What the hell is Nietszche talking about?

[Curtis24]

Aph. 341 The greatest weight.—What, if some day or night a demon were to steal after you into your loneliest loneliness and say to you: "This life as you now live it and have lived it, you will have to live once more and innumerable times more; and there will be nothing new in it, but every pain and every joy and every thought and sigh and everything unutterably small or great in your life will have to return to you, all in the same succession and sequence—even this spider and this moonlight between the trees, and even this moment and I myself. The eternal hourglass of existence is turned upside down again and again, and you with it, speck of dust!"

Would you not throw yourself down and gnash your teeth and curse the demon who spoke thus? Or have you once experienced a tremendous moment when you would have answered him: "You are a god and never have I heard anything more divine." If this thought gained possession of you, it would change you as you are or perhaps crush you. The question in each and every thing, "Do you desire this once more and innumerable times more?" would lie upon your actions as the greatest weight. Or how well disposed would you have to become to yourself and to life to crave nothing more fervently than this ultimate eternal confirmation and seal?

[Blossom]

He was high :lol: I read Nietzsche when I was 18...and still...wondering. Its pretty interesting but I guess...I'd need some more time to understand him better :)

[Curtis24]

Yeah. I'm not sure if this quote is from the one book he wrote in the mental asylum...

[Groenewolf]

He was high :lol: I read Nietzsche when I was 18...and still...wondering. Its pretty interesting but I guess...I'd need some more time to understand him better :)

It is said that Nietizsche suffered from syphilis and was slowly going insane. But the essence is the concept of the eternal return, that everything will repeat itself infinitively. And that one should consider everything one does in this light, whether or not one once go trough every moment and every action on does an infinite times.

[Crossbow]

I sense some influence of Hinduism here, and this thought might be seen in the light of the idea of reincarnation. Nietzsche was interested in oriental religion and philosophy, in some of his works he refers to the book of 'Manu'.

[Curtis24]

It is said that Nietizsche suffered from syphilis and was slowly going insane. But the essence is the concept of the eternal return, that everything will repeat itself infinitively. And that one should consider everything one does in this light, whether or not one once go trough every moment and every action on does an infinite times.

Yeah, but the idea of everything repeating infinitely is bullshit :P

[Psychonaut]

This is relatively early Nietzsche, from The Gay Science (way pre-psychosis). What he's getting at is nothing close to Eastern garbage about reincarnation. The myth of the eternal return, illustrated here, is impelling us to live our lives as if we knew they were to be repeated ad infinitum. This is set in stark contrast to the idea of living one's life in order to reap benefits in the afterlife (a theme returned to in Thus Spoke Zarathustra). Through this myth, Nietzsche adjures us to make this life count and to live it in a way that would be worth reliving.

[Óttar]

What he's getting at is nothing close to Eastern garbage about reincarnation.
:scratch:

[Curtis24]

By the way, if any of you are confused about a different Nietszche quote or idea, feel free to post it here :)

[antonio]

I confess I didnt read a lot on Nietzche even having a old comrade who got and probably full understood all his production. From the little I know from what i read and recall from High School courses on Filosophy, I think he's one of the greatest minds ever but, at times, one of the worst lectures to be read for the most. Unless Upper-Medieval society (or Preclassical Greece) was the ideal society for these majority (I declare myself unable to show a preference at respect to current one). :D

[Psychonaut]

:scratch:

Oh c'mon, you know Nietzsche really looked down on all kinds of after-world-ism, to include Abrahamic Heavens and Eastern reincarnation. The detrimental effect that they have on the fulfillment one gets from one's only life is the same.

[Óttar]

Oh c'mon, you know Nietzsche really looked down on all kinds of after-world-ism, to include Abrahamic Heavens and Eastern reincarnation. The detrimental effect that they have on the fulfillment one gets from one's only life is the same.
The word garbage is too strong for reincarnation per se.

Anyway...

I don't see the usefulness of living as if eternal recurrence is true. I find the idea rather Hellish. I don't see how it is more useful than believing that when one dies, one ceases to exist.

Any firm stance on what happens when you die is IMO speculative.

[Edmond_Dantes]

This is relatively early Nietzsche, from The Gay Science (way pre-psychosis). What he's getting at is nothing close to Eastern garbage about reincarnation. The myth of the eternal return, illustrated here, is impelling us to live our lives as if we knew they were to be repeated ad infinitum. This is set in stark contrast to the idea of living one's life in order to reap benefits in the afterlife (a theme returned to in Thus Spoke Zarathustra). Through this myth, Nietzsche adjures us to make this life count and to live it in a way that would be worth reliving.

This, in essence. In a simple sentence: he's referring to whether, if given the choice to repeat your life in the same manner in which it was lived, you would gladly accept this offer or not. The implication is that one should live in a way in which they would gladly repeat if given the hypothetical choice - getting back to the core existentialist theme of the individual's relation to the world and authenticity to their own personal nature.

[Psychonaut]

The word garbage is too strong for reincarnation per se.

OK, is "behaviorally detrimental, empirically unfounded speculation" better? :D


Any firm stance on what happens when you die is IMO speculative.

That's just it though, what Nietzsche's proposing is not any kind of stance on post-mortem states. It's a thought experiment that uses a fiction to impel us to examine the motivations which guide our behaviors. Are we living for the afterlife or are we living for life. His purpose is to incline us towards the latter.

[Óttar]

Ahem...


I don't see the usefulness of living as if eternal recurrence is true. I find the idea rather Hellish. I don't see how it is more useful than believing that when one dies, one ceases to exist.

If anything, living as if eternal recurrence was true could be detrimental because it could give way to a paralyzing fear.

[Psychonaut]

If anything, living as if eternal recurrence was true could be detrimental because it could give way to a paralyzing fear.

Hey man, everything worked out just fine for Bill Murray's character in Groundhog Day (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groundhog_day). :cool:

[Neanderthal]

Retrospective introspection aimed to self-improvement.