Average relationship between Y-dna and autosomal admixture

[J. Ketch]

In Europe.

Any ideas what this might be? What would be the likely minimum autosomal impact to Y-dna impact? Half? How much has this differed between invading groups historically, Germanics, Celts, Slavs etc?

I would think the unbalanced impact of the Northern Bell Beakers in Iberia is a bit of an anomaly in Europe.

[Dick]

Maybe it should be divided between WHG, Neolithic and Steppe admixture to make more sense instead.

[Lucas]

It makes sense only in case of first and few next generations after initial mix. After about 8 generations you inherit autosomally less than 1% from your older ancestors.

[J. Ketch]

It makes sense only in case of first and few next generations after initial mix. After about 8 generations you inherit autosomally less than 1% from your older ancestors.
Maybe I didn't make myself clear. I was referring to the Y-dna impact of a conquering people (or any migration) compared to their autosomal impact. So if a population has 50% of it's y-dna representing a certain historical invading group, then is it likely they have at least ~25% autosomal admixture from that group?

[Leto]

Kyrgyz people are like 50-60% R1a, more than the Russian average, yet they are 65-70% Mongoloid.

[Jana]

It depends, in some group male impact trough YDNA is much greater than overall autosomal impact, like in Latinos.

[Annihilus]

Kyrgyz people are like 50-60% R1a, more than the Russian average, yet they are 65-70% Mongoloid.

Is there consensus whether R1a (or R) started as Causcasoid or Mongoloid?

[Leto]

Is there consensus whether R1a (or R) started as Causcasoid or Mongoloid?
In that particular case it's surely from a non-Turkic Europoid population.

[SharpFork]

In that particular case it's surely from a non-Turkic Europoid population.
There had to be a founder effect behind such high level of R1a I imagine.

[Annihilus]

In that particular case it's surely from a non-Turkic Europoid population.

What makes you so sure they where caucasoid? I am not disputing you or anything btw. Tell us more

[Leto]

What makes you so sure they where caucasoid? I am not disputing you or anything btw. Tell us more
The Andronovo were definitely Europoid, it's not debatable.

The supposedly oldest R1a samples are from Ukraine, Russia and Estonia, I believe.

[Annihilus]

The Andronovo were definitely Europoid, it's not debatable.

The supposedly oldest R1a samples are from Ukraine, Russia and Estonia, I believe.

You know the age? There is 24k years old R1a in Siberia but I don't know if the mongoloid race was already formed back then.

[Leto]

You know the age? There is 24k years old R1a in Siberia but I don't know if the mongoloid race was already formed back then.
All I said is that in Kyrgyz people it's from some Iranic/Aryan population. Why talk about some alleged pre-historic stuff when the Kyrgyz ethnicity formed in the Middle Ages?

[Annihilus]

All I said is that in Kyrgyz people it's from some Iranic/Aryan population. Why talk about some alleged pre-historic stuff when the Kyrgyz ethnicity formed in the Middle Ages?

Where is the proof for that? Why can't the R1a in Kyrgyz have been predominantly mongoloid to begin with?

[J. Ketch]

It depends, in some group male impact trough YDNA is much greater than overall autosomal impact, like in Latinos.
I assume Y-dna impact is nearly always greater than autosomal impact, but what range is the question. The only time they'd be near to equal is when a group moves to a sparsely populated area or genocides/replaces the natives.

[Leto]

Where is the proof for that? Why can't the R1a in Kyrgyz have been predominantly mongoloid to begin with?
Okay, I'm done with you, son. I'm not arguing with Turanists and others who freak out at the mere word 'European' (I didn't even say 'white', you guys hate it even more). Ask KipchakHakan or whatever the guy is called, he will tell about R1a Turks.

[Annihilus]

Okay, I'm done with you, son. I'm not arguing with Turanists and others who freak out at the mere word 'European' (I didn't even say 'white', you guys hate it even more). Ask KipchakHakan or whatever the guy is called, he will tell about R1a Turks.

Ye whatever, all I asked was you enlighten your pov a bit. I find it odd they supposedly got mongoloidified and tukicified and all the R1a males survived that process. Also they are Z93 which is practically absent in Europe.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Underhill/publication/261103437/figure/fig2/AS:272568464703488@1441996794038/Spatial-frequency-distributions-of-Z93-affiliated-haplogroups-Maps-were-generated-as.png

[Leto]

Ye whatever, all I asked was you enlighten your pov a bit. I find it odd they supposedly got mongoloidified and tukicified and all the R1a males survived that process. Also they are Z93 which is practically absent in Europe.

https://www.researchgate.net/profile/Peter_Underhill/publication/261103437/figure/fig2/AS:272568464703488@1441996794038/Spatial-frequency-distributions-of-Z93-affiliated-haplogroups-Maps-were-generated-as.png
Well, I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I personally believe it's all from Indo-European migrations and those folks were Europoid, more like me than like Indians or Mongols.
By the way, the medieval Kyrgyz specifically were described by the Chinese as white (ruddy skin, light eyes, hair). It is what it is, I'm not trying to appropriate other cultures or anything but they probably were closer to Europeans than to the people that currently live there.

[Annihilus]

Well, I wasn't trying to attack anyone. I personally believe it's all from Indo-European migrations and those folks were Europoid, more like me than like Indians or Mongols.
By the way, the medieval Kyrgyz specifically were described by the Chinese as white (ruddy skin, light eyes, hair). It is what it is, I'm not trying to appropriate other cultures or anything but they probably were closer to Europeans than to the people that currently live there.

I personally hold the view that the first turkics were a 50/50 mix between caucasoid and mongoloid.

From wiki "According to Underhill (2014), the downstream R1a-M417 subclade diversified into Z282 and Z93 circa 5,800 years ago" I don't think Z93 ever left that place after it formed (obviously some did, I am Z93 but that number is insignificant).