Ask anything Slovenija related

[Ülev]

Lets have this topic about Slovenian history, culture, language, traditions... where forum users are free to ask Alenka and other (future) Slovenian users about that.
Please no trolling.

[TheMaestro]

Wierdest Slavic language

[Bellbeaking]

Favorite Slovenian foods?

In what ways have Slovenia changed in the last 20 years?

Do you think western Liberalism will take hold in Slovenia?

[Satem]

What is more popular in Slovenia - vine or beer?

[Ülev]

Wierdest Slavic language

I actually think, that Slovenian is the finest of all Slavic languages, and watch "Dnevnik Slovencev v Italiji" right now
https://4d.rtvslo.si/zivo/tvs3

[TheMaestro]

I actually think, that Slovenian is the finest of all Slavic languages, and watch "Dnevnik Slovencev v Italiji" right now
https://4d.rtvslo.si/zivo/tvs3

For me its like Alien, I can recognize any Slavic language in 5secs, but this Slovenian was for me once a nut. I was at airport there were 5 guys and they were speaking Slovenian, I couldnt know, it took me like 2 mins to find out it was a Slavic language.

[щрбл]

Do you have a suggestion for a 3-days hiking trail in Slovenija?

:rolleyes:

[Roy]

Do Slovenians have many nasty politicians or obnoxious political parties? (here PiS is for me the most loathsome). Or some awful affairs in recent years?

[Ülev]

What is more popular in Slovenia - vine or beer?

Pivo! (Beer!)


VISOKE ŠTEVILKE: Slovenec v letu spije 87 litrov piva, 48,4 litra vina in 2,1 litra žganja

Slovenes drink 87 liters of beer, 48.4 liters of wine and 2.1 liters of brandy a year
https://www.regionalobala.si/novica/visoke-stevilke-slovenec-v-letu-spije-87-litrov-piva-484-litra-vina-in-21-litra-zganja

[Roy]

For me its like Alien, I can recognize any Slavic language in 5secs, but this Slovenian was for me once a nut. I was at airport there were 5 guys and they were speaking Slovenian, I couldnt know, it took me like 2 mins to find out it was a Slavic language.

The same here. I've met some Slovenian family at a railway station in Poland. My first thought was ... why do they speak so weirdly? It was only after 5 minutes and after having eliminated other options that I came to the conclusion that it had to be Slovenian. Albeit it cannot be dismissed that it was some dialect of it.

[Ülev]

The same here. I've met some Slovenian family at a railway station in Poland. My first thought was ... why do they speak so weirdly? It was only after 5 minutes and after having eliminated other options that I came to the conclusion that it had to be Slovenian. Albeit it cannot be dismissed that it was some dialect of it.

:scratch:

I think Polish and Slovenian is very similar

zachód/zahod - west, not eastern "zapad" (from CR to Russia)
when a person from Liberec goes to zachod, he goes to toilet
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=cs&tl=en&text=z%C3%A1chod

[TheMaestro]

:scratch:

I think Polish and Slovenian is very similar

zachód/zahod - west, not eastern "zapad" (from CR to Russia)
when a person from Liberec goes to zachod, he goes to toilet
https://translate.google.com/#view=home&op=translate&sl=cs&tl=en&text=z%C3%A1chod

lul, you can find similar words but the two languages are far away from each other, do you live in the US?
And why are you comparing Czech with Polish, when we are talking about Slovenian.

[TheMaestro]

The same here. I've met some Slovenian family at a railway station in Poland. My first thought was ... why do they speak so weirdly? It was only after 5 minutes and after having eliminated other options that I came to the conclusion that it had to be Slovenian. Albeit it cannot be dismissed that it was some dialect of it.

At first I thought it was some Baltic language, since those are for me most alien in Europe, but time to time I heard those Slavic words so it could be only Slovenian.

[Alenka]

The same here. I've met some Slovenian family at a railway station in Poland. My first thought was ... why do they speak so weirdly? It was only after 5 minutes and after having eliminated other options that I came to the conclusion that it had to be Slovenian. Albeit it cannot be dismissed that it was some dialect of it.

At first I thought it was some Baltic language, since those are for me most alien in Europe, but time to time I heard those Slavic words so it could be only Slovenian.
What's so weird about it? How does it sound like to you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXvHzQtAA5c

[Ülev]

other word - gozd - forest, South Slavs will use šuma, North-East las/les
but you have a places like Gózd or Gozdnica here in Poland :rolleyes: not Leśnica, and this little town lies in the middle of the forests

[TheMaestro]

What's so weird about it? How does it sound like to you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXvHzQtAA5c

Like its trying to speak Serbian but its retarted :D

[Ülev]

you just have/use poor slavic vocabulary....
word = slovo-słowo-Slovianie....
Slava, Sława, pan-slavism etc.

but Slovenian beseda - word is still in use: "biesiadowali", "беседовали" and you even do not realize its roots - they talked words - from beseda, this Slovenian beseda

[Roy]

What's so weird about it? How does it sound like to you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXvHzQtAA5c

This is not as weird except that I barely understand anything out of it. :coffee: But in a real life situation it can come across as weird, especially in a crowd in Poland, you know :)

Some of it above is a little bit Italian-like but other times oddly Russian-like actually except for familiar-ish words and these constant -iti, - eti, -ov etc. whereas in Polish it would be ici (ići pronounced), -ieci, -ści etc

But flat-out unintelligible with Polish.

[Glauk]

Lets have this topic about Slovenian history, culture, language, traditions... where forum users are free to ask Alenka and other (future) Slovenian users about that.
Please no trolling.

Čak ti si slovenc al švab?

[Roy]

Čak ti si slovenc al švab?

To jest Polak co lubi udawanie. :D

[Ülev]

Čak ti si slovenc al švab?


To jest Polak co lubi udawanie. :D

I have some German ancestry :)
(a nightmare for some polish member here :rolleyes:)

[oszkar07]

1}what are 2 most popular meals Slovenians eat.

2} do Slovenians feel closer to Croatians , Austrians or Italians.

3} what nations do slovenians cluster with genetically in dna testing.

[dududud]

I2 haplogroup?

[Dunai]

I don't understand this exotic sounding discussion about Slovenian. To my ear it's instantly recognizable as Slavic, and if I have to categorize it by sound, then I would say a cross between Serbo-Croatian and Czech. Come on guys, Slavic languages are so easy to recognize.

My question is how come Slovenians are so talented in team sports, given what a small country they are?

[noricum]

Do you have a suggestion for a 3-days hiking trail in Slovenija?

:rolleyes:

https://www.summitpost.org/7-triglav-lakes-valley-route/156936

A nice two days tour. I would start climbing mount Triglav and then follow the seven lakes tour down to Bohinsko Jezero.

[Ülev]

The east of Slovenia is really neglected compared to the west (in tourism sense), so help Eastern part of the country and visit Murska Sobota, Lendava & co


"Zahodna Slovenija ima visoko prekrvavitiev s turističnimi tokovi. In je bolj vitalna in zdrava turistična regija kot vzhodna. Teh turističnih tokov je v Vzhodni Sloveniji zelo malo oz. skoraj nič. Naj opišem strateški turistični tok ‒ turisti, ki prihajajo iz Avstrije ali iz severne Italije, obiščejo dolino Soče, Bled, Bohinj, Ljubljano, ustavijo se v Postojnski jami, gredo do Obale in potem nadaljujejo svojo pot proti Hrvaški. To je tipičen strateški tok v Zahodni Sloveniji. Močnejši in bolj strateški tok je, več turistov se v tem prostoru giblje. Na vzhodu je tega bistveno manj kot na zahodu. Kar pomeni, da je hkrati s povpraševanjem povezana tudi razvitost ponudbe," razlaga Ljubica Kneževič Cvelbar z Ekonomske fakultete.
translation: click (https://translate.google.de/#view=home&op=translate&sl=sl&tl=en&text=Zahodna%20Slovenija%20ima%20visoko%20prekrvav itiev%20s%20turisti%C4%8Dnimi%20tokovi.%20In%20je% 20bolj%20vitalna%20in%20zdrava%20turisti%C4%8Dna%2 0regija%20kot%20vzhodna.%20Teh%20turisti%C4%8Dnih% 20tokov%20je%20v%20Vzhodni%20Sloveniji%20zelo%20ma lo%20oz.%20skoraj%20ni%C4%8D.%20Naj%20opi%C5%A1em% 20strate%C5%A1ki%20turisti%C4%8Dni%20tok%20%E2%80% 92%20turisti%2C%20ki%20prihajajo%20iz%20Avstrije%2 0ali%20iz%20severne%20Italije%2C%20obi%C5%A1%C4%8D ejo%20dolino%20So%C4%8De%2C%20Bled%2C%20Bohinj%2C% 20Ljubljano%2C%20ustavijo%20se%20v%20Postojnski%20 jami%2C%20gredo%20do%20Obale%20in%20potem%20nadalj ujejo%20svojo%20pot%20proti%20Hrva%C5%A1ki.%20To%2 0je%20tipi%C4%8Den%20strate%C5%A1ki%20tok%20v%20Za hodni%20Sloveniji.%20Mo%C4%8Dnej%C5%A1i%20in%20bol j%20strate%C5%A1ki%20tok%20je%2C%20ve%C4%8D%20turi stov%20se%20v%20tem%20prostoru%20giblje.%20Na%20vz hodu%20je%20tega%20bistveno%20manj%20kot%20na%20za hodu.%20Kar%20pomeni%2C%20da%20je%20hkrati%20s%20p ovpra%C5%A1evanjem%20povezana%20tudi%20razvitost%2 0ponudbe%2C%22%20razlaga%20Ljubica%20Kne%C5%BEevi% C4%8D%20Cvelbar%20z%20Ekonomske%20fakultete.)

https://www.rtvslo.si/tureavanture/novice/je-vzhod-slovenije-res-zapostavljen-v-primerjavi-z-zahodom/495467

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

https://www.summitpost.org/7-triglav-lakes-valley-route/156936

A nice two days tour. I would start climbing mount Triglav and then follow the seven lakes tour down to Bohinsko Jezero.

Triglav is dangerous even for experienced mountainneers. It's totally worth of climb but beginners should avoid it imo.

[Ülev]

I created this topic to ask, not to answer, so

Is Slovenia really zelena dežela (green country)?


https://youtu.be/Q9MlmQTBMUg

[Alenka]

Is Slovenia really zelena dežela (green country)?

It is quite green in some sense:
"Looking at the forest area as a proportion of a country's total land area, Finland (71% of total land area) and Sweden (67%) are the most heavily forested countries, followed by Slovenia (64%), Estonia (58%) and Latvia (56%), while the Netherlands (8%), Malta (11%) and Denmark (16%) are the least wooded countries."
https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/products-eurostat-news/-/EDN-20180321-1

[Rumata]

Some of it above is a little bit Italian-like but other times oddly Russian-like actually except for familiar-ish words and these constant -iti, - eti, -ov etc. whereas in Polish it would be ici (ići pronounced), -ieci, -ści etc

Slovenian phonetics are close to Russian ones. No joke.

[Glauk]

1}what are 2 most popular meals Slovenians eat.

2} do Slovenians feel closer to Croatians , Austrians or Italians.

3} what nations do slovenians cluster with genetically in dna testing.

Žganci, potica, kranjska, klobasa, slivovi cmoki

It depends wich Slovenians, those in border with italy are similar to italians, it depends on the region

The third one I don’t know

[Moje ime]

3} what nations do slovenians cluster with genetically in dna testing.

I'm not sure but probably are closest with north Croats, Hungarians, Czech etc.

[noricum]

Triglav is dangerous even for experienced mountainneers. It's totally worth of climb but beginners should avoid it imo.

One must not be afaid of height and go slow to his own pace, then any moderately fit person can do it imo. When I was there 20 years ago I saw some people dragging their little children up there and others using a plastic bag for a rucksack. This day the helicopter came in twice to lift up injured hikers, so it's definately not without dangers.

[Ülev]

1}what are 2 most popular meals Slovenians eat.

2} do Slovenians feel closer to Croatians , Austrians or Italians.

3} what nations do slovenians cluster with genetically in dna testing.


I'm not sure but probably are closest with north Croats, Hungarians, Czech etc.

no, others can be close to Slovenes, only this direction :p

[Jana]

Do Slovenians feel more southern or western Slavic ?

[Satem]

How Slovenian prices look comparing to prices in neighbouring countries?

[Glauk]

Do Slovenians feel more southern or western Slavic ?

I don’t know maybe western because slovenian culture has nothing to do with balkan

[Glauk]

How Slovenian prices look comparing to prices in neighbouring countries?


Cheaper then italy and austria, the same as croatia and hungary

[Ford]

What's so weird about it? How does it sound like to you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXvHzQtAA5c

I think it sounds adorable lol


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ClEmENo-6Ag

[Jana]

I don’t know maybe western because slovenian culture has nothing to do with balkan

South Slavs should not be synonym with Balkan though. I feel very mediterranean culturally (with mitteleuropean and balkanic touches here and there), and very southern Slavic at the same time. No wonder when I live in middle of southern sea!

[Mingle]

I don’t know maybe western because slovenian culture has nothing to do with balkan

I don't see Slovenia as Balkan, but I've seen many Slovenes online identify as Balkan (I think the user Alenka also does). On another site, I asked a Slovene why so many of them online identify as Balkan even though it has such a negative connotation. He said that although many Slovenes don't associate with the Balkans due to the negative attributes it has, there are some that like to associate with the Balkans cause of some of the positive attributes it has (Balkan spirit, Balkan flair, food, outgoing, liveliness, etc). I think most would probably see themselves as South Slavic since its a purely linguistic category (unlike Balkan or Central European) but let's wait for Slovenes to answer.

[Glauk]

South Slavs should not be synonym with Balkan though. I feel very mediterranean culturally (with mitteleuropean and balkanic touches here and there), and very southern Slavic at the same time. No wonder when I live in middle of southern sea!

Maybe coastal croats are Mediterranean because of the venetian influence, but other S.S. are balkan :/
It’s the same with the region of Primorska and Goriska(Slovenija), they also have Mediterranean culture, but if you compare average slovenian with an average S.S the differ a lot, behavior, cuisine and mentality

[Jana]

I don't see Slovenia as Balkan, but I've seen many Slovenes online identify as Balkan (I think the user Alenka also does). On another site, I asked a Slovene why so many of them online identify as Balkan even though it has such a negative connotation. He said that although many Slovenes don't associate with the Balkans due to the negative attributes it has, there are some that like to associate with the Balkans cause of some of the positive attributes it has (Balkan spirit, Balkan flair, food, outgoing, liveliness, etc). I think most would probably see themselves as South Slavic since its a purely linguistic category (unlike Balkan or Central European) but let's wait for Slovenes to answer.

But, some linguists have opinion Slovene language is kind of an isolate between western and southern Slavic. Or mostly southern slavic with some arhaic western slavic features.

I was curious to ask because I wonder weather Slovenes feel greater similarity and closeness with Czechs or Slovaks or with Croats or Serbs, for example (any west or south slav group can apply)

[Glauk]

I don't see Slovenia as Balkan, but I've seen many Slovenes online identify as Balkan (I think the user Alenka also does). On another site, I asked a Slovene why so many of them online identify as Balkan even though it has such a negative connotation. He said that although many Slovenes don't associate with the Balkans due to the negative attributes it has, there are some that like to associate with the Balkans cause of some of the positive attributes it has (Balkan spirit, Balkan flair, food, outgoing, liveliness, etc). I think most would probably see themselves as South Slavic since its a purely linguistic category (unlike Balkan or Central European) but let's wait for Slovenes to answer.

Maybe some identify with balkan because of the union with Jugoslavija but believe me the are not balkan i know them very well,I’m 3 generation of kosovo albanians in slovenia, 50% of my friends are slovenians and my last ex girlfriend was one

[Mingle]

But, some linguists have opinion Slovene language is kind of an isolate between western and southern Slavic. Or moatly southern slavic with some arhaic western slavic features.

Slovene is definitely a South Slavic language. This topic was brought up a few months ago by someone and when I looked into it, it seemed like it was only one person that called it a West Slavic language based off of one ancient manuscript. I can't find the link anymore but if I can then I'll post it here. Slovenian is part of the same dialect continuum as Kaykavian (Slovenian is basically a standardized version of western Kaykavian) and since Croatian Kaykavian is considered South Slavic, I don't see why Slovenian wouldn't. Also, the Pannonian Slavs were considered to speak South Slavic and they're closer to West Slavs in geography.

I also recall reading before that Slovene is a South Slavic language but with some archaic Slavic features it shares with West Slavic, but they also lost an archaic feature (aorist tense to express the past). I don't think there are any modern linguists that dispute Slovene as a South Slavic language (maybe one but IDK) anyways.

-

Here is a paper you may be interested in that compares South Slavic and West Slavic languages: https://link.springer.com/article/10.1007/s11185-015-9150-9

According to Slovene-speakers (based on the paper above), they understand these languages (in their written form) at the following percentages:

• Croatian - 80.85%
• Bulgarian - 65.63%
• Czech - 56.42%
• Slovak - 56.78%
• Polish 47.39%

They did this for all languages (not only Slovene) and came up with this graph (the closer the dot the easier the written language is to understand):

https://media.springernature.com/original/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1007%2Fs11185-015-9150-9/MediaObjects/11185_2015_9150_Fig3_HTML.gif

-

Same as above but for the spoken form (from the POV of Slovene-speakers again):

• Croatian - 82.26%
• Bulgarian - 59.32%
• Czech - 51.93%
• Slovak - 56.27%
• Polish - 41.87%

Graph for the results above:

https://media.springernature.com/original/springer-static/image/art%3A10.1007%2Fs11185-015-9150-9/MediaObjects/11185_2015_9150_Fig5_HTML.gif


I was curious to ask because I wonder weather Slovenes feel similarity and closeness with Czechs or Slovaks more than with Croats or Serbs, for example.

Okay.

[coolfrenchguy]

What's so weird about it? How does it sound like to you guys?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VXvHzQtAA5c

almost understanable for me ,seems having a strong latin/italian influence in the flow ,the way of the R are roll up,the way how it's cut seems not completly difficult to learn phonically,certainly the most latinised of the meridional slavonic languages ,it's funny how siddharta made sounding slovenian almost "spanish/italian-like" with b-mashina a cover of a laibach track,and a last layer for the road if you like laibach watch the full live show,they surprised me,i have seen them a far time ago something like 1992/1993
i like the musicality of the tongue,it's an harmonic tongue

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TipM0RqX0QM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zN2E_ovp6IQ&feature=player_embedded_uturn: thumb001:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uozqaUmISVI;)


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pl1nd_Lzwyc

sound a bit a weak should been re-encoded and re-boosted with ocean audio or audacity but good quality,maybe i will do it because it's need to be re-set correctly


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9iLuMvMSqOs

[Satem]

What Slovenians think about Melania Trump?

[Roy]

Žganci, potica, kranjska, klobasa, slivovi cmoki

It depends wich Slovenians, those in border with italy are similar to italians, it depends on the region

The third one I don’t know

Slivovi cmoki

https://images.24ur.com/media/images/953x459/Aug2015/61647446.jpg?v=ba85

It seems like a very similar dish to Polish ...

Knedle ze śliwkami

https://kulinarneprzeboje.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DSC_0793-660x993.jpg

[Glauk]

Slivovi cmoki

https://images.24ur.com/media/images/953x459/Aug2015/61647446.jpg?v=ba85

It seems like a very similar dish to Polish ...

Knedle ze śliwkami

https://kulinarneprzeboje.pl/wp-content/uploads/2018/08/DSC_0793-660x993.jpg


I loveee theeem

[Mikula]

other word - gozd - forest, South Slavs will use šuma, North-East las/les
but you have a places like Gózd or Gozdnica here in Poland :rolleyes: not Leśnica, and this little town lies in the middle of the forests

In Czech we say LES but it exists also archic word HVOZD.
We dont use term ŠUMA but mountains Bohemian Forest is called ŠUMAVA in Czech :)

[Joso]

Which is most common hablogroup in Slovenia?

[Satem]

Are there some stereotypes about Slovenians?

[Hithaeglir]

I'm planning to go there in Mid-November, Ljubljana specifically, any suggestions in the city to visit most, any places around the capital that are worth seeing. Things to avoid. But i assume it's a small little place, you are able to see a lot in a few hours :)

[щрбл]

One must not be afaid of height and go slow to his own pace, then any moderately fit person can do it imo. When I was there 20 years ago I saw some people dragging their little children up there and others using a plastic bag for a rucksack. This day the helicopter came in twice to lift up injured hikers, so it's definately not without dangers.


Triglav is dangerous even for experienced mountainneers. It's totally worth of climb but beginners should avoid it imo.


https://www.summitpost.org/7-triglav-lakes-valley-route/156936

A nice two days tour. I would start climbing mount Triglav and then follow the seven lakes tour down to Bohinsko Jezero.

It looks pretty nice. I'm not a beginner though. There are even strings, made of metal, installed at some places, that I could see on the pictures on internet. I suppose, as long as you're not completely exhausted at the top and as long as the crossing is not crowded so that people coming your direction push you off the cliff, it should be fine.

:rolleyes:

[Satem]

Bump

Is handball popular in Slovenia?

[Yamnaya]

Is slovenia safe to visit? I once met a slovenian and he told me he was tired of muslim migrants, something i didnt expect from such a small country as slovenia, to be also having muslim issues.

[Mikula]

Are there some stereotypes about Slovenians?

Watch 0:32 - 1:14 for Slovenes / Croats,next are stereoypes about another nations of formr Yugoslavia - but not in English, sorry :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEvZUL1d-Zk

[Hrvoje Vukčić Hrvatinić]

Which is most common hablogroup in Slovenia?

R1a


Bump

Is handball popular in Slovenia?

Pretty much


Is slovenia safe to visit? I once met a slovenian and he told me he was tired of muslim migrants, something i didnt expect from such a small country as slovenia, to be also having muslim issues.

wut? It's totally safe m8

[Ülev]

Kdo bo osebnost leta 2019?
(bump)

[Faklon]

Are types like Slavoj Zizek common? (I mean as a personality, not anthrotardically)

Is it true that in one side of Ljubljanica women get beaten, raped and like it but on the other side they get beaten, raped and they don't like it?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eQmB7XPJHq0

Is Romanesque architecture like this in Koper generally common?

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/70/Koperlandmarks.jpg

[Ülev]

dobro, bump

[Roy]

Do Slovenes like Pierogi?

[Jankec]

Do Slovenes like Pierogi?

I would say that Štrukli are somewhat similar to Polish Pierogi. They are eaten cooked or baked, usually filled with cheese, but can contain other fillings. They can be sweet or savory. Štrukli are also cross-border dish, because they are also prepared in northwestern Croatia.

[ConsumeDoge]

The reason they would associate with the Balkans is because they are highly likely immigrants or kids of immigrants. After all this country is comprised of only about two thirds of real Slovenians. Additionally, this is why Balkan music and cuisine became more popular in the more recent decades.

[Zohor]

Do Slovenians really like schlager music like these? Is it popular in a positive or negative way like for example manele in Romania or turbofolk in Serbia(which I guess are well known with quite negative opinion about it)?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2j_wxB5I_I


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zlf-wtByUdg

And apparently this one is #1 trending music in Slovenia:picard1:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j5VGekDbCb0

After research I made on YT I counted way too many schlager groups with high number of views. Do you really find it fire?
You're more Austrian than Austrians with this one :picard2:

[Sorab12]

I would say that Štrukli are somewhat similar to Polish Pierogi. They are eaten cooked or baked, usually filled with cheese, but can contain other fillings. They can be sweet or savory. Štrukli are also cross-border dish, because they are also prepared in northwestern Croatia.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5jpThG5pExU&t=1s
from 50min

[MCMXCV]

I wasn’t aware this thread even existed! Feel free to enquire about anything.

[Scarface F]

I wasn’t aware this thread even existed! Feel free to enquire about anything.

What are regional stereotypes (mentality and behaviour) between SLO regions?
What is opinion about Hungary?
Are you proud Slavs?

and you can answer questions from prev pages too :p

[MCMXCV]

Do Slovenians really like schlager music like these? Is it popular in a positive or negative way like for example manele in Romania or turbofolk in Serbia(which I guess are well known with quite negative opinion about it)?

After research I made on YT I counted way too many schlager groups with high number of views. Do you really find it fire?
You're more Austrian than Austrians with this one :picard2:

This specific type of music may be popular at village parties, where people get really drunk or just like to party hard. However, many strongly dislike it and view it as cheap.

Otherwise, the more serious, somewhat related genre is the Oberkrainer music (narodnozabavna glasba) by authors such as Slavko Avsenik and Lojze Slak. It’s considered our national music, in a way.

[Roy]

I would say that Štrukli are somewhat similar to Polish Pierogi. They are eaten cooked or baked, usually filled with cheese, but can contain other fillings. They can be sweet or savory. Štrukli are also cross-border dish, because they are also prepared in northwestern Croatia.

Somehow I've never eaten any Štrukli despite spending a lot of months of my life in Slovenia. Next time when I'm there I will make sure to try.

[Roy]

This specific type of music may be popular at village parties, where people get really drunk or just like to party hard. However, many strongly dislike it and view it as cheap.

Otherwise, the more serious, somewhat related genre is the Oberkrainer music (narodnozabavna glasba) by authors such as Slavko Avsenik and Lojze Slak. It’s considered our national music, in a way.


Slovenian, German or Polish ... schlager (yes it is present here but only moderately popular in one region - Silesia probably due to Germans) is bad, but it's still better on average than Polish disco polo is. And manele, turbofolk from the actual Balkans is like Mozart & Chopin in one compared to Polish ''party music'' for people with no taste in music developed that is disco polo.

I cannot really enjoy Central European schlager or anything adjacent to it save for very rare occasions but manele & turbofolk has quite a lot of music that I find amusing actually instead of just tacky and obnoxious.

Polish disco polo in 99.9% sucks ass.

[MCMXCV]

What are regional stereotypes (mentality and behaviour) between SLO regions?

If I go from west towards east:

Stereotypically, people from:
– the Littoral (1) are considered positive, temperamental, outgoing and prone to taking it easy;
– Upper Carniola (2a) are stingy (this is the most widespread stereotype of them all), frugal and hardworking;
– Lower Carniola (2c) are lazy and drunkards;
– the latter is true even more for Styrians (4) in addition to being stupid and, consequently, funny (the stupid character in sitcoms always speaks with some Styrian accent), prone to brawling, partying and being loud, sometimes also primitive;
– Transmurania/Prekmurje (5) are considered simple and very good people, honest;
– Carinthia (3) are backward (due to being isolated from the rest of the country, but not much about them);
– the capital of Ljubljana are snobs, cold, arrogant, queer.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b3/Borders_of_the_Historical_Habsburgian_Lands_in_the _Republic_of_Slovenia.svg/320px-Borders_of_the_Historical_Habsburgian_Lands_in_the _Republic_of_Slovenia.svg.png

[MCMXCV]

What is opinion about Hungary?

In general, Hungary is the neighbouring country about which the average Slovene knows the least. The language is perceived as gibberish. We share the shortest border with them, not much has been going on between the countries — the least of all the neighbours — and, thus, Hungary isn’t talked about a lot. This somewhat changed with Orbán, who made Hungary and its affairs a more prominent topic. Otherwise, not much is taught about Hungary, except that we used to be together in the Habsburg Empire, and that during WWII, Transmurania had been annexed by them.

Prekmurje Slovenes — naturally — have a closer relationship with Hungary. I’m not sure what is their opinion, but the Hungarian State has been investing in the region (e.g. football stadiums and football academy etc.), and everyone benefits from this, not only the indigenous Hungarian minority. Albeit, some worry there’s an agenda behind this…

[MCMXCV]

Are you proud Slavs?

This isn’t an easy question to answer. There’s a variety of people.

Slovenes who are proud to be Slovenes don’t necessarily think a lot about being part of a larger Slavic family. I dare say this is how the majority feels. Some are reserved due to the history with Yugoslavia (as a greater Serbia), some see Russia as a threat that wants to make all Slavs Russians. Of course, there are those who are diametrically opposed to this: they want us to reconnect with other South Slavs, or they dream about a greater pan-Slavic realm. What all these people have in common is that they don’t deny the Slavness of Slovenes.

Next, there are two groups of people of whose existence I’m aware:

First, there are those who believe that we are Slavicised Germans. This view is somewhat more widespread among certain groups that are enthused about National Socialism, but not all of them believe this, and this belief is not exclusive only to them.

The second group is more obscure; however, some prominent figures are in support of it: it represents those who believe the Venetic theory (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Venetic_theory) of proto-Slovenes’ origin.

To conclude, there isn’t a lot of emphasising in everyday life that we are Slavs; nonetheless, the vast majority of people won’t deny it or have any issues talking about it. I have the impression that most Slovenes don’t feel or think about a connection with other Slavs on this higher level. Slovenia alone is pretty fragmented (dialectically, different customs across regions etc.), and, methinks, this results in the inability to have a strong awareness and feeling of belonging to a greater Slavic family.

[Scarface F]

what Slovenian prodcuts you take most pride in for their quality and style?

What would you say are 3 most common phenotypes among ethnic Slovenes?

How much Slovene you consider guys like Luka Dončić or Benjamin Šesko?

Ever been to ski jumping competition as spectator? We wanted to go on Planica last year but didn't. I hope to see it someday.

Bled of Bohinj, what do you prefer? I know my preference, but curious what you think.

Why is green national color of Slovenia despite you don't have it on flag?

How do you feel about Czechs and Slovaks and how much similar/different to Slovenes/Slovenia they are in your opinion?

[MCMXCV]

How do you feel about Czechs and Slovaks and how much similar/different to Slovenes/Slovenia they are in your opinion?

The older generations even now mostly associate them with the time when Czechs and Slovaks were finally allowed to travel to the seaside in Yugoslavia. I’m pretty sure you know what I mean. As they were isolated behind the Iron Curtain and poorer, when they came here, they stood out with their cars overpacked with luggage, different clothing style than ours, not used to our standard, relative openness to the West compared to Czechoslovakia etc. There is even a phrase here that someone or something is Czech-like, which has a negative connotation, meaning it’s eccentric and weird, almost alien-like.

However, today this perception is, fortunately, changing. Not only because Czech and Slovaks, naturally, aren’t the same as they were during the communist times, but also due to younger people being more educated about our past and common history within the Habsburg empire, realising we aren’t that foreign to each other. Especially with the Czechs with whom we were together in the Austrian half of the common state. Some Czechs living in our main urban centres wasn’t uncommon by the end of the nineteenth century, and certain Slovenes also made a significant impact (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jože_Plečnik#Work_on_Prague_Castle) in Czechia. Much of our vocabulary for new technical terminology was either borrowed from Czech or inspired us to create Slovene equivalents, and our linguists and artists were in constant contact.

Language-wise, there are theories that Slovene originated from the north, from the West Slavic branch, and later got separated from it by the expanding Bavarians and Hungarians, only to get reconnected to fellows Slavs in the south(east) who arrived later. And this intermingling left us with today’s Slovene language, which is now considered South Slavic, despite still sharing certain features with now geographically distant Slovak and Czech. Why the R1a is the most frequent haplogroup here could additionally confirm this path.

I believe we may’ve been more similar in the past. Almost seventy years in a Balkan polity has had its impact, especially the longer and more recent communist period. Our cities, though, still share the same Central European feel, which shows we belong to the same cultural environment within Europe.

[MCMXCV]

Why is green national color of Slovenia despite you don't have it on flag?

I cannot say for sure, but there are a couple of reasons:

Slovenia is the third most forested country in Europe (with more than 60% of its landmass covered with forests) and the green colour is thus meant to represent them and our nature in general.

For some reason — maybe in relation to nature like stated above — our sports teams started using this colour for their dresses.

It is true that some people dislike the red in our flag, as they (still) associate it with the previous regime. Despite that, the green linden leaf is a neutral symbol that gained some traction around the period of gaining our independence.

https://lipovlist.turisticna-zveza.si/wp-content/uploads/2022/06/SKMBT_C22422060308360-scaled.jpg

[Katarzyna]

Why does Slovenia have so many handsome men? :lovehearts:

[MCMXCV]

Why does Slovenia have so many handsome men? :lovehearts:

It must have something to do with us taking and retaining the best features of the neighbouring peoples and those who traversed our territory through centuries. :angel

[rothaer]

1. Have Slovenes called themselves Slovenes (the respective word in Slovenian) ever since or is it a newer label? I ask because I've encountered a number of times that Slavs that had no own political entity often just were viewed generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment.

2. Connected to this: Have the Slovenes formed what is Slovenia or has Slovenia formed what are Slovenes?

3. Has there at any time been a political movement among Slovenes for forming a separate Slovene national entity before the breakup of the second Yugoslavia?

4. Considering how small (today's) Slovenia is, it has to my perception historically been enormously much distributed into different political entities. Is there any historical entity that is considered representing the core of Slovenia and Slovenehood, politically or culturally?

[rothaer]

5. Has the territory of today's Slovenia had indigenous in their origin Slavic nobles (noble families)?

(For comparison: Bohemia had almost exclusively indigenous Czech noble families, Brandenburg had almost only Old German nobles as the conquest was very violent and the Slavic nobles were destroyed, Mecklenburg had something like half of the nobility of Old German and half of the nobility of Slavic origin, including the ruling family, Pomerania had in majority the nobility of Slavic origin and the same applies to Silesia. Upper Saxony had both kinds with the leading dynasty being Old German. Etc.)

[rothaer]

6. As for the time of Austria-Hungary and before, say, the last 200 years, would you say that the area of today's Slovenia was treated equally within Austria with other parts or was it treated disadvantagously (or advantagously), if we excempt linguistical aspects?

I think of the financial treatment, taxes, investments, infrastructure, schools, education, roads, railways, bridges, whatever is the typical task of the state.

[MCMXCV]

Bled of Bohinj, what do you prefer? I know my preference, but curious what you think.

Although I see this thread as a more general one about Slovenia — and not another ask <insert_name> anything — this question is a personal one and don’t mind answering it. :)

I’m not entirely decided. I was quite young when I was the last time at both of these destinations, but let me elaborate how I feel about each of them:

Bohinj to me seems as a peaceful Alpine retreat, when one wants to get away from the civilisation and wander around in nature. It’s a place for contemplation, and I associate it with hiking and exploring the waterfalls (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savica_(waterfall)).

Bled, on the other hand, is a more of a high-end resort with an additional cultural value, despite the lake and island being the main natural features. Its castle is one of the oldest in Slovenia, being attested in the year 1011. And, of course, the church on the island is a gem of its own. I haven’t been yet on the island, unfortunately. Nowadays, the whole area is crowded by tourists and totally overpriced…

Near the lake, there are many villas; one of them is Vila Bled, now a five-star hotel, and until recently a venue for diplomatic and state events. After the fall of the Dual Monarchy, it already became an Alpine residence of the Karađorđevićs, during the WWII, it was the seat of the civil administration of the Occupied Formerly Austrian Territories of Carinthia and Carniola within the (Greater) German Reich (when it was called Schloßhotel Veldes), and, later — more famously (https://books.google.si/books?id=HUgEAAAAMBAJ&lpg=PP1&pg=PA62#v=twopage&q&f=false) — Tito’s Alpine residence.

Let me also mention the original Park Hotel (below), which was blown up by the Communists in the seventies to replace it with a soulless monstrosity. Such a shame.

https://www.kamra.si/wp-content/uploads/kamra-custom/full-images/1706990243.jpg
https://www.kamra.si/wp-content/uploads/2021/01/4978_R_2680a.jpg

At the end, I may appreciate Bled somewhat more. What’s your preference and why?

[MCMXCV]

Ever been to ski jumping competition as spectator? We wanted to go on Planica last year but didn't. I hope to see it someday.

I haven’t. I have to admit I’m not particularly invested into following any sports competitions; however, I’d like to visit Planica and the nordic centre when there isn’t a major event occurring. Albeit, it has to be a special experience and an atmosphere to be in the middle of a cheering crowd with hundreds of flags.

[Scarface F]

Best friend and me visited both last year. Bled was our goal but we saw on map Bohinj isn't far so we did both; even if Bohinj was an aftertought.

We preferred Bohinj which blew us away! It was incredibly nice. Don't get me wrong, Bled is majestic, especially castle above the lake, but indeed area was very touristy and coast around the lake was entirely build up, plus water was kinda muddy compared to Bohinj chrystal clear calm.

Hope to visit the island church next time though. We eat famous Bled cremeschnitte in restaurant by the coast too, and it was nice; you get served by robot waiter :p

[MCMXCV]

How much Slovene you consider guys like Luka Dončić or Benjamin Šesko?

This may be somewhat of a taboo topic for certain people, I have the impression. I don’t know Šeško’s background, so I’ll focus on Dončić for this.

In general, no one will say (aloud) he isn’t a (real) Slovene. Maybe except the most staunch (ethno)nationalists, but even then: his mother is Slovene (don’t know if full) and he’s been born here and grew up here. Objectively, no one can claim Dončić more than we do. Serbs can claim 50% of him, but him bearing a Serbian surname doesn’t make him more theirs than ours. On the other hand, I think he’s Orthodox and he was (https://www.tiktok.com/@srb_official_3/video/7278731456589892896) at some Vidovdan event, doing the three-finger gesture and singing there, which isn’t really a good sign if I’m being completely honest.

I don’t know what else to say. :)

[MCMXCV]

We preferred Bohinj which blew us away! It was incredibly nice. Don't get me wrong, Bled is majestic, especially castle above the lake, but indeed area was very touristy and coast around the lake was entirely build up, plus water was kinda muddy compared to Bohinj chrystal clear calm.

It’s been more than ten, fifteen years since when I was there, so I may as well change my opinion when I revisit these places in their current state…

[Scarface F]

This may be somewhat of a taboo topic for certain people, I have the impression. I don’t know Šeško’s background, so I’ll focus on Dončić for this.

In general, no one will say (aloud) he isn’t a (real) Slovene. Maybe except the most staunch (ethno)nationalists, but even then: his mother is Slovene (don’t know if full) and he’s been born here and grew up here. Objectively, no one can claim Dončić more than we do. Serbs can claim 50% of him, but him bearing a Serbian surname doesn’t make him more theirs than ours. On the other hand, I think he’s Orthodox and he was (https://www.tiktok.com/@srb_official_3/video/7278731456589892896) at some Vidovdan event, doing the three-finger gesture and singing there, which isn’t really a good sign if I’m being completely honest.

I don’t know what else to say. :)

Thanks for honest reply :)

Benjamin Šesko mother is Bosniak and his father Slovene. He is very promising footballer and potential huge star.

[Etelfrido]

1 — What are the perceptions and stereotypes Slovenians have regarding their neighbors? Do Slovenians have particularly good or bad relations with any?

2 — What's the general Slovenian opinion on the EU? Are there popular euroskeptic politicians or parties?

[MCMXCV]

What would you say are 3 most common phenotypes among ethnic Slovenes?

I need to disclaim I’m not a taxonomy expert (at all), so these are my general observations.

Slovenes are very phenotypically diverse. In my extended family, there are all the eye colours imaginable: brown, hazel, green, blue and grey. Darker hair (also in those with blue and green eyes) is predominant — there isn’t anyone really with very light hair; yet, I have a red-haired cousin, for example. In general, blond hair isn’t uncommon among Slovenes; however, there are more darker-haired individuals. When it comes to eye colour, non-brown colours seem to be more frequent than blond hair, still, overall, brown is the most common. Additionally, I’m not aware what kind of regional differences there are concerning this; I suspect there is some pattern in this regard as well.

One of my grandparent’s family line have all dark hair in combination with one of the brightest (almost white) eye colours I’ve ever seen. And in my other grandparent’s line, grey eyes appear to be frequent, and they seem to have very dark blond hair. Third grandparents’ line is dominated by brown hair and eyes, with some green (and possibly hazel) in-between. And the fourth with blue eyes and darker hair.

For example, in my elementary school class, 40% of pupils had blond hair, and around a third in my gymnasium.

[MCMXCV]

what Slovenian prodcuts you take most pride in for their quality and style?

If I first mention some relatively more widely known examples of iconic design from the past:

Rex Chair (https://rex-kralj.com/collection/rex/), a wooden foldable chair:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/602b172f6e2e5511b4c42733/1614672661239-J7158CEPLHLSSBRNQ81X/rex+head.jpg

ETA 85 (https://www.moma.org/collection/works/138921), a landline phone made by the company Iskra:
https://i.etsystatic.com/26930104/r/il/c0ca33/3102214768/il_570xN.3102214768_kruv.jpg

K67 (https://k67.berlin), a modular kiosk made out of polyfiber:
https://visitkoper.si/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Kiosk.jpg


What people mostly take pride in today, though, are food products: our wines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_wine#Wine-growing_regions), prosciutto (from the Slovene Karst region), pumpkin seed oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_seed_oil) (do you know this product?), olive oil, kranjska klobasa (= Krainer Wurst), potica and prekmurska gibanica; basically all protected products/dishes (https://www.slovenia.info/en/stories/savouring-slovenian-tradition).

Mineral water from Rogaška Slatina is claimed to be with the highest concentration of magnesium, and besides ordinary Donat (https://www.donat.com/digestion/), they are also selling this expensive version under another brand for Arabic countries and those who want to show off. :D
https://www.roiwater.com/media/1579/roi-water-package.jpg

Most of our more important factories with long tradition didn’t survive the transition after the independence, which is a great loss. Elan (https://elan.si/en) still manufactures good skiïng equipment, Akrapovič (https://www.akrapovic.com/en)’s motorcycle exhaust system is also known more widely, Pipistrel (https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com) is a light aircraft manufacturer, including electric ones, but was recently purchased by an American company…

[MCMXCV]

1. Have Slovenes called themselves Slovenes (the respective word in Slovenian) ever since or is it a newer label? I ask because I've encountered a number of times that Slavs that had no own political entity often just were viewed generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment.

I’m writing what’s known to me; I haven’t read any material specifically researching our autonym through history.

The proto-Slovene state was Carantania, preceded by the so-called Samo’s Empire, which was actually only an alliance of West (!) Slavic tribes, despite its name. It’s referred to as the earliest Slavic polity, but what’s important in this context is that it soon became a vassal of the Bavarians and later the Franks as the March of Carinthia. The etymology of Carantania isn’t undoubtedly substantiated; however, it’s certainly pre-Slavic: the presumtion is it either comes from *karra, a pre-Indo-European word for rock, or *karantos, meaning friend or ally in a Celtic language. From this name, the original Slovene name of Carinthia (Koroška = Kärnten), Korotan — from *korǫtanъ — emerged. In Czech, for example, the name of this land is still Korutany to this day. I believe I’ve even read somewhere (unfortunately cannot find the source) that the Czech name for Austria as a whole, Rakousko, may share this origin.

Fast forward to the nineteenth century, when the national awakening had begun all over Europe, by which point the predecessors of modern Slovenes identified themselves regionally (deželna identiteta = ländliche Identität) — based on the Habsburg territories (Inner Austrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Austria) provinces), not language or ethnicity — for centuries. In the spirit of the Spring of Nations, our intelligentsia also adopted this movement: it was mainly priests and other educated individuals and artists who were the proponents of these ideas. This is important to mention, as the overwhelming majority of Slovenes was peasants, and I’ve read articles that for some time, people had to been told “You are Slovenes, not Carniolans, Styrians etc.” This shows that our identity — in this sense — was built from top to bottom and didn’t appear on its own. The linking element was language, which also enabled movements, such as the Illyrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_movement), that encompassed other South Slavic languages.

In a nutshell, prior to identifying as Slovenes, we identified as Carinthians (Korošci = Kärntner), Styrians (Štajerci = Steirer) and Carniolans (Kranjci = Krainer), respectively, depending on our location; there wasn’t a common and unified identity. This regional identity still exists today, to an extent, but within Slovenia/Slovenes. The only difference being that Carniolans are broken down into Upper, Lower and Inner Carniolans, and that the Littoral identity is more shaped than it used to be.

Despite all of this, I must mention the name Slovene (Slovenec in Slovene) wasn’t first invented during the aforementioned period. That already happened in the sixteenth century, with the publication of the first printed books in our language by Primož Trubar, who established the basis of the standard/literary language. In his Abecedarium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abecedarium_(Trubar)) and Cathechismus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechismus_in_der_windischenn_Sprach), he referred to the people as Slovenci in Slovene. Parallelly, in German, he referred to the language as Windische Sprache. (As an interesting fact, the first editions used the Schwabacher script for Slovene, but later editions were in Antiqua which persisted.) The Slovene word for Slavs is Slovani, albeit the origin is the same as for Slovenes, from *slověninъ. If literacy of the common people existed already during that period, a unified identity may’ve already emerged this early on…

[MCMXCV]

2. Connected to this: Have the Slovenes formed what is Slovenia or has Slovenia formed what are Slovenes?

In my view, it’s definitely the former. We existed as Slovenes prior to any notion of a possibility of an ethnic state. I don’t see in what sense it could’ve been the other way around. Are you referring to certain Slavic communities across the border (the Windische in Austrian Carinthia or the Slavs of the Resia Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resian_dialect)) not perceiving themselves as part of the (modern) Slovene national body?


I’m adding subsequent additional remarks and — in lack of a strikethrough feature — underlining the relevant passage about which I’m not completely sure anymore.

What you’ve mentioned in the original question regarding “generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment”: I’ve never put an actual thought to it prior to now. I’ve never before been presented with such an option, to be frank. We aren’t learnt about history in that way, and, thus, I didn’t consider it a possibility. When I later responded to your question regarding potential older political movements, I came back to this and also the other answer (with the identity being formed “top to bottom”), and now I almost have more questions than answers myself. There could well have been influences the other way: “Slovenia” → Slovenes. What, specifically, I cannot say in this point in time.

What I can say with full confidence, though, is that the modern Republic of Slovenia — and any of its predecessors in the twentieth century — didn’t form the Slovenes. And I had this primarily in mind in my original answer. However, I won’t provide such a claim for older periods.

[Varda]

Do you know/understand Serbo-Caroatian?

[MCMXCV]

4. Considering how small (today's) Slovenia is, it has to my perception historically been enormously much distributed into different political entities. Is there any historical entity that is considered representing the core of Slovenia and Slovenehood, politically or culturally?

There are two such historical entities:

The first is Carantania (about which I’ve written a lot in my first reply) and its successor Carinthia. Carinthia — more specifically Gosposvetsko polje / Zollfeld (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zollfeld#History) — is commonly perceived as the cradle of Slovenehood and has somewhat of a mythic relevance, the most suitable analogy being with Serbs and (the) Kosovo (field). Minus the chauvinism. :)

The second is Carniola, whose importance grew as the number of Slovene speakers declined in Carinthia. As the only predominantly Slovene crown land within the Habsburg empire — with Ljubljana as its political and cultural centre — it represented the main Slovene administrative division. Carniolan (kranjski = krainisch) was the synonym for everything Slovene-related (language, people etc.) before that word — Slovene (slovenski = slowenisch) — itself replaced it. It appeared even outside of Carniola, referring to Slovene things in Styria and Carinthia. This applied as well to how other languages referred to Slovene, for example Russian:

Въ русскомъ языкѣ словенскій до ХІХ вѣка называли краинскимъ/крайнскимъ, виндскимъ​, карніольскимъ, карнійскимъ, хорутанскимъ, хорутанско-словенскимъ/хорутано-словенскимъ, крайно-словенскимъ. Съ конца ХІХ вѣка стало преобладать названіе словинскій, затѣмъ вытѣсненною современнымъ словенскій.
From the names listed, one can see that Carantania, Carinthia and Carniola used to be the places that gave relevant descriptive adjectives and proper nouns.

Our flag originates from the national colours (Landesfarben) of the Duchy of Carniola, which, in turn, came from its coat of arms (albeit, there are some disputes regarding the correct colours and their actual origin). It represented the core of the Slovene identity, many times at the expense of other, non-Carniolan ones.

https://grboslovje.si/shramba20/barve-kranjska.jpg

[MCMXCV]

3. Has there at any time been a political movement among Slovenes for forming a separate Slovene national entity before the breakup of the second Yugoslavia?

Yes. There was a proposal during the Spring of Nations for a United Slovenia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Slovenia).

Here is the Map of Slovene Land and Provinces from that period:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Zemljovid_slovenske_dežele_in_pokrajin_%28Original %29.jpg

[MCMXCV]

Do you know/understand Serbo-Caroatian?

Generations that went to school after 1991 have difficulties understanding it.

I, myself, had troubles understanding it when I was younger, but now — when I read various things on the internet — I’ve got more used to it. I don’t comprehend every word; however, I think I get the gist of it. It’s only passive knowledge, though; I can’t produce the language.

Можем, да покушавам, или немам појма, ако има што од тога, шта напишем, смисел. :icon_biggrin:

[rothaer]

I’m writing what’s known to me; I haven’t read any material specifically researching our autonym through history.

The proto-Slovene state was Carantania, preceded by the so-called Samo’s Empire, which was actually only an alliance of West (!) Slavic tribes, despite its name. It’s referred to as the earliest Slavic polity, but what’s important in this context is that it soon became a vassal of the Bavarians and later the Franks as the March of Carinthia. The etymology of Carantania isn’t undoubtedly substantiated; however, it’s certainly pre-Slavic: the presumtion is it either comes from *karra, a pre-Indo-European word for rock, or *karantos, meaning friend or ally in a Celtic language. From this name, the original Slovene name of Carinthia (Koroška = Kärnten), Korotan — from *korǫtanъ — emerged. In Czech, for example, the name of this land is still Korutany to this day. I believe I’ve even read somewhere (unfortunately cannot find the source) that the Czech name for Austria as a whole, Rakousko, may share this origin.

Fast forward to the nineteenth century, when the national awakening had begun all over Europe, by which point the predecessors of modern Slovenes identified themselves regionally (deželna identiteta = ländliche Identität) — based on the Habsburg territories (Inner Austrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inner_Austria) provinces), not language or ethnicity — for centuries. In the spirit of the Spring of Nations, our intelligentsia also adopted this movement: it was mainly priests and other educated individuals and artists who were the proponents of these ideas. This is important to mention, as the overwhelming majority of Slovenes was peasants, and I’ve read articles that for some time, people had to been told “You are Slovenes, not Carniolans, Styrians etc.” This shows that our identity — in this sense — was built from top to bottom and didn’t appear on its own. The linking element was language, which also enabled movements, such as the Illyrian (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Illyrian_movement), that encompassed other South Slavic languages.

In a nutshell, prior to identifying as Slovenes, we identified as Carinthians (Korošci = Kärntner), Styrians (Štajerci = Steirer) and Carniolans (Kranjci = Krainer), respectively, depending on our location; there wasn’t a common and unified identity. This regional identity still exists today, to an extent, but within Slovenia/Slovenes. The only difference being that Carniolans are broken down into Upper, Lower and Inner Carniolans, and that the Littoral identity is more shaped than it used to be.

Despite all of this, I must mention the name Slovene (Slovenec in Slovene) wasn’t first invented during the aforementioned period. That already happened in the sixteenth century, with the publication of the first printed books in our language by Primož Trubar, who established the basis of the standard/literary language. In his Abecedarium (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abecedarium_(Trubar)) and Cathechismus (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Catechismus_in_der_windischenn_Sprach), he referred to the people as Slovenci in Slovene. Parallelly, in German, he referred to the language as Windische Sprache. (As an interesting fact, the first editions used the Schwabacher script for Slovene, but later editions were in Antiqua which persisted.) The Slovene word for Slavs is Slovani, albeit the origin is the same as for Slovenes, from *slověninъ. If literacy of the common people existed already during that period, a unified identity may’ve already emerged this early on…

Very interesting, thanks for elaborations.

I must admit, that Innerösterreich was an unknown to me term and entity. Noteworthy also that Krain goes down into Central Istria and contains Mitterburg (Pazin, which I once visited).

[Mortimer]

Is Argeta Slovenian or Croatian?

https://www.mpreis.at/shop/p/argeta-huehnerfleischaufstrich-211955?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzoeuBhDqARIsAMdH14FI2kcXD_6SD2U8PPgh BQZS6LaEUikLGJ7ZUVehCmgwZ3DamI9I5P8aAt9_EALw_wcB

[Mortimer]

Why Austrians like Croatians more then Slovenians eventhough slovenians are genetically and culturally less balkan more central-european/austrian shifted?

[rothaer]

In my view, it’s definitely the former. We existed as Slovenes prior to any notion of a possibility of an ethnic state. I don’t see in what sense it could’ve been the other way around. Are you referring to certain Slavic communities across the border (the Windische in Austrian Carinthia or the Slavs of the Resia Valley (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resian_dialect)) not perceiving themselves as part of the (modern) Slovene national body?


I’m adding subsequent additional remarks and — in lack of a strikethrough feature — underlining the relevant passage about which I’m not completely sure anymore.

What you’ve mentioned in the original question regarding “generic Slavs without any particular tribal assignment”: I’ve never put an actual thought to it prior to now. I’ve never before been presented with such an option, to be frank. We aren’t learnt about history in that way, and, thus, I didn’t consider it a possibility. When I later responded to your question regarding potential older political movements, I came back to this and also the other answer (with the identity being formed “top to bottom”), and now I almost have more questions than answers myself. There could well have been influences the other way: “Slovenia” → Slovenes. What, specifically, I cannot say in this point in time.

What I can say with full confidence, though, is that the modern Republic of Slovenia — and any of its predecessors in the twentieth century — didn’t form the Slovenes. And I had this primarily in mind in my original answer. However, I won’t provide such a claim for older periods.

I had this in mind: When the Netherlands separated from the common Germans it happened by maintaining an other High language (High Dutch instead of High German) and in the fringes it was this state that formed who became Dutch and who German. This is visible at the fact that there - in contrast to the German - Danish border f. i. - are no minorities on both sides of the border.

Now, if I'm not mistaken this is also mostly the case as for the Slovene border towards other Slavs. The border seems to me "too perfect" for having followed a prior defined Slovene ethnos, which makes me assume that instead the political border defined what is Slovene (in these border areas, not in the core).

[rothaer]

There are two such historical entities:

The first is Carantania (about which I’ve written a lot in my first reply) and its successor Carinthia. Carinthia — more specifically Gosposvetsko polje / Zollfeld (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zollfeld#History) — is commonly perceived as the cradle of Slovenehood and has somewhat of a mythic relevance, the most suitable analogy being with Serbs and (the) Kosovo (field). Minus the chauvinism. :)

The second is Carniola, whose importance grew as the number of Slovene speakers declined in Carinthia. As the only predominantly Slovene crown land within the Habsburg empire — with Ljubljana as its political and cultural centre — it represented the main Slovene administrative division. Carniolan (kranjski = krainisch) was the synonym for everything Slovene-related (language, people etc.) before that word — Slovene (slovenski = slowenisch) — itself replaced it. It appeared even outside of Carniola, referring to Slovene things in Styria and Carinthia. This applied as well to how other languages referred to Slovene, for example Russian:

Въ русскомъ языкѣ словенскій до ХІХ вѣка называли краинскимъ/крайнскимъ, виндскимъ​, карніольскимъ, карнійскимъ, хорутанскимъ, хорутанско-словенскимъ/хорутано-словенскимъ, крайно-словенскимъ. Съ конца ХІХ вѣка стало преобладать названіе словинскій, затѣмъ вытѣсненною современнымъ словенскій.
From the names listed, one can see that Carantania, Carinthia and Carniola used to be the places that gave relevant descriptive adjectives and proper nouns.

Our flag originates from the national colours (Landesfarben) of the Duchy of Carniola, which, in turn, came from its coat of arms (albeit, there are some disputes regarding the correct colours and their actual origin). It represented the core of the Slovene identity, many times at the expense of other, non-Carniolan ones.

https://grboslovje.si/shramba20/barve-kranjska.jpg

I imagined something like that for Carniola / Krain. Completely new to me is this reference to the Zollfeld which is even north of Klagenfurt. Somewhat Kosovsko polje style, yeah. :) But if I get you right this reference doesn't cause the small Carinthian proportion within today's Slovenia to be regarded more core Slovenian than Carniola.

[rothaer]

If I first mention some relatively more widely known examples of iconic design from the past:

Rex Chair (https://rex-kralj.com/collection/rex/), a wooden foldable chair:
https://images.squarespace-cdn.com/content/602b172f6e2e5511b4c42733/1614672661239-J7158CEPLHLSSBRNQ81X/rex+head.jpg

ETA 85 (https://www.moma.org/collection/works/138921), a landline phone made by the company Iskra:
https://i.etsystatic.com/26930104/r/il/c0ca33/3102214768/il_570xN.3102214768_kruv.jpg

K67 (https://k67.berlin), a modular kiosk made out of polyfiber:
https://visitkoper.si/wp-content/uploads/2021/07/Kiosk.jpg


What people mostly take pride in today, though, are food products: our wines (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovenian_wine#Wine-growing_regions), prosciutto (from the Slovene Karst region), pumpkin seed oil (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pumpkin_seed_oil) (do you know this product?), olive oil, kranjska klobasa (= Krainer Wurst), potica and prekmurska gibanica; basically all protected products/dishes (https://www.slovenia.info/en/stories/savouring-slovenian-tradition).

Mineral water from Rogaška Slatina is claimed to be with the highest concentration of magnesium, and besides ordinary Donat (https://www.donat.com/digestion/), they are also selling this expensive version under another brand for Arabic countries and those who want to show off. :D
https://www.roiwater.com/media/1579/roi-water-package.jpg

Most of our more important factories with long tradition didn’t survive the transition after the independence, which is a great loss. Elan (https://elan.si/en) still manufactures good skiïng equipment, Akrapovič (https://www.akrapovic.com/en)’s motorcycle exhaust system is also known more widely, Pipistrel (https://www.pipistrel-aircraft.com) is a light aircraft manufacturer, including electric ones, but was recently purchased by an American company…

You seem not to be much affected to Slovene refrigerators. :)

Theoretically you could also take pride in Prosecco. It's derived from the ethnic Slovene village of Presek in what is now Italy.

I wonder whether anyone in the village Proseken in Mecklenburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proseken that shares this presek etymology has a clue about the connection to Prosecco. ;)

[rothaer]

Yes. There was a proposal during the Spring of Nations for a United Slovenia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Slovenia).

Here is the Map of Slovene Land and Provinces from that period:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b6/Zemljovid_slovenske_dežele_in_pokrajin_%28Original %29.jpg

Wow, okay...

(I notice that the crazy borders at the Metlika area already existed at that time.)

[MCMXCV]

I must admit, that Innerösterreich was an unknown to me term and entity.

Indeed, Notranja Avstrija / Innerösterreich is quite a forgotten term and entity to the outside world. It embodied the (South) Slavic provinces of the core of the Habsburg monarchy — represented by the aforementioned Austria Interior and Austria Inferior / Niederösterreich, Austria Superior / Oberösterreich and Austria Anterior / Vorderösterreich (shown in the second graphic below, albeit missing the possessions in present-day Switzerland) — especially if one keeps in mind that the ethnic border used to be much more northern in the mediæval times, when these subdivisions were conceptualised. There’s a town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrei_in_Osttirol) even in East Tyrol / Osttirol that used to be named Windisch-Matrei until the year 1921.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Carte_archiduché_Autriche.svg/930px-Carte_archiduché_Autriche.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Autriche_antérieure.png


Noteworthy also that Krain goes down into Central Istria and contains Mitterburg (Pazin, which I once visited).

That is the old border that existed for centuries — as it was also the outer border of the Holy Roman Empire with the Most Serene Republic of Venice — until Napoleon invaded the region. After his defeat, that area, with the remainder of the peninsula, became part of the Margraviate of Istria within the Austrian Littoral. Additionally, one can notice on old maps (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Ethnographic_map_of_austrian_monarchy_czoernig_185 5.jpg) how the Inner Austrian coast northwestern of Trieste had ethnically been Slovene, while the coast that the Republic of Slovenia has today was actually ethnically Italian…

[MCMXCV]

Is Argeta Slovenian or Croatian?

https://www.mpreis.at/shop/p/argeta-huehnerfleischaufstrich-211955?gad_source=1&gclid=Cj0KCQiAzoeuBhDqARIsAMdH14FI2kcXD_6SD2U8PPgh BQZS6LaEUikLGJ7ZUVehCmgwZ3DamI9I5P8aAt9_EALw_wcB

Our company that has invented and is producing Argeta was acquired by a Croatian company in 2010.

[MCMXCV]

But if I get you right this reference doesn't cause the small Carinthian proportion within today's Slovenia to be regarded more core Slovenian than Carniola.

It doesn’t. Nowadays, Upper Carniola (Gorenjska = Oberkrain) is considered the core. In a way, the stereotype of the whole Slovene culture, like the Bavarian is for the entirety of Germany to outsiders and in popular culture.

Even the Slovene national costume (Tracht) is that of Upper Carniola, although it’s only native to that specific region. Other regions have their own.

https://sasa-novice.si/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2021/04/Unbenannt-30.jpg

[MCMXCV]

You seem not to be much affected to Slovene refrigerators. :)

Believe me or not, I was actually intending to include Gorenje but later didn’t. Since they’ve been acquired by the Chinese Hisense, the quality of all of their products declined immensely. I’m positively surprised you even know about them. :)

https://hudo.com/si/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/07/profimedia-0159656502.jpg


Theoretically you could also take pride in Prosecco. It's derived from the ethnic Slovene village of Presek in what is now Italy.

I wonder whether anyone in the village Proseken in Mecklenburg https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proseken that shares this presek etymology has a clue about the connection to Prosecco. ;)

I’m familiar with this wine — Aperol Spritz, anyone? — but had no idea it originates from this Slovene village, a stone’s throw away from the beautiful Miramare Castle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miramare_Castle)! Thank you for informing me.

Maybe it’s time to raise awareness and start a petition for the twinning of these German and Italian towns with Slavic etymology! :icon_cheers:

[MCMXCV]

(I notice that the crazy borders at the Metlika area already existed at that time.)

Nice attention to details. It’s a common misconception that border is the aftermath of our separation from Yugoslavia. It’s at least around two hundred years old (https://maps.arcanum.com/en/map/secondsurvey-illyria/?layers=osm%2C60&bbox=1685910.1392686896%2C5720430.72947535%2C17290 40.7257790158%2C5737166.295595243).

[MCMXCV]

Why Austrians like Croatians more then Slovenians eventhough slovenians are genetically and culturally less balkan more central-european/austrian shifted?

I think that’d be a question more suitable for the Austrians (https://www.theapricity.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?220-%D6sterreich), don’t you think? I have no idea why and to which extent what you said is true.

You could also ask people around you in person. I’d be interested in knowing what they say.

[MCMXCV]

5. Has the territory of today's Slovenia had indigenous in their origin Slavic nobles (noble families)?

The shortest answer is: (most likely) no. It also depends on what exactly is meant with indigenous in this case. I think all prominent noble families came from somewhere and only then inculturated.

During the socialist Yugoslavia, the history of our nobility had been written exclusively from an extremely negative perspective. And all of them were deemed as foreigners (Germans) who exploited poor Slovenes. Luckily, this is changing, as new generations of historians who research this aren’t from the onset determined to spread a negative and ideological narrative.

I don’t know nearly enough about our nobility to give an objective judgement; however, I’ll mention the Counts of Cilli (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafen_von_Cilli) (Celje). They were the most important noble family here and were even rivals to the Habsburgs themselves. The three golden stars from their coat of arms appear today in that of Slovenia, including the flag.

https://www.grboslovje.si/shramba15/grofceljski5v.jpg

Some of the others nobles who either had their main residence here or were relevant as they held possessions in our lands were from the Houses of Auersperg (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Auersperg), Attems (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Attems_(Adelsgeschlecht)), Andechs (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Andechs_(Adelsgeschlecht)), Spanheim (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spanheimer), Herberstein (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herberstein_(Adelsgeschlecht)), Otakar (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Otakare), Heunburg (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Grafen_von_Heunburg), Windisch-Graetz (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Windisch-Graetz). An exhaustive list is here (https://sl.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seznam_plemiških_rodbin_na_Slovenskem).

I almost forgot to mention that Barbara of Cilli (https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Barbara_von_Cilli) was the Holy Roman Empress. :)

https://bankaslovenije.blob.core.windows.net/uploaded/legacy-images/Barbara%20Celjska_velika.jpg

[MCMXCV]

I had this in mind: When the Netherlands separated from the common Germans it happened by maintaining an other High language (High Dutch instead of High German) and in the fringes it was this state that formed who became Dutch and who German. This is visible at the fact that there - in contrast to the German - Danish border f. i. - are no minorities on both sides of the border.

Now, if I'm not mistaken this is also mostly the case as for the Slovene border towards other Slavs. The border seems to me "too perfect" for having followed a prior defined Slovene ethnos, which makes me assume that instead the political border defined what is Slovene (in these border areas, not in the core).

What I see different in the case of Slovenes, when compared to your example, is that we weren’t first in some common union with other South Slavs — in this case Croats — from whom we later separated. We shared neither a common political nor cultural or literary history with them until the first Yugoslavia. (I presume sharing all of these was the case with the Dutch and Germans?) We were fractured even within our own ethos. For example, for some time, during the critical period of awakening, there was another literary standard of eastern Slovenes (in addition to a third one, of the adjacent Slovenes in Hungary, as I already explained in an answer in your personal thread), and there was a possibility that — in addition to the Slovenes centred around the Carniolan identity — another eastern Slovene identity would be formed, maybe even together with the Kajkavians. When you mention the “border areas” of what is Slovene, I’d say the Kajkavian regions were the outer extent of a possible Slovene ethos. At least based on language. Kajkavians referred to themselves as Slovenci (https://kajkavski-jezik.eu/en/) before we ourselves have, and certain Slovene linguists in the nineteenth century claimed Kajkavian speech was a dialect of Slovene. But since the Croatian nation had a history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Parliament#Historical_background) of being a state-forming people, their established borders — encompassing the Kajkavians — remained.

The second part is true at least in certain aspects. The border between the present-day Slovenia and Croatia is (excluding Istria) one of the oldest borders in Europe. It existed for a millennium as the outer border of the Holy Roman Empire and, later, as the inner border of the Dual Monarchy. In the ethnic sense, Catholic (South) Slavs within the empire later became Slovenes and those outside Croats. It was a clean cut, with no minorities on either side, like you mentioned. But people and language don’t all of a sudden change when one crosses this border. The dialectal continuum goes from Slovene into Kajkavian and Čakavian in the southwest. The non-existent minorities by the border you refer to actually reveal themselves within the Republic of Croatia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Historical_Croatian_dialects_in_bih_and_cro_1.PNG

[rothaer]

Indeed, Notranja Avstrija / Innerösterreich is quite a forgotten term and entity to the outside world. It embodied the (South) Slavic provinces of the core of the Habsburg monarchy — represented by the aforementioned Austria Interior and Austria Inferior / Niederösterreich, Austria Superior / Oberösterreich and Austria Anterior / Vorderösterreich (shown in the second graphic below, albeit missing the possessions in present-day Switzerland) — especially if one keeps in mind that the ethnic border used to be much more northern in the mediæval times, when these subdivisions were conceptualised. There’s a town (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Matrei_in_Osttirol) even in East Tyrol / Osttirol that used to be named Windisch-Matrei until the year 1921.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/85/Carte_archiduché_Autriche.svg/930px-Carte_archiduché_Autriche.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/ea/Autriche_antérieure.png



That is the old border that existed for centuries — as it was also the outer border of the Holy Roman Empire with the Most Serene Republic of Venice — until Napoleon invaded the region. After his defeat, that area, with the remainder of the peninsula, became part of the Margraviate of Istria within the Austrian Littoral. Additionally, one can notice on old maps (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Ethnographic_map_of_austrian_monarchy_czoernig_185 5.jpg) how the Inner Austrian coast northwestern of Trieste had ethnically been Slovene, while the coast that the Republic of Slovenia has today was actually ethnically Italian…

Yes, crazy!

Vorderösterreich is known to me. As for Ost Tirol you simply still have the Drava valley there, so Windishh XY is not that big surprise.

[rothaer]

Believe me or not, I was actually intending to include Gorenje but later didn’t. Since they’ve been acquired by the Chinese Hisense, the quality of all of their products declined immensely. I’m positively surprised you even know about them. :)

https://hudo.com/si/wp-content/uploads/sites/2/2017/07/profimedia-0159656502.jpg



I’m familiar with this wine — Aperol Spritz, anyone? — but had no idea it originates from this Slovene village, a stone’s throw away from the beautiful Miramare Castle (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Miramare_Castle)! Thank you for informing me.

Maybe it’s time to raise awareness and start a petition for the twinning of these German and Italian towns with Slavic etymology! :icon_cheers:

They do offer Gorenje at IKEA and when I first saw that I wondered what it is. It ended up in me getting to know it, ofc. :)

Miramare: This is a typical German linguistic xenophilia, not to say a latinophilia. I'd "vulgarily" call it Seeblick and that's it. :p

But it's a wonderful estate that I must have missed! A kind of western Abbazio/Opatija, I assume.

And yeah, the two non-Slavics, Germans and Italians, connected by Slavic toponyms, is a noteworthy thing. For Germans, however, this is a conscious part of identity (not in the Rhineland, ofc...). :)

[MCMXCV]

Miramare: This is a typical German linguistic xenophilia, not to say a latinophilia. I'd "vulgarily" call it Seeblick and that's it. :p

I thought you’d be more lenient, since it was built specifically for the later Emperor of Mexico. :(

[rothaer]

I thought you’d be more lenient, since it was built specifically for the later Emperor of Mexico. :(

Yeah... :)

Das kommt mir spanisch vor (this seems to me Spanish) is the standard German expression for alienation that was originally caused by the Habsburg-Spanish marriages and the introduction of some - unknown to Germans - procedures at the court in Vienna.

[rothaer]

What I see different in the case of Slovenes, when compared to your example, is that we weren’t first in some common union with other South Slavs — in this case Croats — from whom we later separated. We shared neither a common political nor cultural or literary history with them until the first Yugoslavia. (I presume sharing all of these was the case with the Dutch and Germans?) We were fractured even within our own ethos. For example, for some time, during the critical period of awakening, there was another literary standard of eastern Slovenes (in addition to a third one, of the adjacent Slovenes in Hungary, as I already explained in an answer in your personal thread), and there was a possibility that — in addition to the Slovenes centred around the Carniolan identity — another eastern Slovene identity would be formed, maybe even together with the Kajkavians. When you mention the “border areas” of what is Slovene, I’d say the Kajkavian regions were the outer extent of a possible Slovene ethos. At least based on language. Kajkavians referred to themselves as Slovenci (https://kajkavski-jezik.eu/en/) before we ourselves have, and certain Slovene linguists in the nineteenth century claimed Kajkavian speech was a dialect of Slovene. But since the Croatian nation had a history (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croatian_Parliament#Historical_background) of being a state-forming people, their established borders — encompassing the Kajkavians — remained.

The second part is true at least in certain aspects. The border between the present-day Slovenia and Croatia is (excluding Istria) one of the oldest borders in Europe. It existed for a millennium as the outer border of the Holy Roman Empire and, later, as the inner border of the Dual Monarchy. In the ethnic sense, Catholic (South) Slavs within the empire later became Slovenes and those outside Croats. It was a clean cut, with no minorities on either side, like you mentioned. But people and language don’t all of a sudden change when one crosses this border. The dialectal continuum goes from Slovene into Kajkavian and Čakavian in the southwest. The non-existent minorities by the border you refer to actually reveal themselves within the Republic of Croatia.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/92/Historical_Croatian_dialects_in_bih_and_cro_1.PNG

Very interetsting. This now touches how Slovenes (in a today sense) came to be defined towards the south. While I can well imagine how Sovenes could have included Kajkavians, I can not imagine the same as for Chakavians. But I guess there may simply have been a continuum as well, just a very long one with bigger differences and that this in sum then may alienate.

Interestingly, the Kajkavians - that here obviously in one particular moment self-identified als Slovenci - were not the original "titular Croats", that had their core of Croat statehood around Knin/Zadar. So yes, inside or outside the long term HRE border will have mattered much in this context...

[Scarface F]

Why Austrians like Croatians more then Slovenians eventhough slovenians are genetically and culturally less balkan more central-european/austrian shifted?

No idea (I am not fan of Austria and had unpleasant experiences there) but neighbours generally dislike each other. Why Slovenes like more Serbs than Croats?

We Croats were always very surprised by negative and sometimes outright hostile behaviour from Slovenes towards Croats, thus they were mockingly called "Alpine Serbs". We never had any problems in history, Croats never claimed any Slovene lands (unlike vice versa as you see some great Slovenia maps include parts of Croatia) and they were our only Slavic speaking neighbours with western Christian culture (and Croats theirs).

I grew to like Slovenes trough years but many Croats didn't forget their unjustified nasty behaviour towards us (including from their institutions like Ljubljanska Bank).

[Scarface F]

Interestingly, the Kajkavians - that here obviously in one particular moment self-identified als Slovenci - were not the original "titular Croats", that had their core of Croat statehood around Knin/Zadar. So yes, inside or outside the long term HRE border will have mattered much in this context...

Yes. Even anthropological anylysis showed that. Skulls from old Croatian medieval locations in Dalmatia closely matched those in Poland, while those in northern Croatia did not as they closely resembled those in Czech Lands/Moravia.

It would be interesting to see same kind of analysis for medieval ancestors of Slovenes.