Kyrgyz Gedmatch results

[Sora]

Kit number: Z410649

Dodecad k12b

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 East_Asian 36.83
2 Siberian 28.49
3 North_European 10.24
4 Gedrosia 9.15
5 Caucasus 5.22
6 South_Asian 3.94
7 Southeast_Asian 3.50
8 Atlantic_Med 1.54


Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
12 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Mongol_Rasmussen @ 13.302895
2 Altai_Rasmussen @ 14.657453
3 Hazara_HGDP @ 18.418318
4 Uygur_HGDP @ 19.416971
5 Uzbeks_Behar @ 23.107710
6 Buryat_Rasmussen @ 23.776037
7 Tuva_Rasmussen @ 24.488541
8 Oroqen_HGDP @ 26.835880
9 Daur_HGDP @ 32.827450
10 Hezhen_HGDP @ 34.577419
11 Mongola_HGDP @ 35.036133
12 Xibo_HGDP @ 37.227505
13 Tu_HGDP @ 40.429337
14 Yukagir_Rasmussen @ 41.549301
15 Brahmins_from_Uttaranchal_Metspalu @ 44.882069
16 Burmanese_Chaubey @ 45.725410
17 Nogais_Yunusbayev @ 46.084423
18 Naxi_HGDP @ 46.205143
19 Garo_Chaubey @ 46.235935
20 Yizu_HGDP @ 46.683113

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Buryat_Rasmussen +50% Uygur_HGDP @ 4.168638


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Altai_Rasmussen +25% Mongola_HGDP +25% Uzbeks_Behar @ 3.251283


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Altai_Rasmussen + Oroqen_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP @ 2.667888
2 Ket_Rasmussen + Korean_Dodecad + Oroqen_HGDP + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 2.889903
3 Korean_Dodecad + Oroqen_HGDP + Selkup_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 2.961689
4 Daur_HGDP + Ket_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev + Xibo_HGDP @ 2.986029
5 Dolgan_Rasmussen + Hazara_HGDP + Korean_Dodecad + Uzbeks_Behar @ 3.029576
6 Hezhen_HGDP + Ket_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev + Xibo_HGDP @ 3.122922
7 Daur_HGDP + Selkup_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev + Xibo_HGDP @ 3.212950
8 Altai_Rasmussen + Altai_Rasmussen + Mongola_HGDP + Uzbeks_Behar @ 3.251283
9 Hezhen_HGDP + Hezhen_HGDP + Ket_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 3.335164
10 Naga_Metspalu + Tajiks_Yunusbayev + Tuva_Rasmussen + Tuva_Rasmussen @ 3.388119
11 Buryat_Rasmussen + Mongol_Rasmussen + Uygur_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP @ 3.400013
12 Hezhen_HGDP + Hezhen_HGDP + Selkup_Rasmussen + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 3.403437
13 Mongol_Rasmussen + Tuva_Rasmussen + Uygur_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP @ 3.460829
14 Oroqen_HGDP + Tuva_Rasmussen + Uygur_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP @ 3.466657
15 Dolgan_Rasmussen + Korean_Dodecad + Uygur_HGDP + Uzbeks_Behar @ 3.475111
16 Altai_Rasmussen + Hazara_HGDP + Oroqen_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP @ 3.496969
17 Dolgan_Rasmussen + Uygur_HGDP + Uygur_HGDP + Xibo_HGDP @ 3.499645
18 Dolgan_Rasmussen + Korean_Dodecad + Uzbeks_Behar + Uzbeks_Behar @ 3.512874
19 Daur_HGDP + Ket_Rasmussen + Mongola_HGDP + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 3.521160
20 Daur_HGDP + Ket_Rasmussen + Naga_Metspalu + Tajiks_Yunusbayev @ 3.564887

Harappaworld

# Population Percent
1 NE-Asian 34.48
2 Siberian 28.98
3 NE-Euro 9.46
4 Baloch 8.94
5 Caucasian 6.44
6 S-Indian 4.14
7 Beringian 3.47
8 American 1.48
9 Mediterranean 1.12


Finished reading population data. 377 populations found.
16 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 kyrgyz_hodoglugil @ 3.819224
2 kyrgyz_xing @ 4.731551
3 kazakh_harappa @ 8.246719
4 mongolian_rasmussen @ 11.905309
5 altaian_rasmussen @ 13.456576
6 hazara_hgdp @ 18.117399
7 uyghur_hgdp @ 18.548979
8 buryat_xing @ 22.340797
9 tuvinian_rasmussen @ 22.918308
10 uzbek_behar @ 23.498013
11 buryat_rasmussen @ 24.739439
12 oroqen_hgdp @ 25.418861
13 daur_hgdp @ 29.246159
14 hezhen_hgdp @ 29.988035
15 mongola_hgdp @ 31.791555
16 xibo_hgdp @ 35.396946
17 nepalese-b_xing @ 36.278542
18 yukaghir_rasmussen @ 38.862953
19 yukaghir_rasmussen @ 38.862953
20 burmanese_chaubey @ 40.382141

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% kyrgyz_hodoglugil +50% kyrgyz_hodoglugil @ 3.819224


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% kazakh_harappa +25% oroqen_hgdp +25% uyghur_hgdp @ 2.928279


Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 ket_rasmussen + nysha_reich + oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev @ 1.818423
2 aonaga_reich + ket_rasmussen + oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev @ 2.035311
3 hazara_hgdp + ket_rasmussen + kyrgyz_hodoglugil + tibet_simonson @ 2.075268
4 aonaga_reich + buryat_xing + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.106480
5 aonaga_reich + buryat_xing + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.106480
6 hazara_hgdp + ket_rasmussen + kyrgyz_xing + tibet_simonson @ 2.110578
7 buryat_xing + nysha_reich + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.190259
8 buryat_xing + nysha_reich + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.190259
9 ket_rasmussen + naga_metspalu + oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev @ 2.205201
10 buryat_xing + naga_metspalu + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.341623
11 buryat_xing + naga_metspalu + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.341623
12 ket_rasmussen + oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev + tibet_simonson @ 2.370339
13 aonaga_reich + buryat_rasmussen + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.448028
14 aonaga_reich + buryat_rasmussen + tajik_yunusbayev + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.448028
15 nysha_reich + oroqen_hgdp + selkup_rasmussen + turkmen_yunusbayev @ 2.502788
16 hazara_hgdp + ket_rasmussen + kyrgyz_xing + nysha_reich @ 2.536337
17 hazara_hgdp + kazakh_harappa + ket_rasmussen + tibet_simonson @ 2.579976
18 oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev + tibet_simonson + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.634981
19 oroqen_hgdp + tajik_yunusbayev + tibet_simonson + yukaghir_rasmussen @ 2.634981
20 hazara_hgdp + ket_rasmussen + kyrgyz_hodoglugil + nysha_reich @ 2.661565

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 40.72
2 East_Asian 24.97
3 West_Asian 12.43
4 Baltic 9.43
5 South_Asian 5.74
6 Amerindian 2.96
7 North_Atlantic 1.53
8 West_Med 1.21


Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
13 components mode.

--------------------------------

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Kirgiz @ 6.096780
2 Kazakh @ 8.780608
3 Altaian @ 10.396129
4 Hakas @ 12.144831
5 Mongolian @ 12.961523
6 Shors @ 15.377872
7 Tuvinian @ 18.672176
8 Hazara @ 20.948835
9 Buryat @ 21.368683
10 Uygur @ 22.990641
11 Uzbeki @ 23.645557
12 Afghan_Turkmen @ 26.009502
13 Aghan_Hazara @ 26.499222
14 Ket @ 32.032925
15 Oroqen @ 33.595089
16 Hezhen @ 34.338223
17 Xibo @ 34.350498
18 Selkup @ 35.530144
19 Koryak @ 35.669216
20 Chukchi @ 36.700809

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Hazara +50% Tuvinian @ 4.441376


Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Altaian +25% Hazara +25% Mongolian @ 3.946202


Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ ++++
1 Hakas + Hazara + Mongolian + Mongolian @ 3.200469
2 Afghan_Tadjik + Buryat + Japanese + Selkup @ 3.269248
3 Afghan_Pashtun + Japanese + Oroqen + Selkup @ 3.348795
4 Afghan_Tadjik + Buryat + Selkup + Tu @ 3.383462
5 Afghan_Pashtun + Evens + Selkup + She @ 3.385963
6 Afghan_Tadjik + Dolgan + Hakas + Japanese @ 3.409707
7 Buryat + Japanese + Selkup + Tadjik @ 3.430480
8 Hazara + Mongolian + Mongolian + Shors @ 3.471944
9 Afghan_Pashtun + Evens + Selkup + Tujia @ 3.474327
10 Afghan_Tadjik + Hezhen + Mongolian + Selkup @ 3.497312
11 Afghan_Pashtun + Evenki + Selkup + Tujia @ 3.516988
12 Afghan_Tadjik + Japanese + Selkup + Tuvinian @ 3.523124
13 Afghan_Pashtun + Evens + Miaozu + Selkup @ 3.539112
14 Afghan_Pashtun + Japanese + Ket + Oroqen @ 3.571820
15 Afghan_Pashtun + Evens + Ket + Tujia @ 3.611106
16 Afghan_Tadjik + Hezhen + Ket + Mongolian @ 3.612386
17 Afghan_Pashtun + Evenki + Selkup + She @ 3.618282
18 Hazara + Kirgiz + Selkup + Xibo @ 3.619209
19 Hazara + Hezhen + Kirgiz + Selkup @ 3.628547
20 Afghan_Tadjik + Dolgan + Hakas + Tu @ 3.636088

[Bakha]

My turkic brother

[Sora]

My turkic brother

Also another Turkic bro: https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?225638-Ulash-s-(1-2-Turkish-1-4-Kyrgyz-1-4-Kazakh)-GEDmatch-Results :o

[Kyp]

Muh R1a brother


Largest segment = 7.6 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 337.3 cM (9.420 Pct)

114 shared segments found for this comparison.

118869 SNPs used for this comparison.

47.757 Pct SNPs are full identical

Comparison took 0.230 seconds.
CPU time used: 0.031 cpu seconds.

[Rgvgjhvv]

Very close to my results

[Rgvgjhvv]

Largest segment = 7.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 727.4 cM (20.298 Pct)

464 shared segments found for this comparison.

283750 SNPs used for this comparison.

50.953 Pct SNPs are full identical

T00R4N STRONK I LOVE U

[Mingle]

If you models Kyrghyzes and Kazakhs (especially Kazakhs) in G25 using Medieval Turks/Gokturks and Mongols as reference samples, they get way more Mongol than they get Gokturks. Something like 80% Mongol and 20% Gokturk.

[Kaspias]

Largest segment = 7.0 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 727.4 cM (20.298 Pct)

464 shared segments found for this comparison.

283750 SNPs used for this comparison.

50.953 Pct SNPs are full identical

T00R4N STRONK I LOVE U

No shared DNA segments found


i'm jealous now

[tipirneni]

Using 200SNP/ 5cM setting

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 5.9 cM (0.164 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.6

[Bakha]

Not a brother anymore. Damn

https://i.ibb.co/ZRQ4kFV/86-D2525-B-7772-4-F2-F-8-D52-FEE994-BBFF77.jpg (https://ibb.co/bj4w8CP)
фотохостинг без регистрации (https://ru.imgbb.com/)

[Impaler]

No shared DNA segments found


i'm jealous now

They have lower SNP and cM. Not default.

[Rgvgjhvv]

No shared DNA segments found


i'm jealous now

Wow. What a world. Pray to the T00r4n Godz and to the Hawk for strength. They will provide you.

https://iadsb.tmgrup.com.tr/927ff2/645/344/0/91/800/518?u=https://idsb.tmgrup.com.tr/2017/08/18/kyrgyzstan-where-turkic-nomadic-culture-still-lives-1503082647532.jpg

[Mingle]

Largest segment = 3.5 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 22.6 cM (0.630 Pct)

11 shared segments found for this comparison.

290832 SNPs used for this comparison.

51.798 Pct SNPs are full identical

(Mine are set to 1 cM so maybe not accurate)

[Impaler]

I set SNP to 200 and cM to 5.

http://i.imgur.com/uaq3E2s.png (https://imgur.com/uaq3E2s)

[tipirneni]

Using 200SNP/ 5cM setting

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 5.9 cM (0.164 Pct)
Estimated number of generations to MRCA = 7.6
on .5/50 SNP
Largest segment = 5.9 cM

Total Half-Match segments (HIR) = 1282.1 cM (35.776 Pct)

1107 shared segments found for this comparison.

294170 SNPs used for this comparison.

52.094 Pct SNPs are full identical

[Rgvgjhvv]

I set SNP to 200 and cM to 5.

http://i.imgur.com/uaq3E2s.png (https://imgur.com/uaq3E2s)

South Asian connection

[Bakha]

I set SNP to 200 and cM to 5.

http://i.imgur.com/uaq3E2s.png (https://imgur.com/uaq3E2s)

why 200 and 5? I set the same no shared segments

[Impaler]

why 200 and 5? I set the same no shared segments

Less than 5 cM doesn't count. I've read that segments under 5 cM are false.

[Impaler]

If I set to minimum 50 SNPs and 1 cM I have more, but I don't think this is true.

http://i.imgur.com/H8GPZ3W.png (https://imgur.com/H8GPZ3W)

[itilvolga]

Hahaha half Turkic members get no shared DNA segments but a Greek gets, there’s some shit going on xD

[Rgvgjhvv]

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/chUMEMcB4Xk/hqdefault.jpg

[karakartal]

No shared DNA segments found

118722 SNPs used for this comparison.

[Yaglakar]

If you models Kyrghyzes and Kazakhs (especially Kazakhs) in G25 using Medieval Turks/Gokturks and Mongols as reference samples, they get way more Mongol than they get Gokturks. Something like 80% Mongol and 20% Gokturk.

The Türk samples, 3 individuals, 30%, 40%, 50% mongoloidness - a quite significant discrepancy if you ask me, only possible if some kind of intermixing process was going on in the area. It is interesting that Qirghiz are more mongoloid than Qazaqs even though live to the south. I think there was almost a complete population replacement in what is now Kyrgyzstan, because according to medieval sources Kashgari in particular who says that Balasaghun (northern Kyrgyzstan) was bilingual as well as listing numerous tribes inhabiting the area who "did not speak Turkic well or were bilingual". We also know that Kyrgyzstan had a large Sogdian population. Genghis Khan's Mongols ransacked the area, semi-nomadic Kyrgyzstan became virtually empty, to be later filled by the arriving waves of other Mongols (Moghuls) and the Qirqhiz who came with them.

[Leto]

It is interesting that Qirghiz are more mongoloid than Qazaqs even though live to the south.
Do you think Kazakhs are a homogenous ethnic group? I mean the GEDmatch averages can be regarded as representative from Astrakhan all the way to Almaty and Ust-Kamenogorsk or there are some noteable geographic differences? I'm also interested in Northern Kazakhstan. Russians used to be an absolute majority (60-70%) in North KZ until very recently, so maybe most Kazakhs out there are not even native to the region?

Kazakh K13 average

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 36.11
2 East_Asian 22.47
3 West_Asian 12.28
4 Baltic 11.87
5 North_Atlantic 7.42
6 South_Asian 3.34
7 Amerindian 2.22
8 West_Med 1.47
9 East_Med 0.99
10 Red_Sea 0.86
11 Oceanian 0.91

Kyrgyz K13 average

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 37.76
2 East_Asian 24.46
3 West_Asian 12.69
4 Baltic 7.94
5 North_Atlantic 5.81
6 South_Asian 4.21
7 Amerindian 2.56
8 East_Med 2.05
9 West_Med 1.15
10 Oceanian 0.91
11 Red_Sea 0.34

[Mingle]

The Türk samples, 3 individuals, 30%, 40%, 50% mongoloidness - a quite significant discrepancy if you ask me, only possible if some kind of intermixing process was going on in the area. It is interesting that Qirghiz are more mongoloid than Qazaqs even though live to the south. I think there was almost a complete population replacement in what is now Kyrgyzstan, because according to medieval sources Kashgari in particular who says that Balasaghun (northern Kyrgyzstan) was bilingual as well as listing numerous tribes inhabiting the area who "did not speak Turkic well or were bilingual". We also know that Kyrgyzstan had a large Sogdian population. Genghis Khan's Mongols ransacked the area, semi-nomadic Kyrgyzstan became virtually empty, to be later filled by the arriving waves of other Mongols (Moghuls) and the Qirqhiz who came with them.Interesting that the Kyrgyz are not only more Mongoloid than the Kazakhs but they have a very high rate (63%+) of R1a among them.

[Chelubey]

because according to medieval sources Kashgari in particular who says that Balasaghun (northern Kyrgyzstan) was bilingual as well as listing numerous tribes inhabiting the area who "did not speak Turkic well or were bilingual".

I think he was talking about bilingual Mongols.

[Chelubey]

If you models Kyrghyzes and Kazakhs (especially Kazakhs) in G25 using Medieval Turks/Gokturks and Mongols as reference samples, they get way more Mongol than they get Gokturks. Something like 80% Mongol and 20% Gokturk.


I think this is the genetic heritage of Mogulistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moghulistan


That area today includes parts of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, and northwest Xinjiang, China.

[Yaglakar]

Do you think Kazakhs are a homogenous ethnic group? I mean the GEDmatch averages can be regarded as representative from Astrakhan all the way to Almaty and Ust-Kamenogorsk or there are some noteable geographic differences? I'm also interested in Northern Kazakhstan. Russians used to be an absolute majority (60-70%) in North KZ until very recently, so maybe most Kazakhs out there are not even native to the region?

Kazakh K13 average

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 36.11
2 East_Asian 22.47
3 West_Asian 12.28
4 Baltic 11.87
5 North_Atlantic 7.42
6 South_Asian 3.34
7 Amerindian 2.22
8 West_Med 1.47
9 East_Med 0.99
10 Red_Sea 0.86
11 Oceanian 0.91

Kyrgyz K13 average

# Population Percent
1 Siberian 37.76
2 East_Asian 24.46
3 West_Asian 12.69
4 Baltic 7.94
5 North_Atlantic 5.81
6 South_Asian 4.21
7 Amerindian 2.56
8 East_Med 2.05
9 West_Med 1.15
10 Oceanian 0.91
11 Red_Sea 0.34

There is a Kazakh geneticist on another forum who is preparing a paper, autosomal differences between Kazakh tribes and regions. He says that Kazakhs overall are a more or less homogeneous population.

[Chelubey]

Kashgari :


the tribes Kai, Yabaku, Tatars, Basmyl speak their own languages (according to VV Bartold, a Mongolian group), however, they speak good Turkic as well (Soviet Turkology, 1972, 1, p. 13– 14).

https://history.wikireading.ru/277501

[Yaglakar]

Interesting that the Kyrgyz are not only more Mongoloid than the Kazakhs but they have a very high rate (63%+) of R1a among them.

and these lines are linked to pre-Turkic lines found in Minusinsk hallow, descending from Andronovo culture. Based on the info i gathered Minusinsk hallow experienced several waves of racial population displacement, Caucasoid and Mongoloid going back and forth. I think the later Yenisei Qirghiz formed in this very melting pot.

[Yaglakar]

I think he was talking about bilingual Mongols.

No Mongolic speaking peoples in Kyrgyzstan during that time period.


I think this is the genetic heritage of Mogulistan.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moghulistan

Right, so the Mongols brought r1a?

[Leto]

Kyrgyz FTDNA project results (not updated, as of 2018)

R1a - 55.3%,
С3 - 25.5%,
O - 8.5%,
N1 - 4.2%,
R1b - 4.2%,
J2 - 2.1%.

[Bakha]

Kyrgyz FTDNA project results (not updated, as of 2018)

R1a - 55.3%,
С3 - 25.5%,
O - 8.5%,
N1 - 4.2%,
R1b - 4.2%,
J2 - 2.1%.

Post Uzbeki Ftdna results if you have it, all haplos, including E1b1b

[Chelubey]

No Mongolic speaking peoples in Kyrgyzstan during that time period.

We generally have little information about the Mongol-speaking tribes before Genghis Khan.




Right, so the Mongols brought r1a?

I definitely can’t say what haplogroups the Mongols had.
But:
1) We have a late medieval Mongolian state including the territory of Kazakhstan, Kyrgyzstan, Uyguristan.
2) This state has "disappeared".
3) In the place of this state, the Turkic-speaking population can be modeled as a mixture of medieval Turks and Mongols.

I think this is a simpler explanation of the genetic specificity of the population of this region than the confusing history of Minusinsk .

[Leto]

Post Uzbeki Ftdna results if you have it, all haplos, including E1b1b
I don't. I would like to see that myself.

[Mingle]

No Mongolic speaking peoples in Kyrgyzstan during that time period.



Right, so the Mongols brought r1a?They weren't Mongolic-speaking, they were Turkic-speakers of Mongols origin. I guess it's safe to say that most Kyrgyzes and Kazakhs are descended from these Turkified Mongols and a subsection of them have Minusinsk ancestry and the Kyrgyz get their R1a from them and they in return get their R1a from a native source (Minusinsk) as you suggested.

[Yaglakar]

They weren't Mongolic-speaking, they were Turkic-speakers of Mongols origin. I guess it's safe to say that most Kyrgyzes and Kazakhs are descended from these Turkified Mongols and a subsection of them have Minusinsk ancestry and the Kyrgyz get their R1a from them and they in return get their R1a from a native source (Minusinsk) as you suggested.

This fellow Chelubey is suggesting something else, according to him dominantly Caucasoid Turkic peoples were living in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan to be later intermixed with the Mongolic peoples (not only the Mongols themselves but Mongolic speaking peoples before them). He does not realize that there were no Mongolic peoples in Semirechiye/Zhetysu in early to mid 11th century. Only when the Qocho Uighurs allowed a free pass through Dzungaria, do they they (Qara-Khitai) start settling in vast swathes of Central Asian steppe land and rather successfully. They also asked the Uighurs to resettle Mongolia, which the Uighurs refused. The important thing here is that this very fact points to Mongolia being virtually empty during that time period, the Qara Qitai opted for a better option Desht-i-Kipchak rather than Mongolia. According to prominent historian Peter Golden this was because Mongolia experienced a series of droughts during the 10th and 11th centuries and got vacated almost entirely. But during Kashgari's time there were no Mongolic peoples in central Asia proper, the things he talks about "speak pure turkic, don't speak Turkic well, or bilingual" (when it concerns Central Asia proper) points to an undergoing Turkification process which conflicts with Chelubey's "Caucasoid Turks" hypothesis. and of course he brings up the samples, but those samples are of an already mixed population.

[Leto]

The OPs racial breakdown

Population
S-Indian 4.14 Pct
Baloch 8.94 Pct
Caucasian 6.44 Pct
NE-Euro 9.46 Pct
SE-Asian 0.59 Pct
Siberian 28.98 Pct
NE-Asian 34.48 Pct
Papuan 0.47 Pct
American 1.48 Pct
Beringian 3.47 Pct
Mediterranean 1.12 Pct
SW-Asian -
San 0.13 Pct
E-African 0.11 Pct
Pygmy -
W-African 0.16 Pct

68.4%
26%
4.1%

Again, not sure if the Amerindian should be included into the Mongoloid, it's only partially mong at best. Without it the total would be ca. 67%. Still pretty high.

[Chelubey]

This fellow Chelubey is suggesting something else, according to him dominantly Caucasoid Turkic peoples were living in Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan to be later intermixed with the Mongolic peoples (not only the Mongols themselves but Mongolic speaking peoples before them). He does not realize that there were no Mongolic peoples in Semirechiye/Zhetysu in early to mid 11th century.

I did not understand the meaning of your statements.
it would be nice that you answered that I said, and not that I "suggest"
I have several questions:
1) Do you think that genetic "medieval Turks" (genetically more Caucasoid) are not Turkic speakers?
2) Do you think that there was Mongolian genetic influence on kazakh,kyrgyz,uyghurs in the Middle Ages? If it was, what haplogroups moghuls had?.
3) If we are talking about the same quote from Mahmud Kashgari("Kai, Yabaku, Tatars, Basmyl "), on what basis do you consider them Sogdian speakers?And how are they related to Kyrgyz?

[Chelubey]

...

[Leto]

I'm not an expert by any means but it looks pretty obvious to me that both Kazakhs and Kyrgyz have substantial non/pre-Turkic ancestry.

on what basis do you consider them Sogdian speakers?And how are they related to Kyrgyz?
Map of Sogdia after Alexander the Great. Northwestern Tajikistan literally has a province called Sughd which means Sogdia in Persian. Would love to see Northwestern Tajikistani DNA results
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Sogdiana-300BCE.png

[Chelubey]

I'm not an expert by any means but it looks pretty obvious to me that both Kazakhs and Kyrgyz have substantial non/pre-Turkic ancestry.

Map of Sogdia after Alexander the Great. Northwestern Tajikistan literally has a province called Sughd which means Sogdia in Persian. Would love to see Northwestern Tajikistani DNA results
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/b9/Sogdiana-300BCE.png

As I know, the Kyrgyz language is alone Kipchak language which has long vowels (probably this is the influence of Siberian-Turkic languages.). And as I know, Kyrgyz subclades of R1a are close to the Hunnic subclades from this region. But it is believed that Kyrgyz moved to this region from Siberia much later. Perhaps this is a hybrid population consisting of local ancient Kipchaks and late turkic immigrants from Siberia. But this is just my guess

[Yaglakar]

I did not understand the meaning of your statements.
it would be nice that you answered that I said, and not that I "suggest"
I have several questions:
1) Do you think that genetic "medieval Turks" (genetically more Caucasoid) are not Turkic speakers?
2) Do you think that there was Mongolian genetic influence on kazakh,kyrgyz,uyghurs in the Middle Ages? If it was, what haplogroups moghuls had?.
3) If we are talking about the same quote from Mahmud Kashgari("Kai, Yabaku, Tatars, Basmyl "), on what basis do you consider them Sogdian speakers?And how are they related to Kyrgyz?

1. They are however they did not come to empty lands
2. There was, but not the way you perceive it to be aka Caucasoid "Turks" intermixing with Mongolic peoples.
3. Wrong citation, different geography, here's a proper citation:

https://i.imgur.com/4KC3HNF.png
https://i.imgur.com/kZ08Cdt.png

Sughdak, Kanjak, Arghu (southern Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan). Balasaghun, Sayram bilingual. They are not related because ethnically mixed population in the area has been cleansed replaced with newcomers, otherwise they would have resembled Uzbeks.


As I know, the Kyrgyz language is alone Kipchak language which has long vowels (probably this is the influence of Siberian-Turkic languages.). And as I know, Kyrgyz subclades of R1a are close to the Hunnic subclades from this region. But it is believed that Kyrgyz moved to this region from Siberia much later. Perhaps this is a hybrid population consisting of local ancient Kipchaks and late turkic immigrants from Siberia. But this is just my guess

Qipchaq is a modern linguistic designation. Language of actual historical Qipchaqs is unknown. Anyhow, the Turkic languages spoken in Kyrgyzstan in Middle Ages were of Old Turkic variety (actual Türk language), not Qipchaq or Oghuz (western).

[Chelubey]

3. Wrong citation, different geography, here's a proper citation:

https://i.imgur.com/4KC3HNF.png
https://i.imgur.com/kZ08Cdt.png

Sughdak, Kanjak, Arghu (southern Kazakhstan and Kyrgyzstan). Balasaghun, Sayram bilingual. They are not related because ethnically mixed population in the area has been cleansed replaced with newcomers, otherwise they would have resembled Uzbeks.



Qipchaq is a modern linguistic designation. Language of actual historical Qipchaqs is unknown. Anyhow, the Turkic languages spoken in Kyrgyzstan in Middle Ages were of Old Turkic variety (actual Türk language), not Qipchaq or Oghuz (western).

Ok.
The first quote narrates that the languages of Turkic-speaking tribes Sughdak, Kanjak, Argh change due to the Persian and Sogdian influence.
The second quote narrates that the population of Balasagun ( perhaps a city in medieval Kyrgyzstan) speaks both Sogdian and Turkic. Moreover, it is not clear who speaks Sogdian: iranian or turkic people.(Sogdian language was a lingua franca in this region)
It's all.

So, you speculate on usual situation of bilingualism in the border region when the Turkic tribes speak Iranian language and Iranians speak turkic, giving this phenomenon global significance for turkic ethnogenesis.
But you consider the assimilation of large Mughal state among turkic peoples an insignificant fact.
But there is one problem in your theory. It's genetics, which says that Huns (early Turks) were genetically close to medieval turks.


2. There was, but not the way you perceive it to be aka Caucasoid "Turks" intermixing with Mongolic peoples.


I don’t perceive, the data say that Kazakhs and Kyrgyz can be modeled as a mixture of medieval Turks and Mongols

[Seya]

Largest segment = 6.2 cM

Total segments = 23.4 cM (12.433 Pct)