Is Ukrainian heptathlete Alina Shukh the most extreme example of East Baltid?

[Blinddignity]

Or rather Ladogan influence? Her epicanthic folds are nearly on par with some East Asians.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/lBpRWcJKq50/maxresdefault.jpg

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/b51413dd2788a6978ed2dab5dfbbaf08/5DDBD90F/t51.2885-15/sh0.08/e35/c0.180.1440.1440a/s640x640/69214343_117434116018516_2755216691218283599_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/8d58e4cef814891f6ae972e7dbc87203/5DFAA537/t51.2885-19/s320x320/23507953_1516228771787637_2796220676896194560_n.jp g?_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/e8d952c8c8be45e7e1a8f91667d1bb3a/5E0FF633/t51.2885-15/e35/52153148_119205619197326_3182133943789312910_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com

https://scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com/vp/50d4c7db82ea57e6863fcdb9e5e79c8c/5DF74B7B/t51.2885-15/e35/p1080x1080/62038869_133263471205009_4574552195701816196_n.jpg ?_nc_ht=scontent-lht6-1.cdninstagram.com

https://www.european-athletics.org/mm/Photo/News/General/01/28/70/21/1287021_G08_W01.jpg

[Laag]

Ladogan

[michal3141]

Eurasian Steppes are strong in her.

[Blinddignity]

Ladogan

Knew you'd come @Laag. How rare do you think Ladogan is in Ukraine?

[Laag]

Knew you'd come @Laag. How rare do you think Ladogan is in Ukraine?

I think Alpine is more common than Ladogan for sure.

[The One]

She probably has a decent chunk of ANE

[michal3141]

She probably has a decent chunk of ANE

Probably not much more than an average Ukrainian.

[Viridian1]

Too much Nordid on her to be the purest East Baltic.

8/10 btw :P

[Leader]

Proto-Nordid + some Savolaxid.

No Ladogan in her.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

If East Baltids are supposed to look only moderately chinky, isn't it possible to look too chinky for East Baltid?

Apart from the eyes, she doesn't look very East Baltid, because her face is fairly narrow and elongated, and because she has a fairly long nose with a straight (and even slightly wavy) bridge of the nose.

Ladogans are supposed to have a "wide, heavy mandible" according to HPT, but her mandible is not very large.

[mutabor]

Her last name is of Ashkenazi Jewish origin. She looks like Nordid + little Uralid/Sibirid

[Alenka]

No, far from it. She's mostly Nordid, it's only her eyes that show East-Baltid influence. East-Baltid has a concave, snub, low-rooted nose; and a wide, round face; while she has the very opposite of that. She also seems dolicho while East-Baltid is brachy.

[Norb]

Nordid

[Nurzat]

she is not East Baltid

[Roy]

She is mostly Nordid, so no.

[mutabor]

No, far from it. She's mostly Nordid, it's only her eyes that show East-Baltid influence. East-Baltid has a concave, snub, low-rooted nose; and a wide, round face; while she has the very opposite of that. She also seems dolicho while East-Baltid is brachy.

What do you think about her mother?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ym5aXRlGW_U/maxresdefault.jpg

[aherne]

Aryan + Uralic. Very typical in Finland and Estonia. There are Hungarians with similar look as well... For an Ukrainian she's extremely atypical

[Zroota]

She is not "mostly Nordid". Her chin is weak as well.

A mix of Volgid and East Baltid.

[Viridian1]

What do you think about her mother?

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/ym5aXRlGW_U/maxresdefault.jpg

Her mom isn't purest East Nordid either but rather Gorid and Neo-Danubian.

[Leader]

She is not "mostly Nordid". Her chin is weak as well.

A mix of Volgid and East Baltid.

She cannot be Volgid-East Baltid. She is too long-and-narrow-nosed, narrow-faced, and light-pigmented for that. Nordids in eastern Europe have chins different from those around Germany.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

She cannot be Volgid-East Baltid. She is too long-and-narrow-nosed, narrow-faced, and light-pigmented for that.

According to Bunak (1932) (Neues Material zur Aussonderung anthropologischer Typen unter der Bevölkerung Osteuropas) (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroscape/eastern-european-types-of-bunak-t30242.html), Volgids had 15% light eyes and a facial index of 88 (boundary of mesoprosopic and leptoprosopic):


D2) Volga Subrace / Sub Uralic

Distribution:
Mari, Chuvash, Volga-Finns, mixed in Ryazan population (Mordwa variant)

Light Eyes: 15 %
Strong Beard Growth: 21 %
Cephalic Index: 80
Facial Index: 88
Nasal Index: 72
Height: 163 cm

The prevalence of light-colored eyes should be much higher than 15% among Maris, but maybe light-eyed Maris were not classified as Volgid by Bunak.

[Laag]

According to Bunak (1932) (Neues Material zur Aussonderung anthropologischer Typen unter der Bevölkerung Osteuropas) (https://www.tapatalk.com/groups/anthroscape/eastern-european-types-of-bunak-t30242.html), Volgids had 15% light eyes and a facial index of 88 (boundary of mesoprosopic and leptoprosopic):


D2) Volga Subrace / Sub Uralic

Distribution:
Mari, Chuvash, Volga-Finns, mixed in Ryazan population (Mordwa variant)

Light Eyes: 15 %
Strong Beard Growth: 21 %
Cephalic Index: 80
Facial Index: 88
Nasal Index: 72
Height: 163 cm

The prevalence of light-colored eyes should be much higher than 15% among Maris, but maybe light-eyed Maris were not classified as Volgid by Bunak.

Actually he did not classify the Mari as Volgids. He gave Mari men below as examples Uralische race. He considered most Mari people to be of this type.
https://i.imgur.com/FBsfTgl.jpg

The term "Volgid" was coined by ludman.


Named and defined by Lundman (1967) , who also called it Wjatkid. It is synonymous with the Sub Uralic of Bunak (1932) and Alexeev (1979), among others. Similar to the Volga Kama complex of Alexseeva (1965). Biasutti (1967) placed it in Uralid.
http://humanphenotypes.net/Volgid.html

The figure 15% light eyes is only 9-12 on Bunak scale. He didn't give percentages for each eye type.

Here's some data on eye color of the Mari people.
Zenkevich found that 63% of Mari people have 7-12 on Bunak scale and Zolotareva found 54,7%.
https://i.imgur.com/cOuq3Yw.jpg

[CommonSense]

I wouldn't say Baltid, more like a Nordid mixed with some pure mongoloid type.

[Salonikios]

Cuman

[21993]

No. She looks Ladogan.

[chociprasa]

Gorid + Neo-Danubian.

[Salonikios]

She can play Cuman princess in a movie. Joke aside she looks Russian Baltid.

[aherne]

There is no Turanid in her. If so, she wouldn't have been so blonde... Phenotype wise, she's a Nordic (in the right meaning) of eastern derivation (Finno-Ugrian). Probably Corded-Ladogan mix.

[Laag]

If East Baltids are supposed to look only moderately chinky, isn't it possible to look too chinky for East Baltid?

Apart from the eyes, she doesn't look very East Baltid, because her face is fairly narrow and elongated, and because she has a fairly long nose with a straight (and even slightly wavy) bridge of the nose.

Ladogans are supposed to have a "wide, heavy mandible" according to HPT, but her mandible is not very large.

Actually I think she looks kinda off for Finno-Ugric standards because of her eyes. She has Turanic vibe.
She looks like this Magyar from Coon, he also have Turanic vibe and such eyes. Coon gave his as an example Ladogan type.
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe021.jpg

These individuals (Ladogan type) have completely different appearance and eyes.
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe022.jpg
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe023.jpg
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe024.jpg

[Laag]

Even Nenets people don't have such eyes. Although the word "even" could be wrong because Nenets are the opposite of Turanids, Turks and other brown people.


https://i.imgur.com/wBievIQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8ZHAHhY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/579ylMK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ulZHex0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XZ7xNJ3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kZGpG4Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IJ1IZmI.jpg

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Actually he did not classify the Mari as Volgids. He gave Mari men below as examples Uralische race. He considered most Mari people to be of this type.
https://i.imgur.com/FBsfTgl.jpg

The term "Volgid" was coined by Lundman.

Yeah but the caption of the image you posted says that the Mari men numbered 2 and 3 are examples of "Mittel-Wolga-Subrasse", which corresponds to Volgid:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i622/1206/af/d508db4d2202.jpg


Here's some data on eye color of the Mari people.
Zenkevich found that 63% of Mari people have 7-12 on Bunak scale and Zolotareva found 54,7%.

That seems too high, especially if it doesn't include green eyes (6 on Bunak scale). In a table based on Karin Mark's data set published in a Polish blog (https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/statystyki-krajow-regionow-populacji/europa/ludy-ugrofinskie-antropologia-fizyczna#uwagi-do-danych-w-tabeli-2), 27.6% of Maris were listed as having light eyes (which according to a comment above the table should correspond to 9-12 on the Bunak scale), and 52.3% were listed as having mixed eyes (which should correspond to 5-8 on the Bunak scale). However there's something wrong with the data in that table, or it's not actually based on the Bunak scale, because the prevalence of dark eyes is way too low for most populations.

Have the studies by Zenkevich or Zolotareva been published online?

[Laag]

Yeah but the caption of the image you posted says that the Mari men numbered 2 and 3 are examples of "Mittel-Wolga-Subrasse", which corresponds to Volgid:

http://s019.radikal.ru/i622/1206/af/d508db4d2202.jpg



That seems too high, especially if it doesn't include green eyes (6 on Bunak scale). In a table based on Karin Mark's data set published in a Polish blog (https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/statystyki-krajow-regionow-populacji/europa/ludy-ugrofinskie-antropologia-fizyczna#uwagi-do-danych-w-tabeli-2), 27.6% of Maris were listed as having light eyes (which according to a comment above the table should correspond to 9-12 on the Bunak scale), and 52.3% were listed as having mixed eyes (which should correspond to 5-8 on the Bunak scale). However there's something wrong with the data in that table, or it's not actually based on the Bunak scale, because the prevalence of dark eyes is way too low for most populations.

Have the studies by Zenkevich or Zolotareva been published online?

Zolotareva
https://i.imgur.com/YIIagUe.jpg
Zenkevich
https://i.imgur.com/rDFTRa0.jpg

[Atlantid]

She has Genghis Khan as an ancestor 100%.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Actually I think she looks kinda off for Finno-Ugric standards because of her eyes. She has Turanic vibe.
She looks like this Magyar from Coon, he also have Turanic vibe and such eyes. Coon gave his as an example Ladogan type.
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe021.jpg

These individuals (Ladogan type) have completely different appearance and eyes.
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe022.jpg
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe023.jpg
https://theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe024.jpg

Even Nenets people don't have such eyes. Although the word "even" could be wrong because Nenets are the opposite of Turanids, Turks and other brown people.


https://i.imgur.com/wBievIQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/8ZHAHhY.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/579ylMK.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/ulZHex0.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/XZ7xNJ3.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/kZGpG4Z.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/IJ1IZmI.jpg


What about this Finnish girl I posted earlier?

https://i.imgur.com/U6In2zn.jpg

Or what about the girl on the left in this photo of Udmurts?

https://i.imgur.com/kmy2pG0.jpg
Young women in festive attire - Udmurts - 1925
http://collection.kunstkamera.ru/entity/OBJECT/128554

Anyway, East Baltids are supposed to look only moderately chinky, so even if someone would look "extremely East Baltid", I don't know if it would entail also looking extremely chinky.

[Laag]

What about this Finnish girl I posted earlier?

https://i.imgur.com/U6In2zn.jpg

Or what about the girl on the left in this photo of Udmurts?

https://i.imgur.com/kmy2pG0.jpg
Young women in festive attire - Udmurts - 1925
http://collection.kunstkamera.ru/entity/OBJECT/128554

Anyway, East Baltids are supposed to look only moderately chinky, so even if someone would look "extremely East Baltid", I don't know if it would entail also looking extremely chinky.

They don't give me Turanic vibe.
This Finn has a similar eye shape as that Maygar but he doesn't look Turkic/Turanic and his eyes don't look Turkic/Turanic at all.
https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQEyvyuYN5o9qQaZvMY9AtX6NbdZZVC3 qZ2PgbPmVLtdkUAb1I7&s