New Italian Regions Added to the Global 25

[Grace O'Malley]

I was doing a Fit Check on the Irish and noticed a lot of new Italian regions added. What I found interesting was Italian_Aosta Valley and how northern compared to other Italian regions. Italian_Northeast is also more northern shifted. Aosta Valley comes out more northern than any Spanish region. I'll add the closes pops to Aosta Valley in the next post. Italy is very diverse as look at where Calabria is positioned.

1 Irish:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 0.683
2 Irish:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 0.929
3 Irish:Average English_Averaged Averaged 1.122
4 Irish:Average English_Cornwall HG00243 1.318
5 Irish:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 1.334
6 Irish:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 1.39
7 Irish:Average England_Roman_Averaged Averaged 1.398
9 Irish:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 1.409
12 Irish:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 1.589
16 Irish:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 1.659
27 Irish:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 1.818
161 Irish:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 2.701
176 Irish:Average German_Averaged Averaged 2.762
244 Irish:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 3.076
516 Irish:Average French_East_Averaged Averaged 4.134
526 Irish:Average German_East_Averaged Averaged 4.175
543 Irish:Average Swiss_German_Averaged Averaged 4.219
547 Irish:Average French_Averaged Averaged 4.24
555 Irish:Average Austrian_Averaged Averaged 4.262
680 Irish:Average Czech_Averaged Averaged 4.777
741 Irish:Average Hungarian_Averaged Averaged 5.113
862 Irish:Average Swiss_French_Averaged Averaged 5.75
865 Irish:Average Slovenian_Averaged Averaged 5.785
874 Irish:Average Croatian_Averaged Averaged 5.816
883 Irish:Average Italian_Aosta_Valley_Averaged Averaged 5.866
1076 Irish:Average Spanish_Penedes_Averaged Averaged 6.739
1084 Irish:Average Bosnian_Averaged Averaged 6.8
1087 Irish:Average Spanish_Barcelones_Averaged Averaged 6.827
1095 Irish:Average Italian_Northeast_Averaged Averaged 6.869
1118 Irish:Average Spanish_Girona_Averaged Averaged 6.958
1131 Irish:Average Spanish_Catalunya_Central_Averaged Averaged 7
1138 Irish:Average Montenegrin_Averaged Averaged 7.042
1147 Irish:Average French_South_Averaged Averaged 7.08
1148 Irish:Average Spanish_Lleida_Averaged Averaged 7.087
1156 Irish:Average Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona_Averaged Averaged 7.114
1161 Irish:Average Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_Averaged Averaged 7.122
1173 Irish:Average Spanish_Pais_Vasco_Averaged Averaged 7.184
1177 Irish:Average Spanish_Peri-Barcelona_Averaged Averaged 7.197
1179 Irish:Average Spanish_Mallorca_Averaged Averaged 7.217
1182 Irish:Average Spanish_Cataluna_Averaged Averaged 7.233
1204 Irish:Average Spanish_Cantabria_Averaged Averaged 7.305
1219 Irish:Average Basque_French_Averaged Averaged 7.371
1231 Irish:Average Ukrainian_Averaged Averaged 7.421
1233 Irish:Average Spanish_Soria_Averaged Averaged 7.426
1248 Irish:Average Serbian_Averaged Averaged 7.481
1250 Irish:Average Romanian_Averaged Averaged 7.486
1256 Irish:Average Spanish_Pirineu_Averaged Averaged 7.5
1258 Irish:Average Spanish_Castello_Averaged Averaged 7.502
1281 Irish:Average Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre_Averaged Averaged 7.556
1287 Irish:Average Cossack_Ukrainian_Averaged Averaged 7.585
1289 Irish:Average Spanish_Aragon_Averaged Averaged 7.588
1299 Irish:Average Spanish_Valencia_Averaged Averaged 7.607
1316 Irish:Average Spanish_Baleares_Averaged Averaged 7.648
1320 Irish:Average Spanish_Alacant_Averaged Averaged 7.679
1333 Irish:Average Spanish_Eivissa_Averaged Averaged 7.73
1348 Irish:Average Spanish_Navarra_Averaged Averaged 7.78
1349 Irish:Average Basque_Spanish_Averaged Averaged 7.787
1350 Irish:Average Spanish_Valencia HG01607 7.792
1366 Irish:Average Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon_Averaged Averaged 7.841
1385 Irish:Average Russian_Orel_Averaged Averaged 7.879
1404 Irish:Average Spanish_Asturias_Averaged Averaged 7.929
1409 Irish:Average Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha_Averaged Averaged 7.941
1410 Irish:Average Russian_Voronez_Averaged Averaged 7.942
1420 Irish:Average Finnish_Averaged Averaged 7.966
1438 Irish:Average Italian_Veneto_Averaged Averaged 8.018
1454 Irish:Average Russian_Kursk_Averaged Averaged 8.073
1470 Irish:Average Russian_Smolensk_Averaged Averaged 8.13
1474 Irish:Average Spanish_Galicia_Averaged Averaged 8.138
1498 Irish:Average Spanish_Menorca_Averaged Averaged 8.218
1501 Irish:Average Portuguese_Averaged Averaged 8.223
1506 Irish:Average Spanish_Andalucia_Averaged Averaged 8.25
1526 Irish:Average Spanish_Extremadura_Averaged Averaged 8.354
1527 Irish:Average Spanish_Castello BOS027 8.358
1533 Irish:Average Belarusian_Averaged Averaged 8.363
1535 Irish:Average Bulgarian_Averaged Averaged 8.366
1536 Irish:Average Macedonian_Averaged Averaged 8.374
1547 Irish:Average Spanish_Murcia_Averaged Averaged 8.408
1564 Irish:Average Russian_Tver_Averaged Averaged 8.452
1583 Irish:Average Cossack_Kuban_Averaged Averaged 8.51
1601 Irish:Average Italian_Bergamo_Averaged Averaged 8.6
1607 Irish:Average Ingrian_Averaged Averaged 8.609
1610 Irish:Average Moldavian_Averaged Averaged 8.639
1663 Irish:Average Estonian_Averaged Averaged 8.857
1673 Irish:Average Italian_Liguria_Averaged Averaged 8.891
1678 Irish:Average Swiss_Italian_Averaged Averaged 8.901
1684 Irish:Average Italian_Lombardy_Averaged Averaged 8.919
1717 Irish:Average Russian_Kostroma_Averaged Averaged 9.076
1739 Irish:Average Spanish_La_Rioja_Averaged Averaged 9.207
1767 Irish:Average Mordovian_Averaged Averaged 9.422
1791 Irish:Average Lithuanian_Averaged Averaged 9.571
1856 Irish:Average Finnish_East_Averaged Averaged 9.95
1876 Irish:Average Karelian_Averaged Averaged 10.055
1893 Irish:Average Italian_Tuscany_Averaged Averaged 10.167
1933 Irish:Average Latvian_Averaged Averaged 10.386
1943 Irish:Average Albanian_Averaged Averaged 10.455
1964 Irish:Average Spanish_Canarias_Averaged Averaged 10.566
1970 Irish:Average Vepsian_Averaged Averaged 10.596
1986 Irish:Average Greek_Averaged Averaged 10.739
2017 Irish:Average Italian_Marche_Averaged Averaged 11.014
2026 Irish:Average Italian_Umbria_Averaged Averaged 11.09
2064 Irish:Average Russian_Pinega_Averaged Averaged 11.452
2098 Irish:Average Italian_Lazio_Averaged Averaged 11.797
2127 Irish:Average Tatar_Mishar_Averaged Averaged 12.042
2136 Irish:Average Italian_Molise_Averaged Averaged 12.103
2145 Irish:Average Italian_Abruzzo_Averaged Averaged 12.217
2160 Irish:Average Sicilian_West_Averaged Averaged 12.479
2208 Irish:Average Sarmatian_RUS_Urals_Averaged Averaged 12.833
2211 Irish:Average Italian_South_Averaged Averaged 12.843
2231 Irish:Average Italian_Apulia_Averaged Averaged 13.036
2237 Irish:Average Italian_Basilica_Averaged Averaged 13.093
2254 Irish:Average Sicilian_East_Averaged Averaged 13.305
2283 Irish:Average Italian_Campania_Averaged Averaged 13.524
2285 Irish:Average Komi_Averaged Averaged 13.541
2302 Irish:Average Maltese_Averaged Averaged 13.655
2347 Irish:Average Ashkenazi_Jew_Averaged Averaged 13.972
2364 Irish:Average Turkish_Istanbul_Averaged Averaged 14.062
2394 Irish:Average Italian_Calabria_Averaged Averaged 14.365
2404 Irish:Average Kaitag_Averaged Averaged 14.411
2418 Irish:Average Greek_Crete_Averaged Averaged 14.492
2455 Irish:Average Tatar_Kazan_Averaged Averaged 14.728
2472 Irish:Average Tabasaran_Averaged Averaged 14.817

[Grace O'Malley]

3 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_Averaged Averaged 1.709
4 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Northeast_Averaged Averaged 1.782
5 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Swiss_French_Averaged Averaged 1.947
9 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Swiss_German_Averaged Averaged 2.215
10 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average French_Averaged Averaged 2.221
13 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Veneto_Averaged Averaged 2.38
28 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Mallorca_Averaged Averaged 2.539
30 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average French_East_Averaged Averaged 2.552
34 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Penedes_Averaged Averaged 2.666
49 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Girona_Averaged Averaged 2.822
70 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Peri-Barcelona_Averaged Averaged 2.975
72 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Catalunya_Central_Averaged Averaged 2.991
81 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Baleares_Averaged Averaged 3.047
84 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Belgian_Averaged Averaged 3.058
90 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Barcelones_Averaged Averaged 3.1
96 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Eivissa_Averaged Averaged 3.132
100 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Bergamo_Averaged Averaged 3.171
102 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Lleida_Averaged Averaged 3.189
113 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre_Averaged Averaged 3.242
129 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Romanian_Averaged Averaged 3.346
151 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Menorca_Averaged Averaged 3.428
177 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Swiss_Italian_Averaged Averaged 3.53
185 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Lombardy_Averaged Averaged 3.542
196 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Pirineu_Averaged Averaged 3.596
199 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Liguria_Averaged Averaged 3.597
204 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Montenegrin_Averaged Averaged 3.611
207 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Alacant_Averaged Averaged 3.622
209 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Valencia_Averaged Averaged 3.63
212 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Cataluna_Averaged Averaged 3.638
229 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Castello_Averaged Averaged 3.691
254 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha_Averaged Averaged 3.777
259 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Andalucia_Averaged Averaged 3.805
265 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Serbian_Averaged Averaged 3.821
270 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Aragon_Averaged Averaged 3.846
272 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Cantabria_Averaged Averaged 3.853
276 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Bulgarian_Averaged Averaged 3.863
282 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Austrian_Averaged Averaged 3.869
325 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Moldavian_Averaged Averaged 4.003
333 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Macedonian_Averaged Averaged 4.028
349 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon_Averaged Averaged 4.085
353 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Murcia_Averaged Averaged 4.103
362 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Extremadura_Averaged Averaged 4.131
377 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Portuguese_Averaged Averaged 4.191
415 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average French_South_Averaged Averaged 4.324
416 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average German_Averaged Averaged 4.324
446 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Galicia_Averaged Averaged 4.407
452 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Navarra_Averaged Averaged 4.42
521 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Bosnian_Averaged Averaged 4.666
526 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Soria_Averaged Averaged 4.671
546 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Tuscany_Averaged Averaged 4.719
579 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Croatian_Averaged Averaged 4.811
628 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Hungarian_Averaged Averaged 4.962
653 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Asturias_Averaged Averaged 5.016
662 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Slovenian_Averaged Averaged 5.054
670 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Albanian_Averaged Averaged 5.073
676 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Pais_Vasco_Averaged Averaged 5.092
687 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average English_Cornwall_Averaged Averaged 5.154
696 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average French_Brittany_Averaged Averaged 5.179
712 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average English_Averaged Averaged 5.25
726 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Greek_Averaged Averaged 5.314
749 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Basque_French_Averaged Averaged 5.409
779 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Marche_Averaged Averaged 5.543
782 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Dutch_Averaged Averaged 5.552
804 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Umbria_Averaged Averaged 5.615
808 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Scottish_Averaged Averaged 5.628
842 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Orcadian_Averaged Averaged 5.71
869 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average German_East_Averaged Averaged 5.781
875 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Welsh_Averaged Averaged 5.793
906 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Irish_Averaged Averaged 5.866
915 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Basque_Spanish_Averaged Averaged 5.893
960 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Shetlandic_Averaged Averaged 6.029
1009 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Czech_Averaged Averaged 6.168
1060 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Lazio_Averaged Averaged 6.32
1174 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Norwegian_Averaged Averaged 6.675
1201 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Molise_Averaged Averaged 6.764
1215 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Abruzzo_Averaged Averaged 6.818
1230 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Icelandic_Averaged Averaged 6.853
1243 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Spanish_Canarias_Averaged Averaged 6.903
1270 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Swedish_Averaged Averaged 7.004
1331 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Slovakian_Averaged Averaged 7.205
1341 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Sicilian_West_Averaged Averaged 7.244
1438 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Apulia_Averaged Averaged 7.609
1462 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Basilica_Averaged Averaged 7.735
1524 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Sicilian_East_Averaged Averaged 8.031
1553 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Campania_Averaged Averaged 8.168
1582 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Polish_Averaged Averaged 8.301
1635 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Maltese_Averaged Averaged 8.508
1699 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Ukrainian_Averaged Averaged 8.795
1737 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Ashkenazi_Jew_Averaged Averaged 9.012
1747 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Calabria_Averaged Averaged 9.068
1763 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Cossack_Ukrainian_Averaged Averaged 9.174
1803 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Russian_Orel_Averaged Averaged 9.53
1861 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Russian_Kursk_Averaged Averaged 9.854
1888 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Russian_Smolensk_Averaged Averaged 9.971
1936 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Belarusian_Averaged Averaged 10.292
1943 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Italian_Jew_Averaged Averaged 10.351
1953 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Istanbul_Averaged Averaged 10.415
1963 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Cossack_Kuban_Averaged Averaged 10.475
1988 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Russian_Tver_Averaged Averaged 10.658
2014 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Sephardic_Jew_Averaged Averaged 10.806
2086 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Mordovian_Averaged Averaged 11.335
2105 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Russian_Kostroma_Averaged Averaged 11.436
2110 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Romaniote_Jew_Averaged Averaged 11.465
2111 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Moroccan_Jew_Averaged Averaged 11.468
2123 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Sardinian_Averaged Averaged 11.502
2171 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Ingrian_Averaged Averaged 11.788
2184 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Estonian_Averaged Averaged 11.86
2207 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Lithuanian_Averaged Averaged 11.969
2265 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Greek_Central_Anatolia_Averaged Averaged 12.256
2314 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Balikesir_Averaged Averaged 12.548
2322 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Northwest_Averaged Averaged 12.587
2333 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Syrian_Jew_Averaged Averaged 12.691
2392 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Adana_Averaged Averaged 12.93
2405 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Central_Averaged Averaged 12.99
2430 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Latvian_Averaged Averaged 13.085
2436 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Libyan_Jew_Averaged Averaged 13.098
2440 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Karelian_Averaged Averaged 13.104
2469 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Turkish_Aydin_Averaged Averaged 13.181
2480 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Kabardin_Averaged Averaged 13.214
2491 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Tatar_Mishar_Averaged Averaged 13.236
2499 Italian_Aosta_Valley:Average Finnish_East_Averaged Averaged 13.258

[Rocinante]

I want to do this test but seems a bit complicated

[Samnium]

I think that the big outliers in Vibo Valentia, Reggio and Catanzaro (maybe a little less) shift noticeably the average to the south.

[Grace O'Malley]

I want to do this test but seems a bit complicated

It's not complicated. You send in your raw dna to Davidski and he gives you your coordinates. Once you get these you can get other people to post models for you. It is endlessly informative. You could also learn to use some of the easy tools like the Web Runner which does all the work for you. There is also a new program called Vahaduo which is another online tool for G25. There is also the R program with nMonte which gives you a lot more flexibility. The beauty of the Global 25 is you can compare yourself to not only modern but all the ancient genomes as well.

[Rocinante]

It's not complicated. You send in your raw dna to Davidski and he gives you your coordinates. Once you get these you can get other people to post models for you. It is endlessly informative. You could also learn to use some of the easy tools like the Web Runner which does all the work for you. There is also a new program called Vahaduo which is another online tool for G25. There is also the R program with nMonte which gives you a lot more flexibility. The beauty of the Global 25 is you can compare yourself to not only modern but all the ancient genomes as well.

Thank you! I will try

[Vid Flumina]

Can anyone check mine in R? With Vahaduo I get Italian_Northeast first, then Swiss French, Veneto+Trentino, Swiss Italian, Mallorca and only then Aosta but on PCA I'm closer to Aostan than to some of these.

VFlumina_scaled,0.118376,0.141159,0.033564,0.00387 6,0.039084,0.003904,0.00423,0.003,0.000818,0.01858 8,-0.003573,0.007044,-0.016055,-0.011147,-0.005836,0.020551,0.019297,0.003801,0.01169,-0.000625,0.005615,0,-0.001972,0.008917,-0.001916

[Coastal Elite]

Interesting, Swiss-German and French come quite a bit closer to Aosta Valley than Tuscany.

Swiss_German:Average 2.1814
French:Average 2.208
German:Average 4.1224
Italian_Tuscany:Average 4.689
Sicilian_East:Average 7.9954

[Lucas]

Grace, can you ask on Anthrogenica what is the source of Swiss pops in G25? I have feeling that from Novembre 2008 paper. But it is restricted for commercial use. So maybe other study.

[Token]

Aosta is closer to French than to Lombards, quite weird.

[The One]

It's not complicated. You send in your raw dna to Davidski and he gives you your coordinates. Once you get these you can get other people to post models for you. It is endlessly informative. You could also learn to use some of the easy tools like the Web Runner which does all the work for you. There is also a new program called Vahaduo which is another online tool for G25. There is also the R program with nMonte which gives you a lot more flexibility. The beauty of the Global 25 is you can compare yourself to not only modern but all the ancient genomes as well.


How do you send it to this davidski is there a link to him or this site?

[Token]

All Northeast Italians, including South Tyrol, are clinal between Lombards and Austrians.

[1] "distance%=1.125"
Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
Italian_Lombardy,75.8
Austrian,24.2

[1] "distance%=1.4405"
Italian_Veneto
Italian_Lombardy,78.2
Austrian,21.8

[1] "distance%=1.2412"
Italian_Northeast
Italian_Lombardy,60.8
Austrian,25.2
Slovenian,14

[Adamastor]

I was doing a Fit Check on the Irish and noticed a lot of new Italian regions added. What I found interesting was Italian_Aosta Valley and how northern compared to other Italian regions. Italian_Northeast is also more northern shifted. Aosta Valley comes out more northern than any Spanish region. I'll add the closes pops to Aosta Valley in the next post. Italy is very diverse as look at where Calabria is positioned.


From a genetic, phenotypical and even linguistic point of view ''Italians'' are not an ethnicity in the same way Irish or Dutch are. There are many ''Italian'' ethnicities, even if they share cultural memory and history.

''Italian'' from a genetic POV is more like ''Balkan'' in terms of diversity than like ''Irish''. Someone saying he's ethnically ''Italian'' is as vague as one self-defining as ''Balkan'' (what could include anything from Greeks to Slovenians, for example).

[Token]

From a genetic, phenotypical and even linguistic point of view ''Italians'' are not an ethnicity in the same way Irish or Dutch are. There are many ''Italian'' ethnicities, even if they share cultural memory and history.

''Italian'' from a genetic POV is more like ''Balkan'' in terms of diversity than like ''Irish''. Someone saying he's ethnically ''Italian'' is as vague as one self-defining as ''Balkan'' (what could include anything from Greeks to Slovenians, for example).

In North Italy alone i can see three well defined clusters: Aosta-Piedmont (French admixture), Lombardy-Liguria (rather basal North Italian) and Triveneto (Austrian admixture). The farther you get from Lombardy the weirder things become.

[Vid Flumina]

"sample": "Custom:VFlumina_scaled",
"fit": 3.079,
"Austrian": 58.33,
"Italian_Lombardy": 41.67,
"Slovenian": 0,
"closestDistances": [
"Austrian:Austria10: 3.589994",
"Italian_Lombardy:ALP288: 4.122263",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD28: 4.772668",
"Austrian:Austria4: 4.924256",
"Austrian:Austria9: 5.135616",
"Austrian:Austria8: 5.346342",
"Slovenian:Slovenian136: 5.418060",
"Austrian:Austria7: 5.633732",
"Austrian:Austria11: 5.679849",
"Austrian:Austria16: 5.739779",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD301: 5.856278",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD103: 5.904712",
"Austrian:Austria13: 6.287272",
"Austrian:Austria14: 6.368596",
"Austrian:Austria17: 6.405727",
"Slovenian:Slovenian172: 6.453969",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD31: 6.585813",
"Slovenian:Slovenian90: 6.867435",
"Austrian:Austria12: 6.916654",
"Austrian:Austria1: 6.924317",
"Austrian:Austria2: 7.115658",
"Austrian:Austria15: 7.238742",
"Austrian:Austria6: 7.274988",
"Slovenian:Slovenian137: 7.379066",
"Austrian:Austria3: 7.590778",
"Slovenian:Slovenian147: 8.716910",
"Austrian:Austria5: 8.842987"

Adding a western reference improves the fit:

"sample": "Custom:VFlumina_scaled",
"fit": 2.6705,
"Swiss_French": 54.17,
"Italian_Lombardy": 25.83,
"Austrian": 20,
"Slovenian": 0,
"closestDistances": [
"Austrian:Austria10: 3.589994",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French5: 3.669796",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French7: 3.992024",
"Italian_Lombardy:ALP288: 4.122263",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French4: 4.235944",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French2: 4.351396",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French1: 4.650747",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French6: 4.669830",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD28: 4.772668",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French8: 4.814683",
"Austrian:Austria4: 4.924256",
"Austrian:Austria9: 5.135616",
"Austrian:Austria8: 5.346342",
"Slovenian:Slovenian136: 5.418060",
"Austrian:Austria7: 5.633732",
"Austrian:Austria11: 5.679849",
"Austrian:Austria16: 5.739779",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD301: 5.856278",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD103: 5.904712",
"Austrian:Austria13: 6.287272",
"Austrian:Austria14: 6.368596",
"Austrian:Austria17: 6.405727",
"Slovenian:Slovenian172: 6.453969",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French3: 6.560001",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD31: 6.585813",
"Slovenian:Slovenian90: 6.867435",
"Austrian:Austria12: 6.916654",
"Austrian:Austria1: 6.924317",
"Austrian:Austria2: 7.115658",
"Austrian:Austria15: 7.238742",
"Austrian:Austria6: 7.274988",
"Slovenian:Slovenian137: 7.379066",
"Austrian:Austria3: 7.590778",
"Slovenian:Slovenian147: 8.716910",
"Austrian:Austria5: 8.842987"

[J. Ketch]

Aosta is closer to French than to Lombards, quite weird.
Shouldn't be that surprising, it was French/Burgundian/Savoyard historically.

[Vid Flumina]

https://i.imgur.com/0eHYQaY.png

Interesting how close I am to Aostans in overall autosomal profile and how far down they show up in distances, I even get some Austrians/Belgians/Swiss Germans/East French before them:



"sample": "Custom:VFlumina_scaled",
"fit": 1.8815,
"Italian_Northeast": 44.17,
"Italian_Veneto": 20.83,
"French": 10,
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige": 7.5,
"Belgian": 6.67,
"German": 5.83,
"Swiss_French": 5,
"Austrian": 0,
"French_East": 0,
"Italian_Aosta_Valley": 0,
"Italian_Lombardy": 0,
"Swiss_German": 0,
"closestDistances": [
"Italian_Northeast:ALP235: 2.307980",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803151: 2.427080",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP354: 2.736628",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803105: 2.891589",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP378: 2.941626",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP081: 3.163027",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP071: 3.244453",
"Italian_Northeast:KF2700922: 3.416999",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1800772: 3.427296",
"French:French35: 3.436872",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP093: 3.456558",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP220: 3.459681",
"French:French30: 3.539092",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP116: 3.580096",
"Austrian:Austria10: 3.589994",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French5: 3.669796",
"French:French62: 3.831063",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1800751: 3.850299",
"Italian_Veneto:Alp401: 3.856531",
"French:French8: 3.881100",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP346: 3.897434",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP022: 3.914746",
"French:French5: 3.927741",
"Belgian:Belgium6: 3.990373",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French7: 3.992024",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP114: 4.007505",
"Italian_Northeast:KF1803129: 4.024628",
"French:French19: 4.037065",
"Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP227: 4.079236",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP435: 4.092131",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German1: 4.105761",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP259: 4.116737",
"Italian_Lombardy:ALP288: 4.122263",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP273: 4.131701",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP250: 4.165113",
"French_East:French24148: 4.166189",
"French:French9: 4.171341",
"French:French65: 4.192275",
"French_East:French24075: 4.193851",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP200: 4.214574",
"Belgian:Belgium8: 4.220716",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French4: 4.235944",
"French:French47: 4.242546",
"Belgian:Belgium5: 4.254547",
"Italian_Northeast:KF1800761: 4.265892",
"Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP225: 4.273526",
"Italian_Veneto:Alp100: 4.280512",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP395: 4.282378",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German5: 4.309067",
"German:German28: 4.328452",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP209: 4.331206",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French2: 4.351396",
"French:French3: 4.395156",
"Belgian:Belgium26: 4.506800",
"French:French36: 4.531571",
"Belgian:Belgium15: 4.569296",
"French_East:French24124: 4.571325",
"French:French64: 4.577426",
"Belgian:Belgium24: 4.583528",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German4: 4.591075",
"French:French40: 4.598767",
"French:French10: 4.608819",
"French:French63: 4.611298",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German8: 4.644711",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French1: 4.650747",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French6: 4.669830",
"French:French38: 4.679064",
"German:German55: 4.690882",
"German:German48: 4.714520",
"French:French7: 4.720113",
"French:French23: 4.744592",
"French:French32: 4.747942",
"French_East:French24076: 4.766883",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD28: 4.772668",
"French:French22: 4.780239",
"French:French25: 4.796571",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French8: 4.814683",
"French:French1: 4.843410",
"French:French21: 4.892438",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP233: 4.901032",
"German:German7: 4.911125",
"French:French18: 4.916931",
"Austrian:Austria4: 4.924256",
"French:French53: 4.944920",
"Belgian:Belgium7: 4.948740",
"French:French31: 4.948912",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803109: 4.966270",
"German:German61: 4.980431",
"French:French28: 4.980667",
"French:French2: 4.996941",
"Italian_Northeast:KF2700960: 4.997574",
"German:German70: 5.007013",
"French:French52: 5.009774",
"French:French67: 5.031604",
"Belgian:Belgium18: 5.051030",
"French:French54: 5.065340",
"German:German5: 5.065758",
"French_East:French24433: 5.083263",
"Belgian:Belgium19: 5.096429",
"German:German44: 5.107194"

Also nMonte algorithm literally rejects them - unless I force him not to - when I try to model myself despite having some minor but direct Aostan ancestry

[Dick]

I noticed this too with the new spreadsheetusing vahaduo;

0.01805367 Bosnian
0.01867473 Montenegrin
0.02029805 Serbian
0.02420326 Romanian
0.02643112 Macedonian
0.02842188 Croatian
0.03048957 Bulgarian
0.03127328 Slovenian
0.03230342 Moldavian
0.03371643 Hungarian
0.03669228 Gagauz
0.03703566 Austrian
0.03704567 Italian_Northeast_o
0.03860625 Scythian_HUN
0.04040187 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige_o
0.04124453 DEU_MA_ACD
0.04284157 Italian_Northeast
0.04392856 BGR_Varna_En3
0.04600005 HUN_MA
0.04630283 UKR_Chernyakhiv_Shyshaky
0.04722052 Czech
0.04803802 HUN_MA_Szolad
0.04827140 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04944024 French_East
0.05045205 Bell_Beaker_HUN_EBA

[Lucas]

https://i.imgur.com/0eHYQaY.png

Interesting how close I am to Aostans in overall autosomal profile and how far down they show up in distances, I even get some Austrians/Belgians/Swiss Germans/East French before them:



"sample": "Custom:VFlumina_scaled",
"fit": 1.8815,
"Italian_Northeast": 44.17,
"Italian_Veneto": 20.83,
"French": 10,
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige": 7.5,
"Belgian": 6.67,
"German": 5.83,
"Swiss_French": 5,
"Austrian": 0,
"French_East": 0,
"Italian_Aosta_Valley": 0,
"Italian_Lombardy": 0,
"Swiss_German": 0,
"closestDistances": [
"Italian_Northeast:ALP235: 2.307980",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803151: 2.427080",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP354: 2.736628",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803105: 2.891589",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP378: 2.941626",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP081: 3.163027",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP071: 3.244453",
"Italian_Northeast:KF2700922: 3.416999",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1800772: 3.427296",
"French:French35: 3.436872",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP093: 3.456558",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP220: 3.459681",
"French:French30: 3.539092",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP116: 3.580096",
"Austrian:Austria10: 3.589994",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French5: 3.669796",
"French:French62: 3.831063",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1800751: 3.850299",
"Italian_Veneto:Alp401: 3.856531",
"French:French8: 3.881100",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP346: 3.897434",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP022: 3.914746",
"French:French5: 3.927741",
"Belgian:Belgium6: 3.990373",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French7: 3.992024",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP114: 4.007505",
"Italian_Northeast:KF1803129: 4.024628",
"French:French19: 4.037065",
"Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP227: 4.079236",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP435: 4.092131",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German1: 4.105761",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP259: 4.116737",
"Italian_Lombardy:ALP288: 4.122263",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP273: 4.131701",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP250: 4.165113",
"French_East:French24148: 4.166189",
"French:French9: 4.171341",
"French:French65: 4.192275",
"French_East:French24075: 4.193851",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP200: 4.214574",
"Belgian:Belgium8: 4.220716",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French4: 4.235944",
"French:French47: 4.242546",
"Belgian:Belgium5: 4.254547",
"Italian_Northeast:KF1800761: 4.265892",
"Italian_Aosta_Valley:ALP225: 4.273526",
"Italian_Veneto:Alp100: 4.280512",
"Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige:ALP395: 4.282378",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German5: 4.309067",
"German:German28: 4.328452",
"Italian_Veneto:ALP209: 4.331206",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French2: 4.351396",
"French:French3: 4.395156",
"Belgian:Belgium26: 4.506800",
"French:French36: 4.531571",
"Belgian:Belgium15: 4.569296",
"French_East:French24124: 4.571325",
"French:French64: 4.577426",
"Belgian:Belgium24: 4.583528",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German4: 4.591075",
"French:French40: 4.598767",
"French:French10: 4.608819",
"French:French63: 4.611298",
"Swiss_German:Swiss_German8: 4.644711",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French1: 4.650747",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French6: 4.669830",
"French:French38: 4.679064",
"German:German55: 4.690882",
"German:German48: 4.714520",
"French:French7: 4.720113",
"French:French23: 4.744592",
"French:French32: 4.747942",
"French_East:French24076: 4.766883",
"Italian_Lombardy:BGD28: 4.772668",
"French:French22: 4.780239",
"French:French25: 4.796571",
"Swiss_French:Swiss_French8: 4.814683",
"French:French1: 4.843410",
"French:French21: 4.892438",
"Italian_Northeast:ALP233: 4.901032",
"German:German7: 4.911125",
"French:French18: 4.916931",
"Austrian:Austria4: 4.924256",
"French:French53: 4.944920",
"Belgian:Belgium7: 4.948740",
"French:French31: 4.948912",
"Italian_Veneto:KF1803109: 4.966270",
"German:German61: 4.980431",
"French:French28: 4.980667",
"French:French2: 4.996941",
"Italian_Northeast:KF2700960: 4.997574",
"German:German70: 5.007013",
"French:French52: 5.009774",
"French:French67: 5.031604",
"Belgian:Belgium18: 5.051030",
"French:French54: 5.065340",
"German:German5: 5.065758",
"French_East:French24433: 5.083263",
"Belgian:Belgium19: 5.096429",
"German:German44: 5.107194"

Also nMonte algorithm literally rejects them - unless I force him not to - when I try to model myself despite having some minor but direct Aostan ancestry

Those are only two samples. Maybe outliers.