Classify kashmiri pandits

[Bandesha]

classify Kashmiri Pandits protest outside Congress party headquarters in New Delhi in 2009 2 year after they were expelled from Kashmir by muslims
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/august-01-kashmiri-pandits-shouting-slogans-during-their-protest-in-picture-id453160794?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/members-of-the-various-organisations-of-kashmiri-pandits-raising-a-picture-id992153308?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/volunteers-of-joint-forum-of-kashmiri-pandits-organisations-an-of-picture-id173391873?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kashmiri-pandit-priests-perform-ramnavmi-and-navratraprayer-rituals-picture-id97997788?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kashmiri-pandits-community-under-the-banner-of-panun-kashmir-hold-a-picture-id477891396?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/kashmiri-pandits-pray-during-the-annual-hindu-festival-of-the-kheer-picture-id145420613?s=2048x2048
https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/volunteers-of-joint-forum-of-kashmiri-pandits-organisations-an-of-picture-id173391871?s=2048x2048

[Bandesha]

bump

[PaleoEuropean]

Brown

[21993]

North Indids, Indo Iranids, Indo Brachids

[Bandesha]

North Indids, Indo Iranids, Indo Brachids

can thay pas inn turky

[21993]

can thay pas inn turky

I guess no because their main phenotype look atypical for Turkey

[Zoro]

can thay pas inn turky

The ones you posted except for 3 or 4 couldn’t even pass in Kurdistan, because of the color- features combination. Gujaratis, sindhis, pakistani punjabis and Pakistani kashmiris have a better chance than these in passing in Kurdistan.

Some of these can pass as pakistani pashtuns though because some of them are afghan pashtun/indid hybrids.

[Bandesha]

Some of these can pass as pakistani pashtuns though because some of them are afghan pashtun/indid hybrids.

70% paki pashtun are also not iranid but are local mountain punjabis and other 30% are turkic/persian and pashtun hybrids
it's funny when majority of so called Pakistani pashtun ethnicity is indigenous to what is now Pakistan and have little to do with central asian invaders post Islam. they were first in line to be conquered and converted by various turk invasions from Central asia. Later on they will get employeed by Turks and in some cases rule for some years , same is case for punjabis

[Zoro]

The
70% paki pashtun are also not iranid but are local mountain punjabis and other 30% are turkic/persian and pashtun hybrids
it's funny when majority of so called Pakistani pashtun ethnicity is indigenous to what is now Pakistan and have little to do with central asian invaders post Islam. they were first in line to be conquered and converted by various turk invasions from Central asia. Later on they will get employeed by Turks and in some cases rule for some years , same is case for punjabis

Sounds about right although more of of them especially the ones from Baluchistan and Waziristan can pass in Kurdistan than these .

I think those Swat Iron Age samples from the Narasim. paper would have looked closest to Pakistani Pashtuns and would have probably had the retroflex language just like pashto and Indo-Aryan languages

[Bandesha]

The

Sounds about right although more of of them especially the ones from Baluchistan and Waziristan can pass in Kurdistan than these .

I think those Swat Iron Age samples from the Narasim. paper would have looked closest to Pakistani Pashtuns and would have probably had the retroflex language just like pashto and Indo-Aryan languages

buy my experience have been different. Many waziristan karlani an battani pashtun are basically punjabis.
can you classify this pashtun activist from waziristan
(https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?297658-Classify-a-pakistani-activist)

[Pro.crasti.nation]

I don't mean to offend but, are these people 100% Kashmiri?

I've never met any Kashmiris that looked like them.

Also, isn't Anupam Kher a Kashmiri Pandit?

[Bandesha]

I don't mean to offend but, are these people 100% Kashmiri?

I've never met any Kashmiris that looked like them.

Also, isn't Anupam Kher a Kashmiri Pandit?

yes .they are 100% Kashmiris and recently expelled from kashmir

[Pro.crasti.nation]

yes .they are 100% Kashmiris and recently expelled from kashmir

Ah, ok. Thanks.

I'm just really surprised at how they look.

Is there a difference between Muslim Kashmiris and Hindu Kashmiris, when it comes to race?
I've only known Muslim Kashmiris, so maybe that explains my surprise, at least in part.

[Voskos]

Are all Kashmiris bandits?

[Purohit ji]

Ah, ok. Thanks.

I'm just really surprised at how they look.

Is there a difference between Muslim Kashmiris and Hindu Kashmiris, when it comes to race?
I've only known Muslim Kashmiris, so maybe that explains my surprise, at least in part.

They are 110% kashmiris and they genetically exactly the same as kashmiri.muslims who are basically kashmiri hindus convert in 14th centurry by force

[Adamastor]

The pics are not on but many Kashmiris look just regular South Asian (''Indian''), only a portion of them look kinda different and leaning to West Asia/Central Asia or Europe.

[lameduck]

They are 110% kashmiris and they genetically exactly the same as kashmiri.muslims who are basically kashmiri hindus convert in 14th centurry by force

yeah they fit in Kashmir and northern south asia as well.Lightness/euroness of kashmiris is exaggerated , most kashmiris look between Punjabis and Pashtuns.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

yeah they fit in Kashmir and northern south asia as well.Lightness/euroness of kashmiris is exaggerated , most kashmiris look between Punjabis and Pashtuns.

So are the fair ones not proper Kashmiri?

I went to uni with a Kashmiri, my ex is a Kashmiri ("proper Kashmiri, not Mirpuri"), met her family, cousins, aunts, uncles, grandfather ... most of the aunties in my extended family are Kashmiri (by tradition, we used to source our women there, lol!) ...

The only other Kashmiri people I know of are Salman Rushdie and Anupam Kher...

They all look similarly fair. Though some have the typical big schnozzola.


Is Kashmir just diverse? Has it always been that way?

I know it's a sensitive subject to some, but I'm really curious about it, for obvious reasons.

[turbosat]

I don't mean to offend but, are these people 100% Kashmiri?

I've never met any Kashmiris that looked like them.

Also, isn't Anupam Kher a Kashmiri Pandit?

I agree with you, overall they (or quite a few of them) in these pics do look different to majority of Muslim Kashmiris.
They must have some other mixture in them at some point, if not a different origin.

Like this man and woman at front, they stand out even from the others.

https://media.gettyimages.com/photos/volunteers-of-joint-forum-of-kashmiri-pandits-organisations-an-of-picture-id173391873?s=2048x2048



Anupam Kher is Kashmiri Pandit I believe. I have seen some other Pandits who look like him too.

[Negah]

yeah they fit in Kashmir and northern south asia as well.Lightness/euroness of kashmiris is exaggerated , most kashmiris look between Punjabis and Pashtuns.

I am surprised at how south Asian the majority look. I used to go to school with two Kashmiris girls, one looked very south Asian, the other not so much and had green eyes. Her looks were more ambiguous.

[lameduck]

I am surprised at how south Asian the majority look. I used to go to school with two Kashmiris girls, one looked very south Asian, the other not so much and had green eyes. Her looks were more ambiguous.

I have read somewhere that muslim kashmiris have recent ancestry from Gilgit.
People tend to have much darker image of Punjabis compared to Kashmir because of large low cast population in Punjab which consititute 25% of province , this create a much darker holistic image of crowds as compared to kashmiris.If you take only upper cast Punjabis difference isnt terribly big. saying that Kashmiris have some anceint dardic types that are virtually absent among Punjabis.

two Pak kashmiri guys

e.g Abdullah Ejaz

https://www.starsofworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Abdullah-Ejaz-Height-1.jpg

Abdul Manan Butt(kinda look like Pak PM imran khan)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3469580929/f6705314bcd2755a6e37536c3efcfc49_400x400.png

[Truth Preacher]

I have read somewhere that muslim kashmiris have recent ancestry from Gilgit.
People tend to have much darker image of Punjabis compared to Kashmir because of large low cast population in Punjab which consititute 25% of province , this create a much darker holistic image of crowds as compared to kashmiris.If you take only upper cast Punjabis difference isnt terribly big. saying that Kashmiris have some anceint dardic types that are virtually absent among Punjabis.

two Pak kashmiri guys

e.g Abdullah Ejaz

https://www.starsofworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/07/Abdullah-Ejaz-Height-1.jpg

Abdul Manan Butt(kinda look like Pak PM imran khan)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3469580929/f6705314bcd2755a6e37536c3efcfc49_400x400.png

Do u have any links regarding ancestry from gilgit also are there any Muslim Kashmiri results anywhere. They look pan North Indian Brahmin types some do look more stereotypical mountain types tho.

[Kamal900]

Just lighter pigmented South Asians. I doubt they would stick up in places like Punjab and so on.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

Just lighter pigmented South Asians. I doubt they would stick up in places like Punjab and so on.
None of the people in op's selection, are at all "lighter", unless your base of comparison is regular South Indians.

[turbosat]

I don't mean to offend but, are these people 100% Kashmiri?

I've never met any Kashmiris that looked like them.

Also, isn't Anupam Kher a Kashmiri Pandit?

These two are Kashmiri Pandits in UK.

https://www.newasianpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Lakshmi-Kaul-Vinod-Tikoo-2.jpg


Also this wealthy guy. He has same last name as above guy. I dont know if above guy is related to this man..
https://ta-images.condecdn.net/image/VN5KQp4eMla/crop/1020/f/Ravi-Tikoo-April-Edwards-Tatler-22june15-Hugo-Burnand.jpg

Above guy younger.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DQjrAU8aL._SY500_.jpg


This guy also has same last name, but he appears to be living in Punjab.
https://i1.rgstatic.net/ii/profile.image/272340370063374-1441942412361_Q512/Kulbhushan_Tikoo.jpg

[lameduck]

None of the people in op's selection, are at all "lighter", unless your base of comparison is regular South Indians.

well they arent particularly dark by northern South Asians standards as well. they fit in the diversity , there are many darker people than them all over NW south asia.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

These two are Kashmiri Pandits in UK.

https://www.newasianpost.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/07/Lakshmi-Kaul-Vinod-Tikoo-2.jpg

Also this wealthy guy. He has same last name as above guy. I dont know if above guy is related to this man..

https://ta-images.condecdn.net/image/VN5KQp4eMla/crop/1020/f/Ravi-Tikoo-April-Edwards-Tatler-22june15-Hugo-Burnand.jpg

Above guy younger.
https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/61DQjrAU8aL._SY500_.jpg


This guy also has same last name.
https://i1.rgstatic.net/ii/profile.image/272340370063374-1441942412361_Q512/Kulbhushan_Tikoo.jpg

That's basically the type of people I know and think of, when I think of Kashmiri people.
It's why op's post so surprised and confused me.

[turbosat]

That's basically the type of people I know and think of, when I think of Kashmiri people.
It's why op's post so surprised and confused me.

I guess they are diverse, and some of them in OP post did not look Kashmiri to me. I saw a few similar Muslim Kashmiri women like in OP post today (and another woman was in Kashmir, Pakistan) by chance in a BBC video about the current situation there.

I have also seen much lighter Kashmiris when I visited there in past, but those people were in remote villages.

There were also some very light, and good looking women in Srinagar we saw who came out for walks (exercise) in the evening, but they seemed to be from their wealthy or upper classes

[Pro.crasti.nation]

well they arent particularly dark by northern South Asians standards as well. they fit in the diversity , there are many darker people than them all over NW south asia.

Honestly, I would be very surprised if they were at all typical for Northern South Asia.

I obviously don't know the situation in South Asia but, I've met Afghan, Pakistani, Marathi, Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, Tamil, Sri Lankan (Sinhalese) and of course Kashmiri people, in Europe and the variability has definitely been bounded by ethnicity.

None of the Northern people I've met, looked like the people in op's photos.

I'm just very surprised by the images.

[turbosat]

That's basically the type of people I know and think of, when I think of Kashmiri people.
It's why op's post so surprised and confused me.

Found another pic of the wealthy guy.

https://ta-images.condecdn.net/image/9AJVb3nNzN7/crop/1020/f/Ravi-Tikoo-Mrs-Neil-Balfour-Tatler-04sept15-Hugo-Burnand.jpg

[Pro.crasti.nation]

I guess they are diverse, and some of them in OP post did not look Kashmiri to me. I saw a few similar Muslim Kashmiri women like in OP post today (and another woman was in Kashmir, Pakistan) by chance in a BBC video about the current situation there.

I have also seen much lighter Kashmiris when I visited there in past, but those people were in remote villages.

There were also some very light, and good looking women in Srinagar we saw who came out for walks (exercise) in the evening, but they seemed to be from their wealthy or upper classes

Ah, I'm really interested in learning the extent and history of the diversity.

I was born and raised in England and, honestly have always been told that I don't belong, by the Sylhetis around me. I figured that it was true, our family history does go back to Delhi, but ... it's weird when even the people in that region look even more different... lol!

[turbosat]

Honestly, I would be very surprised if they were at all typical for Northern South Asia.

I obviously don't know the situation in South Asia but, I've met Afghan, Pakistani, Marathi, Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, Tamil, Sri Lankan (Sinhalese) and of course Kashmiri people, in Europe and the variability has definitely been bounded by ethnicity.

None of the Northern people I've met, looked like the people in op's photos.

I'm just very surprised by the images.

What is the main difference between people you have seen and those in OP photos?

There are all sorts of different looking people everywhere in North. They might loose their deep suntan when living in Europe? I know this guy who went back to Bengal for a few weeks, he was a lot darker when he came back, but he lost the extra tan after a few weeks when he came back .

[Pro.crasti.nation]

What is the main difference between people you have seen and those in OP photos?

There are all sorts of different looking people everywhere in North. They might loose their deep suntan when living in Europe? I know this guy who went back to Bengal for a few weeks, he was a lot darker when he came back, but he lost the extra tan after a few weeks when he came back .

I've been to Bangladesh a few times, I do tan but after an hour, it's no longer tanning but burning (I lost several layers of skin on holiday in Malta once!).

My father, who is fairer and has blue/hazel eyes (I got mum's eyes and colour), just burns a horrible lobster red.

My ex, who is Kashmiri, is the same complexion as me and also lost layers of skin on that holiday.

I know some Sylhetis who are more SEA type, one of my friends did a 23&me and got 47% East Asian!!

And they tan smoothly and deeply, but then they're also more deep olive/brown normally.

The main differences, the things that surprised me most, are obviously the skin colour being so dark, then the faces being generally more rounded, even on the men.

The noses are generally fatter at the bottom, more like pipes all the way along, than the tall thin types or the extra large "aubergines" of Rushdie's description.

Many of them even have very fine brows compared to the people I see and know.

Just generally very different.

[turbosat]

I've been to Bangladesh a few times, I do tan but after an hour, it's no longer tanning but burning (I lost several layers of skin on holiday in Malta once!).

My father, who is fairer and has blue/hazel eyes (I got mum's eyes and colour), just burns a horrible lobster red.

My ex, who is Kashmiri, is the same complexion as me and also lost layers of skin on that holiday.

I know some Sylhetis who are more SEA type, one of my friends did a 23&me and got 47% East Asian!!

And they tan smoothly and deeply, but then they're also more deep olive/brown normally.

The main differences, the things that surprised me most, are obviously the skin colour being so dark, then the faces being generally more rounded, even on the men.

The noses are generally fatter at the bottom, more like pipes all the way along, than the tall thin types or the extra large "aubergines" of Rushdie's description.

Many of them even have very fine brows compared to the people I see and know.

Just generally very different.

Actually the guy I know is Bangladeshi. He is light brown and little reddish in UK, when he came back from Bangladesh he was a lot darker. He showed me a pic of his brother who came to meet him at airport. The brother looked completely different and like a lighter Afghan Pashtun almost. It was surprising. I will try to find out a bit more about them later if I can.


But here is a Bengali from 1971 with Gen Manekshaw to his left and some Sikh officer on right.

https://previews.agefotostock.com/previewimage/medibigoff/580c006ea8e630bfd5586c48fab651e1/mwo-mw014288.jpg

[Pro.crasti.nation]

Actually the guy I know is Bangladeshi. He is light brown and little reddish in UK, when he came back from Bangladesh he was a lot darker. He showed me a pic of his brother who came to meet him at airport. The brother looked completely different and like a lighter Afghan Pashtun almost. It was surprising. I will try to find out a bit more about them later if I can.

Ah, that happens too. If we're talking Sylhetis, then there are many families with huge internal variations. This is not the case for my family or our wider 'clan', but Sylhetis are a mix of many races, including some Arab and Pathan.

I've seen families where one child is light and the other dark. Just the variations in their ancestry.

[lameduck]

Honestly, I would be very surprised if they were at all typical for Northern South Asia.

I obviously don't know the situation in South Asia but, I've met Afghan, Pakistani, Marathi, Gujarati, Punjabi, Bengali, Tamil, Sri Lankan (Sinhalese) and of course Kashmiri people, in Europe and the variability has definitely been bounded by ethnicity.

None of the Northern people I've met, looked like the people in op's photos.

I'm just very surprised by the images.

many farmers working outside in Pakistani and Indian Punjab have this pigmentation

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/0d/f8/730df8a4ab578f4b47974faa1a26030a.jpg

[Pro.crasti.nation]

many farmers working outside in Pakistani and Indian Punjab have this pigmentation

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/73/0d/f8/730df8a4ab578f4b47974faa1a26030a.jpg
You can quickly see how many are lighter than the others, aside from the very odd looking black haired young man in the front, wearing a jacket. The guy behind him with the white pagri (?) and moustache, looks like a desi Omar Shariff. The skin tone is more what I'd expect of a villager of the region.

The front extreme right guy, is what a tan looks like, compared to the front dark guy.

The facial features are different too, for most of them.

[Purohit ji]

Do u have any links regarding ancestry from gilgit also are there any Muslim Kashmiri results anywhere. They look pan North Indian Brahmin types some do look more stereotypical mountain types tho.

See kashmiri result. 161 to 163.
They are very similar in genetics brahmin and arab slaves
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit?usp=drivesdk

[anonpunjabi]

MI and strong Brachid influence on some. Don’t look Punjabi, they pass in HP.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[bann]

Again perfect example of Kashmiri muslims mixing with iranics. These pandits look straight out of Gangetic plains. Indo-brachids with lots of facial fat.

[aherne]

Typical Indian faces (Caucasoid + Veddoid), fitting only in subcontinent! Seems like there is a phenotype difference from Muslim Indians due to much larger Iranid influence in latter...

[aherne]

Abdul Manan Butt(kinda look like Pak PM imran khan)

https://pbs.twimg.com/profile_images/3469580929/f6705314bcd2755a6e37536c3efcfc49_400x400.png

Wow! I'm kind of shocked: this guy looks Aryan! Profile picture:

https://i.hipinpakistan.com/large/2018/07/5b3f19107835b.jpg

Nobody would EVER expect Indians to look like that.. As always, mixture of European and some Iranid creates pseudo-Italian looks