Do you consider Jewish as Europeans?

[Enr1989]

Here some pics of Italians Jewish journalists
Discuss
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[TheMaestro]

Being a jew, can be a religion and "ethnicity". When it comes to Ashkenazis, who look European, I have no problem considering them European. Aswell Pre-Saphardic who have roots from Spain.

[Enr1989]

How about the phenotypes I posted?

[Phenix]

Your examples are all Nafri-like, regardless, I consider Ashkenazim and Sepharadim to be Europeans in the modern sense of term.

[Enr1989]

Europeans or MENA mainly?

[Ayetooey]

Ashkenazis yes.

[Enr1989]

Your examples are all Nafri-like, regardless, I consider Ashkenazim and Sepharadim to be Europeans in the modern sense of term.


Well I didn't cherry pick these are just the most popular liberal opinionists you can see in TV here

What you mean with "modern sense of the term"?

[Phenix]

Well I didn't cherry pick these are just the most popular liberal opinionists you can see in TV here

What you mean with "modern sense of the term"?

I didn't accuse you of cherry-picking, jeez, why are people suspicious whenever MENA aesthetics are involved?

Culturally, Jews were not Europeans until the enlightenment era and the introduction of republican values to the principle of full and plain citizenship for all subjects of previous monarchies, after French revolution.

[MysteriousWays]

Yes for Ashkenazim and Sephardim.

[Lazio]

I didn't accuse you of cherry-picking, jeez, why are people suspicious whenever MENA aesthetics are involved?

Culturally, Jews were not Europeans until the enlightenment era and the introduction of republican values to the principle of full and plain citizenship for all subjects of previous monarchies, after French revolution.

Napoleon that let the Jews out of the ghettos tho.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ac70e0bb2ae2b15e9848703f591e0147/tenor.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c920019fecf54e56f5dea0752f293c5/tenor.gif

[Enr1989]

Yes for Ashkenazim and Sephardim.

Italian Jews are Sepharadim so also those in the pics

[Enr1989]

Napoleon that let the Jews out of the ghettos tho.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ac70e0bb2ae2b15e9848703f591e0147/tenor.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c920019fecf54e56f5dea0752f293c5/tenor.gif
Napoleon was a disgrace for Europe, everything he has done

[MysteriousWays]

Italian Jews are Sepharadim so also those in the pics

Didn't mean to exclude Italkim, and I consider them European, yes.

[Caradog]

Ashkenazis? lol

They claim to be hungarian, slovak, polish, but when you see them they look nothing like the local populations in those countries..

[Lazio]

Do you consider Jewish as Europeans?




https://media2.giphy.com/media/eKrgVyZ7zLvJrgZNZn/giphy.gif


https://media2.giphy.com/media/SwTyOUq3VjpHpXb2Bw/giphy.gif

[Phenix]

Napoleon that let the Jews out of the ghettos tho.

https://media1.tenor.com/images/ac70e0bb2ae2b15e9848703f591e0147/tenor.gif
https://media1.tenor.com/images/3c920019fecf54e56f5dea0752f293c5/tenor.gif

French republicans granted the Jews full citizenship under the 1791 constitution before Napoléon.

[Lazio]

French republicans granted the Jews full citizenship under the 1791 constitution before Napoléon.

Like they say, paper don't refuse ink...
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/paper-121120222557-phpapp01/95/the-ghetto-20-3-638.jpg?cb=1353450460

[Phenix]

Like they say, paper don't refuse ink...
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/paper-121120222557-phpapp01/95/the-ghetto-20-3-638.jpg?cb=1353450460

The photo means nothing, here is some academic work in proof.

https://www.lhistoire.fr/la-bataille-de-l%C3%A9mancipation

Republican French were the first to emancipate Jews in Europe, the reforms tarried because of the war, Napoléon made it effective, but was not his original plan. And after the great Sanhédrin of 1807, he dropped previous reforms in his "infamous decree" a year after.

[Lazio]

Napoléon made it effective,

Yes, that is what I'm saying since the beginning (he putted in practice).


but was not his original plan.

I didn't claim that.

[Deneb]

Phenotipically some of them look more "white" than certain European groups and of course Jews are culturally more European in every sense than Caucasians or Latin Americans.

[Enr1989]

Geographically no. Phenotipically and culturally yes, at least some of them, who look more "white" than certain European groups and of course Jews are more European in every sense than Caucasians or Latin Americans.
My opinion is that most of them have a recognizable phenotype despite being Europe for thousands of year and culturally they are still distinct despite being out of ghettos for hundreds.
I think this prove they are unassimilable plus they are overapresented in sector of public life and lobbying for the self of course.

I really doubt that Argentina, Uruguayan and some Chileans and Brazilians are less Europeans both culturally and genetically.

[Phenix]

Yes, that is what I'm saying since the beginning (he putted in practice).



I didn't claim that.

OK, thanks for making it clear.

[Deneb]

My opinion is that most of them have a recognizable phenotype despite being Europe for thousands of year and culturally they are still distinct despite being out of ghettos for hundreds.
I think this prove they are unassimilable plus they are overapresented in sector of public life and lobbying for the self of course.

I really doubt that Argentina, Uruguayan and some Chileans and Brazilians are less Europeans both culturally and genetically.

I'm pretty sure about it. By the way, you are not European, so it is funny because you are judging who is and who is not.

[Enr1989]

I'm pretty sure about it. By the way, you are not European.

And what am I?

[Root]

excluding their possible European physical characteristics and knowing one of the European languages as their mother tongue those Jews who love Germany or Belarus than Israel may be considered Europeans

[Lazio]

Geographically no.
OP was about juice, not Israel.


culturally yes
https://media1.giphy.com/media/sDOhzJBsFvjMY/giphy.gif


Latin Americans.
Many are more European (in genes and culture) than any Jew will ever be... in fact, many are more European than many Muricans that have a dumb superiority complex with that degenerate culture.

[Deneb]

OP was about juice, not Israel.


https://media1.giphy.com/media/sDOhzJBsFvjMY/giphy.gif


Many are more European (in genes and culture) than any Jew will ever be... in fact, many are more European than many Muricans that have a dumb superiority complex with that degenerate culture.

No one in Europe cares about the opinion of a Brazilian.

[Pro.crasti.nation]

In my experience, neither Jews nor the English consider them "white" (native).

Had a school friend who was 1/8th Jewish, very anti Jew (like pretty much everyone I knew, back in the '80s).

To me, most Jews here in England, look pretty East European. Though with doughy faces. So I guess I'd call them white.

[Duffmannn]

Jews are just jews.

There are jews of every race that exist. In Israel most of jews are mizhraji, thus they are like "arab-jews".

There are even black jews (falashas)

[Lazio]

People who think that Jews can fit culturally in Europe are materialistic individuals that are as good as blind.

https://quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/3840x2160/1565035-Maurice-Samuel-Quote-You-have-your-way-of-life-we-ours-In-your.jpg
https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/2d/3a/2d3a8c21a4f474724ddde36734f0629b/maurice-samuel-685174.jpg

[Gwydion]

Geographically and phenotypically, some are. Culturally and ultimately, no. For me Europeans are the descendants of ancient European pagans who later became Christians.

[MinervaItalica]

Here some pics of Italians Jewish journalists

90204

Gad Lerner is not really Italian... Both his parents are Jews and he is not even born in Italy to begin with. He just got the nationality and lives here. He's already different from Mentana for example.

In fact he looks way different from the others who have Italian parents and are mixed Italian/Jews.

And no they are not Europeans. They probably indetify as such, especially the ones who live in Europe since Roman times but their culture is Middle Eastern. The ones who live Europe are just Europeanized.

[Decius]

Fuck no

[Sandman]

Jews are not Europeans, neither in appearance nor in culture. They are Middle Eastern people.

[Voskos]

Today anyone can be a european if they have a decent job, a hot wife , nice tuxedo and somewhat whiteish facial features.

[Kivan]

Yes, of course. Everybody knows Israel is located in Europe and that Jews are blonde and Nordic looking, as users in this site like to state. :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE&t=100s

[Ford]

Ashkenazi and some Sephardi Jews, yes.

[Decius]

Your a cuck if you consider kikes to be european.

[Satem]

Yes, of course. Everybody knows Israel is located in Europe and that Jews are blonde and Nordic looking, as users in this site like to state. :rolleyes:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE&t=100s

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[Ayetooey]

Your a cuck if you consider kikes to be european.

Whats a Jew ever done to you kid?

[Dawnbringer]

At best peripherally European based on genetics, culture, and phenotype.

Ashkenazi Jews may be between Far Southern Europeans and Central Europeans in pigmentation, but they are between Far Southern Europeans and Levantines in morphology. Their Morphology is very much peripheral to Europe.

[Corded]

No. some ashkenazis and sephardics could pass as euro, same as some turks, north-caucassians and tatars. but none of them Not fully european by genetically.

[Dragoon]

Nope.

[FountainOfSalmacis]

Never

[Jana]

To me Jews arent European but many jews are White.

[Jana]

Ashkenazis? lol

They claim to be hungarian, slovak, polish

No they dont.

[Dawnbringer]

They are significantly European influenced, but of West Asian origin.

Under these circumstances they cannot be viewed as anything more than peripherally European.

[Phenix]

People who think that Jews can fit culturally in Europe are materialistic individuals that are as good as blind.

https://quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/3840x2160/1565035-Maurice-Samuel-Quote-You-have-your-way-of-life-we-ours-In-your.jpg
https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/2d/3a/2d3a8c21a4f474724ddde36734f0629b/maurice-samuel-685174.jpg

It's not about personal view, Jews are de facto incorporated in the new Europe.

[Lazio]

It's not about personal view, Jews are de facto incorporated in the new Europe.

They are indeed
https://awiderbridge.org/wp-content/uploads/2015/05/ConchitaWrust.png
https://shyanguya.files.wordpress.com/2016/01/barbara-lerner-spectre.jpg
https://media.apnarm.net.au/media/images/2015/02/11/lns120515conchitawurst-fwum9gez9datv3jonj2_ct1880x930.jpg
https://i.kym-cdn.com/entries/icons/original/000/028/526/honklhonk.jpg

[Smeagol]

Any Jew identifying himself as a Jew over whatever nation he lives in, no. So the majority of Jews are not, but for example the great composer Mendelssohn who completely rejected any kind of Jewish identity or culture and became a Christian was obviously a European composer.

Genetically, Ashkenazi Jews are as European as South Italians and Greek Islanders and also cluster very close to ancient Greek and Roman samples we have and relatively distant from any Middle eastern population.

[Dawnbringer]

Any Jew identifying himself as a Jew over whatever nation he lives in, no. So the majority of Jews are not, but for example the great composer Mendelssohn who completely rejected any kind of Jewish identity or culture and became a Christian was obviously a European composer.

Genetically, Ashkenazi Jews are as European as South Italians and Greek Islanders and also cluster very close to ancient Greek and Roman samples we have and relatively distant from any Middle eastern population.

So you could say that Ashkenazi Jews are peripherally European. I think that’s a good description.

[Smeagol]

So you could say that Ashkenazi Jews are peripherally European. I think that’s a good description.

Genetically yes.

[Lazio]

Genetically, Ashkenazi Jews are as European as South Italians and Greek Islanders and also cluster very close to ancient Greek and Roman samples we have and relatively distant from any Middle eastern population.

Here you go again.

[Smeagol]

Here you go again.

Sorry if it bothers you, but it's true.

https://image.ibb.co/gKWmqf/EURO-PCA-v3.jpg

[Phenix]

People who think that Jews can fit culturally in Europe are materialistic individuals that are as good as blind.

https://quotefancy.com/media/wallpaper/3840x2160/1565035-Maurice-Samuel-Quote-You-have-your-way-of-life-we-ours-In-your.jpg
https://www.azquotes.com/public/picture_quotes/2d/3a/2d3a8c21a4f474724ddde36734f0629b/maurice-samuel-685174.jpg

It's not about personal view, Jews are de facto incorporated in the new Europe.

[MinervaItalica]

Here you go again.

Unfortunately that is an agenda here. I speak for experience. Let them believe it.

[Kamal900]

No, they're not. For as long as they identify themselves as Jewish then they shouldn't be treated any differently from other middle eastern ethnic groups.

[Smeagol]

Unfortunately that is an agenda here. I speak for experience. Let them believe it.

It's really not a matter of belief. It's just a genetic fact that bothers you.

[xtal]

Only Ashkenazim and Sephardics

[MinervaItalica]

It's really not a matter of belief. It's just a genetic fact that bothers you.

You're naive if you think that random maps picked around the web and perhaps edited by biased people bother me. This is why i let people believe it.

No one cares of genetics outside this forum and in Europe, perhaps in America since you don't have an identity.

I prefer history and culture which are the things that shape a population and tells what they are. Genetics are a bunch of manipulable numbers, one day they claim one thing and the day later they already claim the contrary.

[Smeagol]

You're naive if you think that random maps picked around the web and perhaps edited by biased people bother me. This is why i let people believe it.

Yes, every PCA plot and genetic result is fake. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

Out of curiosity who are Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jew's closest genetic relatives?

[MinervaItalica]

OT

People in op post (apart the last, Gad Larner) are Europeans because are half Italian and identify with Italian culture.

[Smeagol]

No one cares of genetics outside this forum and in Europe, perhaps in America since you don't have an identity.

American Southerners don't have an identity? Go on, explain that further with all your knowledge of America.

[MinervaItalica]

American Southerners don't have an identity? Go on, explain that further.

They are a mix of multiple ethnicities (European colonists, Native Americans, Africans etc...)


Yes, every PCA plot and genetic result is fake. Whatever you need to tell yourself.

You'll find easier to convince me that day is the same as night or that the Earth is flat. :thumb001:


Out of curiosity who are Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jew's closest genetic relatives?

As i said i don't care of genetics. It's not my business nor i care. :bored:

Ask them IRL and not online. Italians not for sure.

[Rædwald]

No

[Smeagol]

They are a mix of multiple ethnicities (European colonists, Africans etc...)

Most are just of British Isles descent (and the identity of the blacks is separate) but how would that mean a new identity and nation couldn't have been forged beginning in the 17th century? Do Afrikaners also not have an identity?

[1R0N M4N XL]

most of the jews arent white european with the exception of Ashkenazi & Sephardim.

and 2,000 years ago, those ashkenazis were mostly middle eastern.

[Smeagol]

You'll find easier to convince me that day is the same as night or that the Earth is flat. :thumb001:

I think it's funny you seem to think there's some conspiracy by geneticists to make Jews and South Italians close to each other, but okay it's your right to be skeptical of genetics.

[Smeagol]

and 2,000 years ago, those ashkenazis were mostly middle eastern.

Ashkenazis didn't exist 2,000 years ago.

[1R0N M4N XL]

Ashkenazis didn't exist 2,000 years ago.

Correct, 2,000 years they were middle eastern Semites. Same as Ethiopian Jews who were middle eastern Semites thousands of years ago.

[1R0N M4N XL]

from what my Jewish friends explained to m, is that jews are supposed to be related to the greeks as well.

[Smeagol]

Correct, 2,000 years they were middle eastern Semites. Same as Ethiopian Jews who were middle eastern Semites thousands of years ago.

Yes, they're all by definition heavily mixed today.

[Dawnbringer]

from what my Jewish friends explained to m, is that jews are supposed to be related to the greeks as well.

Western Jews (Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Italki) descend from both Greek-Speaking Jews who settled in Roman Italy during the time of the Roman Republic and Aramaic-speaking Jews that settled in Roman Italy during the time of Roman Empire.

The Jews who settled in Republican Rome has lived under Alexander the Great‘s empire and have been significantly influenced by Greek culture.

[1R0N M4N XL]

Western Jews (Ashkenazi/Sephardi/Italki) descend from both Greek-Speaking Jews who settled in Roman Italy during the time of the Roman Republic and Aramaic-speaking Jews that settled in Roman Italy during the time of Roman Empire.

The Jews who settled in Republican Rome has lived under Alexander the Great‘s empire and have been significantly influenced by Greek culture.

thnx. it explains the affinity between Greece and Israel.

[michal3141]

They are Southern Europeans i.e. Mediterraneans. In Northern Europe they would be exotic.

[KingOf]

I don't.
They are in the same category to me with Armenia/Turkey/Russia...
They are just allowed to enter different European contests.

[Dawnbringer]

Russia

Russians are very European. What do you mean by Russia? Indigenous Siberians?

[KingOf]

...

[KingOf]

Russians are very European. What do you mean by Russia? Indigenous Siberians?

True majority lives in the European part but still as a country it is very much related to Asia

[Dawnbringer]

True majority lives in the European part but still as a country it is very much related to Asia

We are talking in terms of ethnicity. Ethnic Russians are much more European than Ashkenazi Jews and are in no sense in the same category.

[KingOf]

We are talking in terms of ethnicity. Ethnic Russians are much more European than Ashkenazi Jews and are in no sense in the same category.

For example Russians from the area over Kazakhstan how much European/Asian are genetically?

[Dawnbringer]

For example Russians from the area over Kazakhstan how much European/Asian are genetically?

According to this study Russians have a similar East Asian gene flow to Finns at about 1/8th.

https://www.nature.com/articles/srep09500#f1

[Longbowman]

As individuals, yeah, IRL if you look European you're normally accepted as such, and most Jews at least pass, as do many MENAs. As a group, somewhat. But they're definitely viewed as more European than any South American group and possibly some SE European ones.


Many are more European (in genes and culture) than any Jew will ever be... in fact, many are more European than many Muricans that have a dumb superiority complex with that degenerate culture.

lol

'pls accept us pls, I don't wanna be brown, how dare u accept the jews how dare you accept them and not me, love me, love me!'

where's wadaad when you need him

[Lazio]

I think it's funny you seem to think there's some conspiracy by geneticists to make Jews and South Italians close to each other, but okay it's your right to be skeptical of genetics.

I think it's funny how in every possible opportunity you take the chance to spread, again - in the most shallow way, that "S. Italians and Greeks are very near/the same as Ashkenazim". If you're so engaged in that, please, do start a thread about it, explain to us your position IN DETAIL and then, at the end of a well presented thought/position, you perhaps can state that "m'dudes, Ashkenazim = S. Italians/Greeks ^.^" because just throwing a random chart or, again, giving your random claims without citing the sources (your deepest vice it seems), it's not enough to support such controversial claim. I want your historical data about when (documented/cited events not just "ancient times m'dude" and how that (a Semitic group in origin being equal/very-similar to meds) happened. Throw all the genetic info that you can gather about it - including another groups to exemplify: for instance "m'dudes, look at this data, by it we can conclude that Ashkenazim are the same as S. Italian and Greeks - in the same extent that Danish are the same as Swedish... go there Smeagol boy, take your time, I'm not rushing you, but if you intend to continue to spread that claim, enlighten us with all the info that you have about it.
I already explained you that, but let me write this again: in the shallow way that you describe, it is so vague that one can conclude many possible things by it, for instance:
-Jews (true "pure" ones) are close/same as Euro Meds (true "pure" ones).
or
-Meds were pimped by Jews in the past, so the Jews leaved their genetic mark in South Europe and S. Italians and Greeks are descendants of Jews.
or
-Jews in South Europe were exterminated by the Meds, but then, some of them saw how "good and great was the Jewish culture and religion" and a considerable number of Meds actually started to follow the religion giving a start to the Ashkenazim "branch".
or
-Jews in South Europe had a HUGE input of Meds (when? where? how?), and nowadays we have the Ashkenazim branch of Jews that are descendant of the Jews that lived in S. Europe and are Semitic mixed with Meds (but then later they went on towards North - Eastern Europe and also had mix there - and it's more recent - but yet, they still are the same/very close with S. Italians and Greeks ^.^).


I'm looking forward your future thread explaining for good your over stressed claim, have a nice weekend!

[Longbowman]

butthurt textwall

It's really not controversial and if you had any knowledge of population genetics you'd know that. He shouldn't have to defend conventionally accepted wisdom - you should be able to disprove it.

But you aren't, because you're a reactionary ignoramus who just hates Jews and desperately wants to be European and is offended (lulz) when people view Jews as Europeans even though by and large they don't even want to be viewed as such and refuse to view you as European even though you'd give your left nut to be seen as such.

BTW your last 'suggestion' was the most accurate - European Jews are generally accepted as being the descendants of (mostly) Jewish men and European women, hence 80% Levantine YDNA and 75-85% European mtDNA. We know of various conversion events over the course of the past 2,000 years but we don't know all of them (we must presume) and we don't know the numerical relevance each of them had, but the end result is that European Jews appear to be about 55% European by DNA (of which mostly Italian or Greek with some Eastern European admixture) and the rest mostly Levantine (going by atDNA).

If you want to know more, read a paper, don't ask Smeagol to regurgitate one. Lazy bum :lol:

[Kamal900]

I think it's funny how in every possible opportunity you take the chance to spread, again - in the most shallow way, that "S. Italians and Greeks are very near/the same as Ashkenazim". If you're so engaged in that, please, do start a thread about it, explain to us your position IN DETAIL and then, at the end of a well presented thought/position, you perhaps can state that "m'dudes, Ashkenazim = S. Italians/Greeks ^.^" because just throwing a random chart or, again, giving your random claims without citing the sources (your deepest vice it seems), it's not enough to support such controversial claim. I want your historical data about when (documented/cited events not just "ancient times m'dude" and how that (a Semitic group in origin being equal/very-similar to meds) happened. Throw all the genetic info that you can gather about it - including another groups to exemplify: for instance "m'dudes, look at this data, by it we can conclude that Ashkenazim are the same as S. Italian and Greeks - in the same extent that Danish are the same as Swedish... go there Smeagol boy, take your time, I'm not rushing you, but if you intend to continue to spread that claim, enlighten us with all the info that you have about it.
I already explained you that, but let me write this again: in the shallow way that you describe, it is so vague that one can conclude many possible things by it, for instance:
-Jews (true "pure" ones) are close/same as Euro Meds (true "pure" ones).
or
-Meds were pimped by Jews in the past, so the Jews leaved their genetic mark in South Europe and S. Italians and Greeks are descendants of Jews.
or
-Jews in South Europe were exterminated by the Meds, but then, some of them saw how "good and great was the Jewish culture and religion" and a considerable number of Meds actually started to follow the religion giving a start to the Ashkenazim "branch".
or
-Jews in South Europe had a HUGE input of Meds (when? where? how?), and nowadays we have the Ashkenazim branch of Jews that are descendant of the Jews that lived in S. Europe and are Semitic mixed with Meds (but then later they went on towards North - Eastern Europe and also had mix there - and it's more recent - but yet, they still are the same/very close with S. Italians and Greeks ^.^).


I'm looking forward your future thread explaining for good your over stressed claim, have a nice weekend!

Well, Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews mixed with North Italian women for the most part which made them shift to Southern Italians and Greek islanders who have significant ancient west Asian admixture in them. In other words, they judaized local Southern European women the same way that they judaized local Arabian women in exchange for giving Arab woman a baby in ancient times. Even though the Talmud claims that your mother have to be Jewish to be an ethnic Jew, Most Jewish people today are descendants between Levantine Israelite/Canaanite men and local judaized women. The reason why there wasn't any admixture between Arabic women and Jewish men of the middle east is simply because Islam forbids Islamic women to marry non-Muslim men, and that Jewish and Christian women didn't mixed heavily with Muslim men due to fear in losing their religious communities since children that are born from such mixture are considered to be Muslims only.

[Lazio]

But they're definitely viewed as more European than any South American group and possibly some SE European ones.
Maybe by shallow materialistic people that classify nations by economical success ("GIBE SHEKKELLSSSS PLS"), but S. America has MANY Euro groups, Italians are HUGE in some parts of Brazil and Argentina... Germans are here and there as well (I'm talking about pure descendants, not even mixed with other euros), and I've seen in Brazil even a LATVIAN community, so you're trying to pass the idea that a, lets say, 4th generation Latvian-Brazilian (from Latvian family only), is, somehow, less Euro than a Jew? : ))))))))



lol

'pls accept us pls, I don't wanna be brown, how dare u accept the jews how dare you accept them and not me, love me, love me!'

where's wadaad when you need him

Jew, don't project your complexes on me, I'm not American (but I'd rather be any sort of American any day than being a "chosen") - and if you see my posts, you'll notice quickly that I'm not eager, at all, to be accepted among Whites or any vague concept - I have a deep respect for Greek culture, I do like Iberians, for sure I love my own people and that's about it. Other Euro groups are neutral until they try to cross my way.

[Lazio]

If you want to know more, read a paper, don't ask Smeagol to regurgitate one. Lazy bum :lol:

No jew, if someone goes around claiming something they got to back it up, don't be a cynical here, it's unethical to claim things without backing it up - worse: to leave it vague for random assumptions that gives more confusion (and the first shit posts from him that I saw here was about Ancient Rome (historical facts) so I already see him with suspicion)... OH, BUT WAIT, I forgot for a second that I'm writing to a Jew, it must be hard for you to know what ethical behaviour means, sorry to interrupt your praises to the Shekkels, now go do your lame "thumb down" again to express how oppressed you are.

[Longbowman]

Maybe by shallow materialistic people that classify nations by economical success ("GIBE SHEKKELLSSSS PLS"), but S. America has MANY Euro groups, Italians are HUGE in some parts of Brazil and Argentina... Germans are here and there as well (I'm talking about pure descendants, not even mixed with other euros), and I've seen in Brazil even a LATVIAN community, so you're trying to pass the idea that a, lets say, 4th generation Latvian-Brazilian (from Latvian family only), is, somehow, less Euro than a Jew? : ))))))))

Nope - just that that's how people will see them.

And let's be honest, there aren't many *pure* whites in these countries. It's like Argentina - 97-98% of Argentines see themselves as 'white,' but the average Argentine is only 79% European. It's a continent of OWDers (for obvious historical reasons).


Jew, don't project your complexes on me, I'm not American (but I'd rather be any sort of American any day than being a "chosen") - and if you see my posts, you'll notice quickly that I'm not eager, at all, to be accepted among Whites or any vague concept - I have a deep respect for Greek culture, I do like Iberians, for sure I love my own people and that's about it. Other Euro groups are neutral until they try to cross my way.

I don't have OWD. I don't care about being viewed as white, I'm not dating a white person even though should I wish to the option is easily available to me (and I had white gfs in the past), blah blah. You on the other hand clearly do have OWD, regardless of your whiny feeble protests to the contrary, and you care deeply about the concept of Europe, which is not a continent you even pertain to.

Why would I care what some Nazi thinks about Jews? Oh, it hurts me so terribly to know a person consumed with hatred for Jews doesn't want to be one. Oh boo hoo, my feelings.

Inb4 'akshually I'm a national crypto anarchist' or whatever.

[Longbowman]

No jew, if someone goes around claiming something they got to back it up, don't be a cynical here, it's unethical to claim things without backing it up - worse: to leave it vague for random assumptions that gives more confusion (and the first shit posts from him that I saw here was about Ancient Rome (historical facts) so I already see him with suspicion)... OH, BUT WAIT, I forgot for a second that I'm writing to a Jew, it must be hard for you to know what ethical behaviour means, sorry to interrupt your praises to the Shekkels, now go do your lame "thumb down" again to express how oppressed you are.

He did back it up. And you're banned for a week, I've had enough of you.

[Catarinense1998]

Kkkkk things have gone wild here. Both are smart and good members, you people dont need to offend each other.

[Kamal900]

No jew, if someone goes around claiming something they got to back it up, don't be a cynical here, it's unethical to claim things without backing it up - worse: to leave it vague for random assumptions that gives more confusion (and the first shit posts from him that I saw here was about Ancient Rome (historical facts) so I already see him with suspicion)... OH, BUT WAIT, I forgot for a second that I'm writing to a Jew, it must be hard for you to know what ethical behaviour means, sorry to interrupt your praises to the Shekkels, now go do your lame "thumb down" again to express how oppressed you are.

Now that's really uncalled for, huh? Just because he's Jewish then he's automatically wrong? Smeagol was right on the fact that Askenazi and Sephardic Jews cluster very closely with Southern Italians and Greek islanders. They're in between Europe and West Asia.

[Catarinense1998]

Maybe by shallow materialistic people that classify nations by economical success ("GIBE SHEKKELLSSSS PLS"), but S. America has MANY Euro groups, Italians are HUGE in some parts of Brazil and Argentina... Germans are here and there as well (I'm talking about pure descendants, not even mixed with other euros), and I've seen in Brazil even a LATVIAN community, so you're trying to pass the idea that a, lets say, 4th generation Latvian-Brazilian (from Latvian family only), is, somehow, less Euro than a Jew? : ))))))))




Jew, don't project your complexes on me, I'm not American (but I'd rather be any sort of American any day than being a "chosen") - and if you see my posts, you'll notice quickly that I'm not eager, at all, to be accepted among Whites or any vague concept - I have a deep respect for Greek culture, I do like Iberians, for sure I love my own people and that's about it. Other Euro groups are neutral until they try to cross my way.

I have sure that almost none here has visited our country. People don't have ideia about the migrations that Brazil received, and how and when they happnened. And here is a thing, you should not expect it. Why would a british read anything about our history? I find funny how these people call us owd, considering that they feed this by looking down us (even being a pure euro like you). The roots of this social fact have economical and historical roots. Cut the roots out, destroy the center and the hegemonic mindset.

Welcome to the Ban list Mr. Lazio. Taking in account your nickname, I think that you are a palmeirense. Good luck in Libertadores.

[Longbowman]

I have sure that almost none here has visited our country. People don't have ideia about the migrations that Brazil received, and how and when they happnened. And here is a thing, you should not expect it. Why would a british read anything about our history? I find funny how these people call us owd, considering that they feed this by looking down us (even being a pure euro like you). The roots of this social fact have economical and historical roots. Cut the roots out, destroy the center and the hegemonic mindset.

Welcome to the Ban list Mr. Lazio. Taking in account your nickname, I think that you are a palmeirense. Good luck in Libertadores.

I know your history. Read my replies better. It is not out of ignorance that I think so lowly of you - not you, Brazilians, but you, Catarinense and Lazio.

[Catarinense1998]

I know your history. Read my replies better. It is not out of ignorance that I think so lowly of you - not you, Brazilians, but you, Catarinense and Lazio.

I know your history too. I was not replying you if I'm not mistaken. Please, stay far from me, and don't reply me never again.

[Longbowman]

I know your history too. I was not replying you if I'm not mistaken. Please, stay far from me, and don't reply me never again.

I'll do what I want, especially when you talk about me, even if you are not talking to me.

[Erronkari]

Nope - just that that's how people will see them.

And let's be honest, there aren't many *pure* whites in these countries. It's like Argentina - 97-98% of Argentines see themselves as 'white,' but the average Argentine is only 79% European. It's a continent of OWDers (for obvious historical reasons).


.[/SPOILER]

And more important than that is here only 25/30% of the population are 99/100% Euro.
The rest (more than 70% of the population) score at least 1% Native American.
But I'd like to say something.
Most people don't consider themselves as "white"... you can see that mostly in the internet, or from people of some "particular" behavior.
But most people here don't pay attention to that.
Most people consider themselves as "argentines" and don't care about races, at least in these times. May be 2 or 3 generations was different. But right now most people don't care about this, and it helps that in this country Racial Census doesn't exist... so % estimates which you can find anywhere I don't have the minimum idea where it comes from...
I am an example of that, I posted my tests, and I score between 95/98% Euro depending of each tests and I don't consider that I belong to a specific racial group. I just consider myself argentine, and a bit uruguayan too, because my dad was from there.

[Smeagol]

Lazio didn't even respond to my last post on the Nero thread debunking him point by point so I see little need here to make a long post explaining something most people on this forum already know is fact.

[Dawnbringer]

Lazio didn't even respond to my last post on the Nero thread debunking him point by point so I see little need here to make a long post explaining something most people on this forum already know is fact.

Complexes can’t simply be educated.

[El_Abominacion]

Europeans? Not really, as they have mixed genetics. But I do consider the vast majority of them to be ‘white’

[coolfrenchguy]

europeans,not really, westernised for most of them certainly ,indeed i'am pretty sure aside any polemics about religion or a special politic system than any euro will more able to survive mentally a few weeks in tel aviv ,he should certainly less desoriented than in saudia arabia,indeed israel is a real modern country,and the more funnier thing of the story it's a democratical republican laical country , it's mean than you could be buddhist if you want,i have check the status and it's a laical state,sure it's not NW europe,but in many ways israel is more near of a european mindset than the contrary even they have also middle eastern mindset and some middle eastern elements aside the religion

the 1948 declaration of Independence stated that the state would ensure "full equality of social and political rights to all its citizens, without distinction as to creed, race or sex" and "full freedom of conscience, religion, education and culture". »

why i take this parrallel and i talk about the israelian state, i don't wish became israelian don't worry not even close, but full "freedom of conscience religion education and culture", it's one of the most democratic state in the world,because israel is always shown as the big mean wolf,by many people,but in fact it's the complete opposite, i told you if you stay neutral aside religion or a very specific political mindset you could been non-jewish,or goyim if you prefer ,meaning not from the former hebraic tribe,and buddhist if you wish,i take buddhist because christian or muslim will became again on the political-religious path

now the israelians and the jewish diaspora is quite various from the most "europeanised" and very closed ethnically like paul newman
https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2 Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzM3MDU2Nzgx/paul-newman-9422564-1-402.jpg

to the oriental jews with a proximity with the MENAs from north africa for example, it's certain than classified the jews on a single or binary criteria is almost impossible
in the frame of daily laical life aside there cult,or any politico-religious debate,you could have an appointment with a surgeon,a dentist or a lawyer called levi or cohen
and this person will treated you like anyone else,stepping aside his own personnal belief(they even can have humour,yes, i assure you),at least is the case in many of our european countries,it's mean than the jewish diapora act like anyone, you have the most charming people and the most unbearable too,culturally ethnically and religiously is more complex than a switch euro/non euro
you have patriot jews you love there country ,you even could find some of them in the army of the country where they living
but on a pure taxonomy form i wouldn't says than the jews could been classified as european they composed a very specific group aside who belongs to them,but under the biological anthopometric form in the five groups who are :Australoïd ,Capoïd , Caucasoïd, Mongoloïd, Negroïd they fit the Caucasoïd group

[Bellbeaking]

The non European in jews is Levantine, which is Close to European genetically, just ask Sikeliot. I would say they are basically Europeans. They look like Europeans and cluster with them. We all have a certain amount of DNA from the levant.

[Token]

The non European in jews is Levantine, which is Close to European genetically, just ask Sikeliot. I would say they are basically Europeans. They look like Europeans and cluster with them. We all have a certain amount of DNA from the levant.

Hahahaha.

[Token]

Jews are like 60% European. Mostly Aegean with some Slavic admixture. They also have some pre-Christian German admixture. One interesting fact is that the European ancestry of Jews comes almost entirely from their maternal side.

[Dawnbringer]

Jews are like 60% European. Mostly Aegean with some Slavic admixture. They also have some pre-Christian German admixture. One interesting fact is that the European ancestry of Jews comes almost entirely from their maternal side.

As the native inhabitants of Germania inferior and superior were a mix between Gallic and Germanic, early Jewish settlers in Cologne and Speyer mixing with native pagan women could explain Gallic admixture as well as Germanic admixture among Ashkenazi Jews.

During Roman times Jews would have more contact with Gallic than Germanic peoples.

[Arsen_]

If the Jew lives in Europe and looks like a European, behaves like a European, shares European values and identifies himself first of all as a European, then he is a European. One should be idiot to reject him.

So this is primarily a matter of self-identification.

[Roy]

To me authentic Jews are not European.

[Roy]

europeans,not really, westernised for most of them certainly ,indeed i'am pretty sure aside any polemics about religion or a special politic system than any euro will more able to survive mentally a few weeks in tel aviv ,he should certainly less desoriented than in saudia arabia,indeed israel is a real modern country,and the more funnier thing of the story it's a democratical republican laical country , it's mean than you could be buddhist if you want,i have check the status and it's a laical state,sure it's not NW europe,but in many ways israel is more near of a european mindset than the contrary even they have also middle eastern mindset and some middle eastern elements aside the religion

the 1948 declaration of Independence stated that the state would ensure "full equality of social and political rights to all its citizens, without distinction as to creed, race or sex" and "full freedom of conscience, religion, education and culture". »

why i take this parrallel and i talk about the israelian state, i don't wish became israelian don't worry not even close, but full "freedom of conscience religion education and culture", it's one of the most democratic state in the world,because israel is always shown as the big mean wolf,by many people,but in fact it's the complete opposite, i told you if you stay neutral aside religion or a very specific political mindset you could been non-jewish,or goyim if you prefer ,meaning not from the former hebraic tribe,and buddhist if you wish,i take buddhist because christian or muslim will became again on the political-religious path

now the israelians and the jewish diaspora is quite various from the most "europeanised" and very closed ethnically like paul newman
https://www.biography.com/.image/ar_1:1%2Cc_fill%2Ccs_srgb%2Cg_face%2Cq_auto:good%2 Cw_300/MTE1ODA0OTcxNzM3MDU2Nzgx/paul-newman-9422564-1-402.jpg

to the oriental jews with a proximity with the MENAs from north africa for example, it's certain than classified the jews on a single or binary criteria is almost impossible
in the frame of daily laical life aside there cult,or any politico-religious debate,you could have an appointment with a surgeon,a dentist or a lawyer called levi or cohen
and this person will treated you like anyone else,stepping aside his own personnal belief(they even can have humour,yes, i assure you),at least is the case in many of our european countries,it's mean than the jewish diapora act like anyone, you have the most charming people and the most unbearable too,culturally ethnically and religiously is more complex than a switch euro/non euro
you have patriot jews you love there country ,you even could find some of them in the army of the country where they living
but on a pure taxonomy form i wouldn't says than the jews could been classified as european they composed a very specific group aside who belongs to them,but under the biological anthopometric form in the five groups who are :Australoïd ,Capoïd , Caucasoïd, Mongoloïd, Negroïd they fit the Caucasoïd group

Paul Newman was half-Slovak (his mother was Slovak immigrant) so hardly Jewish, especially if you consider that according to Jews themselves you inherit your Jewishness from maternal side. Also he didn't practice Judaism afaik. All in all, an extremely poor example.

[Longbowman]

Paul Newman was half-Slovak (his mother was Slovak immigrant) so hardly Jewish, especially if you consider that according to Jews themselves you inherit your Jewishness from maternal side. Also he didn't practice Judaism afaik. All in all, an extremely poor example.

Correct except the last part - he identified as Jewish. Would Orthodox Jews accept him? no.

[Cumansky]

Jews yes they are usually more than half south Euro

Some Jews are different

[Smeagol]

Correct except the last part - he identified as Jewish. Would Orthodox Jews accept him? no.

Paul Newman called himself Jewish but he didn't actually practice the religion.

[RenaRyuguu]

Paul Newman called himself Jewish but he didn't actually practice the religion.

I don't think he was genetically Jewish. He prob took the religion cuz of Hollywood.

[Smeagol]

I don't think he was genetically Jewish. He prob took the religion cuz of Hollywood.

His father was definitely Jewish. His mother was not, so according to Orthodox Jews he wasn't I guess.

[RenaRyuguu]

His father was definitely Jewish. His mother was not, so according to Orthodox Jews he wasn't I guess.

I guess ya

[Creoda]

How could Ashkenazi Jews be half Roman if Romans were supposedly South Italian like?

Is it possible that they are predominantly Roman/Greek with some paternal Jewish blood, who converted to Judaism?

How would this idea that they were basically half 'North Italian' play out?

How Germanic/Slavic are they and how Jewish are the German/Slavic areas in which they lived/flourished?

Too many open questions for a people we never stop hearing about.

[coolfrenchguy]

Paul Newman was half-Slovak (his mother was Slovak immigrant) so hardly Jewish, especially if you consider that according to Jews themselves you inherit your Jewishness from maternal side. Also he didn't practice Judaism afaik. All in all, an extremely poor example.

maybe he wasn't 100% kosher because her mom but his grand-parents : Simon Newman et Hannah Cohn are 100% kosher

[RenaRyuguu]

Kosher is just a diet

[aherne]

Same as Gypsies: they are strongly mixed with Europeans, capable of producing European like individuals. Probably levels of admixture are the same, but Middle Easterners blend much better with Europeans than Indians.

[Roy]

Correct except the last part - he identified as Jewish. Would Orthodox Jews accept him? no.

Well it is possible still. :)

[blogen]

No. A Near-Eastern diaspora, as the Arabs or Kurds.

[MinervaItalica]

Jews yes they are usually more than half south Euro

Some Jews are different

That's strage, all the Jews i know are mixed with people from Central Europe.

[AlfonsoVIII]

Jews are Levantines, not Europeans.

[Smeagol]

Jews are Levantines, not Europeans.

Genetically they aren't Levantine.

[AlfonsoVIII]

Genetically they aren't Levantine.

Genetically they are more near to Arabs and other Semitic peoples than to Europeans.

[Smeagol]

Genetically they are more near to Arabs and other Semitic peoples than to Europeans.

Actually they're closest to South Italians and Greeks.

[Dawnbringer]

Actually they're closest to South Italians and Greeks.

Especially East Sicilians and Cretans.

[Tellerin]

The main question is: Are they consider themselves Europeans?



Genetically they are more near to Arabs and other Semitic peoples than to Europeans.
nope ...

[Longbowman]

The main question is: Are they consider themselves Europeans?

A good question. Some do, but I think the majority stress their Middle Eastern patrilineage and play down or even deny the European genetic component to their ancestry (where applicable) and even to their culture, which is ludicrous considering their Indo-European vernaculars.

[Percivalle]

Yes, Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews. In real life I have a couple of friends who are Jewish (one is Ashkenazi and the other one is Sephardic) and both consider themselves European.

[Pine]

The main question is: Are they consider themselves Europeans?


Most Jews don't live in Europe, so it's irrelevant and therefore also harder to gauge. You'll have to poll the Jews still in Europe.

[coolfrenchguy]

Same as Gypsies: they are strongly mixed with Europeans, capable of producing European like individuals. Probably levels of admixture are the same, but Middle Easterners blend much better with Europeans than Indians.
indians from india or native americans?
well some jews fit very euro-like,but the sefaradims(maghreb) looks more MENA mostly
if we takes the actors and other celebs for example gal gadot don't look semitic at all ,she's look like more italian/med but not semitic ,indeed in israel and it's the funny part of the thing, many israelians don't look jewish,it's reminds me the tv show "dig" with jason isaacs and anne heche on the murder of an archeologist with a story located in israel

https://hips.hearstapps.com/hmg-prod.s3.amazonaws.com/images/galupdate2-1509988125.jpg
https://vignette.wikia.nocookie.net/disney/images/1/13/Gal_Gadot.jpg/revision/latest?cb=20180811005357https://static1.purepeople.com/articles/6/13/28/56/@/1320758-gal-gadot-attending-the-universal-950x0-1.jpg

[AlfonsoVIII]

The main question is: Are they consider themselves Europeans?



nope ...

Oh yes...

[Bakha]

No they even dont consider themselves as europeans, why then europeans should consider them as ones?

[Pine]

Everyone asking whether Jews identify as European is asking the wrong question. The real answer is that Jews don't think about this. Jews identify as Jews and they don't consciously associate that with either Europe or the Middle East. They're not regulars at theapricity.com. This isn't an issue for them. However, diasporic Ashkenazim certainly identify as white and at the same time associate their ancient ancestry with ancient Judeans. The main reason they don't see any conflict between the two is because they simply don't think about it. Go ahead, pull out opinion pieces written by activists, it still doesn't change the trend. I had a related conversation with a Haredi Jew recently. He thought that Jews are European in every way, including genetically. Yet, when asked if he therefore thought he entirely descended from converts, he instantly paused and for a while. The reason for this is because he never gave a shit till I brought it up. I was surprised, because I didn't expect Haredim to think this way. I thought they would've believed they were overwhelmingly Middle Eastern. It turns out that at least a certain portion of Haredim are under the impression that they simply have some extremely diluted ancestry connecting them to their ancient forefathers and the rest of it is keeping up with the commandments.

[Smeagol]

However, diasporic Ashkenazim certainly identify as white and at the same time associate their ancient ancestry with ancient Judeans

This is the case in America. Many Jews don't seem to even realize they have native European ancestry, but most of them call themselves white regardless. Likely has to do with the fact that Levantines have historically been considered white here anyway, although I've noticed this perception changing in the last few years.

[Pine]

This is the case in America. Many Jews don't seem to even realize they have native European ancestry, but most of them call themselves white regardless. Likely has to do with the fact that Levantines have historically been considered white here anyway, although I've noticed this perception changing in the last few years.

Region: Mississippi

[Smeagol]

Region: Mississippi

I've lived in Pennsylvania for a long period of time and used to go to New York frequently.

[Pine]

I've lived in Pennsylvania for a long period of time and used to go to New York frequently.

And you would commonly ask Jews if they think they had any converts in their family within 2000 years?

[Smeagol]

And you would commonly ask Jews if they think they had any converts in their family within 2000 years?

Not exactly, but I've had Jewish co-workers who I talked to about history and Israel. That's the impression that I got from them.

[Dawnbringer]

And you would commonly ask Jews if they think they had any converts in their family within 2000 years?

Smeagol was obviously not referring to Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews having no native European ancestry, but other Jews such as oriental Jews.

[kleenex]

I believe genetically 75% West Euro 25% Levant so primarily Euro.

[Smeagol]

Smeagol was obviously not referring to Ashkenazi/Sephardi Jews having no native European ancestry, but other Jews such as oriental Jews.

No, I mean that Ashkenazi Jews in my experience tend to just see themselves as Hebrews with minimal if any European ancestry. Again, this is just based on my experience.

[kaltar]

I believe they are

[Rgvgjhvv]

I believe genetically 75% West Euro 25% Levant so primarily Euro.

I think it's actually closer to 50/50 than 75/25.

[Pine]

No, I mean that Ashkenazi Jews in my experience tend to just see themselves as Hebrews with minimal if any European ancestry. Again, this is just based on my experience.

In a couple of posts, you went from stating that many are not aware that they have European admixture, to some coworkers having "minimal if any European ancestry". What did they tell you - "I'm a pure Judean. Hear me roar." I don't buy it.

[Smeagol]

In a couple of posts, you went from stating that many are not aware that they have European admixture, to some coworkers having "minimal if any European ancestry". What did they tell you - "I'm a pure Judean. Hear me roar." I don't buy it.

Feel free to believe whatever you want. I've talked to various Jews who mentioned that Jews have never really mixed with anyone since they came to Europe. One girl scored like 98% Ashkenazi on 23andMe and thought it meant she was 98% Israelite even though it was included in the European category.

[Dawnbringer]

Feel free to believe whatever you want. I've talked to various Jews who mentioned that Jews have never really mixed with anyone since they came to Europe. One girl scored like 98% Ashkenazi on 23andMe and thought it meant she was 98% Israelite even though it was included in the European category.

I would have thought Jews would be smarter than that.

[Pine]

Feel free to believe whatever you want. I've talked to various Jews who mentioned that Jews have never really mixed with anyone since they came to Europe. One girl scored like 98% Ashkenazi on 23andMe and thought it meant she was 98% Israelite even though it was included in the European category.

"never really" - common, you want to say that they denied admixture, but they didn't. I know what they probably said. They probably said "Maybe here and there, but it would've been rare". That's really the most extreme statement you can hear. The girl isn't an example of how Jews view themselves or of how even she viewed herself before. She's just someone who misinterpreted a DNA test, as many people do. More Jews walk away thinking they're 100% European because Ashkenazi is in the European category. She just happened to err the other way.

[aherne]

First of all, you need to go to Israel then tell me how European they are. Even after 2000 years, majority phenotype continues to be Arabid (Semitic), mixed strongly with East Med then other elements as well (both from Judaean and foreign base).

[Smeagol]

In America, when people imagine Jewish looks they tend to think of guys like Woody Allen and Larry David. Not sure what they'd be classified as.

[Creoda]

I think it's actually closer to 50/50 than 75/25.
The question is are they 50/50 from the Roman era or are they 50/50 from the Bronze Age era.

[Zroota]

Only Ashkenazi Jews.

[Longbowman]

"never really" - common, you want to say that they denied admixture, but they didn't. I know what they probably said. They probably said "Maybe here and there, but it would've been rare". That's really the most extreme statement you can hear. The girl isn't an example of how Jews view themselves or of how even she viewed herself before. She's just someone who misinterpreted a DNA test, as many people do. More Jews walk away thinking they're 100% European because Ashkenazi is in the European category. She just happened to err the other way.

I'll stick up for Smeagol here - a large number of Jews, particularly religious ones, are dismissive of the idea they have significant European blood, and quite a few will explain traits that are likely European as 'oh you know, my ancestors were raped by Cossacks, that's why I have blue eyes' semi-jokingly (without clocking that that would mean they are equally the descendants of the Cossack rapists, not that that narrative rings true). The notion they're about 40% SE European has not dawned on 99% of them (but then again, outside of anthrofora, why would they care?).


Everyone asking whether Jews identify as European is asking the wrong question. The real answer is that Jews don't think about this. Jews identify as Jews and they don't consciously associate that with either Europe or the Middle East. They're not regulars at theapricity.com. This isn't an issue for them. However, diasporic Ashkenazim certainly identify as white and at the same time associate their ancient ancestry with ancient Judeans. The main reason they don't see any conflict between the two is because they simply don't think about it. Go ahead, pull out opinion pieces written by activists, it still doesn't change the trend. I had a related conversation with a Haredi Jew recently. He thought that Jews are European in every way, including genetically. Yet, when asked if he therefore thought he entirely descended from converts, he instantly paused and for a while. The reason for this is because he never gave a shit till I brought it up. I was surprised, because I didn't expect Haredim to think this way. I thought they would've believed they were overwhelmingly Middle Eastern. It turns out that at least a certain portion of Haredim are under the impression that they simply have some extremely diluted ancestry connecting them to their ancient forefathers and the rest of it is keeping up with the commandments.

This is anecdotal. Half my family is Haredi and they identify as 'white' but they also look at Lebanese as 'white,' they don't see the contradiction. They still believe themselves to be overwhelmingly if not entirely Israelite/Judean and this is the case with most religious Jews, and many non-religious ones, too. Yes, Haredim do occasionally surprise you with diverse perspectives on topics that aren't 'official party line' items, but I have a lot more contact with them than you ever will, m80.

[Universe]

It depends on how they identify

[Pine]

I'll stick up for Smeagol here - a large number of Jews, particularly religious ones, are dismissive of the idea they have significant European blood, and quite a few will explain traits that are likely European as 'oh you know, my ancestors were raped by Cossacks, that's why I have blue eyes' semi-jokingly (without clocking that that would mean they are equally the descendants of the Cossack rapists, not that that narrative rings true). The notion they're about 40% SE European has not dawned on 99% of them (but then again, outside of anthrofora, why would they care?).

People of any ethnicity generally default to the assumption that their ancient ancestry overwhelmingly matches their current identity. The real question you should've asked is not "why would they care?", but "why would they think so?". The only good reason to think so is precisely if one is familiar with genetic studies, be it by reading them or soaking up misreadings of those studies from anthroforums. Smeagol didn't claim that the vast majority of Jews do not think that their European ancestry is as high as 40%, but that they think they're pure Israelites. Here is a line that is much more common than the rape-by-Cossacks: "So and so in my family is really dark/Semitic/looks like an Arab - I must be part Sephardi". And that's not even a semi-joke. It's a serious hypothesis they have. If they attribute Middle Eastern features to non-Ashkenazi introgression, do these people really walk around thinking they have no European influence? Tell me which happens more often - shock when their DNA results come with some European %s or shock when they don't. We both know it's the latter. You never hear "What's this 2.0% South European and 0.4% East European!?", whereas "Wait, why is there like no Russian or Polish? My zeyde even lived in Poland. Shouldn't there be some?" isn't at all uncommon. I'm not cherrypicking with the following example; it's simply fresh in mind because I read it a day ago: https://www.reddit.com/r/AncestryDNA/comments/cp0c9a/im_a_sephardic_jew_so_this_seems_about_right_the/ . Even though he's not Ashkenazi, he is much closer to the norm than those who think they're like me and are a pure Judean. And one of the reasons why you hear the Cossack rape comment is because while Jews are aware they're probably not pure Judeans, they interpret such admixture through European Jewish history, which is overwhelmingly anti-Semitic.



This is anecdotal. Half my family is Haredi and they identify as 'white' but they also look at Lebanese as 'white,' they don't see the contradiction. They still believe themselves to be overwhelmingly if not entirely Israelite/Judean and this is the case with most religious Jews, and many non-religious ones, too. Yes, Haredim do occasionally surprise you with diverse perspectives on topics that aren't 'official party line' items, but I have a lot more contact with them than you ever will, m80.

I clearly framed the experience as anecdotal and didn't generalize it beyond " at least a certain portion of Haredim". You missed the point. The point is that finding even a small portion like that among Haredim hints at it being much larger among those who don't have a religious narrative to reinforce a pure Israelite identity. Also, you'll never be more shtetl than me. When I say Haredim, I mean Haredim - not Modern Orthodox or Orthodox. I used to interact with Lubavitchers on a daily basis. I've spoken to Bobovers and Breslovers plenty. My shul's attendance is roughly as follows: 20% Haredim, 40% Orthodox, 20% Modern Orthodox, 10% pure Judeans like me. I used to go daily and sit there for half a day, because all we did was just talk. The only way you had more contact is if you attended a Yeshiva and I used to spend 2 days a week at the Lubavitcher Yeshiva. Don't kid me here, Reb Yid. Now, as for their views on their ancestry and genetics, that rarely came up, as these people are skeptical of science to begin with. I used to debate evolution with a prominent Haredi involved with the Slifkin affair. However, you can take certain statements from them as proxy for how they think. They refer to one another by their old countries. It was always odd to hear things like "the Hirschmans are a Russian family". I'm less generations removed from Europe than the average Western Jew and because of this, Jews, and particularly Haredim are shocked that I don't look like the natives from my European diaspora. If they don't think Jews pick up local admixture, then why would they react this way? This is hardly anecdotal. This happens very frequently and I know that it happens to others. Another instance that comes to mind is 2 Lubavitchers telling me that my dark hair may be sign of Sephardic influence. As silly as this is, it's not something you hear from people who think that we're unadulterated desert dwellers. Those involved in Kiruv(outreach to seculars) target those with East European phenotypes, because they associate that with Jews. Do most Haredim think they're overwhelmingly of Israelite extraction? I don't disagree. Do they think they're pure? No. And regardless, Smeagol doesn't interact with the Haredi minority.

[AphroditeWorshiper]

Definitely not European

European it's someone with 99/100% Ethnic origins in European continent

Jews are mainly European(genetics) with various degrees of Middle East, even if a Jew look European in phenotype, he still it's not a European

[Longbowman]

.

1) People who take DNA tests are not representative of the whole for obvious reasons
2) Mate my mum's family is Sephardi Modox (S&P), my dad's family is Haredi and Hassidic, even religiously (but not practically) anti-Zionist Hassidic. You meeting a few here and there will never be equivalent to my summers as a child and teenager.

I take the point about dark-Sephardi but it's also a reflection of an approximately 150 year trend of wanting to be Sephardi on the part of educated Ashkenazim.

[Dawnbringer]

I take the point about dark-Sephardi but it's also a reflection of an approximately 150 year trend of wanting to be Sephardi on the part of educated Ashkenazim.

I would recommend this book on the subject:

http://de.tinypic.com/view.php?pic=2w7lqmv&s=9

https://books.google.com/books?id=8kjuCQAAQBAJ&dq=the+allure+of+the+sephardic&hl=de

[Longbowman]

I would recommend this book on the subject:
https://books.google.com/books?id=8kjuCQAAQBAJ&printsec=frontcover&hl=de&source=gbs_ge_summary_r&cad=0

https://books.google.com/books?id=8kjuCQAAQBAJ&dq=the+allure+of+the+sephardic&hl=de

Yes, it's well documented, and some extremely prominent Ashkenazim of the 19th and 20th centuries are known to have convinced themselves of Sephardic ancestors that didn't exist - either on the basis of odd names, or, as I point out, swarthiness. A good example is Herzl, who convinced himself he was 1/8 Balkan Sephardic (he wasn't). It was incredibly prevalent, particularly amongst the educated classes, and as such I and many other Sephardim and others tend to be wary of claims of distant Sephardic ancestry on the part of Ashkenazim.

We can call this Off Sephardi Disorder for jokes, but it's actually a symptom of Ashkenazi self-hatred, which is the largest and severest sub-disorder of Jewish self-hatred.

[Dawnbringer]

Yes, it's well documented, and some extremely prominent Ashkenazim of the 19th and 20th centuries are known to have convinced themselves of Sephardic ancestors that didn't exist - either on the basis of odd names, or, as I point out, swarthiness. A good example is Herzl, who convinced himself he was 1/8 Balkan Sephardic (he wasn't). It was incredibly prevalent, particularly amongst the educated classes, and as such I and many other Sephardim and others tend to be wary of claims of distant Sephardic ancestry on the part of Ashkenazim.

We can call this Off Sephardi Disorder for jokes, but it's actually a symptom of Ashkenazi self-hatred, which is the largest and severest sub-disorder of Jewish self-hatred.

In the 19th century, Sephardic Jews were seen as more elegant and noble than the common Ashkenazic Jew.

In countries like the Netherlands, England, and Romania where Sephardic Jews have maintained a presence longer than Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardim were favored as more assimilable and less subversive.

In Wallachia, the Southern and capital province of Romania Sephardic Jews were preferred over Ashkenazi Jews because they had lived there since the 16th century and Ashkenazi Jews only with the late 19th century. Wallachians saw Sephardim as Mediterranean and closer ethnically to them than the ‚barbaric’ Ashkenazim of Asiatic (as in Mongoloid) origin coming in from the Northern provinces (Moldova and Transylvania).

[Bakha]

Definitely not European

European it's someone with 99/100% Ethnic origins in European continent

Jews are mainly European(genetics) with various degrees of Middle East, even if a Jew look European in phenotype, he still it's not a European

Lmao no. They are mainly middle eastern (east med) with various degree of euro, the same as south italians (they are also not euros), thats why they cluster together.

[Pine]

1) People who take DNA tests are not representative of the whole for obvious reasons
2) Mate my mum's family is Sephardi Modox (S&P), my dad's family is Haredi and Hassidic, even religiously (but not practically) anti-Zionist Hassidic. You meeting a few here and there will never be equivalent to my summers as a child and teenager.

I take the point about dark-Sephardi but it's also a reflection of an approximately 150 year trend of wanting to be Sephardi on the part of educated Ashkenazim.

1. Those who don't take DNA tests, generally don't provide commentary on DNA and such tests are becoming more mainstream. We also know that Jews are overepresentative in this market.
2. I made it very clear that it's more than " a few here and there". You may have met more, but my sample is large enough to draw a conclusion.

I mentioned that these comments are from seculars. The trend you're alluding to is from the religious to raise their "Yichus". They could've said "Mizrachi" just as well, but Sephardi is now the catch-all-term for all non-Ashkenazim. I agree that some of that may be part of the modern trend to seem more exotic. However, I never noticed any enthusiasm (nor shame, of course) when they stated this and there was no effort on their part to inject that info into the conversion. Instead, it's normally a side comment during any extended Jewish conversation about ancestral origins.

[Longbowman]

In the 19th century, Sephardic Jews were seen as more elegant and noble than the common Ashkenazic Jew.

In countries like the Netherlands, England, and Romania where Sephardic Jews have maintained a presence longer than Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardim were favored as more more assimilable and less subversive.

In Wallachia, the Southern and capital province of Romania Sephardic Jews were preferred over Ashkenazi Jews because they had lived there since the 16th century and Ashkenazi Jews only with the late 19th century. Wallachians saw Sephardim as Mediterranean and closer ethnically to them than the ‚barbaric’ Ashkenazim of Asiatic (as in Mongoloid) origin coming in from the Northern provinces (Moldova and Transylvania).

Well, in the Ashkenazis' defense, the Sephardim in many places actively took steps to ensure their numbers were small, so that they could preserve their wealth and erudition without threatening their 'hosts' with high numbers. This even stretched to dissuading other Sephardim from joining some communities. Growth was supposed to be slow. An example: some of my ancestors who fled Portugal in the 1700s went to London, and were immediately convinced to go to Georgia, USA in order form a Sephardic colony there (the colony almost immediately moved to Charleston SC for fear of Spanish invasion).

The Ashkenazim had become poor after the end of the renaissance and their state-sponsored monopoly on usury, and after centuries of no real self-governance, the last vestiges of which died out with an independent Poland, no military tradition, and the full scorn of many of their neighbours, they internalised these negative stereotypes and looked to the Sephardim as the European Jewish ideal - wealthy, not hated, assimilated, educated, and productive - Sephardic rite and Sephardic rabbonim were and are very well respected and influential.

Of course the reality is that many (but not all) Sephardic communities were less than a century away from assimilation into the Christian mainstream usually with Reform Judaism as a stepping-stone, were heavily inbred, or were just as poor and backwards as the Ashkenazim (Eastern Sephardim, North Africans) but the Ashkenazim only saw the creme-de-la-creme in the Netherlands, England, and Italy.

These Sephardim had got lucky with geography/made some astute choices in moving to wealthy parts of the world - the Caribbean, London, Amsterdam, parts of France, northern Italy, Denmark and Hamburg - and had become prosperous and assimilated due to access to the great trading zones of the world - the 17th and 18th centuries' silk roads.

Unfortunately, Ashkenazi self-hatred persists strongly until today. It was not helped by the common view of the Holocaust and involving Jewish, primarily Ashkenazi (but again, unlucky with geography - the Dutch and Balkan Sephardim fared no better), being herded like docile sheep into gas chambers. Israelis sometimes exhibit a certain degree of shame at their association with the Ashkenazim of Europe in the 1940s, and try to distance themselves from Ashkenazi culture as they see it. Ashkenazim are not really viewed positively in the West (although in the East they're viewed very positively) in the physical sense - and the worst culprits are other Ashkenazim.

The problem will not resolve itself in our lifetime, although non-Hassidic Israeli Ashkenazim will blend into the modern Israeli demographic amalgam that is the future of Jewry.

[Longbowman]

1. Those who don't take DNA tests, generally don't provide commentary on DNA and such tests are becoming more mainstream.
2. I made it very clear that it's more than " a few here and there". You may have met more, but my sample is large enough to draw a conclusion.

I mentioned that these comments are from seculars. The trend you're alluding to is from the religious to raise their "Yichus". They could've said "Mizrachi" just as well, but Sephardi is now the catch-all-term for all non-Ashkenazim. I agree that some of that may be part of the modern trend to seem more exotic. However, I never noticed any enthusiasm (nor shame, of course) when they stated this and there was no effort on their part to inject that info into the conversion. Instead, it's normally a side comment during any extended Jewish conversation about ancestral origins.

Lulz no. Seculars are if anything more affected, as Hassidim, for example, don't usually favour mixing between Ashkenazim and Sephardim (or other Jews) and will often forbid it (they just use Ashkenazi-only shadkhanim and so on). There's a lot of literature about this, and it leads to tensions occasionally in Israel. Hassidim are the only group of Ashkenazim generally unaffected by the phenomenon, perhaps due to their adoption of the endemically Ashkenazi charismatic Judaism (or 'Judaism' if you will) that they practise.

It's a marked and extremely common trend amongst Ashkenazim, particularly the educated and secular, as I said, and whilst I agree it's been augmented by the modern 'Cherokee-in-the-woodpile' and 'idpol' phenomena, it goes back almost two centuries. And the families that convinced themselves they were part Sephardic two centuries ago passed that misinformation down, which is why people casually saying someone told them they come from ancient Iberian lineage is usually at least indirectly symptomatic of the Ashkenazi self-hatred I described above.

[Pine]

In the 19th century, Sephardic Jews were seen as more elegant and noble than the common Ashkenazic Jew.

In countries like the Netherlands, England, and Romania where Sephardic Jews have maintained a presence longer than Ashkenazi Jews, Sephardim were favored as more assimilable and less subversive.

In Wallachia, the Southern and capital province of Romania Sephardic Jews were preferred over Ashkenazi Jews because they had lived there since the 16th century and Ashkenazi Jews only with the late 19th century. Wallachians saw Sephardim as Mediterranean and closer ethnically to them than the ‚barbaric’ Ashkenazim of Asiatic (as in Mongoloid) origin coming in from the Northern provinces (Moldova and Transylvania).


Do you have a source for this?

[Pine]

It's a marked and extremely common trend amongst Ashkenazim, particularly the educated and secular, as I said, and whilst I agree it's been augmented by the modern 'Cherokee-in-the-woodpile' and 'idpol' phenomena, it goes back almost two centuries. And the families that convinced themselves they were part Sephardic two centuries ago passed that misinformation down, which is why people casually saying someone told them they come from ancient Iberian lineage is usually at least indirectly symptomatic of the Ashkenazi self-hatred I described above.

Stop it - You don't know this. A surprising amount of Ashkenazi YDNA lineages are Sephardi, a greater % than I've heard claim Sephardi ancestry.

[Longbowman]

Stop it - You don't know this. A surprising amount of Ashkenazi YDNA lineages are Sephardi, a greater % than I've heard claim Sephardi ancestry.

I do know it. At the very least, as I said, there are books with scores of examples of prominent Ashkenazim outright making up ancestors, and presumably many of their descendants repeat the claims. There are several articles about people dealing with the realisation that the family lore is fictional out there in the inter-ether. It's a significant phenomenon even if Sephardic admixture in Ashkenazim is significant, which it is not, and I don't think your reasons for believing otherwise are purely academic, as we've discussed before.

[Pine]

I do know it. At the very least, as I said, there are books with scores of examples of prominent Ashkenazim outright making up ancestors, and presumably many of their descendants repeat the claims. There are several articles about people dealing with the realisation that the family lore is fictional out there in the inter-ether. It's a significant phenomenon even if Sephardic admixture in Ashkenazim is significant, which it is not, and I don't think your reasons for believing otherwise are purely academic, as we've discussed before.

You don't know that this is usually the case, which I bolded from you. I agree that it's sometimes the case. What you've suggested for "my reasons for believing" is irrelevant, when 6% of Ashkenazi YDNA is of Iberian origin alone, never mind the Levantine Sephardic YDNA. source: https://jewishdna.net/FAQ.html. I don't see 1 of 16 Ashkenazim claim Sephardic ancestry. And when you factor in the other Sephardic lines, it becomes silly to state that more are lying than those who have it. Sure, the claim that the motivation behind this is primarily motivated by old social trends and not actual ancestry is separate from what DNA shows us. However, since the % of those who claim it isn't higher than the % of those who do have such YDNA lineages (I'm not even factoring in Sephardic MTDNA), you can't know that majority are repeating a social construct. You can speculate that this is the case. You can bet on it, but you cannot state it as a fact.

[Longbowman]

You don't know that this is usually the case, which I bolded from you. I agree that it's sometimes the case. What you've suggested for "my reasons for believing" is irrelevant, when 6% of Ashkenazi YDNA is of Iberian origin alone, never mind the Levantine Sephardic YDNA. source: https://jewishdna.net/FAQ.html. I don't see 1 of 16 Ashkenazim claim Sephardic ancestry. And when you factor in the other Sephardic lines, it becomes silly to state that more are lying than those who have it. Sure, the claim that the motivation behind this is primarily motivated by old social trends and not actual ancestry is separate from what DNA shows us. However, since the % of those who claim it isn't higher than the % of those who do have such YDNA lineages (I'm not even factoring in Sephardic MTDNA), you can't know that majority are repeating a social construct. You can speculate that this is the case. You can bet on it, but you cannot state it as a fact.

Dude, Iberia maybe =/= Iberia =/= lineages that left after the 1492 expulsion. Iirc the MRCAs are well before this. The % chance that a full 6% of Ashkenazi DNA (implied, not stated by you; also 7% in the link you gave me) is Sephardi is dismissable out of hand.

Fine, I can't know it with 100% certainty. I don't think anyone read it thinking I had stats to prove it. Happy?

[Pine]

Dude, Iberia maybe =/= Iberia =/= lineages that left after the 1492 expulsion. Iirc the MRCAs are well before this. The % chance that a full 6% of Ashkenazi DNA (implied, not stated by you; also 7% in the link you gave me) is Sephardi is dismissable out of hand.

Fine, I can't know it with 100% certainty. I don't think anyone read it thinking I had stats to prove it. Happy?

Let's take the most common one: R1b-Ivanhoe. MRCA for Sephardim and Ashkenazim is 800BP. And I know you agree that Sephardim began before then. Yes, not all are from the expulsion, but enough are from when Sephardim became a distinct group, that my point remains.

[Longbowman]

Let's take the most common one: R1b-Ivanhoe. MRCA for Sephardim and Ashkenazim is 800BP. And I know you agree that Sephardim began before then. Yes, not all are from the expulsion, but enough are from when Sephardim became a distinct group, that my point remains.

I don't really trust MRCAs to be honest, it's like dating trees, not the exactest of sciences. However, as I implied, there was a lot of migration before (including well before) 1492 (going both ways) which could explain a slightly greater spread of 'Sephardic' cluster YDNA. Furthermore, I strongly doubt it's as much as 2%, that's just not borne out by atDNA or history. If it is, methods must be reevaluated.

[Dawnbringer]

[/B]

Do you have a source for this?

Yes. Nicolae Iorga and Octavian Goga

https://books.google.com/books?id=KBHwUOPyszAC&pg=PA64&dq=romania+jews+barbarians&hl=de&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjx7cH_4IPkAhWmslkKHfB0AnMQ6AEIMzAC#v=on epage&q=romania%20jews%20barbarians&f=false


Nicolae Iorga repeatedly deceived this precise type of Jew: „Russet, with freckles,“ „with a red beard, tangled and ending in fringes,“ barbarians who seem to arrive from fiery Asia

https://books.google.com/books?dq=wallachia+jews+sephardim&hl=en&id=Hc3HabBQsdsC&pg=PA160&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjL4rHq9LLjAhWsmuAKHYCpCPkQ6AEIJzAA#v=on epage&q=wallachia%20jews%20sephardim&f=false


In his interview with the French newspaper Paris Soir, Octavian Goga spoke of his preference for the olive-skinned, black-eyed, reasonably fine-featured Jews of the Old Kingdom (Wallachia) who have descended from the Spanish Jews of the fifteenth century (although Jews did not settle in Romania immediately after expulsion, so more 16th century), while denigrating the horde of ‚barbaric, Jews in the recently acquired Romanian provinces (Transylvannia and Moldova), who had originated in Poland and Russia and whose dominant features included slanted eyes, flattened faces, and reddish skin

It is implied that Goga considers the Asiatic look as foreign to Wallachia and the fine-featured Mediterranean look as more typical and desirable.

The physical stereotype of Ashkenazi Jews in Wallachia is atypical because they are not darker pigmented than gentile Wallachians. In other cases with countries with both groups like England and the Netherlands both Ashkenazi and Sephardic Jews are darker pigmented than the indigenous population, while in Wallachia it depended more on the group. Ashkenazi Jews were stereotyped as relatively fair while Sephardic Jews were viewed as darker like Ashkenazi Jews are typically viewed by their host populations.

These circumstances make Wallachia an unique case.

[KuriousKatKommittee]

Off Sephardi Disorder
lul (Q.E.D.).

Israelis sometimes exhibit a certain degree of shame at their association with the Ashkenazim of Europe in the 1940s, and try to distance themselves from Ashkenazi culture as they see it.
Tbh, the informal United States' 52nd State of Israel (official name: 美利堅合眾國以色列特別行政區)'s government (governor-general Bibi) has brewed 99 motherfucking problems but Hebraization of European Ashkenazim ("Hebrewin' us a cup of new, BETTER, master race Yids. Ah, tastes like Israel!" t. Max Nordau) ain't one of them. No opinion on changing surnames but dropping that half-assed Germanic pidgin that's almost offensive to listen to was a good thing. An archaic abomination born out of necessity and convenience where even the seemingly "Hebrew-pronunciation loyal™ accent" is a tantamount to poorly dubbed anime with stereotypical Japanese accents (think Mojo Jojo in 1990s Powerpuff Girls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLwZd30TFq4)). Fiddler on the Roof? Mojo Jojo performance stretched for over 3 hours. That's Yiddish for ya. Yikes. [press D to Dab]

What I am saying, in my very own special contrived aspietastic way trying to be cute (I frankly don't give two h*cks about the topic that much except I know a good thing when I see it), is that what Israel did with European Ashkenazim was a Good Thing™.

[Dawnbringer]

lul (Q.E.D.).

Tbh, the informal United States' 52nd State of Israel (official name: 美利堅合眾國以色列特別行政區)'s government (governor-general Bibi) has brewed 99 motherfucking problems but Hebraization of European Ashkenazim ("Hebrewin' us a cup of new, BETTER, master race Yids. Ah, tastes like Israel!" t. Max Nordau) ain't one of them. No opinion on changing surnames but dropping that half-assed Germanic pidgin that's almost offensive to listen to was a good thing. An archaic abomination born out of necessity and convenience where even the seemingly "Hebrew-pronunciation loyal™ accent" is a tantamount to poorly dubbed anime with stereotypical Japanese accents (think Mojo Jojo in 1990s Powerpuff Girls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLwZd30TFq4)). Fiddler on the Roof? Mojo Jojo performance stretched for over 3 hours. That's Yiddish for ya. Yikes. [press D to Dab]

What I am saying, in my very own special contrived aspietastic way trying to be cute (I frankly don't give two h*cks about the topic that much except I know a good thing when I see it), is that what Israel did with European Ashkenazim was a Good Thing™.

By the way, you have no proof that you are Ashkenazi. You don’t sound personal enough to be taken seriously.

[Smeagol]

By the way, you have no proof that you are Ashkenazi. You don’t sound personal enough to be taken seriously.

Are you really part Negro?

[Longbowman]

lul (Q.E.D.).

Tbh, the informal United States' 52nd State of Israel (official name: 美利堅合眾國以色列特別行政區)'s government (governor-general Bibi) has brewed 99 motherfucking problems but Hebraization of European Ashkenazim ("Hebrewin' us a cup of new, BETTER, master race Yids. Ah, tastes like Israel!" t. Max Nordau) ain't one of them. No opinion on changing surnames but dropping that half-assed Germanic pidgin that's almost offensive to listen to was a good thing. An archaic abomination born out of necessity and convenience where even the seemingly "Hebrew-pronunciation loyal™ accent" is a tantamount to poorly dubbed anime with stereotypical Japanese accents (think Mojo Jojo in 1990s Powerpuff Girls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLwZd30TFq4)). Fiddler on the Roof? Mojo Jojo performance stretched for over 3 hours. That's Yiddish for ya. Yikes. [press D to Dab]

What I am saying, in my very own special contrived aspietastic way trying to be cute (I frankly don't give two h*cks about the topic that much except I know a good thing when I see it), is that what Israel did with European Ashkenazim was a Good Thing™.

Didn't call it bad. Just called it partially a symptom of Ashkenazi self-hatred. Although there was significant pushback at the time.

[Mortimer]

I consider them European. But if they consider themselfes middle eastern I wouldnt object.

[Pine]

lul (Q.E.D.).

Tbh, the informal United States' 52nd State of Israel (official name: 美利堅合眾國以色列特別行政區)'s government (governor-general Bibi) has brewed 99 motherfucking problems but Hebraization of European Ashkenazim ("Hebrewin' us a cup of new, BETTER, master race Yids. Ah, tastes like Israel!" t. Max Nordau) ain't one of them. No opinion on changing surnames but dropping that half-assed Germanic pidgin that's almost offensive to listen to was a good thing. An archaic abomination born out of necessity and convenience where even the seemingly "Hebrew-pronunciation loyal™ accent" is a tantamount to poorly dubbed anime with stereotypical Japanese accents (think Mojo Jojo in 1990s Powerpuff Girls (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KLwZd30TFq4)). Fiddler on the Roof? Mojo Jojo performance stretched for over 3 hours. That's Yiddish for ya. Yikes. [press D to Dab]

What I am saying, in my very own special contrived aspietastic way trying to be cute (I frankly don't give two h*cks about the topic that much except I know a good thing when I see it), is that what Israel did with European Ashkenazim was a Good Thing™.

Having a Berber surname is no more Jewish than having a Polish or a German surname. Ironically, you exhibit the self-hatred Bowman was talking about, assuming you are an African Ashkenazi. What are you?

Nothing good came out of Israel banning Yiddish during certain periods. Anti-Zionist socialists capitalized on this (I know Big Pun is your favorite rapper). It widened the rift between seculars and Haredim. And it extended the integration period for Soviet Jews, as Yiddish was more or less the only Jewish thing they were familiar with. The most pathetic thing is that you only hear this shit from Ashkenazim. It also happens that you almost never hear Sephardim and Mizrachim complain about Yiddish. You'll never hear Sephardim shit on Ladino, despite it being Spanish with retard spelling or Mizrachim denouncing their languages, even though they're equally headache inducing. Look what this self-hatred resulted in. Israelis now rather eat bird food than a pastrami sandwich.

MAKE ISRAEL ASHKENAZI AGAIN


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9VlvAYHzMgk

[山有扶苏]

Ashkenazi Jews are, of course, Europeans. In my opinion, they look like Europeans, and there may be some subtle differences. Even if they are genetically clustered with southern Italy and Greece, they are significantly more Western European in appearance than southern Italians and Greeks