View Full Version : Surprise: Ashkenazi Jews are mostly European !
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 05:38 PM
Ashkenazi Jews arrived in the Rhineland area of Germany some time in the 7th Century. They are not related to the Khazars. But also almost 80% of the entire maternal line is pure European. In other words, Middle Eastern Men "converted" European women to become Jews. (We all know what that means)
That explains why most of them have blue eyes and look White. They are basically Europeans with only a paternal genetic Near East lineage. So according to Jewish Law, they aren't even really Jews!
The 2013 study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England, said that while Ashkenazi Jews have lived in Europe for many centuries, the results of the study using DNA samples show that most European Jews descend from local people who converted to Judaism, not individuals who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago.
Ashkenazi Jews were declared a clear, homogeneous genetic subgroup following a 2006 study. Ashkenazi Jews come from the same genetic group, no matter if their ancestors were from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or another place with a large historical Jewish population. They are all in the same ethnic group.
How could it be that Ashkenazi Jews are just one genetic group? The answer is a relatively simple one: they didn’t reproduce at a noticeable level with others outside their group (not even with other Jewish people). Researchers have shown Ashkenazi Jews were a reproductively isolated population in Europe for about 1000 years.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/ashkenazi-jews-their-origins-may-surprise-you-009924
Annihilus
08-17-2019, 05:47 PM
All Jews are converts if you go back far enough.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 05:48 PM
All Jews are converts if you go back far enough.
Well, partially true. But the origins are the Hebrews. There were 12 tribes of Israel. 10 of them left the Middle East and were scattered all around.
WinterCrusader
08-17-2019, 05:56 PM
That's a nice cope my friend.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 05:56 PM
Ashkenazi Jews arrived in the Rhineland area of Germany some time in the 7th Century. They are not related to the Khazars. But also almost 80% of the entire maternal line is pure European. In other words, Middle Eastern Men "converted" European women to become Jews. (We all know what that means)
That explains why most of them have blue eyes and look White. They are basically Europeans with only a paternal genetic Near East lineage. So according to Jewish Law, they aren't even really Jews!
https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/ashkenazi-jews-their-origins-may-surprise-you-009924
80% European just applies to maternal lineages, that’s only a small segment of someone’s genome. In terms of autosomal admixture Ashkenazi Jews are roughly half European.
Most Ashkenazi Jews do not have blue eyes (Most large surveys come to about 20%). Anyway, true blue eyes is determined by one just one SNP rs12913832 on the 86th intron of the HERC2 gene which contains a silencing sequence preventing the OCA2 gene from functioning as regards to stroma pigmentation.
If you consider a wide range of SNPs you will see that Ashkenazi Jews are not that European.
Figaro
08-17-2019, 06:08 PM
If you say this about Ashkenazim, you must say it about pure Sephardim as well. They're both literally about 90% identical.
And why do people still try to over-"aryanize" the Ashkenazim? I live near many, most of the men look like Jason Alexander and most of the women look like Babbs Streishand (shrug)
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 06:12 PM
If you say this about Ashkenazim, you must say it about pure Sephardim as well. They're both literally about 90% identical.
And why do people still try to over-"aryanize" the Ashkenazim? I live near many, most of the men look like Jason Alexander and most of the women look like Babbs Streishand (shrug)
Meade made another ridiculous thread exaggerating the lightness of Ashkenazi Jews last January.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?274761-Why-do-so-many-Jews-have-Blue-eyes&highlight=Jews+blue+eyes+Ashkenazi
Token
08-17-2019, 06:21 PM
Surprise? This study is from 2013 you imbecile.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 06:27 PM
Surprise? This study is from 2013 you imbecile.
Even so, he is still misinterpreting it.
https://www.livescience.com/40247-ashkenazi-jews-have-european-genes.html
Nowhere is there a reference to Autosomal admixture, while Meade seems to think that it implies that Ashkenazi Jews are mostly European overall. It doesn’t say that.
Bakha
08-17-2019, 06:30 PM
Well. Russian ashkenazi Mikhail Shufutinsky approves this study.
https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/4280135660b6e1783fb41c6e2d9b3e68.jpg
Bakha
08-17-2019, 06:34 PM
Well if you make ashkenazi reference and put it under euro category like 23andme, myheritage, then yeah...but asmixture analysis of ashkenazi shows they re mixed euro-westasian-sw asian people.
Mjolnir
08-17-2019, 06:35 PM
Ashkenazi Jews arrived in the Rhineland area of Germany some time in the 7th Century. They are not related to the Khazars. But also almost 80% of the entire maternal line is pure European. In other words, Middle Eastern Men "converted" European women to become Jews. (We all know what that means)
That explains why most of them have blue eyes and look White. They are basically Europeans with only a paternal genetic Near East lineage. So according to Jewish Law, they aren't even really Jews!
The 2013 study co-author Martin Richards, an archaeogeneticist at the University of Huddersfield in England, said that while Ashkenazi Jews have lived in Europe for many centuries, the results of the study using DNA samples show that most European Jews descend from local people who converted to Judaism, not individuals who left Israel and the Middle East around 2,000 years ago.
Ashkenazi Jews were declared a clear, homogeneous genetic subgroup following a 2006 study. Ashkenazi Jews come from the same genetic group, no matter if their ancestors were from Poland, Russia, Hungary, Lithuania, or another place with a large historical Jewish population. They are all in the same ethnic group.
How could it be that Ashkenazi Jews are just one genetic group? The answer is a relatively simple one: they didn’t reproduce at a noticeable level with others outside their group (not even with other Jewish people). Researchers have shown Ashkenazi Jews were a reproductively isolated population in Europe for about 1000 years.
https://www.ancient-origins.net/human-origins-science/ashkenazi-jews-their-origins-may-surprise-you-009924
Old news.
They are Khazars.
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Mjolnir
08-17-2019, 06:36 PM
If you say this about Ashkenazim, you must say it about pure Sephardim as well. They're both literally about 90% identical.
And why do people still try to over-"aryanize" the Ashkenazim? I live near many, most of the men look like Jason Alexander and most of the women look like Babbs Streishand (shrug)
They are not nearly identical. They don’t even look alike.
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Mjolnir
08-17-2019, 06:37 PM
Well if you make ashkenazi reference and put it under euro category like 23andme, myheritage, then yeah...but asmixture analysis of ashkenazi shows they re mixed euro-westasian-sw asian people.
Lots of Turko-Mongol there though many will deny it. Matters not.
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Gründig
08-17-2019, 06:43 PM
You are obsessed.
Annihilus
08-17-2019, 06:47 PM
https://jewishnews.timesofisrael.com/report-finds-ashkinazi-jews-descended-from-turks/
Report finds Ashkinazi Jews descended from Turks
Persian Jews converted Turks to Judaism to create the rump of what would become today’s Jewish population, DNA research has revealed.
The fascinating insight, which shows that most Ashkenazi Jews descend from Turkey, was made possible by state-of-the-art computer modelling and genetic techniques.
The project, led by Israeli-born Dr Eran Elhaik, even pinpointed Iskenaz, Eskenaz and Ashanaz – three Turkish villages an ancient Silk Road route which still exist today – as part of the original Ashkenazi homeland.
It is the largest genomic study ever carried out on Ashkenazi Jews, and shows that most of today’s population are the descendants of Greeks, Iranians and others who colonised what is now northern Turkey more than 2,000 years ago.
Elhaik shows that locals were converted to Judaism by Jews from Persia, whose empire then home to the world’s largest Jewish communities.
He said the word ‘Ashkenaz’ likely derives from Ashguza, the ancient Assyrian and Babylonian term for Iron Age Eurasian steppeland people known as Scythians.
Concurrent analysis of Yiddish suggests that it was originally a Slavic language which the researchers think was developed by Jewish tradesmen travelling along the Silk Roads linking China and Europe 1,200 years ago.
It was only when the Khazar Empire began to decline around 1,000 years ago that the Jewish converts headed west, into central Europe, coming into contact with German-speaking peoples.
Elhaik and his team from the University of Sheffield publish their findings in scientific journal Genome Biology and Evolution and say their work helps settle an age-old debate about the origins of the 1,000-year old Yiddish language.
“The prevalent view claims Yiddish has a German origin, whereas the opposing view suggests a Slavic origin with strong Iranian and weak Turkic substrata,” they say.
“One of the major difficulties in deciding was the unknown geographical origin of Yiddish speaking Ashkenazic Jews,” they say, but their analysis “demonstrates that Greeks, Romans, Iranians, and Turks exhibit the highest genetic similarity with Ashkenazic Jews”.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 06:48 PM
You are obsessed.
I thought Meade would drop the subject as Profilied became more inactive (and ultimately now permabanned), but I’ve been proven wrong.
I thought Meade would drop the subject as Profilied became more inactive (and ultimately now permabanned), but I’ve been proven wrong.
Who are you, son? You registered this month but know the people's opinions and crazes. Looks suspicious to me. :coffee:
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 07:04 PM
Who are you, son? You registered this month but know the people's opinions and crazes. Looks suspicious to me. :coffee:
Turn that month into a year.
Well. Russian ashkenazi Mikhail Shufutinsky approves this study.
https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/4280135660b6e1783fb41c6e2d9b3e68.jpg
His Middle Eastern ancestry is fucking obvious. No European except for a few Italians looks like that.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 07:08 PM
His Middle Eastern ancestry is fucking obvious. No European except for a few Italians looks like that.
He has those thick orientalid eyelids.
TheOldNorth
08-17-2019, 07:29 PM
All Jews are converts if you go back far enough.
Well I mean I guess, considering it originated as a cult subset of the pagan Canaanite religion
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:41 PM
Surprise? This study is from 2013 you imbecile.
Yeah, cause that was so long ago......
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:42 PM
He has those thick orientalid eyelids.
It's my Native American heritage, not Jew. Jews have closed set eyes and they are beady.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 07:45 PM
Yeah, cause that was so long ago......
The problem is you interpreted the paper as saying something it didn’t.
Nothing was mentioned about autosomal admixture. Autsomally Ashkenazi Jews are only half European.
Gründig
08-17-2019, 07:45 PM
It's my Native American heritage, not Jew. Jews have closed set eyes and they are beady.
Hahahahahahaha
It's a misleading, sensationalist headline about a study that itself stretched such conclusions. However, even we take the study at face value, the headline should really be "80% of Ashkenazi MTDNA is European".
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:47 PM
His Middle Eastern ancestry is fucking obvious. No European except for a few Italians looks like that.
Very few Ashkenazis look like that. Most of them look like this:
https://i2.wp.com/news.utk.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/02/Bialik.png?fit=640%2C427&ssl=1
https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1439,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_1044/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1492196817/articles/2014/08/13/the-legend-with-the-look-remembering-lauren-bacall/140811-bugbee-bacall-tease_tfycav
Red Hair, like King David:
https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/og-jesse-eisenberg-30655.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ep24Z8C-z0M/Vq4oCw9EakI/AAAAAAAAC5g/n5m3HzDAemA/s1600/Seth%2BGreen%2Bjewish%2Bjesus.jpg
Ashkenazi Jews can range from extremely attractive to very hideous- depending. Most of them are in the middle, but they always have facial features that don't quite go together such as closed set eyes, pop out eyes, sharp pointy nose, and big African lips.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 07:47 PM
It's my Native American heritage, not Jew. Jews have closed set eyes and they are beady.
Not talking about you. Talking about Mikhail.
Orientalids have thick eyelids. Mikhail has orientalid influence.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:48 PM
The problem is you interpreted the paper as saying something it didn’t.
Nothing was mentioned about autosomal admixture. Autsomally Ashkenazi Jews are only half European.
They are more than half European if their maternal line is 80% European. That means most likely Middle Eastern men raped.. er, I mean, converted European women into Judaism.
Lemgrant
08-17-2019, 07:49 PM
Old news.
They are Khazars.
Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
No, they are not. Only the ruling elite of Khazar Khaganate converted to Judaism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25079123
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264390976_No_Evidence_from_Genome-Wide_Data_of_a_Khazar_Origin_for_the_Ashkenazi_Jew s
https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:49 PM
Not talking about you. Talking about Mikhail.
Orientalids have thick eyelids. Mikhail has orientalid influence.
Read my other reply with examples. Most Ashkenazis do not look full blown Middle Eastern at all. In fact in some, it's really hard to tell them from fully blooded Euros. Some even have normal noses.
MinervaItalica
08-17-2019, 07:52 PM
His Middle Eastern ancestry is fucking obvious. No European except for a few Italians looks like that.
Cool story.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:53 PM
I can only think of a handful of Ashkenazi Jews that would be mistaken for middle eastern. Most of them look like Full Euros with something "off " about them. That's probably how Hitler could tell. " Achtung! Look at that White Aryran Euro... oh wait.. that nose!"
Dragoon
08-17-2019, 07:55 PM
They are more than half European if their maternal line is 80% European. That means most likely Middle Eastern men raped.. er, I mean, converted European women into Judaism.
They took some shiksas, converted them, and claimed Jews are by matrilineal line. Thats how their numbers grew.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 07:56 PM
Very few Ashkenazis look like that. Most of them look like this:
https://i2.wp.com/news.utk.edu/wp-content/uploads/sites/3/2019/02/Bialik.png?fit=640%2C427&ssl=1
https://img.thedailybeast.com/image/upload/c_crop,d_placeholder_euli9k,h_1439,w_2560,x_0,y_0/dpr_1.5/c_limit,w_1044/fl_lossy,q_auto/v1492196817/articles/2014/08/13/the-legend-with-the-look-remembering-lauren-bacall/140811-bugbee-bacall-tease_tfycav
Red Hair, like King David:
https://www.thefamouspeople.com/profiles/images/og-jesse-eisenberg-30655.jpg
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-ep24Z8C-z0M/Vq4oCw9EakI/AAAAAAAAC5g/n5m3HzDAemA/s1600/Seth%2BGreen%2Bjewish%2Bjesus.jpg
Ashkenazi Jews can range from extremely attractive to very hideous- depending. Most of them are in the middle, but they always have facial features that don't quite go together such as closed set eyes, pop out eyes, sharp pointy nose, and big African lips.
Yes many Ashkenazi Jews pass better in South Europe than the Middle-East.
In pigmentation Ashkenazi Jews are intermediate between Central Europeans and South Italians and Greek Islanders.
However in facial morphology they are intermediate between South Italians /Greek Islanders and Levantines.
This combination leaves many looking still quite Levantine.
Cool story.
I didn't mean to troll, after I posted that I actually thought if there are really Italians that look similar. You know Sikeliot has been saying for years that Sicilians are very similar to Ashkenazim.
They are more than half European if their maternal line is 80% European. That means most likely Middle Eastern men raped.. er, I mean, converted European women into Judaism.
Assuming that uniparentals can be used that way, which you are doing, then 80/2 = 40 < 50. And Germanic Build, if they raped European women, why would those kids be raised as Jews?
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 07:57 PM
The top two could pass as French or Italian. The men in the pictures look more East Euro.
MinervaItalica
08-17-2019, 08:00 PM
Yes many Ashkenazi Jews pass better in South Europe than the Middle-East.
They can pass in whole Europe not only in the South.
Saying Jews are not Middle Eastern = Antisemitic. Saying Jews are Middle Eastern (and therefore not European/white) = also Antisemitic. xD
Saying Jews are not Middle Eastern = Antisemitic. Saying Jews are Middle Eastern (and therefore not European/white) = also Antisemitic. xD
Deciding where Jews cannot live based on their ancestral makeup is Anti-Semitic.
No, they are not. Only the ruling elite of Khazar Khaganate converted to Judaism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25079123
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264390976_No_Evidence_from_Genome-Wide_Data_of_a_Khazar_Origin_for_the_Ashkenazi_Jew s
https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints
Even that might've not happened.
Lemgrant
08-17-2019, 08:07 PM
His Middle Eastern ancestry is fucking obvious. No European except for a few Italians looks like that.
what about some Greeks like Aristotelis Onassis?
https://mknews.eu/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/5cb58ef69a0d0.jpg
Deciding where Jews cannot live based on their ancestral makeup is Anti-Semitic.
Even if one is an actual Semite i.e. Palestinian. I'm not a fan of Palestinians or any Muslims but you guys are the masters of double standard. Let's discontinue the discussion, I don't want the fucking ADL knocking on my door xD
what about some Greeks like Aristotelis Onassis?
I don't know. I guess I should've said some Southern Europeans, not only Italians.
Even if one is an actual Semite i.e. Palestinian. I'm not a fan of Palestinians or any Muslims but you guys are the masters of double standard. Let's discontinue the discussion, I don't want the fucking ADL knocking on my door xD
I'd say you're the master of lying, but it would be false, as anyone can just look up the demographics of Israel and see that plenty of Palestinians live in Israel with Israeli citizenship. I didn't know ADL had a chapter in Russia.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 08:13 PM
They can pass in whole Europe not only in the South.
Lets say the 75th percentile of European Morphology among Ashkenazi Jews is Lombardy. And Lombards are not as Central European looking as Firulians.
An above-average in European Morphology Ashkenazi Jew will typically pass best in Northern Italy.
Lets say the 75th percentile of European Morphology among Ashkenazi Jews is Lombardy. And Lombards are not as Central European looking as Firulians.
An above-average in European Morphology Ashkenazi Jew will most of the Time pass best in Northern Italy.
It's not, nor does phenotype end up working that way.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 08:27 PM
It's not, nor does phenotype end up working that way.
Of course. That was just a made up figure not meant to take meant to be taken literally. It would not be possible to evaluate phenotype that way.
The point I was trying to get across is that Ashkenazi Jews who have a more European Morphology than average still tend to pass better in Northern/Central Italy than Central Europe.
Of course. That was just a made up figure not meant to take meant to be taken literally. It would not be possible to evaluate phenotype that way.
The point I was trying to get across is that Ashkenazi Jews who have a more European Morphology than average tend to pass better in Northern/Central Italy than Central Europe.
That's true.
Token
08-17-2019, 08:31 PM
Lets say the 75th percentile of European Morphology among Ashkenazi Jews is Lombardy. And Lombards are not as Central European looking as Firulians.
An above-average in European Morphology Ashkenazi Jew will typically pass best in Northern Italy.
Most of the European admixture in Ashkenazi Jews is Aegean/Sicilian-like. They probably mixed a lot with Greeks and Romans before heading north.
wvwvw
08-17-2019, 08:42 PM
Well, partially true. But the origins are the Hebrews. There were 12 tribes of Israel. 10 of them left the Middle East and were scattered all around.
The idea of the 12 tribes of Israel is fiction since firstly these tribes were not even decended from Jacob, since the tribe of Dan or Danaoi were Greeks who existed over 200 year before Jacob and are already mentioned as a Greek tribe by Turmoses III in 1500 BC 200 years before Jacob and appear again in Egyptian inscriptions at the time of Ramses III which makes it pretty obvious that none of the 12 tribes of Israel were even related.
Other peoples identities were plagiarised so that the Maccabees could make a false claim to the Romans for the territory by presenting a concocted history.
The Maccabees put the histories of all the other extinct races in Palestine together and invented a unifying narrative. The Dan tribe never moved from Palestine into Egypt. It was Egypt which shifted its borders into Palestine in 1320 BC but after 1193 BC it lost it Palestinian territories, hence the parting of the Red Sea story. Everything west was Egypt and everything east was Palestine. Thus the Danaoi were plagiarised by the bible forgers to invent the tribe of Dan. But the forgers made the mistake of placing them at the time of the expulsion of the Sea Peoples because they saw an Egyptian record in the Library of Alexandria referring to them. Manetho must have also seen an earlier record since he places Danus at the tie of Seti I, but the Greeks had access to the original text because they correctly date Danus and the Danaoi to 1450 BC which is before Abraham, since Danus was a descendent of Io the daughter of Inarchus so it is obvious that the biblical version is a later fiction stealing the identity of a Mycenaean tribe which occupied Palestine from 1450 BC so as to create a false ancestry for the Jews since Danus was the son of Belus the son of Libya the daughter of Epaphus the son of Io and not a son of Jacob. All the archaeology evidence shows a Greek presence in Palestine at the time in question but not one shred of a Jewish presence.
The period of the Hyksos was the time of Noah, who again had his identity plagiarized by Ogyges/Janus. It is clear that the Maccabee took all of these sorties from the Greek translations in the Library of Alexandria and rewrote them so as to invent their Myths and create false ancestors for their master race.
MinervaItalica
08-17-2019, 08:44 PM
Gwyneth Paltrow is Ashkenazi and passes quite well above the Alps.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 08:46 PM
Most of the European admixture in Ashkenazi Jews is Aegean/Sicilian-like. They probably mixed a lot with Greeks and Romans before heading north.
Very true. Jews living in Republican Rome were mostly Greek-Speaking, not coming from Judea itself but other areas of what was Alexander the Great‘s Empire which had more Hellenic influence. These Jews diverged from the ancestors of the Romaniote Jews. Jews who came to Rome latter in Imperial times came from Judea and spoke Aramaic rather than Greek. Ashkenazim/Italkim/Sephardim Jews descend from both waves of Jewish Emigration into Rome.
The first wave had intermixed with Greeks before reaching Rome. When in Rome Jews converted many Roman women and absorbed them into their Community.
Gwyneth Paltrow is Ashkenazi and passes quite well above the Alps.
She's half.
Dawnbringer
08-17-2019, 08:49 PM
Gwyneth Paltrow is Ashkenazi and passes quite well above the Alps.
You Know very well that she is a bad example as she is only half Ashkenazi.
There are of course some full Ashkenazim who pass best in Central or even Northern Europe, they are just few, especially with the latter case.
Kivan
08-17-2019, 08:51 PM
Gwyneth Paltrow is Ashkenazi and passes quite well above the Alps.
Gwyneth Paltrow is mixed, not pure Ashkenazi jew. Ethnicity:
*father – Ashkenazi Jewish
*mother – German, with smaller amounts of Swiss-German, English, Irish
https://ethnicelebs.com/gwyneth-paltrow
And far from looking like an average Ashkenazi Jew(let alone israeli):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE
Funny enough, if i was posting blonde/Nordic Turkish actors(or half Central/Northern European), lots of dipshits here would be attacking me and calling me "OWD" :laugh:
Dragoon
08-17-2019, 08:53 PM
Speaking of Jews
according to EUpedia, Sephardi have slightly more J1 an J2 than Askhenazi (so thats mostly Semitic and Mesopotamia region)
Askhenazi have twice as much E (which is Near East/North Africa)...
shouldnt Sephardi have more E? based on their history in North Africa?
Speaking of Jews
according to EUpedia, Sephardi have slightly more J1 an J2 than Askhenazi (so thats mostly Semitic and Mesopotamia region)
Askhenazi have twice as much E (which is Near East/North Africa)...
shouldnt Sephardi have more E? based on their history in North Africa?
No, because those were picked up from the Levant in both cases.
Gwyneth Paltrow is mixed, not pure Ashkenazi jew. Ethnicity:
*father – Ashkenazi Jewish
*mother – German, with smaller amounts of Swiss-German, English, Irish
https://ethnicelebs.com/gwyneth-paltrow
And far from looking like an average Ashkenazi Jew(let alone israeli):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE
Funny enough, if i was posting blonde/Nordic Turkish actors(or half Central/Northern European), lots of dipshits here would be attacking me and calling me "OWD" :laugh:
Funny enough, in that video, the Ashkenazi interviewer is selecting for those he thinks might be Ashkenazi.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 10:38 PM
The idea of the 12 tribes of Israel is fiction since firstly these tribes were not even decended from Jacob, since the tribe of Dan or Danaoi were Greeks who existed over 200 year before Jacob and are already mentioned as a Greek tribe by Turmoses III in 1500 BC 200 years before Jacob and appear again in Egyptian inscriptions at the time of Ramses III which makes it pretty obvious that none of the 12 tribes of Israel were even related.
Other peoples identities were plagiarised so that the Maccabees could make a false claim to the Romans for the territory by presenting a concocted history.
The Maccabees put the histories of all the other extinct races in Palestine together and invented a unifying narrative. The Dan tribe never moved from Palestine into Egypt. It was Egypt which shifted its borders into Palestine in 1320 BC but after 1193 BC it lost it Palestinian territories, hence the parting of the Red Sea story. Everything west was Egypt and everything east was Palestine. Thus the Danaoi were plagiarised by the bible forgers to invent the tribe of Dan. But the forgers made the mistake of placing them at the time of the expulsion of the Sea Peoples because they saw an Egyptian record in the Library of Alexandria referring to them. Manetho must have also seen an earlier record since he places Danus at the tie of Seti I, but the Greeks had access to the original text because they correctly date Danus and the Danaoi to 1450 BC which is before Abraham, since Danus was a descendent of Io the daughter of Inarchus so it is obvious that the biblical version is a later fiction stealing the identity of a Mycenaean tribe which occupied Palestine from 1450 BC so as to create a false ancestry for the Jews since Danus was the son of Belus the son of Libya the daughter of Epaphus the son of Io and not a son of Jacob. All the archaeology evidence shows a Greek presence in Palestine at the time in question but not one shred of a Jewish presence.
The period of the Hyksos was the time of Noah, who again had his identity plagiarized by Ogyges/Janus. It is clear that the Maccabee took all of these sorties from the Greek translations in the Library of Alexandria and rewrote them so as to invent their Myths and create false ancestors for their master race.
No, it isn't fiction. Germany, for example, as settled by the tribe of Gad. Take it up with God.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 10:42 PM
Gwyneth Paltrow is mixed, not pure Ashkenazi jew. Ethnicity:
*father – Ashkenazi Jewish
*mother – German, with smaller amounts of Swiss-German, English, Irish
https://ethnicelebs.com/gwyneth-paltrow
And far from looking like an average Ashkenazi Jew(let alone israeli):
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HESIFBrjzLE
Funny enough, if i was posting blonde/Nordic Turkish actors(or half Central/Northern European), lots of dipshits here would be attacking me and calling me "OWD" :laugh:
None of the ones in Europe look as dark as that. But ironically, he could pass as an Italian, lol.
Richmondbread
08-17-2019, 10:45 PM
Ashkenazi Jews are definitely Jewish ancestry, but it's nowhere near as much as being full blooded Hebrew. That's why some think they shouldn't even have a right to live in Israel. If they are going by the "one drop" rule, I suppose. I would say, truthfully, that Ashkenazis are half-breeds. Mischlings all the way.
happycow
08-17-2019, 10:57 PM
:ranger
Tauromachos
08-17-2019, 11:34 PM
Very few Ashkenazis look like that. Most of them look like this.....
Or like you
Bakha
08-17-2019, 11:37 PM
Ashkenazi Jews are definitely Jewish ancestry, but it's nowhere near as much as being full blooded Hebrew. That's why some think they shouldn't even have a right to live in Israel. If they are going by the "one drop" rule, I suppose. I would say, truthfully, that Ashkenazis are half-breeds. Mischlings all the way.
lel who are these people to decide where a person with jewish ancestry can or cannot live?
Mjolnir
08-18-2019, 01:13 AM
No, they are not. Only the ruling elite of Khazar Khaganate converted to Judaism.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/25079123
https://www.researchgate.net/publication/264390976_No_Evidence_from_Genome-Wide_Data_of_a_Khazar_Origin_for_the_Ashkenazi_Jew s
https://digitalcommons.wayne.edu/cgi/viewcontent.cgi?article=1040&context=humbiol_preprints
So if only the khaganate converted were they not the same ethnicity as the people they ruled?
Yes; yes they were.
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Mjolnir
08-18-2019, 01:15 AM
Even that might've not happened.
Read the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica.
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Lemgrant
08-18-2019, 01:32 AM
So if only the khaganate converted were they not the same ethnicity as the people they ruled?
Yes; yes they were.
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Yes. When the Khazar Khaganate was defeated, some Khazars, of those who converted to Judaism, managed to escape to the Jewish communities along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. Some of their descendants became famous rabbis. These Khazars who were saved, were absorbed into the Jewish community.
Read the Jewish Encyclopedia, Encyclopedia Judaica.
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I have, years ago: http://www.jewishencyclopedia.com/articles/4279-chazars
A non-peer reviewed article from over a century ago, which doesn't ascribe any Khazar ancestry to Ashkenazim. Are you a black Hebrew Israelite ?
Yes. When the Khazar Khaganate was defeated, some Khazars, of those who converted to Judaism, managed to escape to the Jewish communities along the coast of the Mediterranean Sea. Some of their descendants became famous rabbis. These Khazars who were saved, were absorbed into the Jewish community.
Who were these Rabbis?
Dawnbringer
08-18-2019, 01:46 AM
None of the ones in Europe look as dark as that. But ironically, he could pass as an Italian, lol.
Many Hasidic Ashkenazi Jews who have very little sun exposure are as dark as peninsular Arabs and South Asians. Darker skin appears to be somewhat more common among the females.
https://scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/5b0b0a5f70fc88c3c9d51ea4c6b2fafa/5D89BF0D/t51.2885-15/e35/46511992_558351974683036_2946170736957456384_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com&ig_cache_key=MTkzODg1NDg4NjkzMDQ0ODQ3OA%3D%3D.2
http://d2dhz1u38yt7b4.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screenshot_20190403-215114_Instagram_wm.jpg
https://scontent-frt3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/d6f30414016dbe00b4a8bd724dcca2be/5DA54660/t51.2885-15/e35/64872052_202492597383475_3371927612582289340_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.cdninstagram.com&se=7&ig_cache_key=MjA3Nzg1MTQ5ODM4MTMwNjg1OQ%3D%3D.2
Most Jews do not store fat in their face much, those who do hide the extent of their Jewish facial angles like this woman at wedding:
http://oi64.tinypic.com/2e0u3hd.jpg
Jews features often become more conspicuous with age as shown by this unusually light-pigmented Orthodox Jewish girl:
http://d2dhz1u38yt7b4.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/293016.jpg
https://simchaspot-images.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2015/09/wpid-image1_wm3.jpg?&fit=crop&crop=faces
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 02:53 AM
Ashkenazi Jews are essentially far Southern Europeans genetically like Sicilians, Calabrians and Greek Islanders. Genetics proves this time and time again so there's really no mystery to it.
Ashkenazi Jews are essentially far Southern Europeans genetically like Sicilians, Calabrians and Greek Islanders. Genetics proves this time and time again so there's really no mystery to it.
You mean that many Ashkenazim plot that way. They're not identical genetically.
Many Hasidic Ashkenazi Jews who have very little sun exposure are as dark as peninsular Arabs and South Asians. Darker skin appears to be somewhat more common among the females.
[IMG]https://scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/5b0b0a5f70fc88c3c9d51ea4c6b2fafa/5D89BF0D/t51.2885-15/e35/46511992_558351974683036_2946170736957456384_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-frx5-1.cdninstagram.com&ig_cache_key=MTkzODg1NDg4NjkzMDQ0ODQ3OA%3D%3D.2[/IG]
[IMG]http://d2dhz1u38yt7b4.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2019/04/Screenshot_20190403-215114_Instagram_wm.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]https://scontent-frt3-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/d6f30414016dbe00b4a8bd724dcca2be/5DA54660/t51.2885-15/e35/64872052_202492597383475_3371927612582289340_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-frt3-1.cdninstagram.com&se=7&ig_cache_key=MjA3Nzg1MTQ5ODM4MTMwNjg1OQ%3D%3D.2[/IG]
Most Jews do not store fat in their face much, those who do hide the extent of their Jewish facial angles like this woman at wedding:
[IMG]http://oi64.tinypic.com/2e0u3hd.jpg[/IG]
Jews features often become more conspicuous with age as shown by this unusually light-pigmented Orthodox Jewish girl:
[IMG]http://d2dhz1u38yt7b4.cloudfront.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/05/293016.jpg[/IG]
[IMG]https://simchaspot-images.s3.amazonaws.com/uploads/2015/09/wpid-image1_wm3.jpg?&fit=crop&crop=faces[/IG]
You've managed to beat Germanic Build over there for the weirdest post of the day.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 03:12 AM
You mean that many Ashkenazim plot that way. They're not identical genetically.
Not just many, nearly all do. And not 100% identical, but they have roughly the same components at the same levels. If the majority of European ancestry in Ashkenazis really comes from Romans who were south Italian-like then it's clear Ashkenazis are more European than Hebrew.
Not just many, nearly all do. And not 100% identical, but they have roughly the same components at the same levels. If the majority of European ancestry in Askenazis really comes from Romans who were south Italian-like then it's clear Ashkenazis are more European than Hebrew.
Components in Gedmatch? Haplogroups disprove this. And the plotting itself should tell you that there is a significant Levantine component because Ashkenazim also have North European ancestry and plot near (usually south) of Sicilians in spite of it.
Dawnbringer
08-18-2019, 03:19 AM
Not just many, nearly all do. And not 100% identical, but they have roughly the same components at the same levels. If the majority of European ancestry in Askenazis really comes from Romans who were south Italian-like then it's clear Ashkenazis are more European than Hebrew.
Many cluster closer to Cretans. And they are generally closer to East Sicilians than West Sicilians.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 03:22 AM
Components in Gedmatch? Haplogroups disprove this. And the plotting itself should tell you that there is a significant Levantine component because Ashkenazim also have North European ancestry and plot near (usually south) of Sicilians in spite of it.
Yes, it's more useful to look at autosomal results than haplogroups. Ashkenazis have about as much North European ancestry as Sicilians. It's reasonable to think they might have got most of it indirectly from the same source rather than actual mixing in Germany or East Europe considering even Italian Jews plot with Sicilians and Calabrians.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 03:25 AM
Many cluster closer to Cretans. And they are generally closer to East Sicilians than West Sicilians.
True, but that still backs up my point. There's really no way that Ashkenazis are majority Hebrew. Probably 40% at most.
Yes, it's more useful to look at autosomal results than haplogroups. Ashkenazis have about as much North European ancestry as Sicilians. It's reasonable to think they might have got most of it indirectly from the same source rather than actual mixing in Germany or East Europe considering even Italian Jews plot with Sicilians and Calabrians.
You're arguing in circles. I'm telling you that autosomal plotting when combined with knowledge of North European ancestry (haplos, history, IBD, and every study on the subject) is what yields the accurate conclusion instead of just using autosomal results and then you jump back to autosomal results. You were stretching the truth when you said Ashkenazim plot like Sicilians, but throwing Italian Jews in there, you're simply revealing your agenda.
True, but that still backs up my point. There's really no way that Ashkenazis are majority Hebrew. Probably 40% at most.
Try - at least:
https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article/figure/image?size=large&id=info:doi/10.1371/journal.pgen.1006644.g007
Dawnbringer
08-18-2019, 03:40 AM
Yes, it's more useful to look at autosomal results than haplogroups. Ashkenazis have about as much North European ancestry as Sicilians. It's reasonable to think they might have got most of it indirectly from the same source rather than actual mixing in Germany or East Europe considering even Italian Jews plot with Sicilians and Calabrians.
One model has Ashkenazi Jews as 10.83% Cypriot + 35% Italy Medieval Collegno + 42.5% Levant BA North + 11.67% Polish. The Levant BA North component notably greater in Ashkenazi Jews than Sicilians, but at the same time the Polish component in Ashkenazi Jews is notably larger than Sicilians.
With other Western Jews the Polish component is not higher than Sicilians.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 03:41 AM
You're arguing in circles. I'm telling you that autosomal plotting when combined with knowledge of North European ancestry (haplos, history, IBD, and every study on the subject) is what yields the accurate conclusion instead of just using autosomal results and then you jump back to autosomal results. You were stretching the truth when you said Ashkenazim plot like Sicilians, but throwing Italian Jews in there, you're simply revealing your agenda.
No, I wasn't stretching the truth at all. Many Ashkenazi are actually closer to Sicilians then they are to Sephardic Jews. If Ashkenazi were really 50% Levantine, 10% North European and 40% South Italian-like, they'd plot south of where they actually do. Also, everyone seems to ignore the fact that there weren't just conversion in the European part of the Roman Empire but also in the MENA provinces. Who's to say that much of the Levantine ancestry in Jews doesn't go back to Syrian converts in the early centuries AD rather than to the time of Moses or King David?
Dawnbringer
08-18-2019, 03:52 AM
No, I wasn't stretching the truth at all. Many Ashkenazi are actually closer to Sicilians then they are to Sephardic Jews. If Ashkenazi were really 50% Levantine, 10% North European and 40% South Italian-like, they'd plot south of where they actually do. Also, everyone seems to ignore the fact that there weren't just conversion in the European part of the Roman Empire but also in the MENA provinces. Who's to say that much of the Levantine ancestry in Jews doesn't go back to Syrian converts in the early centuries AD rather than to the time of Moses or King David?
Some of the early Greek-speaking settlers to Rome came from Hellenized MENA areas like Cyrene or Antioch rather than Greece itself.
It is possible they acquired some native non-Greek admixture there.
No, I wasn't stretching the truth at all. Many Ashkenazi are actually closer to Sicilians then they are to Sephardic Jews. If Ashkenazi were really 50% Levantine, 10% North European and 40% South Italian-like, they'd plot south of where they actually do. Also, everyone seems to ignore the fact that there weren't just conversion in the European part of the Roman Empire but also in the MENA provinces. Who's to say that much of the Levantine ancestry in Jews doesn't go back to Syrian converts in the early centuries AD rather than to the time of Moses or King David?
Which Sephardic Jews and why is this relevant? Tell me how Ashkenazim end up being Roman converts, but not Sephardim. This will be interesting. You're assuming that all of European Mediternnean ancestry in Ashkenazim is South Italian-like and you're taking the lowest estimate of North European ancestry. As for early MENA converts, no one wanted to pay the extra taxes and no one wants to get circumcised. You began with arguing European ancestry and now you're jumping to anything non-Judean. As for female converts, the main MENA MTDNA I recall among Ashkenazim are HV1b2, U7-something, and R0-something. HV1b2 is found in Ashkenazim with the closest/identical lineage in Georgian Jews and Iraqi Jews. Ashkenazim and the latter separated early on. Therefore, this is unlikely to have come from a Roman Era Syrian or w/e woman. It's simply not found among them. The latter are found among Samaritans, with U7, like HV1b2, found in Mizrachim.
PaleoEuropean
08-18-2019, 04:09 AM
True, but that still backs up my point. There's really no way that Ashkenazis are majority Hebrew. Probably 40% at most.
To be fair most "Europeans" have probably less than 40% actual European HG admixture, who is pure anything or where they are supposed to be? Most the Euro Genome is Mongoloid and Med
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 04:21 AM
Which Sephardic Jews and why is this relevant?
Well it's relevant because you said I was somehow stretching the truth when I said said Ashkenazi cluster with Sicilians.
Tell me how Ashkenazim end up being Roman converts, but not Sephardim.
They both must be predominantly descended from Roman converts if that's really the source of most of their European ancestry.
You're assuming that all of European Mediternnean ancestry in Ashkenazim is South Italian-like
South Italian or Greek/Greek Islander-like, yes. What else would it be?
and you're taking the lowest estimate of North European ancestry.
10% is the estimate I most commonly see given.
As for early MENA converts, no one wanted to pay the extra taxes and no one wants to get circumcised.
So what about all the Roman converts then?
As for female converts
Or male. Much of Ashkenazi Y-DNA is common in Middle Easterners in general.
the main MENA MTDNA I recall among Ashkenazim are HV1b2, U7-something, and R0-something. HV1b2 is found in Ashkenazim with the closest/identical lineage in Georgian Jews and Iraqi Jews. Ashkenazim and the latter separated early on. Therefore, this is unlikely to have come from a Roman Era Syrian or w/e woman. It's simply not found among them. The latter are found among Samaritans, with U7, like HV1b2, found in Mizrachim.
I don't know enough about their MtDNA to comment but most are K1a1b1a, K1a9 and K2a2 right? where does this come from exactly? It seems to me that autosomal results don't always match what you'd expect from the haplogroups.
Dawnbringer
08-18-2019, 04:51 AM
I can‘t wait until Meade Skelton returns to this thread.
Well it's relevant because you said I was somehow stretching the truth when I said said Ashkenazi cluster with Sicilians.
They both must be predominantly descended from Roman converts if that's really the source of most of their European ancestry.
Congratulations, you just fell into my trap. Tell me how Ashkenazim ended up plotting closer to Sicilians than Sephardim and recall what you said about North European ancestry in Ashkenazim. And you are stretching, as clusterwise, you can see a difference. Look at the k15 map for example. Nevermind that you're ignoring the MENA influence in Sicily.
South Italian or Greek/Greek Islander-like, yes. What else would it be?
Central/North Italian, French, Spanish etc. All these show up for me autosomally and you love autosomal results. Also, did you fail to see the graphic I posted from a study? By the time of the main admixture event, Central and North Italians were no longer South Italian-like.
10% is the estimate I most commonly see given.
The graphic I posted didn't even include that in the range. You didn't address it, nor incorporate it in your analysis.
So what about all the Roman converts then?
Almost entirely women.
Or male. Much of Ashkenazi Y-DNA is common in Middle Easterners in general.
The most comprehensive site on this found 18% of Ashkenazi YDNA to be European. https://jewishdna.net/
I don't know enough about their MtDNA to comment but most are K1a1b1a, K1a9 and K2a2 right? where does this come from exactly? It seems to me that autosomal results don't always match what you'd expect from the haplogroups.
K does make up a large chunk. Are those K clades more common among Sicilians/South Italians than other Italians or other Europeans? The way Ashkenazim plot isn't far off the narrative I'm presenting.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 06:08 AM
K does make up a large chunk. Are those K clades more common among Sicilians/South Italians than other Italians or other Europeans? The way Ashkenazim plot isn't far off the narrative I'm presenting.
They aren't common in non-Jews in general. Doesn't seem to match with any theory presented based on autosomal DNA. They're probably over-represented in Ashkenazi due to a genetic bottleneck.
J. Ketch
08-18-2019, 06:29 AM
From a phenotypical standpoint it makes sense that Ashkenazi's are some roughly equal mixture of Levantine Jews and North Italians + German/Slavic. From a logical and historical standpoint though it seems difficult to reconcile. How did they bypass mixing with Southern Italians (who were supposedly what most Romans looked like then), and why was their supposed mixing event hundreds of years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, when their Jewish side is almost entirely paternal? So these Jews didn't mix for hundreds of years in Imperial and post-Imperial Rome (where did all their women come from?), then for some reason in the 600s/700s the men alone all migrated to Northern Italy and started mass race-mixing with the local women, and they were just allowed to do this? Did they have some kind of army?
Occam's razor points to them being predominantly converted South Italians/Romans/Greeks, and their relatively lighter pigmentation can be explained by selection in their small bottleneck population plus Germanic/Slavic admixture.
Mingle
08-18-2019, 06:32 AM
Even that might've not happened.
What makes you say that?
They aren't common in non-Jews in general. Doesn't seem to match with any theory presented based on autosomal DNA. They're probably over-represented in Ashkenazi due to a genetic bottleneck.
I'm betting that K1a1b1a will turn out to French/North Iberian. If not, then Northwest Italian. With a slight possibility that it's German/Austrian or Greek.
What makes you say that?
No evidence found of any Khazar influence on modern day Jews. And the historical evidence of a Khazar conversion is questionable:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PYbycYgjnSU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=05cn9O1RNA0
He's the only serious historian in recent years to have looked at it. Shlomo Sand? This isn't his area and he chose to publish a book for laymen instead of going through peer-review. You can guess why. Meanwhile, Stampfer did go through an academic journal: https://www.jstor.org/stable/10.2979/jewisocistud.19.3.1?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Mingle
08-18-2019, 06:56 AM
From a phenotypical standpoint it makes sense that Ashkenazi's are some roughly equal mixture of Levantine Jews and North Italians + German/Slavic. From a logical and historical standpoint though it seems difficult to reconcile. How did they bypass mixing with Southern Italians (who were supposedly what most Romans looked like then), and why was their supposed mixing event hundreds of years after the fall of the Western Roman Empire, when their Jewish side is entirely almost entirely paternal? So these Jews didn't mix for hundreds of years in Imperial and post-Imperial Rome (where did all their women come from?), then for some reason in the 600s/700s the men alone all migrated to Northern Italy and started mass race-mixing with the local women, and they were just allowed to do this? Did they have some kind of army?
Occam's razor points to them being predominantly converted South Italians/Romans/Greeks, and their relatively lighter pigmentation can be explained by selection in their small bottleneck population plus Germanic/Slavic admixture.
But if they're mostly descended from Roman/Greek converts, then why is the majority of their Y-DNA West Asian? It could be possible for them to be of mostly Roman/Greek ancestry (not saying they are) without them necessarily being converts, but more that they assimilated by marrying into the local population.
The relatively lighter pigmentation may be from inbreeding. The Kalash, Druze, Burusho, and a few other groups look different from their neighboring populations despite not being genetically distinct as a result of inbreeding. Inbreeding tends to select for recessive traits such as lighter features.
Nevermind that you're ignoring the MENA influence in Sicily.
The European influence in the Levant probably cancels out the MENA influence in Sicily.
The European influence in the Levant probably cancels out the MENA influence in Sicily.
This is silly.
1. It isn't close to being true.
2. Even if it was, Jews would also then have it and then it simply doesn't matter. If some Europeans moved into ancient Israel, their descendants are native Jews. I bet both Jews and Palestinians have some Minoan and Mycenaean blood. If you're talking about the crusades, however, their genetic impact was neglegible in Muslim Levantines, practically absent in Lebanese Christians, and entirely absent in Samaritans. The latter 2 groups are normally used to gauge the Levantine autosomal component in Ashkenazim when modelling using modern populations.
J. Ketch
08-18-2019, 07:18 AM
But if they're mostly descended from Roman/Greek converts, then why is the majority of their Y-DNA West Asian? It could be possible for them to be of mostly Roman/Greek ancestry (not saying they are) without them necessarily being converts, but more that they assimilated by marrying into the local population.
The relatively lighter pigmentation may be from inbreeding. The Kalash, Druze, Burusho, and a few other groups look different from their neighboring populations despite not being genetically distinct as a result of inbreeding. Inbreeding tends to select for recessive traits such as lighter features.
That their Y-DNA is mostly West Asian is not surprising at all. That's the founder effect plus the fact that West Asian Y-DNA was highly common in Italy outside of the Jewish migration. By converted I basically meant married into the local population who were then converted, that was probably the wrong word to use.
That their Y-DNA is mostly West Asian is not surprising at all. That's the founder effect plus the fact that West Asian Y-DNA was highly common in Italy outside of the Jewish migration. By converted I basically meant married into the local population who were then converted, that was probably the wrong word to use.
When you look at the following: TMRCA dates for those YDNA lines, presence of the same YDNA in the middle east, the fact that they're long, thin lines (implying the it was a Jewish lineage originally that went through Europe as opposed to subclade of a MENA lineage that got to Italy and branched off to Jews), it becomes insanely unlikely that these lineages were picked up in Italy.
Mingle
08-18-2019, 07:36 AM
This is silly.
1. It isn't close to being true.
2. Even if it was, Jews would also then have it and then it simply doesn't matter. If some Europeans moved into ancient Israel, their descendants are native Jews. I bet both Jews and Palestinians have some Minoan and Mycenaean blood. If you're talking about the crusades, however, their genetic impact was neglegible in Muslim Levantines, practically absent in Lebanese Christians, and entirely absent in Samaritans. The latter 2 groups are normally used to gauge the Levantine autosomal component in Ashkenazim when modelling using modern populations.
True, I overlooked that bit. If Arab Levantines have it, then so should Jews and it wouldn't matter. In that case, MENA influence in deep Southern Euros should be looked at here. Also, I think the MENA influence from Hellenized/Romanized West Asians that migrated to Europe is usually overlooked and people tend to act like the MENA influence is exclusively from Arabs/Moors.
And I wasn't thinking about the Crusaders, but Minoan/Mycenaean and Roman blood.
That their Y-DNA is mostly West Asian is not surprising at all. That's the founder effect plus the fact that West Asian Y-DNA was highly common in Italy outside of the Jewish migration. By converted I basically meant married into the local population who were then converted, that was probably the wrong word to use.
When you look at the following: TMRCA dates for those YDNA lines, presence of the same YDNA in the middle east, the fact that they're long, thin lines (implying the it was a Jewish lineage originally that went through Europe as opposed to subclade of a MENA lineage that got to Italy and branched off to Jews), it becomes insanely unlikely that these lineages were picked up in Italy.
True, I overlooked that bit. If Arab Levantines have it, then so should Jews and it wouldn't matter. In that case, MENA influence in deep Southern Euros should be looked at here. Also, I think the MENA influence from Hellenized/Romanized West Asians that migrated to Europe is usually overlooked and people tend to act like the MENA influence is exclusively from Arabs/Moors.
And I wasn't thinking about the Crusaders, but Minoan/Mycenaean and Roman blood.
Many aren't aware that a good portion of MENA influence on Sicilians and other South Italians is from Jews. Of the Jews who remained (converted) within the area of Kingdom of Sicily, under Spanish control, constituted about 6% of the population. Most Jews also left the religion during Roman times, so that is also an additional MENA source. For Sicily and South Italy, I bet Jews make up the majority of their most recent MENA admixture.
J. Ketch
08-18-2019, 07:50 AM
When you look at the following: TMRCA dates for those YDNA lines, presence of the same YDNA in the middle east, the fact that they're long, thin lines (implying the it was a Jewish lineage originally that went through Europe as opposed to subclade of a MENA lineage that got to Italy and branched off to Jews), it becomes insanely unlikely that these lineages were picked up in Italy.
I don't doubt the Y-DNA is almost entirely Jewish in origin.
Scandal
08-18-2019, 08:06 AM
Surprise? This study is from 2013 you imbecile.
Why so rude? The thread still got over 100 replies.
Tauromachos
08-18-2019, 02:15 PM
Ashkenazi Jews are essentially far Southern Europeans genetically like Sicilians, Calabrians and Greek Islanders. Genetics proves this time and time again so there's really no mystery to it.
Yeah but Greek Islanders do not look like that
I mean like the people posted in the pics by dawnbringer
To be honest some of the darker ones wouldn't even be typical for Cyprus and some of the light ones are to pale,nordish looking
to pass
Token
08-18-2019, 03:23 PM
True, I overlooked that bit. If Arab Levantines have it, then so should Jews and it wouldn't matter. In that case, MENA influence in deep Southern Euros should be looked at here. Also, I think the MENA influence from Hellenized/Romanized West Asians that migrated to Europe is usually overlooked and people tend to act like the MENA influence is exclusively from Arabs/Moors.
And I wasn't thinking about the Crusaders, but Minoan/Mycenaean and Roman blood.
South Italians and Greek Islanders are notably similar to Mycenaeans, there is no need for much MENA admixture there.
Token
08-18-2019, 03:27 PM
This is silly.
1. It isn't close to being true.
2. Even if it was, Jews would also then have it and then it simply doesn't matter. If some Europeans moved into ancient Israel, their descendants are native Jews. I bet both Jews and Palestinians have some Minoan and Mycenaean blood. If you're talking about the crusades, however, their genetic impact was neglegible in Muslim Levantines, practically absent in Lebanese Christians, and entirely absent in Samaritans. The latter 2 groups are normally used to gauge the Levantine autosomal component in Ashkenazim when modelling using modern populations.
Not 'some'. Western Jews are, in all likelihood, mostly of Myceanaean stock.
Smeagol
08-18-2019, 04:54 PM
Yeah but Greek Islanders do not look like that
I mean like the people posted in the pics by dawnbringer
To be honest some of the darker ones wouldn't even be typical for Cyprus and some of the light ones are to pale,nordish looking
to pass
Yes, but this thread is about genetics.
Not 'some'. Western Jews are, in all likelihood, mostly of Myceanaean stock.
Entertain me.
Richmondbread
08-18-2019, 11:25 PM
Simple is better, and these genetic findings confirm what most people believed all along. Ashkenazi Jews are not fully Euro, and are not fully Levant. They are essentially Euro mutts with strong Euro Admixture and half Middle Eastern on another line. This would make the most sense. And if that's true, they aren't complete frauds, but they also aren't as "Jewish" as they like to claim.
Tauromachos
08-18-2019, 11:25 PM
@Richmondbread
Why the thumbs down you imbecile?
Since they are mostly European why should be a problem for you to look like one?
Richmondbread
08-18-2019, 11:27 PM
@Richmondbread
Why the thumbs down you imbecile?
Since they are mostly European why should be a problem for you to look like one?
Because I don't look like one. Or explain how I would look like one. They are still rather inbred and have ambiguously middle eastern influence.
Dawnbringer
08-19-2019, 12:52 AM
Because I don't look like one. Or explain how I would look like one. They are still rather inbred and have ambiguously middle eastern influence.
There are almost no Hasidic Jewish men who have your Germanic build.
They tend to be much frailer.
However this Hasidic Jewish Woman second from the left looks like Profilied‘s/Etain‘s old black-and-white profile picture.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcQYz1BJtVVf_23-EYtZkqSzT-WaYEattbYe-FtdP3KibzNEe5J2
Ayetooey
08-19-2019, 12:53 AM
I'm glad you've accepted your Jewish admix and your hebrew descended phenotype.
Unknown European
11-08-2020, 03:39 PM
Speaking of Jews
according to EUpedia, Sephardi have slightly more J1 an J2 than Askhenazi (so thats mostly Semitic and Mesopotamia region)
Askhenazi have twice as much E (which is Near East/North Africa)...
shouldnt Sephardi have more E? based on their history in North Africa?
Actually It appears J1 has higher frequencies in Ashkenazi Jews while J2 has higher frequencies Sephardi Jews. a Sephardi Jew is not the same as a North African Jew. Plenty of Sephardic Jews have no origins in North Africa. Sephardic Jews lived in Italy, Greece, Bulgaria, Serbia, Turkey, Netherlands, England, Syria, Bosnia and Herzegovina, Lebanon, Palestine/Israel, Romania, Belgium, France, and Germany in addition to North Africa
Unknown European
11-08-2020, 05:30 PM
I'm betting that K1a1b1a will turn out to French/North Iberian. If not, then Northwest Italian. With a slight possibility that it's German/Austrian or Greek.
I belong to K1a1b1a it is probably Southern/Western European in origin. Or from the North-West or North-Central Mediterranean. It is also shared with Sephardic Jews and it doesn't seem to be related to contact between the two rather the sharing of the same ancestors prior to the existence of Ashkenazi and Sephardic rites but also after our ancestors migrated to Europe. It seems to have been most likely recruited in Southern France or maybe North/Central Italy like around Tuscany. a lock of hair that traditionally belonged to Mary Madelene apparently belonged to K1a1b1a the lock of her hair was from Provence in Southern France. The lock of hair could not have possibly belonged to Mary but I believe it likely belonged to a South French Jewish women who maybe was thought to be a descendent of her or something and maybe that's why the hair traditionally belonged to Mary Magdalene. it is my gut feeling that my haplogroup entered the Jewish population through a early medieval South French Jewish community that recruited a local women or maybe a couple women and her descendants ended up with both the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews but much more ended up with the Ashkenazi.
On a less related note a lot of people seem to falsely assume that because Ashkenazi Jews show less genetic distance from Southern Italians and Sicilians that the European admixture is mostly from Southern Italians and Sicilians but this is probably very false. People need to learn that just because Ashkenazi are genetically more similar to Southern Italians and Sicilians then Northern and Central Italians it doesn't mean that most of our ancestry is Southern Italian and Sicilian our closest MTDNA matches that are not from European Jews are far more often from Central/North Italy and Southern France then Southern Italy and Sicily.
a lock of hair that traditionally belonged to Mary Madelene apparently belonged to K1a1b1a the lock of her hair was from Provence in Southern France. The lock of hair could not have possibly belonged to Mary but I believe it likely belonged to a South French Jewish women who maybe was thought to be a descendent of her or something and maybe that's why the hair traditionally belonged to Mary Magdalene. it is my gut feeling that my haplogroup entered the Jewish population through a early medieval South French Jewish community that recruited a local women or maybe a couple women and her descendants ended up with both the Ashkenazi and Sephardi Jews but much more ended up with the Ashkenazi.
Where did you originally read this?
I'm betting that K1a1b1a will turn out to French/North Iberian. If not, then Northwest Italian. With a slight possibility that it's German/Austrian or Greek.
Update: K1a1b1a has been found in Pashtuns. It also exists in an Iraqi Jewish line.
Odelia
12-01-2023, 05:19 AM
After the october 7 attacks, and with all the news focused there, I started to notice that many Israelis looked pretty european, like southern european or southeastern, albeit with some ''off'' semitic features. They looked pretty out of place in the Levant. It's fair to say that ashkenazis are half europeans (russian, lithuanian, polish, etc) and half Hebrew. That's why they look white. So it's fair to say that they're as native to Europe just as much as they are to Israel. Israeli president Isaac Herzog is of Jewish Irish descent and he looks more northern european than he does jewish. Many ashkenazi jews are just 40% jewish at most (or half Jewish)!
Scarlett Johansen is half Swedish, half Ashkenazi:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Scarlett_Johansson_2003.jpg
English of eastern euro jewish descent:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Jason_at_golf.jpg
Ben Shapiro looks Greek to me and I can picture him as ancient roman as well:
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/42913418281_3a785b75ed_k-1024x682.jpg
Mortimer
12-01-2023, 06:59 AM
After the october 7 attacks, and with all the news focused there, I started to notice that many Israelis looked pretty european, like southern european or southeastern, albeit with some ''off'' semitic features. They looked pretty out of place in the Levant. It's fair to say that ashkenazis are half europeans (russian, lithuanian, polish, etc) and half Hebrew. That's why they look white. So it's fair to say that they're as native to Europe just as much as they are to Israel. Israeli president Isaac Herzog is of Jewish Irish descent and he looks more northern european than he does jewish. Many ashkenazi jews are just 40% jewish at most (or half Jewish)!
Scarlett Johansen is half Swedish, half Ashkenazi:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/db/Scarlett_Johansson_2003.jpg
English of eastern euro jewish descent:
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b4/Jason_at_golf.jpg
Ben Shapiro looks Greek to me and I can picture him as ancient roman as well:
https://www.thepublicdiscourse.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/05/42913418281_3a785b75ed_k-1024x682.jpg
I agree and they are as native to Europe as they are to Israel. Stop Anti-Semitism and eternal persecution of jews of the "eternal jew". Enough is Enough.
renaissance12
12-01-2023, 07:18 AM
I agree and they are as native to Europe as they are to Israel. Stop Anti-Semitism and eternal persecution of jews of the "eternal jew". Enough is Enough.
I think you have no idea about the jews mentality....
I think you have no idea about the jews mentality....
Not everybody can be so anti-racist as Italians
Not everybody can be so loyal to the host nation as the Catholic Church
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