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View Full Version : Which of these two groups are British Isles closer to?



Gwydion
09-01-2019, 03:27 PM
I made a rough map here, but out of the blue area which corresponds to the historic Northern Gauls, Belgae, Franks, Northern French, Normans, Bretons, Flemings, Walloons, etc. and the red area which corresponds to the historic Angles, Saxons, Jutes, Frisians, Danes, Norwegians, etc., which are the people of Britain and Ireland closer to?

I mean this overall, namely genetically, phenotypically, culturally, historic bonds, etc. though you could mention just one of those areas rather than overall. And is there a difference among the British Isles groups, such as England being closer to one vs. the other groups?

In short, the Gallo-Frankish world (blue) vs the Northwest/North Sea Germanic world (red), which are the British and Irish closer to?

https://i.imgur.com/VKX7OPw.png

Lousianaboy
09-01-2019, 03:29 PM
Gauls and Bretons

Bellbeaking
09-01-2019, 03:40 PM
Genetics:

Genetic distance:
England and Wales: Blue area
Scotland and Ireland and Northern England/Wales: Red Area

IBD Sharing:
England and Parts Scotland: Red
Ireland and Wales and Cornwall and Scotland: Blue

Phenotype and Culture is more similar to the North French and Belgians, though England and Scotland particularly have ties to the north sea area.

Gwydion
09-01-2019, 04:13 PM
In terms of historical connections during both Celtic antiquity and the Roman period the British Isles and in particular England was more closely connection with the blue area. Then with the Anglo-Saxon and Viking periods there is a greater shift to the red area, culminating perhaps with Cnut's "North Sea Empire." Thereafter though with the Norman conquest there was a greater pull back to the French/Frankish world, excluding certain areas like the Hebrides and Orkney which were still under Norwegian rule.

On the one hand England received its language from the red area, but again after the Norman conquest English high culture would have been more entwined with France/Flanders than the North Sea zone. Certain areas probably may have been more connected with the red area well into the Middle Ages and early modern period, such as Aberdeen/Northeast Scotland with its connections to Hanseatic trade.

As to phenotypes I am not expert enough to say. The border zone on the map might be where the question gets trickiest, namely are Brits and especially English more similar in appearance to Northeast French and Flemish or to North Dutch, Frisians, etc.?

Blondie
09-01-2019, 04:28 PM
To dutch :

https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-9da83d95671925cc0c614508195c59a2.webp