeastern Africa to western Asia between 20.0 and 6.8 ky ago. A single clade within E-M78 (E-V13) highlights a range expansion in the Bronze Age of southeastern Europe”

In their source that they provided it literally says E-M78 migrated to Europe directly from Northern Africa ~13,000 years ago yet they say 4,000 years? Wtf am I misunderstanding something? Lol

Also where is this Levantine E-V13 ancestor? Nothing like that has been found yet the majority of European E-V13 can trace their origins to Middle East and Turkey where no ancestor to E-V13 was ever found. Interesting lol.

My arguments aren’t against you but 23 and me lol. Thanks for the post.

[Coastal Elite]

“northeastern African origin of E-M78, with a corridor for bidirectional migrations between northeastern and eastern Africa (at least 2 episodes between 23.9-17.3 ky and 18.0-5.9 ky ago), trans-Mediterranean migrations directly from northern Africa to Europe (mainly in the last 13.0 ky), and flow from northeastern Africa to western Asia between 20.0 and 6.8 ky ago. A single clade within E-M78 (E-V13) highlights a range expansion in the Bronze Age of southeastern Europe”

In their source that they provided it literally says E-M78 migrated to Europe directly from Northern Africa ~13,000 years ago yet they say 4,000 years? Wtf am I misunderstanding something? Lol

Also where is this Levantine E-V13 ancestor? Nothing like that has been found yet the majority of European E-V13 can trace their origins to Middle East and Turkey where no ancestor to E-V13 was ever found. Interesting lol.

My arguments aren’t against you but 23 and me lol. Thanks for the post.

No problem, that was just a cut and paste. I think the references might good to look at but one is kind of old, 2007 i think.

[Mortimer]

Balkans Bronze Age cultures. Thats what 23andme says.

[Daos777]

Well researched post by user from another forum:



“It is no fantasy whatsoever that E-V13 arrived to Europe directly from North Africa, and that it did not arrive from Levant. This is pre-history and those without archaeological knowledge are basically blind..


So..


There exists archaeological evidence for such migration, in the form of Capsian elements in Late Mesolithic site Crvena Stijena III in modern West Montenegro. What is interesting is that this particular site had direct connections to the site where L618 was found in Dalmatia. 100 % people from Crvena Stijena also participated in some form in Cardial Dalmatian Neolithic culture. Dalmatian Neolithic is known to have had some Meoslithic influence, also autosomally seen in one sample there with a bunch of blue eye mutations and WHG influence.
To quote Yugoslav archaeologist Borivoj Čović:
The culture of Mesolithic inhabitants of Crvena Stijena is firmly tied to the contemporary cultures of Northern Africa, especially to those of so-called Capsian type... The congruence in shapes of a large number of smaller tools (out of which some are highly specialized tools for fine processing of skin and bones) are of such degree that they do not leave much space to doubt, and primarily Northafrican origin not only of these forms but also of the Mesolithic population of Crvena Stijena.


Furthermore going by current genetic evidence the Dalmatian Cardial sample is negative to two SNP's at the L618 level, that in addition to their current spread might be used as evidence to suggest all of current L618, V13- samples are of European origin. For one L618 clade that already seems obvious. Second clade has Latvian-Lebanese connection but this connection is not Neolithic it is 4800 years old. So either the Lebanese is a descendant of L618 who stayed in Levant or he arrived in EBA from Europe, considering the current evidence latter is more likely.


Interestingly as I mentioned here, there was a skull cult throughout the Dalmatian Cardial Neolithic, without any doubt this pratice is something that was very important to those people. The problem is its origin is unclear. First connotation were Natufians but typologically it resembles more the Mesolithic practices found in Iron Gates culture as well as in some Croatian late Mesolithic sites. As Iberomaurusians and Capsians also showed signs of special treatment of skulls, so direct North African connotation of this cult cannot be excluded.


Additionally in Dalmatian Neolithic the burial practice of leaving the deceased, except chiefs, to be unburied and eaten by wild animals in wilderness has been compared to Maasai by a Yugoslav archaeologist.


But think of this, if E-V13 did arrive from Levant in Neolithic as part of Cardial Pottery wave, then this skull cult descends of Natufians, and because of its importance it can be postulated that the E-V13 throughout Neolithic never spoke Etruscan or some usual EEF, but rather Afroasiatic. From my perspective preferably something proto-Egyptian-like (when I was 12 I knew lot about most pyramids) and Semitic ethnogenesis is closely associated with later J1-Z2331, J2-M205 spread.

Autosomally Dalmatian Neolithic samples had small Iberomaurusian-like influence that EEF's by and large lacked. Though one can connect this to Natufians as well who were 27 % Iberomaurusian.”


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[Domias]

Interesting. But 1st E-V13 were already 'Causoid' or it is the same debate than its ancestor haplogroup E, which nobody is certain it was SSA or Eurasian in origin ?

[Qamari]

Some of you have written that E-V13 are descending from some elite people, well, it's always flattering to read such things haha :cool:

[Daos777]

Bump. Anyone have any new information about E-V13?

[TheMaestro]

Bump. Anyone have any new information about E-V13?

Yes, you're black.

[Daos777]

Yes, you're black.

That’s not new information to me.

[Coastal Elite]

https://i.imgur.com/1QpkRmu.gif

[Daos777]

https://www.persee.fr/doc/paleo_0153-9345_1995_num_21_2_4620


Most ancient E-M78 carriers:

Skull and skeletal measurements of iberomaurusians, torafalt and afalou populations compared to natufians. They were more robust if i read everything right.

[Joso]

https://www.persee.fr/doc/paleo_0153-9345_1995_num_21_2_4620


Most ancient E-M78 carriers:

Skull and skeletal measurements of iberomaurusians, torafalt and afalou populations compared to natufians. They were more robust if i read everything right.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317595-Origin-of-Dinarid-phenotype&p=6589582#post6589582

[Tauromachos]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?317595-Origin-of-Dinarid-phenotype&p=6589582#post6589582

Dinarid is Dinarid what can we do

[Kmakkmak]

https://www.persee.fr/doc/paleo_0153-9345_1995_num_21_2_4620


Most ancient E-M78 carriers:

Skull and skeletal measurements of iberomaurusians, torafalt and afalou populations compared to natufians. They were more robust if i read everything right.

Neolitic revolution from nile valley.

[Tauromachos]

Neolitic revolution from nile valley.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/a9/Hippopotamus_in_the_Zambezi.jpg/800px-Hippopotamus_in_the_Zambezi.jpg

[Daos777]

Neolitic revolution from nile valley.

Why only Neolitic? E men spread their genes throughout all of Africa. Western Africans are mainly E. E men conquered the big chocolate booty from the A and B men.

[Kmakkmak]

Why only Neolitic? E men spread their genes throughout all of Africa. Western Africans are mainly E. E men conquered the big chocolate booty from the A and B men.

I say that for E-V13.

[Daos777]

I say that for E-V13.

Lol there is 0 evidence of that but sure. E-V13 is older than Neolithic as well.

[Daos777]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200331/5ecaeab711d9c2b80c68f383d74fff99.jpg


Notable E-V13ers


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[Ion Basescul]

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1512524856949.png

[Daos777]

https://i.4pcdn.org/pol/1512524856949.png

Not one Natufian branch of E in Europe. No natufians were E-M78. Also picture doesn’t explain that E men backmigrated into Africa and clapped all kinds of big African cheeks.

[Coastal Elite]

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20200331/5ecaeab711d9c2b80c68f383d74fff99.jpg


Notable E-V13ers


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Frame that

[Tauromachos]

Don't remember if i have already posted here

I think from early Neolithic people who came into Europe

[Rocinante]

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?318840-Most-dominant-Y-DNA-of-TA Defend you haplo.

[Rocinante]

Now, i think E-V13 in Spain might have come with ANFs.

[Daos777]

Don't remember if i have already posted here

I think from early Neolithic people who came into Europe


Don't remember if i have already posted here

I think from early Neolithic people who came into Europe

Which ones? Because it was almost non existent among EEF

[Daos777]

Now, i think E-V13 in Spain might have come with ANFs.

That’s probably the case for all E-V13. Until a direct parent is found anywhere else but North Africa there is no proof otherwise


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[PaleoEuropean]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6qCD1rO_BQ

[Arch Hades]

Not one Natufian branch of E in Europe. No natufians were E-M78. Also picture doesn’t explain that E men backmigrated into Africa and clapped all kinds of big African cheeks.


I don't get why people always pick on Greeks or Southern Italians regarding this haplogroup. Sure it's most dominant there but it reaches non trivial 8-10% frequencies even in Austria and Bavaria.

[Daos777]

I don't get why people always pick on Greeks or Southern Italians regarding this haplogroup. Sure it's most dominant there but it reaches non trivial 8-10% frequencies even in Austria and Bavaria.

Its cuz it’s funny and It’s because they don’t really care about the origin, history or spread of it and that’s the easiest thing to go to without thinking. “Itz those damn Med Greco-Ethiopians”


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[Daos777]

Frame that

I’m actually going to put this in my resume. So the people who hire me know I am from a very noble lineage of cheek clapping.

[Coastal Elite]

If you you don't like this song and the sistas you ain't E-V13


https://youtu.be/jW4VZ5J0fNQ

[Daos777]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zr7itbDHGgvM.kHmbTTiPAdtQ

Link to google map locations of all E samples found by era.

[Ion Basescul]

https://www.google.com/maps/d/edit?mid=zr7itbDHGgvM.kHmbTTiPAdtQ

Link to google map locations of all E samples found by era.

They made a mistake with Glinoe in Moldova. It's on the other side of the country, in Transnistria (https://www.google.com/maps/place/Hlinaia,+Moldova/data=!4m2!3m1!1s0x40c8587ef732b003:0x789c4bf635668 c54?sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjso72xy-joAhXDURUIHYRPCCgQ8gEwCnoECA8QBA).

https://www.e-anthropology.com/English/glinoe_summary/default.aspx

[Daos777]

https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2018/03/oldest-dna-africa-offers-clues-mysterious-ancient-culture#

[Brutus]

E from central Africa, with the other ancestral haplogroups. E-M78 probably originated in Egypt or the Horn of Africa, then some migrated to the Levant and Anatolia during the Paleolithic and to the Balkans and E-V13 was born there. That or E-V13 migrated to the Steppes and spread from there with the IE migrations, because E-V13 was found in some Iranian speaking populations according to Eupedia, if I remember.

[Rabbit Hole]

Where do you think this haplogroup came from?


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The subclade E1b1b came from the Levant I don't know when but possibly the Bronze Age

[Hashoeva]

north africa and the levant

[Daos777]

The subclade E1b1b came from the Levant I don't know when but possibly the Bronze Age

E-M78 was found in the Levant? Nope.

E1b1b is a broad ass clade. I’m specifically referring to E-M78 from which E-V13 came. I know there are other E haplos in the Levant but not E-M78 lol


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[TheMaestro]

Get over it nigga, ultimate N word pass.

[Halgurd]

https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-53105-5

Y-chromosome haplogroups from Hun, Avar and conquering Hungarian period nomadic people of the Carpathian Basin

Couple of them are E-V13

it says "The mediterranean haplogroup E1b1b1a1b1a-V13 was detected in an Avar (SzK/239) and a Conqueror (K2/6) sample, while this marker was not covered in another sample (K1/13, E1b1b- M215). This Hg originated in the Middle East and migrated to the Balkans and Western Asia during the Bronze Age."

[Daos777]

Get over it nigga, ultimate N word pass.

lol there is nothing to get over. I just needz more infos and sheit


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[TheMaestro]

lol there is nothing to get over. I just needz more infos and sheit


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You have my approval bruddah.

Kind Regards

TheMaestro

[Tauromachos]

This is EV13

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/david-gyasi-achilles-cropped-1.jpg?w=681&h=383&crop=1

[Ülev]

If I only take a look on Eupedia's map of Ev13 I am always a bit suspicious

https://a.uguu.se/0T0mERtyFT8W.jpg

quite like female reproductive system scheme

[Daos777]

If I only take a look on Eupedia's map of Ev13 I am always a bit suspicious

https://a.uguu.se/0T0mERtyFT8W.jpg

quite like female reproductive system scheme

I mean you would have to include Spain and Kurdistan in that drawing because they have high amounts of E-V13 too so invalid drawing my nigga

Also whatever that patch is in Russia. Wtf is that?

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[Daos777]

This is EV13

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2017/12/david-gyasi-achilles-cropped-1.jpg?w=681&h=383&crop=1

True Illyrian

[TheMaestro]

If I only take a look on Eupedia's map of Ev13 I am always a bit suspicious



quite like female reproductive system scheme

Nibbas invaded us, were doomed.

[Daos777]

Nibbas invaded us, were doomed.

You’re more right than you think. E-M78 carriers in the Maghreb were “assimilated”(actually genocided because there would be more E-M78 and E-V13 most likely in North Africa) by their more mixed Capsian cousins from the east.

“Mechta-Afalou (Mechtoid) or Paleo-Berber are a population that inhabited parts of North Africa during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic.[1] They are associated with the Iberomaurusian archaeological culture.

More gracile humans arrived in the mid-Holocene (5200–2500 B.C.E.) employing a diversified subsistence economy based on clams, fish, and savanna vertebrates as well as some cattle husbandry.

Mechtoids are believed to have been assimilated during the Neolithic and early Bronze Age by the makers of the ensuing Capsian culture.[2] Craniometric analysis indicates that these Iberomaurusians were closely related to the early Holocene Capsians of the Maghreb (Tamazgha), as well as the early Holocene Kiffians of the Sahara.[3]

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Afalou site were found to carry the mtDNA haplogroups H or U (3/9; 33%), J (2/9; 22%), H103 (1/9; 11%), H14b1 or JT (1/9; 11%), R0a1a (1/9; 11%), and T2b (1/9; 11%).[4] All of these are Eurasian Haplogroups.

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Ifri N'Ammar site were found to carry the Y-DNA haplogroups E-M35*(1/2; 50%) and E-L19*(1/2; 50%). All individuals carried the mtDNA haplogroup U6.[5]

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Taforalt site were found to carry the Y-DNA haplogroups E-M78*(4/6; 66%), E-L618*(1/6; 16%), and E-M215*(1/6; 16%). All individuals carried the mtDNA haplogroups U6(6/7; 85%) and M1(1/7; 14%).[6]”

97966

[Halgurd]

E-V13 niggaz on this forum are so much more chill than these R1 and I niggaz tbh

[TheMaestro]

You’re more right than you think. E-M78 carriers in the Maghreb were “assimilated”(actually genocided because there would be more E-M78 and E-V13 most likely in North Africa) by their more mixed Capsian cousins from the east.

“Mechta-Afalou (Mechtoid) or Paleo-Berber are a population that inhabited parts of North Africa during the late Paleolithic and Mesolithic.[1] They are associated with the Iberomaurusian archaeological culture.

More gracile humans arrived in the mid-Holocene (5200–2500 B.C.E.) employing a diversified subsistence economy based on clams, fish, and savanna vertebrates as well as some cattle husbandry.

Mechtoids are believed to have been assimilated during the Neolithic and early Bronze Age by the makers of the ensuing Capsian culture.[2] Craniometric analysis indicates that these Iberomaurusians were closely related to the early Holocene Capsians of the Maghreb (Tamazgha), as well as the early Holocene Kiffians of the Sahara.[3]

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Afalou site were found to carry the mtDNA haplogroups H or U (3/9; 33%), J (2/9; 22%), H103 (1/9; 11%), H14b1 or JT (1/9; 11%), R0a1a (1/9; 11%), and T2b (1/9; 11%).[4] All of these are Eurasian Haplogroups.

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Ifri N'Ammar site were found to carry the Y-DNA haplogroups E-M35*(1/2; 50%) and E-L19*(1/2; 50%). All individuals carried the mtDNA haplogroup U6.[5]

Iberomaurusian fossils excavated at the Taforalt site were found to carry the Y-DNA haplogroups E-M78*(4/6; 66%), E-L618*(1/6; 16%), and E-M215*(1/6; 16%). All individuals carried the mtDNA haplogroups U6(6/7; 85%) and M1(1/7; 14%).[6]”

97966

My ADHD stopped reading after first sentence, write more simpler boi.

[Daos777]

My ADHD stopped reading after first sentence, write more simpler boi.

Lmao. You're just not interested enough in this shit.

[Luso]

Egypt

[TheMaestro]

Lmao. You're just not interested enough in this shit.

XDDDDDD It’s just a core Balkan ydna with roots in Africa that’s all. That’s why I like chicken, watermelon and basketball.

[Luso]

XDDDDDD It’s just a core Balkan ydna with roots in Africa that’s all. That’s why I like chicken, watermelon and basketball.

I like fish!

[Daos777]

Egypt

Ancient Egyptians were E-V22 they can't be direct ancestors to E-V13. They shared a common ancestor wayyyyyy up stream though. Separated by like 8,000 years.

[TheMaestro]

I like fish!

I hate fish and they smell really bad. I prefer chicken breasts.

[Luso]

Ancient Egyptians were E-V22 they can't be direct ancestors to E-V13. They shared a common ancestor wayyyyyy up stream though. Separated by like 8,000 years.

true. Libya, or in the Nile River :lightbul:

[Luso]

I hate fish and they smell really bad. I prefer chicken breasts.

Greek no like fish? NOOOO eat tuna and octopus

[Daos777]

true. Libya, or in the Nile River :lightbul:

West Morocco lol

[TheMaestro]

Greek no like fish? NOOOO eat tuna and octopus

Tuna is only fish I can eat and that’s only if it’s on pizza, other than that I could literally throw up from fish.

[Luso]

West Morocco lol

True. Do you think it originated here and then went through fertile crescent in through west and central asia into east med?

[Daos777]

True. Do you think it originated here and then went through fertile crescent in through west and central asia into east med?

It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

[Luso]

It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

Sounds legit

[Halgurd]

It split from D in the Middle East and then it back migrated into Africa. In Northern Africa is where E-M78 was born. These E men spread all over Africa taking women away from the A and B Y dna carriers. Then it came to Europe directly from North Africa into Spain and Balkans by Iberomaurusian fisherman. The other much later subclades of E from the Natufian line never made it into Europe. So it’s spread with Neolithic farmers is bullshit.

This is what I'm starting to believe as well. Oldest E-V13 and E-M78 have been found in North West Africa.

[Rocinante]

:heh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wCEDL_Fkl5mQMdYy45xjenAIDRaF1aGR5H6NdBOUo7TGZP4ahN gDrIN3-xwG8EuLXUyYskNiKNm6Sqh06IJrBNbi7NL0PJ5BUaycMDgzfgX krFCrqRjWzb0RIeRhWqtpO9iIlqz7RL5Qz5yzB37FogSyFUQ4Y 02v0uvF

[Luso]

:heh:

https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/proxy/wCEDL_Fkl5mQMdYy45xjenAIDRaF1aGR5H6NdBOUo7TGZP4ahN gDrIN3-xwG8EuLXUyYskNiKNm6Sqh06IJrBNbi7NL0PJ5BUaycMDgzfgX krFCrqRjWzb0RIeRhWqtpO9iIlqz7RL5Qz5yzB37FogSyFUQ4Y 02v0uvF

That is how tan I get in the winter. In the summer this is me:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/95/9579e01c9081beb566808543b3045a8fdb196175_full.jpg

[Rocinante]

That is how tan I get in the winter. In the summer this is me:

https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/steamcommunity/public/images/avatars/95/9579e01c9081beb566808543b3045a8fdb196175_full.jpg

You get tan as an E-V13! Nice man, maybe that´s the reason of why some people ask you if you are truly portuguese, it might be because you are partly albanian or greek!

[Daos777]

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

[Voskos]

...

https://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/33hamitics33.jpg

https://hamitic.wordpress.com/

[Daos777]

https://hamitic.files.wordpress.com/2012/12/33hamitics33.jpg

https://hamitic.wordpress.com/

Hamitic is E-Z827 homie. We wuz speakin proto-hamitic. Gotta respect and represent the big daddy E-M78 that made it all happen.

[Daos777]

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

[Ion Basescul]

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

The popular I-Y3120 or Dinaric subclade, which accounts for over 99% of I2a in Eastern Europe comes from a backward migration from the West, so who knows. Anything is possible, especially given this precedent, but I also know next to nothing about the phylogenetics of E-V13.
http://scaledinnovation.com/gg/snpTracker.html

[Ion Basescul]

Verteba Cave (Cucuteni-Trypillian)
descrizione
E-M78 (6000-5600 ybp)

Was the cucuteni sample E-M78 or not? I heard a member mention it was E-Z827 but this site says he was E-M78 can anyone post source I can't find it anywhere. Thanks.

https://i.imgur.com/5PqZtQR.png

Seems to be E-Z830.

https://haplogroup.info/
https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-Z830/
https://www.familytreedna.com/public/y-dna-haplotree/E;name=E-CTS10298

[Halgurd]

imo the lack of ancient E-V13 samples suggest that historically it was not very widespread but the few V13 men were able to expand as a result of Indo-European expansion. The Glinoe sample fits very well with the TMRCA of E-V13.

[Halgurd]

Many E-M78 samples among other E clades found in Neolithic French Michelsberg culture. The only Neolithic culture so far that had an abundance of E in it and not just a few outliers like in balkan Neolithic cultures that were predominately G, and I2 (Besides cardial). Yet we think of Balkans as home of E-V13. Could've E-V13 had an east migration from western Europe? The oldest European E-V13 sample is in Spain after all. Anyways here are the sources:

On the map:
https://www.google.com/maps/d/viewer...6135984312&z=7

It was from the samples of these two recent French papers:
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344
https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/6/22/eaaz5344

Check table 1:
https://www.pnas.org/content/suppl/2...DCSupplemental

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

[Ion Basescul]

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

[Halgurd]

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .

https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

[Daos777]

Have they been tested downstream? If not, and if they turn out to be E-V13, then it could very well be possible that they migrated eastwards.

I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

[Ion Basescul]

Thats crazy there is one E-L168, directly ancestral to V13.

xL618 means that they tested for L618, but it was negative

[Daos777]

No, but the yDNA distribution at the Salauger site was 55% I2 and 45% E. Maybe they returned together to Eastern Europe and after some time became each other's arch nemesis, one clan took the name of Serbs and the other one of Albanians :lol: .
https://i.imgur.com/5xeG1vX.png

Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

[Ion Basescul]

Wait no Y-DNA G samples in a Neolithic site? How is that even possible lol.

It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site (http://www.antea-archeologie.com/chantiers-archeologiques/Saulager/83.html)

[ChocolateFace]

E-V13 mutated/emerged in the Balkans thousands of years ago.

[Daos777]

It seems like a mix of Hunter Gatherer lineages (I) and whatever (E) were have grouped together and perhaps didn't let any outsiders in. G's were not invited basically.

This is the site (http://www.antea-archeologie.com/chantiers-archeologiques/Saulager/83.html)


"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

[Ion Basescul]

"The skeleton of a man showed numerous traces of violence on several parts of his anatomy, notably on the skull. The individual's left arm was also severed. Even more exceptional detail, beneath these eight skeletons were the remains of eight left arms. The latter present invoices at the level of the humerus and at the level of the forearms. Several indications seem to suggest that the arms were cut using a heavy and sharp ax-like object and that the flesh was still present on the bones. In the absence of written sources for this period, we cannot know the type of event which could have engendered so much violence, but it is certain that these burials go beyond the strictly funerary framework."

These niggas were chimping the fuck out in the neolithic lmao.

https://i.redd.it/kwgcflkeuub51.png

[Halgurd]

I mean given the ages of the samples nothing disproves a east to west migration yet because that cardial sample is about 8,000 years old and these samples are around 6,000 +- 500. It's just weird how the frequency of E-M78 is so high in this culture compared to balkan and other neolithic samples. And we even have more E-M78 samples in Hungary compared to balkans.

The main problem is we still don't know if E-M78 was assimilated in Europe or brought by Cardial culture because we have 0 E-M78 samples from the proposed Cardial homeland. If any E-M78 ancestral to E-V13 is EVER found in levant I would be less skeptical about this theory.

Also, the Spanish sample is also around 7,500-8,000 years old and I can't find the source for it so if you guys have it please post it.

We have plenty of samples from the Levant and the fact that none of them are ancestral to E-V13 makes me very skeptical about any Levantine linked origin of E-V13. There is also a lack of E-M78 in modern populations of the Levant.

[Ion Basescul]

Did you guys see this (https://anthrogenica.com/showthread.php?21442-E-V13-in-Bulgarian-Iron-Age&p=693958#post693958)? Loads of E folk from Bulgaria are waiting to be published. There is an Iron Age E-V13, which will make it the second E-V13 in the region after the Iron Age Moldovan from Stefan Voda district.



Recently came to my attention a few videos, which claim a new big project about testing old bones from different periods in Bulgaria. This will be between Dr.Reich's Harvard Lab and the Bulgarian Archaeological Institute.
It seems the Harvard lab has some unpublished results from the study The Genomic History Of Southeastern Europe. They appear for a short time on the screen of this video (around 6:00 min) but are covered by the head and are a mirror image. I managed to see that all assigned haplogroups from the Bulgarian Iron age are some kind of E:
https://sedemosmi.tv/production/%d1%...2-2020-%d0%b3/


There is one E1b1b1a1b1a - V13, 2 E1b1b1a1b1 - L618 and one given only as E. They are from Kapitan Andreevo-Svilengrad area, this is South East Bulgaria, close to the Turkish/Greek border. From this area is also the previous low coverage Thracian samples, worked out as M78. This is the hinterland of the Odrysian Thracian kingdom and there is a reason to believe that the Thracians from the Classical period are also predominantly V13.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Odrysian_kingdom


The guy on the video also mentioned that one Medieval sample from 9th c. Central Bulgaria has been proven Q1a2a. According to him, this must be some Old Bulgar, however not completely sure in not an Avar. He is paddling the Iran-Caucasus origin of the Old Bulgars, something most Bulgarians don't agree with. At any case more bones will be tested with this new project and the truth will be revealed at last.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

[Ion Basescul]

So:

1) An Anatolian/Levant origin is not credible because there are no E-V13 people there anymore;

2) A North-African origin seems strange since there don't seem to be proper migration patterns.

We're aliens?

It could be pretty simple actually. Upstream from V13 is L618, which was found only in Europe since the Neolithic.

https://i.ibb.co/0VY6m8n/image.png

Then upstream from L618 is Z1919, which wasn't identified in ancients. If we go further up, we get to M78, which is the branch that confuses people, because there are hits in Iberomarusians and one Levantine sample.
It is obvious that the oldest samples discovered so far are in North Africa and only after 7000 years it appears in Levant (Jordan). The ancestors of L618 could have either:



All come from North Africa
All come from the Levant
A combination of the two; one migration route through Spain and another through Anatolia


https://i.ibb.co/LSrkYmN/image.png

[Figaro]

Probably Copper Age-Bronze Age movements from West Asia into Europe.

Probably a similar story as my mtdna.

[EV13Scythian]

Probably Copper Age-Bronze Age movements from West Asia into Europe.

Probably a similar story as my mtdna.

No culture in Copper-Bronze age west Asia had significant amounts of E-M78 > E-V13. A 7,000 year old skeleton in Spain had E-V13.

[TheMaestro]

No culture in Copper-Bronze age west Asia had significant amounts of E-M78 > E-V13. A 7,000 year old skeleton in Spain had E-V13.

Why did you get banned dao?

[EV13Scythian]

Why did you get banned dao?

Who? My name is Imran Zakhaev.

[Dr_Maul]

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/MoroccanBerber.jpg/320px-MoroccanBerber.jpg

[TheMaestro]

Who? My name is Imran Zakhaev.

rep me reason nibba

[TheMaestro]

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/MoroccanBerber.jpg/320px-MoroccanBerber.jpg

I see the resemblence with me.

[EV13Scythian]

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/MoroccanBerber.jpg/320px-MoroccanBerber.jpg

That’s after E men clapped the native sub saharan negroid cheeks and gave birth to half negroids. I’m pretty sure autosomally fully ANA(Ancestral North African, where E even came from) looked quite unique, neither negroid nor Eurasian.

[Leto]

Why did you get banned dao?
Is that not fucking Bakha? He is E-V13 too.

[Halgurd]

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/MoroccanBerber.jpg/320px-MoroccanBerber.jpg

scytho-negroid

[MiloshN]

Facial reconstruction of the oldest E-V13

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/e/e8/MoroccanBerber.jpg/320px-MoroccanBerber.jpg

My nigga

[WeirdLookingFellow]

That’s after E men clapped the native sub saharan negroid cheeks and gave birth to half negroids. I’m pretty sure autosomally fully ANA(Ancestral North African, where E even came from) looked quite unique, neither negroid nor Eurasian.

So fucking glad you're back.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

https://youtu.be/8Z3Jfja_9Ck

Even Kiffians were mostly cacausoid of the mechtoid(robust, leaning more towards paleo Europeans) and proto-med variety.

[Coastal Elite]

I'm E-V13 living in a Rb1 and I1 neighborhood. If only they knew.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

Interesting read for us E carriers



"The Kiffian skulls have been metrically analysed, and they (shown below as the Gob-e sample) group closely with the North African Iberomaurusian/Cro-Magnon samples i.e. robust archaic Caucasoids. The later Tenerians (Gob-m) are outliers, as they have a leaner, more Mediterranean structure"

https://journals.plos.org/plosone/article?id=10.1371/journal.pone.0002995

Green Sahara was non SS African.

Some 10,000 years ago, when glaciers chilled northern Europe, the Sahara desert was a fertile, well-watered land. Among the most favored parts of it must have been the Tassili-N-Ajjer, a plateau about 900 miles southeast of Algiers. This mountain range covers a staggering 72,000 sq. km of the south east of Algeria, bordering Libya and Niger. It was here where a world class tourist attraction site was discovered in early 1930s and since then it has never ceased to amaze its visitors from all around the world. Tassili n'Ajjer is home to thousands of ancient paintings that are believed to have been delicately painted about 10,000 years ago.

Today the region is one of the driest deserts on earth and almost uninhabited, but in prehistoric and early historic times it boiled with vigorous life.

From an analysis of the skeletons and pottery, scientists identified the two successive cultures that occupied the settlement. The Kiffians, some of whom stood up to six feet tall, both men and women, lived there during the Sahara’s wettest period, between 10,000 and 8,000 years ago. They were primarily hunter-gatherers who speared huge lake perch with harpoons.

Elena A. A. Garcea, an archaeologist at the University of Cassino in Italy, identified ceramics with wavy lines and zigzag patterns as Kiffian, a culture associated with northern Africa. Pots bearing a pointillistic pattern were linked to the Ténérians, a people named for the Ténéré desert, a stretch of the Sahara known to Tuareg nomads as a “desert within a desert.”

Christopher M. Stojanowski, an archaeologist at Arizona State University, said the two cultures were “biologically distinct groups.” The bones and teeth showed that in contrast to the robust Kiffians, the Ténérians were typically short and lean and apparently led less rigorous lives. The shapes of the Ténérian skulls are puzzling, researchers said, because they resemble those of Mediterranean people, not other nearby groups.

Mediterranean Proper: Short stature, about 160 cm.; skull length 183-187 mm. male mean; vault height 132-137 mm. mean; cranial index means 73-75; browridges and bone development weak, face short, nose leptorrhine to mesorrhine. Type already met in Portugal and Palestine in Late Mesolithic. Represents the paedomorphic or sexually undifferentiated Mediterranean form, and often carries a slight archaic tendency.

https://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/15/science/15sahara.html

Iwo Eleru’s place among Late Pleistocene and Early Holocene populations of North and East Africa

Christopher M. Stojanowski et al. Journal of Human Evolution 75 (2014) 80-89

"Nonetheless, West African contribution to the peopling of the Sahara is not supported by results presented here. Although Iwo Eleru was most similar to the Saharan sample centroid using size corrected data, the specimen was still quite distinctive from all Holocene samples and the pattern of distances was not robust to the data scaling method. Interestingly, material from the 10,000
year old Gobero site in Niger was included in the central Saharan sample (Sereno et al., 2008) and Iwo Eleru demonstrated no phenetic similarities to these individuals despite their relative geographic proximity (see Fig. 1). Therefore, results presented here lend conditional support to inferences based in linguistics (Ehret, 1993; Blench, 2006), archeology (Sutton, 1974, 1977; Clark, 1980; Haaland, 1992, 2009; Drake et al., 2011), and physical anthropology (Petit-Maire and Dutour, 1987; Dutour, 1989a,b) that the Holocene
peopling of the Sahara did not initially involve the northward migration of tropical West Africans."

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25065342

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

I'm E-V13 living in a Rb1 and I1 neighborhood. If only they knew.

E1b has led R1b and I1 many times before, Hitler, Napoleon, ect... Try shouting some orders see if it works.

[EM78GREENSAVANNAH]

Quoted from another member on another forum:

There is more and more evidence coming out that E-V13 was not a Balkan haplogroup to begin with, but only spread there during the middle bronze age. Which makes the origin of E-V13 even more complex.


"The problem with E-V13 is that during the whole Neolithic up until Middle Bronze Age both his ancestors E-L618 and E-V13 was relatively present at very low percentages, which didn't contribute into European genepoole more than ~1-2%, that changes in Middle Bronze Age though. The problem is to find the origin of expansion, it's very tough. I agreed before on Southern Balkan origin, but looks to me unlikely. I still have room to expect E-V13 in the Balkans but i very much doubt it, and it looks like majority of people are agreeing in this.

E-V13 appeared in North/Central Balkans during Middle Bronze Age and in Southern Balkans mainly during Late Bronze Age. But, what is the zero point of starting of the expansion, that's unknown so far. The spread within Urnfield cultural complex during LBA makes sense."

[Kriptc06]

My haplo is still a mystery, here are some of my matches in YFull, my closest match is predicted to be in the middle ages.

https://i.imgur.com/ep9eEy0.png

[Tauromachos]

My haplo is still a mystery, here are some of my matches in YFull, my closest match is predicted to be in the middle ages.


Your haplogroup seems pretty international

[MechtoidAfalouHG]

Don't know if this has been posted.


https://www.biorxiv.org/content/early/2018/09/20/423079

Abstract:

The earliest ancient DNA data of modern humans from Europe dates to ~40 thousand years ago, but that from the Caucasus and the Near East to only ~14 thousand years ago, from populations who lived long after the Last Glacial Maximum (LGM) ~26.5-19 thousand years ago. To address this imbalance and to better understand the relationship of Europeans and Near Easterners, we report genome-wide data from two ~26 thousand year old individuals from Dzudzuana Cave in Georgia in the Caucasus from around the beginning of the LGM. Surprisingly, the Dzudzuana population was more closely related to early agriculturalists from western Anatolia ~8 thousand years ago than to the hunter-gatherers of the Caucasus from the same region of western Georgia of ~13-10 thousand years ago. Most of the Dzudzuana population's ancestry was deeply related to the post-glacial western European hunter-gatherers of the 'Villabruna cluster', but it also had ancestry from a lineage that had separated from the great majority of non-African populations before they separated from each other, proving that such 'Basal Eurasians' were present in West Eurasia twice as early as previously recorded. We document major population turnover in the Near East after the time of Dzudzuana, showing that the highly differentiated Holocene populations of the region were formed by 'Ancient North Eurasian' admixture into the Caucasus and Iran and North African admixture into the Natufians of the Levant. We finally show that the Dzudzuana population contributed the majority of the ancestry of post-Ice Age people in the Near East, North Africa, and even parts of Europe, thereby becoming the largest single contributor of ancestry of all present-day West Eurasians."


"Our co-modeling of Epipaleolithic Natufians and Ibero-Maurusians from Taforalt confirms that the Taforalt population was mixed11, but instead of specifying gene flow from the ancestors of Natufians into the ancestors of Taforalt as originally reported, we infer gene flow in the reverse direction (into Natufians). The Neolithic population from Morocco, closely related to Taforalt17 is also consistent with being descended from the source of this gene flow, and appears to have no admixture from the Levantine Neolithic (Supplementary Information section 3). If our model is correct, Epipaleolithic Natufians trace part of their ancestry to North Africa, consistent with morphological and archaeological studies that indicate a spread of morphological features22 and artifacts from North Africa into the Near East. Such a scenario would also explain the presence of Y-chromosome haplogroup E in the Natufians and Levantine farmers6, a common link between the Levant and Africa. Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source11; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans23. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources."

[Asten]

Ev-13 is Noble

[Cleitus]

From the Gods

[Cleitus]

The Druze are Christians, and are most likely to be descended from either Syrian or Bactrian Greeks or Assyrians.The Druze aren't Christian, lol.

The Druze faith incorporates elements of Isma'ilism, a branch ofShia Islam, Gnosticism,Christianity, Zoroastrianism,Buddhism,Hinduism,Neoplatonism, Pythagoreanism,and other philosophies and beliefs.