Mongoloid % of Turkic peoples

[Sora]

Some nostalgia ;) :D

https://abload.de/img/111zwi6k.png

*Source: https://www.facebook.com/turkishdna/photos/a.517992108558301/745907219100121/?type=3&theater

[Sora]

And this is the answerful diss to @Petros and other trolls who thinks they know these issues better than Turks themselves and claim they only have 5% Turkish(!) dna :P

[Fiko0]

My brother in law is from Aydin and he looks very Mongolic. Small and wide head shape, high cheekbones and small slanted eyes. I asked him about this and he told me that they are descendants from a mongol tribe.

I wonder if i can convince him to do a autosomal test.

[Sora]

My brother in law is from Aydin and he looks very Mongolic. Small and wide head shape, high cheekbones and small slanted eyes. I asked him about this and he told me that they are descendants from a mongol tribe.

I wonder if i can convince him to do a autosomal test.

Is he a Kara Tatar? I've heard that Kara Tatars are descendants of Mongolians live in Turkey

[Bunalim]

Some nostalgia ;) :D

https://abload.de/img/111zwi6k.png

*Source: https://www.facebook.com/turkishdna/photos/a.517992108558301/745907219100121/?type=3&theater

Why do Turks name themselves after a group whom contributed well under 25% to their DNA pool? Is it because of culture? Because a lot of culture has been taken from surrounding areas too. Or is it because they speak a Turkic language?

[Gaditanian]

Why do Turks name themselves after a group whom contributed well under 25% to their DNA pool? Is it because of culture? Because a lot of culture has been taken from surrounding areas too. Or is it because they speak a Turkic language?

turquization, the same thing that happens in the north of africa which people they considered theirselves as arabic and the majority are between 10-15% of arabic genetics. The dominant people in the past are those who impose their identity on the rest.

[altaic]

How to calculate East Eurasion and West Eurasian under this MDLP K23b method? Do you sum some of the results?

[Leto]

Why do Turks name themselves after a group whom contributed well under 25% to their DNA pool? Is it because of culture? Because a lot of culture has been taken from surrounding areas too. Or is it because they speak a Turkic language?
Yes, language and folk culture. I guess a lot of that was reinforced in the early 20th century because the Ottomans as most Muslim states and empires of their time put the Muslim identity first. At least to my knowledge. European-style nationalism emerged in the 19th century.

[Ülev]

GÖKTENGİRİNİN ÇOÇUKLARINA SELAM OLSUN IRKIMIZI DOĞRU YOLU GÖSTERSİN

[Karaton]

Why do Turks name themselves after a group whom contributed well under 25% to their DNA pool? Is it because of culture? Because a lot of culture has been taken from surrounding areas too. Or is it because they speak a Turkic language?

Who says its "well under 25%"?

[Bakha]

I am 25 crim tatar and 25 uzbek and on gedmatch i usually get 14% mongoloid related admixture. So my father must have been 30-40%. Interesting to see info on mongoloid % on tajiks, they are not turkic, but they do have it also.

[Leto]

I am 25 crim tatar and 25 uzbek and on gedmatch i usually get 14% mongoloid related admixture. So my father must have been 30-40%. Interesting to see info on mongoloid % on tajiks, they are not turkic, but they do have it also.
Since when are you 25 percent Crimean Tatar? Aren't you Bukhara Persian? And 3-4% of your Mongoloid must be from your Volga Russian side.

[Bakha]

Since when are you 25 percent Crimean Tatar? Aren't you Bukhara Persian? And 3-4% of your Mongoloid must be from your Volga Russian side.

Well my russian side is definitely have some mongoloid, since my grand grand mother is pure Uralid woman, and my grandfather is east baltid with zero beard and bodyhair.
Crimea tatar and bukharan uzbek is the info i recently got from my father.

[Leto]

Well my russian side is definitely have some mongoloid, since my grand grand mother is pure Uralid woman, and my grandfather is east baltid with zero beard and bodyhair.
Crimea tatar and bukharan uzbek is the info i recently got from my father.
And you look quite hairy and swarthy as if you were zero Russian :D
I think you have too little Baltic for that mix. Crimean Tatars are more European than Anatolian Turks.

[Thracian]

Since when are you 25 percent Crimean Tatar? Aren't you Bukhara Persian? And 3-4% of your Mongoloid must be from your Volga Russian side.

What about Mordovians? Do you have any Mordovian Gedmatch kit no?

[Bakha]

And you look quite hairy and swarthy as if you were zero Russian :D
I think you have too little Baltic for that mix. Crimean Tatars are more European than Anatolian Turks.

I do have a baltic component. My russian side is definitely all baltic looking, except my grandmother, that was classified here as gorid. And i score a lot of finnish on Dna Land:

https://i.ibb.co/D94BfbP/02-AC377-B-3069-4190-9494-CF5-E7-E33156-D.png (https://ibb.co/k4KL2yV)

And even 17% baltic on my heritage:


https://i.ibb.co/gZnPHNF/41-C58-CB5-941-D-4-FCD-AA7-E-E5-C633-B5-C0-BE.jpg (https://ibb.co/8ghdTq4)

[Fiko0]

Is he a Kara Tatar? I've heard that Kara Tatars are descendants of Mongolians live in Turkey


I believe he said something like Tatar indeed. I will ask again if i see him =)

[Leto]

What about Mordovians? Do you have any Mordovian Gedmatch kit no?
They're similar to Northern and Volga Russians. 8-10% mongoloid or so. I've seen a few samples plus academic references.

[Leto]

My brother in law is from Aydin and he looks very Mongolic. Small and wide head shape, high cheekbones and small slanted eyes. I asked him about this and he told me that they are descendants from a mongol tribe.

I wonder if i can convince him to do a autosomal test.
It would be definitely interesting.

[Thracian]

They're similar to Northern and Volga Russians. 8-10% mongoloid or so. I've seen a few samples plus academic references.

Thank you. That makes sense. I usually get better fit on Global 25 when I select Mordovians instead of Ukrainians or Poles. It also causes reducing my Turkic admixture (I select Uygurs etc...) on G25.

[Bakha]

They're similar to Northern and Volga Russians. 8-10% mongoloid or so. I've seen a few samples plus academic references.

My gorid grandmother is mordovian from Ulyanovsk btw

[andre]

It’s not a lil too much 10-15% mongoloid for anatolian turkish?

[Nurzat]

Gedrosia K3:

E_Eurasian 5.66 Pct
SSA -
W_Eurasian 94.34 Pct


can I into Turan? :coffee:

I seem to score above the Gagauz and almost reaching the Kumyk and the Azeri :rolleyes:

[Leto]

Gedrosia K3:

E_Eurasian 5.66 Pct
SSA -
W_Eurasian 94.34 Pct


can I into Turan? :coffee:

I seem to score above the Gagauz and almost reaching the Kumyk and the Azeri :rolleyes:
Oh precious mongoloid blood. You should cherish every drop of it as the OP does :D

[Annihilus]

How to calculate East Eurasion and West Eurasian under this MDLP K23b method? Do you sum some of the results?

I want to know too, what components are considered mongoloid here

[Leto]

I want to know too, what components are considered mongoloid here
Off the top of my head: Tungus Altaic, East Siberian, Paleo Siberian, South East Asian, Austronesian, Arctic, possibly Amerindian.

[Annihilus]

Off the top of my head: Tungus Altaic, East Siberian, Paleo Siberian, South East Asian, Austronesian, Arctic, possibly Amerindian.

and Ancestral Altaic ?

[Nurzat]

Oh precious mongoloid blood. You should cherish every drop of it as the OP does :D

thanks bro. dunno where it comes from, my relatives look either Russian either German, I am the only Tatar xD

https://scontent.fsbz1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.15752-9/61692421_1128057827377481_123784865890959360_n.jpg ?_nc_cat=103&_nc_oc=AQkvlR8joy2YJE1DvvX4wJHIm9P0CfN2tGEv9_074UV ILnUxFXQsMZP-up81baHTdEA&_nc_ht=scontent.fsbz1-2.fna&oh=321e7c21634a4d25b362f42e3f582f7d&oe=5DD77B27

[Leto]

and Ancestral Altaic ?
No, it's white. Northern Europeans get 3-5%. It is a weird moniker, why Altaic when it is not mongoloid?

[Annihilus]

No, it's white. Northern Europeans get 3-5%. It is a weird moniker, why Altaic when it is not mongoloid?

So because north euro's get it is considered white? figures

[Leto]

So because north euro's get it is considered white? figures
It must be some Steppe related stuff. One thing is clear - it is not East Eurasian if you have a problem with my wording ('white').

[Marmara]

It must be some Steppe related stuff. One thing is clear - it is not East Eurasian if you have a problem with my wording ('white').

It could be, some North Europeans look real chinky. A full Ancestral Altaic i think wouldn't look white at all.

[Bakha]

And you look quite hairy and swarthy as if you were zero Russian :D
I think you have too little Baltic for that mix. Crimean Tatars are more European than Anatolian Turks.

also you re over exaggerating my west asian influence on the looks. Its only 25%. I look perfectly european/south russian when untanned and facial hair (beard and under eyes) trimmed. My real skin color is very very pale. Anyways i dont have nothing against western asian aesthetics. It can be very beatiful without exaggerated facial features - for example asian-alpine, iranid-med

[Leto]

It could be, some North Europeans look real chinky. A full Ancestral Altaic i think wouldn't look white at all.
No one is fully AA. Guys, I repeat - the "Ancestral Altaic" component is NOT included in the map.

[Leto]

also you re over exaggerating my west asian influence on the looks. Its only 25%. I look perfectly european/south russian when untanned and facial hair (beard and under eyes) trimmed. My real skin color is very very pale. Anyways i dont have nothing against western asian aesthetics. It can be very beatiful without exaggerated facial features - for example asian-alpine, iranid-med
I don't know, man. When I looked at the photos, you looked straight up Azer, Kurd or even Afghan to me.

[Zoro]

Some nostalgia ;) :D

https://abload.de/img/111zwi6k.png

*Source: https://www.facebook.com/turkishdna/photos/a.517992108558301/745907219100121/?type=3&theater


Basing on a K23 admixture calculator is messy and not very accurate way of determining Mongoloid admixture because some of the references for the other components themselves have mongoloid %.

For example South Indian component is based on South Indian tribes and Malayans and even Onge!! You don;t think South Indian component has a ton of East Eurasian? I mean according to the MDLP k23 spreadsheet on Gedmatch MALAYANS score 82% and ONGE score 54% South Indian ! and Malayans are mostly East Eurasian people so that means South Indian component is mostly East Eurasian. So that should be added too to mongoloid unless you don't want to include SE Asian admixture in mongoloid definition, but then Mongols also have SE Asian admixture.

So obviously South Indian component is not West Eurasian. It is mostly East Eurasian component.

So then South Indian component should also be added to mongoloid unless by mongoloid you don't include SE Asian.

It's more accurate to use ADMIXTOOLS qpAdm for calculation. If you really want to use admixture calculator because you can't do ADMIXTOOLS qpAdm or something like that, then best to use a K3 calculator such as one that has a ENF component, SSA component and Mongol component. This way there is no confusion and the results are alot cleaner.

Figure 17 at Eursiandna.com at https://eurasiandna.com/sapda-admixture-inference-updates-revisions/ has a plot that shows East & SE Asian combined admixture for a few populations and its not based on Admixture calculator.

[Cumansky]

No, it's white. Northern Europeans get 3-5%. It is a weird moniker, why Altaic when it is not mongoloid?

Ancestral Altaic peaking in Khanty 46% what you saying Khanty are "White"?

90431

[Sora]

Basing on a K23 admixture calculator is messy and not very accurate way of determining Mongoloid admixture because some of the references for the other components themselves have mongoloid %.

For example South Indian component is based on South Indian tribes and Malayans and even Onge!! You don;t think South Indian component has a ton of East Eurasian? I mean according to the MDLP k23 spreadsheet on Gedmatch MALAYANS score 82% and ONGE score 54% South Indian ! and Malayans are mostly East Eurasian people so that means South Indian component is mostly East Eurasian. So that should be added too to mongoloid unless you don't want to include SE Asian admixture in mongoloid definition, but then Mongols also have SE Asian admixture.

So obviously South Indian component is not West Eurasian. It is mostly East Eurasian component.

So then South Indian component should also be added to mongoloid unless by mongoloid you don't include SE Asian.

It's more accurate to use ADMIXTOOLS qpAdm for calculation. If you really want to use admixture calculator because you can't do ADMIXTOOLS qpAdm or something like that, then best to use a K3 calculator such as one that has a ENF component, SSA component and Mongol component. This way there is no confusion and the results are alot cleaner.

Figure 17 at Eursiandna.com at https://eurasiandna.com/sapda-admixt...tes-revisions/ has a plot that shows East & SE Asian combined admixture for a few populations and its not based on Admixture calculator.

In the photo I've posted, the "East_Eurasian" includes only Mongoloid components. So in that project, S. Indian is considered West Eurasian(Caucasoid)

[Nurzat]

Ancestral Altaic peaking in Khanty 46% what you saying Khanty are "White"?

90431

White means noble and yes they look more noble than today's white people (the West) :coffee:

[Leto]

Khanty are about 50% European, obviously that component is not based on their East Eurasian side which is basically Siberian.

Irish (celticdragongod)
# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.69
2 European_Early_Farmers 28.73
3 Caucasian 19.82
4 South_Central_Asian 6.44
5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.9
6 North_African 1.85
7 Paleo_Siberian 0.51
8 Arctic 0.06

[Cumansky]

Khanty are about 50% European, obviously that component is not based on their East Eurasian side which is basically Siberian.

Irish (celticdragongod)
# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 37.69
2 European_Early_Farmers 28.73
3 Caucasian 19.82
4 South_Central_Asian 6.44
5 Ancestral_Altaic 4.9
6 North_African 1.85
7 Paleo_Siberian 0.51
8 Arctic 0.06

Why you show Irish? This has nothing to do with anything, show Khanty result.

Khanty have around 20% West Eurasian haplogroups that is it, from Siberia.

[Zoro]

In the photo I've posted, the "East_Eurasian" includes only Mongoloid components. So in that project, S. Indian is considered West Eurasian(Caucasoid)

So that would mean that Malayans are 82% Caucasoid since they score 82% south Indian . Doesn’t sound right :confused:

I think The only logical explanation is that the south Indian component is almost totally east Eurasian then it would make sense that the Malayans score 82% south Indian

[Annihilus]

https://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2018-10/arsc-sfc101518.php

Scientists found common genes in different peoples of the Ural language family

AKSON RUSSIAN SCIENCE COMMUNICATION ASSOCIATION

The genetic diversity of peoples of the Ural language family living in Europe and Siberia are strongly influenced by a geography. However, the genetics from Estonia and Russia found common genetic component in Ural-speaking populations. Presumably, it originated from West Siberia. This means that the Ural family languages have spread over a wide area due to population migrations.

The Ural family languages are the third after Indo-European and Turkic most common in Northern Eurasia. According to linguists, the Ural family languages were built from a single proto-language 6000-4000 years old, which was divided into two large branches: Finno-Ugric and Samoyed languages. Ural-speaking peoples live on giant territories from Baltics to West Syberia and include Finns and Estonians, Karelians and Hungarians, Mordovian Erzya and Moksha, West Siberian Khanty and Mansi, Nenets and others. Do this different peoples share common roots and biological history? And how did these related languages spread over such a wide territory? This questions are addressed to genetics.

The authors of recent paper in BMC Genome Biology tried to answer them. The international research team was coordinated by the genetics from Estonian Biocenter of the Tartu University, working in long-term cooperation with Russian colleagues from Moscow, Novosibirsk, Ufa and Arkhangelsk. Researchers analyzed the geographical location of the Ural-speaking populations and constructed a map, showing where different languages of the Ural family were spoken.

The scientists for the first time created a database of genetic data for the entire or full genome. The base includes more than 500 thousand positions for representatives of 15 Ural-speaking populations: from Finns to Nenets. Scientists have mapped the position of the Ural-speaking populations in the genetic space of Eurasia. These positions stretched from left to right in accordance with their geography: from west to east. Therefore, the authors concluded that geography is the main factor behind the genetic diversity of Ural-speaking populations.

The researchers also applied another standard analysis method for decomposing the genome into components derived from ancestors. It showed that the majority of the Ural-speaking populations except for Hungarians have a small genetic component in common. Scientists associate its origin with Western Siberia. If such fragments are found in people from different populations, they are likely to have a common ancestor, and if two populations have many common fragments, the are relatives. This way it turned out that many Ural-speaking populations are closer to other Ural-speaking populations, even geographically distant, than to their geographical neighbors who speak other languages.

Thus, Mari and Udmurts were closer to the Khanty and Mansi, living on the other side of the Urals, than to the neighboring Tatars, Bashkirs, Chuvash. At the same time, Finns and Sámi showed greater commonality with the Volga Mari, Komi and Udmurts, and even with West Siberian Khanty and Mansi, than with geographically close Swedes, Latvians, Lithuanians and northern Russians. However, there are exceptions such as Hungarians and Mordovian peoples.

Since the researchers wanted to see if there were any correlations between linguistic, geographic, and genetic data for Ural-speaking populations, they took lexical distances between languages ??(calculated by linguists proportion of common words in a special list of stable vocabulary), geographical distances between populations and, finally, genetic distances between populations, which serve as a measure of genetic similarity. It turned out that all these data types have a positive correlation, which indicates their interdependence.

The common genetic component found in the Ural-speaking populations indicates that they share common history. Apparently, the spread of the Uralic languages ??was associated with the spread of genes or with migrations. Scientists consider the center where the migrating groups originated to be placed in Western Siberia. Thus, in their opinion, the peoples of the Ural linguistic family are linked by genetic roots of Western Siberian origin.

"This is the third joint article by Estonian Biocenter and Russian scientists," commented Dr. Oleg Balanovsky, the head of Genomic Geography Laboratory of the Institute of General Genetics. "The first was devoted to the Turkic-speaking peoples, the second to the Balto-Slavic peoples, and the third to the Ural-speaking ones. In all cases, it was shown that the geographic factor plays the main role in the formation of the gene pool, and linguistic kinship fades into the background. At the same time, the analysis of the Turks and the Ural-speaking populations revealed a common component in their gene pool. This small but real share can be connected with the people through whom these languages ??were spread initially."

"Yet, the article about the Ural-speaking peoples does not answer all questions," continues Oleg Balanovsky. "The thousand-year intrigue remains unresolved: the origin of the Hungarians, who historically and linguistically are descendants of the Magyars, relatives of the Ugrians who conquered the territory of present Hungary in the 9th century. However, genetically modern Hungarians are indistinguishable from their geographical neighbors and do not show similarities with other Ugric peoples (Khanty and Mansi). Perhaps the genetic trail of the Ugric origin of the Hungarians can be traced with the help of ancient DNA. Such a work is already in progress."

https://media.eurekalert.org/multimedia_prod/pub/web/183152_web.jpg

[altaic]

Some nostalgia ;) :D

https://abload.de/img/111zwi6k.png

*Source: https://www.facebook.com/turkishdna/photos/a.517992108558301/745907219100121/?type=3&theater

Can you verify if they include “Ancestral Altaic” into this Mongoloid chart? If they did, I believe they should exclude it. They high likely did not include it but there is always confusion among the members when it comes to Ancestral Altaic. I am one of them..:D
Can you also verify if this total calculation based on Tungus Altaic+Amerindian+East Siberian+Paleo Siberian+Austronesian+South East Asia? (under MDLP K23b)

[Sora]

Can you verify if they include “Ancestral Altaic” into this Mongoloid chart? If they did, I believe they should exclude it. They high likely did not include it but there is always confusion among the members when it comes to Ancestral Altaic. I am one of them..
Can you also verify if this total calculation based on Tungus Altaic+Amerindian+East Siberian+Paleo Siberian+Austronesian+South East Asia? (under MDLP K23b)

Yes, it's not included. Mongoloid admixture is only based on Tungus Altaic+Amerindian+East Siberian+Paleo Siberian+Austronesian+South East Asia

[altaic]

Yes, it's not included. Mongoloid admixture is only based on Tungus Altaic+Amerindian+East Siberian+Paleo Siberian+Austronesian+South East Asia

Thank you. My MDLP K23b (23andme V3) Mongoloid is 4.75. As a southern west of Eastern Anatolian, the chart correlates with average. 4.77 I assume east of Eastern Anatolia has lower value ~ 1-4% (Erzurum, Agri, Ardahan, Mus, Bitlis, Van, Sirnak, Hakkari) , whereas Azerbaijani dominant areas such as Kars and Igdir and west of East Anatolia citis have higher value ~ 4-8%. It would be nice if there is MDLP K23b Turkey city map. Bcz this is not MDLP (https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1Pj2rBe3L-Jf89JFACjTC1hSRfI7EOps-zed1x0FFpbY/edit#gid=0)

BTW my 4.75% Mongoloid details, 5 in a row Mongoloid:cool:

9 Tungus_Altaic 1.9
10 Amerindian 1.11
11 East_Siberian 0.71
12 Paleo_Siberian 0.57
13 Austronesian 0.46

[Chocolate_Hound]

Varies heavily. With Kazakhs and Uzbeks I'd say they are a good 50-70% Mongoloid, and are some of the fairer Turkics. Turkmens and Kyrgyz I'd say are 30-50% Mongoloid but can be much more MENA looking. Tajiks look Mongoloid-admixed but they are an Iranic-speaking peoples. They are pretty close to Tatars who are also a Muslim peoples.

[Sora]

Varies heavily. With Kazakhs and Uzbeks I'd say they are a good 50-70% Mongoloid, and are some of the fairer Turkics. Turkmens and Kyrgyz I'd say are 30-50% Mongoloid but can be much more MENA looking. Tajiks look Mongoloid-admixed but they are an Iranic-speaking peoples. They are pretty close to Tatars who are also a Muslim peoples.


Indeed it's actually;

Uzbeks: 30%-50% Mongoloid
Kazakh & Kyrgyz: 55%-70%
Turkmens: 10%-40%
Uyghur: 40%-55%
Tatar(Volga): 15%-28%
Tatar(Steppe Crimean): 25%-40%
Turkish & Azerbaijani: 3%-20%
Yakuts: 90%-100%