Balkans, Central Europe, Ukraine academic samples on gedmatch [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 09:28 AM

AK9411654Albanian_E2a1
UW5270701Albanian_J1b3
PE5157964Albanian_J2b2
RN6040993Albanian_Tirana_ALB191.txt
MN6423456Albanian_Tirana_ALB202
PS8033219Albanian_Tirana_ALB212
UQ7124833Albanian_Tirana_ALB213
NJ6783433Albanian_Tirana_ALB220
EN1123333Albanian_Tirana_ALB230
RC5916908Albanian1_dg
MF6835404Bulgarian1.DG_Plovdiv
HC2036671Bulgarian2.DG_Plovdiv
GF2595539BulgarianA1_Plovdiv
BJ7283343BulgarianA4_Plovdiv
MZ3633378BulgarianB1_Plovdiv
LG6306881BulgarianB4_Plovdiv
JE8178199BulgarianC1_Plovdiv
TE4958305BulgarianD6_Plovdiv
DR5232380BulgarianE2_Plovdiv
LS9939044BulgarianF1_Plovdiv
UE9549879BulgarianF2_Plovdiv
QA4453155BulgarianH2_Plovdiv
QE4937656Cossack_Kuban_N3a4
RG7101326Cossacks_Kuban_r1a1c
XN2475331Cossacks_Zaporozhie_r1a1d
ZU7033837Cossacks_Zaporozhie_r1a2b
BZ1292358Croatian_Split_CRO103
KF7635766Croatian_Split_CRO107
CK9480635Croatian_Split_CRO153
GL4082504Croatian_Split_CRO31
ZB5145703Croatian_Split_CRO41
EF2976947Croatian_Split_CRO47
SR9089754Croatian_Split_CRO48
BV3010803Croatian_Split_CRO53
NK7287400Croatian_Split_CRO66
CN7368883Croatian_Split_CRO93
GA7053145Czech_NA15724
DM1506551Czech_NA15725
AJ8371405Czech_NA15726
CU4505710Czech_NA15727
LH2515905Czech_NA15728
KA3839511Czech_NA15729
TN8072276Czech_NA15730
YH8696470Czech_NA15731
SW7024609Czech_NA15732
UW4976302Czech_NA15733
PS6603919Greek_Athens_TLA010
KZ2878484Greek_Athens_TLA011
TG3224194Greek_Athens_TLA012
SQ8463507Greek_Athens_TLA013
JC7104463Greek_Athens_TLA015
ND3161611Greek_Athens_TLA017
XT5766065Greek_Athens_TLA018
GK2555695Greek_Athens_TLA019
XX5948829Greek_Athens_TLA020
JQ3241309Greek_Athens_TLA021
KK2187804Greek_Athens_TLA022
ZX2481851Greek_Athens_TLA023
BQ9845365Greek_Athens_TLA024
MV5678028Greek_Athens_TLA025
MG6090714Greek_Athens_TLA026
MZ8683214Greek_Athens_TLA027
CE3055074Greek_Athens_TLA028
TE8676703Greek_Athens_TLA029
MC1515926Greek_i1
KH9141776Greek_i2
MZ6516300Greek_NA17372
MW8201665Greek_NA17373
YQ7287239Greek_NA17374
TQ6480168Greek_NA17375
GQ8072933Greek_NA17376
TJ5773193Greek_NA17377
UD2497954Greek_Preveliana_Irakleioy_B_Crete1DG
PX8527337Greek_Psychro_Lassithi_B_Crete2DG
CB4175809Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP10
MF6461382Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP11
ZQ9763942Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP12
FK2990768Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP13
LB4645049Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP14
TL2705417Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP15
XE5751468Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP16
WA6074152Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP17
YC9960374Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP18
XG2096127Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP3
ZQ8983256Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP4
ML4823281Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP5
PE2890423Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP8
ZF5306199Greek_Thessaloniki_GREEKGRALPOP9
LG4340148Greek1.DG
HJ4206086Greek2.DG
AW7747391Hungarian_a
RN8973201Hungarian_Bohdan_Rakhiv_Zakarpatska_Ukr_I 1a
EJ9481459Hungarian_NA15199
PJ7942441Hungarian_NA15200
HJ6860158Hungarian_NA15201
HZ2648538Hungarian_NA15202
HT2094395Hungarian_NA15203
SS1941057Hungarian_NA15204
DD9444302Hungarian_NA15205
WF8010503Hungarian_NA15206
ER1867377Hungarian_NA15207
PM1724937Hungarian_NA15208
UW1411325Hungarian1.DG
XG1410311Hungarian2.DG
SD5451360HungarianC5_Budapest
CE9980131HungarianD1_Budapest
YG5776680HungarianE5_Budapest
YR8849830HungarianH3_Budapest
XS9104600hungary1
FV3533569hungary10
WG3481088hungary11
CV2966032hungary12
XK5692244hungary13
UP6739460hungary14
RG6017917hungary15
LB9038795hungary15_Budapest
UW8233843hungary16
FZ2916650hungary17
SK5831374hungary18
MM8689252hungary19
BM9788855hungary2
PP2666227hungary2_Budapest
PE6571901hungary20
SX8867277hungary20_Budapest
WW4863806hungary3
KW9888928hungary3_Budapest
UR7519092hungary4
SP6290793hungary5
HE9310612hungary6
DG6304163hungary6_Budapest
EJ4021822hungary7
AR6443181hungary7_Budapest
UD7702343hungary8
KK4672793hungary9
CM2678489Moldavian
ZW2326107Moldavian_G2a1
CZ7344575moldavian_V02612
JA8090639moldavian_V13693
DN1116786moldavian_V28645
JR6490623moldavian_V44175
GG5842270moldavian_V46055
QY8192067moldavian_V48759
JR2297171moldavian_V49937
KL5552400Montenegrin_14
LC1716879Montenegrin1
RK5042656Montenegrin10
YL5365877Montenegrin11
FB3038107Montenegrin15
AC1013834Montenegrin17
XC1618641Montenegrin19
TF8713125Montenegrin20
YA5787928Montenegrin21
MN4421166Montenegrin4
NY3594330Montenegrin5
CH6304003Montenegrin6
FK3801015Montenegrin7
AV3303547Montenegrin9
BS6729679Romanian_Apuseni_Horea_A306
YK4364845Romanian_Apuseni_Horea_A325
DK8294300Romanian_Apuseni_Horea_A343
GA2723141Romanian_Apuseni_Horea_A362
MN8580719Romanian_Apuseni_Horea_A374
TT8822564Romanian_Gorj_Tismana_G408
HM1819885Romanian_Gorj_Tismana_G421
NW7039713Romanian_Gorj_Tismana_G428
GE3813125Romanian_Gorj_Tismana_G429
YV6490417Romanian_Gorj_Tismana_G434
QN8473308Serbian_BH_4
NA3080589Serbian_BH11
MJ1503912Serbian_BH7
MH5435627Serbian_BH9
PH4983926Serbian_Serbia_12
DH2299907Serbian_Serbia1
TN5258464Serbian_Serbia10
WP4899669Serbian_Serbia11
CS2166040Serbian_Serbia16
NG8904949Serbian_Serbia18
FA5869591Serbian_Serbia19
UE7148554Serbian_Serbia2
RU7105080Serbian_Serbia3
NX1459256Serbian_Serbia4
RQ5598618Serbian_Serbia5
DM4229721Serbian_Serbia6
UG7135752Serbian_Serbia7
HB9342643Serbian_Serbia9
JK2340193Slovakia118
YQ8219092Slovakia150
MF1549110Slovakia218
DY6625423Slovakia222
PZ8021530Slovakia233
BU2310885Slovakia235
BS6613143Slovakia256
JS4569555Slovakia411
LU1956571Slovakia425
TY3087366Slovakia429
MG9335752Slovakia474
UU2179636Slovakia77
WY7311423Slovakia85
MV3641252Slovakia94
QG4691983Slovakia96
ZD4091876Slovenian_14
SJ1127070Slovenian_8
ZS8957116Slovenian136
YW7774737Slovenian137
BP4318140Slovenian147
SJ7656272Slovenian172
SF5393037Slovenian184
TX3283788Slovenian188
FH7895994Slovenian237
PQ7519412Slovenian241
RT7548330Slovenian271
LJ2497366Slovenian275
MV8899827Slovenian299
NN2483207Slovenian321
XU8215762Slovenian90
SR8973420Ukraine130
BN5470881Ukraine133
YM2878648Ukraine136
QG4532062Ukraine141
YD5189065Ukraine94
TC7354274Ukraine97
NA7846664UkrainePol19
XJ7271625UkrainePol25
PY5552526Ukrainian_Chernigov_R1a1c
LW5549306Ukrainian_Chernivetska_R1a1c
JC4353470Ukrainian_Harkiv_r1a1c
UR3255634Ukrainian_Rivnenska_R1b8
YJ1382047Ukrainian_Sumi_R1a1b
TG3639954Ukrainian_Sumi_R1a1c
BN5524070Ukrainian_Zhytomir_R1a1a
MW3377762UkrBel614
EN2489269UkrBel618
LV6894312UkrBel620
RL8887294UkrBel622
YH1143769UkrBel733
MG8615644UkrBel736
FX6177821UkrLv215
EV9258569UkrLv223
WF5027156UkrLv226
NF2707044UkrLv228
SU2043360UkrLv237
RL6718578UkrLv240

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 09:33 AM

if you plot any of them here https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm please save their xy coordinates and post them here so i can add them to my pca too.

Leto

09-23-2019, 09:59 AM

Interesting to see a Hungarian from Ukraine

Kit RN8973201

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.53
2 Baltic 33.14
3 West_Med 13.11
4 East_Med 8.75
5 West_Asian 4.22
6 Red_Sea 2.07
7 East_Asian 1.48
8 South_Asian 0.8
9 Amerindian 0.5
10 Oceanian 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 3.95
2 Austrian 4.68
3 Hungarian 4.73
4 Croatian 8.57
5 South_Polish 9.85
6 Moldavian 11.14
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.37
8 Serbian 11.92
9 West_German 12.02
10 Ukrainian 12.12
11 North_Swedish 12.24
12 North_German 12.62
13 Polish 12.95
14 South_Dutch 12.96
15 Swedish 13.71
16 Southwest_Finnish 13.99
17 Danish 14.98
18 North_Dutch 15.3
19 Norwegian 15.8
20 Southeast_English 16.17

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.4% French + 49.6% Belorussian @ 1.98
2 50.4% French + 49.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.32
3 50.2% Russian_Smolensk + 49.8% French @ 2.51
4 63% South_Polish + 37% French @ 2.63
5 56% Polish + 44% French @ 2.78
6 50.3% Southwest_Russian + 49.7% French @ 2.81
7 81.5% Austrian + 18.5% Belorussian @ 2.83
8 56.4% French + 43.6% Lithuanian @ 2.84
9 58.1% Belorussian + 41.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.86
10 81.7% Austrian + 18.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.88
11 60.5% Belorussian + 39.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.06
12 85.5% Austrian + 14.5% Lithuanian @ 3.08
13 50.5% French + 49.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.1
14 82% Austrian + 18% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.1
15 78.2% Austrian + 21.8% Polish @ 3.1
16 72.9% Austrian + 27.1% South_Polish @ 3.14
17 85.6% Austrian + 14.4% La_Brana-1 @ 3.15
18 77.2% Austrian + 22.8% Ukrainian @ 3.15
19 84.2% Austrian + 15.8% Estonian @ 3.16
20 59.7% East_German + 40.3% Hungarian @ 3.16

Kit RN8973201

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_European 46.24
2 Atlantic_Med 30.65
3 Caucasus 11.01
4 Gedrosia 5.69
5 Southwest_Asian 4.89
6 Southeast_Asian 0.63
7 Siberian 0.61
8 East_African 0.23
9 Northwest_African 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 German (Dodecad) 4.62
2 Hungarians (Behar) 6.53
3 Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 10.61
4 Dutch (Dodecad) 11.18
5 CEU30 (1000Genomes) 13.84
6 Swedish (Dodecad) 13.87
7 Kent (1000Genomes) 14.04
8 English (Dodecad) 14.04
9 Norwegian (Dodecad) 14.34
10 British_Isles (Dodecad) 14.76
11 French (Dodecad) 15.6
12 Argyll (1000Genomes) 15.89
13 Orkney (1000Genomes) 16.03
14 French (HGDP) 16.13
15 British (Dodecad) 16.42
16 Orcadian (HGDP) 16.47
17 Cornwall (1000Genomes) 16.54
18 Irish (Dodecad) 16.57
19 Polish (Dodecad) 18.9
20 Romanians (Behar) 19.16

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 25.4% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) @ 1.74
2 94.3% German (Dodecad) + 5.7% Yemen_Jews (Behar) @ 1.77
3 74.6% Swedish (Dodecad) + 25.4% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) @ 1.79
4 79.5% Swedish (Dodecad) + 20.5% Cypriots (Behar) @ 1.81
5 94.9% German (Dodecad) + 5.1% Saudis (Behar) @ 1.91
6 71.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 28.8% Greek (Dodecad) @ 1.92
7 93.8% German (Dodecad) + 6.2% Bedouin (HGDP) @ 2.13
8 93.8% German (Dodecad) + 6.2% Yemenese (Behar) @ 2.31
9 93.8% German (Dodecad) + 6.2% Egyptans (Behar) @ 2.55
10 74.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 25.7% S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.6
11 93.8% German (Dodecad) + 6.2% Palestinian (HGDP) @ 2.6
12 94.3% German (Dodecad) + 5.7% Samaritians (Behar) @ 2.61
13 59.8% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 40.2% Bulgarian (Dodecad) @ 2.65
14 74.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 25.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) @ 2.66
15 77% Swedish (Dodecad) + 23% Sephardic_Jews (Behar) @ 2.7
16 81.3% Swedish (Dodecad) + 18.7% Druze (HGDP) @ 2.73
17 57.4% Norwegian (Dodecad) + 42.6% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.73
18 93.8% German (Dodecad) + 6.2% Jordanians (Behar) @ 2.75
19 93.7% German (Dodecad) + 6.3% Syrians (Behar) @ 2.79
20 82.2% Swedish (Dodecad) + 17.8% Samaritians (Behar) @ 2.91

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:04 AM

Interesting to see a Hungarian from Ukraine

he has a Germanic haplogroup and Germanic admixture
20 59.7% East_German + 40.3% Hungarian @ 3.16

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:15 AM

he has a Germanic haplogroup and Germanic admixture
20 59.7% East_German + 40.3% Hungarian @ 3.16
The East German reference is almost half Slavic. Anyway, some of the samples are clearly off. A couple of "Moldavians" are straight up Ukrainian (45% Baltic), wtf?

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:17 AM

The East German reference is almost half Slavic. Anyway, some of the samples are clearly off. A couple of "Moldavians" are straight up Ukrainian (45% Baltic), wtf?

the average of those Moldavians is used in the k13/k15 oracles i believe.

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:23 AM

Kuban Cossacks (K13 is bullcrap for them)

Kit RG7101326

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 EAST_EURO 27.37
2 SOUTH_BALTIC 27.26
3 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 17.79
4 ATLANTIC 9.99
5 WEST_MED 7.06
6 SIBERIAN 3.24
7 WEST_ASIAN 3.22
8 EAST_MED 2.99
9 SOUTH_ASIAN 0.55
10 MIDDLE_EASTERN 0.53

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Ukrainian-Russian 4.72
2 East_Russian 5.81
3 West_Russian 5.94
4 North_Russian 7
5 UA 7.36
6 Belorussian 7.66
7 Northwest_Russian 8.44
8 PL 8.47
9 Erzya 9.23
10 East_Finnish 9.45
11 EE 10.16
12 South_Finnish 11.27
13 LIT 12.19
14 HU 16.06
15 Komi 17.57
16 Udmurt 17.69
17 North_Swedish 17.98
18 AT 19.58
19 Serbian 20.12
20 South_&_Central_Swedish 21.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 57.4% Ukrainian-Russian + 42.6% East_Russian @ 2.86
2 63.4% Ukrainian-Russian + 36.6% North_Russian @ 2.98
3 57.5% East_Russian + 42.5% UA @ 3.03
4 51.6% North_Russian + 48.4% UA @ 3.15
5 83.3% Ukrainian-Russian + 16.7% Komi @ 3.21
6 72.9% Ukrainian-Russian + 27.1% East_Finnish @ 3.4
7 95.6% Ukrainian-Russian + 4.4% Selkup @ 3.5
8 59.6% East_Russian + 40.4% Belorussian @ 3.57
9 85.3% Ukrainian-Russian + 14.7% Udmurt @ 3.66
10 74.6% Ukrainian-Russian + 25.4% Erzya @ 3.74
11 63.3% East_Russian + 36.7% PL @ 3.81
12 56.5% North_Russian + 43.5% PL @ 3.95
13 97.7% Ukrainian-Russian + 2.3% Nganassan @ 3.95
14 97.3% Ukrainian-Russian + 2.7% Chukchi @ 3.98
15 97.4% Ukrainian-Russian + 2.6% Koryak @ 3.99
16 57.4% UA + 42.6% Erzya @ 4.03
17 51% East_Russian + 49% West_Russian @ 4.04
18 73.6% UA + 26.4% Komi @ 4.07
19 64.4% East_Russian + 35.6% Northwest_Russian @ 4.16
20 82.9% Ukrainian-Russian + 17.1% South_Finnish @ 4.19

Kit QE4937656

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 SOUTH_BALTIC 30.39
2 EAST_EURO 22.31
3 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 21.24
4 ATLANTIC 11.2
5 WEST_MED 6.97
6 WEST_ASIAN 3.96
7 EAST_MED 1.61
8 MIDDLE_EASTERN 1.38
9 SIBERIAN 0.93

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 UA 4.85
2 Belorussian 5.18
3 PL 5.48
4 Ukrainian-Russian 5.63
5 West_Russian 5.93
6 EE 7.3
7 Northwest_Russian 7.52
8 LIT 8.95
9 East_Russian 11.26
10 South_Finnish 11.65
11 East_Finnish 12.15
12 North_Russian 12.4
13 Erzya 14.27
14 HU 14.92
15 North_Swedish 16.55
16 AT 18.16
17 South_&_Central_Swedish 19.15
18 Serbian 20.22
19 NO 20.49
20 West_&_Central_German 21.92

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 82.2% UA + 17.8% East_Finnish @ 4.18
2 70.8% UA + 29.2% EE @ 4.18
3 82.1% UA + 17.9% South_Finnish @ 4.24
4 87.3% Belorussian + 12.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 4.42
5 88.1% Belorussian + 11.9% NO @ 4.43
6 57.7% UA + 42.3% Belorussian @ 4.43
7 89.5% Belorussian + 10.5% NL @ 4.48
8 89.2% Belorussian + 10.8% West_&_Central_German @ 4.48
9 90.6% Belorussian + 9.4% English @ 4.5
10 89.7% Belorussian + 10.3% DK @ 4.52
11 86.3% Belorussian + 13.7% North_Swedish @ 4.53
12 90.5% UA + 9.5% North_Swedish @ 4.56
13 96% Belorussian + 4% Sardinian @ 4.56
14 92.1% Belorussian + 7.9% FR @ 4.57
15 93.8% Belorussian + 6.2% Tuscan @ 4.57
16 82.5% UA + 17.5% LIT @ 4.57
17 95.9% Belorussian + 4.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 4.59
18 93.2% Belorussian + 6.8% PT @ 4.59
19 88.2% Belorussian + 11.8% AT @ 4.62
20 85.9% Belorussian + 14.1% HU @ 4.63

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:24 AM

the average of those Moldavians is used in the k13/k15 oracles i believe.
No wonder why some oracles are notoriously inaccurate...

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:38 AM

The East German reference is almost half Slavic. Anyway, some of the samples are clearly off. A couple of "Moldavians" are straight up Ukrainian (45% Baltic), wtf?

all Hungarians are mostly Slavic+Germanic+Balkanic. this one could be half Hungarian half Transilvanian Saxon.

WeirdLookingFellow

09-23-2019, 11:26 AM

Here are some K15 coordinates as I found their results interesting at first:

451 272 HM1819885 Romanian South
478 261 NW7039713 Romanian South
504 302 YV6490417 Romanian South
475 270 KL5552400 montenegrin
460 263 XC1618641 montenegrin
469 260 TF8713125 montenegrin
436 251 CH6304003 montenegrin (very close to me, special due to higher than average Atlantic and at the upper limit of Baltic)
473 246 AV3303547 montenegrin (almost point blank on Serb average)

Some interesting K13s:

GE3813125 Romanian South (high South Asian)

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 25.73
2 North_Atlantic 21.68
3 West_Med 19.3
4 East_Med 15.88
5 West_Asian 11.18
6 South_Asian 4.08
7 Siberian 1.49
8 Red_Sea 0.58
9 Sub-Saharan 0.07
10 Amerindian 0.02

MN8580719 Romanian South:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 25.34
2 Baltic 23.94
3 West_Med 18.13
4 East_Med 14.94
5 West_Asian 11.82
6 South_Asian 1.59
7 Siberian 1.41
8 Oceanian 1.29
9 Amerindian 0.9
10 Red_Sea 0.48
11 Sub-Saharan 0.15

TT8822564 Romanian South

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 26.79
2 North_Atlantic 23.44
3 West_Med 17.78
4 East_Med 16.89
5 West_Asian 9.05
6 East_Asian 3.22
7 Red_Sea 1.93
8 Sub-Saharan 0.89

Some of my notes:

While some Montenegrins distinguish themselves as being rather similar to Serbs (27-30 Baltic, high Atlantic but under Baltic), some are indistinguishable from Romanians, apart from one aspect: very low to almost no incidence of East Asian + Amerindian + Oceanian. It seems that overall Romanians have a higher incidence of it. In some of these results, the ones from Gorj and even ones from Apuseni score between 2.5 to almost 5% total EA+A+O. I think that based on these samples, the Montenegrin average is somewhat at the same level as Romanians though to the left, like right underneath Serbs.

I've also found the Moldavians (maybe some nomenclature differentiation is necessary to distinguish RO Moldovans to MD Moldovans. Like Moldavians and Moldovans or ROMD and MD) with over 45% Baltic. Those two seem to be moreso just Southwest Russians/NorthEast Ukrainians. They also score significant EA+A+O (I think all of them at least 3% and even >5%).

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 11:32 AM

Jana

09-23-2019, 11:37 AM

Could you run Croats from Split ?

WeirdLookingFellow

09-23-2019, 11:37 AM

Yes, Romania South is Gorj. South-West, to be specific, at the border between Transylvania and Banat.

Leto

09-23-2019, 11:38 AM

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 11:41 AM

WeirdLookingFellow

09-23-2019, 11:43 AM

@Weird looking fella
The Oceanian shouldn't be lumped together with Siberian and East Asian, those people are not Mongoloid anatomically and it's obviously noise in the European context.
The Amerindian in Europeans is largely an ANE-related signal (proper East Asians like Han or Koreans barely get it).

I know Amerindian is quite old and East Asian is overall a better denominator. Did not know about Oceanian. I know what they are and that they don't look Mongoloid but it is present quite often and sometimes at over 1%. It is quite similar to some SSA admixture that we get, something I've noticed in the Moldavian samples. North-East African may be an indicator of Jewish ancestry I guess, but SSA is obviously old.

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 11:48 AM

I know Amerindian is quite old and East Asian is overall a better denominator. Did not known about Oceanian. I know what they are and that they don't look Mongoloid but it is present quite often and sometimes at over 1%. It is quite similar to some SSA admixture that we get, something I've noticed in the Moldavian samples. North-East African may be an indicator of Jewish ancestry I guess, but SSA is obviously old.

i've noticed Germans and West Slavs get Northeast African, and a lot of Italians and Balkanians don't have any.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 12:33 PM

lol at the Moldavian results.

https://sun9-8.userapi.com/c855416/v855416847/faea2/8PdjPuUApT8.jpg

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 12:54 PM

Could you run Croats from Split ?

https://i.imgur.com/TdOAEU2.png
Split samples in red

the outlier has matches mostly with Anglo and Russian names, maybe he's Jewish

his k13

Kit NK7287400

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.21
2 North_Atlantic 20.04
3 East_Med 19.05
4 West_Med 14.21
5 West_Asian 11.28
6 Red_Sea 2.02
7 East_Asian 1.49
8 Amerindian 0.95
9 Siberian 0.46
10 Oceanian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 6.74
2 Romanian 7.02
3 Serbian 7.74
4 Moldavian 9.12
5 Croatian 12.01
6 Hungarian 13.76
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.88
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.47
9 Austrian 17.98
10 Ukrainian 18.55
11 South_Polish 18.57
12 East_German 19.22
13 Southwest_Russian 20.57
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.7
15 Central_Greek 21.41
16 Tuscan 21.64
17 Italian_Abruzzo 21.68
18 Polish 21.81
19 North_Italian 22.14
20 Tatar 22.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.4% Ukrainian + 34.6% Cyprian @ 2.11
2 69.2% Ukrainian + 30.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.62
3 51% Southwest_Russian + 49% Central_Greek @ 2.76
4 50.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.1% Central_Greek @ 2.77
5 53% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47% Ashkenazi @ 2.88
6 61.7% Polish + 38.3% Cyprian @ 2.92
7 55.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 44.3% South_Italian @ 2.97
8 59.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.98
9 59.9% Estonian_Polish + 40.1% Cyprian @ 3.07
10 60.4% Russian_Smolensk + 39.6% Cyprian @ 3.08
11 68.6% Ukrainian + 31.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.08
12 52.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47.7% East_Sicilian @ 3.08
13 59.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.11
14 55.9% Southwest_Russian + 44.1% South_Italian @ 3.12
15 65.5% South_Polish + 34.5% Cyprian @ 3.16
16 63.1% Southwest_Russian + 36.9% Cyprian @ 3.18
17 67% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Cyprian @ 3.2
18 58.5% Greek_Thessaly + 41.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.22
19 52.5% Southwest_Russian + 47.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.25
20 68.8% Ukrainian + 31.2% Samaritan @ 3.2

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 12:55 PM

lol at the Moldavian results.

https://sun9-8.userapi.com/c855416/v855416847/faea2/8PdjPuUApT8.jpg

did you save their xy coordinates?

Zmey Gorynych

09-23-2019, 01:08 PM

lol at the Moldavian results.

https://sun9-8.userapi.com/c855416/v855416847/faea2/8PdjPuUApT8.jpg
The ones close to the moldavian average and probably 2 that are close to the Romanian average are moldovans, while the 2 close to Lviv and Belorussia and the one that pulls east are not.

Yeah these 3 - JA8090639, JR6490623, DN1116786. The 2 Js are east slavs scoring 45% baltic and one of them also 30% north-atlantic. The D seems to be a mix of east-slav with gypsy, he scores almost 40% baltic and almost 10% south-asian. He's most likely from the north where they have east-slavs and gypsies living in the same communities/cities.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 01:23 PM

did you save their xy coordinates?

No, later I will give them to you.

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 01:33 PM

The one close to the moldavian average and probably 2 that are close to the Romanian average are moldovans, while the 2 close to Lviv and Belorussia and the one that pulls east are not.

the Moldavian average was calculated from these exact samples, that's why they are close to it.
There are some Moldavians who are very different from this, like Weirdlookingfellow who is almost halfway between the Serbian and North Italian point.

check their one-to-many matches, maybe you can tell where they are from by surnames.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 01:34 PM

The one close to the moldavian average and probably 2 that are close to the Romanian average are moldovans, while the 2 close to Lviv and Belorussia and the one that pulls east are not.

That two who are close to Romanian average seems to have Gagauz or maybe Bulgarian ancestry. I am very sceptical when I see such results.

Example of Moldavian (or not) wich have visible Gagauz ancestry. Very similar results to these two.

Eurogenes K13:

Population
North_Atlantic 20.92 Pct
Baltic 28.56 Pct
West_Med 14.80 Pct
West_Asian 9.67 Pct
East_Med 22.16 Pct
Red_Sea 0.86 Pct
South_Asian 1.64 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.64 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.75 Pct

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 5.96
2 Romanian 6.65
3 Serbian 8.19
4 Moldavian 11.49
5 Greek_Thessaly 12.97
6 Croatian 14.04
7 Hungarian 14.84
8 Austrian 18.68
9 Tuscan 19.57
10 Central_Greek 19.7
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.81
12 Italian_Abruzzo 19.9
13 East_German 20.1
14 North_Italian 20.44
15 South_Polish 20.46
16 Ukrainian 20.72
17 East_Sicilian 20.83
18 Ashkenazi 20.96
19 West_Sicilian 21.12
20 Southwest_Russian 22.83

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 52.6% Ashkenazi + 47.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.4
2 52.2% Ashkenazi + 47.8% Southwest_Russian @ 3.47
3 55.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 44.7% Italian_Jewish @ 3.72
4 55.6% Southwest_Russian + 44.4% Italian_Jewish @ 3.75
5 50.3% Ukrainian + 49.7% Ashkenazi @ 3.78
6 59.6% Ashkenazi + 40.4% Lithuanian @ 3.83
7 54.8% Ashkenazi + 45.2% Russian_Smolensk @ 3.88
8 55.1% Ashkenazi + 44.9% Estonian_Polish @ 3.98
9 55.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 44.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 4
10 55.6% Southwest_Russian + 44.4% Algerian_Jewish @ 4.02
11 55.6% Ashkenazi + 44.4% Belorussian @ 4.09
12 62.2% South_Polish + 37.8% Cyprian @ 4.09
13 51.2% Southwest_Russian + 48.8% South_Italian @ 4.11
14 64.6% Greek_Thessaly + 35.4% Southwest_Russian @ 4.15
15 50.6% South_Polish + 49.4% Ashkenazi @ 4.21
16 62% Ukrainian + 38% Cyprian @ 4.22
17 74% Croatian + 26% Lebanese_Druze @ 4.26
18 65% Greek_Thessaly + 35% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 4.32
19 53.4% Ashkenazi + 46.6% Polish @ 4.35
20 53.8% Central_Greek + 46.2% Southwest_Russian @ 4.37

These are the surname of his four grandparents.

https://i.imgur.com/ZJTofpW.png

Seya

09-23-2019, 01:51 PM

Zmey Gorynych

09-23-2019, 02:02 PM

the Moldavian average was calculated from these exact samples, that's why they are close to it.
There are some Moldavians who are very different from this, like Weirdlookingfellow who is almost halfway between the Serbian and North Italian point.

check their one-to-many matches, maybe you can tell where they are from by surnames.
Weirdlookingfellow is from moldovan Romania, not the republic. I guess that moldovans (as in people from the old principality of Moldova = romanian moldovans and republic moldovans) without any recent foreign ancestry can range from romanian average to croatian average. I'd say that anything outside of that is foreign.

I'll check the rest as those 3 are clearly not moldovans.

That two who are close to Romanian average seems to have Gagauz or maybe Bulgarian ancestry. I am very sceptical when I see such results.
Could be. I noticed that one of them has 18% and the other 19% east med. I thought that maybe these are samples from the south (Cahul) - more vlach Moldovans. Ok so maybe CM2678489 and JR2297171 are not moldovans that leaves us with ZW2326107, CZ7344575, GG5842270, QY8192067 as the only moldovans. Four out of 9 - less than half.

ZW2326107
1 Baltic 31.8
2 North_Atlantic 23.34
3 West_Med 14.87
4 East_Med 13.08
5 West_Asian 9.75
6 Red_Sea 2
7 Siberian 1.5
8 Amerindian 1.15
9 South_Asian 1.14
10 East_Asian 0.69
11 Sub-Saharan 0.57
12 Oceanian 0.1

CZ7344575
1 Baltic 33.38
2 North_Atlantic 25.76
3 West_Med 14.65
4 East_Med 11.03
5 West_Asian 8.61
6 Red_Sea 1.75
7 Oceanian 1.62
8 East_Asian 1.16
9 Siberian 0.95
10 Sub-Saharan 0.69
11 South_Asian 0.4

GG5842270
1 Baltic 36.05
2 North_Atlantic 24.44
3 West_Med 15.39
4 West_Asian 10.94
5 East_Med 7.53
6 South_Asian 2.03
7 Siberian 1.21
8 Amerindian 1.19
9 Red_Sea 0.73
10 Oceanian 0.51

QY8192067
1 Baltic 31.37
2 North_Atlantic 23.19
3 West_Med 14.95
4 East_Med 13.16
5 West_Asian 9.85
6 Siberian 1.91
7 Red_Sea 1.89
8 South_Asian 1.2
9 Amerindian 1.16
10 Sub-Saharan 0.84
11 East_Asian 0.37
12 Oceanian 0.12

Mine - to make it 5
1 Baltic 33.94
2 North_Atlantic 22.18
3 West_Med 14.38
4 East_Med 13.86
5 West_Asian 9.99
6 Red_Sea 3.05
7 East_Asian 1.21
8 Amerindian 0.91
9 Oceanian 0.49

AVERAGE of the above
1 Baltic 33.30
2 North_Atlantic 23.78
3 West_Med 14.84
4 East_Med 11.73
5 West Asian 9.82
6 Red_Sea 1.88
7 Siberian 1.11
8 South_Asian 0.95
9 Amerindian 0.88
10 East_Asian 0.68
11 Oceanian 0.56
12 Sub-Saharan 0.42

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 02:42 PM

Mother (Zaporozhian Cossack Father)

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.95
2 North_Atlantic 24.29
3 East_Med 11.25
4 West_Med 10.66
5 Sub-Saharan 3.08
6 West_Asian 1.7
7 Siberian 1.67
8 Red_Sea 0.72
9 Northeast_African 0.6
10 Oceanian 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 7.64
2 Ukrainian 8.21
3 Estonian_Polish 8.47
4 Belorussian 9.04
5 Ukrainian_Belgorod 9.11
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.22
7 Russian_Smolensk 9.39
8 South_Polish 9.55
9 Polish 9.7
10 Kargopol_Russian 11.8
11 Croatian 11.88
12 Lithuanian 12.74
13 Erzya 12.89
14 Estonian 13.73
15 Moldavian 14.05
16 East_Finnish 14.99
17 Finnish 15.08
18 Hungarian 15.87
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.28
20 East_German 18.34

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 88.4% Estonian_Polish + 11.6% Tunisian @ 5.43
2 87.4% Belorussian + 12.6% Tunisian @ 5.56
3 81.2% Lithuanian + 18.8% Tunisian @ 5.63
4 80.4% Lithuanian + 19.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.67
5 88.7% Estonian_Polish + 11.3% Algerian @ 5.68
6 88.9% Estonian_Polish + 11.1% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.7
7 88.2% Estonian_Polish + 11.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.71
8 89.8% Estonian_Polish + 10.2% Egyptian @ 5.71
9 86.5% Estonian_Polish + 13.5% Ashkenazi @ 5.77
10 77.7% Lithuanian + 22.3% Ashkenazi @ 5.78
11 87.8% Belorussian + 12.2% Mozabite_Berber @ 5.8
12 87.7% Belorussian + 12.3% Algerian @ 5.83
13 89.2% Estonian_Polish + 10.8% Tunisian_Jewish @ 5.9
14 88.6% Estonian_Polish + 11.4% Italian_Jewish @ 5.91
15 89.2% Estonian_Polish + 10.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 5.92
16 87.3% Belorussian + 12.7% Algerian_Jewish @ 5.92
17 90.4% Estonian_Polish + 9.6% Samaritan @ 5.96
18 89.4% Estonian_Polish + 10.6% Moroccan @ 5.98
19 90.6% Estonian_Polish + 9.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 5.99
20 80.8% Lithuanian + 19.2% Italian_Jewish @ 6

Zaporozhian Cossack Academic Sample XN2475331

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 45.92
2 North_Atlantic 26.28
3 West_Med 9.62
4 East_Med 7.61
5 West_Asian 3.72
6 Siberian 2.72
7 South_Asian 2.32
8 Red_Sea 1.02
9 Amerindian 0.79

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 3.7
2 Estonian_Polish 4.53
3 Ukrainian 4.74
4 Russian_Smolensk 5.23
5 Belorussian 5.44
6 Ukrainian_Belgorod 5.62
7 Polish 5.91
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 5.94
9 South_Polish 6.44
10 Kargopol_Russian 7.64
11 Lithuanian 9.61
12 Erzya 9.84
13 Estonian 9.91
14 Croatian 10.94
15 East_Finnish 11.31
16 Finnish 11.33
17 Southwest_Finnish 12.71
18 Moldavian 13.53
19 Hungarian 14.65
20 East_German 16.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.2% Estonian_Polish + 8.8% Ashkenazi @ 2.03
2 92.5% Estonian_Polish + 7.5% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.15
3 92.5% Estonian_Polish + 7.5% Italian_Jewish @ 2.16
4 93% Estonian_Polish + 7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.23
5 92.6% Estonian_Polish + 7.4% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.23
6 93.7% Estonian_Polish + 6.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.24
7 93.2% Estonian_Polish + 6.8% Cyprian @ 2.25
8 93% Estonian_Polish + 7% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.26
9 93.9% Estonian_Polish + 6.1% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.27
10 93.8% Estonian_Polish + 6.2% Samaritan @ 2.28
11 89.5% Estonian_Polish + 10.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.3
12 92% Estonian_Polish + 8% South_Italian @ 2.33
13 91.5% Estonian_Polish + 8.5% East_Sicilian @ 2.35
14 91.3% Estonian_Polish + 8.7% Central_Greek @ 2.38
15 93.8% Estonian_Polish + 6.2% Palestinian @ 2.41
16 93.5% Estonian_Polish + 6.5% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.42
17 91.5% Estonian_Polish + 8.5% West_Sicilian @ 2.42
18 86.7% Estonian_Polish + 13.3% Bulgarian @ 2.47
19 93.6% Estonian_Polish + 6.4% Syrian @ 2.48
20 93.7% Estonian_Polish + 6.3% Jordanian @ 2.49

Zaporozhian Cossack Academic Sample ZU7033837 (This one looking like Kuban Cossack)

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.73
2 North_Atlantic 19.89
3 West_Asian 17
4 East_Med 14.19
5 West_Med 9.27
6 South_Asian 2.42
7 Amerindian 1.31
8 Red_Sea 1.14
9 Northeast_African 1.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 9.84
2 Croatian 12.16
3 Serbian 12.67
4 Romanian 13.16
5 Bulgarian 13.75
6 Hungarian 14.64
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 15.36
8 Ukrainian 16.62
9 South_Polish 16.66
10 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.78
11 Southwest_Russian 17.37
12 Austrian 19.03
13 Polish 19.35
14 Tatar 19.43
15 East_German 19.69
16 Russian_Smolensk 19.93
17 Estonian_Polish 20.86
18 Erzya 21.15
19 Kargopol_Russian 21.28
20 Belorussian 21.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 62.6% Lithuanian + 37.4% Armenian @ 2.12
2 71.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.4% Armenian @ 2.16
3 70.9% Southwest_Russian + 29.1% Armenian @ 2.56
4 68% Russian_Smolensk + 32% Armenian @ 2.65
5 67% Estonian_Polish + 33% Armenian @ 2.84
6 71.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.7% Georgian_Jewish @ 2.85
7 66.4% Belorussian + 33.6% Armenian @ 2.98
8 71.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 28.3% Assyrian @ 2.99
9 69.6% Southwest_Russian + 30.4% Kurdish @ 3.04
10 65.5% Estonian_Polish + 34.5% Kurdish @ 3.11
11 67.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 32.8% Turkish @ 3.17
12 70.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 29.6% Kurdish @ 3.24
13 70.6% Ukrainian + 29.4% Kurdish @ 3.29
14 66.6% Russian_Smolensk + 33.4% Kurdish @ 3.32
15 67.6% Russian_Smolensk + 32.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.32
16 68.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 31.8% Azeri @ 3.36
17 70.6% Southwest_Russian + 29.4% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.39
18 62.2% Lithuanian + 37.8% Georgian_Jewish @ 3.4
19 65% Belorussian + 35% Kurdish @ 3.45
20 67.3% Polish + 32.7% Kurdish @ 3.5

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 02:56 PM

Weirdlookingfellow is from moldovan Romania, not the republic. I guess that moldovans (as in people from the old principality of Moldova = romanian moldovans and republic moldovans) without any recent foreign ancestry can range from romanian average to croatian average. I'd say that anything outside of that is foreign.

so Weirdlookingfellow is foreign?
check out this Moldovan kit : T095264 it plots close to Weirdlookingfellow

Zmey Gorynych

09-23-2019, 03:05 PM

so Weirdlookingfellow is foreign?
check out this Moldovan kit : T095264 it plots close to Weirdlookingfellow
No, I wouldn't consider him foreign. If all his recent ancestors are from moldovan Romania then he is a moldovan in the historical and regional sense. He's simply not from the republic. From what I understand his result is a bit more northern and western than the Romanian average and I said that moldovans (from both countries) can range from the romanian average to the croatian average.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 03:30 PM

so Weirdlookingfellow is foreign?
check out this Moldovan kit : T095264 it plots close to Weirdlookingfellow

Do you even have any information about him, what he is full Moldavian and not mixed with something? Or if he is even Moldavian in general and not other ethnicity? He is southern af, basically Wallachian/Gagauz genetically, totally atypical for Moldavians, even for these from Romania.

Seya

09-23-2019, 03:36 PM

Do you even have any information about him, what he is full Moldavian and not mixed with something? Or if he is even Moldavian in general and not other ethnicity? He is southern af, basically Wallachian/Gagauz genetically, totally atypical for Moldavians, even for these from Romania.

Why? South moldovians in romania can plot as south as bulgaria. I have more than one example. Maybe the ones in Cahul would plot similar...at least some of them

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 03:42 PM

Do you even have any information about him, what he is full Moldavian and not mixed with something? Or if he is even Moldavian in general and not other ethnicity? He is southern af, basically Wallachian/Gagauz genetically, totally atypical for Moldavians, even for these from Romania.

Cumansky posted him, he probably found him in his matches list. so he is probably from somewhere near Ukraine if he is related to Cumansky. He isn't Gagauz like, Gagauzes plot in Thracia, east of Macedonian Greeks, and this guy plots on the western edge of the Balkans, towards Italy.(close to Weirdlookingfellow)

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 03:44 PM

Why? South moldovians in romania can plot as south as bulgaria. I have more than one example. Maybe the ones in Cahul would plot similar...at least some of them

Maybe people from urban like you who are hardcore mix of many ethnicities, people from rural area I don't think so, only if some of them really have ancestry from more southern parts. Exception I think is proprerly Carpathian region where people are realy quite Balkan genetically without any recent mixing.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 03:49 PM

Cumansky posted him, he probably found him in his matches list. so he is probably from somewhere near Ukraine if he is related to Cumansky. He isn't Gagauz like, Gagauzes plot in Thracia, east of Macedonian Greeks, and this guy plots on the western edge of the Balkans, towards Italy.(very close to Weirdlookingfellow)

Without knowing his ancestry I can't make any conclusion about him. Many love to speak about Ukrainians and Russians who setled here, but forgot about tons of Balkan people (Gagauz, Bulgarians, Greeks, even Albanians) who comed here in the past 200 years, and setled mostly in Southern parts of the country.

Seya

09-23-2019, 04:30 PM

Maybe people from urban are like you who are hardcore mix of many ethnicities, people from rural area I don't think so, only if some of them really have ancestry from more southern parts. Exception I think is proprerly Carpathian region where people are realy quite Balkan genetically without any recent mixing.

Maybe those kits are from urban areas too. Also most moldovians here from both the republic and romania have some known foreign ancestry at some point in time.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 04:49 PM

Maybe those kits are from urban areas too. Also most moldovians here from both the republic and romania have some known foreign ancestry at some point in time.

In RM historically this is valiable mostly to Northern and Soutern parts, the Central parts are quite homogenous till today. The urban population is not very representanitve because of many very recent mixes with foreign elements.

https://i.imgur.com/8qFO7cw.jpg
https://enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/72/Harta_etnica_a_Republicii_Moldova_la_nivel_de_comu ne.jpg

Jana

09-23-2019, 04:51 PM

https://i.imgur.com/TdOAEU2.png
Split samples in red

the outlier has matches mostly with Anglo and Russian names, maybe he's Jewish

his k13

Kit NK7287400

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 30.21
2 North_Atlantic 20.04
3 East_Med 19.05
4 West_Med 14.21
5 West_Asian 11.28
6 Red_Sea 2.02
7 East_Asian 1.49
8 Amerindian 0.95
9 Siberian 0.46
10 Oceanian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 6.74
2 Romanian 7.02
3 Serbian 7.74
4 Moldavian 9.12
5 Croatian 12.01
6 Hungarian 13.76
7 Greek_Thessaly 14.88
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 17.47
9 Austrian 17.98
10 Ukrainian 18.55
11 South_Polish 18.57
12 East_German 19.22
13 Southwest_Russian 20.57
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 20.7
15 Central_Greek 21.41
16 Tuscan 21.64
17 Italian_Abruzzo 21.68
18 Polish 21.81
19 North_Italian 22.14
20 Tatar 22.22

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.4% Ukrainian + 34.6% Cyprian @ 2.11
2 69.2% Ukrainian + 30.8% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.62
3 51% Southwest_Russian + 49% Central_Greek @ 2.76
4 50.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 49.1% Central_Greek @ 2.77
5 53% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47% Ashkenazi @ 2.88
6 61.7% Polish + 38.3% Cyprian @ 2.92
7 55.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 44.3% South_Italian @ 2.97
8 59.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.1% Italian_Jewish @ 2.98
9 59.9% Estonian_Polish + 40.1% Cyprian @ 3.07
10 60.4% Russian_Smolensk + 39.6% Cyprian @ 3.08
11 68.6% Ukrainian + 31.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.08
12 52.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47.7% East_Sicilian @ 3.08
13 59.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.11
14 55.9% Southwest_Russian + 44.1% South_Italian @ 3.12
15 65.5% South_Polish + 34.5% Cyprian @ 3.16
16 63.1% Southwest_Russian + 36.9% Cyprian @ 3.18
17 67% Ukrainian_Lviv + 33% Cyprian @ 3.2
18 58.5% Greek_Thessaly + 41.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 3.22
19 52.5% Southwest_Russian + 47.5% East_Sicilian @ 3.25
20 68.8% Ukrainian + 31.2% Samaritan @ 3.2

Thank you a lot. Wouldn't ask you to do all this work if I didn't delete my gedmatch account.
I encountered some southern shifted Croats on gedmatch (no idea if mixed or not), maybe he is mixed as you say or simply part of Croatian variation.

Seya

09-23-2019, 04:53 PM

In RM historically this is valiable mostly to Northern and Soutern parts, the Central parts are quite homogenous till today. The urban population is not very representanitve because of many very recent mixes with foreign elements.

https://i.imgur.com/8qFO7cw.jpg
https://enacademic.com/pictures/enwiki/72/Harta_etnica_a_Republicii_Moldova_la_nivel_de_comu ne.jpg

Do u live in an urban area?

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 04:57 PM

Do u live in an urban area?

Yes.

Insuperable

09-23-2019, 04:57 PM

Thank you a lot. Wouldn't ask you to do all this work if I didn't delete my gedmatch account.
I encountered some southern shifted Croats on gedmatch (no idea if mixed or not), maybe he is mixed as you say or simply part of Croatian variation.

Southern shifted Croats poke your eyes, but not the ones plotting NW of Austria. Though that person is obviously mixed.

Jana

09-23-2019, 04:59 PM

Southern shifted Croats poke your eyes, but not the ones plotting NW of Austria. Though that person is obviously mixed.

No, and don't troll. I just said he is probably part of variation. Learn to read. It is OP who sugested admixture and I said it doesn't need to be.

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 05:06 PM

orange-Croats
red-Romanians
green- Moldavians (from the Country and the Romanian region)

https://i.imgur.com/OIm3hAu.png

i also added this guy to the Moldavians
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzWeVfUgc8

Jana

09-23-2019, 05:08 PM

What is interesting about this Split samples is how western some of them are. Some are pulled towards Spain and North Italy, which can be remnant of extra Illyrian genetics.
That would make sense for natives of Dalmatian coastal town.

Insuperable

09-23-2019, 05:11 PM

No, and don't troll. I just said he is probably part of variation. Learn to read. It is OP who sugested admixture and I said it doesn't need to be.

Okay, no more trolling. That person is obviously mixed.

Dick

09-23-2019, 05:14 PM

Southern shifted Croats poke your eyes, but not the ones plotting NW of Austria. Though that person is obviously mixed.

I mailed my dads kit. I hope he plot with monteniggas

Jana

09-23-2019, 05:15 PM

Okay, no more trolling. That person is obviously mixed.

I am not sure, he has high East Med and interestingly East Asian but that can happen.
His other values are pretty usual. I don't see why wouldn't some southern Croats cluster with Romanians and Bulgarians, even if majority does not.

Insuperable

09-23-2019, 05:26 PM

I am not sure, he has high East Med and interestingly East Asian but that can happen.
His other values are pretty usual. I don't see why wouldn't some southern Croats cluster with Romanians and Bulgarians, even if majority does not.

He is mixed. These academic samples are pure shit anyway. Like that pure genetically Albanian person that is on every Croatian academic PCA plot. Anyway, in your coast there are mongrels (I met, but I don't know them half Mexicans, half Africans, half South East Asian persons) because your sailors couldn't keep it in their pants.

Jana

09-23-2019, 05:28 PM

He is mixed. These academic samples are pure shit anyway. Like that pure genetically Albanian person that is on every Croatian academic PCA plot. Anyway, in your coast there are mongrels (I met, but I don't know them half Mexicans, half Africans, half South East Asian persons) because your sailors couldn't keep it in their pants.

:cry2

WeirdLookingFellow

09-23-2019, 08:12 PM

orange-Croats
red-Romanians
green- Moldavians (from the Country and the Romanian region)

httAu.png

i also added this guy to the Moldavians
httpsfUgc8

Is the green guy between N Italians and Serbs me? Because this is what I get when I plot that Moldovan's kit you posted. Also @Aspirin I don't think he's south shifted as fuck, he is on the same level as Romanians, just slightly western shifted. He's not that uncommon. The other black dot just upwards of Romanians is my gf.

https://i.ibb.co/Y247HvT/K15V4.png

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 08:44 PM

Also @Aspirin I don't think he's south shifted as fuck, he is on the same level as Romanians, just slightly western shifted. He's not that uncommon. The other black dot just upwards of Romanians is my gf.

Moldavians don't plot so much Southern, only if they have recent Southern admixture. For Moldova he is really South shifted as fuck.

CommonSense

09-23-2019, 09:13 PM

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 09:20 PM

Moldavians don't plot so much Southern, only if they have recent Southern admixture. For Moldova he is really South shifted as fuck.

he is on the western end of Romanian cluster. just like Weirdlookingfellow. it doesn't make sense geographically but there they are.

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 09:27 PM

This person is Moldovan. Many years ago I msg him and he is senior person, both his parents escaped Moldova during WW2 and settled in New Mexico USA and then he was born shortly after:

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 26.54
2 Baltic 25
3 East_Med 17.93
4 West_Med 16.57
5 West_Asian 8.36
6 Red_Sea 2.02
7 Sub-Saharan 1.21
8 South_Asian 0.78
9 Amerindian 0.73
10 Siberian 0.6
11 Northeast_African 0.25

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 3.5
2 Serbian 3.59
3 Bulgarian 5.88
4 Moldavian 10.41
5 Hungarian 10.95
6 Croatian 12.46
7 Greek_Thessaly 12.99
8 Austrian 13.42
9 North_Italian 15.15
10 East_German 15.33
11 Tuscan 16.1
12 West_German 16.86
13 French 17.27
14 South_Dutch 18.42
15 Italian_Abruzzo 18.56
16 Portuguese 18.89
17 Ukrainian_Lviv 19.02
18 South_Polish 19.29
19 Spanish_Galicia 19.41
20 West_Sicilian 19.72

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.6% South_Polish + 49.4% West_Sicilian @ 1.67
2 54.4% Hungarian + 45.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.89
3 72.9% Hungarian + 27.1% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.92
4 59.8% Tuscan + 40.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.01
5 59.4% Tuscan + 40.6% Southwest_Russian @ 2.02
6 53.8% West_Sicilian + 46.2% Polish @ 2.1
7 60.2% West_Sicilian + 39.8% Estonian @ 2.11
8 87.3% Serbian + 12.7% West_Sicilian @ 2.19
9 91.1% Serbian + 8.9% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.2
10 91.2% Serbian + 8.8% Italian_Jewish @ 2.26
11 67.4% Greek_Thessaly + 32.6% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.26
12 88.8% Serbian + 11.2% Ashkenazi @ 2.28
13 85.3% Serbian + 14.7% Tuscan @ 2.31
14 92.7% Serbian + 7.3% Tunisian @ 2.31
15 91.5% Serbian + 8.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.37
16 82.6% Serbian + 17.4% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.38
17 89.8% Serbian + 10.2% South_Italian @ 2.38
18 67.4% Hungarian + 32.6% Ashkenazi @ 2.38
19 66.1% Hungarian + 33.9% East_Sicilian @ 2.39
20 92.4% Serbian + 7.6% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.4

Moje ime

09-23-2019, 09:30 PM

Why is the Croatian dot so high up if the majority of the samples are more southern?

Because they are different from Serbs. xD

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 09:30 PM

Jana

09-23-2019, 09:32 PM

Why is the Croatian dot so high up if the majority of the samples are more southern?

Samples from Split, not the Croatian average.

Jana

09-23-2019, 09:33 PM

Because they are different from Serbs. xD

How pathetic little Serb. Yes, we are. Why does it bothers you so much ?

Moje ime

09-23-2019, 09:36 PM

How pathetic little Serb. Yes, we are. Why does it bothers you so much ?

I don't fucking care. It's just funny to me.

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 09:36 PM

Why is the Croatian dot so high up if the majority of the samples are more southern?

the Croatian average was probably calculated from just these kits(red)

https://i.postimg.cc/9fC1Jy38/AAA.png

on my PCA those kits are included+ all that were posted in the "South Slavic & neighbours eurogenes results" thread (+ the new samples from Split)

Jana

09-23-2019, 09:37 PM

I don't fucking care. It's just funny to me.

What is funny to you, genetics ? My entire family gets Hungary as no.1 in gedmatch, and we are southern Croats with my mother being 1/8 Serb.
It is enough to look at you and see you are not same people with us, and genetics just confirmed that.

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 09:37 PM

This person is Moldovan.

What is his surname?

Moje ime

09-23-2019, 09:39 PM

What is funny to you, genetics ? My entire family gets Hungary as no.1 in gedmatch, and we are southern Croats with my mother being 1/8 Serb.
It is enough to look at you and see you are not same people with us, and genetics just confirmed that.

That map was funny. Even CommonSense asked what is wrong with it.

Then you are not Croats but Hungarians. I'm completely satisfied with my genetics results. I always get Serbia as no. 1

Jana

09-23-2019, 09:41 PM

That map was funny. Even CommonSense asked what is wrong with it.

Then you are not Croats but Hungarians. I'm completely satisfied with my genetics results. I always get Serbia as no. 1

Nope, we are not. There is nothing wrong with the map, all other professional genetic researches don't show Croats and Serbs as the same but different.
Balto-Slavic and West Balkan paper included.

CommonSense

09-23-2019, 09:41 PM

the Croatian average was probably calculated from just these kits(red)

https://i.postimg.cc/9fC1Jy38/AAA.png

on my PCA those kits are included+ all that were posted in the "South Slavic & neighbours eurogenes results" thread (+ the new samples from Split)

I see. Thank you, now it all makes sense.

oszkar07

09-23-2019, 09:41 PM

I ran this Hungarian sample {XG1410311Hungarian2.DG} ... and his Eurogenes K13 looking really similiar to mine ... suprising how high his N.Atlantic is ...maybe he has some Danube Swab ancestry ... I post his and my K13 to compare...

XG1410311 Hungarian2.DG

Kit XG1410311

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.65
2 Baltic 32.93
3 West_Med 11.65
4 West_Asian 6.47
5 East_Med 5.65
6 Sub-Saharan 1.49
7 Red_Sea 1.29
8 East_Asian 1.16
9 Siberian 0.7

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 3.9
2 Austrian 5.12
3 Hungarian 7.3
4 North_Swedish 9.16
5 North_German 9.4
6 Swedish 9.98
7 South_Polish 10.85
8 West_German 11.01
9 Croatian 11.41
10 South_Dutch 11.69
11 Danish 11.89
12 North_Dutch 12.16
13 Norwegian 12.3
14 Southwest_Finnish 12.62
15 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.86
16 Ukrainian 13.57
17 Polish 13.58
18 Moldavian 13.84
19 Orcadian 13.9
20 Southeast_English 13.95

Oszkar Kit

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.89
2 Baltic 31.02
3 West_Med 12.33
4 East_Med 8.97
5 West_Asian 4.72
6 Siberian 2.29
7 Red_Sea 1.7
8 Oceanian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 4.21
2 East_German 4.5
3 Hungarian 6.49
4 West_German 9.28
5 North_German 9.67
6 South_Dutch 10.05
7 North_Swedish 10.72
8 Swedish 11.21
9 Croatian 11.87
10 Danish 11.94
11 North_Dutch 12.25
12 South_Polish 12.64
13 Norwegian 12.91
14 Southeast_English 13.09
15 Serbian 13.31
16 Orcadian 13.64
17 Moldavian 13.89
18 French 14.28
19 Southwest_Finnish 14.28
20 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.49

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 09:47 PM

What is his surname?

Spicocchi, I thought he was Italian when I msg him but he said Moldovan. Maybe they change name at Ellis Island New York alot of Jews did

Moje ime

09-23-2019, 09:50 PM

Nope, we are not. There is nothing wrong with the map, all other professional genetic researches don't show Croats and Serbs as the same but different.
Balto-Slavic and West Balkan paper included.

I think you gonna like this.

https://i.imgur.com/sAdjT1C.jpg

Leto

09-23-2019, 09:52 PM

Serbs plot in Turkey, Croats plot in Denmark xD :cool:

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 09:53 PM

he is on the western end of Romanian cluster. just like Weirdlookingfellow. it doesn't make sense geographically but there they are.

Take these four samples too. They are from Romania Moldova.

M927872 - both parents from Vaslui county, rural area.

M272006 - both parents from Vaslui county, rural area.

M080231 - Botosani county father/Iasi county mother.

M827504 - Neamț county, both parents are from Tîrgu Neamț town.

How they plot in Eurogenes k15.

https://sun9-6.userapi.com/c850628/v850628079/1df6aa/x6Q8cpTAmT4.jpg

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 10:02 PM

Spicocchi

This surname is not Moldavian, not even Romanian.

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:02 PM

here are Serbs and Montenegrins(grey). all from the old thread. from the new kits i added just BH Serbs and couple Montenegrins.

https://i.imgur.com/8YSfhXM.png

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:05 PM

This surname is not Moldavian, not even Romanian.

He changed it, he is Jew

Jana

09-23-2019, 10:08 PM

I think you gonna like this.

https://i.imgur.com/sAdjT1C.jpg

Why do you exeggerate, and why are you mad about the fact Croats and Serbs don't cluster the same ? I don't understand this anger.
Maybe because it destroys idea we are Catholic Serbs ?

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:08 PM

Montenegrin

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.86
2 North_Atlantic 24.07
3 West_Med 19.44
4 East_Med 15.53
5 West_Asian 7.3
6 Red_Sea 2.98
7 Northeast_African 1.35
8 Amerindian 0.47

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 5.09
2 Romanian 6.27
3 Bulgarian 7.65
4 Moldavian 8.08
5 Croatian 10.01
6 Hungarian 11.04
7 Austrian 13.9
8 East_German 15.13
9 Greek_Thessaly 15.27
10 Ukrainian_Lviv 16.44
11 South_Polish 17.31
12 Ukrainian 17.58
13 North_Italian 17.76
14 West_German 19.12
15 Tuscan 19.15
16 French 19.65
17 South_Dutch 20.43
18 Polish 20.55
19 Portuguese 21.06
20 Southwest_Russian 21.08

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 76.7% Croatian + 23.3% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.24
2 70.4% Croatian + 29.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.42
3 56.4% Ukrainian + 43.6% West_Sicilian @ 3.44
4 61.3% Croatian + 38.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 3.47
5 77.1% Croatian + 22.9% Italian_Jewish @ 3.59
6 71.3% Croatian + 28.7% East_Sicilian @ 3.64
7 57.7% Greek_Thessaly + 42.3% Polish @ 3.7
8 73.9% Croatian + 26.1% South_Italian @ 3.72
9 58.2% Ukrainian_Lviv + 41.8% West_Sicilian @ 3.8
10 53.7% Greek_Thessaly + 46.3% Ukrainian @ 3.84
11 52.5% Polish + 47.5% West_Sicilian @ 3.85
12 55.6% West_Sicilian + 44.4% Lithuanian @ 3.86
13 50.5% West_Sicilian + 49.5% Estonian_Polish @ 3.89
14 70.6% Croatian + 29.4% Central_Greek @ 3.93
15 67.1% Croatian + 32.9% Tuscan @ 3.96
16 79.2% Croatian + 20.8% Libyan_Jewish @ 4
17 72.8% Croatian + 27.2% Ashkenazi @ 4.02
18 77.5% Croatian + 22.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 4.02
19 50.1% West_Sicilian + 49.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 4.02
20 52% Greek_Thessaly + 48% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 4.04

Seya

09-23-2019, 10:11 PM

He changed it, he is Jew

then he's not moldovian

Moje ime

09-23-2019, 10:13 PM

Why do you exeggerate, and why are you mad about the fact Croats and Serbs don't cluster the same ? I don't understand this anger.
Maybe because it destroys idea we are Catholic Serbs ?

It's funny because you repeat that fact million times although personally I don't believe Croats cluster with Hungarians, that map was made of few samples only, on any other map difference is not that big as there. Besides that Serbian cluster includes here Montenegrins as well.

I never said Croats are Catholic Serbs.

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:14 PM

then he's not moldovian

He is only half Jew, fits perfect Romania and Moldova

Seya

09-23-2019, 10:15 PM

He is only half Jew, fits perfect Romania and Moldova

not his results are weird but his name. that's not a romanian name. never heard it before

Jana

09-23-2019, 10:16 PM

It's funny because you repeat that fact million times although personally I don't believe Croats cluster with Hungarians, that map was made of few samples only, on any other map difference is not that big as there. Besides that Serbian cluster includes here Montenegrins as well.

I never said Croats are Catholic Serbs.

Croats cluster with Croats, not with Hungarians. We are more Slavic and Balkan and less Celto-Germanic than Hungarians.
But Croatian average is closer to Hungarians and Slovenians than to Serbs.

Because even southern Croats don't plot with Serbs on average. I don't need to mention majority of Croats are from wider Zagreb region and are even further from Serbs and other Balkanites.

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:20 PM

not his results are weird but his name. that's not a romanian name. never heard it before

Bruh look at your country cluster it goes from Belarus to Turkey lmao! This old guy is lying to me that his family escaped Moldova in a boat, he changed his name for new life he gets Romanian @ 3...

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:20 PM

Take these four samples too. They are from Romania Moldova.

M927872 - both parents from Vaslui county, rural area.

M272006 - both parents from Vaslui county, rural area.

M080231 - Botosani county father/Iasi county mother.

M827504 - Neamț county, both parents are from Tîrgu Neamț town.

How they plot in Eurogenes k15.

https://sun9-6.userapi.com/c850628/v850628079/1df6aa/x6Q8cpTAmT4.jpg

could you save coordinates and post them here when you plot? i have coordinates of all kits i plotted, i can post any of them if somebody's interested

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:24 PM

Romanian

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 25.77
2 Baltic 22.41
3 East_Med 16.77
4 West_Med 16.2
5 West_Asian 13.83
6 Red_Sea 2.71
7 East_Asian 1.58
8 Oceanian 0.36
9 Amerindian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Romanian 3.84
2 Bulgarian 5.44
3 Serbian 6.17
4 Greek_Thessaly 11.85
5 Moldavian 12.15
6 Hungarian 13.37
7 Croatian 14.83
8 North_Italian 15.18
9 Austrian 15.29
10 Tuscan 15.41
11 Italian_Abruzzo 16.2
12 East_German 17.51
13 Central_Greek 17.84
14 West_German 17.91
15 French 18.23
16 West_Sicilian 18.47
17 East_Sicilian 19.2
18 South_Dutch 19.53
19 Portuguese 19.84
20 Spanish_Galicia 20.43

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 87.6% Serbian + 12.4% Armenian @ 2.89
2 57.4% Italian_Abruzzo + 42.6% South_Polish @ 2.96
3 88.5% Serbian + 11.5% Georgian @ 2.99
4 84.6% Serbian + 15.4% Turkish @ 3
5 89.2% Serbian + 10.8% Abhkasian @ 3.04
6 94.2% Romanian + 5.8% Ossetian @ 3.07
7 93.7% Romanian + 6.3% Tabassaran @ 3.08
8 61.3% Italian_Abruzzo + 38.7% Polish @ 3.09
9 56.9% Italian_Abruzzo + 43.1% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 3.1
10 93.9% Romanian + 6.1% Chechen @ 3.14
11 94.1% Romanian + 5.9% Lezgin @ 3.16
12 52.3% Croatian + 47.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 3.18
13 94.6% Romanian + 5.4% North_Ossetian @ 3.22
14 94.3% Romanian + 5.7% Balkar @ 3.23
15 95.3% Romanian + 4.7% Georgian @ 3.24
16 94.3% Romanian + 5.7% Kabardin @ 3.25
17 87.7% Serbian + 12.3% Ossetian @ 3.25
18 58.5% Italian_Abruzzo + 41.5% Ukrainian @ 3.26
19 94.6% Romanian + 5.4% Adygei @ 3.26
20 87.8% Serbian + 12.2% Kurdish @ 3.26

Seya

09-23-2019, 10:28 PM

Bruh look at your country cluster it goes from Belarus to Turkey lmao! This old guy is lying to me that his family escaped Moldova in a boat, he changed his name for new life he gets Romanian @ 3...

? what belarus and what turkey dude? the red dots are romanians:
https://i.imgur.com/OIm3hAu.png

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:33 PM

? what belarus and what turkey dude? the red dots are romanians:
https://i.imgur.com/OIm3hAu.png

I was talking about Moldovans, you are same country or no? When is your advantage you say yes, when is at your disadvantage Romanians disown Moldova, damn they even disown themselves sometimes!

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:34 PM

Kit ZD4091876

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.74
2 North_Atlantic 28.62
3 West_Med 15.48
4 West_Asian 8.47
5 East_Med 7.77
6 Red_Sea 2.52
7 East_Asian 1.59
8 South_Asian 0.64
9 Oceanian 0.37
10 Sub-Saharan 0.28
11 Amerindian 0.25
12 Siberian 0.24

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 3.49
2 Moldavian 4.91
3 Hungarian 5.57
4 East_German 8.4
5 Austrian 8.52
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 8.54
7 Serbian 9.02
8 South_Polish 9.14
9 Ukrainian 10.03
10 Polish 12.44
11 Romanian 12.97
12 Southwest_Russian 14.28
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.36
14 Russian_Smolensk 15.08
15 Bulgarian 15.35
16 Estonian_Polish 15.83
17 West_German 16.33
18 Belorussian 16.41
19 Southwest_Finnish 17.29
20 South_Dutch 17.44

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 74.4% Ukrainian_Lviv + 25.6% North_Italian @ 2.36
2 93.7% Croatian + 6.3% French_Basque @ 2.37
3 65.3% Moldavian + 34.7% East_German @ 2.43
4 88.8% Croatian + 11.2% French @ 2.48
5 91.7% Croatian + 8.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.54
6 87.8% Croatian + 12.2% South_Dutch @ 2.54
7 91.6% Croatian + 8.4% Southwest_French @ 2.54
8 91% Croatian + 9% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.55
9 92.7% Croatian + 7.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.57
10 92.1% Croatian + 7.9% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.58
11 91.6% Croatian + 8.4% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.6
12 90.9% Croatian + 9.1% Southwest_English @ 2.61
13 91.4% Croatian + 8.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.61
14 91.9% Croatian + 8.1% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.62
15 87.5% Croatian + 12.5% West_German @ 2.63
16 78% Croatian + 22% Austrian @ 2.63
17 92.5% Croatian + 7.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.65
18 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.66
19 91.5% Croatian + 8.5% Portuguese @ 2.67
20 91.3% Croatian + 8.7% Irish @ 2.71

Kit SJ1127070

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.36
2 North_Atlantic 30.24
3 West_Med 14.45
4 East_Med 13.43
5 West_Asian 7.63
6 Red_Sea 2.1
7 East_Asian 0.32
8 Oceanian 0.29
9 Amerindian 0.11
10 Sub-Saharan 0.08

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.08
2 Serbian 5.33
3 Croatian 6.18
4 Moldavian 6.61
5 Austrian 7.69
6 East_German 8.89
7 Romanian 9.76
8 South_Polish 11.91
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 12.25
10 Bulgarian 12.35
11 Ukrainian 13.37
12 West_German 14.45
13 Polish 15.63
14 South_Dutch 15.89
15 Southwest_Russian 16.99
16 Ukrainian_Belgorod 17.33
17 French 17.33
18 North_German 17.52
19 Russian_Smolensk 18.21
20 North_Swedish 18.69

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 66.1% South_Polish + 33.9% Tuscan @ 1.78
2 58.3% Hungarian + 41.7% Serbian @ 2.06
3 79.6% Serbian + 20.4% Southwest_Finnish @ 2.1
4 59.8% Polish + 40.2% Tuscan @ 2.28
5 78.2% Hungarian + 21.8% Bulgarian @ 2.28
6 70.8% Serbian + 29.2% South_Polish @ 2.29
7 82.3% Serbian + 17.7% Estonian @ 2.36
8 76.4% Serbian + 23.6% Polish @ 2.38
9 74.4% Hungarian + 25.6% Romanian @ 2.46
10 55% Belorussian + 45% Tuscan @ 2.49
11 86.4% Hungarian + 13.6% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.52
12 70.1% South_Polish + 29.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.54
13 79.8% Serbian + 20.2% North_Swedish @ 2.56
14 90.4% Hungarian + 9.6% Ashkenazi @ 2.59
15 93.2% Hungarian + 6.8% Cyprian @ 2.62
16 92.2% Hungarian + 7.8% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.63
17 80.2% Serbian + 19.8% Belorussian @ 2.63
18 94% Hungarian + 6% Samaritan @ 2.64
19 64.7% Serbian + 35.3% East_German @ 2.64
20 82.6% Serbian + 17.4% Finnish @ 2.65

Kit ZS8957116

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 31.79
2 Baltic 29.54
3 West_Med 16.2
4 East_Med 11.58
5 West_Asian 6.6
6 Red_Sea 1.83
7 Amerindian 0.85
8 South_Asian 0.84
9 Siberian 0.49
10 Oceanian 0.18
11 Northeast_African 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.04
2 Austrian 5.81
3 Serbian 6.33
4 East_German 7.2
5 Croatian 7.55
6 Moldavian 8.06
7 Romanian 10.44
8 West_German 12.1
9 South_Polish 13
10 Bulgarian 13.29
11 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.38
12 South_Dutch 13.4
13 Ukrainian 14.5
14 French 14.66
15 North_German 15.84
16 Polish 16.57
17 North_Swedish 17.81
18 Swedish 18.23
19 Danish 18.3
20 Southeast_English 18.33

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 91.6% Hungarian + 8.4% Sardinian @ 0.91
2 59.6% South_Polish + 40.4% North_Italian @ 1.51
3 53.4% Serbian + 46.6% East_German @ 1.64
4 65.3% East_German + 34.7% Bulgarian @ 1.65
5 53.6% Polish + 46.4% North_Italian @ 1.67
6 59.6% East_German + 40.4% Romanian @ 1.76
7 66.5% Croatian + 33.5% French @ 1.78
8 84.1% Hungarian + 15.9% North_Italian @ 1.81
9 75% East_German + 25% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.89
10 73% Croatian + 27% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.91
11 74.9% Croatian + 25.1% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.96
12 51.5% North_Italian + 48.5% Belorussian @ 2.1
13 74.1% Croatian + 25.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.11
14 74.9% Croatian + 25.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.11
15 56.6% North_Italian + 43.4% Lithuanian @ 2.14
16 72.9% Croatian + 27.1% Portuguese @ 2.14
17 50.5% North_Italian + 49.5% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.15
18 81.5% East_German + 18.5% Ashkenazi @ 2.17
19 52.4% Austrian + 47.6% Serbian @ 2.19
20 86.2% Hungarian + 13.8% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.2

Kit YW7774737

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 32.12
2 North_Atlantic 27.15
3 West_Med 14.3
4 East_Med 11.78
5 West_Asian 10.2
6 Amerindian 1.43
7 South_Asian 0.86
8 Northeast_African 0.84
9 Red_Sea 0.72
10 Oceanian 0.46
11 Sub-Saharan 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.63
2 Croatian 4.67
3 Hungarian 5.71
4 Serbian 6.2
5 Romanian 9.57
6 Austrian 9.99
7 East_German 10.67
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.01
9 South_Polish 11.47
10 Bulgarian 11.84
11 Ukrainian 12.29
12 Polish 15.02
13 Southwest_Russian 15.69
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.78
15 West_German 16.83
16 Russian_Smolensk 17.32
17 Estonian_Polish 17.99
18 South_Dutch 18.4
19 Belorussian 18.52
20 North_German 19.55

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 61.4% Romanian + 38.6% Polish @ 2.12
2 69.3% Croatian + 30.7% Romanian @ 2.2
3 86.5% Croatian + 13.5% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.22
4 54.7% Romanian + 45.3% South_Polish @ 2.25
5 63.9% Polish + 36.1% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.44
6 58.9% Croatian + 41.1% Serbian @ 2.44
7 92.2% Croatian + 7.8% Armenian @ 2.46
8 88.9% Croatian + 11.1% South_Italian @ 2.48
9 74.5% Croatian + 25.5% Bulgarian @ 2.48
10 66.1% Moldavian + 33.9% Hungarian @ 2.5
11 90.7% Croatian + 9.3% Turkish @ 2.51
12 87.4% Croatian + 12.6% Central_Greek @ 2.51
13 86.4% Moldavian + 13.6% West_German @ 2.51
14 53.7% Romanian + 46.3% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 2.55
15 73.9% South_Polish + 26.1% South_Italian @ 2.58
16 50.8% South_Polish + 49.2% Bulgarian @ 2.59
17 56.6% Romanian + 43.4% Ukrainian @ 2.6
18 88.1% Croatian + 11.9% East_Sicilian @ 2.61
19 71% South_Polish + 29% Central_Greek @ 2.61
20 87.8% Croatian + 12.2% West_Sicilian @ 2.62

Kit BP4318140

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 37.22
2 North_Atlantic 30.11
3 West_Med 15.44
4 East_Med 9.26
5 West_Asian 4.33
6 Siberian 1.46
7 Red_Sea 1.29
8 South_Asian 0.48
9 Amerindian 0.4

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 4.46
2 Hungarian 6.48
3 South_Polish 6.79
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.18
5 Ukrainian 7.71
6 Moldavian 7.74
7 East_German 8.41
8 Austrian 9.48
9 Polish 9.99
10 Serbian 11.6
11 Southwest_Russian 12.11
12 Russian_Smolensk 12.78
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 12.93
14 Estonian_Polish 12.96
15 Belorussian 13.46
16 Southwest_Finnish 14.37
17 Romanian 15.72
18 Kargopol_Russian 15.81
19 North_Swedish 16.21
20 Estonian 16.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.3% Lithuanian + 40.7% North_Italian @ 1.62
2 66.9% Estonian_Polish + 33.1% North_Italian @ 1.66
3 66.1% Belorussian + 33.9% North_Italian @ 2.05
4 70.2% Southwest_Russian + 29.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.07
5 88% South_Polish + 12% Sardinian @ 2.12
6 79.2% Ukrainian + 20.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.24
7 72.4% Southwest_Russian + 27.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.24
8 77.9% Ukrainian + 22.1% Portuguese @ 2.28
9 70% Estonian_Polish + 30% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.29
10 70.2% Southwest_Russian + 29.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.31
11 79.4% Ukrainian + 20.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.31
12 71% Southwest_Russian + 29% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.32
13 69.6% Southwest_Russian + 30.4% Southwest_French @ 2.32
14 79.1% Ukrainian + 20.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.38
15 78.7% Ukrainian + 21.3% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.42
16 71.5% Southwest_Russian + 28.5% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.43
17 77.8% Ukrainian + 22.2% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.45
18 68.4% Southwest_Russian + 31.6% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.47
19 69.5% Southwest_Russian + 30.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.47
20 80.3% Ukrainian + 19.7% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.47

vbnetkhio

09-23-2019, 10:37 PM

? what belarus and what turkey dude? the red dots are romanians:
https://i.imgur.com/OIm3hAu.png

i think he's talking about Impaler, he plots with Balkan Turks. you can see him on the last plot i posted cause i zoomed out a bit.

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:40 PM

i think he's talking about Impaler, he plots with Balkan Turks. you can see him on the last plot i posted cause i zoomed out a bit.

I'm speaking in general there is people In Romania with close to Turkey

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:41 PM

Kit SJ7656272

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 34.9
2 North_Atlantic 25.54
3 West_Med 16.24
4 East_Med 12.77
5 West_Asian 8.53
6 Amerindian 0.98
7 Siberian 0.68
8 Oceanian 0.36

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Moldavian 3.64
2 Croatian 4.12
3 Serbian 7.78
4 Hungarian 7.79
5 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.12
6 Romanian 10.82
7 South_Polish 10.86
8 Ukrainian 10.97
9 Austrian 12.04
10 East_German 12.24
11 Bulgarian 12.53
12 Polish 14.24
13 Southwest_Russian 14.41
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod 14.77
15 Russian_Smolensk 16.24
16 Estonian_Polish 16.66
17 Belorussian 17.36
18 Kargopol_Russian 18.65
19 West_German 19.33
20 Southwest_Finnish 20.04

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 53.4% Ukrainian + 46.6% Bulgarian @ 2.06
2 66.5% Ukrainian + 33.5% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.39
3 50.4% Romanian + 49.6% Ukrainian @ 2.48
4 75.3% Ukrainian + 24.7% South_Italian @ 2.48
5 79% Croatian + 21% Bulgarian @ 2.52
6 72.6% Ukrainian + 27.4% Central_Greek @ 2.53
7 53.3% Bulgarian + 46.7% Polish @ 2.54
8 87.3% Croatian + 12.7% Greek_Thessaly @ 2.75
9 53.8% South_Polish + 46.2% Bulgarian @ 2.75
10 93.4% Croatian + 6.6% Cyprian @ 2.79
11 90.4% Croatian + 9.6% Central_Greek @ 2.81
12 73.2% Ukrainian + 26.8% West_Sicilian @ 2.82
13 91.1% Croatian + 8.9% Ashkenazi @ 2.83
14 77.7% Croatian + 22.3% Romanian @ 2.84
15 91.6% Croatian + 8.4% South_Italian @ 2.85
16 55.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 44.3% Bulgarian @ 2.85
17 63.8% Bulgarian + 36.2% Lithuanian @ 2.86
18 73.6% Ukrainian + 26.4% East_Sicilian @ 2.86
19 92.8% Croatian + 7.2% Algerian_Jewish @ 2.88
20 72.3% Ukrainian + 27.7% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.88

Kit SF5393037

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 40.41
2 North_Atlantic 29.61
3 West_Med 12.24
4 East_Med 9.39
5 West_Asian 7.24
6 Red_Sea 0.77
7 Oceanian 0.27
8 Siberian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 South_Polish 3.71
2 Ukrainian_Lviv 4.8
3 Croatian 5.09
4 Ukrainian 5.12
5 Polish 7.17
6 Hungarian 8.27
7 Southwest_Russian 8.56
8 Moldavian 8.58
9 Ukrainian_Belgorod 8.92
10 Russian_Smolensk 9.47
11 Estonian_Polish 10.07
12 Belorussian 10.32
13 East_German 10.57
14 Austrian 11.71
15 Southwest_Finnish 13.6
16 Serbian 13.6
17 Kargopol_Russian 13.7
18 Estonian 14.28
19 Lithuanian 14.86
20 Finnish 15.1

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 85.9% South_Polish + 14.1% Bulgarian @ 1.87
2 94% South_Polish + 6% Cyprian @ 1.9
3 93.3% South_Polish + 6.7% Italian_Jewish @ 1.93
4 92.2% South_Polish + 7.8% Ashkenazi @ 1.93
5 91.8% South_Polish + 8.2% Central_Greek @ 1.94
6 90% South_Polish + 10% Greek_Thessaly @ 1.95
7 94.7% South_Polish + 5.3% Lebanese_Christian @ 1.96
8 93.4% South_Polish + 6.6% Algerian_Jewish @ 1.98
9 94.6% South_Polish + 5.4% Samaritan @ 1.98
10 92.1% South_Polish + 7.9% East_Sicilian @ 1.99
11 92.7% South_Polish + 7.3% South_Italian @ 1.99
12 94.6% South_Polish + 5.4% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.02
13 93.9% South_Polish + 6.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 2.02
14 93.5% South_Polish + 6.5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 2.02
15 84.9% South_Polish + 15.1% Romanian @ 2.03
16 94% South_Polish + 6% Libyan_Jewish @ 2.07
17 81.4% South_Polish + 18.6% Serbian @ 2.09
18 91.8% South_Polish + 8.2% Italian_Abruzzo @ 2.11
19 92.1% South_Polish + 7.9% West_Sicilian @ 2.12
20 94.4% South_Polish + 5.6% Lebanese_Muslim @ 2.16

Kit TX3283788

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.27
2 North_Atlantic 30.95
3 West_Med 15.92
4 East_Med 9.21
5 West_Asian 5.73
6 South_Asian 2.65
7 Red_Sea 1.79
8 Oceanian 0.38
9 Siberian 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 4.5
2 Croatian 5.04
3 East_German 6.41
4 Austrian 6.74
5 Moldavian 7.11
6 Serbian 9.18
7 South_Polish 9.56
8 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.87
9 Ukrainian 10.95
10 Polish 12.95
11 Romanian 13.36
12 West_German 14.5
13 Southwest_Russian 15.35
14 South_Dutch 15.54
15 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.79
16 Russian_Smolensk 15.89
17 Bulgarian 15.94
18 Estonian_Polish 16.36
19 North_Swedish 16.47
20 North_German 16.51

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.9% Polish + 36.1% North_Italian @ 1.85
2 51.9% Lithuanian + 48.1% North_Italian @ 2.03
3 61.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 38.6% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.16
4 58.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 41.1% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.22
5 59.1% Russian_Smolensk + 40.9% North_Italian @ 2.24
6 72.1% Ukrainian_Lviv + 27.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.26
7 71% South_Polish + 29% North_Italian @ 2.27
8 61.1% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 38.9% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.44
9 62.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.45
10 59.6% Southwest_Russian + 40.4% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.45
11 70.6% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.46
12 59.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.7% Portuguese @ 2.47
13 63% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 37% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.48
14 69.7% Ukrainian + 30.3% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.49
15 80% Croatian + 20% French @ 2.49
16 61.8% Southwest_Russian + 38.2% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.51
17 62.8% Russian_Smolensk + 37.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.53
18 62.1% Southwest_Russian + 37.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.54
19 70.4% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.6% Portuguese @ 2.54
20 63.7% Southwest_Russian + 36.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.55

Kit FH7895994

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 37.07
2 Baltic 28.49
3 West_Med 16.38
4 East_Med 10.53
5 West_Asian 5.44
6 Amerindian 0.82
7 Siberian 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.53
9 Oceanian 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 3.57
2 East_German 5.34
3 Hungarian 6.25
4 West_German 8.03
5 South_Dutch 9.14
6 Serbian 10.54
7 Croatian 11.34
8 French 11.49
9 North_German 11.88
10 Moldavian 12.63
11 Southeast_English 13.64
12 Danish 14.02
13 North_Dutch 14.2
14 Romanian 14.25
15 Swedish 14.44
16 South_Polish 14.63
17 Orcadian 15.01
18 North_Swedish 15.21
19 Norwegian 15.49
20 Southwest_English 15.73

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 83.9% Hungarian + 16.1% French_Basque @ 2.16
2 80% East_German + 20% North_Italian @ 2.32
3 88.2% Austrian + 11.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.41
4 94.3% Austrian + 5.7% Sardinian @ 2.44
5 83.2% East_German + 16.8% Tuscan @ 2.46
6 65% French + 35% Southwest_Russian @ 2.46
7 56.2% French + 43.8% South_Polish @ 2.47
8 59.5% French + 40.5% Ukrainian @ 2.47
9 88.4% Austrian + 11.6% North_Italian @ 2.51
10 77% Hungarian + 23% Southwest_French @ 2.53
11 88.8% Austrian + 11.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.54
12 87.8% Austrian + 12.2% Portuguese @ 2.57
13 87.6% Austrian + 12.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.58
14 54.7% South_Polish + 45.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.59
15 89.8% Austrian + 10.2% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.6
16 88.5% Austrian + 11.5% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.63
17 90.5% Austrian + 9.5% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.67
18 89.3% Austrian + 10.7% Spanish_Extremadura @ 2.67
19 89.7% Austrian + 10.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.67
20 89.1% Austrian + 10.9% Southwest_French @ 2.69

Kit PQ7519412

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 29.26
2 Baltic 29.14
3 West_Med 17.21
4 East_Med 12.14
5 West_Asian 7.55
6 South_Asian 1.24
7 Red_Sea 1.13
8 Siberian 1.12
9 Amerindian 0.67
10 East_Asian 0.45
11 Sub-Saharan 0.09

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Serbian 4.71
2 Hungarian 5.66
3 Moldavian 6.63
4 Croatian 7.33
5 Austrian 8.17
6 Romanian 8.49
7 East_German 9.42
8 Bulgarian 11.22
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 13.7
10 South_Polish 13.78
11 West_German 14.02
12 Ukrainian 14.83
13 South_Dutch 15.33
14 French 15.98
15 Polish 17.45
16 North_German 18.15
17 North_Italian 18.48
18 Southwest_Russian 18.91
19 Greek_Thessaly 19.11
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 19.29

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.1% North_Italian + 48.9% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.24
2 50.6% North_Italian + 49.4% Southwest_Russian @ 1.34
3 55.5% Ukrainian + 44.5% North_Italian @ 1.49
4 72% Croatian + 28% North_Italian @ 1.52
5 57.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 42.5% North_Italian @ 1.63
6 76.1% Moldavian + 23.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.78
7 77.6% Moldavian + 22.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.86
8 52.2% North_Italian + 47.8% Russian_Smolensk @ 1.92
9 60.8% South_Polish + 39.2% Tuscan @ 2.02
10 80.3% Moldavian + 19.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.03
11 57.4% South_Polish + 42.6% North_Italian @ 2.04
12 77.8% Moldavian + 22.2% Spanish_Murcia @ 2.06
13 77.1% Moldavian + 22.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.07
14 54.6% East_German + 45.4% Bulgarian @ 2.12
15 76.9% Croatian + 23.1% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.14
16 71.7% Moldavian + 28.3% French @ 2.18
17 78.7% Moldavian + 21.3% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.2
18 59% Ukrainian + 41% Tuscan @ 2.23
19 88.9% Hungarian + 11.1% Sardinian @ 2.24
20 76% Moldavian + 24% Portuguese @ 2.25

Seya

09-23-2019, 10:43 PM

I was talking about Moldovans, you are same country or no? When is your advantage you say yes, when is at your disadvantage Romanians disown Moldova, damn they even disown themselves sometimes!

that green dot up north is obviously some ukrainain ethnic from moldova. no moldovian plot this north

Cumansky

09-23-2019, 10:55 PM

Bulgarian

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 28.5
2 North_Atlantic 20.41
3 East_Med 18.18
4 West_Med 17.18
5 West_Asian 11.56
6 Red_Sea 2.37
7 South_Asian 0.82
8 Siberian 0.48
9 Amerindian 0.44
10 Sub-Saharan 0.06

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Bulgarian 4.61
2 Romanian 4.98
3 Serbian 6.75
4 Moldavian 9.22
5 Croatian 12.35
6 Greek_Thessaly 12.95
7 Hungarian 13.89
8 Austrian 17.49
9 Ukrainian_Lviv 18.34
10 East_German 18.87
11 Tuscan 19.44
12 South_Polish 19.5
13 Ukrainian 19.56
14 North_Italian 19.72
15 Central_Greek 19.75
16 Italian_Abruzzo 19.94
17 East_Sicilian 21.05
18 West_Sicilian 21.4
19 Southwest_Russian 22.12
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 22.27

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 63.4% Greek_Thessaly + 36.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.96
2 86.7% Bulgarian + 13.3% Erzya @ 2.1
3 73.6% Croatian + 26.4% Cyprian @ 2.16
4 60.3% Central_Greek + 39.7% Lithuanian @ 2.21
5 52.9% Central_Greek + 47.1% Southwest_Russian @ 2.27
6 63.3% Greek_Thessaly + 36.7% Southwest_Russian @ 2.28
7 84.7% Bulgarian + 15.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.31
8 84.7% Bulgarian + 15.3% Southwest_Russian @ 2.33
9 53% Central_Greek + 47% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 2.38
10 79.2% Moldavian + 20.8% Cyprian @ 2.42
11 88.4% Bulgarian + 11.6% Lithuanian @ 2.42
12 55.7% Central_Greek + 44.3% Estonian_Polish @ 2.44
13 86.9% Bulgarian + 13.1% Kargopol_Russian @ 2.45
14 86.1% Bulgarian + 13.9% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.46
15 55.3% Central_Greek + 44.7% Russian_Smolensk @ 2.46
16 86.4% Bulgarian + 13.6% Estonian_Polish @ 2.46
17 63.6% Ukrainian + 36.4% Cyprian @ 2.48
18 52.2% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47.8% South_Italian @ 2.5
19 50.3% Ukrainian + 49.7% Central_Greek @ 2.51
20 52.3% Southwest_Russian + 47.7% South_Italian @ 2.6

Aspirin

09-23-2019, 10:57 PM

could you save coordinates and post them here when you plot? i have coordinates of all kits i plotted, i can post any of them if somebody's interested

M927872 - (x-axis): 503 pixel, (y-axis): 234 pixel
M272006 - (x-axis): 491 pixel, (y-axis): 240 pixel
M080231- (x-axis): 510 pixel, (y-axis): 217 pixel
M827504 - (x-axis): 588 pixel, (y-axis): 271 pixel

Leto

09-23-2019, 10:57 PM

Kit RT7548330

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 36.56
2 Baltic 34.42
3 West_Med 14.47
4 East_Med 8.42
5 West_Asian 3.46
6 Oceanian 1.25
7 Red_Sea 0.85
8 Amerindian 0.37
9 Siberian 0.15

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 4.09
2 Austrian 5.5
3 Hungarian 6.24
4 Croatian 9.29
5 South_Polish 9.76
6 Ukrainian_Lviv 11.55
7 North_Swedish 11.83
8 Ukrainian 12.03
9 Moldavian 12.17
10 West_German 12.46
11 Polish 12.64
12 North_German 12.79
13 South_Dutch 13.28
14 Serbian 13.28
15 Southwest_Finnish 13.36
16 Swedish 13.39
17 Danish 14.94
18 North_Dutch 15.16
19 Norwegian 15.57
20 Southeast_English 15.97

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 50.8% Belorussian + 49.2% French @ 2.63
2 58.7% Belorussian + 41.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.69
3 63.4% Belorussian + 36.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.84
4 55.2% French + 44.8% Lithuanian @ 2.85
5 52.8% Lithuanian + 47.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.91
6 50.7% Estonian_Polish + 49.3% French @ 2.92
7 61% Belorussian + 39% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.13
8 57.5% Polish + 42.5% French @ 3.14
9 56.3% Estonian + 43.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.27
10 59.8% Belorussian + 40.2% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.29
11 55.1% Lithuanian + 44.9% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.3
12 58.5% Estonian + 41.5% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.3
13 65.1% Polish + 34.9% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.3
14 60.7% Belorussian + 39.3% Spanish_Cantabria @ 3.32
15 62% Belorussian + 38% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 3.35
16 51.2% Russian_Smolensk + 48.8% French @ 3.36
17 64.3% South_Polish + 35.7% French @ 3.38
18 55.5% Lithuanian + 44.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.45
19 61.4% Belorussian + 38.6% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.47
20 88.1% East_German + 11.9% Belorussian @ 3.47

Kit LJ2497366

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 35.1
2 North_Atlantic 27.62
3 West_Med 14.93
4 East_Med 9.57
5 West_Asian 7.52
6 South_Asian 1.97
7 Red_Sea 1.28
8 Amerindian 1.15
9 East_Asian 0.63
10 Oceanian 0.21

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 1.61
2 Moldavian 4.11
3 Hungarian 5.77
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.73
5 South_Polish 8.35
6 Ukrainian 8.92
7 Serbian 9.13
8 East_German 9.38
9 Austrian 9.75
10 Polish 11.7
11 Romanian 12.89
12 Southwest_Russian 12.98
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.25
14 Russian_Smolensk 14.14
15 Estonian_Polish 14.7
16 Bulgarian 15.1
17 Belorussian 15.36
18 Kargopol_Russian 16.97
19 Southwest_Finnish 17.21
20 West_German 17.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 96.3% Croatian + 3.7% Spanish_Valencia @ 1.22
2 96.2% Croatian + 3.8% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.23
3 96.1% Croatian + 3.9% Spanish_Galicia @ 1.23
4 96.8% Croatian + 3.2% Spanish_Aragon @ 1.24
5 96.5% Croatian + 3.5% Spanish_Murcia @ 1.25
6 96.6% Croatian + 3.4% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.25
7 96.5% Croatian + 3.5% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.25
8 96.4% Croatian + 3.6% Southwest_French @ 1.25
9 96.4% Croatian + 3.6% Spanish_Extremadura @ 1.25
10 96.7% Croatian + 3.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1.25
11 96.2% Croatian + 3.8% Portuguese @ 1.26
12 96.4% Croatian + 3.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 1.26
13 95.4% Croatian + 4.6% French @ 1.27
14 98.7% Croatian + 1.3% Austroasiatic_Ho @ 1.27
15 97.6% Croatian + 2.4% French_Basque @ 1.28
16 96.2% Croatian + 3.8% North_Italian @ 1.29
17 98.8% Croatian + 1.2% Chenchu @ 1.32
18 98.8% Croatian + 1.2% Chamar @ 1.33
19 98.9% Croatian + 1.1% Sakilli @ 1.33
20 98.8% Croatian + 1.2% Kol @ 1.34

Kit MV8899827

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 36.35
2 North_Atlantic 28.75
3 West_Med 16.15
4 East_Med 9.53
5 West_Asian 6.12
6 Red_Sea 1.95
7 Siberian 0.81
8 East_Asian 0.2
9 Sub-Saharan 0.1

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Croatian 2.97
2 Moldavian 5.94
3 Hungarian 6.35
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 7.52
5 South_Polish 7.77
6 Ukrainian 8.47
7 East_German 9.02
8 Austrian 9.59
9 Serbian 10.08
10 Polish 11.04
11 Southwest_Russian 12.78
12 Ukrainian_Belgorod 13.31
13 Russian_Smolensk 13.64
14 Estonian_Polish 14.04
15 Romanian 14.1
16 Belorussian 14.63
17 Southwest_Finnish 16.25
18 Bulgarian 16.29
19 Kargopol_Russian 16.76
20 West_German 17.7

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 64.9% Russian_Smolensk + 35.1% North_Italian @ 1.92
2 75.1% Ukrainian + 24.9% North_Italian @ 1.93
3 64.2% Estonian_Polish + 35.8% North_Italian @ 2.02
4 86.1% South_Polish + 13.9% Sardinian @ 2.09
5 56.9% Lithuanian + 43.1% North_Italian @ 2.1
6 77.3% Ukrainian + 22.7% Tuscan @ 2.34
7 72% Polish + 28% Tuscan @ 2.42
8 77.7% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.3% North_Italian @ 2.42
9 94.5% Croatian + 5.5% Southwest_French @ 2.53
10 96.2% Croatian + 3.8% French_Basque @ 2.54
11 95.2% Croatian + 4.8% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.62
12 95.7% Croatian + 4.3% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.64
13 86.5% Croatian + 13.5% East_German @ 2.65
14 63.3% Belorussian + 36.7% North_Italian @ 2.66
15 59.5% Lithuanian + 40.5% Tuscan @ 2.66
16 95.4% Croatian + 4.6% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 2.68
17 95.2% Croatian + 4.8% Spanish_Galicia @ 2.69
18 95.6% Croatian + 4.4% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.69
19 95.8% Croatian + 4.2% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.69
20 95.4% Croatian + 4.6% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.69

Kit NN2483207

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 33.32
2 Baltic 33.2
3 West_Med 14.03
4 East_Med 8.2
5 West_Asian 7.37
6 Red_Sea 1.34
7 South_Asian 0.96
8 East_Asian 0.83
9 Oceanian 0.45
10 Siberian 0.3

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Hungarian 3.04
2 East_German 4.26
3 Austrian 4.61
4 Croatian 6.13
5 Moldavian 8.4
6 South_Polish 8.86
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 9.88
8 Serbian 10.19
9 Ukrainian 10.94
10 Polish 12.43
11 West_German 12.87
12 North_German 13.97
13 South_Dutch 13.98
14 North_Swedish 14
15 Romanian 14.53
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.02
17 Southwest_Russian 15.19
18 Swedish 15.36
19 Ukrainian_Belgorod 15.42
20 Russian_Smolensk 15.57

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 73.7% Croatian + 26.3% North_Dutch @ 1.23
2 77.1% Croatian + 22.9% West_Scottish @ 1.25
3 75.3% Croatian + 24.7% Orcadian @ 1.25
4 52.6% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 47.4% French @ 1.26
5 74.7% Croatian + 25.3% Southeast_English @ 1.27
6 73.4% Croatian + 26.6% Danish @ 1.29
7 76.6% Croatian + 23.4% Southwest_English @ 1.29
8 57.5% Austrian + 42.5% Croatian @ 1.33
9 76.3% Croatian + 23.7% Irish @ 1.34
10 70% Croatian + 30% North_German @ 1.38
11 67.3% East_German + 32.7% Moldavian @ 1.4
12 69.1% Austrian + 30.9% Ukrainian_Lviv @ 1.44
13 59.8% East_German + 40.2% Croatian @ 1.45
14 71.4% Austrian + 28.6% Ukrainian @ 1.59
15 74.7% Croatian + 25.3% Norwegian @ 1.69
16 78.3% Austrian + 21.7% Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 1.8
17 78.1% Austrian + 21.9% Southwest_Russian @ 1.82
18 60.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.7% Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.91
19 70.5% Croatian + 29.5% South_Dutch @ 1.95
20 66.3% South_Polish + 33.7% French @ 1.98

Kit XU8215762

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 33.49
2 North_Atlantic 32.73
3 West_Med 16.99
4 West_Asian 6.24
5 East_Med 5.8
6 Siberian 1.85
7 Red_Sea 1.27
8 Northeast_African 0.85
9 Sub-Saharan 0.42
10 East_Asian 0.24
11 Amerindian 0.12

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 East_German 5.28
2 Hungarian 5.97
3 Austrian 6.3
4 Croatian 7.04
5 Moldavian 9.17
6 South_Polish 9.61
7 Ukrainian_Lviv 10.1
8 Ukrainian 11.06
9 Serbian 11.67
10 Polish 12.65
11 West_German 13.83
12 South_Dutch 14.53
13 North_Swedish 14.61
14 Southwest_Finnish 15.05
15 North_German 15.17
16 Romanian 15.72
17 Southwest_Russian 15.75
18 Russian_Smolensk 15.95
19 Swedish 16.12
20 Ukrainian_Belgorod 16.19

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 59.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 40.6% Southwest_French @ 1.94
2 77.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 22.1% French_Basque @ 2.17
3 70.5% Ukrainian_Lviv + 29.5% Southwest_French @ 2.23
4 60.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 39.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.32
5 60.1% Southwest_Russian + 39.9% Southwest_French @ 2.37
6 71.3% Ukrainian_Lviv + 28.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.4
7 69.3% Ukrainian + 30.7% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.42
8 71.7% South_Polish + 28.3% Southwest_French @ 2.47
9 73.9% Ukrainian_Lviv + 26.1% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.48
10 68.1% Polish + 31.9% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.49
11 72.4% South_Polish + 27.6% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.52
12 69.1% Southwest_Russian + 30.9% French_Basque @ 2.53
13 72% Ukrainian + 28% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.56
14 68.6% Ukrainian + 31.4% Southwest_French @ 2.56
15 70.4% Ukrainian + 29.6% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.57
16 68.5% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 31.5% French_Basque @ 2.57
17 61% Southwest_Russian + 39% Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.58
18 62.7% Russian_Smolensk + 37.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.63
19 63.4% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 36.6% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.67
20 62% Russian_Smolensk + 38% Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.68

oszkar07

09-24-2019, 08:30 AM

Kit FH7895994 / Slovenian

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 37.07
2 Baltic 28.49
3 West_Med 16.38
4 East_Med 10.53
5 West_Asian 5.44
6 Amerindian 0.82
7 Siberian 0.57
8 Red_Sea 0.53
9 Oceanian 0.17

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 3.57
2 East_German 5.34
3 Hungarian 6.25
4 West_German 8.03
5 South_Dutch 9.14
6 Serbian 10.54
7 Croatian 11.34
8 French 11.49
9 North_German 11.88
10 Moldavian 12.63
11 Southeast_English 13.64
12 Danish 14.02
13 North_Dutch 14.2
14 Romanian 14.25
15 Swedish 14.44
16 South_Polish 14.63
17 Orcadian 15.01
18 North_Swedish 15.21
19 Norwegian 15.49
20 Southwest_English 15.73

My K13 could pass as full Slovenian based on comparison to above Slovenian kit.

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 38.89
2 Baltic 31.02
3 West_Med 12.33
4 East_Med 8.97
5 West_Asian 4.72
6 Siberian 2.29
7 Red_Sea 1.7
8 Oceanian 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 4.21
2 East_German 4.5
3 Hungarian 6.49
4 West_German 9.28
5 North_German 9.67
6 South_Dutch 10.05
7 North_Swedish 10.72
8 Swedish 11.21
9 Croatian 11.87
10 Danish 11.94
11 North_Dutch 12.25
12 South_Polish 12.64
13 Norwegian 12.91
14 Southeast_English 13.09
15 Serbian 13.31
16 Orcadian 13.64
17 Moldavian 13.89
18 French 14.28
19 Southwest_Finnish 14.28
20 Ukrainian_Lviv 14.49

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 08:44 AM

I'm speaking in general there is people In Romania with close to Turkey

I've seen Impaler's results and he is clearly an outlier, look at the Romanian kits posted here, none score that much South and West Asian. Romanians can indeed plot more south towards Greece and sometimes up north near Croats or Hungarians but that's because there are plenty of people with different ethnic origin that just started calling themselves Romanians at some point in history. A guy with Greek ancestors in the early 1900's will call himself Romanian. A guy in a village where all names end in -vici or -inschi will also call himself Romanian. The Romanian average is probably not the best point of reference for where Romanians actually plot, just where they all meet in the middle.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 10:20 AM

https://i.imgur.com/05tezBl.png

orange- Croat
red- Romanian/Moldavian/Gagauz
grey-Serb/Montenegrin
green-Albanian

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 10:35 AM

https://i.imgur.com/05tezBl.png

orange- Croat
red- Romanian/Moldavian/Gagauz
grey-Serb/Montenegrin
green-Albanian

I'm counting more Romanians plotting to the right towards West Asia and/or Greece (by a minor degree) than plotting upwards to Slavs or right/right-up towards Balkan Slavs.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 10:57 AM

I'm counting more Romanians plotting to the right towards West Asia (by a minor degree) than plotting upwards to Slavs or right/right-up towards Balkan Slavs.

red dots south of the Bulgarian dot are mostly Gagauz, and the grey dots which overlap with Romanians are mostly Montenegrin.

yes, eastern Balkans have more Caucasian influence, back from the chalcolithic migrations, and the west is more "Sardinian", but there are also other admixtures pulling them east on the pca, South Asian(it doesn't all have to be from Gypsies, Tatars also get South Asian in k15), and also Amerindian/East Asian/Siberian

Seya

09-24-2019, 12:58 PM

red dots south of the Bulgarian dot are mostly Gagauz, and the grey dots which overlap with Romanians are mostly Montenegrin.

yes, eastern Balkans have more Caucasian influence, back from the chalcolithic migrations, and the west is more "Sardinian", but there are also other admixtures pulling them east on the pca, South Asian(it doesn't all have to be from Gypsies, Tatars also get South Asian in k15), and also Amerindian/East Asian/Siberian

i also plot a bit south and a bit east of bulgaria. i live at 40km away from gagauzia. I think it's just regional. gagauz plot similar to their surroundings
https://i.imgur.com/3lxojM8.jpg

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 01:32 PM

i also plot a bit south and a bit east of bulgaria. i live at 40km away from gagauzia. I think it's just regional. gagauz plot similar to their surroundings
https://i.imgur.com/3lxojM8.jpg

Gagauz have zero historical/genetic connection to Moldova and Moldavians, never lived here till 19th when Russians bringed them, you plot with them because you have recent Greek and Wallachian ancestry from both your parents.

Seya

09-24-2019, 01:49 PM

Gagauz have zero historical/genetic connection to Moldova and Moldavians, never lived here till 19th when Russians bringed them, you plot with them because you have recent Greek and Wallachian ancestry from both your parents.

why do gagauz people plot similar to romanians and bulgarians then? they brought them from where? i don't have any recent greek ancetry. i'm as greek as u are ukrainian. who told u about wallachian? i have never said that

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 01:53 PM

why do gagauz people plot similar to romanians and bulgarians then? they brought them from where? i don't have any recent greek ancetry. i'm as greek as u are ukrainian. who told u about wallachian? i have never said that

From the Gagauz wiki page:

Between 1820 and 1846, the Russian Empire allocated land to the Gagauz and gave them financial incentives to settle in Bessarabia in the settlements vacated by the Nogai tribes. They settled in Bessarabia along with Bassarabian Bulgarians, mainly in Avdarma, Comrat (or Komrat), Congaz (Kongaz), Tomai, Cișmichioi and other former Nogai villages located in the central Budjak region. Originally, the Gagauz also settled in several villages belonging to boyars throughout southern Bessarabia and the Principality of Moldavia, but soon moved to join their kin in the Bugeac. Until 1869, the Gagauz in Bessarabia were described as Bulgarians.

They were brought into Bessarabia in the 19th century as Aspirin said. Until then they presented themselves as Bulgarians, as they are, genetically.

Leto

09-24-2019, 01:56 PM

It guess it was better to have the Gagauz than pro-Turkish Mongoloid Islamists... xD

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 02:08 PM

i'm as greek as u are ukrainian.

More correct will be, you are Moldavian as I Ukrainian.

who told u about wallachia?

You.

Ljubic

09-24-2019, 02:29 PM

The Split samples have really low SNPs. Its like they are 23andme V5 kits. With three times the size of SNPs, their results could look very different.
Why are they even academic samples?

Peterski

09-24-2019, 02:35 PM

Why are they even academic samples?

Academic samples are often crap, a lot of outliers too, and scientists often don't bother to check genealogical trees of their volunteers rigorously enough.

Seya

09-24-2019, 02:35 PM

More correct will be, you are Moldavian as I Ukrainian.

You.

wtf are u talking about?? i have never said i'm wallachian. ever! stop inventing dude. and stop confiscating moldova. moldova is not your property. i do not have any recent foreign admixture. it's very old and many generations back. u said about yourself u have ukrainain grait-grandma'. stop denying it now. who are u to say who's moldovian and who's not?

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 02:41 PM

wtf are u talking about?? i have never said i'm wallachian. ever! stop inventing dude. and stop confiscating moldova. moldova is not your property. i do not have any recent foreign admixture. it's very old and many generations back. u said about yourself u have ukrainain grait-grandma'. stop denying it now. who are u to say who's moldovian and who's not?

Aspirin's samples are better overall examples of Romanian Moldavians and they seem to pull in between the Moldovan and Romanian averages, which, honestly, one would expect. But based on how scattered Romanians are you can't just discard one's known ancestry because he plots more south/east/west/north.

But I'm closer to a Serb/Montenegrin than a Romanian so :-??

Academic samples are often crap, a lot of outliers too, and scientists often don't bother to check genealogical trees of their volunteers rigorously enough.

Some of the Romanian and Moldavian ones in this thread, if indeed used for average references, make the Moldovan and Romanian averages very skewed. They indeed did not seem to make much of a research in genealogical trees.

Peterski

09-24-2019, 02:43 PM

^^^
Remember the famous slogan - "the proportion of human genetic variation due to differences between populations is modest, and individuals from different populations can be genetically more similar than individuals from the same population." This can be easily proven if you include people with recently ethnically and regionally mixed backgrounds in your dataset, instead of selecting only the ones with "pure" genealogy.

Seya

09-24-2019, 02:47 PM

Aspirin's samples are better overall examples of Romanian Moldavians and they seem to pull in between the Moldovan and Romanian averages, which, honestly, one would expect. But based on how scattered Romanians are you can't just discard one's known ancestry because he plots more south/east/west/north.

But I'm closer to a Serb/Montenegrin than a Romanian so :-??

Some of the Romanian and Moldavian ones in this thread, if indeed used for average references, make the Moldovan and Romanian averages very skewed. They indeed did not seem to make much of a research in genealogical trees.

i did not give any examples except for myself. how is that not relevant enough?? why are his example more relevant?? can u tell me that? me and my family were born and raised in moldova. who told u that those people are pure moldovians and have no recent foreign ancestry? all moldovians here have said to have foreign ancestry. why is Moldavian+Ukrainian=pure moldovian but moldovian+greek=foreign??

Seya

09-24-2019, 02:51 PM

Aspirin's samples are better overall examples of Romanian Moldavians and they seem to pull in between the Moldovan and Romanian averages, which, honestly, one would expect. But based on how scattered Romanians are you can't just discard one's known ancestry because he plots more south/east/west/north.

But I'm closer to a Serb/Montenegrin than a Romanian so :-??

Some of the Romanian and Moldavian ones in this thread, if indeed used for average references, make the Moldovan and Romanian averages very skewed. They indeed did not seem to make much of a research in genealogical trees.

look at that dude up near belarus. now that's pure moldovian, right?? anyone more northern shifted that average is pure breed..nice

Peterski

09-24-2019, 02:51 PM

But this observation is also interesting (from Dienekes and Razib's blogs):

"In some cases there is asymmetry of genetic affiliation between ethnic groups. For example, no Belgians are guessed [by the algorithm] as Germans but 10.2% of Germans are guessed as Belgians. Similarly 9.9% of Swedes are guessed as Norwegians, but only 1% of Norwegians are guessed as Swedes. While each case needs to be addressed individually, this observation is consistent with historical asymmetry in migration patterns or ethnic identity formation. So, while e.g., the bulk of Germans (64.4%) are guessed correctly, sizeable minorities are guessed as Czechs, Belgians, Scandinavians, etc."

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 02:53 PM

i did not give any examples except for myself. how is that not relevant enough?? why are his example more relevant?? can u tell me that? me and my family were born and raised in moldova. who told u that those people are pure moldovians and have no recent foreign ancestry? all moldovians here have said to have foreign ancestry. why is Moldavian+Ukrainian=pure moldovian but moldovian+greek=foreign??

I said that his are more appropriate because while they pull more north they're not as north as the current Moldovan average and it would discard the absolute 2 Russians in the "academic" samples.

I never said Moldavian+Greek is foreign. I said that there is plenty of variation and one should not be discarded for pulling south of the average. The only statement is that it is concrete that Moldova has had more influx of people from Ukraine and Poland than from Greece, so it would be expected for Moldavians to pull more North-East on average. This does not disqualify either of us from being Moldavians.

Seya

09-24-2019, 02:57 PM

I said that his are more appropriate because while they pull more north they're not as north as the current Moldovan average and it would discard the absolute 2 Russians in the "academic" samples.

I never said Moldavian+Greek is foreign. I said that there is plenty of variation and one should not be discarded for pulling south of the average. The only statement is that it is concrete that Moldova has had more influx of people from Ukraine and Poland than from Greece, so it would be expected for Moldavians to pull more North-East on average. This does not disqualify either of us from being Moldavians.

i think u didn't read what he wrote then

More correct will be, you are Moldavian as I Ukrainian.

Mingle

09-24-2019, 03:03 PM

The Split samples have really low SNPs. Its like they are 23andme V5 kits. With three times the size of SNPs, their results could look very different.
Why are they even academic samples?

Their results would only marginally change if more SNPs were used. It wouldn't be "very different". I have taken tests with both 23andMe's V5 chip as well as FTDNA (180k SNP) and a difference exists but the difference is insignificant.

Bessarion

09-24-2019, 03:05 PM

WeirdLookingFellow

09-24-2019, 03:06 PM

i think u didn't read what he wrote then

I addressed it with this:

But based on how scattered Romanians are you can't just discard one's known ancestry because he plots more south/east/west/north.

And I already answered your thing about the guy up there in Belarus in another post, those absolute 2 Russians have skewed the Moldavian average if they were used and have no place being called Moldavians genetically. But bear in mind that Impaler plots as far away from Romania as those Russians do. It's up to Impaler if he even thinks of himself as Romanian that much I don't know his ancestry but I would not reference him as around the average Romanian.

andre

09-24-2019, 03:10 PM

it would be interesting that these samples are uploaded to global25.

Leto

09-24-2019, 03:14 PM

Academic samples are often crap, a lot of outliers too, and scientists often don't bother to check genealogical trees of their volunteers rigorously enough.
Yeah, see the supposed Zaporozhye Cossack - 70% Russian, 30% Armenian, lol. I know they have accepted a lot of random people into the Cossackdom in the past decades but from a genetic point of view that's irrelevant.

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 03:37 PM

stop confiscating moldova. moldova is not your property.

I live in Moldova, you in Romania (not even in Moldavian region). :coffee:

i do not have any recent foreign admixture. it's very old and many generations back. u said about yourself u have ukrainain grait-grandma'. stop denying it now. who are u to say who's moldovian and who's not?

You results are atypical even for Romania, you originate from the most southern Moldavian place, wich have Wallacho-Moldavian mix population with plenty of individuals of Greek origins, and many other origins. Both your parents have roots outside of Moldova. What conclusion I need to make bassed on this information? Instead of you, my ancestry is fully from rural area, not from urban area, from my mother side I have distant Răzeși ancestry, so I am very Moldavian compared to you. And yes, my great-grandmother from my paternal grandmother side had an Western Ukrainian surname, wich indicate what I have an Ukrainian ancestor who lived 7-8 generations back since not she, not her father or her grandfather never speaked Ukrainian language. If you put together with the rest of my ancestry this will be just a tiny noise. Since we are on such place like this forum wich is related to genetics, is NECESSARY to speak about your origins. I since the begining when I came on this forum I said what I have some distant Ukrainian ancestry, you not. You in general claim to be "pure" lmao, so stop with these laughlable acusations toards me.

Seya

09-24-2019, 03:59 PM

I live in Moldova, you in Romania (not even in Moldavian region). :coffee:

You results are atypical even for Romania, you originate from the ...,

Everyone on this forum know about my distant foreign ancestry dude. It was even written on my profile until...maybe a year ago. Everyone can confirm that. Who told u i do not live in moldova?? Where the hell are u taking this info from??

andre

09-24-2019, 04:06 PM

Everyone on this forum know about my distant foreign ancestry dude. It was even written on my profile until...maybe a year ago. Everyone can confirm that. Who told u i do not live in moldova?? Where the hell are u taking this info from??

I’m just curious, what is your distant foreign ancestry?

Jana

09-24-2019, 04:07 PM

Everyone on this forum know about my distant foreign ancestry dude. It was even written on my profile until...maybe a year ago. Everyone can confirm that. Who told u i do not live in moldova?? Where the hell are u taking this info from??

Yes I can confirm, when you joined TA you had written you're part Greek in your profile :)

Seya

09-24-2019, 04:14 PM

Yes I can confirm, when you joined TA you had written you're part Greek in your profile :)

:) thanks! I even posted my 23andme maps in here. I never hided anything

Seya

09-24-2019, 04:14 PM

I’m just curious, what is your distant foreign ancestry?

Greek

Impaler

09-24-2019, 04:32 PM

Greek

Yes, I remember when both had Greek on profile. :) How distant is your Greek? Mine is 1/16. My mother is 1/8.

Seya

09-24-2019, 04:35 PM

Yes, I remember when both had Greek on profile. :) How distant is your Greek? Mine is 1/16. My mother is 1/8.

Same

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 06:10 PM

The Split samples have really low SNPs. Its like they are 23andme V5 kits. With three times the size of SNPs, their results could look very different.
Why are they even academic samples?

they have almost 600k snps, like a regular commercial raw data file, but not the ones used in gedmatch calculators. it's the same for 23andme v5 and the new FTDNA and myheritage.
gedmatch calculators were all made 10 years ago when nobody knew chips will change this much.

i think PCAs and lower K calculators are less sensitive to low snp kits, k36 results can be pretty different yes

Mingle

09-24-2019, 06:11 PM

Everyone on this forum know about my distant foreign ancestry dude. It was even written on my profile until...maybe a year ago. Everyone can confirm that. Who told u i do not live in moldova?? Where the hell are u taking this info from??

Is your family originally from Dobrogea but living in Moldova? I thought you said you were from there before.

Seya

09-24-2019, 06:26 PM

Is your family originally from Dobrogea but living in Moldova? I thought you said you were from there before.

I posted the map with my romanian regions. Yes, it shows both.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 06:40 PM

it seems that these Bulgarians are the same ones Ajeje Brazorf posted but they are labeled diferently so i didn't know.
so these are all from Plovdiv

Kit Number: Z778162
Name: Bulgaria1

Kit Number: Z076159
Name: Bulgaria2

Kit Number: Z485230
Name: Bulgaria25

Kit Number: Z115788
Name: Bulgaria26

Kit Number: Z912345
Name: Bulgaria3

Kit Number: Z054075
Name: Bulgaria33

Kit Number: T633483
Name: Bulgaria37

Kit Number: Z181725
Name: Bulgaria39

Kit Number: Z943722
Name: Bulgaria4

Kit Number: Z549316
Name: Bulgaria5

Kit Number: Z456732
Name: Bulgaria6

Kit Number: Z168171
Name: Bulgaria7

Kit Number: Z360879
Name: Bulgaria8

Nurzat

09-24-2019, 07:10 PM

we Romanians are quite diverse. some are more Greek-leaning, some more Ukrainian-leaning, from individual to individual they can be closest to Bulgarians, Serbs, Hungarians or even Greeks. here's my top 50 populations on Global25 vahaduo:

Distance to: Nurzat
0.01937738 Bosnian
0.02162938 Croatian
0.02484885 Montenegrin
0.02518904 Hungarian
0.02550107 Serbian
0.02566992 Slovenian
0.02811493 Austrian
0.02853118 Romanian
0.03452323 Macedonian
0.03682563 Bulgarian
0.03945049 Czech
0.04079238 Slovakian
0.04166162 German_East
0.04223204 Moldavian
0.04346569 German
0.04494832 French_East
0.04534221 Gagauz
0.04704962 Italian_Northeast
0.04810696 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.04947054 Swiss_German
0.05021779 Belgian
0.05078202 Polish
0.05213432 Ukrainian
0.05338592 French_Provence
0.05368907 French
0.05404954 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.05648181 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.05679922 Dutch
0.05815203 Swiss_French
0.05825518 Russian_Orel
0.05883056 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.05931825 Russian_Voronez
0.05942360 Italian_Veneto
0.06039812 Russian_Kursk
0.06087459 Turkish_Balkans
0.06173566 French_Brittany
0.06192415 Swedish
0.06194569 English
0.06272049 Orcadian
0.06289833 Scottish
0.06348718 English_Cornwall
0.06360146 Shetlandic
0.06442539 Welsh
0.06464038 Albanian
0.06529174 Swiss_Italian
0.06533326 Spanish_Mallorca
0.06601497 Norwegian
0.06606675 Russian_Smolensk
0.06655271 Irish
0.06658788 Greek

and when I keep more relevant populations:

Distance to: Nurzat
0.02518904 Hungarian
0.02550107 Serbian
0.02811493 Austrian
0.02853118 Romanian
0.03682563 Bulgarian
0.03945049 Czech
0.04079238 Slovakian
0.04166162 German_East
0.04223204 Moldavian
0.04346569 German
0.04494832 French_East
0.04534221 Gagauz
0.04947054 Swiss_German
0.05021779 Belgian
0.05078202 Polish
0.05213432 Ukrainian
0.05338592 French_Provence
0.05368907 French
0.05404954 Sorb_Niederlausitz
0.05648181 Cossack_Ukrainian
0.05679922 Dutch
0.05825518 Russian_Orel
0.05931825 Russian_Voronez
0.06039812 Russian_Kursk
0.06173566 French_Brittany
0.06192415 Swedish
0.06194569 English
0.06272049 Orcadian
0.06289833 Scottish
0.06348718 English_Cornwall
0.06360146 Shetlandic
0.06442539 Welsh
0.06464038 Albanian
0.06601497 Norwegian
0.06606675 Russian_Smolensk
0.06655271 Irish
0.06658788 Greek
0.06783586 Belarusian
0.06821706 Spanish_Baleares
0.06872908 Icelandic
0.06941825 Russian_Tver
0.07145727 Cossack_Kuban
0.07320987 Italian_Lombardy
0.07572863 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.07614437 Spanish_Andalucia
0.07665138 Mordovian
0.07715360 Portuguese
0.07756920 Italian_Tuscany
0.07987340 Russian_Kostroma
0.08399248 French_Corsica

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 07:34 PM

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 08:21 PM

https://i.imgur.com/SbWjVet.png
Bulgarians and Gagauz in pink

Nurzat

09-24-2019, 08:24 PM

where do you plot on the k15 pca?

northeast of Moldavian dot, not far away

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 08:39 PM

https://i.imgur.com/SbWjVet.png

Remove the individuals who plot near Belarus and Ukrainian Lviv, those persons don't have anything to do with Moldova and Moldavians. Results with more than 40% Baltic are not Moldavians, even half Mold/half Ukr mixes dont have such high Baltic score.

Jana

09-24-2019, 09:04 PM

Remove the individuals who plot near Belarus and Ukrainian Lviv, those persons don't have anything to do with Moldova and Moldavians. Results with more than 40% Baltic are not Moldavians, even half Mold/half Ukr mixes dont have such high Baltic score.

Did you test in the end ? If you did, I wonder who will get results sooner: you or Stears. 23andme is really slow...

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 09:08 PM

Did you test in the end ? If you did, I wonder who will get results sooner: you or Stears. 23andme is really slow...

I will post soon my results.

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 09:11 PM

Remove the individuals who plot near Belarus and Ukrainian Lviv, those persons don't have anything to do with Moldova and Moldavians. Results with more than 40% Baltic are not Moldavians, even half Mold/half Ukr mixes dont have such high Baltic score.

Lol, but they counted those as "Academic Samples"

That is the same if I said Poles with 30% something Baltic admixture are not Poles, when some of their names can easily be traced to noble families

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 09:17 PM

https://i.imgur.com/QydwGHO.png

the Serbian average is actually a very good Serbian + Monetenegrin average

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 09:27 PM

Lol, but they counted those as "Academic Samples"

Academic Samples are totally bullshit, these results just prove this.

Kit JA8090639

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.16
2 North_Atlantic 22.5
3 West_Med 11.38
4 West_Asian 8.35
5 East_Med 7.16
6 Siberian 1.84
7 Sub-Saharan 1.34
8 Oceanian 0.71
9 Amerindian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 4.81
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 5.05
3 Ukrainian 6.03
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.53
5 Russian_Smolensk 7.38
6 Estonian_Polish 7.71
7 Polish 8.37
8 South_Polish 8.42
9 Belorussian 8.89
10 Kargopol_Russian 9.12
11 Erzya 9.36
12 Croatian 10.74
13 Lithuanian 11.62
14 Moldavian 12.34
15 Estonian 13.36
16 East_Finnish 14.8
17 Finnish 15.11
18 Hungarian 15.88
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.82
20 East_German 18.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 5.7% Sardinian 3.79
2 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Cyprian 3.9
3 95.3% Southwest_Russian + 4.7% Sardinian 3.93
4 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Armenian 3.95
5 95.6% Southwest_Russian + 4.4% Abhkasian 3.98
6 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Georgian_Jewish 3.98
7 89.6% Southwest_Russian + 10.4% Bulgarian 3.98
8 93.6% Southwest_Russian + 6.4% Central_Greek 3.99
9 81.4% Southwest_Russian + 18.6% Moldavian 3.99
10 95.5% Southwest_Russian + 4.5% Georgian 4
11 95.5% Southwest_Russian + 4.5% Assyrian 4.02
12 92.4% Southwest_Russian + 7.6% Greek_Thessaly 4.02
13 94.3% Southwest_Russian + 5.7% South_Italian 4.04
14 93.9% Southwest_Russian + 6.1% East_Sicilian 4.04
15 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Algerian_Jewish 4.05
16 94.8% Southwest_Russian + 5.2% Balkar 4.05
17 95.8% Southwest_Russian + 4.2% Lebanese_Christian 4.06
18 95.7% Southwest_Russian + 4.3% Samaritan 4.06
19 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Turkish 4.07
20 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Lebanese_Muslim 4.07

Leto

09-24-2019, 09:34 PM

Balanovsky et al (2019) has a lot of various samples, it would good if someone uploaded at least some of them. Peterski doesn't feel like doing it. Maybe some of them are already on GEDmatch, I can't be sure.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 09:37 PM

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 09:40 PM

https://i.imgur.com/QydwGHO.png

the Serbian average is actually a very good Serbian + Monetenegrin average

Serbs 1:5 and Montenegrins 1,4,5,6,7 are in Global25

Leto

09-24-2019, 09:44 PM

you have the link to the raw data?
No, I don't.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 09:54 PM

Serbs 1:5 and Montenegrins 1,4,5,6,7 are in Global25

circled them
https://i.imgur.com/5psTtIf.png

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:02 PM

Academic Samples are totally bullshit, these results just prove this.

Kit JA8090639

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 46.16
2 North_Atlantic 22.5
3 West_Med 11.38
4 West_Asian 8.35
5 East_Med 7.16
6 Siberian 1.84
7 Sub-Saharan 1.34
8 Oceanian 0.71
9 Amerindian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Southwest_Russian 4.81
2 Ukrainian_Belgorod 5.05
3 Ukrainian 6.03
4 Ukrainian_Lviv 6.53
5 Russian_Smolensk 7.38
6 Estonian_Polish 7.71
7 Polish 8.37
8 South_Polish 8.42
9 Belorussian 8.89
10 Kargopol_Russian 9.12
11 Erzya 9.36
12 Croatian 10.74
13 Lithuanian 11.62
14 Moldavian 12.34
15 Estonian 13.36
16 East_Finnish 14.8
17 Finnish 15.11
18 Hungarian 15.88
19 Southwest_Finnish 16.82
20 East_German 18.41

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 94.3% Ukrainian_Belgorod + 5.7% Sardinian 3.79
2 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Cyprian 3.9
3 95.3% Southwest_Russian + 4.7% Sardinian 3.93
4 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Armenian 3.95
5 95.6% Southwest_Russian + 4.4% Abhkasian 3.98
6 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Georgian_Jewish 3.98
7 89.6% Southwest_Russian + 10.4% Bulgarian 3.98
8 93.6% Southwest_Russian + 6.4% Central_Greek 3.99
9 81.4% Southwest_Russian + 18.6% Moldavian 3.99
10 95.5% Southwest_Russian + 4.5% Georgian 4
11 95.5% Southwest_Russian + 4.5% Assyrian 4.02
12 92.4% Southwest_Russian + 7.6% Greek_Thessaly 4.02
13 94.3% Southwest_Russian + 5.7% South_Italian 4.04
14 93.9% Southwest_Russian + 6.1% East_Sicilian 4.04
15 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Algerian_Jewish 4.05
16 94.8% Southwest_Russian + 5.2% Balkar 4.05
17 95.8% Southwest_Russian + 4.2% Lebanese_Christian 4.06
18 95.7% Southwest_Russian + 4.3% Samaritan 4.06
19 94.9% Southwest_Russian + 5.1% Turkish 4.07
20 95.4% Southwest_Russian + 4.6% Lebanese_Muslim 4.07

If they can afford it, I'm sure their passport still says Moldova

Zmey Gorynych

09-24-2019, 10:12 PM

Lol, but they counted those as "Academic Samples"

That is the same if I said Poles with 30% something Baltic admixture are not Poles, when some of their names can easily be traced to noble families
Well, we're not particularly interested in academic samples. Our goal is to find out what natives score. No one disqualifies these individuals as citizens of the country. They just happen to have foreign ancestry. I think everyone is interested in getting a sizable moldovan only sample that is not skewed by east-slavs, gagauz or some other minority.

That mixed slav with gypsy should also be removed.

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:16 PM

Well, we're not particularly interested in academic samples. Our goal is to find out what natives score. No one disqualifies these individuals as citizens of the country. They just happen to have foreign ancestry. I think everyone is interested in getting a sizable moldovan only sample that is not skewed by east-slavs, gagauz or some other minority.

Ok but good luck, you guys don't have a majority tight cluster like Poles, Serbs, Albanians. Romanians is also loose cluster. It has everything to do with history, it will always boil down to that no matter how you spin it

Jana

09-24-2019, 10:17 PM

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 10:20 PM

Romanians
https://i.imgur.com/8nCtd7U.png

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:23 PM

Poles and Serbs don't have tight cluster, only Albanians do.

"This some stats for Kresy Poles based in these samples. They are Southeast Poles originally from guard posts in Western Ukraine near Southern Polish border, they have been there since predating Polish Lithuanian Commonwealth officially Poland annexed this region Galicia Volhynia in 1349 and most were living until deportation to Siberia or call to war during 1940s in 20th century, in 1947 this borders were redrawn by Stalin:"

Baltic 34.98 - 47.82%
North Atlantic 24.29 - 35.20%
East Med 4.46 - 11.34%
West Asian 1.7 - 14.31%
West Med 7.61 - 14.31%
Red Sea 0 - 1.72%
Sub Saharan 0 - 3.08%
Northeast African 0 - 1.19%
South Asian 0 - 2.17%
Siberian 0 - 3.07%
Oceanian 0 - 1.16%
Amerindian 0 - 1.87%
East Asian 0 - 1.90%

I think there is only 1 or 2 Poles with 30+ North Atlantic and they have Saxon ancestry from Romania

Zmey Gorynych

09-24-2019, 10:25 PM

Ok but good luck, you guys don't have a majority tight cluster like Poles, Serbs, Albanians. Romanians is also loose cluster. It has everything to do with history, it will always boil down to that no matter how you spin it
Maybe, let's see what other moldovans without any recent foreign ancestry score and if they score low to mid 30% Baltic and low to mid 20% north-atlantic then I think you can speak of a certain moldovan genetic make-up.

Jana

09-24-2019, 10:26 PM

I'm very far from Lithuanians but some North-East Poles are not only close to them, but even cluster with them.

This just shows how diverse Poles can be depending on region. I'm even closer to the Welsh than to Lithuanians.

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:29 PM

Maybe, let's see what other moldovans without any recent foreign ancestry score and if they score low to mid 30% Baltic and low to mid 20% north-atlantic then I think you can speak of a certain moldovan genetic make-up.

Probably yours is the Moldovan prototype, I seen your result

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:31 PM

Prussians is not my race, I don't know who they belong to but Poland I guess now:

91522

Where you seeing Prussians in my result?

Nurzat

09-24-2019, 10:34 PM

Romanians
https://i.imgur.com/8nCtd7U.png

Maybe, let's see what other moldovans without any recent foreign ancestry score and if they score low to mid 30% Baltic and low to mid 20% north-atlantic then I think you can speak of a certain moldovan genetic make-up.

nice. see how Vaslui, Botosani and Iasi counties are aligned with Rep. Moldova average (blue dot) - Moldovans within historical Moldova seem to form a cluster of their own :coffee:

Jana

09-24-2019, 10:35 PM

Prussians is not my race, I don't know who they belong to but Poland I guess now:

91522

Where you seeing Prussians in my result?

Peterski is fully Polish from Greater Poland, region where Polish state was formed, and typical for his region. You are half Ukrainian.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 10:39 PM

Poles and Serbs don't have tight cluster, only Albanians do.

Serbs have as tight of a cluster as Albanians, at least on this pca. Romanian cluster seems less tight than others but maybe we just need more samples.

Jana

09-24-2019, 10:41 PM

Serbs have as tight of a cluster as Albanians, at least on this pca. Romanian cluster seems less tight than others but maybe we just need more samples.

Since Hungry Lion is closest to Austrian average, I doubt it. He is like another planet compared to some Montenegrins and southeastern Serbs.

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 10:44 PM

nice. see how Vaslui, Botosani and Iasi counties are aligned with Rep. Moldova average (blue dot) - Moldovans within historical Moldova seem to form a cluster of their own :coffee:

where's the historical Moldova? the samples with names beginning with Moldova_V are all from the republic of Moldova. the Moldovan average point is calculated from them+ an Ukrainian and some Latvian admixed guy.

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 10:47 PM

Peterski is fully Polish from Greater Poland, region where Polish state was formed, and typical for his region. You are half Ukrainian.

Peterski is commoner lol, my Father is from noble family Jan Sobieski Polish King came from our line, and many other Central European nobles. If you can prove Peterski relevance is more than that I am listening..

Regarding my Mother, her ancestors were Cossacks living within the Polish boundary, there was no Ukraine at this time. Ukraine existed in 1990s. After the war my ancestors decided it was better to remain within Polish boundary than go into foreign Russia many Poles are no different than me

Ok I call you Serb if you want to play silly games

Jana

09-24-2019, 10:51 PM

Peterski is commoner lol, my Father is from noble family Jan Sobieski Polish King came from our line, and many other Central European nobles. If you can prove Peterski relevance is more than that I am listening..

Regarding my Mother, her ancestors were Cossacks living within the Polish boundary, there was no Ukraine at this time. Ukraine existed in 1990s. After the war my ancestors decided it was better to remain within Polish boundary than go into foreign Russia many Poles are no different than me

Ok I call you Serb if you want to play silly games

Most Poles have some noble ancestry down the line since Poland was nation with one of greatest percentage of small nobles in Europe.
Cossacks were mostly Eastern Slavs, Poles are Western Slavs and Cossacks fought them.

You can call me Serb, but I am not one nor I cluster with them. My point stands that Poles are not genetically homogenous.

Zmey Gorynych

09-24-2019, 10:54 PM

nice. see how Vaslui, Botosani and Iasi counties are aligned with Rep. Moldova average (blue dot) - Moldovans within historical Moldova seem to form a cluster of their own :coffee:
and I'm exactly in the middle of it, the epicentre, the navel of moldavianess.

where's the historical Moldova? the samples with names beginning with Moldova_V are all from the republic of Moldova. the Moldovan average point is calculated from them+ an Ukrainian and some Latvian admixed guy.
He's talking about Romania vaslui samples, myself and Romania Iasi/Botosani - all from the historical principality of Moldova.

Remove Moldavia V28645 if you don't mind - it's obvious he's part slav-part gypsy.

Leto

09-24-2019, 10:59 PM

You can call me Serb, but I am not one nor I cluster with them. My point stands that Poles are not genetically homogenous.
You and some other members are too much obsessed with minute differences from GEDmatch. You guys look for diversity even in the smallest countries.

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 11:02 PM

Most Poles have some noble ancestry down the line since Poland was nation with one of greatest percentage of small nobles in Europe.
Cossacks were mostly Eastern Slavs, Poles are Western Slavs and Cossacks fought them.

You can call me Serb, but I am not one nor I cluster with them. My point stands that Poles are not genetically homogenous.

We have 40 million and 80 million worldwide more assimilated and many got population cleansed in the war too don't forget I don't know what they taught you in Fakehistory101. This is not some Montenegro 500,000 population. And my type of Poles (Szlachta) are close, to the point I would worry about inbreeding if anything. If we did inbred we are strong af because iron sharpens iron. I worry about inbreeding in the Jewish minority of our ancestry because of Jews generational health defects, but everyone should be aware of that with Sephardic or Ashkenazic Jewish lines, that why denying Jewishness in this day and age is somewhat self destruct

There is no West East South Slavs. I am all 3, deal with it

Nurzat

09-24-2019, 11:06 PM

You and some other members are too much obsessed with minute differences from GEDmatch. You guys look for diversity even in the smallest countries.

that's why when I do "distance" runs I remove the diarrhea of countries in the Balkans and I only keep Hungarians, Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians and Albanians - it's informative enough for the region, don't need to get 10 more all-too-similar populations fill-in the list, it's a mess then

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 11:11 PM

He is like another planet

Austrians aren't another planet compared to South Slavs genetically. maybe culturally. the distance of Hungrylion(who is probably mixed) to that southernmost Montenegrin isn't that different to the distance between the Albanian from Montenegro and Albanian from Macednonia.

https://i.imgur.com/kMDdatl.png

this is probably the entire Serbian+Montenegrin range, the Albanians are mostly from Kosovo and Tirana, with more samples their cluster will probably get bigger too

Jana

09-24-2019, 11:12 PM

You and some other members are too much obsessed with minute differences from GEDmatch. You guys look for diversity even in the smallest countries.

No. This are not minute differences, they are natural tribal divisions and not artifical national groupings.
Otherwise what are you doing in genetics section ? All humans are extremely similar genetically, you can have sex with Australoid and you will produce children, not much difference there apart from looks.

Jana

09-24-2019, 11:14 PM

that's why when I do "distance" runs I remove the diarrhea of countries in the Balkans and I only keep Hungarians, Serbs, Romanians, Bulgarians and Albanians - it's informative enough for the region, don't need to get 10 more all-too-similar populations fill-in the list, it's a mess then

You do that to pull yourself artifically closer to East-Central Europeans and to hide the fact you cluster with West Balkan genetically.

Jana

09-24-2019, 11:15 PM

Austrians aren't another planet compared to South Slavs genetically.

They are compared to Macedonians and Bulgarians, and that is where southernmost Serbs plot.

Nurzat

09-24-2019, 11:16 PM

You do that to pull yourself artifically closer to East-Central Europeans and to hide the fact you cluster with West Balkan genetically.

if I wanted to do that I wouldn't have posted BOTH results, with and without. I've also explained why I removed those in the second list within the same post. so who's hiding what?

Yugoslavia broke out into too many countries, we're kind of sick of it, I mean to deal with all those countries in sports and whatever. it's a diarrhea of countries on the Balkan map. too many. it's only natural to consider the relevant ones only.

it's like Romania would break into its 10-12 historical regions, it'd be a mess... no one would be interested in the nuances, but only in broader Romanian cluster.

Jana

09-24-2019, 11:19 PM

if I wanted to do that I wouldn't have posted BOTH results, with and without. I've also explained why I removed those in the second list within the same post. so who's hiding what? you're pathetic.

You are, because I don't see sense to drop Bosnians but keep Romanians and Bulgarians. Later are genetically closer on G25 than the former are to Serbs.
No point to keep Slovaks, they are similar to Czechs. No point to keep Ukrainians, they are similar to southern Russians. No point to keep Austrians, they are similar to Slovenes. Should I continue ? No. The list is endless.

Jana

09-24-2019, 11:21 PM

Yugoslavia broke out into too many countries, we're kind of sick of it, I mean to deal with all those countries in sports and whatever. it's a diarrhea of countries on the Balkan map. too many. it's only natural to consider the relevant ones only.

And cure your frustrations because you suck in sports compared to ex-Yu countries elsewhere. :thumb001:

Aspirin

09-24-2019, 11:28 PM

where's the historical Moldova?

https://scontent-otp1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/21617854_891278261025771_2224995538297507586_n.png ?_nc_cat=102&_nc_oc=AQm1NDpABrBDASU18mIPVFSQGdjTE9TJ7XLJ72ZI6gv JdBL8pGLn3cxO1rlJai_W1-E&_nc_ht=scontent-otp1-1.xx&oh=3bdd17ebc3782bff1cac72c35fa6c10a&oe=5E03F1BC
https://qph.fs.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-b2e18e4f57033ffa8595c112092731e9
https://2.bp.blogspot.com/-XD9RC5aNhAs/WqDIRD-KF5I/AAAAAAAADwQ/jV3Cb4oe6oo4CRcZDkVoMgoA022notI3ACLcBGAs/s1600/United.png

Cumansky

09-24-2019, 11:33 PM

You are, because I don't see sense to drop Bosnians but keep Romanians and Bulgarians. Later are genetically closer on G25 than the former are to Serbs.
No point to keep Slovaks, they are similar to Czechs. No point to keep Ukrainians, they are similar to southern Russians. No point to keep Austrians, they are similar to Slovenes. Should I continue ? No. The list is endless.

Why you lying, Bosniensis user ain't going plot with Croatians unless they have his kind of Vlach ancestry. He Bosnian, I seen he will plot with Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs the East Balkan

vbnetkhio

09-24-2019, 11:37 PM

They are compared to Macedonians and Bulgarians, and that is where southernmost Serbs plot.

https://i.imgur.com/vEkyHTE.png

https://i.imgur.com/Pdgvvfv.png

only Serbs stand between Austrians and Bulgarians/Macedonians. or Croats and Serbs if you ignore the most southeastern plotting Austrians. but they are Austrians too. Tyrol Austrians are like a natural continuation of Montenegrins.

Mingle

09-25-2019, 12:55 AM

it's like Romania would break into its 10-12 historical regions, it'd be a mess... no one would be interested in the nuances, but only in broader Romanian cluster.

In the context of genetics, Romanians probably should be divided by regions considering their genetic diversity. Not 10-12, but maybe 4 or something.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 09:00 AM

Romanians
https://i.imgur.com/8nCtd7U.png

Romanian/Moldovan/youtube is this guy, he plots like Seya and he is from the same region i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzWeVfUgc8

Insuperable

09-25-2019, 09:21 AM

https://i.imgur.com/vEkyHTE.png

https://i.imgur.com/Pdgvvfv.png

only Serbs stand between Austrians and Bulgarians/Macedonians. or Croats and Serbs if you ignore the most southeastern plotting Austrians. but they are Austrians too. Tyrol Austrians are like a natural continuation of Montenegrins.

Purple ones are I am guessing Austrians. Can you plot Hungarians and Slovenians? I know I am asking too much.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 09:27 AM

Purple ones are I am guessing Austrians. Can you plot Hungarians and Slovenians? I know I am asking too much.

https://i.imgur.com/sejUatm.png
the purple sticks are Slovenians, and the orange + are Hungarians, but these are old samples, not the ones from this thread
you could plot the new Slovenians and Hungarians if you are on the computer? it's just this plot https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm , post their xy coordinates here

Seya

09-25-2019, 09:31 AM

Austrians aren't another planet compared to South Slavs genetically. maybe culturally. the distance of Hungrylion(who is probably mixed) to that southernmost Montenegrin isn't that different to the distance between the Albanian from Montenegro and Albanian from Macednonia.

https://i.imgur.com/kMDdatl.png

this is probably the entire Serbian+Montenegrin range, the Albanians are mostly from Kosovo and Tirana, with more samples their cluster will probably get bigger too

Hungrylion isn’t mixed. He’s only serbian with some distant montenegrian origin.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 09:47 AM

Hungrylion isn’t mixed. He’s only serbian with some distant montenegrian origin.

Montenegrins, Hungrylion
https://i.imgur.com/n4nAWop.png

Seya

09-25-2019, 09:52 AM

Montenegrins, Hungrylion
https://i.imgur.com/n4nAWop.png

i said he has some known montenergian ancestry...not that he's montenegrian. he's serb. that's it. if u imply that he has some german ancestry..he doesn't

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 10:17 AM

if u imply that he has some german ancestry..he doesn't

every Balkanian probably has at least 0,something Germanic ancestry.
the most northwestern Serbs probably plot there because of Saxon, Gothic etc. influence. and he is even more northwestern than them, so he very likely has a more recent Austrian ancestor that pulls him in that direction

Seya

09-25-2019, 10:19 AM

every Balkanian probably has at least 0,something Germanic ancestry.
the most northwestern Serbs probably plot there because of Saxon, Gothic etc. influence. and he is even more northwestern than them, so he very likely has a more recent Austrian ancestor that pulls him in that direction

he doesn't know about any of that. so, if there is, it's definitely not recent.

Jana

09-25-2019, 10:55 AM

Why you lying, Bosniensis user ain't going plot with Croatians unless they have his kind of Vlach ancestry. He Bosnian, I seen he will plot with Romanians, Bulgarians, Serbs the East Balkan

Why are you lying ? Bosnian average on G25 is closer to Croatian one than to Serb. You don't need to lecture me about Bosnians, my direct paternal line is Bosnian muslim.
Bosniensis has recent Montenegrin ancestry, proper Bosniaks are genetically more like Vlatko Vuković.

Jana

09-25-2019, 10:58 AM

Montenegrins, Hungrylion

Medieval Montenegrins don't need to be identical to modern ones, and his Montenegrin ancestry is probably old. Northern Montenegro was probably very Slavic back than because Raška streched to that area.

Ford

09-25-2019, 11:05 AM

Montenegrins, Hungrylion
https://i.imgur.com/n4nAWop.png

Autosomal sharing is washed out pretty quickly. I'm 1/32 Montenegrin from my mother's side and I don't think anyone could tell based on my results.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 11:30 AM

Medieval Montenegrins don't need to be identical to modern ones, and his Montenegrin ancestry is probably old. Northern Montenegro was probably very Slavic back than because Raška streched to that area.

his Slavic admixture is normal, it's his Germanic that sticks out, he's the most Germanic Serb so far.
maybe people in his village and surroundings are all very Slavic and Germanic. but for now it seems he's an outlier even from his region.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 11:31 AM

Autosomal sharing is washed out pretty quickly. I'm 1/32 Montenegrin from my mother's side and I don't think anyone could tell based on my results.

i know, i thought Seya implied he plots diferently from Serbs because of his Montenegrin ancestry

CommonSense

09-25-2019, 11:38 AM

As you can see the Serb from the shopluk zone (https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/8/8b/Shopluk_region_map.png/220px-Shopluk_region_map.png) (Serbo-Bulgarian intermediate) plots more to the north than 3 out 5 of these G25 samples.

https://i.imgur.com/5psTtIf.png

So either all of these people are from that fringe and poorly-tested region, which is highly unlikely, or they're ancestrally from Eastern Montenegro. Not counting the one outlier sample out of the Montenegrins on this PCA, all of the other ones do strongly overlap with the Serbians so my guess should be correct.
All in all, Davidski really did a sloppy job on this one. I don't see why any Serb should pay him money to get (incorrectly) told they're Bosnian :picard1:

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 12:27 PM

or they're ancestrally from Eastern Montenegro

i think they are, check their relatives, there are some Albanian and Sandzak sounding names

and in the Montenegrin cluster 2 of them are in that south cluster typical for Montenegro, and 3 are more Slavic pulled, so they are genetically pretty much the same as Serbian Serbs

maybe Davidski doesn't care much about these small nations of ours so he just picked randomly

Peterski

09-25-2019, 03:05 PM

The ones close to the moldavian average and probably 2 that are close to the Romanian average are moldovans, while the 2 close to Lviv and Belorussia and the one that pulls east are not.

Yeah these 3 - JA8090639, JR6490623, DN1116786. The 2 Js are east slavs scoring 45% baltic and one of them also 30% north-atlantic. The D seems to be a mix of east-slav with gypsy, he scores almost 40% baltic and almost 10% south-asian. He's most likely from the north where they have east-slavs and gypsies living in the same communities/cities.

I confirm, JA8090639 looks like a mix of East Ukrainian + West Russian and JR6490623 like a mix of Russian-Polish.

These two can probably be reference samples for Transnistria, not Moldova "proper". Transnistria's Anthem is cool:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260768-Why-don-t-we-have-a-Transnistria-subforum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0t4XEYCFWM

Aspirin

09-25-2019, 03:34 PM

Romanian/Moldovan/youtube is this guy, he plots like Seya and he is from the same region i think

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0HzWeVfUgc8

This guy have many origins. From his "Moldavian" mother he have Jewish, Gagauz, Wallachian and Greek ancestry.

Seya

09-25-2019, 03:43 PM

i know, i thought Seya implied he plots diferently from Serbs because of his Montenegrin ancestry

No, i meant that’s his only known “foreign” ancestry. He’s not all that far away from the main cluster anyway. It depends of what u inherit from your parents. Maybe he inherited their most NW part of their dna. For example i’m more southern shifted than my mom, and she’s the one with some distant foreign ancestry.

Pribislav

09-25-2019, 03:46 PM

Medieval Montenegrins don't need to be identical to modern ones, and his Montenegrin ancestry is probably old. Northern Montenegro was probably very Slavic back than because Raška streched to that area.

Wrong.
Bosniensis has far East Herzegovinian Serb origin from Bileća area. His ancestors left Bileća in 15th century and moved to Usora in NE Bosnia. In 16th century his ancestors under the name Usorci Serbs moved from Usora to the Lika and later from Lika to Bihać.

Paternal line of Vlatko Vuković is also from Bileća, deeper origin is from Montenegro. Vlatko Vuković said this fact about his origin.

ixulescu

09-25-2019, 03:48 PM

One thing to note is that the initial Romanian samples are from 2 villages in the mountains. These are very specific populations, unlikely to be representative for urban Romanians.

Properly sample Bucharest, Iasi and Cluj and watch the Romanian cluster explode.

Jana

09-25-2019, 04:38 PM

Wrong.
Bosniensis has far East Herzegovinian Serb origin from Bileća area. His ancestors left Bileća in 15th century and moved to Usora in NE Bosnia. In 16th century his ancestors under the name Usorci Serbs moved from Usora to the Lika and later from Lika to Bihać.
Paternal line of Vlatko Vuković is also from Bileća, deeper origin is from Montenegro. Vlatko Vuković said this fact about his origin.

Do you want quotes from Bosniensis when he mentions Montenegrin ancestry ?
Point is that he isn't typical, Vlatko is.

Ford

09-25-2019, 04:40 PM

Do you want quotes from Bosniensis when he mentions Montenegrin ancestry ?
Point is that he isn't typical, Vlatko is.

Didn't he claim he had Gorani ancestry from his father´s side? Bosniensis I mean.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 04:50 PM

This guy have many origins. From his "Moldavian" mother he have Jewish, Gagauz, Wallachian and Greek ancestry.
maybe so many Moldavians have those admixtures that it's typical?
anyways one Moldavian cluster stretches from Gagauz/east Bulgarian to Ukraine, and there's the other cluster pulled towards the Weirdlookingfellow. i think the Moldavian mystery is solved.

https://i.imgur.com/2s9TOq9.png

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 05:00 PM

Jana

09-25-2019, 05:02 PM

Didn't he claim he had Gorani ancestry from his father´s side? Bosniensis I mean.

Yes, I totally forgot about that too. He is 1/4 Gorani.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 05:04 PM

I confirm, JA8090639 looks like a mix of East Ukrainian + West Russian and JR6490623 like a mix of Russian-Polish.

These two can probably be reference samples for Transnistria, not Moldova "proper". Transnistria's Anthem is cool:

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?260768-Why-don-t-we-have-a-Transnistria-subforum

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=V0t4XEYCFWM

the one who plots near Belarus has a relative with a Baltic name and a Latvian email (.lv)

Leto

09-25-2019, 05:10 PM

maybe so many Moldavians have those admixtures that it's typical?
Ukrainians and Russians made up 25% of the Moldovan SSR's population in 1959 and 27% in 1989. Given the small size of the country and the lack of religious segregation (as it's the case with Muslims and religious Jews for example) a certain degree of mixing is no surprise. See Moldovan Apricity members (not giving any names), they are even Russian speakers (despite them being Russophobic to some extent).
It is a typical Soviet-made republic (Soviet nation building).

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 05:44 PM

Do you want quotes from Bosniensis when he mentions Montenegrin ancestry ?
Point is that he isn't typical, Vlatko is.

in my Bosniak sample Vlatko is at the northeastern edge of the cluster

https://i.imgur.com/avulK9K.png

https://i.imgur.com/oH1A6Km.png

Aspirin

09-25-2019, 06:18 PM

maybe so many Moldavians have those admixtures that it's typical?

No, her grandmother is from Budjak, Ukraine, not even from today Republic. Her father is South Romanian from Teleorman. Budjak is the territory heavily colonised by Russians with other ethnicities after the expelling of Tatars from that region who was briged by Turks in 16-17 centuries after anexion of that territory by Ottoman Empire. In that region very few Moldavians live in general.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 06:20 PM

Inspired by this thread, I removed some Romanian outliers from regional averages (those ones which were far away from expected Romanian cluster).
Also I added to NE_Romania average those four Romanian Moldavians posted here.

Now Balkan clusters are nearly ideal. This red cross (user) is one of academic Romanian samples which were removed, see how far away this sample is located.
I hope no more Romanian frequencies for West Balkan and vice versa. But in Gedmatch calcs Romanian averages have such outliers still.

https://i.imgur.com/3FKrilo.png

old clusters
https://i.imgur.com/DnQVWlU.png

Dick

09-25-2019, 06:26 PM

WeirdLookingFellow

09-25-2019, 06:29 PM

Inspired by this thread, I removed some Romanian outliers from regional averages (those ones which were far away from expected Romanian cluster).
Also I added to NE_Romania average those four Romanian Moldavians posted here.

Now Balkan clusters are nearly ideal. This red cross (user) is one of academic Romanian samples which were removed, see how far away this sample is located.
I hope no more Romanian frequencies for West Balkan and vice versa.

Since I presume I'm an outlier, could you tell me where I plot on that map? Tell me if I need to pay

My GEDMatch kit is WY1644525.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 06:30 PM

How come the Macedonian is below the Greek vlach

Greek Vlach is just one sample from my customer (first I made report and then she told me it was her father, which is Vlach. He got quite high Romanian frequency btw). With more samples position should be better.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 06:40 PM

Since I presume I'm an outlier, could you tell me where I plot on that map? Tell me if I need to pay

My GEDMatch kit is WY1644525.

You are outlier:) It is not even Gagauz, because they plot on the SE. What the hell pulls you here?

https://i.imgur.com/hzUeVRm.png

Lucas

09-25-2019, 06:44 PM

Since I presume I'm an outlier, could you tell me where I plot on that map? Tell me if I need to pay

My GEDMatch kit is WY1644525.

In your signature you are: K13 56.9% Tuscan + 43.1% Ukrainian @ 4.02

On plot you really looks like that:) WEIRD:)

https://i.imgur.com/e6RyP7t.png

Mingle

09-25-2019, 06:45 PM

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 06:51 PM

You are outlier:) It is not even Gagauz, because they plot on the SE. What the hell pulls you here?

https://i.imgur.com/hzUeVRm.png

he's a weird plotting fellow. i think he could have extra Dacian (which plotted like Northwest Italians) admixture or extra admixture from Italic Roman colonists in Balkans. maybe there is a whole small region in Moldova where people are genetically like him.

WeirdLookingFellow

09-25-2019, 06:56 PM

In your signature you are: K13 56.9% Tuscan + 43.1% Ukrainian @ 4.02

On plot you really looks like that:) WEIRD:)

https://i.imgur.com/e6RyP7t.png

Thanks man. I have no idea what's pulling me there, I know I have no outside admixture, only rural people from Central-South Romanian Moldova and North Romanian Moldova. What vbnetkhio said might be true but I'm not from just one small pocket, as my gf is for example (just S. Romanian Moldova), which plots just a bit above the Romanian average. I'll be doing some further genealogical work to see if I got anything special but I doubt it.

Dick

09-25-2019, 07:00 PM

Greek Vlach is just one sample from my customer (first I made report and then she told me it was her father, which is Vlach. He got quite high Romanian frequency btw). With more samples position should be better.

I know who you’re talking about. Her father is very atypical for someone from Greece. He’s very Slavic admixed

Seya

09-25-2019, 07:01 PM

I think it’s about time for me to log off this forum forever

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 07:02 PM

That map of Shopluk is wrong. Here is a better one: https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c1/Torlak_dialects_map_en.png

Which dot is the Shop Serb btw?

Torlaks ands Shopi aren't the same. Torlaks live in Knjazevac and Belogradchik, but it was used as a kind of derogatory term for all southeast Serbs, and some Croatian linguist used it as a name for all southeast Serbian dialects.

on this very detailed map majority Shop and Torlak areas are together, in red
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0:S ._Srbija.pdf

and this is just Torlaks
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8#/media/%D0%94%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0:T orlaci.jpg

so CommonSenses map is more correct

WeirdLookingFellow

09-25-2019, 07:02 PM

I think it’s about time for me to log off this forum forever

How come:confused:

Mingle

09-25-2019, 07:03 PM

In your signature you are: K13 56.9% Tuscan + 43.1% Ukrainian @ 4.02

On plot you really looks like that:) WEIRD:)

https://i.imgur.com/e6RyP7t.png

By Western Serbians, are you referring to Serbs from Western Serbia or Prechani Serbs from west of the Drina?

By the way, similar to how you divided Romania, you should probably divide Croatia & Serbia as well.
Croatia could probably divided into the following: Dalmatia-Kvarner, Istria, Central Croatia, NW Croatia, Eastern Slavonia
Serbia could probably be divided into Western/Northern Serbia & Southern/Eastern Serbia.

(Serb and Croat members may have different/better divisions in mind but I'm pretty sure these divisions are good)

Austria should be divided too, Peterski probably has many kits from there.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 07:10 PM

I know who you’re talking about. Her father is very atypical for someone from Greece. He’s very Slavic admixed

She isn't Alexandra if you talked about her.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 07:13 PM

By Western Serbians, are you referring to Serbs from Western Serbia or Prechani Serbs from west of the Drina?

By the way, similar to how you divided Romania, you should probably divide Croatia & Serbia as well.
Croatia could probably divided into the following: Dalmatia-Kvarner, Istria, Central Croatia, NW Croatia, Eastern Slavonia
Serbia could probably be divided into Western/Northern Serbia & Southern/Eastern Serbia.

(Serb and Croat members may have different/better divisions in mind but I'm pretty sure these divisions are good)

Austria should be divided too, Peterski probably has many kits from there.

Yes, I know but I must find time to collect regional samples posted here and elswhere. And then check if they are really regional.

Seya

09-25-2019, 07:13 PM

How come:confused:

This is a place where people are trying to convince u that u’re not who u think u are only because u get 1-2% different dna than the “average”. We have 20-30 people tested from 24 million romanians and we have already an average. Everyone who stands out from this 20 samples is cut out....we test later other 50 and again we cut out the ones who are not in line with the same majority formed from only a few samples...and so on... after a life of being moldovian, with family from both sides being moldovians for generations, i found out i’m not moldovian anymore and i cannot call myself as such because of a few % difference on gedmatch. People are getting crazy here and i don’t wanna be part of this anymore.

Mingle

09-25-2019, 07:14 PM

Torlaks ands Shopi aren't the same. Torlaks live in Knjazevac and Belogradchik, but it was used as a kind of derogatory term for all southeast Serbs, and some Croatian linguist used it as a name for all southeast Serbian dialects.

on this very detailed map majority Shop and Torlak areas are together, in red
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%94%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0:S ._Srbija.pdf

and this is just Torlaks
https://sr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%D0%A2%D0%BE%D1%80%D0%BB%D0%B0%D1%86%D0%B8#/media/%D0%94%D0%B0%D1%82%D0%BE%D1%82%D0%B5%D0%BA%D0%B0:T orlaci.jpg

so CommonSenses map is more correctThe map you posted and the map CommonSense posted are by the same person - Jovan Cvijic.

I also thought that they were different terms originally but then I spoke to a Serb from Jablanica and he said people there consider themselves Shop. He was also a native speak of Torlakian (he's most likely the Shop Serb on the plot whose results I posted before). The map you and CS posted show that Jablanica is outside "Shopluk" while people from regions outside Cvijic's Shopluk consider themselves Shop, so I don't think Cvijic's map is correct.

I've also heard from a Bulgarian that Cvjic was a Serbian nationalist and he tried to push the boundaries of Shopluk eastwards to try to claim/dispute parts of Western Bulgaria. The Bulgarian user said that Shopluk included too much Bulgarian territory and too little Serbian territory. IIRC, he was from Western Bulgaria (of which a large portion is included as part of Shopluk).

Also, it makes sense for Shop identity and speaking Torlakian to be interconnected with one another. Because if they're distinct terms, then that means there are people that consider themselves only Shop, there are people that consider themselves only Torlak, and there are people that consider themselves both Torlak and Shop at the same time (since the map I posted and the map you & CS posted overlap). And that just doesn't make any sense.

Peterski

09-25-2019, 07:14 PM

How come the Macedonian is below the Greek vlach

It is magic.

Inspired by this thread, I removed (...) Romanian outliers from regional averages (...)

https://i.imgur.com/8DjxjX1.png

old clusters

https://i.imgur.com/DnQVWlU.png

http://www.reactiongifs.com/r/2013/10/tim-and-eric-mind-blown.gif

WeirdLookingFellow

09-25-2019, 07:19 PM

This is a place where people are trying to convince u that u’re not who u think u are only because u get 1-2% different dna than the “average”. We have 20-30 people tested from 24 million romanians and we have already an average. Everyone who stands out from this 20 samples is cut out....we test later other 50 and again we cut out the ones who are not in line with the same majority formed from only a few samples...and so on... after a life of being moldovian, with family from both sides being moldovians for generations, i found out i’m not moldovian anymore and i cannot call myself as such because of a few % difference on gedmatch. People are getting crazy here and i don’t wanna be part of this anymore.

It's not healthy to take this forum extremely seriously. I'm on a masters in data analytics at the moment so for me this is really fun and engaging. Unless you plot with Belarussians or have clear Jewish/Gypsy admixture, this won't tell you much apart from "you're somewhat special".

Lucas

09-25-2019, 07:23 PM

The map you posted and the map CommonSense posted are by the same person - Jovan Cvijic.

I've also heard from a Bulgarian that Cvjic was a Serbian nationalist and he tried to push the boundaries of Shopluk eastwards to try to claim/dispute parts of Western Bulgaria. e.

So what about Sofia in such case:)?

Leto

09-25-2019, 07:25 PM

This is a place where people are trying to convince u that u’re not who u think u are only because u get 1-2% different dna than the “average”. We have 20-30 people tested from 24 million romanians and we have already an average. Everyone who stands out from this 20 samples is cut out....we test later other 50 and again we cut out the ones who are not in line with the same majority formed from only a few samples...and so on... after a life of being moldovian, with family from both sides being moldovians for generations, i found out i’m not moldovian anymore and i cannot call myself as such because of a few % difference on gedmatch. People are getting crazy here and i don’t wanna be part of this anymore.
Several members are obsessed with deconstruction of everything and endless nitpicking. This person is not really Polish, that person is not really Romanian and so on and so forth. And the funny thing is that some of said people have literally nothing to do with the countries they're deconstructing. Just say screw those suckers :cool:

Mingle

09-25-2019, 07:36 PM

So what about Sofia in such case:)?The map I posted doesn't show Sofia as part of the Torlakian-speaking area, so I guess it's not part of the actual Shopluk region. But I don't have any details on it. What I said in the last post is all the info I have.

Lucas

09-25-2019, 07:39 PM

The map I posted doesn't show Sofia as part of the Torlakian-speaking area, so I guess it's not part of the actual Shopluk region. But I don't have any details on it. What I said in the last post is all the info I have.

I saw old Balkan ethnic map where western Bulgaria, even with Sofia was part of mixed Serbian-Bulgarian area. I can't find it now.

pelikarski

09-25-2019, 07:43 PM

I saw old Balkan ethnic map where western Bulgaria, even with Sofia was part of mixed Serbian-Bulgarian area. I can't find it now.

There are more old ethnic Balkan maps showing parts of Eastern Serbia as Bulgarian ethnic territories than the reverse :)

BTW I have seen maps of Serbian claims that everything to Plovdiv is Serbian. So..

Lucas

09-25-2019, 07:43 PM

There are more old ethnic Balkan maps showing parts of Eastern Serbia as Bulgarian ethnic territories than the reverse :)

To be honest, this is true:)

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 07:45 PM

This is a place where people are trying to convince u that u’re not who u think u are only because u get 1-2% different dna than the “average”. We have 20-30 people tested from 24 million romanians and we have already an average. Everyone who stands out from this 20 samples is cut out....we test later other 50 and again we cut out the ones who are not in line with the same majority formed from only a few samples...and so on... after a life of being moldovian, with family from both sides being moldovians for generations, i found out i’m not moldovian anymore and i cannot call myself as such because of a few % difference on gedmatch. People are getting crazy here and i don’t wanna be part of this anymore.

it's just one guy, Aspirin. why take him so seriously. i found that guy from your region who plots like you

Aspirin

09-25-2019, 07:48 PM

And the funny thing is that some of said people have literally nothing to do with the countries they're deconstructing. Just say screw those suckers :cool:

Lol, I am pretty much connected genetically and historically to both RM and Romania Moldova since i live on the border and I have ancestry from other side, part of my ancestry from my paternal side come from Romanian territory. Nothing wrong to deconstruct something what happened to be realy fake.

Impaler

09-25-2019, 07:48 PM

You are outlier:) It is not even Gagauz, because they plot on the SE. What the hell pulls you here?

I bet I would be an alien on this map. :icon_biggrin:

Dick

09-25-2019, 07:50 PM

So what about Sofia in such case:)?

Sofia is ancient Serb city.

Moje ime

09-25-2019, 07:57 PM

So what about Sofia in such case:)?

On a serious note, there is a claim everything up to Sofia is Serbian because those Bulgarians from western Bulgaria celebrate Slava, which is typical only for Serbs. Rest of Bulgarians don't celebrate it.

Pribislav

09-25-2019, 08:01 PM

On a serious note, there is a claim everything up to Sofia is Serbian because those Bulgarians from western Bulgaria celebrate Slava, which is typical only for Serbs. Rest of Bulgarians don't celebrate it.

In western Bulgaria (Bulgarian Shopluk) Slava is banned in 1879 by Bulgarian government because it was associated with Serbs.

MercifulServant

09-25-2019, 08:01 PM

Sofia is ancient Serb city.

Tako je brate srbine!!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yv2pEF-RRFA

Lucas

09-25-2019, 08:03 PM

In western Bulgaria (Bulgarian Shopluk) Slava is banned in 1879 by Bulgarian governmant because it was asociate with Serbs.

What is that? Some kind of celebration?

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 08:04 PM

The map you posted and the map CommonSense posted are by the same person - Jovan Cvijic.

I also thought that they were different terms originally but then I spoke to a Serb from Jablanica and he said people there consider themselves Shop. He was also a native speak of Torlakian (he's most likely the Shop Serb on the plot whose results I posted before). The map you and CS posted show that Jablanica is outside "Shopluk" while people from regions outside Cvijic's Shopluk consider themselves Shop, so I don't think Cvijic's map is correct.

I've also heard from a Bulgarian that Cvjic was a Serbian nationalist and he tried to push the boundaries of Shopluk eastwards to try to claim/dispute parts of Western Bulgaria. The Bulgarian user said that Shopluk included too much Bulgarian territory and too little Serbian territory. IIRC, he was from Western Bulgaria (of which a large portion is included as part of Shopluk).

Also, it makes sense for Shop identity and speaking Torlakian to be interconnected with one another. Because if they're distinct terms, then that means there are people that consider themselves only Shop, there are people that consider themselves only Torlak, and there are people that consider themselves both Torlak and Shop at the same time (since the map I posted and the map you & CS posted overlap). And that just doesn't make any sense.

that sample you asked about is in the blue circle
https://i.imgur.com/wTVZo5s.png

on Cvijić's map in Jablanica there are Shopi, Dinaric(Montenegrin) settlers, Kosovo and Metohija settlers, and Morava-Vardar Serbs(pretty much the same people as Fyrom Macedonians i believe)

Shops don't speak Torlakian, they speak Shop. Torlaks speak Torlakian and they live in a region called Torlak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZpdRzV3wA

gathering of Torlaks in village Chuprene, Bulgaria. they invited Serbs from Zajecar and Knjazevac to the gathering, not from Nis or Vranje

grouping Torlaks,Shops,Kosovo-Metohija settlers and Morava-Vardar settlers all together as "Torlaks" or also as "Shopovi" instead of "Shopi"and speaking "Torlakian" was started by the Montenegrin and Herzegovian Serbs 200 years ago as a derogatory term.

"Torlaci je regionalni naziv[1] koji se upotrebljava za stanovnike nastanjene u istočnoj Srbiji i severozapadnoj Bugarskoj. U 19. veku Torlak je Srbin sa juga; izraz kojim se podcenjuje — označava pripadnik nacije sa periferije srpstva." (idk if you understand Serbian i can translate it for you if you don't)

Moje ime

09-25-2019, 08:04 PM

What is that? Some kind of celebration?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?276384-Slava-celebration-of-family-saint-patron%92s-day-Serbia

Pribislav

09-25-2019, 08:07 PM

What is that? Some kind of celebration?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slava

Exclusively Serbian custom, broughted to Chtistianity from paganism.

Insuperable

09-25-2019, 08:08 PM

https://i.imgur.com/sejUatm.png
the purple sticks are Slovenians, and the orange + are Hungarians, but these are old samples, not the ones from this thread
you could plot the new Slovenians and Hungarians if you are on the computer? it's just this plot https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm , post their xy coordinates here

I know how it is done. I would like to see clusters. It is time consuming and since you are already doing all this I thought you might be for it. Nvm.

vbnetkhio

09-25-2019, 08:10 PM

I know how it is done. I would like to see clusters. It is time consuming and since you are already doing all this I thought you might be for it. Nvm.

i'll get to them if nobody else does it. i'm plotting the Greeks now

pelikarski

09-25-2019, 08:23 PM

In western Bulgaria (Bulgarian Shopluk) Slava is banned in 1879 by Bulgarian government because it was associated with Serbs.

Almost all Western and Russian travelers in the Ottoman empire noted that the Pomoravie and Timoshko are predominantly Bulgarian.
Bertrandon de la Broquière talks about Serbian and Bulgarian Morava, and this is what separates both states
https://i.imgur.com/UAgSODS.png
https://books.google.bg/books?id=FQwukvsKY-AC&pg=PA86&dq=Bertrandon+de+la+Broqui%C3%A8re+morava&hl=bg&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQi-PL5OzkAhUFtYsKHWhQCZEQ6AEIODAC#v=onepage&q=Bertrandon%20de%20la%20Broqui%C3%A8re%20morava&f=false

Mingle

09-25-2019, 08:26 PM

On a serious note, there is a claim everything up to Sofia is Serbian because those Bulgarians from western Bulgaria celebrate Slava, which is typical only for Serbs. Rest of Bulgarians don't celebrate it.They also speak ekavian there similar to Serbia (eastern Bulgaria speaks yakavian) if I'm not mistaken. But it's probably just part of their linguistic diversity (like how some Serbs speak ijekavian). However, I don't recall seeing any maps showing that region as Serb. I'm interested in what Bulgarians have to say about the presence of Slava there.

Pribislav

09-25-2019, 08:33 PM

Almost all Western and Russian travelers in the Ottoman empire noted that the Pomoravie and Timoshko are predominantly Bulgarian.
Bertrandon de la Broquière talks about Serbian and Bulgarian Morava, and this is what separates both states
https://i.imgur.com/UAgSODS.png
https://books.google.bg/books?id=FQwukvsKY-AC&pg=PA86&dq=Bertrandon+de+la+Broqui%C3%A8re+morava&hl=bg&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiQi-PL5OzkAhUFtYsKHWhQCZEQ6AEIODAC#v=onepage&q=Bertrandon%20de%20la%20Broqui%C3%A8re%20morava&f=false

Russian imperial politic in 19th century in the Balkan was creatiaon of Great Bulgaria from Dobruja to Shkoder and from Thessaly to Morava. Russian imperialictic view from 19th century is no relevant. You still dream Russian imperialictic project of San Stefano Big Bulgaria, is not it?

Dick

09-25-2019, 08:35 PM

Mingle

09-25-2019, 08:37 PM

that sample you asked about is in the blue circle
https://i.imgur.com/wTVZo5s.png

on Cvijić's map in Jablanica there are Shopi, Dinaric(Montenegrin) settlers, Kosovo and Metohija settlers, and Morava-Vardar Serbs(pretty much the same people as Fyrom Macedonians i believe)

Shops don't speak Torlakian, they speak Shop. Torlaks speak Torlakian and they live in a region called Torlak.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KGZpdRzV3wA

gathering of Torlaks in village Chuprene, Bulgaria. they invited Serbs from Zajecar and Knjazevac to the gathering, not from Nis or Vranje

grouping Torlaks,Shops,Kosovo-Metohija settlers and Morava-Vardar settlers all together as "Torlaks" or also as "Shopovi" instead of "Shopi"and speaking "Torlakian" was started by the Montenegrin and Herzegovian Serbs 200 years ago as a derogatory term.

"Torlaci je regionalni naziv[1] koji se upotrebljava za stanovnike nastanjene u istočnoj Srbiji i severozapadnoj Bugarskoj. U 19. veku Torlak je Srbin sa juga; izraz kojim se podcenjuje — označava pripadnik nacije sa periferije srpstva." (idk if you understand Serbian i can translate it for you if you don't)Okay, well that's what the Shop guy told me (that they're synonyms). He said most people (not just his family) from his region use the word Shop instead of Torlak even though Cvijic didn't include Jablanica as part of Shopluk.

Anyways, the word Torlak is of Turkish etymology. Do Torlaks have a native Slavic name for themselves that they would have used before the adopted a Turkish word for themselves after the Ottomans' expansion to the Balkans?

Also, since the maps of Shopluk and the Torlakian-speaking area overlap, is it possible to be simultaneously both Shop and Torlak (in the region they overlap)? They're distinct terms according to what you said so it shouldn't be possible, so I'm wondering if you can clarify this part.