Which country is most responsible for the rise and ascendancy of the Western and European world?

[Joe McCarthy]

Similar to the other thread but I've added a few more countries.

[Mercury]

I went with Greece, we wouldn't have made it far if it wasn't for Greek civilization.

[Raskolnikov]

Iran/China/Venezula.

[Sikeliot]

Italy and Greece.

[poiuytrewq0987]

Well, if we're talking about its very beginnings then I'd commend the Greeks for starting Western civilisation and the Italians for cementing it.

[Payens]

England, with its writers and inventors. Spain with its reconquista, global exploration, and defense of European Christianity. All European nations did their part, yet England and Spain pushed our superior European culture to a global level. A culture that was a symphony produced by all Europeans.

[Joe McCarthy]

Well, if we're talking about its very beginnings then I'd commend the Greeks for starting Western civilisation and the Italians for cementing it.

Yet the West only really began to outpace rival civilizations after the Age of Discovery, which rates Portugal and Spain highly, and then with Britain, the Netherlands, and modern economics and industrialism. The world in its luxuries and conveniences though is mostly a product of American inventions.

[Sikeliot]

I also have to give credit to Spain, Portugal, France, and Britain for spreading Western civilization to the New World :)

[Duckelf]

I picked quite a number of options as many different countries played a part. It is no accident that the greatest empires of the last few centuries have all been European, for the providence of history would have it that we rose together as a great European race.

[Wyn]

Greece, Italy, Portugal, Spain, England. Meant to vote for Spain in the poll, but apparently didn't select it.

[Logan]

Had the query been put in the plural I would have noted Greece. Otherwise, I had only to tic the UK.

[Joe McCarthy]

Looking at the poll result so far it'd be interesting for someone to explain how Germany surpasses the US in Western ascendancy. Putting aside the disastrous effects of German bellicosity the US beats Germany in almost every field, save music, including in inventiveness, where Germany excels.

[Payens]

Looking at the poll result so far it'd be interesting for someone to explain how Germany surpasses the US in Western ascendancy. Putting aside the disastrous effects of German bellicosity the US beats Germany in almost every field, save music, including in inventiveness, where Germany excels.

I would say it is on subjective and sentimental grounds. Many European nationalists have a weak spot for Germany. Including me :) did vote for Spain though.

[Joe McCarthy]

I would say it is on subjective and sentimental grounds. Many European nationalists have a weak spot for Germany. Including me :) did vote for Spain though.

Yes, agreed - sentiment it is. Very little of what many European nationalists think of Germany, much less the US, is based in reality.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Many countries played a role, but England played the greatest role far above and beyond anyone else in the rise & ascendancy of the western/European world

[Grumpy Cat]

I'm inclined to vote the UK because of the British Empire and also their great inventions during the Industrial Revolution.

But France was what inspired them to expand into North America, when they were competing over Canada and this lead to the creation of the US which is a superpower now.

However, you cannot deny Spain and Portugal's role, for starting the age of Western expansion.

Germany had a role, though. It was the Germans who first invented the printing press and started mass publishing, which lead to education for all, and a free press which is one characteristic of Western civilization.

Then, well, Canada's contribution should be noted, the first Charter of Human Rights (which Marxists took too far, yes).

Western civilization was at its peak in the Age of Exploration, and started to decline during and after the two World Wars. The Baby Boomer generation that was born after the wars drove the last nail in the coffin.

[Joe McCarthy]

No offense to our Dutch friends, but I'm also dissatisfied that the country that gave the world virtually all of the major inventions of great moment over the last century plus (the list is endless), put a man on the moon (no moon landing conspiracies, please), etc., is trailing Holland.

[GeistFaust]

My thoughts are Germany and Great Britain(Including Scotland). Italy and Greece might have made some nice contributions in the ancient and classical world but I don't think you can still hang your hat on to them to this day. The greatest minds, innovators, and inventions came out of Great Britain and Germany from the 16th century onwards to the mid 20th century. The most amount of patented inventions to this day has come out of Great Britain and Germany. Alot of the greatest cultural, intellectual, and scientific advancements to this day are British or German and if your American well the French unfortunately had a great deal of influence on the intellectual, cultural, and especially political structure of America but the British and German mindsets prevail.

[SwordoftheVistula]

No offense to our Dutch friends, but I'm also dissatisfied that the country that gave the world virtually all of the major inventions of great moment over the last century plus (the list is endless), put a man on the moon (no moon landing conspiracies, please), etc., is trailing Holland.

Well Germany had a role in a lot of the inventions of the last century, jet engine and rocketry come to mind, and scientists from there fueled the space race in both US and USSR.

Both Germany and the US came to prominence after the 'rise and ascendancy' or western civilization though.

[Joe McCarthy]

Well Germany had a role in a lot of the inventions of the last century, jet engine and rocketry come to mind, and scientists from there fueled the space race in both US and USSR.

Both Germany and the US came to prominence after the 'rise and ascendancy' or western civilization though.

Yes, in relative terms there's no doubt that Britain led the way in the 19th century in that its industrialism caused the West to blow past the rest of the world in power and affluence. Nevertheless, it was still ruling over a substandard world by our standards with a horse and buggy transportation system. The tremendous technological improvements over the last, say, 140 years, are largely a function of the United States, and themselves represent a form of ascendancy.

[Curtis24]

I would say it was Britain. Britain essentially conquered both India and China - the two most advanced and populous civilizations after the West - and it was Britain which founded America. Which more than any Latin American colony expanded Western Civilization to the New World.

[Aces High]

What language are you all speaking.:cool:

End of thread.;)

[Joe McCarthy]

What language are you all speaking.:cool:

End of thread.;)

That all of these people are speaking English is mostly a function of American power post-war. I agree Britain should win this poll, but you've only helped me illustrate how the American impact is being understated.

[Loki]

One could make a distinction between classical and other times. Certainly civilization is built upon Greek thought and achievement (they of course borrowed and were inspired by earlier cultures in the Middle East and Africa) and later Roman hegemony, order and law.

After that, the fall of the Roman Empire, we have to thank the Franks (and France) for uniting large parts of Western Europe (including Germany) under their realm and bringing stability to Europe - setting the stage for gradual advancement until we come to the age of discovery where the maritime powers took the lead, as we all know.

[Nurzat]

greece? HAHA. greece wasn't a great nation for the last +2 millenia... MOLDOVA IS RESPONSIBLE FOR THE RISING OF THE WEST but now seriously:

ENGLAND FOR THE INDUSTRIAL REVOLUTION
FRANCE FOR THE IDEAS AND THE REVOLUTION
GERMANY FOR TAKING THE BEST OF THE PHILOSOPHICAL AND PRACTICAL STUFF AND BEING EUROPE'S ENGINE THEN AND NOW

[Aces High]

That all of these people are speaking English is mostly a function of American power post-war.

No,its because of the British empire/coloniolism and its still felt consequences.

[BeerBaron]

Clearly Britain and the USA, I don't see how this is very debatable it's overwhelmingly Britain, and the USA is continuing it.

[Joe McCarthy]

No,its because of the British empire/coloniolism and its still felt consequences.

What impact has the British Empire had on people speaking English in Romania in 2011? Answer: not much.

[Loki]

There are many ways one can cut this, and angles you can view it from. Europe has been dominated by Germanic tribes and kingdoms ever since the fall of the Roman Empire. These tribes came to influence the whole of central Europe, England, parts of Scotland, Spain, northern Italy and Eastern Europe. They brought rule of kingdoms and demarcation.

All of these tribes had one thing in common - they originated in southern Scandinavia, which is now Sweden (has been called the "womb of nations"). This little pocket of northern Europe produced tribes and peoples like a factory - all bent on emigration and conquest. And that they did throughout Europe, changing everything.

One could call this a Germanicist perspective but it's factual and interesting.

[Aces High]

What impact has the British Empire had on people speaking English in Romania in 2011? Answer: not much.

How many Romanians speak English...?...about seven,yet the whole of the US,Canada,Africa and the Indian sub continent Australia New zealand and Arabia all speak English and its got fuck all to do with pax americana.

[d3cimat3d]

In chronological order, first Greece, then Italy & then the icing on the cake, the UK.
Maybe Germany too, but I feel Germany held Europe & the west back 50 years or so. Who knows what we could have accomplished by now. Could have spent all that time & money colonizing space or something instead of killing each other.

[Loki]

Maybe Germany too, but I feel Germany held Europe & the west back 50 years or so. Who knows what we could have accomplished by now. Could have spent all that time & money colonizing space or something instead of killing each other.

Unfortunately the sad truth is that wars actually spur on development by putting immense pressure on humans to perform, achieve and discover. Many of the technologies we use today derive from war-driven discoveries.

[BeerBaron]

How many Romanians speak English...?...about seven,yet the whole of the US,Canada,Africa and the Indian sub continent Australia New zealand and Arabia all speak English and its got fuck all to do with pax americana.

Most romanians under 30 can speak english. It's interesting you argue that because the american dialect is "business english" so there are more people in the world that speak the american dialect than the english one.

[d3cimat3d]

Unfortunately the sad truth is that wars actually spur on development by putting immense pressure on humans to perform, achieve and discover. Many of the technologies we use today derive from war-driven discoveries.

True that, war tends to give the economy a boost too, but still you can't put a price on human life IMO, especially at a time when the future demographic situation in Europe looks uncertain.

[Aces High]

there are more people in the world that speak the american dialect than the english one.

What utter shit.

Australians,Candadians,New Zealenders,South africans,Britons,and the trillion people on the Indian sub continent and in Pakistan dont speak business American English,you ought to get out more......
not to mention the fact that in twenty years in the US people will be speaking some form of Spanish hispanic mix due to the thousands of chicano juicers pouring over the borders every day.

All you people with your anti British angst make me laugh.

[Joe McCarthy]

How many Romanians speak English...?...about seven,yet the whole of the US,Canada,Africa and the Indian sub continent Australia New zealand and Arabia all speak English and its got fuck all to do with pax americana.

Obviously Britain is responsible for English in the ex-settler colonies, the commonwealth, etc., but that isn't what I'm talking about. That English has spread as a global language over wide swaths of the earth is something that has occurred post-1945.

[ikki]

Lithuania forgotten, without whom the mongols woud have come rolling all over europe year after year.

Greece was critical many times over in keeping the cradle safe and strengthening. Italy more akin to just failed. And yes i attribute the ERE to Greece, not Italy.

The real break with the rest of the world came with Napoleon. UK otoh has mostly only been sabotaging the attempts of others to secure a future for themselves.

[Aces High]

O That English has spread as a global language over wide swaths of the earth is something that has occurred post-1945.

Canada,America,Australia,New Zealand,India,Pakistan,Arabia,South Africa,Kenya,Rhodesia,etc etc were all speaking English before 1945.
Stop deluding your already deluded self.

[Bridie]

Credit has to go to Portugal for initiating the Age of Discovery, imo.

[BeerBaron]

What utter shit.

Australians,Candadians,New Zealenders,South africans,Britons,and the trillion people on the Indian sub continent and in Pakistan dont speak business American English,you ought to get out more......
not to mention the fact that in twenty years in the US people will be speaking some form of Spanish hispanic mix due to the thousands of chicano juicers pouring over the borders every day.

All you people with your anti British angst make me laugh.

No one here is actually anti british, you just think so highly of yourself and country it just seems that way by comparison.

Ya and since I am canadian I know how canadians sound, and its much closer to americans than brits.

[Aces High]

you just think so highly of yourself and country

We English have a lot to be proud of.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Unfortunately the sad truth is that wars actually spur on development by putting immense pressure on humans to perform, achieve and discover. Many of the technologies we use today derive from war-driven discoveries.

Conflict & competition inspires humans to perform, achieve and discover.

Wars, which are conflict & competition between governments, finally inspires humans in government run societies to perform, achieve and discover.

If you have a system whereby humans can compete without killing and blowing eachother up, ie the free market/capitalist economy, then they will perform, achieve and discover things with that inspiration.

[Loki]

If you have a system whereby humans can compete without killing and blowing eachother up, ie the free market/capitalist economy, then they will perform, achieve and discover things with that inspiration.

... has not endured the test of time yet. We will see. It could all go horribly wrong at some point. But I agree that the massive, rapid development throughout the world is due to that. Unprecedented increase in wealth, the rise of megacities and skyscrapers, etc all derive from the free market economy - even touching and transforming traditional communistic hubs like China. But THIS has not much to do with Europe or Europeans in particular, although it started off in European-populated countries. We can thank the system rather than the people.

[Psychonaut]

Ἑλλάς → Imperium Romanum → Imperium Romanum Sacrum → Britania → America

[Lucretius]

Hellas for the fundamental basis of living,Rome for law,order and latin philosophy,Italy for Renaissance,Iberia and the Uk for discoveries of new worlds and new people,France to be Greece of Modern Times.

[Troll's Puzzle]

True that, war tends to give the economy a boost too,

no it doesn't

I'm tired of seeing this cliched myth



Maybe Germany too, but I feel Germany held Europe & the west back 50 years or so. Who knows what we could have accomplished by now. Could have spent all that time & money colonizing space or something instead of killing each other.

'space technology' was only developed due to WWII anyway


Unfortunately the sad truth is that wars actually spur on development by putting immense pressure on humans to perform, achieve and discover. Many of the technologies we use today derive from war-driven discoveries.

I don't think it's 'sad' neccessarily, boys spend all their time playing wargames because deep down they love it, tribes and cultures always fixate on some aspect of their 'warrior' heritage when celebrating their identity (eg the mauris and their gay Haka 'dance', even though 'mauri warrior culture' ment bashing each other with clubs and eating men, women and children - human was the #1 'big game meat' in pre-euro NZ) - just euros have to go on about how 'sad' it all is - this is why we are being defeated



If you have a system whereby humans can compete without killing and blowing eachother up, ie the free market/capitalist economy, then they will perform, achieve and discover things with that inspiration.

but with a very different motivation/goal and different results, subsequently.

also you should say 'eg the free market...', not 'ie', unless you're an idealogue ;)

[ikki]

USA for the system wherein citizens have a value, its worthwile to educate them and that massmurdering civilians for fun isnt ok. Something the west is leaving behind these days.

[Joe McCarthy]

USA for the system wherein citizens have a value, its worthwile to educate them and that massmurdering civilians for fun isnt ok. Something the west is leaving behind these days.

The post-war international system led by the US has also all but abolished mass war and the idea that economic gain is to be had by conquest rather than mutually advantageous trade. Freedom from war - at least of the high scale variety - is a rare gift not often appreciated.

[Don]

What language are you all speaking.:cool:

End of thread.;)

Then you vote for USA (Sion).

...

LoL at the votes for Germany, France, Holland and others like these.

http://i.tfster.com/cache/www.stevenhumour.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/06/no-sense.jpg

[Loki]

LoL at the votes for Germany, France, Holland and others like these.


Laughable? I have already explained the huge influence France (and more specifically the Franks, who were basically a bunch of Dutchmen) had on the creation of modern Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Franks_expansion.gif/299px-Franks_expansion.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg/800px-Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg.png

[Don]

Laughable? I have already explained the huge influence France (and more specifically the Franks, who were basically a bunch of Dutchmen) had on the creation of modern Europe.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/23/Franks_expansion.gif/299px-Franks_expansion.gif

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/16/Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg/800px-Frankish_Empire_481_to_814-en.svg.png

Sorry, I don't buy.

Compared to Estonia probably, but in the contest there are other players like Rome, Spain and England. No chance for germany or france.

[Moustache]

What are the countries that planted seedlings that later grew into European-derivate cultures in North America and parts of Latin America, who are embassadors of Europe to non-European territories, whom non-European local elites mimic to varying degrees? Which languages do we speak outside local and national contexts?

Members of this inter-continental Atlantic Ejaculation Club: primarily England, also France, formerly Spain and Portugal.

[Tel Errant]

Greek philosophy and democracy, Roman law and Italian Renaissance, French Enlightment and Revolution, Spanish and Portuguese discoveries, British industrial Revolution, Pax Americana are the most important contributors to the rise and ascendancy of the West.
The Netherland and Germany were important but never decisive.

[Aces High]

British industrial Revolution, Pax Americana are the most important contributors to the rise and ascendancy of the West.


I know how hard that must hit you and how deep the hurt must be in admitting that as a Frenchman.
So i salute you and your honesty.....:drink4:

[Loki]

Sorry, I don't buy.

Compared to Estonia probably, but in the contest there are other players like Rome, Spain and England. No chance for germany or france.

Rome and England, yes. But Spain? :confused: Spain had a massive colonial empire, correct. That's a different topic and question altogether. To say that Spain had a greater influence in the rise of the Western world than France or Germany is ... blatantly dishonest or perhaps just ignorant due to your own nationalistic sentiments. Objectivity, where art thou?

[Lucretius]

every european country has done its best and its part,envy must be avoided. Neverthless who started it all were us.:D

[Tel Errant]

I know how hard that must hit you and how deep the hurt must be in admitting that as a Frenchman.
So i salute you and your honesty.....:drink4:

I've no problem admitting it, omitting them while mentioning the others would be too much blatant dishonesty.

[Loki]

every european country has done its best and its part,envy must be avoided. Neverthless who started it all were us.:D

No, the Greeks. ;)

[Lucretius]

No, the Greeks. ;)

as a latin epicurean I consider myself Greek.:D

[Don]

Rome and England, yes. But Spain? :confused: Spain had a massive colonial empire, correct. That's a different topic and question altogether. To say that Spain had a greater influence in the rise of the Western world than France or Germany is ... blatantly dishonest or perhaps just ignorant due to your own nationalistic sentiments. Objectivity, where art thou?

:p

I agree with you in these words. In the opposite view, to define the causes of these who understimate the decisive importance of Spain.

Is quite simplistic to grant the spaniards only the expansion of the Europeans by its discoveries/conquest and circumnavigations. Are great deeds, decisive (Do you imagine the japs or china arriving first than Spaniards to America...?)

Do you imagine what would be of Europe without its elder brother defending them twice (many more, but 2 of decisive importance) from Islam, in Reconquista and Lepanto?

Spain: vanguards of exploration/conquest and expansion of the Europe?
That is only one of the faces. Defenders of Europe. No one fits better in this tittle. No one healthy can ignore this tittle and its importance. But seems is quite recurrent this abnormality. Causes? :)

[Aces High]

I've no problem admiting it, omitting them while mentioning the others would be too much blatant dishonesty.

I know but as a Frenchman who has a lot of Gallic pride to deal with,admitting such a fact and conceding the field so to speak to not so much Americans but the arch enemy the English Saxons is not an easy thing for you.
As i say i admire your intellectual honesty.I would however never expect such honesty from a Spaniard.


( i know myself how hard it would be as a Saxon to conced defeat in any way...large or small to a Frenchman would be)

[Loki]

:p

I agree with you in these words. In the opposite view, to define the causes of these who understimate the decisive importance of Spain.



I never said I disregarded Spanish importance and influence, but I was retorting to your assertion that those who thought France and Germany were influential in European ascendancy were "laughable".

[Joe McCarthy]

Spain is a player but I'm unsure why it's ahead of Portugal (Spanish votes perhaps) as Spain's strongest claim is based on the Age of Discovery where it was beat to the punch by Portugal. I think Portugal's role is very undeservingly understated.

[Tel Errant]

I know but as a Frenchman who has a lot of Gallic pride to deal with,admitting such a fact and conceding the field so to speak to not so much Americans but the arch enemy the English Saxons is not an easy thing for you.
As i say i admire your intellectual honesty.I would however never expect such honesty from a Spaniard.


( i know myself how hard it would be as a Saxon to conced defeat in any way...large or small to a Frenchman would be)

What I personally think of the Anglosaxon societies and the importance of Britain and the USA for the rise and ascendency of the West are two different things.

There's no "conceding the field" in it. You're weird.

[Aces High]

What I personally think of the Anglosaxon societies and the importance of Britain and the USA for the Western world are two different things.

As i imagined.

[Lucretius]

Well, Queen Isabella gave the money and ships, Cristoforo Colombo did the rest.:cool:

[Tel Errant]

As i imagined.

What's your problem?

[Aces High]

What's your problem?

I cant get three down in the Telegraph crossword.

Clue.....Green amphibian...four letters.

[Logan]

I cant get three down in the Telegraph crossword.

Clue.....Green amphibian...four letters.


Tel Errant

[Tel Errant]

You're really a bunch of trolls. I didn't "concede the field" nor any defeats like you implied in your stupid allusion by ticking the US and UK.
It really feels like I'm back in You Tube.

[Logan]

You're just a bunch of trolls. I didn't "concede the field" nor any defeats like you implied in your stupid allusion by ticking the US and UK.
It really feels like I'm back in You Tube.

Have cup of tea Monsieur. It's not St. Crispen's day.

[Mercury]

Britain dominated due to all that Norman blood.:P

[Aces High]

[QUOTE=Tel Errant;463546I didn't "concede the field" nor any defeats like you implied [/QUOTE]

Ooooooooooooooh yes you did.

[Tel Errant]

Have cup of tea Monsieur. It's not St. Crispen's day.

Can you just grow up?

[poiuytrewq0987]

I don't think posters here are signifying Russia's achievements enough. Russia basically secured the European world in North Asia and to some extent, Alaska. It's because of Russia, China doesn't have access to resources-rich regions of Siberia and massive oil deposits all over North Asia. Can you imagine what the Chinese would do if they controlled North Asia? I don't think I want to.

[Tel Errant]

Ooooooooooooooh yes you did.

I didn't. What I should have done however is better understanding your trolling post before answering.

[Logan]

Britain dominated due to all that Norman blood.:P

WELSH LONGBOW

[Aces High]

ooooooooooooooooh no i didnt

ooooooooooooooooooooooh yes you did.

[Tel Errant]

ooooooooooooooooooooooh yes you did.

You're a British stereotype.

[Electronic God-Man]

I voted for UK, Netherlands and Spain. I should have also checked France. Basically, the Atlantic powers.

[Joe McCarthy]

Spain now leading Italy in the poll?

[guyinsf]

You can't just pinpoint to one country, there's really no way to judge accurately which one nation had contributed the most. However the major players of course are italy, greece, france, usa and UK.

[Kadu]

Germany and France are quite underrated in this poll, on the other hand Spain is quite overrated, but I can see why, Baruch Espinoza, Don and Iberia voted only for themselves.:D

[Moustache]

The question is biased towards economies with an emphasis on extensive development, expansionism, external market (colonies) and those who were lucky enough to be close to the Atlantic. Of course, this historical opportunity still had to be taken, by bold entrepreneurship and its ideological software - liberalism. Or, depending on viewpoint, the arrogance of a group being in a position of monopoly, i.e. "you guys are free to do whatever you want (it is I who will come out on top anyway)" - amidst economic anarchy and the mission of spreading civilisation, both at a terrible cost to life. This is the Anglo-French-Dutch model.

The Germans were relative late-comers, owing to distance from the Atlantic as well as political disunity, however they recognised and played well to the strengths of their society (cultured and highly skilled populace, eminent craftsmanship) to create an economic model highly successful in its own right, while managing to avoid following the AFD model in dogmatic fashion. The emphasis on highly specialised technological development, the large size of companies with concentrated capital from the get-go and aggressive marketing to enter into competition with already established AFD positions. Due to the lack of incubators (colonies), the geographic spread of German culture was limited to permeating parts of Central Europe. Of course, Goethe and Kant have European and universal value.

[Contra Mundum]

I voted USA, but after I reread the question, it's Greece. USA had the most influence on the past 100 years though.

You guys need to stop voting for more than one.

[Don]

Wrong

[Aces High]

You're a British stereotype.

ooooooooooooooooh no im not.

[Beorn]

The poll didn't have the option, but I would have gone for England.

[OneWolf]

Honestly,Western culture is neither homogeneous nor unchanging.It has evolved from other cultures over time.

Concepts of what is the "west" arose out of the legacies of the Greeks,Western Roman empire and the Eastern Roman Empire.What we think of western thought today is generally defined as Greco-Roman and Judeo-Christian culture.Throw in the ideals of the Renaissance and the Enlightenment,and you have the basis for what is Western culture and civilization today.

[rhiannon]

Greece, Italy, Scandinavia, Spain, England, France, Germany, and the Netherlands, Russia

In approximate order of past to present.

[BeerBaron]

Greece, Italy, Scandinavia, Spain, England, France, Germany, and the Netherlands, Russia

In approximate order of past to present.

How exactly was the soviet union responsible for the rise of the west, other than falling apart? Germany as well, I hardly think you can attribute anything to Germany post ww2 that wasn't done better by the US.

[Contra Mundum]

If had to rank in order..

1) Greece. Without them, Persians would have overrun Europe. And they gave birth to Western Civilization.

2) I would say Italy(Rome). A great empire that unified much of Europe and the entire Mediterranean. Incredible civil engineering projects. After the collapse of Rome, Italians made great contributions to science, art, architecture, religion and exploration.

3) It's really difficult to pick one country, so how about I break the rule a bit and say the Germanic peoples. They dominated Europe after the collapse of Rome. Creating the Frankish Kingdom and Holy Roman Empire. German tribes settled in Italy, Spain, gave birth to France, Austria, Prussia, Germany and England. From the Anglo-Saxons to the Franks. They brought Europe from the depths of the Dark Ages to the Age of Enlightenment and to the Industrial Revolution with Germany, Britain, USA and France being the dominate world powers by 1900. Virtually all of America's Founding Fathers had Germanic blood.

[Joe McCarthy]

How exactly was the soviet union responsible for the rise of the west, other than falling apart? Germany as well, I hardly think you can attribute anything to Germany post ww2 that wasn't done better by the US.

In a place where Russophilia is strong Russia is doing poorly - and for good reason. The best argument we've seen for them is that they've acted as a blocking agent in keeping China from taking Siberia, which is to say they've done little to aid Western ascendancy but have merely left a large patch of the world's surface lying barren century after century. Spain gets even lower marks though for doing nothing with what is the US Southwest. It took the US to develop it. Germany I think is best characterized as a poor man's US. A country that is much older yet has arrived later on the global scene, and whose best accomplishments resemble technological mimickry of the US for the most part.

[BeerBaron]

In a place where Russophilia is strong Russia is doing poorly - and for good reason. The best argument we've seen for them is that they've acted as a blocking agent in keeping China from taking Siberia, which is to say they've done little to aid Western ascendancy but have merely left a large patch of the world's surface lying barren century after century. Spain gets even lower marks though for doing nothing with what is the US Southwest. It took the US to develop it. Germany I think is best characterized as a poor man's US. A country that is much older yet has arrived later on the global scene, and whose best accomplishments resemble technological mimickry of the US for the most part.

I can understand Germany during and before ww2 because of their advancements in jet engines and rocket technology, each got split up between usa and ussr, but overall I think Germany hurt the west, excluding technological advancements. But she listed them in what she says is chronological order, making even less sense. I'm just gonna chalk it up to, she doesn't know what she's talking about.

[rhiannon]

How exactly was the soviet union responsible for the rise of the west, other than falling apart? Germany as well, I hardly think you can attribute anything to Germany post ww2 that wasn't done better by the US.

I am taking a broad perspective here. My answers are based on historical events going back to ancient Greece.

I mention Russia for their impact on space travel and the fact the US, in part, became even more motivated to kick up the pace when we realized Russia was gaining ground. Not to mention, Russia is part of Europe (and Asia) and should therefore be included. Moreover, I spent my entire childhood and adolescence as a child of the cold war. Russia was THE only other Superpower outside the US for a very long time.

Hope that helped:)

[Murphy]

Rome and Spain.

[poiuytrewq0987]

In a place where Russophilia is strong Russia is doing poorly - and for good reason. The best argument we've seen for them is that they've acted as a blocking agent in keeping China from taking Siberia, which is to say they've done little to aid Western ascendancy but have merely left a large patch of the world's surface lying barren century after century. Spain gets even lower marks though for doing nothing with what is the US Southwest. It took the US to develop it. Germany I think is best characterized as a poor man's US. A country that is much older yet has arrived later on the global scene, and whose best accomplishments resemble technological mimickry of the US for the most part.

Barren? Have you even visited any of Siberian cities? I don't think so. You're just speaking out of sheer ignorance. Russia went through a lot in the 90s and it's only making a comeback militarily and economically. That is nonetheless a good thing for the Western world as a strong Russia can easily deflect Chinese expansionism into North Asia and inevitably, Europe. A strong Russia also will weaken American influence in Europe and that is something I am completely fine with, maybe not you though. Just go to your neighborhood Walmart and get some Ben and Jerry's, you'll feel better.

Yekaterinburg:

http://www.ekaterinburg.tv/images/Maps/map_Russia.gif

http://www.europeguide.tk/wp-content/uploads/Yekaterinburg-map-10.jpg

Novosibirsk:

http://www.eurasianmissions.org/downloads/video/thumbs/novosibirsk_map.gif

http://pix.academ.org/img/2010/01/12/6e6eec6664baefdd172c1cdd2b908d76.jpg


Irkutsk:

http://www.ekaterinburg.tv/images/Maps/map_Russia.gif

http://img-fotki.yandex.ru/get/5402/gelionsk.ac/0_41599_b79ee269_orig

Vladivostok:

http://images.wikia.com/cities/images/0/08/Vladivostok_Image.jpg

[Joe McCarthy]

Siberia has less population than California, but the point I'm making is that Russia's efforts to develop the land and its resources have been pathetic. If Americans or British controlled it it'd be a different story. In fact, Germany too. There is a reason why Hitler compared Russians to American Indians. They were a backward people letting their land stand idle.