Southwestern Ukrainian and almost identical to Croats? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

View Full Version : Southwestern Ukrainian and almost identical to Croats?

Leto

08-21-2019, 06:20 PM

This guy (https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2016/10/23/atdna-3-ethnicity-admixture/) from Ivano-Frankivsk oblast, Southwestern Ukraine runs a genealogy blog.

Y-DNA: I-Y4460 aka I2a1b2a1a1b (https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2017/06/25/i-y4460-ydna/)
mtDNA: H13a1d (https://lundiak.wordpress.com/2017/07/03/h13a1d-mtdna/)

His Family Tree DNA results and his parents':

https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/ff_map_2017.jpg
https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/ff_lundiak_atdna_344010__2017-12-02.png

Their MyHeritage results:

https://lundiak.files.wordpress.com/2016/10/2019_jan_ethnithity_estimate_results.jpg

GEDmatch (Eurogenes K13):

Kit T646810

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.37
2 North_Atlantic 28.05
3 West_Med 13.56
4 East_Med 9.61
5 West_Asian 6.71
6 Red_Sea 2.15
7 Siberian 1.4
8 South_Asian 1.22
9 Amerindian 0.38
10 Oceanian 0.31
11 Sub-Saharan 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 2.16
2 Moldavian 5.12
3 Hungarian 5.86
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.37
5 South_Polish 6.86
6 Ukrainian 7.66
7 East_German 9.49
8 Austrian 10.04
9 Serbian 10.12
10 Polish 10.32
11 Southwest_Russian 11.4
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.92
13 Russian_Smolensk 12.63
14 Estonian_Polish 13.09
15 Belorussian 13.63
16 Romanian 14.11
17 Kargopol_Russian 15.36
18 Southwest_Finnish 15.51
19 Bulgarian 16.34
20 Estonian 17.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 69.3% Russian_Smolensk + 30.7% Tuscan @ 1.08
2 69.6% Southwest_Russian + 30.4% North_Italian @ 1.23
3 82% Ukrainian_Lviv + 18% Tuscan @ 1.46
4 61% Lithuanian + 39% Tuscan @ 1.47
5 75.9% Polish + 24.1% West_Sicilian @ 1.47
6 50.5% Serbian + 49.5% Polish @ 1.51
7 61.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 38.2% Serbian @ 1.53
8 56.5% Serbian + 43.5% Estonian_Polish @ 1.54
9 68.5% Estonian_Polish + 31.5% Tuscan @ 1.6
10 57.2% Ukrainian + 42.8% Serbian @ 1.61
11 91.6% Croatian + 8.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 1.63
12 64.5% Serbian + 35.5% Lithuanian @ 1.66
13 79.1% Ukrainian + 20.9% Tuscan @ 1.66
14 57.9% Polish + 42.1% Romanian @ 1.67
15 78.9% South_Polish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.69
16 86.1% South_Polish + 13.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.69
17 93.3% Croatian + 6.7% East_Finnish @ 1.69
18 92.8% Croatian + 7.2% Finnish @ 1.69
19 67.5% Russian_Smolensk + 32.5% North_Italian @ 1.72
20 55.6% Serbian + 44.4% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.73

Parents:

Father:

Kit T392650

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 38.33
2 North_Atlantic 25.02
3 West_Med 14.59
4 East_Med 8.75
5 West_Asian 6.9
6 Siberian 2.02
7 Red_Sea 1.9
8 East_Asian 1.1
9 Amerindian 0.51
10 South_Asian 0.5
11 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.6
2 Moldavian 5.32
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 5.47
4 Ukrainian 6.58
5 South_Polish 7.34
6 Hungarian 9.11
7 Polish 10.08
8 Southwest_Russian 10.13
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 10.67
10 Russian_Smolensk 11.73
11 Serbian 11.88
12 Estonian_Polish 12.12
13 East_German 12.43
14 Belorussian 13.02
15 Austrian 13.16
16 Kargopol_Russian 13.84
17 Romanian 15.33
18 Erzya 15.61
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.6
20 Estonian 16.91

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 84.4% Ukrainian + 15.6% East_Sicilian @ 2.01
2 87% Ukrainian + 13% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.02
3 84% Ukrainian + 16% Central_Greek @ 2.05
4 80.4% Ukrainian + 19.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.06
5 85.6% Ukrainian + 14.4% South_Italian @ 2.11
6 56.1% Moldavian + 43.9% Ukrainian @ 2.17
7 71.1% Moldavian + 28.9% Estonian_Polish @ 2.18
8 82.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 17.7% Sardinian @ 2.18
9 89.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 10.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.19
10 87.2% Ukrainian + 12.8% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.23
11 83.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 16.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.25
12 84.4% Ukrainian + 15.6% West_Sicilian @ 2.26
13 73.3% Ukrainian + 26.7% Bulgarian @ 2.26
14 87.2% Ukrainian + 12.8% Italian_Jewish @ 2.29
15 88% Ukrainian + 12% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.3
16 77.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.7% Bulgarian @ 2.31
17 88.4% Ukrainian + 11.6% Cyprian @ 2.31
18 83.1% Southwest_Russian + 16.9% Sardinian @ 2.32
19 88.1% Ukrainian + 11.9% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.33
20 84.9% Croatian + 15.1% Erzya @ 2.33

Mother:

Kit Z762442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.15
2 North_Atlantic 27.47
3 West_Med 15.53
4 East_Med 10.63
5 West_Asian 4.92
6 Red_Sea 3.25
7 South_Asian 1.36
8 Siberian 0.95
9 East_Asian 0.55
10 Sub-Saharan 0.19

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.75
2 Moldavian 5.58
3 Hungarian 6.67
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.59
5 Serbian 9.09
6 South_Polish 9.21
7 Ukrainian 9.71
8 East_German 10.03
9 Austrian 10.29
10 Polish 12.34
11 Romanian 13.06
12 Southwest_Russian 13.61
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.24
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.64
15 Estonian_Polish 14.92
16 Bulgarian 15.2
17 Belorussian 15.53
18 Southwest_Finnish 17.35
19 Kargopol_Russian 17.45
20 West_German 18.02

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.2% Estonian_Polish + 35.8% Tuscan @ 2.05
2 57.1% Lithuanian + 42.9% Tuscan @ 2.23
3 62% Estonian_Polish + 38% North_Italian @ 2.27
4 64.7% Russian_Smolensk + 35.3% Tuscan @ 2.49
5 62.5% Russian_Smolensk + 37.5% North_Italian @ 2.63
6 74% Ukrainian + 26% Tuscan @ 2.72
7 63.4% Belorussian + 36.6% Tuscan @ 2.79
8 71.7% Polish + 28.3% West_Sicilian @ 2.89
9 64.4% Southwest_Russian + 35.6% North_Italian @ 2.91
10 61.1% Belorussian + 38.9% North_Italian @ 2.93
11 76.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 23.4% Tuscan @ 2.94
12 68.8% Polish + 31.2% Tuscan @ 2.95
13 54.7% Lithuanian + 45.3% North_Italian @ 3.04
14 74.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 25.1% North_Italian @ 3.07
15 72.3% Ukrainian + 27.7% North_Italian @ 3.11
16 92.7% Croatian + 7.3% Spanish_Galicia @ 3.22
17 76.9% Ukrainian + 23.1% West_Sicilian @ 3.23
18 95.8% Croatian + 4.2% Moroccan @ 3.23
19 95.8% Croatian + 4.2% Algerian @ 3.25
20 95.9% Croatian + 4.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 3.26

Dodecad K12b:

Kit T646810

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 47.66
2 Atlantic_Med 26.22
3 Caucasus 15.5
4 Southwest_Asian 4.06
5 Gedrosia 3.85
6 South_Asian 1.36
7 Siberian 1.12
8 Southeast_Asian 0.16
9 Sub_Saharan 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 1.95
2 German (Dodecad) 9.16
3 Polish (Dodecad) 15.86
4 Romanians (Behar) 15.87
5 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.13
6 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 16.53
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 16.81
8 Swedish (Dodecad) 17.13
9 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 17.86
10 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 18.11
11 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 18.15
12 Norwegian (Dodecad) 18.53
13 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 19.52
14 English (Dodecad) 19.74
15 Kent (1000Genomes) 19.74
16 British_Isles (Dodecad) 20.43
17 French (Dodecad) 20.83
18 French (HGDP) 21.26
19 Russian (Dodecad) 21.26
20 Belorussian (Behar) 21.3

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Savara (Chaubey) @ 1.33
2 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% Ho (Chaubey) @ 1.33
3 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% ASUR (Chaubey) @ 1.34
4 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Nihali (Metspalu) @ 1.34
5 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Kharia (Chaubey) @ 1.34
6 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% MALAYAN (Behar) @ 1.35
7 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Gond (Metspalu) @ 1.36
8 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Juang (Chaubey) @ 1.36
9 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% BONDA (Chaubey) @ 1.37
10 98.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.4% Pulliyar (Metspalu) @ 1.38
11 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% Hakkipikki (Metspalu) @ 1.39
12 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% North_Kannadi (Behar) @ 1.4
13 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% SAKILLI (Behar) @ 1.42
14 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% Chamar (Metspalu) @ 1.42
15 98.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.7% Saudis (Behar) @ 1.42
16 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Kol (Metspalu) @ 1.44
17 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Chenchus (Metspalu) @ 1.44
18 98.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.5% Piramalai_Kallars (Metspalu) @ 1.45
19 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste (Metspalu) @ 1.45
20 98.4% Hungarians (Behar) + 1.6% Dusadh (Metspalu) @ 1.45

Parents:

Father:

Kit T392650

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 49.22
2 Atlantic_Med 24.62
3 Caucasus 16.05
4 Southwest_Asian 4.05
5 Gedrosia 2.16
6 Siberian 1.86
7 South_Asian 0.75
8 Southeast_Asian 0.71
9 Northwest_African 0.5
10 East_African 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 3.5
2 German (Dodecad) 11.18
3 Polish (Dodecad) 14.11
4 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 14.35
5 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 16.12
6 Romanians (Behar) 16.56
7 Swedish (Dodecad) 17.87
8 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 18.42
9 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 18.44
10 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 18.59
11 Dutch (Dodecad) 18.94
12 Russian (Dodecad) 19.26
13 Belorussian (Behar) 19.31
14 Norwegian (Dodecad) 19.62
15 Mordovians (Yunusbayev) 19.67
16 Russian_B (Behar) 19.68
17 Russian (HGDP) 20.8
18 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 21.66
19 English (Dodecad) 21.89
20 Kent (1000Genomes) 21.93

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 35.6% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.78
2 62.2% Russian (Dodecad) + 37.8% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 1.82
3 60.1% Russian (Dodecad) + 39.9% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 1.83
4 66.4% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 33.6% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2
5 61.7% Russian_B (Behar) + 38.3% North_Italian (HGDP) @ 2.24
6 59.6% Russian_B (Behar) + 40.4% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.25
7 52.8% Finnish (Dodecad) + 47.2% Tuscan (HGDP) @ 2.42
8 67.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 32.8% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.49
9 67.7% Polish (Dodecad) + 32.3% O_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.51
10 70.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 29.4% Baleares (1000Genomes) @ 2.52
11 89.6% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.4% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.56
12 63.1% Russian (Dodecad) + 36.9% TSI30 (Metspalu) @ 2.58
13 85.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 14.1% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.62
14 92.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.9% Chuvashs (Behar) @ 2.62
15 73.6% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 26.4% Andalucia (1000Genomes) @ 2.63
16 89.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.5% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.65
17 72.5% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 27.5% Murcia (1000Genomes) @ 2.67
18 89.7% Hungarians (Behar) + 10.3% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.69
19 67.2% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) + 32.8% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.73
20 71.3% Polish (Dodecad) + 28.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.74

Mother:

Kit Z762442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 45.38
2 Atlantic_Med 26.43
3 Caucasus 16.53
4 Southwest_Asian 5.65
5 Gedrosia 3.41
6 Southeast_Asian 0.8
7 South_Asian 0.8
8 Siberian 0.62
9 Northwest_African 0.22
10 Sub_Saharan 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarians (Behar) 3.98
2 German (Dodecad) 10.41
3 Romanians (Behar) 13.75
4 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 15.71
5 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 16
6 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 16.68
7 Dutch (Dodecad) 17.54
8 Polish (Dodecad) 18.13
9 Ukranians (Yunusbayev) 18.43
10 Swedish (Dodecad) 19.19
11 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 20.16
12 Kent (1000Genomes) 20.27
13 French (Dodecad) 20.28
14 Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) 20.3
15 Norwegian (Dodecad) 20.34
16 English (Dodecad) 20.37
17 French (HGDP) 20.68
18 British_Isles (Dodecad) 21.15
19 Argyll (1000Genomes) 22.37
20 Orkney (1000Genomes) 22.59

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.2% Yemen_Jews (Behar) @ 1.48
2 94.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.9% Bedouin (HGDP) @ 1.48
3 95.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 4.7% Saudis (Behar) @ 1.56
4 94.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.9% Yemenese (Behar) @ 1.75
5 93.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.1% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 1.89
6 94% Hungarians (Behar) + 6% Egyptans (Behar) @ 1.89
7 93.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.1% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.03
8 93.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.2% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.06
9 94.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.5% Samaritians (Behar) @ 2.08
10 93.8% Hungarians (Behar) + 6.2% Lebanese (Behar) @ 2.26
11 92.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.1% Morocco_Jews (Behar) @ 2.28
12 93% Hungarians (Behar) + 7% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.39
13 94.5% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.5% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.43
14 92.1% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.9% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 2.45
15 94.9% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.1% Iraq_Jews (Behar) @ 2.52
16 92.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.8% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 2.53
17 92.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.58
18 94.2% Hungarians (Behar) + 5.8% Cypriots (Behar) @ 2.59
19 55.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) + 44.8% N_Italian (Dodecad) @ 2.6
20 92.3% Hungarians (Behar) + 7.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.6

They are the most "Balkanic" East Slavs I've ever seen. The guy looks very Polish though (you can find a link to his Facebook page in the blog). Feel free to post other calculators if you want to.

Jana

08-21-2019, 06:34 PM

Their family is closer to Croatian average than mine, very tight fit. I am not suprised tbh, Rugevit showed me quite a few western Ukrainians who were close to Croats years ago.

Btw, he has same I2a subclade like my maternal side :)

Satem

08-21-2019, 06:51 PM

Guy indeed looks Polish. Maybe his ancesotrs were white Croats who moved to east?

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 07:04 PM

All three seems to be of fully Carpathian Rusyn origins (Boyko or Hutsul).

Dominator

08-21-2019, 07:07 PM

All three seems to be of fully Carpathian Rusyn origins (Boyko or Hutsul).

White Croats

Roy

08-21-2019, 07:15 PM

All three seems to be of fully Carpathian Rusyn origins (Boyko or Hutsul).

You can notice that the same area used to be inhabited by Croats who by then were mentioned among East Slavic tribes.

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/East_Slavic_tribes_peoples_8th_9th_century.jpg

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 07:19 PM

White Croats

Not realy, White Croats were pure Slavs and very North shifted, these ones have visible Balkanite influence. Such results are nothing special for Carpathian region.

This person have similar results, is from the same region, he lives on the border with Poland, and he plots southern of Croatian average.

K13

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612

vbnetkhio

08-21-2019, 07:20 PM

i'm Serbian and the closest k36 result to mine i found is of a Boyko Ukrainian, posted on some forum. maybe he's even more Balkanian. i can post it.

PaleoEuropean

08-21-2019, 07:21 PM

Guy indeed looks Polish. Maybe his ancesotrs were white Croats who moved to east?

Could be leftover from the The Polish–Lithuanian Commonwealth/empire

Roy

08-21-2019, 07:21 PM

Not realy, White Croats were pure Slavs and very North shifted, these ones have visible Balkanite influence. Such results are nothing special for Carpathian region.

This person have similar results, is from the same region, he lives on the border with Poland, and he plots southern of Croatian average.

K13

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612

Do you have any proof that they were ''very Northern shifted''? Or is it just your deduction?

Ford

08-21-2019, 07:23 PM

Vlach remnant most likely.

Dominator

08-21-2019, 07:26 PM

Not realy, White Croats were pure Slavs and very North shifted, these ones have visible Balkanite influence. Such results are nothing special for Carpathian region.

This person have similar results, is from the same region, he lives on the border with Poland, and he plots southern of Croatian average.

K13

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612

Some people from this region (Ivano-Frankivsk) have Croatian surnames Malkovich for example...
they consider themselves Ukrainians

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 07:36 PM

Do you have any proof that they were ''very Northern shifted''? Or is it just your deduction?

Only Carpathian Slavs have such results, in Eastern Europe don't exist any Slavic population who plots so much southern, not Poles (except Gorals I think), not Ukrainians, not Russians, not Belarusians. And the answer is very simple, in the past, between XIII and XVI centuries Carpathian region was heavily colonized by romance speaking population who was mostly highlanders, Vlachs.

Jana

08-21-2019, 07:45 PM

Do you have any proof that they were ''very Northern shifted''? Or is it just your deduction?

It is logical since all early Slavs were probably genetically similar, Polesian-like. Carpathian Slavs have Vlach admixture, but their Slavic part is White Croat among others, especially among Rusyns, some West Ukrainans and SE Poles.

Jana

08-21-2019, 07:48 PM

Vlach remnant most likely.

They are Slavs, not Vlachs and their YDNA is Slavic. This results are typical for Carpathian region, because they are mixed with Vlachs. This person also looks North Slavic/Polish.

Ford

08-21-2019, 07:50 PM

They are Slavs, not Vlachs and their YDNA is Slavic. This results are typical for Carpathian region, because they are mixed with Vlachs. This person also looks North Slavic/Polish.

Yes, he is most likely pulled south due to Vlach admix.

Jana

08-21-2019, 07:53 PM

Yes, he is most likely pulled south due to Vlach admix.

Ofcourse, but to say he is Vlach is incorrect. Because Croats are genetically more Slavic than Vlach.

Ford

08-21-2019, 07:55 PM

Ofcourse, but to say he is Vlach is incorrect. Because Croats are genetically more Slavic than Vlach.

I didn't mean that he was literally a Vlach, just that his results are caused by Vlach remnants. Maybe influence is better word.

Jana

08-21-2019, 07:57 PM

Only Carpathian Slavs have such results, in Eastern Europe don't exist any Slavic population who plots so much southern, not Poles (except Gorals I think), not Ukrainians, not Russians, not Belarusians. And the answer is very simple, in the past, between XIII and XVI centuries Carpathian region was heavily colonized by romance speaking population who was mostly highlanders, Vlachs.

I think Gorals plot closest to Slovaks, not like these people. They are typical Western Slavs from what I seen.

But SE Poles have Balkan admixture, I did see many of their DNA Land results and Balkan was significant.

Pribislav

08-21-2019, 08:04 PM

All three seems to be of fully Carpathian Rusyn origins (Boyko or Hutsul).

Boyko, Lemko and Hutsul people are most Balkan (Vlach) influenced of all East Slavs.

vbnetkhio

08-21-2019, 08:05 PM

Vlach remnant most likely.

why not say Romanian instead of Vlach

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 08:08 PM

I think Gorals plot closest to Slovaks, not like these people. They are typical Western Slavs from what I seen.

Well, I never seen results of Polish Gorals, but they are for shure of Vlach origin, this is the reason why I said, I think.

Pribislav

08-21-2019, 08:09 PM

why not say Romanian instead of Vlach

Term Vlach is older than Romanian. Vlachs were all Latin speaking Balkanites, not only Romanians who are only one branch of Vlachs.

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 08:10 PM

why not say Romanian instead of Vlach

Because they was a Medieval population, and nobody knows how they identified herself. Romanians and Moldavians are different people today.

Jana

08-21-2019, 08:11 PM

Well, I never seen results of Polish Gorals, but they are for shure of Vlach origin, this is the reason why I said, I think.

I heard that too, but I think some Polish user mentioned them being closest to Slovaks. Maybe somebody can clarify and post some Goral sample.

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 08:15 PM

Boyko, Lemko and Hutsul people are most Balkan (Vlach) influenced of all East Slavs.

Lemko looks quite Slavic imo, they are the lightest group of Carpathian Rusyns, and I think they are not very Balkan geneticaly.

Roy

08-21-2019, 08:17 PM

Only Carpathian Slavs have such results, in Eastern Europe don't exist any Slavic population who plots so much southern, not Poles (except Gorals I think), not Ukrainians, not Russians, not Belarusians. And the answer is very simple, in the past, between XIII and XVI centuries Carpathian region was heavily colonized by romance speaking population who was mostly highlanders, Vlachs.

It is logical since all early Slavs were probably genetically similar, Polesian-like. Carpathian Slavs have Vlach admixture, but their Slavic part is White Croat among others, especially among Rusyns, some West Ukrainans and SE Poles.

Obviously I am all aware about it ...

But it isn't entirely out of question that those first people who used Croat ethnonym could have a similar substrate already to them before any Vlach migration could have taken place.

Dick

08-21-2019, 08:22 PM

Not realy, White Croats were pure Slavs and very North shifted, these ones have visible Balkanite influence. Such results are nothing special for Carpathian region.

This person have similar results, is from the same region, he lives on the border with Poland, and he plots southern of Croatian average.

K13

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:

1 Croatian @ 6,860456
2 Moldavian @ 7,886959
3 Hungarian @ 8,974471
4 Serbian @ 9,469107
5 South_Polish @ 12,745112
6 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 12,862446
7 Ukrainian @ 13,268209
8 Romanian @ 13,403067
9 Austrian @ 13,759909
10 East_German @ 14,04709
11 Bulgarian @ 15,384614
12 Polish @ 16,578473
13 Southwest_Russian @ 16,859848
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 17,684521
15 Russian_Smolensk @ 18,862002
16 Estonian_Polish @ 18,94036
17 Belorussian @ 19,403739
18 West_German @ 21,725138
19 Kargopol_Russian @ 21,87295
20 Southwest_Finnish @ 22,250612
The term Balkan is over used. One of the 3rd century Goth samples from Ukraine has supposed “Balkan” admixture even though found in polesia. West Germany+ Greek Thessaly, so like a half slavovlach.

Jana

08-21-2019, 08:30 PM

Obviously I am all aware about it ...

But it isn't entirely out of question that those first people who used Croat ethnonym could have a similar substrate already to them before any Vlach migration could have taken place.

Perhaps, some scholars mention possible relations of White Croats with Carpi people who lived in modern Moldavia close to Carpathian region, amd they seemed to be Dacians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpi_(people)

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 08:32 PM

Obviously I am all aware about it ...

But it isn't entirely out of question that those first people who used Croat ethnonym could have a similar substrate already to them before any Vlach migration could have taken place.

Croats are more South shifted because they mixed with more southern geneticaly populations from Balkans. In general Carpathian mountains before Vlachs was not populated by Slavs, this is the reason why Hungarian and Polish kings invited and encouraged colonisation of Carpathians with Vlachs. Since Vlachs was very good in developing of mountain area, both Poles and Hungarians needed them because of economic reasons, most of the oldest villages in Carpathians are founded under Vlach law.

Cumansky

08-21-2019, 08:33 PM

Here you go I am from western Ukraine same Oblast only difference 1/2 my lineage from the noble clans:

90554

Jana

08-21-2019, 08:36 PM

Lemko looks quite Slavic imo, they are the lightest group of Carpathian Rusyns, and I think they are not very Balkan geneticaly.

This is very good summary about Lemko and Rusyns:

The Lemkos (and other Carpatho-Rusyns) are considered to be descendants of medieval White Croats, and a Vlach/Romanian migration in the 14th and 15th centuries

Some scholars consider White Croats as the predecesors of the Rusyn people, particulary Lemkos

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

Cumansky

08-21-2019, 08:40 PM

Lemkos are most western washed, some of them are like Czechs or even Austrians

They don't like me, I got banned account because of them many time in Facebook

Jana

08-21-2019, 08:41 PM

Here you go I am from western Ukraine same Oblast only difference 1/2 my lineage from the noble clans:

90554

What is your I2a subclade ?

Leto

08-21-2019, 08:41 PM

MDLP K23b Oracle results:

Kit T646810

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 43.18
2 Caucasian 30.53
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.23
4 Near_East 2.44
5 South_Central_Asian 2.27
6 Ancestral_Altaic 1.79
7 Austronesian 1.6
8 Archaic_Human 0.64
9 North_African 0.64
10 East_Siberian 0.52
11 East_African 0.45
12 Australoid 0.32
13 Arctic 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 3.98
2 Czech ( ) 4.71
3 Bosnian ( ) 4.84
4 Slovak ( ) 5.02
5 Slovenian ( ) 5.06
6 Croat ( ) 5.1
7 Croat_BH ( ) 5.14
8 Serb_BH ( ) 5.22
9 Ukrainian_West ( ) 5.3
10 Hungarian ( ) 5.37
11 Serb_Serbia ( ) 6.48
12 Kashub ( ) 6.71
13 Sorb ( ) 7.27
14 Montenegrian ( ) 7.63
15 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 7.95
16 Ukrainian_East ( ) 8.46
17 Belarusian_West ( ) 8.85
18 Belarusian-East ( ) 9.26
19 Austrian ( ) 9.62
20 Ukrainian ( ) 9.84

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 56.8% Serb_BH ( ) + 43.2% Kashub ( ) @ 1.58
2 60.1% Kashub ( ) + 39.9% Macedonian ( ) @ 1.63
3 73.1% Kashub ( ) + 26.9% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 1.64
4 57.5% Croat ( ) + 42.5% Kashub ( ) @ 1.65
5 72.4% Kashub ( ) + 27.6% Greek_Thessaly ( ) @ 1.68
6 72.1% Kashub ( ) + 27.9% Greek_Thessaloniki ( ) @ 1.71
7 74.9% Kashub ( ) + 25.1% Central_Greek ( ) @ 1.72
8 53.4% Kashub ( ) + 46.6% Montenegrian ( ) @ 1.72
9 68.8% Croat_BH ( ) + 31.2% German ( ) @ 1.74
10 51.1% Slovak ( ) + 48.9% Serb_BH ( ) @ 1.74
11 71.5% Kashub ( ) + 28.5% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 1.75
12 71.5% Sorb ( ) + 28.5% Albanian_Tirana ( ) @ 1.76
13 51.3% Sorb ( ) + 48.7% Montenegrian ( ) @ 1.8
14 71.9% Ukrainian_East ( ) + 28.1% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 1.8
15 50.4% Slovak ( ) + 49.6% Croat ( ) @ 1.81
16 82.8% Serb_BH ( ) + 17.2% Finn ( ) @ 1.82
17 81.2% Serb_BH ( ) + 18.8% Finnish_FIN ( ) @ 1.83
18 50.4% Kosovar ( ) + 49.6% Estonian ( ) @ 1.84
19 77.9% Croat_BH ( ) + 22.1% Swede_Saami ( ) @ 1.85
20 70.8% Ukrainian_East ( ) + 29.2% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.85

Parents:

Kit T392650

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 43.81
2 Caucasian 31.02
3 European_Early_Farmers 13.7
4 Near_East 3.27
5 South_East_Asian 1.31
6 Arctic 1.2
7 South_Central_Asian 1.18
8 Ancestral_Altaic 1.13
9 South_Indian 0.9
10 Austronesian 0.79
11 African_Pygmy 0.58
12 Amerindian 0.32
13 Archaic_Human 0.3
14 Paleo_Siberian 0.15
15 East_African 0.15
16 Khoisan 0.13

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croat_BH ( ) 4.74
2 Ukrainian_West ( ) 4.86
3 Bosnian ( ) 4.9
4 Croat ( ) 5.4
5 Serb_BH ( ) 5.55
6 Slovak ( ) 5.81
7 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 5.87
8 Czech ( ) 5.87
9 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 6.81
10 Slovenian ( ) 6.96
11 Hungarian ( ) 7.3
12 Kashub ( ) 7.38
13 Ukrainian_East ( ) 7.41
14 Sorb ( ) 7.43
15 Serb_Serbia ( ) 7.97
16 Belarusian_West ( ) 8.04
17 Montenegrian ( ) 8.31
18 Belarusian-East ( ) 8.55
19 Ukrainian ( ) 8.56
20 Don_cossack ( ) 9.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.8% Serb_BH ( ) + 25.2% Latvian ( ) @ 2.11
2 61% Croat ( ) + 39% Belarusian_West ( ) @ 2.14
3 60.2% Serb_BH ( ) + 39.8% Belarusian_West ( ) @ 2.15
4 75.9% Serb_BH ( ) + 24.1% Estonian ( ) @ 2.15
5 72.6% Serb_BH ( ) + 27.4% Lithuanian ( ) @ 2.17
6 75.5% Croat ( ) + 24.5% Latvian ( ) @ 2.19
7 72.6% Serb_BH ( ) + 27.4% Balt ( ) @ 2.2
8 73.4% Croat ( ) + 26.6% Lithuanian ( ) @ 2.24
9 54% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 46% Serb_BH ( ) @ 2.25
10 76.7% Croat ( ) + 23.3% Estonian ( ) @ 2.27
11 53.3% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 46.7% Croat ( ) @ 2.3
12 73.4% Croat ( ) + 26.6% Balt ( ) @ 2.31
13 63.7% Serb_BH ( ) + 36.3% Russian_South ( ) @ 2.32
14 68.4% Serb_BH ( ) + 31.6% Belarusian_South ( ) @ 2.32
15 69.1% Croat ( ) + 30.9% Belarusian_South ( ) @ 2.34
16 66.9% Serb_BH ( ) + 33.1% Russian-West ( ) @ 2.34
17 62.1% Serb_BH ( ) + 37.9% Ukrainian ( ) @ 2.35
18 55.8% Lithuanian ( ) + 44.2% Kosovar ( ) @ 2.35
19 64.5% Croat ( ) + 35.5% Russian_South ( ) @ 2.35
20 62.9% Croat ( ) + 37.1% Ukrainian ( ) @ 2.36

Kit Z762442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 European_Hunters_Gatherers 40.84
2 Caucasian 30.76
3 European_Early_Farmers 15.6
4 Near_East 4.31
5 North_African 2.25
6 South_Central_Asian 2.01
7 East_Siberian 1.33
8 Ancestral_Altaic 0.9
9 South_Indian 0.46
10 Archaic_African 0.44
11 Austronesian 0.36
12 Arctic 0.34
13 Melano_Polynesian 0.23
14 Archaic_Human 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian_Budapest ( ) 4.23
2 Bosnian ( ) 4.26
3 Croat ( ) 4.47
4 Serb_BH ( ) 4.69
5 Croat_BH ( ) 4.73
6 Czech ( ) 5.2
7 Slovenian ( ) 5.37
8 Hungarian ( ) 5.7
9 Slovak ( ) 5.87
10 Ukrainian_West ( ) 6.11
11 Serb_Serbia ( ) 6.16
12 Montenegrian ( ) 6.83
13 Kashub ( ) 7.94
14 Sorb ( ) 8.19
15 Ukrainian_Center ( ) 8.73
16 Macedonian ( ) 9.04
17 Ukrainian_East ( ) 9.29
18 Bulgarian ( ) 9.3
19 Austrian ( ) 9.78
20 Belarusian_West ( ) 9.89

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 67.6% Sorb ( ) + 32.4% Sicilian_Siracusa ( ) @ 1.49
2 63.1% Pole ( ) + 36.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.53
3 78.9% Slovak ( ) + 21.1% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 1.53
4 54.8% Lithuanian ( ) + 45.2% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 1.54
5 59.2% Belarusian_South ( ) + 40.8% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 1.56
6 59.8% Belarusian ( ) + 40.2% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.58
7 57.1% Mixed_East_Slav ( ) + 42.9% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.6
8 57.2% Belarusian_Russian ( ) + 42.8% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.6
9 64.8% Ukrainian ( ) + 35.2% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.65
10 75.4% Slovak ( ) + 24.6% Ashkenazi ( ) @ 1.68
11 55.9% Russian_Center ( ) + 44.1% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 1.7
12 73.2% Kashub ( ) + 26.8% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 1.72
13 55.3% Kuban_cossack ( ) + 44.7% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.73
14 76.1% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 23.9% Italian_Abruzzo ( ) @ 1.74
15 65.5% Sorb ( ) + 34.5% Greek_Peloponnesos ( ) @ 1.74
16 76.8% Slovak ( ) + 23.2% Romanian_Jew ( ) @ 1.74
17 56.7% Russian_Center ( ) + 43.3% Italian_Tuscan ( ) @ 1.75
18 72.6% Sorb ( ) + 27.4% Sicilian_Center ( ) @ 1.77
19 73.1% Ukrainian_West ( ) + 26.9% Sicilian_Trapani ( ) @ 1.77
20 64.6% Pole ( ) + 35.4% Italian_Piedmont ( ) @ 1.79

Dick

08-21-2019, 08:42 PM

Lemkos are most western washed, some of them are like Czechs or even Austrians

They don't like me, I got banned account because of them many time in Facebook

What did you do this time

Cumansky

08-21-2019, 08:44 PM

What is your I2a subclade ?

I2 Din North

Cumansky

08-21-2019, 08:46 PM

What did you do this time

Discuss my history and DNA result, that's it

Oh ya I am not yes man, that is probably main reason why I got banned

Jana

08-21-2019, 08:46 PM

I2 Din North

Do you know any deeper ? For example my maternal side is same like this person, Y4460, that is under Din N.

vbnetkhio

08-21-2019, 08:47 PM

Term Vlach is older than Romanian. Vlachs were all Latin speaking Balkanites, not only Romanians who are only one branch of Vlachs.

exactly, Vlach is a general term, old Slavs called Italians "Vlachs" too. i wanted to say these Ukrainians are mixed with the Romanian branch of Vlachs. why say Vlachs and mystify it.

vbnetkhio

08-21-2019, 08:48 PM

this is a Boyko Ukrainian

Amerindian 0.00
Arabian 0.00
Armenian 1.06
Basque 2.09
Central_African 0.00
Central_Euro 8.71
East_African 0.00
East_Asian 0.00
East_Balkan 8.52
East_Central_Asian 0.00
East_Central_Euro 17.19
East_Med 4.14
Eastern_Euro 13.05
Fennoscandian 4.11
French 3.22
Iberian 11.28
Indo_Chinese 0.00
Italian 12.54
Malayan 0.00
Near_Eastern 0.05
North_African 0.00
North_Atlantic 4.69
North_Caucasian 2.41
North_Sea 2.94
Northeast_African 0.00
Oceanian 0.00
Omotic 0.00
Pygmy 0.00
Siberian 0.00
South_Asian 0.00
South_Central_Asian 0.00
South_Chinese 0.00
Volga_Ural 2.94
West_African 0.00
West_Caucasian 0.41
West_Med 0.65

Cumansky

08-21-2019, 08:50 PM

Do you know any deeper ? For example my maternal side is same like this person, Y4460, that is under Din N.

I am not same that Andrei guy I am familiar with the I2 tree, but have to deeper testing to find out exactly. I have good idea but no point to speculate until I do the test

Aspirin

08-21-2019, 09:12 PM

Checked his surname, and I was right, is popular only in Carpathian region, somewhere between Boyko and Hutsul lands.

https://ridni.org/karta/%D0%9B%D1%83%D0%BD%D0%B4%D1%8F%D0%BA

Dušan

08-21-2019, 09:29 PM

1 Croatian 2.16

15 78.9% South_Polish + 21.1% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.69

He got only 20% Greek Thessaly in K13 and it is closest to Croatian average. Its correct.

I got nearly 40% Greek Thessaly in K13, and still stupid Gedmatch rank me Croatian before Serbian.

1 Moldavian 4.63
2 Croatian 6.84
3 Serbian 8.18

2 60.5% Ukrainian + 39.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.89

Roy

08-21-2019, 09:35 PM

Perhaps, some scholars mention possible relations of White Croats with Carpi people who lived in modern Moldavia close to Carpathian region, amd they seemed to be Dacians.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carpi_(people)

Interesting. I've never heard about Carpi people actually.

Leto

08-21-2019, 09:50 PM

Eurogenes EUtest V2 K15 Oracle results:

Kit T646810

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.55
2 North_Sea 18.87
3 Eastern_Euro 17.39
4 Atlantic 17.16
5 West_Med 8.36
6 East_Med 6.56
7 West_Asian 5.96
8 Red_Sea 1.99
9 South_Asian 0.48
10 Siberian 0.41
11 Sub-Saharan 0.18
12 Oceanian 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 2.82
2 Moldavian 5.26
3 South_Polish 6.05
4 Hungarian 6.53
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.68
6 Ukrainian 7.1
7 Austrian 7.48
8 Polish 8.3
9 Russian_Smolensk 8.98
10 Ukrainian_Belgorod 9.48
11 Serbian 9.7
12 Southwest_Russian 9.79
13 East_German 10.07
14 Estonian_Polish 11.18
15 Belorussian 11.24
16 Romanian 12.45
17 Kargopol_Russian 12.91
18 Southwest_Finnish 13.31
19 Estonian 13.68
20 Finnish 13.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.6% Serbian + 46.4% Estonian_Polish @ 0.74
2 52% Russian_Smolensk + 48% Serbian @ 1.16
3 53.7% Serbian + 46.3% Belorussian @ 1.2
4 50.2% Serbian + 49.8% Southwest_Russian @ 1.52
5 77.9% Polish + 22.1% Central_Greek @ 1.53
6 70.9% Southwest_Russian + 29.1% North_Italian @ 1.53
7 71.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.4% North_Italian @ 1.64
8 77.4% Polish + 22.6% Ashkenazi @ 1.68
9 60.3% Polish + 39.7% Romanian @ 1.69
10 78.4% Polish + 21.6% East_Sicilian @ 1.7
11 77.3% Polish + 22.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 1.74
12 79.9% Polish + 20.1% South_Italian @ 1.82
13 61.2% Serbian + 38.8% Lithuanian @ 1.85
14 54.1% Polish + 45.9% Serbian @ 1.85
15 85.8% Croatian + 14.2% Kargopol_Russian @ 1.86
16 74.2% Polish + 25.8% Greek @ 1.88
17 50.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.4% Serbian @ 1.88
18 64.5% Polish + 35.5% Bulgarian @ 1.9
19 88.2% Croatian + 11.8% Erzya @ 1.94
20 87.2% Croatian + 12.8% East_Finnish @ 1.95

Kit T392650

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.62
2 North_Sea 19.58
3 Eastern_Euro 18.92
4 Atlantic 13.14
5 West_Med 10.41
6 West_Asian 6.59
7 East_Med 4.88
8 Red_Sea 1.63
9 Southeast_Asian 0.99
10 Siberian 0.84
11 Amerindian 0.23
12 Oceanian 0.16

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 4.77
2 Croatian 5.39
3 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.24
4 Ukrainian 6.3
5 South_Polish 6.97
6 Hungarian 8.15
7 Polish 9.4
8 Ukrainian_Belgorod 9.63
9 Southwest_Russian 10.04
10 Russian_Smolensk 10.22
11 Austrian 10.95
12 Serbian 11.28
13 East_German 11.65
14 Estonian_Polish 11.83
15 Belorussian 12.16
16 Kargopol_Russian 12.21
17 East_Finnish 13.72
18 Romanian 13.74
19 Estonian 13.97
20 Erzya 13.98

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 75.4% Moldavian + 24.6% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.77
2 78% Moldavian + 22% Erzya @ 2.81
3 59.5% Moldavian + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 2.83
4 75.9% Moldavian + 24.1% Estonian_Polish @ 3.09
5 72.7% Moldavian + 27.3% Southwest_Russian @ 3.16
6 71.4% Moldavian + 28.6% Polish @ 3.19
7 79.2% Moldavian + 20.8% East_Finnish @ 3.24
8 79.6% Moldavian + 20.4% Estonian @ 3.25
9 72.4% Moldavian + 27.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.3
10 77.5% Moldavian + 22.5% Belorussian @ 3.35
11 64.3% Moldavian + 35.7% South_Polish @ 3.35
12 61% Moldavian + 39% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.41
13 82.1% Moldavian + 17.9% Lithuanian @ 3.45
14 74.8% Moldavian + 25.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.5
15 84.6% Ukrainian + 15.4% Ashkenazi @ 3.54
16 85% Ukrainian + 15% Central_Greek @ 3.57
17 82.4% Ukrainian + 17.6% Greek @ 3.64
18 67.5% Ukrainian + 32.5% Serbian @ 3.65
19 85.5% Ukrainian + 14.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.66
20 72.1% Ukrainian + 27.9% Romanian @ 3.66

Kit Z762442

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.3
2 Atlantic 17.78
3 North_Sea 17.76
4 Eastern_Euro 15.01
5 West_Med 10.38
6 East_Med 7.97
7 West_Asian 3.65
8 Red_Sea 3.06
9 South_Asian 0.79
10 Southeast_Asian 0.29

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.58
2 Moldavian 6.31
3 Hungarian 7.06
4 Austrian 7.64
5 South_Polish 8.09
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.21
7 Ukrainian 8.84
8 Serbian 9.32
9 Polish 10.08
10 Russian_Smolensk 10.71
11 East_German 10.78
12 Romanian 11.74
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.87
14 Southwest_Russian 12.07
15 Estonian_Polish 12.64
16 Belorussian 12.68
17 Bulgarian 13.73
18 Southwest_Finnish 15.09
19 Kargopol_Russian 15.44
20 Estonian 15.49

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.3% Estonian_Polish + 34.7% Tuscan @ 1.95
2 65.3% Belorussian + 34.7% Tuscan @ 2.09
3 59.3% Lithuanian + 40.7% Tuscan @ 2.33
4 63.5% Belorussian + 36.5% North_Italian @ 2.54
5 57.4% Lithuanian + 42.6% North_Italian @ 2.55
6 78.3% Polish + 21.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.72
7 63.7% Estonian_Polish + 36.3% North_Italian @ 2.8
8 73.8% Polish + 26.2% West_Sicilian @ 2.82
9 77.9% Polish + 22.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.92
10 69.5% Russian_Smolensk + 30.5% Tuscan @ 2.93
11 69.3% Polish + 30.7% Greek @ 2.98
12 74.4% Polish + 25.6% East_Sicilian @ 3.01
13 76.2% Polish + 23.8% South_Italian @ 3.01
14 78.3% Polish + 21.7% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.03
15 70.9% Polish + 29.1% Tuscan @ 3.06
16 64.9% Southwest_Russian + 35.1% North_Italian @ 3.09
17 68.7% Polish + 31.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.1
18 67.8% Russian_Smolensk + 32.2% North_Italian @ 3.11
19 97% Croatian + 3% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.15
20 97% Croatian + 3% Saudi @ 3.18

Zrinski

08-22-2019, 06:41 PM

Don't get me wrong, I am not an expert in this, but isn't a comparison between today's samples irrelevant in the context of a medieval migration (White Croats)?

Leto

08-22-2019, 06:55 PM

I think his father is the least 'atypical' for the region

K13:
56.1% Moldavian + 43.9% Ukrainian @ 2.17

K15:
59.5% Moldavian + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 2.83

vbnetkhio

08-22-2019, 08:04 PM

boyko
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0
Armenian 1.07
Basque 2.09
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 8.71
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 8.52
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 17.18
East_Med 4.2
Eastern_Euro 13.04
Fennoscandian 4.1
French 3.22
Iberian 11.3
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 12.57
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 4.69
North_Caucasian 2.5
North_Sea 2.94
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 2.93
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0.3
West_Med 0.63

T646810 this guy
Amerindian 0
Arabian 2
Armenian 1.89
Basque 4.63
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 6.59
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 11.55
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 18.04
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 17.71
Fennoscandian 4.96
French 1.52
Iberian 7.81
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 6.62
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 8.56
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 4.38
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 0.64
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 3.11
West_Med 0

T392650 his father
Amerindian 0
Arabian 0.52
Armenian 2.96
Basque 1.38
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 7.94
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 8.74
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 19.13
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 16.1
Fennoscandian 5.87
French 2.49
Iberian 4.35
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 7.66
Malayan 0.13
Near_Eastern 0
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 3.65
North_Caucasian 0
North_Sea 9.41
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 4.11
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 2.66
West_Med 2.87

Z762442 his mother
Amerindian 0
Arabian 2.38
Armenian 2
Basque 4.22
Central_African 0
Central_Euro 7.04
East_African 0
East_Asian 0
East_Balkan 9.19
East_Central_Asian 0
East_Central_Euro 18.35
East_Med 0
Eastern_Euro 14.71
Fennoscandian 5.81
French 2.68
Iberian 9.55
Indo-Chinese 0
Italian 9.93
Malayan 0
Near_Eastern 2.58
North_African 0
North_Atlantic 7.24
North_Caucasian 1.15
North_Sea 0.94
Northeast_African 0
Oceanian 0
Omotic 0
Pygmy 0
Siberian 0
South_Asian 0
South_Central_Asian 0
South_Chinese 0
Volga-Ural 1.48
West_African 0
West_Caucasian 0
West_Med 0.75

Jana

08-22-2019, 08:40 PM

I think his father is the least 'atypical' for the region

K13:
56.1% Moldavian + 43.9% Ukrainian @ 2.17

K15:
59.5% Moldavian + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 2.83

I don't think they are atypical.

Jana

08-22-2019, 08:42 PM

i'm Serbian and the closest k36 result to mine i found is of a Boyko Ukrainian, posted on some forum. maybe he's even more Balkanian. i can post it.

Do you have K13/K15 of that Boyko ?

Leto

08-22-2019, 08:43 PM

I don't think they are atypical.
Well, when I think of East Slavs, I normally think of Russian type people (40+ percent Baltic, low Med, etc.). But I understand that's basically a fringe region (closer to Romania than Russia or Belarus).

Ivano-Frankivsk oblast
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Ivano-Frankivsk_in_Ukraine.svg/640px-Ivano-Frankivsk_in_Ukraine.svg.png

The particular district they are from
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Nadvirnyanskyi-Raion.png/643px-Nadvirnyanskyi-Raion.png

vbnetkhio

08-22-2019, 08:50 PM

Do you have K13/K15 of that Boyko ?

i found k13. his username on forums is galychanyn and hawklutz.

1 Baltic 34.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.87
3 West_Med 15.12
4 East_Med 15.09
5 West_Asian 5
6 East_Asian 0.88
7 Northeast_African 0.67
8 Amerindian 0.52
9 Siberian 0.4
10 Red_Sea 0.32
11 Oceanian 0.22

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 7.7
2 Serbian 8.07
3 Austrian 8.62
4 Ukrainian_West 11.17
5 Polish 11.18
6 Romanian 11.52
7 Ukrainian 11.62
8 Bulgarian 13.23
9 Russian 15.08
10 Ukrainian_Northeast 15.59
11 Belorussian 17.17
12 Kargopol_Russian 19.38
13 Southwest_Finnish 19.54
14 German 19.74
15 North_Swedish 20.88
16 Erzya 21.17
17 Estonian 21.19
18 Finnish 21.43
19 French 21.53
20 Lithuanian 21.81

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.9% Belorussian + 40.1% Tuscan @ 3.84
2 74.1% Polish + 25.9% Ashkenazi @ 3.84
3 53.8% Lithuanian + 46.2% Tuscan @ 3.9
4 73.3% Ukrainian + 26.7% Ashkenazi @ 3.93
5 69.7% Ukrainian + 30.3% Tuscan @ 4.19
6 57% Bulgarian + 43% Belorussian @ 4.24
7 77.7% Ukrainian + 22.3% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.29
8 62.4% Bulgarian + 37.6% Estonian @ 4.3
9 60.9% Romanian + 39.1% Belorussian @ 4.32
10 70.9% Serbian + 29.1% Belorussian @ 4.34
11 76% Serbian + 24% Lithuanian @ 4.44
12 63.3% Russian + 36.7% Tuscan @ 4.44
13 61.4% Serbian + 38.6% Ukrainian @ 4.44
14 54.9% Polish + 45.1% Bulgarian @ 4.44
15 75.7% Ukrainian + 24.3% South_Italian @ 4.46
16 53.8% Ukrainian + 46.2% Bulgarian @ 4.53
17 78.6% Polish + 21.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.57
18 50.3% Romanian + 49.7% Ukrainian @ 4.61
19 66.9% Romanian + 33.1% Lithuanian @ 4.62
20 68.5% Serbian + 31.5% Russian @ 4.64

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Lithuanian +50% Tuscan @ 5.663
2 50% Belorussian +50% Bulgarian @ 5.840
3 50% Bulgarian +50% Polish @ 6.094
4 50% Romanian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.160
5 50% Serbian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.171
6 50% Polish +50% Romanian @ 6.245
7 50% Bulgarian +50% Ukrainian @ 6.260
8 50% Belorussian +50% Romanian @ 6.296
9 50% Polish +50% Serbian @ 6.375
10 50% Lithuanian +50% North_Italian @ 6.844
16110 iterations.

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Belorussian +25% Bulgarian +25% North_Italian @ 4.820
2 50% Belorussian +25% Bulgarian +25% Tuscan @ 4.920
3 50% Belorussian +25% Romanian +25% Tuscan @ 5.071
4 50% Belorussian +25% Serbian +25% Tuscan @ 5.090
5 50% Lithuanian +25% Bulgarian +25% Tuscan @ 5.129
6 50% Lithuanian +25% Ashkenazi +25% North_Italian @ 5.239
7 50% Polish +25% Ashkenazi +25% Ukrainian @ 5.241
8 50% Belorussian +25% North_Italian +25% Romanian @ 5.248
9 50% Polish +25% Ashkenazi +25% Polish @ 5.275
10 50% Ukrainian +25% Ashkenazi +25% Polish @ 5.361
553739 iterations.

Using 4 populations approximation:
1 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Tuscan @ 4.808
2 Belorussian + Belorussian + Bulgarian + North_Italian @ 4.820
3 Belorussian + Belorussian + Bulgarian + Tuscan @ 4.920
4 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Lithuanian + North_Italian @ 5.018
5 Belorussian + Lithuanian + Romanian + Tuscan @ 5.064
6 Belorussian + Belorussian + Romanian + Tuscan @ 5.071
7 Belorussian + Belorussian + Serbian + Tuscan @ 5.090
8 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Tuscan @ 5.129
9 Belorussian + Bulgarian + Estonian + Tuscan @ 5.179
10 Ashkenazi + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + North_Italian @ 5.239
11 Ashkenazi + Polish + Polish + Ukrainian @ 5.241
12 Belorussian + Belorussian + North_Italian + Romanian @ 5.248
13 Ashkenazi + Polish + Polish + Polish @ 5.275
14 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Lithuanian + Ukrainian @ 5.286
15 Bulgarian + Estonian + Lithuanian + Tuscan @ 5.311
16 Belorussian + Lithuanian + Serbian + Tuscan @ 5.319
17 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Belorussian + Ukrainian @ 5.351
18 Ashkenazi + Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 5.361
19 Belorussian + Russian + Serbian + Tuscan @ 5.366
20 Ashkenazi + Austrian + Lithuanian + Polish @ 5.370

vbnetkhio

08-22-2019, 08:53 PM

Do you have K13/K15 of that Boyko ?

K15v2

1 Atlantic 21.87
2 Baltic 21.67
3 Eastern_Euro 16.3
4 North_Sea 13.34
5 West_Med 9.6
6 East_Med 9.59
7 West_Asian 5.89
8 Red_Sea 0.77
9 Northeast_African 0.5
10 Southeast_Asian 0.35
11 Amerindian 0.1

Jana

08-22-2019, 08:53 PM

Thanks :) he has very high east med score, lot more than me for example. Carpatho-Rusyns are clearly Slavo-Vlachs.

Cumansky

08-22-2019, 08:54 PM

This Ukrainian guy is just bigtime Jew, and he is somewhat atypical than average

Jana

08-22-2019, 08:54 PM

K15v2

1 Atlantic 21.87
2 Baltic 21.67
3 Eastern_Euro 16.3
4 North_Sea 13.34
5 West_Med 9.6
6 East_Med 9.59
7 West_Asian 5.89
8 Red_Sea 0.77
9 Northeast_African 0.5
10 Southeast_Asian 0.35
11 Amerindian 0.1

High Atlantic as well. Could be some Celtic admixture.

Cumansky

08-22-2019, 08:56 PM

Well, when I think of East Slavs, I normally think of Russian type people (40+ percent Baltic, low Med, etc.). But I understand that's basically a fringe region (closer to Romania than Russia or Belarus).

Ivano-Frankivsk oblast
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/0/09/Ivano-Frankivsk_in_Ukraine.svg/640px-Ivano-Frankivsk_in_Ukraine.svg.png

The particular district they are from
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4c/Nadvirnyanskyi-Raion.png/643px-Nadvirnyanskyi-Raion.png

My Father parents from there only difference we are Szlachta

vbnetkhio

08-22-2019, 09:04 PM

90587

this is the guy from Ivano-Frankivsk. he doesn't seem that weird after all. somebody do his mother and father and the boyko guy.

Jana

08-22-2019, 09:10 PM

90587

this is the guy from Ivano-Frankivsk. he doesn't seem that weird after all. somebody do his mother and father and the boyko guy.

Many averages on K36 map are bad.
Croatian and Bosnian are way too southern.

My entire family gets Slovenia as no.1, we are southern Croats.

xtal

08-22-2019, 11:43 PM

It’s not really that surprising since a lot of southern Ukrainians share similarities with Balkanites

Roy

08-23-2019, 09:32 AM

This is very good summary about Lemko and Rusyns:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lemkos

This singer Igor Herbut from Poland is Lemko.

https://ocdn.eu/pulscms-transforms/1/FOok9kpTURBXy9hNGE4OGY5NDZlZmE4NTMyYzYzNWY2NTFlMGJ hZWFhOS5qcGeTlQMBAM0D580CMZMFzQMUzQG8kwmmMWMzYWMxB oGhMAE/igor-herbut.jpg

Within the contemporary boundaries of Poland you won't find historical Hutsul lands (only Lemko & Boyko).

Nurzat

09-01-2019, 08:48 PM

I used 3 results from my mom's county to simulate her result and projected my dad's result symmetrically around my K13:

father (simulated/projected):
Baltic 34.23
North_Atlantic 26.40
West_Med 16.96
West_Asian 11.32
East_Med 6.87

compare to already posted Boyko K13:
Baltic 34.92
North_Atlantic 26.87
West_Med 15.12
East_Med 15.09
West_Asian 5.00

Hutsul (Ivano Frankivsk, the one in the OP):
Baltic 36.37
North_Atlantic 28.05
West_Med 13.56
East_Med 9.61
West_Asian 6.71

K13 has these 5 principal components that swallow almost everything, maybe some other calc would be more relevant

Peterski

09-13-2019, 05:04 AM

Here is an academic Ukrainian sample from Chernivtsi Oblast from a scientific study:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernivtsi_Oblast

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/Chernivtsi_in_Ukraine.svg/500px-Chernivtsi_in_Ukraine.svg.png

Eurogenes K15:

179026 SNPs used in this evaluation

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 22.56
2 North_Sea 18.75
3 Eastern_Euro 15.26
4 Atlantic 14.1
5 West_Med 10.7
6 East_Med 6.81
7 West_Asian 6.25
8 Red_Sea 1.84
9 Siberian 1.21
10 Northeast_African 1.1
11 Amerindian 0.88
12 Oceanian 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.04
2 Croatian 3.61
3 Hungarian 6.46
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.05
5 Ukrainian 7.87
6 South_Polish 8.01
7 Serbian 9.12
8 Austrian 9.32
9 Polish 10.69
10 East_German 11.09
11 Romanian 11.14
12 Russian_Smolensk 11.36
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 11.45
14 Southwest_Russian 11.79
15 Estonian_Polish 13.37
16 Bulgarian 13.39
17 Belorussian 13.42
18 Kargopol_Russian 14.55
19 Finnish 15.07
20 Southwest_Finnish 15.23

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 78.6% Ukrainian + 21.4% East_Sicilian @ 2.11
2 80.3% Ukrainian + 19.7% South_Italian @ 2.29
3 63.7% Ukrainian + 36.3% Bulgarian @ 2.3
4 78.3% Ukrainian + 21.7% Central_Greek @ 2.31
5 84.2% Moldavian + 15.8% Polish @ 2.33
6 79.4% Moldavian + 20.6% Ukrainian @ 2.33
7 74.4% Ukrainian + 25.6% Greek @ 2.34
8 77.5% Moldavian + 22.5% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.36
9 88.8% Moldavian + 11.2% Estonian @ 2.37
10 87.4% Moldavian + 12.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.38
11 78.7% Ukrainian + 21.3% West_Sicilian @ 2.39
12 87.5% Moldavian + 12.5% Belorussian @ 2.39
13 59.2% Ukrainian + 40.8% Romanian @ 2.4
14 80.3% Moldavian + 19.7% South_Polish @ 2.4
15 89.8% Moldavian + 10.2% Lithuanian @ 2.4
16 77.9% Ukrainian + 22.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.43
17 77.8% Ukrainian + 22.2% Ashkenazi @ 2.44
18 82% Ukrainian + 18% Italian_Jewish @ 2.47
19 73.3% Ukrainian + 26.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.48
20 86.3% Moldavian + 13.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.48

Least-squares method:

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Moldavian @ 3.356271
2 Croatian @ 4.002203
3 Hungarian @ 7.448927
4 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 8.053150
5 Ukrainian @ 9.029357
6 South_Polish @ 9.122271
7 Serbian @ 10.464103
8 Austrian @ 10.740005
9 Polish @ 12.280086
10 East_German @ 12.875847
11 Romanian @ 12.940468
12 Russian_Smolensk @ 12.976109
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 13.041569
14 Southwest_Russian @ 13.473107
15 Belorussian @ 15.323155
16 Estonian_Polish @ 15.370578
17 Bulgarian @ 15.622268
18 Kargopol_Russian @ 16.592445
19 Finnish @ 17.146418
20 East_Finnish @ 17.387985

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Croatian +50% Moldavian @ 2.685662

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Moldavian +25% Moldavian +25% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.509005

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Bulgarian + Moldavian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.132436
2 Bulgarian + Moldavian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.233162
3 Erzya + Tuscan + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.312937
4 Greek + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.373522
5 Estonian_Polish + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.384955
6 Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.391674
7 Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.402984
8 Greek + Ukrainian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.424030
9 Croatian + Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.451066
10 Bulgarian + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.471354
11 Greek + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.479384
12 Bulgarian + Moldavian + South_Polish + Ukrainian @ 2.487890
13 Moldavian + Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.509005
14 Moldavian + Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.523204
15 Croatian + Moldavian + Moldavian + Ukrainian @ 2.534311
16 Bulgarian + Croatian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.536741
17 Bulgarian + Croatian + Ukrainian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.542384
18 Moldavian + Romanian + Ukrainian_Lviv + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.567497
19 Greek_Thessaly + South_Polish + Ukrainian + Ukrainian @ 2.574374
20 Estonian_Polish + Greek_Thessaly + Moldavian + Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.578305

Peterski

09-13-2019, 05:11 AM

Ukrainian from Chernivtsi Oblast (academic sample) in Eurogenes JTest:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 23.68
2 EAST_EURO 16.45
3 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 13.46
4 ATLANTIC 13.4
5 WEST_MED 10.08
6 EAST_MED 7.24
7 ASHKENAZI 7.06
8 WEST_ASIAN 4.86
9 MIDDLE_EASTERN 1.88
10 SIBERIAN 1.52
11 WEST_AFRICAN 0.37

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 HU 5.74
2 UA 10.24
3 PL 10.39
4 Serbian 10.4
5 AT 10.72
6 Ukrainian-Russian 10.98
7 RO 11.15
8 West_Russian 11.31
9 Belorussian 14.26
10 East_Russian 15.54
11 Northwest_Russian 15.99
12 South_Finnish 16.91
13 EE 16.95
14 North_Russian 17.9
15 Erzya 18.17
16 East_Finnish 18.33
17 West_&_Central_German 18.33
18 LIT 18.49
19 North_Swedish 19.16
20 NL 19.6

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.7% West_Russian + 26.3% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 3.73
2 67.9% Ukrainian-Russian + 32.1% North_Italian @ 3.77
3 50.4% RO + 49.6% West_Russian @ 3.81
4 77.2% UA + 22.8% AJ @ 3.87
5 71% West_Russian + 29% Tuscan @ 4.02
6 71.7% Ukrainian-Russian + 28.3% Tuscan @ 4.03
7 50.5% Ukrainian-Russian + 49.5% RO @ 4.09
8 59.9% RO + 40.1% Northwest_Russian @ 4.19
9 74.2% West_Russian + 25.8% GR @ 4.2
10 77.2% PL + 22.8% AJ @ 4.25
11 62.7% Northwest_Russian + 37.3% Tuscan @ 4.26
12 52.6% UA + 47.4% RO @ 4.28
13 72.5% HU + 27.5% Ukrainian-Russian @ 4.28
14 52.1% PL + 47.9% RO @ 4.29
15 67.5% West_Russian + 32.5% North_Italian @ 4.34
16 63.7% RO + 36.3% LIT @ 4.45
17 74.9% Ukrainian-Russian + 25.1% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.45
18 82.9% HU + 17.1% Erzya @ 4.45
19 76.1% PL + 23.9% South_Italian_&_Sicilian @ 4.47
20 57% RO + 43% Belorussian @ 4.51

=====

Ukrainian from Chernivtsi Oblast (academic sample) in Eurogenes K13:

177081 SNPs used in this evaluation

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.22
2 North_Atlantic 24.02
3 West_Med 14.87
4 East_Med 10.7
5 West_Asian 8.42
6 Siberian 1.97
7 Red_Sea 1.63
8 Amerindian 1.29
9 Northeast_African 1.01
10 Oceanian 0.83
11 Sub-Saharan 0.03

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 2.69
2 Croatian 3.82
3 Hungarian 8.4
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.69
5 Serbian 9.01
6 Ukrainian 9.99
7 South_Polish 10.27
8 Romanian 11.99
9 East_German 12.89
10 Austrian 12.9
11 Southwest_Russian 13.07
12 Polish 13.29
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.49
14 Bulgarian 13.7
15 Russian_Smolensk 15.03
16 Estonian_Polish 15.47
17 Belorussian 16.3
18 Kargopol_Russian 16.72
19 Erzya 18.19
20 Tatar 18.48

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 38.3% Bulgarian @ 2.23
2 91.2% Moldavian + 8.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.25
3 89.8% Moldavian + 10.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.26
4 92.5% Moldavian + 7.5% Erzya @ 2.26
5 92% Moldavian + 8% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.27
6 92% Moldavian + 8% Belorussian @ 2.29
7 75.8% Ukrainian + 24.2% East_Sicilian @ 2.31
8 93.7% Moldavian + 6.3% Lithuanian @ 2.32
9 93.9% Moldavian + 6.1% East_Finnish @ 2.32
10 72.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 27.3% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.32
11 87.7% Moldavian + 12.3% Ukrainian @ 2.32
12 75.1% Ukrainian + 24.9% Central_Greek @ 2.34
13 93.8% Moldavian + 6.2% Estonian @ 2.35
14 91.9% Moldavian + 8.1% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.36
15 77.8% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.2% Central_Greek @ 2.37
16 86.9% Moldavian + 13.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.38
17 80.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 19.9% South_Italian @ 2.39
18 94.2% Moldavian + 5.8% Finnish @ 2.39
19 91.6% Moldavian + 8.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.4
20 78.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 21.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.4

Aspirin

09-14-2019, 06:25 PM

Jana

09-14-2019, 06:28 PM

Leto

09-14-2019, 06:36 PM

This person genetically Moldovan.
Well, he has the same amount of Baltic as the Bosniak I posted earlier today. However, you can see he is still too Slavic for the Moldovan/Romanian cluster (+ 9-10% Russian/East Slavic)

91.2% Moldavian + 8.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.25
89.8% Moldavian + 10.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.26

Jana

09-14-2019, 06:40 PM

Well, he has the same amount of Baltic as the Bosniak I posted earlier today. However, you can see he is still too Slavic for the Moldovan/Romanian cluster (+ 9-10% Russian/East Slavic)

91.2% Moldavian + 8.8% Estonian_Polish @ 2.25
89.8% Moldavian + 10.2% Southwest_Russian @ 2.26

True, but still pretty close (90% similar to Moldovan reference). Very few people are exactly like their reference population, which is a midpoint from all tested samples.

Leto

09-14-2019, 06:46 PM

True, but still pretty close (90% similar to Moldovan reference). Very few people are exactly like their reference population, which is a midpoint from all tested samples.
Yeah, sure, for Ukraine that is one of the most, if not the most, Balkanic-shifted individuals I've seen.

UA average

Ukrainian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 43.57
2 North_Atlantic 27.77
3 West_Med 12.05
4 West_Asian 6.12
5 East_Med 5.68
6 Siberian 1.41
7 South_Asian 1.09
8 East_Asian 0.91
9 Amerindian 0.78
10 Oceanian 0.28
11 Red_Sea 0.16

Aspirin

09-14-2019, 06:46 PM

This person genetically Moldovan. When do you think your 23andme results will be ready ? I'm curious.

This is just an academic sample, no need to make quick conclusion, the genetic landscape in that region seems to be very heterogeneous because except local population of Rusyns who lived in that region for centuries, in the past 200-250 years after Moldova lost that lands, plenty of Ukrainians from Galicia and Podolia moved here. Plus till today, the bigest minority there are Moldavians, maybe this person have some Moldavian ancestry (he still plots Northern of Moldavian average), or maybe have origins from Carpathian Slavs, same as Moldavians from RM with recent Ukrainain ancestry (for example in my area all Ukrainians are not natives for this land, all of them are newcomers in the past 200-100 years).

Peterski

09-19-2019, 06:01 AM

This is just an academic sample, no need to make quick conclusion, the genetic landscape in that region seems to be very heterogeneous because except local population of Rusyns who lived in that region for centuries, in the past 200-250 years after Moldova lost that lands, plenty of Ukrainians from Galicia and Podolia moved here. Plus till today, the bigest minority there are Moldavians, maybe this person have some Moldavian ancestry (he still plots Northern of Moldavian average), or maybe have origins from Carpathian Slavs, same as Moldavians from RM with recent Ukrainain ancestry (for example in my area all Ukrainians are not natives for this land, all of them are newcomers in the past 200-100 years).

According to Eupedia nearly all of Ukraine has quite strong Balkan admixture (probably except for North-Eastern Ukraine):

https://i.imgur.com/sVql09a.png

A sample from Zhytomyr Oblast from the same study also has some, but not as much as that Chernivtsi sample of course.

andre

09-19-2019, 09:08 AM

Ukrainians in the south western part are mixed with the balkanic people;
In the dark age, the slavic tribes (north shifted) admix with local Costoboces (https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Costoboci)(thracians with probably some celtic); then in the middle ages (1000-1500) they assimilated Cartpathic Vlachs.. and voilà we have a “Croatian” effect; that’s my theory.

vbnetkhio

10-03-2019, 02:19 PM

these Ukrainians might have ancestry from the Moldovan Daco-Scythians, not Romanian admixture as i thought

look in which direction the most southwestern Ukrainians are pulled (the crimson/dark red squares)
https://i.imgur.com/sejUatm.png

this is where those Daco-Scythians plot (like modern north Italians)
https://i.imgur.com/kDPJO2r.png

hawklutz86

10-18-2023, 04:01 AM

Similar to results of that Boyko what I posted earlier here. Chernivtsi Oblast historically is the Northern part of old Moldavian Principality, who became part of Ukraine only after WW2.
I'm that Boyko. R1a-Y654(Young Masovian Branch), H3g mtDNA. On my mom's line I'm the descendant of Drago-Sas noble family from Maramures - the founder is considered to be the legendary Dragos Voda. My father's last name is Lutsyk - they moved from the area close to Rava-Ruska to near Staryi Sambir in the 16th c. There is even a village with that name there still - Lutsyky (literally the Lutsyks). I checked his family - there's nobody exceeding 10% of East Mediterranean(an interesting fact - even his more northern village was called Kamianka Voloska (Vlach Kamianka). So, my mom must be somewhere close to 20% of that admix (if not more).
123873

Transylvania (Maramures) Gothic style defensive church in my mom's village of Rosokhy (the nearby village is called Voloshynovo - Vlach village) built by the newcomers in the 16c.:
123874

Aspirin

10-18-2023, 06:57 PM

I'm that Boyko. R1a-Y654(Young Masovian Branch), H3g mtDNA. On my mom's line I'm the descendant of Drago-Sas noble family from Maramures - the founder is considered to be the legendary Dragos Voda. My father's last name is Lutsyk - they moved from the area close to Rava-Ruska to near Staryi Sambir in the 16th c. There is even a village with that name there still - Lutsyky (literally the Lutsyks). I checked his family - there's nobody exceeding 10% of East Mediterranean(an interesting fact - even his more northern village was called Kamianka Voloska (Vlach Kamianka). So, my mom must be somewhere close to 20% of that admix (if not more).

Transylvania (Maramures) Gothic style defensive church in my mom's village of Rosokhy (the nearby village is called Voloshynovo - Vlach village) built by the newcomers in the 16c.:
123874

Yes, I know you. You are the user Galychanyn from Balto-Slavica. You have some interesting old threads on Balto-Slavica.

That church is specific Rusyn/Ukrainian, Romanians don't have such type of churches, especially these from Maramures. Still some influence can be found in Moldova region only, and only between wooden churches.

hawklutz86

10-19-2023, 01:27 AM

Well, Ukrainian architects refer the church to the "Transylvanian Gothic style". By the way, descendants of Dragos Voda also built similar monastery of Sepanta Peri in Maramures on the border with Ukraine.
Autosomally, I'm very close to the Ukrainians of Tyachiv and Khust districts of Zakarpatya - i.e. very close to Bedevlya one of the probable locations for Dragos Voda.
The only problem I have is - in K13 high East Mediterranean is accompanied by very low West Asian and Red Sea for the amount of East Mediterranean admix. Is it possible to pinpoint the location of my Vlach admixture or, at least, where Dragos Voda came from originally?

P.S. My father's side village on the border with Poland is Velykosillya (formerly Nanczulka Velyka). It was founded on an empty spot by three brothers: Ilya, Prokop and Fedir Nanciul. They supposedly came from Transylvania.
K13 of my grandmother's cousin from the same village:

North_Atlantic 27.9 Pct
Baltic 39.3 Pct
West_Med 13.46 Pct
West_Asian 6.2 Pct
East_Med 8.22 Pct
Red_Sea -
South_Asian 1.76 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 2.05 Pct
Amerindian 0.61 Pct
Oceanian 0.47 Pct
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan -