Indian middle caste averages by State (S Indian, W Eurasian, and E Eurasian) [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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Thambi

08-18-2019, 12:43 AM

These are averages of Indian MIDDLE castes from each state or the group average based on harappa or certain individual samples. For some states there were no harappan averages so i used individual samples posted on forums. Assam, himachal pradesh, and chattisgarh are estimated based on individual forum users and they're middle castes anyways.

South Indian
https://i.imgur.com/1HE3YmQ.png

West Eurasian(Baloch, Caucasian, Northeast Euro, Med, SW asian)
https://i.imgur.com/QBqkTFB.png

East Eurasian (NE/SE asian, Siberian, American, Beringian)
https://i.imgur.com/GVOHV7K.png

Mingle

08-18-2019, 12:54 AM

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:08 AM

Isn't the East Eurasian a bit high? My guess is that the East Eurasian isn't purely EE but includes some West Eurasian due to having some ANE admixture.

By the way, can you give some examples of Indian middle castes?

I think Beringian might be ANE mixed but the other components like Northeast/Southeast asian, siberian, and american might be pure east eurasian. some groups get 1-2% beringian but central indian states and eastern states for example mostly get ne/se/siberian shift.

these are the populations i used
pops used
Kashmir = Kashmiri avg (harappa)
Punjab = Jatt sikhs
Haryana = Haryana Jatts
Himachal = Kenji (himachal rajput)
Uttarakhand = Uttaranchal brahmin but they make up 20% of that state's population so fairly representative
Rajasthan = rajasthani rajput
Gujarat = gujarati avg.
UP = kshatriya
Kerala = nairs
bengal = bengali avg.
bihar = bihari avg.
assam = jortita (AG. user)
sikkim = bhutia
arunachal pradesh = nysha
mizoram, manipur, tripura = burmanese
Meghalaya = khasi
Chattisgarh= Arlus (Ag. user)
Orissa = Bengali/Oriya sample (HRP0050)
Jharkhand = Eastern UP/Jharkhand sample (HRP0313)
Andhra, Karnataka,tamilnadu = averages
Maharashtra,Goa = Marathi speaking (HRP0407)
Madhya Pradesh = Madhya Pradesh/Uttar pradesh sample (HRP0319)

Not a Cop

08-18-2019, 01:13 AM

Why is that state in the East is so dramatically different to others?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:20 AM

Why is that state in the East is so dramatically different to others?

That's the Northeast region and they're predominantly mongoloid in their genetic makeup. Historically they weren't really part of the general indian subcontinent (except for Assam, central northeastern state). They had some indic influence for sure, as you can see with their south indian percentages and west eurasian. Even burmese and tibetans do. But genetically, culturally, linguistically, etc they're similar to eastern asians like Tibetan, Southern Chinese, and Burmese populations. The northern state called Uttarakhand has significant mongoloid as well on average from nearby Tibet.

Mingle

08-18-2019, 01:25 AM

Why is that state in the East is so dramatically different to others?

They're Southeast Asians and mainly speak Tibeto-Burman languages (rather than Indo-Aryan/Dravidian languages) and are only part of India cause of British colonialism.

That's the Northeast region and they're predominantly mongoloid in their genetic makeup. Historically they weren't really part of the general indian subcontinent (except for Assam, central northeastern state). They had some indic influence for sure, as you can see with their south indian percentages and west eurasian. Even burmese and tibetans do. But genetically, culturally, linguistically, etc they're similar to eastern asians like tibetan, Southern Chinese, and Burmese populations. The northern state called Uttarakhand has significant mongoloid as well on average from nearby Tibet.

Its interesting that Khas people from Uttarakhand have notably more EE than Khas people from Nepal. If I had to take a guess, Uttarakhand is somewhat genetically diverse and they happened to take a sample from the most EE-shifted part of UK (northeast UK?). That's the only way I can explain the 20%+ difference between Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh,

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:34 AM

They're Southeast Asians and mainly speak Tibeto-Burman languages (rather than Indo-Aryan/Dravidian languages) and are only part of India cause of British colonialism.

British gave them independence to do whatever actually. They just joined india after independence, either by force or will. They fit better in india than in china or burma anyways given their decent affinity with indic culture, especially assam.

Its interesting that Khas people from Uttarakhand have notably more EE than Khas people from Nepal. If I had to take a guess, Uttarakhand is somewhat genetically diverse and they happened to take a sample from the most EE-shifted part of UK (northeast UK?). That's the only way I can explain the 20%+ difference between Uttarakhand and Himachal Pradesh,

I think himachal is more similar to kashmiri paharis an rajputs. The tibetan groups there didnt mingle much i think with the indo aryan populations but in uttarakhand i think its a cocktail lol. I mean LOL its a brahmin with 30% mongoloid, similar to a nepali chhetri. I can only imagine how the rajputs/kshatriyas score. I have one bisht sample, uttarakhand rajput, with over 60% tibetan shift in oracles. Not sure how representative that individual is so thats why i didnt use that sample. Its crazy actually. MDL told me kinnaur region has more east asian mixed folks compared to rest of pahari region.

# Population Percent
1 NE-Asian 47.64
2 S-Indian 20.28
3 Baloch 13.74
4 SE-Asian 5.54
5 Siberian 5.11
6 NE-Euro 4.68
7 Caucasian 1.78
8 SW-Asian 0.85
9 Papuan 0.29
10 Pygmy 0.06
11 American 0.02
12 Beringian 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 nepalese-b (xing) 8.97
2 garo (chaubey) 24.11
3 burmanese (chaubey) 24.51
4 uyghur (hgdp) 26.91
5 nepalese-c (xing) 27.6
6 hazara (hgdp) 28.88
7 tu (hgdp) 30.37
8 mongola (hgdp) 30.76
9 xibo (hgdp) 31.28
10 naxi (hgdp) 31.94
11 yi (hgdp) 32.52
12 kyrgyz (hodoglugil) 33.62
13 kyrgyz (xing) 34.11
14 japanese (hgdp) 34.34
15 khasi (chaubey) 34.39
16 tibet (simonson) 34.92
17 kazakh (harappa) 35.16
18 hezhen (hgdp) 35.75
19 uzbek (behar) 35.83
20 daur (hgdp) 36.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.2% tu (hgdp) + 34.8% kanjar (metspalu) @ 2.62
2 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% dharkar (metspalu) @ 2.64
3 64.8% tu (hgdp) + 35.2% srivastava (reich) @ 2.65
4 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% bihari (harappa) @ 2.69
5 64.6% tu (hgdp) + 35.4% ap-brahmin (xing) @ 2.69
6 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyengar-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.74
7 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% up-muslim (metspalu) @ 2.74
8 64.9% tu (hgdp) + 35.1% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) @ 2.75
9 56.9% nepalese-c (xing) + 43.1% han-nchina (hgdp) @ 2.87
10 65.1% tu (hgdp) + 34.9% tharu (metspalu) @ 2.92
11 64.7% tu (hgdp) + 35.3% iyer-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.98
12 53.7% nepalese-c (xing) + 46.3% naxi (hgdp) @ 3
13 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 3.03
14 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% gujarati (harappa) @ 3.08
15 60.6% han-nchina (hgdp) + 39.4% srivastava (reich) @ 3.12
16 64% tu (hgdp) + 36% vaish (reich) @ 3.16
17 64.1% tu (hgdp) + 35.9% caribbean-indian (harappa) @ 3.17
18 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 3.18
19 64.2% tu (hgdp) + 35.8% up (harappa) @ 3.18
20 64.3% tu (hgdp) + 35.7% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 3.21

Mingle

08-18-2019, 01:43 AM

British gave them independence to do whatever actually. They just joined india after independence, either by force or will. They fit better in india than in china or burma anyways given their decent affinity with indic culture.

I didn't mean that the Brits forced them to join India, but the later effects of their policies led to them being aligned with the Republic of India. If it wasn't directly governed by the British, it would have been independent like Sri Lanka or Nepal (Indian lands that didn't join the Republic of India due to not being under British administration) or Bhutan (TB land that never joined India due to not being under British administration).

Myanmar also has affinity with Indic culture by the way and was considered part of the Indosphere (along with most of SE Asia).

I think himachal is more similar to kashmiri paharis an rajputs. The tibetan groups there didnt mingle much i think with the indo aryan populations but in uttarakhand i think its a cocktail lol. I mean LOL its a brahmin with 30% mongoloid. I have one bisht sample, uttarakhand rajput with over 60% tibetan shift in oracles. Its crazy actually.

Do you remember how much EE Nepalis Khases score?

Do you know if there are any significant differences between Garhwalis and Kumaonis, and which part of UK the sample in the OP is from?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:59 AM

Do you remember how much EE Nepalis Khases score?

Do you know if there are any significant differences between Garhwalis and Kumaonis, and which part of UK the sample in the OP is from?

Nepali Brahmins (nepalese-a group on harappa) get 8% EE. (4% NE asian, 2% Siberian, 1% SE asian, and 1% American). Similar to kashmiris and himachal folks
Nepali Chhetris/kshatriyas (nepalese-c) get 30% EE. (24% Ne asian, 3% Siberian, 1%SE asian, 1% American, 1% Beringian). Pretty much the same as uttaranchal brahmin.

Kumaonis are more eastern shifted than garwhalis from what I've seen on AG. both MDL and poi told me that. they had no clue about where the brahmin sample is from actually. However the bisht sample i just posted might be from kumaon region but not sure. Its mixed overall i think. average paharis native to uttarakhand might be anywhere from 30%-60% East asian shifted in general.

arkas

08-18-2019, 02:01 AM

You created this map yourself? I'm surprised Kerala stands out a little from their neighbouring states.

How does Sri Lanka average?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 02:14 AM

You created this map yourself? I'm surprised Kerala stands out a little from their neighbouring states.

How does Sri Lanka average?

Yeah i made these maps :)

Kerala nairs are supposedly slightly mixed with kerala brahmins. but even then, if you look at otherkerala averages on harappa spreadsheet, christians, muslims all have elevated caucasus as well. muslims form 27% of kerala and 18% are christians. even they are slightly western shifted. its mostly from west asian trading and all from the past.

there are 3 srilankan groups. 1st are sinhalese that get 51% S indian, 28% baloch, 6% EE, 4% NE euro, and 5% med(portuguese).
next sinhalese get 56% S indian, 31% baloch, 5% EE, 1% NE Euro, and no med.
srilankan tamils get 58% S indian, 33% baloch, 3% EE, no ne euro or med.

Zoro

08-18-2019, 02:14 AM

Isn't the East Eurasian a bit high? My guess is that the East Eurasian isn't purely EE but includes some West Eurasian due to having some ANE admixture.

By the way, can you give some examples of Indian middle castes?

Actually most of the S. Indian component in Harrapa is E. Eurasian because Malayans score 79% of it. Indians in general carry a ton of E. Eurasian of the SE Asian type. Here are some of the top S. Indian scorers from the Harappa spreadsheet

<colgroup width="85" span="2"></colgroup> <tbody>
Population
S-Indian

paniya
83.99

irula
83.22

pulliyar
83.21

malayan

79.06

malayan
75.49

bhunjia
73.39

santhal
73.25

dhurwa
73.2

mala
72.93

tn-dalit
72.65

santhal
72.41

ap-mala
72.2

asur
72.09

nihali
71.66

kurumba
70.26

hakkipikki
70.22

north-kannadi
70.13

madiga
69.83

ho
69.5

mawasi
69.35

ap-madiga
69.27

kharia
69.06

savara
68.71

chenchu
68.63

tamil-vishwakarma
68.01

kharia
67.68

sakilli
67.59

bhil
67.12

chamar
66.47

gond
65.87

kamsali
65.55

gadaba
64.79

vysya
64.11

sahariya
63.75

</tbody>
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Thambi

08-18-2019, 02:23 AM

what happened to the format on this page? the font is small for no reason

Mingle

08-18-2019, 02:37 AM

Actually most of the S. Indian component in Harrapa is E. Eurasian because Malayans score 79% of it. Indians in general carry a ton of E. Eurasian of the SE Asian type. Here are some of the top S. Indian scorers from the Harappa spreadsheet

Population
S-Indian

paniya
83.99

irula
83.22

pulliyar
83.21

malayan

79.06

malayan
75.49

bhunjia
73.39

santhal
73.25

dhurwa
73.2

mala
72.93

tn-dalit
72.65

santhal
72.41

ap-mala
72.2

asur
72.09

nihali
71.66

kurumba
70.26

hakkipikki
70.22

north-kannadi
70.13

madiga
69.83

ho
69.5

mawasi
69.35

ap-madiga
69.27

kharia
69.06

savara
68.71

chenchu
68.63

tamil-vishwakarma
68.01

kharia
67.68

sakilli
67.59

bhil
67.12

chamar
66.47

gond
65.87

kamsali
65.55

gadaba
64.79

vysya
64.11

sahariya
63.75

body,div,table,thead,tbody,tfoot,tr,th,td,p { font-family:"Liberation Sans"; font-size:x-small } a.comment-indicator:hover + comment { background:#ffd; position:absolute; display:block; border:1px solid black; padding:0.5em; } a.comment-indicator { background:red; display:inline-block; border:1px solid black; width:0.5em; height:0.5em; } comment { display:none; } Technically it does fall under the East Eurasian branch, but it's distinct from Mongoloid East Eurasian.

Zoro

08-18-2019, 02:53 AM

Technically it does fall under the East Eurasian branch, but it's distinct from Mongoloid East Eurasian.

Agreed if you mean the E. Siberian or NE Asian kind of E. Eurasian. This graph from Eurasiandna.com shows Indians still have a decent amount of E/SE Asian combo. Too bad it doesn't have S. Indians though. I'm guessing if that graph was for just NE Asian then those Indians would score even less. In that case the northern ones would probably score more than the southern ones.

https://i.imgur.com/YByiaN4.jpg

Thambi

08-18-2019, 02:54 AM

Isn't the East Eurasian a bit high? My guess is that the East Eurasian isn't purely EE but includes some West Eurasian due to having some ANE admixture.

By the way, can you give some examples of Indian middle castes?

Breakdown of each component

Baloch
https://i.imgur.com/ZLHAhFu.png

Caucasian
https://i.imgur.com/xty0aPd.png

Northeast European
https://i.imgur.com/wAiUN06.png

Thambi

08-18-2019, 02:55 AM

North East Asian
https://i.imgur.com/qMAFBVl.png

Siberian/American/Beringian
https://i.imgur.com/HrQnjKf.png

Southeast Asian
https://i.imgur.com/XaAJpuT.png

SharpFork

08-18-2019, 06:09 AM

Why is Haryana so North-West European?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 10:10 AM

Why is Haryana so North-West European?

Its northeast european btw, not northwest.

Jatts from haryana have the most ‘aryan’ like admix. They likely are more steppe derived rather than iran neolithic or aasi derived. Theyre a mystery group. Haryana jatts have second highest euro on average in the region after tajiks.

SharpFork

08-18-2019, 12:37 PM

Its northeast european btw, not northwest.

Jatts from haryana have the most ‘aryan’ like admix. They likely are more steppe derived rather than iran neolithic or aasi derived. Theyre a mystery group. Haryana jatts have second highest euro on average in the region after tajiks.
Even Pakistani groups are less euro/steppe?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 12:40 PM

Even Pakistani groups are less euro/steppe?

Yes pakistanis have higher baloch/caucasian and slightly less euro compared to indian punjabis and haryanvis. they're more iran neolithic derived with more baloch and caucasus type influence. not by much though about 4% difference on average for those components. they're all still part of general northwest south asian cluster.

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:00 PM

Even Pakistani groups are less euro/steppe?

https://i.imgur.com/MqZowla.png

Pakistani group averages. Punjabi arains, jatt muslims are representative of pakistani punjabis while jatt sikhs are more representative of indian punjab. The punjabi average uses both indian and pakistani punjabis for group average.

Khatris are originally from modern day pakistan, though they're found mostly in india today cause they're hindus. they migrated from west punjab(pakistan) to east punjab(india) after the partition in 1947. The pak punjabi groups have slightly higher caucasus and baloch as you can see with less euro shift.

I posted kalash, burusho, pathans, balochis for comparison as well. pashtuns are afghan and pathans are pakistani. Burushos have high NE asian/siberian shift due to some mix from baltis (tibetan groups) in northern pakistan.

SharpFork

08-18-2019, 01:33 PM

Is this higher Euro admixture in Haryana Jats and Sikh Punjabis a sure thing or could it be from low sample or some kind of statistical anomaly?

Thambi

08-18-2019, 01:46 PM

Is this higher Euro admixture in Haryana Jats and Sikh Punjabis a sure thing or could it be from low sample or some kind of statistical anomaly?

with haryana jats its confirmed. They do indeed get highest euro in the subcontinent. There are haryana jatts with a little over 20% NE euro actually. sikh punjabis arent that different from pakistani groups but sikhs do get slightly higher euro while pak groups get slightly higher baloch/caucasus given their proximity to pashtuns and balochis. geogrpahically it makes sense.

SharpFork

08-18-2019, 02:27 PM

Thambi

08-18-2019, 03:01 PM

I find this very strange, given it's not like this region is geographically isolated from the surrounding, do you think this is something that finds its origins in the original IE migration? Or is it from either the iron age/antiquity or medieval/early-modern period?

I think the jatts tend to be more endogamous and didnt marry out their castes too much. Thats why i think they preserved the original steppe genes better. Jatts/rors get 40% steppe on G25, i think you saw the results before on another thread. The euro found in the subcontinent came before iron age. They came in multiple waves but they were before iron age forsure. the steppe migrations occured during bronze age so by iron age, euro components were already established in the region.

Tenma de Pegasus

08-18-2019, 03:15 PM

There is not much difference among north and south indian middle classes.

Thambi

08-18-2019, 03:27 PM

There is not much difference among north and south indian middle classes.

northern indians get more euro in comparison and slightly less south indian regardless of caste compared to south indians but i agree not that much of a difference. However, there are differences based on caste within a region. Northern india also has higher proportion of brahmins compared to south india. Rajasthan actually has a lot of jatts, brahmins (roughly 25% of their state) and they score in low 30s for south indian, but their rajputs are technically the middle castes and many of the tribal groups in rajasthan score about the same amount of south indian as their middle castes at mid 40s. Central and eastern indian states score some mongoloid, especially bengalis. There are some tribal groups in central india that get 30-35% SE asian admix. I'll make a tribal, low caste/dalit, and brahmin ones too later tomorrow and post on this thread.

Tenma de Pegasus

08-18-2019, 03:54 PM

northern indians get more euro in comparison and slightly less south indian regardless of caste compared to south indians but i agree not that much of a difference. However, there are differences based on caste within a region. Northern india also has higher proportion of brahmins compared to south india. Rajasthan actually has a lot of jatts, brahmins (roughly 25% of their state) and they score in low 30s for south indian, but their rajputs are technically the middle castes and many of the tribal groups in rajasthan score about the same amount of south indian as their middle castes at mid 40s. Central and eastern indian states score some mongoloid, especially bengalis. There are some tribal groups in central india that get 30-35% SE asian admix. I'll make a tribal, low caste/dalit, and brahmin ones too later tomorrow and post on this thread.

It seems there is not much difference among elites of north and south, but poor people have much more variation.

Adamastor

08-18-2019, 03:58 PM

Thambi

08-18-2019, 04:04 PM

Mingle

08-18-2019, 05:48 PM

It seems there is not much difference among elites of north and south, but poor people have much more variation.Upper caste South Indians (Brahmins) are descended from North Indian migrants.

Bandesha

08-19-2019, 01:06 AM

Haryana Jatts and Indian Punjabi Jatts have more Indo-European than most non-European IE speaking groups apart from Tajiks. Interesting.
That may explain people like this Sikh (Corded-Nordic influence is clear in him):

https://i.imgur.com/T3Uqey5.jpg
more then 50 results from random people is required to make a assumption. Hryana jaats have only few been tasted and all those are clans connected with punjabi . 60% hryana jats are not real jats but jatavs (jat+yadavs) bet they will never show these results lol
Sikh jatts results are real jatts becaue they are taken randomly from more than 50 people
i am collecting dna results randomly from real muslim jatts and more than 70% have more than 20 Ne euro and soon will post more than 50 results.
here is how old muslim jatts looked

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PaC_pUpbzY

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 04:19 AM

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 04:21 AM

Jaata(40%) ,don't have the highest steepe rors have beaten their score 45% .

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 04:22 AM

Kenji is not rajput he is brahman.

Mingle

08-19-2019, 04:29 AM

Jaata(40%) ,don't have the highest steepe rors have beaten their score 45% .

Is 40% the score for Punjabi Sikh Jatts?

IIRC, Rors have the same amount of Steppe as Jatts from West UP and Haryana whereas Jatts from Punjab have less Steppe than those groups.

Thambi

08-19-2019, 04:40 AM

Rajputs (si score 45)are not middle caste but upper caste. Rajputs are 7% of rajasthan jaats(si score25) are middle caste(obc) they are 12% of population. Brahmins(si score 34) are 10%. Meghwal 10% (si score 45) meena 6% si score (42%). Gurjar 5% (34%) bhula and other tribals are less than 10% and they have very high si. You have visited rajasthan yourself you know how they look. On average rajastjani haryanvi and west up don't look much different

how much of the population do baniyas makeup? Yes I did see many northwestern shifted folks in rajasthan but there were many that looked quite southern shifted as well. Phenotype doesnt equal genotype all the time so thats why. The jatts and brahmins makeup 4 samples in total while there are more baniya samples showing they can go into mid 40s to high 40s and even to low 50s. Not sure if baniays in rajasthan came from neighboring gujarat, UP, etc. Also OBCs are middle-lower. I used kshatriyas and vaishyas for most as middle castes. OBC/tribals are not really middle castes. Jatt sikhs are not obcs in punjab and haryana and most of their birdaris that are non jatts score almost no differently to jatts.

Plus that rajasthani jatts dont all have to score similarly so thats why i didnt use them. 25% S indian cant be the average. Rajasthanis didnt look THAT western shifted. They still looked more southern than punjabis imo. somewhere in the mid 30s makes sense. Also i could be wrong but arent many brahmins and jatts in rajasthan from neighboring punjab/haryana? I know a rajasthani brahmin from Kota and he said many have origin from punjab.

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 04:57 AM

how much of the population do baniyas makeup? Yes I did see many northwestern shifted folks in rajasthan but there were many that looked quite southern shifted as well. Phenotype doesnt equal genotype all the time so thats why. The jatts and brahmins makeup 4 samples in total while there are more baniya samples showing they can go into mid 40s to high 40s and even to low 50s. Not sure if baniays in rajasthan came from neighboring gujarat, UP, etc. Also OBCs are middle-lower. I used kshatriyas and vaishyas for most as middle castes. OBC/tribals are not really middle castes. Jatt sikhs are not obcs in punjab and haryana and most of their birdaris that are non jatts score almost no differently to jatts.

Plus that rajasthani jatts dont all have to score similarly so thats why i didnt use them. 25% S indian cant be the average. Rajasthanis didnt look THAT western shifted. They still looked more southern than punjabis imo. somewhere in the mid 30s makes sense. Also i could be wrong but arent many brahmins and jatts in rajasthan from neighboring punjab/haryana? I know a rajasthani brahmin from Kota and he said many have origin from punjab.

Baniya are less than 5%. But since they are highest in numbers who migrated abroad for buisness and education. Same like there are tamil iyer and iyenger.
Rajasthani jaata do look less si shifted then brahmins of community. Who score 31%. Rajasthan. Has the highest population of jaata in india. South and south east rajsthan don't have many jaata.

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 05:02 AM

Many rajasthani jaats look less si than punjabi ones to me. Also punjabi jaats are basically local punjabi+ haryana jaat genetically. Paki juts have even less jaat dna

Thambi

08-19-2019, 05:05 AM

Baniya are less than 5%. But since they are highest in numbers who migrated abroad for buisness and education. Same like there are tamil iyer and iyenger.
Rajasthani jaata do look less si shifted then brahmins of community. Who score 31%. Rajasthan. Has the highest population of jaata in india. South and south east rajsthan don't have many jaata.

hmm. what do you suggest i use for rajasthan then? cause 25% south indian for rajasthan seems a bit far fetched, even though two jats from rajashtan on harappa seem more western shifted than haryana jatts. Rajashtanis on average cant be more northwest shifted than punjabis, kashmiris, and haryanvis. doesnt make sense imo. should i use rajasthan brahmin as average on the map for rajasthan? Jats in rajasthan could be very diverse for all we know while brahmins within each state are more or less homogenous. and rajasthan has a decent brahmin population.

Mingle

08-19-2019, 05:07 AM

Thambi

08-19-2019, 05:13 AM

How genetically diverse are Brahmins? If you're still doing these kinds of maps, I'd be curious what a Brahmin one would look like since they're spread all over India, but I'm not sure if one is warranted if they're almost all the same in most places.

honestly not that much. NW brahmisn score in low 30s, UP/bihari/gujju brahmins in upper 30s/low 40s, and southern brahmins in mid-upper 40s. mid castes are more diverse i think. and lower castes and tribals have the most variation imo like irulas,paniyas that reach 80% in the south, to chamars, meenas in rajasthan/haryana/punjab in 40s to bhil,eastern tribals in 60s south indian and 20-30 south east asian nd almost non existant west eurasian.

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 05:30 AM

hmm. what do you suggest i use for rajasthan then? cause 25% south indian for rajasthan seems a bit far fetched, even though two jats from rajashtan on harappa seem more western shifted than haryana jatts. Rajashtanis on average cant be more northwest shifted than punjabis, kashmiris, and haryanvis. doesnt make sense imo. should i use rajasthan brahmin as average on the map for rajasthan? Jats in rajasthan could be very diverse for all we know while brahmins within each state are more or less homogenous. and rajasthan has a decent brahmin population.

Use brahmins for all states or dalits or tribals. It will be better

Purohit ji

08-19-2019, 05:34 AM

Is 40% the score for Punjabi Sikh Jatts?

IIRC, Rors have the same amount of Steppe as Jatts from West UP and Haryana whereas Jatts from Punjab have less Steppe than those groups.

No 40% is for west up jaat and 45% for haryana ror.
Ror and jaat hate each other

Thambi

08-19-2019, 06:02 AM

No 40% is for west up jaat and 45% for haryana ror.
Ror and jaat hate each other

no west up Jat and Rors score about the same steppe. They get the second highest after tajiks in the south/central asian region.

https://i.imgur.com/riqXyjz.png

hussein khan

08-21-2019, 03:02 PM

Hi,

I remember once someone said there are jatts being able to get 25% NE-euro and i think maybe it was you, who said it. Could you post them?

Leto

08-21-2019, 03:18 PM

Hi,

I remember once someone said there are jatts being able to get 25% NE-euro and i think maybe it was you, who said it. Could you post them?
Ca. 20 percent
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

Adamastor

08-21-2019, 03:23 PM

no west up Jat and Rors score about the same steppe. They get the second highest after tajiks in the south/central asian region.

https://i.imgur.com/riqXyjz.png

Are these numbers really accurate? If yes, then it means some of these groups have more Indo-European ancestry than most Southern Europeans. 40% is a lot.

I've been to Rajasthan, Punjab and Haryana and from all of them Punjabis looked the least ASI-shifted but in Haryana I saw much more ''pseudo-white'' looking people. I remember there was a family in a line to enter Akshardham temple that I could not believe they were Indians at that time (it was my first time in India and I was still relying heavily on stereotypes), the little girl even had light-brown hair. Maybe they were Jatts.

Curiously no one was staring at them or asking for pics and they could speak perfectly Hindi but some tourists who were darker than them got stared and asked for pics.

hussein khan

08-21-2019, 04:04 PM

Ca. 20 percent
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?247016-Punjabi-Haryanvi-Jat-GEDmatch-results

thanks, but this isnt what i wanted. i already seen those(even ones with 24% SI). I remember someone said some jatts could get up to 25% and i wanted to see that

Adamastor

08-21-2019, 04:36 PM

thanks, but this isnt what i wanted. i already seen those(even ones with 24% SI). I remember someone said some jatts could get up to 25% and i wanted to see that

https://i.imgur.com/riqXyjz.png

It seems they can be up to 40% Indo-European (Sintashta). But mostly Indian Jatts from Haryana and Rajasthan, Pakistani Jatts are less Steppe.

hussein khan

08-21-2019, 04:43 PM

Sintashta is basically some indo-aryan with some influx of iran neo, hence why they can get so much steppe. Im talking about pure european like the NE-euro component.

Adamastor

08-21-2019, 04:57 PM

Sintashta is basically some indo-aryan with some influx of iran neo, hence why they can get so much steppe. Im talking about pure european like the NE-euro component.

Sintashta is not ''Indo-Aryan'' if you mean modern Indo-Aryans. It is proto-Indo-Aryan which is purelly Steppe component. Sintashta people were more or less the same as Andronovo people and were Northern Europeans genetically.

For some reason Indian Jatts have more European than Pakistani Jatts.

hussein khan

08-21-2019, 05:18 PM

Leto

08-21-2019, 06:56 PM

thanks, but this isnt what i wanted. i already seen those(even ones with 24% SI). I remember someone said some jatts could get up to 25% and i wanted to see that
I've never seen such a score in an Indian or even Pashtun if you're talking about Harappa World.

hussein khan

08-22-2019, 02:51 PM

I am.

I believed thambi said something about jatts being able to reach up to 25%. I already seen some pamiris get that much.

hussein khan

08-22-2019, 02:52 PM

I am.

I believed thambi said something about jatts being able to reach up to 25%. I already seen some pamiris get that much.

Leto

08-22-2019, 03:53 PM

I believed thambi said something about jatts being able to reach up to 25%. I already seen some pamiris get that much.
Pamiris are not South Asians (Indic). They are South Central Asians.

hussein khan

08-22-2019, 03:55 PM

Pamiris are not South Asians (Indic). They are South Central Asians.

Well, ishkashimis are genetically and wakhis too.

But i wasnt calling them south asians.

hussein khan

08-22-2019, 03:58 PM

i meant, i wasnt calling pamiris south asians(although some do approach pashtun cluster, the ones getting 10-11% SI)

Thambi

08-23-2019, 01:03 AM

thanks, but this isnt what i wanted. i already seen those(even ones with 24% SI). I remember someone said some jatts could get up to 25% and i wanted to see that

I think i meant NE euro + med. that person in the link posted by Leto has roughly the same euro combo (ne euro + med) as south indian.

Bandesha

08-23-2019, 10:06 AM

i meant, i wasnt calling pamiris south asians(although some do approach pashtun cluster, the ones getting 10-11% SI)

https://i.imgur.com/Gi5RlcA.png

hussein khan

08-23-2019, 02:29 PM

Why do you send this to me? Why should i care?

Bandesha

08-24-2019, 03:42 AM

Why do you send this to me? Why should i care?

hussein khan = gulmirza

hussein khan

08-24-2019, 12:28 PM

Whats a gulmirza?

Leto

08-25-2019, 08:22 PM

TBH, i dont think so.

I seen the gedmatch results of these jatts in G25 and seen the gedmatch results of iron age schythian sample from kazakhstan(i assume proto-indo-aryans are even more steppe shifted). They dont seem like they can get modelled as 40% pure european-alike steppe people with their amount of steppe admix, if steppe means entirely european. The sintashta reference got to have some minor iran-neo admix.
These are Middle-Late Bronze Age samples from Southeastern Kazakhstan (1700-1500 BC). I believe the kits were deleted, I saved the results

Kit Z092581

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 50.05
2 Baloch 19.73
3 Mediterranean 14.91
4 Caucasian 5.88
5 Siberian 3.17
6 American 3.16
7 S-Indian 1.04
8 Papuan 0.74
9 Pygmy 0.67
10 E-African 0.32
11 Beringian 0.25

Kit Z303460

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 53.6
2 Baloch 20.3
3 Mediterranean 13.72
4 Caucasian 4.06
5 Beringian 2.39
6 American 1.56
7 Siberian 1.08
8 W-African 0.98
9 S-Indian 0.84
10 Papuan 0.67
11 NE-Asian 0.55
12 SE-Asian 0.24

Kit Z740946

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 47.94
2 Baloch 21.58
3 Mediterranean 14.54
4 Caucasian 6.22
5 Siberian 4.16
6 American 3.38
7 Beringian 1.26
8 E-African 0.36
9 W-African 0.34
10 Pygmy 0.18

Kit Z523705

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 56.68
2 Baloch 20.5
3 Mediterranean 14.27
4 Caucasian 2.06
5 American 1.91
6 Siberian 1.49
7 S-Indian 1.3
8 Beringian 0.8
9 Papuan 0.59
10 W-African 0.17
11 Pygmy 0.13

hussein khan

08-26-2019, 02:33 PM

These are Middle-Late Bronze Age samples from Southeastern Kazakhstan (1700-1500 BC). I believe the kits were deleted, I saved the results

Kit Z092581

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 50.05
2 Baloch 19.73
3 Mediterranean 14.91
4 Caucasian 5.88
5 Siberian 3.17
6 American 3.16
7 S-Indian 1.04
8 Papuan 0.74
9 Pygmy 0.67
10 E-African 0.32
11 Beringian 0.25

Kit Z303460

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 53.6
2 Baloch 20.3
3 Mediterranean 13.72
4 Caucasian 4.06
5 Beringian 2.39
6 American 1.56
7 Siberian 1.08
8 W-African 0.98
9 S-Indian 0.84
10 Papuan 0.67
11 NE-Asian 0.55
12 SE-Asian 0.24

Kit Z740946

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 47.94
2 Baloch 21.58
3 Mediterranean 14.54
4 Caucasian 6.22
5 Siberian 4.16
6 American 3.38
7 Beringian 1.26
8 E-African 0.36
9 W-African 0.34
10 Pygmy 0.18

Kit Z523705

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE-Euro 56.68
2 Baloch 20.5
3 Mediterranean 14.27
4 Caucasian 2.06
5 American 1.91
6 Siberian 1.49
7 S-Indian 1.3
8 Beringian 0.8
9 Papuan 0.59
10 W-African 0.17
11 Pygmy 0.13

Well, seems like they can get modelled as around 35-40% after all. But i thought the samples would be like extremely european. Seems like they arent and are very dravidian-admixed as i expected

Leto

08-26-2019, 03:32 PM

Well, seems like they can get modelled as around 35-40% after all. But i thought the samples would be like extremely european. Seems like they arent and are very dravidian-admixed as i expected
Where do you see the Dravidian? They're literally 0-1% South Indian. And the Baloch is not really South Asian, it's South-Central Asian (Gedrosia), therefore Caucasoid/West Eurasian. You can see modern British and Irish people getting 7-8% Baloch/Gedrosia on Harappa & Dodecad.

hussein khan

08-26-2019, 03:55 PM

Where do you see the Dravidian? They're literally 0-1% South Indian. And the Baloch is not really South Asian, it's South-Central Asian (Gedrosia), therefore Caucasoid/West Eurasian. You can see modern British and Irish people getting 7-8% Baloch/Gedrosia on Harappa & Dodecad.

Talking about dravidians. The iranian neolithics. A good portion of them can even be less than 3% SI.

Anyway, i meant the baloch. Sure europeans can get 4-8% baloch, but the steppe people getting even a bit above 20% baloch makes this bigger affinity to south asians.

turbosat

08-26-2019, 05:44 PM

Actually most of the S. Indian component in Harrapa is E. Eurasian because Malayans score 79% of it. Indians in general carry a ton of E. Eurasian of the SE Asian type. Here are some of the top S. Indian scorers from the Harappa spreadsheet

<tbody>
Population
S-Indian

paniya
83.99

irula
83.22

pulliyar
83.21

malayan

79.06

malayan
75.49

bhunjia
73.39

santhal
73.25

dhurwa
73.2

mala
72.93

tn-dalit
72.65

santhal
72.41

ap-mala
72.2

asur
72.09

nihali
71.66

kurumba
70.26

hakkipikki
70.22

north-kannadi
70.13

madiga
69.83

ho
69.5

mawasi
69.35

ap-madiga
69.27

kharia
69.06

savara
68.71

chenchu
68.63

tamil-vishwakarma
68.01

kharia
67.68

sakilli
67.59

bhil
67.12

chamar
66.47

gond
65.87

kamsali
65.55

gadaba
64.79

vysya
64.11

sahariya
63.75

</tbody>
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The Malayan shown in your table are a South Indian tribe from Tamil Nadu and Kerala states. Nothing to do with Malaysians (Malayans).

https://joshuaproject.net/people_groups/17436/IN Malayan, tribe in India
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malayan_tribe

SharpFork

09-04-2019, 07:20 AM

I can't wait for the Brahmin results, you think a potential Dalit one is worth making?

hussein khan

09-04-2019, 08:39 AM

SharpFork

09-04-2019, 06:56 PM

I actually did find a brahmin(gujarati one) getting 16% NE-euro in harrappaworld(although also 36% SI). Bit suprised to see such results. THought only jatts could get such results. I will post the results later….
I'm not an expert on Pakistan, you think it's possible to analyze people by class in Pakistan like we with Castes or Tribes in India? I'm interested in how little some Pakistani groups get in terms of South Indian admixture.

hussein khan

09-05-2019, 02:34 PM

I'm not an expert on Pakistan, you think it's possible to analyze people by class in Pakistan like we with Castes or Tribes in India? I'm interested in how little some Pakistani groups get in terms of South Indian admixture.

Thing is, im not a desi. So i dont know much about this caste thing tbh. Or class thing. Heck, im not even from pakistan. Im actually from afghanistan(quetta and kandahar is right next to each other, and i for fun just picked quetta).

And i dont know much about pakistan though. So i dont know....

hussein khan

09-05-2019, 02:36 PM

Leto

09-05-2019, 03:37 PM

Thing is, im not a desi. So i dont know much about this caste thing tbh. Or class thing. Heck, im not even from pakistan. Im actually from afghanistan(quetta and kandahar is right next to each other, and i for fun just picked quetta).

And i dont know much about pakistan though. So i dont know....
Have you not done a DNA test? I suggest you go for Ancestry DNA, it's the best at the moment.

hussein khan

09-05-2019, 03:41 PM

Have you not done a DNA test? I suggest you go for Ancestry DNA, it's the best at the moment.

ok, i'll see about that.

Leto

09-05-2019, 03:51 PM

Deleted

Leto

09-05-2019, 09:55 PM

Gujarati (he is discussing his Harappa results in the video among other things)

https://youtu.be/zXwkEoSOxfs

HarappaWorld Oracle results:

Kit M280595

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 53.05
2 Baloch 33.6
3 NE-Euro 2.56
4 Mediterranean 2.17
5 SE-Asian 1.92
6 NE-Asian 1.9
7 Caucasian 1.73
8 SW-Asian 1.43
9 American 0.71
10 Papuan 0.63
11 San 0.23
12 Beringian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 tharu (metspalu) 2.89
2 dharkar (metspalu) 2.96
3 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 3.38
4 up-muslim (metspalu) 3.46
5 karnataka (harappa) 3.49
6 kerala-muslim (harappa) 3.79
7 kanjar (metspalu) 3.82
8 ap-reddy (harappa) 4.39
9 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 4.53
10 tamil (harappa) 4.58
11 bihari (harappa) 4.8
12 caribbean-indian (harappa) 5.07
13 sinhalese (harappa) 5.09
14 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 5.17
15 up (harappa) 5.27
16 velama (metspalu) 5.54
17 ap-brahmin (xing) 5.93
18 velama (reich) 6
19 lodi (reich) 6.01
20 up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) 6.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.3% ap-reddy (harappa) + 40.7% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 1.72
2 58.6% dharkar (metspalu) + 41.4% kerala-muslim (harappa) @ 1.8
3 86.8% dusadh (metspalu) + 13.2% balochi (hgdp) @ 1.92
4 57.6% sri-lankan (harappa) + 42.4% gujarati-patel (harappa) @ 1.92
5 88.8% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 11.2% brahui (hgdp) @ 1.94
6 87.7% dusadh (metspalu) + 12.3% makrani (hgdp) @ 1.96
7 55.3% sri-lankan (harappa) + 44.7% gujarati-a (1000genomes) @ 1.97
8 87.6% dusadh (metspalu) + 12.4% brahui (hgdp) @ 1.98
9 88.9% lodi (reich) + 11.1% makrani (hgdp) @ 1.98
10 88.8% lodi (reich) + 11.2% brahui (hgdp) @ 1.99
11 80.2% dusadh (metspalu) + 19.8% sindhi (hgdp) @ 1.99
12 78.9% dusadh (metspalu) + 21.1% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 2
13 56.7% dharkar (metspalu) + 43.3% karnataka (harappa) @ 2.01
14 88.2% lodi (reich) + 11.8% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.02
15 52.9% velama (metspalu) + 47.1% sri-lankan (harappa) @ 2.05
16 88.2% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 11.8% balochi (hgdp) @ 2.08
17 69.1% kerala-nair (harappa) + 30.9% satnami (reich) @ 2.08
18 88.9% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) + 11.1% makrani (hgdp) @ 2.09
19 50.3% kerala-muslim (harappa) + 49.7% kanjar (metspalu) @ 2.1
20 55.9% dharkar (metspalu) + 44.1% andhra-pradesh (harappa) @ 2.1

Eurogenes K13 Oracle results:

Kit M280595

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 South_Asian 67.39
2 West_Asian 20.49
3 East_Asian 3.53
4 Baltic 2.6
5 North_Atlantic 2.52
6 Red_Sea 0.78
7 Oceanian 0.74
8 East_Med 0.66
9 Northeast_African 0.59
10 Sub-Saharan 0.41
11 Amerindian 0.28

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Kanjar 3.47
2 Dharkar 3.89
3 Uttar_Pradesh 4.82
4 Velamas 4.91
5 Kurumba 4.95
6 Dusadh 5.59
7 Kol 5.69
8 North_Kannadi 7.37
9 Piramalai 8.42
10 Chenchu 8.79
11 Kshatriya 9.87
12 Bangladeshi 10.59
13 Sakilli 11.38
14 Gujarati 11.4
15 Chamar 12.1
16 Brahmin_UP 13.34
17 Sindhi 26.09
18 Punjabi_Jat 26.56
19 Austroasiatic_Ho 28.54
20 Pathan 30.32

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.3% Dusadh + 31.7% Gujarati @ 2.07
2 50% Sakilli + 50% Gujarati @ 2.08
3 83.7% Dusadh + 16.3% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.12
4 70.3% Sakilli + 29.7% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.22
5 76.4% Sakilli + 23.6% Kalash @ 2.23
6 65.3% Dusadh + 34.7% Kshatriya @ 2.28
7 72.1% Dusadh + 27.9% Brahmin_UP @ 2.33
8 87.7% Dusadh + 12.3% Kalash @ 2.4
9 53.8% Kshatriya + 46.2% Sakilli @ 2.64
10 89.6% Dusadh + 10.4% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.64
11 92.6% Dusadh + 7.4% Tabassaran @ 2.65
12 86% Dusadh + 14% Pathan @ 2.66
13 89.8% Kol + 10.2% Brahui @ 2.69
14 89.8% Kol + 10.2% Balochi @ 2.7
15 70.1% Sakilli + 29.9% Sindhi @ 2.73
16 65.9% Kanjar + 34.1% Velamas @ 2.75
17 86.8% Dusadh + 13.2% Burusho @ 2.78
18 76.9% Piramalai + 23.1% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.78
19 95.1% Velamas + 4.9% La_Brana-1 @ 2.79
20 84.3% Dusadh + 15.7% Sindhi @ 2.79

Leto

11-11-2019, 03:17 PM

A Gujarati in America. She is some sort of scientist and social worker
Photo (https://secureservercdn.net/184.168.47.225/c4a.531.myftpupload.com/wp-content/uploads/2017/08/MP-square.jpg)
Facebook (https://facebook.com/profile.php?id=522780780)

JW2717189

Population
S-Indian 50.28 Pct
Baloch 37.09 Pct
Caucasian 5.20 Pct
NE-Euro 2.98 Pct
SE-Asian -
Siberian 0.79 Pct
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.42 Pct
American -
Beringian 1.27 Pct
Mediterranean 1.70 Pct
SW-Asian -
San -
E-African 0.18 Pct
Pygmy -
W-African 0.08 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 2.64
2 rajasthani (harappa) 3.47
3 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 3.66
4 tn-brahmin (xing) 3.85
5 kerala-nair (harappa) 3.95
6 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 3.99
7 ap-brahmin (xing) 4.01
8 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 4.27
9 kerala-christian (harappa) 4.62
10 up (harappa) 4.83
11 maharashtrian (harappa) 5.02
12 tharu (metspalu) 5.38
13 gujarati (harappa) 5.42
14 ap-reddy (harappa) 5.47
15 meghawal (reich) 5.5
16 dharkar (metspalu) 5.69
17 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 5.69
18 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 5.73
19 karnataka (harappa) 5.87
20 up-muslim (metspalu) 6.03

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.1% tn-brahmin (xing) + 33.9% velama (metspalu) @ 1.85
2 70.6% velama (reich) + 29.4% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 1.86
3 80.9% tn-brahmin (xing) + 19.1% vysya (reich) @ 1.86
4 73.6% tn-brahmin (xing) + 26.4% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.88
5 58% vysya (reich) + 42% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 1.89
6 68.1% iyer-brahmin (harappa) + 31.9% velama (reich) @ 1.9
7 77.3% tn-brahmin (xing) + 22.7% kurumba (metspalu) @ 1.93
8 51% velama (reich) + 49% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 1.97
9 72.2% velama (reich) + 27.8% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) @ 2
10 77.3% velama (reich) + 22.7% punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) @ 2
11 56.4% meghawal (reich) + 43.6% velama (reich) @ 2.01
12 71.9% velama (reich) + 28.1% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 2.02
13 72.5% velama (metspalu) + 27.5% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.03
14 63.2% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 36.8% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 2.04
15 65.1% velama (reich) + 34.9% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.06
16 63.6% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 36.4% velama (metspalu) @ 2.06
17 80.5% tn-brahmin (xing) + 19.5% piramalai-kallar (metspalu) @ 2.06
18 79.9% tn-brahmin (xing) + 20.1% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) @ 2.06
19 68.4% iyer-brahmin (harappa) + 31.6% velama (metspalu) @ 2.07
20 53% vysya (reich) + 47% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 2.07

Population
North_Atlantic 0.65 Pct
Baltic 3.06 Pct
West_Med -
West_Asian 24.43 Pct
East_Med 3.57 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 65.21 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.11 Pct
Amerindian 0.78 Pct
Oceanian 0.84 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.34 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Dharkar 5.72
2 Velamas 5.9
3 Kanjar 6.29
4 Kurumba 7.42
5 Kshatriya 7.71
6 Gujarati 8.61
7 Uttar_Pradesh 9.36
8 Dusadh 9.57
9 Kol 9.79
10 North_Kannadi 10.91
11 Piramalai 11.6
12 Brahmin_UP 11.94
13 Bangladeshi 12.66
14 Chenchu 13.49
15 Sakilli 15.58
16 Chamar 15.76
17 Sindhi 22.2
18 Punjabi_Jat 23.58
19 Pathan 26.67
20 Burusho 29.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.7% Velamas + 17.3% Pathan @ 1.94
2 81.1% Velamas + 18.9% Punjabi_Jat @ 2.2
3 85.7% Velamas + 14.3% Kalash @ 2.22
4 60.5% Velamas + 39.5% Gujarati @ 2.36
5 91.6% Velamas + 8.4% Tabassaran @ 2.36
6 91.8% Velamas + 8.2% Lezgin @ 2.4
7 87.9% Velamas + 12.1% Afghan_Pashtun @ 2.45
8 70.1% Piramalai + 29.9% Pathan @ 2.48
9 91.8% Velamas + 8.2% Chechen @ 2.49
10 80.7% Velamas + 19.3% Sindhi @ 2.62
11 57.8% Velamas + 42.2% Kshatriya @ 2.63
12 92% Velamas + 8% Adygei @ 2.65
13 92.2% Velamas + 7.8% North_Ossetian @ 2.69
14 92% Velamas + 8% Kabardin @ 2.7
15 66.1% Piramalai + 33.9% Sindhi @ 2.73
16 91.9% Velamas + 8.1% Kumyk @ 2.77
17 92.2% Velamas + 7.8% Balkar @ 2.87
18 58.7% Chamar + 41.3% Sindhi @ 2.9
19 79.6% Kurumba + 20.4% Pathan @ 2.93
20 85% Velamas + 15% Burusho @ 2.94

Sort of irrelevant but here are her Jewish husband and their half Jewish daughter
LD4421897
WT7939281

Trouble

11-22-2019, 03:26 AM

Breakdown of each component

Baloch
https://i.imgur.com/ZLHAhFu.png

Caucasian
https://i.imgur.com/xty0aPd.png

Northeast European
https://i.imgur.com/wAiUN06.png

I really doubt UP is as Baloch/Caucasian as Maharashtra or Gujarat

rajputprincess

11-22-2019, 03:33 AM

Trouble

11-22-2019, 03:45 AM

How much Euro jatt have and how much tajik have?

Sent from my ZUK Z2132 using Tapatalk

Those from Hayana are usually around 17-18%. Tajiks are heterogenous with different origins so they vary.
This is from nmonte calculation

"sample": "Haryana_Jatt:Average",
"fit": 2.7829,
"PAK_Saidu_Sharif_H_o": 44.17,
"TKM_Gonur1_BA": 36.67,
"Estonian": 19.17,

Thambi

11-22-2019, 04:17 AM

I really doubt UP is as Baloch/Caucasian as Maharashtra or Gujarat

most of my averages are based on this spreadsheet. you can search up kshatriya (UP), gujarati, etc.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0

Patels are high, not the banias of gujarat. they are around 37-38% similar to the kits i posted in the mexican/indian caucasoid thread. I'm doubting the UP average now. the average on the spreadhsheet/map is lower than the kits i've seen from there. most are around 50% rather than 45%. but again banias are lower on caste heirarchy than kshatriyas. I havent come across up kshatriya kits yet. from UP i only have guptas and some agarwal kits.

Trouble

11-22-2019, 04:18 AM

most of my averages are based on this spreadsheet. you can search up kshatriya (UP), gujarati, etc.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1l87nGSIYTP-h7m-VKjB-BZcuEoWdz765nU4f_krOdd4/edit#gid=0

Patels are high, not the banias of gujarat. they are around 37-38% similar to the kits i posted in the mexican/indian caucasoid thread. I'm doubting the UP average now. the average on the spreadhsheet/map is lower than the kits i've seen from there. most are around 50% rather than 45%. but again banias are lower on caste heirarchy than kshatriyas. I havent come across up kshatriya kits yet. from UP i only have guptas and some agarwal kits.

It's just not logical though. Baloch falls down the further east you go. NE Euro is definitely higher there, though.

Thambi

11-22-2019, 04:25 AM

It's just not logical though. Baloch falls down the further east you go. NE Euro is definitely higher there, though.

i guess the non kshatriya mid castes score low baloch in UP. I have some gupta samples from UP/bihar not sure which and they score around 33-35% baloch so yeah i guess it depends on the population. when i created this thread, i barely came across any bania samples.

some guptas. could be from up/bihar. guptas are found in bengal as well, but im assuming these ones are not from there due to low east/se asian pull. I shared this on AG as well couple of days ago

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 42.89
2 Baloch 37.38
3 NE-Euro 8.59
4 Caucasian 5.88
5 NE-Asian 1.64
6 SE-Asian 1.51
7 Mediterranean 0.89
8 Siberian 0.73
9 SW-Asian 0.25
10 American 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 gujarati-b (hapmap) 3.2
2 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 3.35
3 meghawal (reich) 3.97
4 vaish (reich) 3.98
5 brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) 3.98
6 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 4.32
7 gujarati (harappa) 4.33
8 bihari-muslim (harappa) 4.47
9 maharashtrian (harappa) 4.66
10 bengali-brahmin (harappa) 4.68
11 up-brahmin (harappa) 4.84
12 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 5.08
13 tn-brahmin (xing) 5.57
14 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 5.7
15 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 5.74
16 ap-brahmin (xing) 6.66
17 rajasthani (harappa) 6.83
18 kerala-nair (harappa) 7.23
19 up (harappa) 8.37
20 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 8.4

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.5% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 43.5% kanjar (metspalu) @ 1.58
2 51.2% srivastava (reich) + 48.8% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 1.67
3 50.8% srivastava (reich) + 49.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 1.74
4 63.7% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 36.3% up-scheduled-caste (metspalu) @ 1.79
5 54.2% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 45.8% up-muslim (metspalu) @ 1.81
6 66% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 34% nepalese-a (xing) @ 1.82
7 50.5% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) + 49.5% srivastava (reich) @ 1.84
8 64.1% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 35.9% lodi (reich) @ 1.84
9 52.9% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 47.1% nepalese-a (xing) @ 1.87
10 63.1% iyer-brahmin (harappa) + 36.9% nepalese-a (xing) @ 1.89
11 62.5% kanjar (metspalu) + 37.5% pathan (hgdp) @ 1.89
12 87.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 12.3% burusho (hgdp) @ 1.89
13 67.1% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 32.9% kol (metspalu) @ 1.9
14 52% bihari (harappa) + 48% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 1.91
15 53.7% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) + 46.3% dharkar (metspalu) @ 1.91
16 51.5% up-brahmin (harappa) + 48.5% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) @ 1.91
17 62.5% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 37.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.92
18 55.5% punjabi-brahmin (harappa) + 44.5% kanjar (metspalu) @ 1.92
19 61.1% kanjar (metspalu) + 38.9% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.93
20 77.5% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 22.5% singapore-indian-c (sgvp) @ 1.94

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 48.1
2 Baloch 35.66
3 Caucasian 7.67
4 NE-Euro 2.45
5 NE-Asian 2.17
6 American 1.33
7 Siberian 0.95
8 Beringian 0.67
9 SE-Asian 0.45
10 Papuan 0.31
11 Mediterranean 0.23

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 rajasthani (harappa) 3.03
2 kerala-christian (harappa) 3.47
3 brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) 3.8
4 tn-brahmin (xing) 4.14
5 maharashtrian (harappa) 4.4
6 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 4.57
7 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 4.64
8 kerala-nair (harappa) 4.93
9 ap-brahmin (xing) 5.21
10 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 5.22
11 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 5.29
12 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 5.35
13 up (harappa) 5.52
14 meghawal (reich) 5.64
15 gujarati (harappa) 5.71
16 bihari (harappa) 6.52
17 tamil (harappa) 6.79
18 bihari-muslim (harappa) 7.14
19 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 7.22
20 ap-reddy (harappa) 7.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.6% velama (reich) + 32.4% kashmiri (harappa) @ 1.75
2 82.7% velama (reich) + 17.3% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 1.89
3 62% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 38% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.07
4 71.1% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 28.9% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.08
5 89.3% ap-reddy (harappa) + 10.7% lezgin (behar) @ 2.11
6 89.2% ap-reddy (harappa) + 10.8% urkarah (xing) @ 2.14
7 67.4% velama (metspalu) + 32.6% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.15
8 89.9% ap-reddy (harappa) + 10.1% chechen (yunusbayev) @ 2.18
9 59.1% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 40.9% kashmiri-pandit (reich) @ 2.28
10 89.1% ap-reddy (harappa) + 10.9% stalskoe (xing) @ 2.28
11 82.6% velama (metspalu) + 17.4% tajik (yunusbayev) @ 2.28
12 74.1% velama (reich) + 25.9% burusho (hgdp) @ 2.31
13 65.6% singapore-indian-a (sgvp) + 34.4% kalash (hgdp) @ 2.36
14 77.5% velama (reich) + 22.5% pashtun (harappa) @ 2.36
15 53.2% vysya (reich) + 46.8% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.36
16 71.6% karnataka (harappa) + 28.4% kashmiri (harappa) @ 2.37
17 90.3% ap-reddy (harappa) + 9.7% balkar (yunusbayev) @ 2.38
18 90.4% ap-reddy (harappa) + 9.6% north-ossetian (yunusbayev) @ 2.38
19 90.4% ap-reddy (harappa) + 9.6% adygei (hgdp) @ 2.39
20 89.6% ap-reddy (harappa) + 10.4% kumyk (yunusbayev) @ 2.4

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 52.19
2 Baloch 36.22
3 Caucasian 3.67
4 NE-Euro 3.15
5 NE-Asian 1.66
6 SE-Asian 0.97
7 Mediterranean 0.94
8 Siberian 0.64
9 Pygmy 0.54
10 W-African 0.01

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 2.46
2 tharu (metspalu) 3.42
3 ap-reddy (harappa) 3.85
4 dharkar (metspalu) 3.96
5 up-muslim (metspalu) 4.24
6 karnataka (harappa) 4.24
7 ap-brahmin (xing) 4.55
8 rajasthani (harappa) 4.63
9 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 4.81
10 kanjar (metspalu) 4.97
11 up (harappa) 5.08
12 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 5.14
13 kerala-nair (harappa) 5.15
14 velama (metspalu) 5.16
15 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 5.21
16 bihari (harappa) 5.28
17 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 5.28
18 tamil (harappa) 5.35
19 velama (reich) 5.48
20 kerala-christian (harappa) 5.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 32% vysya (reich) @ 1.6
2 79.4% velama (metspalu) + 20.6% nepalese-a (xing) @ 1.65
3 60.5% vysya (reich) + 39.5% kashmiri-pahari (harappa) @ 1.65
4 60% vysya (reich) + 40% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 1.66
5 56.2% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 43.8% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.67
6 54.4% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 45.6% gujarati-b (hapmap) @ 1.67
7 62% velama (metspalu) + 38% up-kshatriya (metspalu) @ 1.72
8 73.7% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 26.3% velama (metspalu) @ 1.75
9 81% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 19% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.77
10 60.3% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 39.7% dusadh (metspalu) @ 1.77
11 87.7% singapore-indian-b (sgvp) + 12.3% vysya (reich) @ 1.78
12 52.6% gujarati (harappa) + 47.4% tamil-vellalar (harappa) @ 1.81
13 70.5% velama (metspalu) + 29.5% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.81
14 71.4% velama (metspalu) + 28.6% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) @ 1.82
15 57.6% brahmin-tamil-nadu (metspalu) + 42.4% lodi (reich) @ 1.82
16 64.8% gujarati (harappa) + 35.2% vysya (reich) @ 1.82
17 64.4% vysya (reich) + 35.6% punjabi-arain (xing) @ 1.84
18 57.5% velama (metspalu) + 42.5% karnataka-brahmin (harappa) @ 1.87
19 70.2% vysya (reich) + 29.8% bhatia (harappa) @ 1.87
20 71.4% tamil-vellalar (harappa) + 28.6% punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) @ 1.91

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 S-Indian 50.33
2 Baloch 33.36
3 NE-Euro 6.67
4 SE-Asian 2.63
5 Caucasian 2.49
6 Mediterranean 1.54
7 Beringian 1.41
8 Papuan 0.89
9 American 0.5
10 SW-Asian 0.15
11 Siberian 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 bihari (harappa) 2.97
2 srivastava (reich) 3.35
3 up (harappa) 3.42
4 dharkar (metspalu) 3.81
5 ap-brahmin (xing) 3.99
6 up-muslim (metspalu) 4.06
7 caribbean-indian (harappa) 4.08
8 singapore-indian-b (sgvp) 4.28
9 tharu (metspalu) 4.45
10 kanjar (metspalu) 4.82
11 iyengar-brahmin (harappa) 5.14
12 karnataka-brahmin (harappa) 5.36
13 rajasthani (harappa) 5.41
14 iyer-brahmin (harappa) 5.63
15 maharashtrian (harappa) 5.84
16 kerala-muslim (harappa) 6.21
17 andhra-pradesh (harappa) 6.37
18 ap-hyderabad (harappa) 6.48
19 up-kshatriya (metspalu) 6.51
20 tn-brahmin (xing) 6.56

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 72.5% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 27.5% gond (metspalu) @ 1.82
2 78.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 21.9% nihali (metspalu) @ 1.86
3 68.1% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 31.9% satnami (reich) @ 1.93
4 71.8% dusadh (metspalu) + 28.2% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 1.98
5 73.9% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 26.1% satnami (reich) @ 1.99
6 54.6% dusadh (metspalu) + 45.4% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.02
7 50.9% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 49.1% lodi (reich) @ 2.04
8 77.8% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 22.2% gond (metspalu) @ 2.04
9 51% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) + 49% dusadh (metspalu) @ 2.06
10 57.4% lodi (reich) + 42.6% up-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.09
11 74.1% lodi (reich) + 25.9% haryana-jatt (harappa) @ 2.1
12 77.5% gujarati (harappa) + 22.5% gond (metspalu) @ 2.14
13 81% gujarati-b (hapmap) + 19% asur (chaubey) @ 2.17
14 53.7% bengali-brahmin (harappa) + 46.3% dusadh (metspalu) @ 2.17
15 89% ap-brahmin (xing) + 11% sahariya (reich) @ 2.18
16 68.3% tharu (metspalu) + 31.7% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.19
17 82.7% up-kshatriya (metspalu) + 17.3% nihali (metspalu) @ 2.19
18 66.2% kanjar (metspalu) + 33.8% bengali-brahmin (harappa) @ 2.23
19 51.8% lodi (reich) + 48.2% brahmin-uttar-pradesh (metspalu) @ 2.23
20 84.7% gujarati (harappa) + 15.3% asur (chaubey) @ 2.24

Rafael Passoni

01-16-2021, 06:48 AM

Are North Indian Sikh related to Indo Europeans?