Brazil vs USA: which country is more European genetically?

[Scandal]

title

[WeirdLookingFellow]

One pocket of mostly Europeans in the very south of a huge country vs a country that was around 85% European until 1965? I don't think there's much competition.

[Smeagol]

Lol, USA by far. Don't see how this is a debate.

[Scandal]

One pocket of mostly Europeans in the very south of a huge country vs a country that was around 85% European until 1965? I don't think there's much competition.

Brazil is between 50 and 80% Euro genetically depending on the region: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brazil#Genetic_studies

According to 2017 census USA is 73% white (10% of that are hispanic whites).

So I think they're comparable in terms of Europeanness.

What makes them look different: (1) Brazilians are mostly mixed race, even a little black/amerindian blood is enough to make one look "brown". (2) Most of the European dna in Brazil is Southern European, while most of the European dna in USA is northern European

[Scandal]

Lol, USA by far. Don't see how this is a debate.

By far? How so?

[Smeagol]

By far? How so?

America has a majority (around 63%) of real whites. Brazil is a mostly mixed race country and even the "whites" there are often mixed according to genetic studies.

[Scandal]

America has a majority (around 63%) of real whites.

Similar % to Brazil according to genetic studies.

I am not saying Brazil is as white as USA. This thread is not about phenotypes, but genetics.

[Smeagol]

Similar % to Brazil according to genetic studies.

I am not saying Brazil is as white as USA. This thread is not about phenotypes, but genetics.

No way are 63% of Brazilians 98-100% European.

[Scandal]

No way are 63% of Brazilians 98-100% European.

Ok, and? I think there was a little misunderstanding between us. I am not claiming % of pure whites in Brazil is similar to USA.

Most of Brazilian population is "pardo", and pardos are mostly of European ancestry.

[Smeagol]

Ok, and? I am not claiming % of pure whites in Brazil is similar to USA.

Most of Brazilian population is "pardo", and pardos are mostly of European ancestry.

If you're just adding up the entire population of both countries and taking an average, then it would be closer. (USA would still be more European though.) But that wouldn't really tell you anything meaningful because that average wouldn't actually represent the majority of either country's citizens. USA has a white majority and Brazil has a mixed race majority.

[luc2112]

No way are 63% of Brazilians 98-100% European.

Yes it's correct, part of the 74% Euro is diluted in our mix population. By my deductions, gene pool SSA Brazil/US are similar.

[Blondie]

I'd say USA

[luc2112]

If you're just adding up the entire population of both countries and taking an average, then it would be closer. (USA would still be more European though.) But that wouldn't really tell you anything meaningful because that average wouldn't actually represent the majority of either country's citizens. USA has a white majority and Brazil has a mixed race majority.

Brazil is 53% Pardo and 47% White (self-declaration). The forecast is that its non-euro population will be similar in percentage, this worries conservative whites.

[Smeagol]

Brazil is 53% Pardo and 47% White (self-declaration). The forecast is that its non-euro population will be similar in percentage, this worries conservative whites.

Are blacks included in the Pardo category?

[luc2112]

Are blacks included in the Pardo category?

Yes, Pardo = (blacks/mulatto, mestizo, tri-racial) : White (Euro and Euro-Creoles).

[Leto]

The US is ca. 60% non-Hispanic white today and those are mostly full or almost full (>95%) Europeans. Also most US Latinos are at least 50-60% European by ancestry. African Americans are ca. 20% European genetically.
I'm less familiar with Brazilian racial demographics as there are conflicting studies and claims. But I'm sure it's no more than 70% European on average. Maybe 35-40% of the pop are 85+% European (i.e. passable as white), I don't know.

[Bakha]

USA

[Adamastor]

I'm less familiar with Brazilian racial demographics as there are conflicting studies and claims. But I'm sure it's no more than 70% European on average. Maybe 35-40% of the pop are 85+% European (i.e. passable as white), I don't know.

There are no conflicting studies actually, most Brazilian studies tend to more or less agree with each other. What probably causes confusion in you is the activity of trolls and uninformed users regarding Brazilian genetics here on TA. If you look at the threads posted by Argentinian user Argentano (in his threads he only uses academic data) you'd see Brazilian studies are actually among the most accurate in the New World, many users commenting on Brazilian genetics here (especially Latin Americans and some uninformed Brazilians) are not really informed on the matter. There are almost 100 academic studies made on Brazil in most sectors of the population and with representative samples from all racial groups and social classes.

Brazil as a whole is around 74% European, 18% SSA and 8-10% Amerindian. I guess USA would be around 75-78% European and the rest mostly SSA with a mix of different stuff: Amerindian, Asian, MENA etc.

But the main difference is what other users told us: around 60% of American population is 99-100% European, only 10% of Brazilians are 99-100% European (but much more Brazilians are 80%+ European).

Given the fact both countries are very large and demographically diverse I think it would be better to compare different regions inside them than the countries as whole.

The whitest region of USA (Midwest) is whiter than whitest region of Brazil (South) since the whitest Brazilian region still has a good number of pardos, but I think some parts of USA are less white than parts of Brazil.

Southern US states, New York, parts of California are certainly less white phenotypically and genetically than parts of Southern and Southeastern Brazil.

[Leto]

There are no conflicting studies actually, most Brazilian studies tend to more or less agree with each other. What probably causes confusion in you is the activity of trolls and uninformed users regarding Brazilian genetics here on TA. If you look at the threads posted by Argentinian user Argentano (in his threads he only uses academic data) you'd see Brazilian studies are actually among the most accurate in the New World, many users commenting on Brazilian genetics here (especially Latin Americans and some uninformed Brazilians) are not really informed on the matter. There are almost 100 academic studies made on Brazil in most sectors of the population and with representative samples from all racial groups and social classes.

Brazil as a whole is around 74% European, 18% SSA and 8-10% Amerindian. I guess USA would be around 75-78% European and the rest mostly SSA with a mix of different stuff: Amerindian, Asian, MENA etc.

But the main difference is what other users told us: around 60% of American population is 99-100% European, only 10% of Brazilians are 99-100% European (but much more Brazilians are 80%+ European).

Given the fact both countries are very large and demographically diverse I think it would be better to compare different regions inside them than the countries as whole.

The whitest region of USA (Midwest) is whiter than whitest region of Brazil (South) since the whitest Brazilian region still has a good number of pardos, but I think some parts of USA are less white than parts of Brazil.

Southern US states, New York, parts of California are certainly less white phenotypically and genetically than parts of Southern and Southeastern Brazil.
74% is a lot, why the hell are visible Blacks so overrepresented in the media? A lot of people think Brazil is like half SSA. I know it's wrong but I thought it was more like 65% European on average, not 74% as you said.

[luc2112]

74% is a lot, why the hell are visible Blacks so overrepresented in the media? A lot of people think Brazil is like half SSA. I know it's wrong but I thought it was more like 65% European on average, not 74% as you said.

74% it is not lot, if you consider that the euro is diluted in browns. From Brazil only show blacks (mulattos) and Favelas (6% of total population).

[luc2112]

I'm less familiar with Brazilian racial demographics as there are conflicting studies and claims.
What conflict did you encounter?

[Ranger0075]

tOday it is EEUU, but in some decades it will be Brazil and it has nothing to do with immigration
Check how european brazilian genetics is diluted in their entire population, while in US it is concentrated in people who likes to create cats instead taking care about children jajaja

[OdisseusOfiucus]

For the moment USA and by a long shot. Genetic studies proves that most self-reported whites in USA are 98-100% european. In other hand; most hispanic whites and non-whites(the second important group) tend to be pred- european(like 50-70%). While brazilians brown people could be more european than hispanic whites, non-white hispanic and blacks, brazilian "whites" are not only a minority(less than 48%), those white brazilians are less european than USA non-hispanic whites.

Other words.
Non-hispanic white americans(63% USAs population )>white brazilians(48% or less of brazilian population)
*Brown brazilians>hispanic whites and hispanic non-whites.
Black brazilians<=american hispanic non-whites.
Black brazilians(like 7% Brazilian population )>black americans(like 13% of brazilian population).

We can conclude that USA is has more complete whites but brazilian brown people tend to be more european.

Take in account that original american hispanic people were more european (people from New Mexico). But hispanic inmigration from Central/South Mexico and Central Americans+low white birth rates are turning brown americans less european and more important into american % demographics.

[OdisseusOfiucus]

USA has more full whites in %, but brazilian brown people are more european than americans non-hispanic whites.

Its probably that Brazil in a future would be more european because USA's whites have low birth rates and mexican and central american inmigration is turning it into less european while brown people are gaining numbers in %.

[luc2112]

We can conclude that USA is has more complete whites but brazilian brown people tend to be more european.


Correct.

[Bellbeaking]

USA demographics (2017 - from the wiki page) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race)
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 56,510,571 17.6%
White (non-Hispanic) 197,277,789 61.5%
Black or African American (non-Hispanic) 39,445,495 12.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native (non-Hispanic) 2,098,763 0.7%
Asian (non-Hispanic) 16,989,540 5.3%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (non-Hispanic) 515,522 0.2%
Some other race (non-Hispanic) 715,432 0.2%
Two or more races 7,451,295 2.3%

61 + 12.3/6 + 17.6/(5/3) = 73.6 (just a rough estimate of whiteness in USA). This compares to around 74% for Brazil according to Argentano's posts. I think hispanic americans might be a bit whiter, than 3/5's maybe IDK.

I must be making a big mistake here, is Brazil really comparable in European ancestry to the USA? This goes against my priors hard lolz.

[luc2112]

I will give an example:

50% white and 50% SSA. If the population is segregated will maintain the proportion, if complete miscegenation is done, the population will be 100% mulatto or 100% Pardo.

-In past decades the white population was larger, today the Pardo population has surpassed, fortunately it did not significantly alter the country's policy.

-Historically Brazil had more slaves, but the American SSA population had a high birth rate.

-

[OdisseusOfiucus]

USA demographics (2017 - from the wiki page) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race)
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 56,510,571 17.6%
White (non-Hispanic) 197,277,789 61.5%
Black or African American (non-Hispanic) 39,445,495 12.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native (non-Hispanic) 2,098,763 0.7%
Asian (non-Hispanic) 16,989,540 5.3%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (non-Hispanic) 515,522 0.2%
Some other race (non-Hispanic) 715,432 0.2%
Two or more races 7,451,295 2.3%

60 + 12.3/6 + 17.6/(5/3) = 72.6 Roughly (just a rough estimate. This compares to around 74% for Brazil according to Argentano's posts. I think hispanic americans might be a bit whiter, than 3/5's maybe IDK.

I must be making a big mistake here, Brazil cannot be whiter than the USA.

Of course. USA is far whiter than Brasil. Even if brazilian brown people are more european, they look less caucassian than american brown people (mainly hispanics). But we are talking in a genetical way.

[Bellbeaking]

Of course. USA is far whiter than Brasil. Even if brazilian brown people are more european, they look less caucassian than american brown people (mainly hispanics). But we are talking in a genetical way.

Yes I edited my comment to reflect this before you replied. It is still surprising to me that the two countries are comparable in the percentage of European ancestry.

[luc2112]

USA demographics (2017 - from the wiki page) (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demography_of_the_United_States#Race)
Hispanic or Latino (of any race) 56,510,571 17.6%
White (non-Hispanic) 197,277,789 61.5%
Black or African American (non-Hispanic) 39,445,495 12.3%
American Indian and Alaska Native (non-Hispanic) 2,098,763 0.7%
Asian (non-Hispanic) 16,989,540 5.3%
Native Hawaiian and Other Pacific Islander (non-Hispanic) 515,522 0.2%
Some other race (non-Hispanic) 715,432 0.2%
Two or more races 7,451,295 2.3%

61 + 12.3/6 + 17.6/(5/3) = 73.6 (just a rough estimate of whiteness in USA). This compares to around 74% for Brazil according to Argentano's posts. I think hispanic americans might be a bit whiter, than 3/5's maybe IDK.

I must be making a big mistake here, is Brazil really comparable in European ancestry to the USA? This goes against my priors hard lolz.

Consider:
White: 95% Euro
Latinos (work class Mestizos): 40% Euro
Afro-American : 22% Euro

Latam_Iberian (White-Creoles, Middle class): Brazilian, Cuban expatriates and Venezuelans expatriates: 95-85 Euro

[luc2112]

I must be making a big mistake here, is Brazil really comparable in European ancestry to the USA? This goes against my priors hard lolz.

As genetic curiosity is not commenting error. Brazilian numbers are partial, some capitals were sampled, but it's not inconsistent for the euro part.

Brazil has a total middle class of 34%, this class is the dominant, educated, enterprising and politics (but leftists can ruin everything and turn the country into a mess).

US is mostly immigrant, comparable to eurozone of Brazil who also received immigrants (south, interior of São Paulo and south of Minas Gerais) are the best cities.

Look at the map: Blue = Euro (All colored points on the white map are people)

https://i.postimg.cc/C14Z7CS7/map.jpg

[21993]

USA

[Carlito's Way]

USA of course lol

[Latinus]

USA, of course, both in genetics and phenotype.

[luc2112]

Here are some studies of @Argentano posts

https://i.postimg.cc/0y1cqmrY/GED.jpg

Brazil on the left will look like Colombia when more Brazilian cities are sampled


https://i.imgur.com/D3KL3EF.png

Creoles (LATAM definition)

[PaleoEuropean]

Is this even a question lmao xD

[Black Panther]

Brazil is 53% Pardo and 47% White (self-declaration). The forecast is that its non-euro population will be similar in percentage, this worries conservative whites.

According to more recent surveys, 47% of Brazilians identifiy as Pardo, 43% White, 9% as Black and 1% as East Asian or Native American.

[Black Panther]

Only delusional "racialist" Brazilians think the country is either as White or Whiter (:picard1:) than America. This new wave of Brazilian users on TA is awful.

[luc2112]

According to more recent surveys, 47% of Brazilians identifiy as Pardo, 43% White, 9% as Black and 1% as East Asian or Native American.

Is self-declaration the number of blacks should increase.

[Black Panther]

Is self-declaration the number of blacks should increase.

The new IBGE census in 2020 will be interesting.

[luc2112]

The new IBGE census in 2020 will be interesting.

Yes, Mulattos will self-declare as black.

[Black Panther]

Yes, Mulattos will self-declare as black.

Yep. Pardos are all mestizos.