Why people from Northeast Italy get Middle Eastern/West Asian on MyHeritage?

[Adamastor]

First of all, this is not a trolling thread. I have ancestry from Friuli/Veneto/Tyrol myself.


I was roaming through some MyHeritage results of people with origins in Veneto and Friuli and they sometimes got West Asian and Middle Eastern in significant amounts (5-10%). Is this some kind of CHG-related type of ancestry being (purposefully) read as ''Middle Eastern/West Asian''?

It seems it's a deliberate attempt of MyHeritage of giving ''diverse'' genetic origins to everyone because when these same people upload the raw DNA to GEDmatch all of this West Asian related type of DNA disappears and the results just become normal Northern Italian. I also see MyHeritage reading Northern Italian DNA as Iberian or even Baltic many times. Many people with significant ancestry from Northern Italy get very few amounts of Italian there.

[MercifulServant]

It’s just miscalculated. Not real middle eastern just ancient.

[PaleoEuropean]

First of all, this is not a trolling thread. I have ancestry from Friuli/Veneto/Tyrol myself.


I was roaming through some MyHeritage results of people with origins in Veneto and Friuli and they sometimes got West Asian and Middle Eastern in significant amounts (5-10%). Is this some kind of CHG-related type of ancestry being (purposefully) read as ''Middle Eastern/West Asian''?

It seems it's a deliberate attempt of MyHeritage of giving ''diverse'' genetic origins to everyone because when these same people upload the raw DNA to GEDmatch all of this West Asian related type of DNA disappears and the results just become normal Northern Italian. I also see MyHeritage reading Northern Italian DNA as Iberian or even Baltic many times. Many people with significant ancestry from Northern Italy get very few amounts of Italian there.

Northern Italy has shifted through many hands including the Spanish, also many Conversos and Sephardi fled to Italy and assimilated.

[catgeorge]

North Italy is 50% R1b 30% neolithic and 20% I

[Pine]

First of all, this is not a trolling thread. I have ancestry from Friuli/Veneto/Tyrol myself.


I was roaming through some MyHeritage results of people with origins in Veneto and Friuli and they sometimes got West Asian and Middle Eastern in significant amounts (5-10%). Is this some kind of CHG-related type of ancestry being (purposefully) read as ''Middle Eastern/West Asian''?

It seems it's a deliberate attempt of MyHeritage of giving ''diverse'' genetic origins to everyone because when these same people upload the raw DNA to GEDmatch all of this West Asian related type of DNA disappears and the results just become normal Northern Italian. I also see MyHeritage reading Northern Italian DNA as Iberian or even Baltic many times. Many people with significant ancestry from Northern Italy get very few amounts of Italian there.

And when MyHeritage assigned me some West Asian and Middle Eastern instead of a Jewish group, it was to simultaneously weaken my connection with the Jewish people and to make me identify with the Palestinian cause.

[Adamastor]

Northern Italy has shifted through many hands including the Spanish, also many Conversos and Sephardi fled to Italy and assimilated.

It does not show on GEDmatch though (all of these percentages generally got reduced). That's why I asked the question.

I know you're just trolling (as usual in any threads about Italians), but Northern Italian genetic profile doesn't have any significant Jewish or Middle Eastern influence.

[PaleoEuropean]

It does not show on GEDmatch though (all of these percentages generally got reduced). That's why I asked the question.

I know you're just trolling (as usual in any threads about Italians), but Northern Italian genetic profile doesn't have any significant Jewish or Middle Eastern influence.

I only troll trolls, it's historical fact that many Jews and some converted Arabs fled to Northern Italy. Sephardi usually shows up as Spanish or Middle Eastern. You just stated in the OP that the regions you mentioned have a lot of middle eastern admixture. If you don't like the answers don't ask the question, you can do your own research and easily confirm what I am saying :ranger

[Adamastor]

I only troll trolls, it's historical fact that many Jews and some converted Arabs fled to Northern Italy. Sephardi usually shows up as Spanish or Middle Eastern. You just stated in the OP that the regions you mentioned have a lot of middle eastern admixture. If you don't like the answers don't ask the question, you can do your own research and easily confirm what I am saying :ranger

They don't have recent ''Middle Eastern admixture'' because the same admixture disappears in other calculators. That's why I was asking the question to begin with, how MyHeritage manage to give Middle Eastern for these regions and not to neighbouring regions with much more MENA, that was the question.

Northern Italians have very small affinity with the Middle East overall and are even closer to Iberians and S. French than to Balkanites, let alone Caucasus and Levant. Again, stop trolling or talking about things you don't know.

[PaleoEuropean]

They don't have recent ''Middle Eastern admixture'' because the same admixture disappears in other calculators. That's why was asking the question to begin with, how MyHeritage manage to give Middle Eastern for these regions and not to neighbouring regions with much more MENA, that was the question.

Northern Italians have very small affinity with the Middle East overall and are even closer to Iberians and S. French than to Balkanites, let alone Caucasus and Levant. Again, stop trolling or talking about things you don't know.

How do you know though that the neighboring regions are more of anything? Thats what admixture tests are supposed to tell us (admittingly they don't do a perfect or even great job). Both places you mentioned were bastions for Jews: https://www.j-italy.org/friuli-veneziagiulia/

https://www.j-italy.org/veneto/

[Benyzero]

Myheritage sucks, It will def take few more years for it to be more accurate. Most people buying it in hungary because it is the most (only) promoted dna company you can see in the commercials, and is cheaper , reasonably. Atleast their database will improve with time

[renaissance12]

First of all, this is not a trolling thread. I have ancestry from Friuli/Veneto/Tyrol myself.


I was roaming through some MyHeritage results of people with origins in Veneto and Friuli and they sometimes got West Asian and Middle Eastern in significant amounts (5-10%). Is this some kind of CHG-related type of ancestry being (purposefully) read as ''Middle Eastern/West Asian''?

It seems it's a deliberate attempt of MyHeritage of giving ''diverse'' genetic origins to everyone because when these same people upload the raw DNA to GEDmatch all of this West Asian related type of DNA disappears and the results just become normal Northern Italian. I also see MyHeritage reading Northern Italian DNA as Iberian or even Baltic many times. Many people with significant ancestry from Northern Italy get very few amounts of Italian there.


Rovigo was close to Bizantine Empire for long time..( it is possibile that many people from Turkey came to Rovigo )

If you go to Rovigo ( South veneto ) Ferrara Ravenna Forlì ( Emilia Romagna )..you can find more people with dark hair and olive skin than in the other parts of Veneto..

Emilia Romagna is the "darkest" region of North-italy ( it is true in my opinion )..


https://ilsizzi.files.wordpress.com/2015/05/biondismo.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/6/64/Byzantiumby650AD.svg/1920px-Byzantiumby650AD.svg.png
Rovigo..

https://i2.wp.com/www.portovirando.it/wp/wp-content/uploads/2016/09/Logo_Regione_veneto.gif?fit=384%2C413

[Adamastor]

Myheritage sucks, It will def take few more years for it to be more accurate. Most people buying it in hungary because it is the most (only) promoted dna company you can see in the commercials, and is cheaper , reasonably. Atleast their database will improve with time

Yeah, it's the only one available for a reasonable price where I live too. I did a 23andme, but many people in my family used MyHeritage.

They actually gave one of my cousins (1/4 Venetian/Friulan) an accurate autosomal result but we needed to ''interpret'' it. They divided his Northeast Italian into ''Italian'' proper, ''Baltic'' and West Asian/Middle Eastern . I've seen tons of similar results for people of partial or fully Northern Italian descent in which they did the same.


How do you know though that the neighboring regions are more of anything?

Gedmatch, G25, academic peer-reviwed studies etc. It's ridiculous that South Italians score only Greek & South Italian and some North Italians got ''West Asian'' and ''Baltic'' instead of only ''Italian''. MyHeritage sucks to detect Northern Italian ancestry.

[PaleoEuropean]

Yeah, it's the only one available for a reasonable price where I live too. I did a 23andme, but many people in my family used MyHeritage.

They actually gave one of my cousins (1/4 Venetian/Friulan) an accurate autosomal result but we needed to ''interpret'' it. They divided his Northeast Italian into ''Italian'' proper, ''Baltic'' and West Asian/Middle Eastern . I've seen tons of similar results for people of partial or fully Northern Italian descent in which they did the same.



Gedmatch, G25, academic peer-reviwed studies etc. It's ridiculous that South Italians score only Greek & South Italian and some North Italians got ''West Asian'' and ''Baltic'' instead of only ''Italian''. MyHeritage sucks to detect Northern Italian ancestry.

My heritage sucks period, it's only good for very very basic information

[Adamastor]

My heritage sucks period, it's only good for very very basic information

MyHeritage is only good for neworlders who want to know their exact European, Amerindian and African percentages, but it's bad to differentiate between European ethnicities.

[Enr1989]

I am from North-Eastern Italy myself, imported raw data from 23andMe where I also score very high in NW European, no British isles though.
Also Middle Eastern is very high compared to Gedmatch that is about 1-1.5% depends by the calculator and 0 on 23andMe.
The real surprise for me was the really high Irish,Scottish and Welsh, is that common for northern Italians? Is that any reliable?

Europe
96.5%
North and West Europe
44.5%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
25.6%
North and West European
18.9%

South Europe
38.8%
Italian
38.8%

East Europe
13.2%
Balkan
13.2%

Middle East
3.5%
Middle East
3.5%

[PaleoEuropean]

I am from North-Eastern Italy myself, imported raw data from 23andMe where I also score very high in NW European, no British isles though.
Also Middle Eastern is very high compared to Gedmatch that is about 1-1.5% depends by the calculator and 0 on 23andMe.
The real surprise for me was the really high Irish,Scottish and Welsh, is that common for northern Italians? Is that any reliable?

Europe
96.5%
North and West Europe
44.5%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
25.6%
North and West European
18.9%
South Europe
38.8%
Italian
38.8%
East Europe
13.2%
Balkan
13.2%
Middle East
3.5%
Middle East
3.5%

Could be noise from the Lombards who had some similar Scandinavian ancestry. A lot of times those regions are super broad.

[Enr1989]

I have seen other northern Italians results on you tube, many get high Iberian and Central Europe but never seen this

[xripkan]

I am from North-Eastern Italy myself, imported raw data from 23andMe where I also score very high in NW European, no British isles though.
Also Middle Eastern is very high compared to Gedmatch that is about 1-1.5% depends by the calculator and 0 on 23andMe.
The real surprise for me was the really high Irish,Scottish and Welsh, is that common for northern Italians? Is that any reliable?

Europe
96.5%
North and West Europe
44.5%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
25.6%
North and West European
18.9%

South Europe
38.8%
Italian
38.8%

East Europe
13.2%
Balkan
13.2%

Middle East
3.5%
Middle East
3.5%

Can you post your gedmatch results?

[itilvolga]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRz24HeWHSjjfDPIlp7HfE0uTBKn06 Bj48R3h6h_wxlKVgwjiQE

[Enr1989]

Can you post your gedmatch results?

k13

Population
North_Atlantic 32.71 Pct
Baltic 16.80 Pct
West_Med 19.67 Pct
West_Asian 9.75 Pct
East_Med 17.19 Pct
Red_Sea 1.65 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.04 Pct
Siberian 0.79 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.39 Pct

k15


Population
North_Sea 22.63 Pct
Atlantic 20.22 Pct
Baltic 6.90 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.41 Pct
West_Med 15.95 Pct
West_Asian 9.38 Pct
East_Med 13.09 Pct
Red_Sea 2.36 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.49 Pct
Siberian 0.28 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.28 Pct

[Kyp]

Why not? -> Should be the real question

[TheMaestro]

When myHeritage becomes legit we can start this thread.

[Kyp]

For northwest europeans this is myheritage trying to assign their components:

https://www.bestcrapsstrategy.net/images/street-craps.jpg

[xripkan]

k13

Population
North_Atlantic 32.71 Pct
Baltic 16.80 Pct
West_Med 19.67 Pct
West_Asian 9.75 Pct
East_Med 17.19 Pct
Red_Sea 1.65 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian 1.04 Pct
Siberian 0.79 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.39 Pct

k15


Population
North_Sea 22.63 Pct
Atlantic 20.22 Pct
Baltic 6.90 Pct
Eastern_Euro 8.41 Pct
West_Med 15.95 Pct
West_Asian 9.38 Pct
East_Med 13.09 Pct
Red_Sea 2.36 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian 0.49 Pct
Siberian 0.28 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.28 Pct

You seem typical for your region I think. One explanation is that Northern Italians have mostly continental Celt ancestry and 23andme algorithm reads it as NW Europe. Could you post also your K15 oracle?

[Enr1989]

You seem typical for your region I think. One explanation is that Northern Italians have mostly continental Celt ancestry and 23andme algorithm reads it as NW Europe. Could you post also your K15 oracle?

I have high North sea and Eastern europe and low Atlantic and Baltic for the region.
And I guess the same but still doesnt explain why other people from the same area don't score that.


For northwest europeans this is myheritage trying to assign their components:

https://www.bestcrapsstrategy.net/images/street-craps.jpg


LOL they are trying to make everyone embrace "diversity"



For northwest europeans this is myheritage trying to assign their components:

[Vid Flumina]

I am from North-Eastern Italy myself, imported raw data from 23andMe where I also score very high in NW European, no British isles though.
Also Middle Eastern is very high compared to Gedmatch that is about 1-1.5% depends by the calculator and 0 on 23andMe.
The real surprise for me was the really high Irish,Scottish and Welsh, is that common for northern Italians? Is that any reliable?

Europe
96.5%
North and West Europe
44.5%
Irish, Scottish, and Welsh
25.6%
North and West European
18.9%

South Europe
38.8%
Italian
38.8%

East Europe
13.2%
Balkan
13.2%

Middle East
3.5%
Middle East
3.5%

I'm only half Northeast Italian but got similar breakdown, though LivingDNA is infamous for inflating British ancestry:

https://i.imgur.com/KQJ6M7k.png

[Tenma de Pegasus]

You seem typical for your region I think. One explanation is that Northern Italians have mostly continental Celt ancestry and 23andme algorithm reads it as NW Europe. Could you post also your K15 oracle?

I always thought north italians are more some sort of a german-med mix than a celtic-med mix that is more a Iberian or South French thing.

[xripkan]

I always thought north italians are more some sort of a german-med mix than a celtic-med admixture that is more a Iberian or South French thing.

They have german admixture but they are mostly Celts, they are very close to Iberians and South French.

[Enr1989]

I'm only half Northeast Italian but got similar breakdown, though LivingDNA is infamous for inflating British ancestry:

https://i.imgur.com/KQJ6M7k.png

Did you upload the data in My heritage?Results?

[Adamastor]

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn%3AANd9GcRz24HeWHSjjfDPIlp7HfE0uTBKn06 Bj48R3h6h_wxlKVgwjiQE

That's not an explanation because this admixture becomes 0 when we upload data to GEDmatch. I was just wondering wtf MyHeritage translate as ''Middle Eastern'' and ''West Asian'' in Northern Italians.

In 23andme I have 0% Middle Eastern and in GEDmatch my West Asian + East Med is low for Southern European standards (and I score no Red Sea, Southwest Asian etc). But somehow MyHeritage gave me 12% Middle Eastern + West Asian lol.

[itilvolga]

That's not an explanation because this admixture becomes 0 when we upload data to GEDmatch. I was just wondering wtf MyHeritage translate as ''Middle Eastern'' and ''West Asian'' in Northern Italians.

In 23andme I have 0% Middle Eastern and in GEDmatch my West Asian + East Med is low for Southern European standards (and I score no Red Sea, Southwest Asian etc). But somehow MyHeritage gave me 12% Middle Eastern + West Asian lol.

It was just a wild guess, i didn’t even take a look at any Northern Italian results to find it out.

[Vid Flumina]

Did you upload the data in My heritage?Results?

Far lower British 15% at most, but massive balkan at over 1/4. No middle east or west asia

[Enr1989]

Far lower British 15% at most, but massive balkan at over 1/4. No middle east or west asia
You are half Piedmontese, you should have more "Celtic" than me

[Vid Flumina]

You are half Piedmontese, you should have more "Celtic" than me

This is Myheritage after all :)

It also depends where in Piedmont, like Lazio or Emilia Romagna it is one of those regions where results diverge significantly from one end to the other.
I saw results from Cuneo area that are close to Aostans, while the Piedmontese samples recently added to g25 - which appartently are the Ligurian speakers of Val Borbera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Borbera) - cannot be told apart from Northern Tuscans/Ligurians.
I seriously doubt areas like this and those bordering Southern Lombardy have more "Celtic"-like ancestry than Friuli.

Look how far off they are sitting on a PCA compared to actual Celtic populations like Bretons:

https://i.imgur.com/fSDYTDF.png

*Italian_Northeast are Friulians by the way and "ubora" dot west of them is me; you can sort of guess what my Northwest half is like

[Enr1989]

This is Myheritage after all :)

It also depends where in Piedmont, like Lazio or Emilia Romagna it is one of those regions where results diverge significantly from one end to the other.
I saw results from Cuneo area that are close to Aostans, while the Piedmontese samples recently added to g25 - which appartently are the Ligurian speakers of Val Borbera (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Val_Borbera) - cannot be told apart from Northern Tuscans/Ligurians.
I seriously doubt areas like this and those bordering Southern Lombardy have more "Celtic"-like ancestry than Friuli.

Look how far off they are sitting on a PCA compared to actual Celtic populations like Bretons:

https://i.imgur.com/fSDYTDF.png

*Italian_Northeast are Friulians by the way and "ubora" dot west of them is me; you can sort of guess what my Northwest half is like

So on this map Friulans plot significatly more north than any otehr Italian excluding obviously French Val D'aosta and Austrian Trentino Alto Adige, that is quiet new to me, in most of oracles we are just a little bit eastern than Veneto and sligthly southern shifted than them.

You seem to be half Friulan half French Provence according to this map,the funny thing that you are way more western shifted than me and score massive Balkan, results should be the other way around,lol.

Btw where did you find it?Did do it yourself

[Vid Flumina]

So on this map Friulans plot significatly more north than any otehr Italian excluding obviously French Val D'aosta and Austrian Trentino Alto Adige, that is quiet new to me, in most of oracles we are just a little bit eastern than Veneto and sligthly southern shifted than them.

As I mentioned, sampling location can change a lot of things.
For instance, Sazzini study from 2016 has Cuneo on top of Italian cline; also there's a difference between Padova (more mainstream North Italian) and Vicenza:

https://media.springernature.com/full/nature-static/assets/v1/image-assets/srep32513-f1.jpg


You seem to be half Friulan half French Provence according to this map,the funny thing that you are way more western shifted than me and score massive Balkan, results should be the other way around,lol.

Btw where did you find it?Did do it yourself

ph2ter made it, just post your g25 coordinates ITT and he will place you on the map:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?291550-G25-Unscaled-Apricity-and-Anthrogenica-Users&p=6246441&viewfull=1#post6246441