Why do Iberians have a little extra non-caucasoid then other euros?

[MercifulServant]

Ive noticed this with some Iberian gedmatch results. For some reason they typically get more Non caucasoid elements then most other European groups (excluding Northeast europe). Is there a reason for this? What is the source of this Admixture?

[Joso]

neolithic farmers

[MercifulServant]

neolithic farmers

Cant be. The closest population to Neolithic Farmers are Sardinians and they are some of the most caucasoid people on the planet.

[Joso]

Cant be. The closest population to Neolithic Farmers are Sardinians and they are some of the most caucasoid people on the planet.

ok, i thought you meant non-european

[SharpFork]

I've no idea, the East to West increase in SSAfrican admixture is also curious, obviously there is also a North to South increase but it's virtually matched by the former gradient, meaning regions like Galicia have as much African as Murcia if I recall correctly.

[Calpurnius]

Depends on the calculator I guess and what you call non-caucasian. North Africa is likely the culprit, I don't think Iberians have excess African related ancestry that isn't included in their north African ancestry.

[21993]

Indirect Negroid DNA from Moorish

[SharpFork]

Depends on the calculator I guess and what you call non-caucasian. North Africa is likely the culprit, I don't think Iberians have excess African related ancestry that isn't included in their north African ancestry.
In Portugal there must be, Subsaharan mtDNA has been detected in sizeable amounts in some places.


Indirect Negroid DNA from Moorish
Why is there so much of it in Galicia though?

[Genetic]

Depends on the calculator I guess and what you call non-caucasian. North Africa is likely the culprit, I don't think Iberians have excess African related ancestry that isn't included in their north African ancestry.

Some Portuguese members (like Pedro Ruben) score between 3~4% SSA in different calculators. That's not normal for other Europeans.

[Calpurnius]

Some Portuguese members (like Pedro Ruben) score between 3~4% SSA in different calculators. That's not normal for other Europeans.
I think the calculator matters though. For instance if you have a north African cluster that is supposed to capture the main north African ancestral component, that doesn't mean the north African population that admixed into Iberia was simply 100% of this. The most likely source for north African admixture in Iberia is reasonably Morocco, and compared to this component Moroccans themselves may score additional SSA, which as a consequence may show up in Iberians too. So what I'm saying is, this SSA that shows up may in fact have been part of whatever north African population admixed into Iberia.

Running a simple model for Iberians with European sources and Moroccan_North+Dinka/Yoruba, no excess SSA seems needed, though of course the academic samples especially for Portugal may not be fully representative.

[Gaditanian]

Define extra

Compare with other euros

If not, your argument is invalid

[Nassbean]

In Portugal there must be, Subsaharan mtDNA has been detected in sizeable amounts in some places.


Why is there so much of it in Galicia though?

a lot of moriscos went to galicia and during the 8th century some berbers decided to separate themselves from the arab elite (revolt) and converted to christianity ( majority went to galicia )

[Abdelnour]

Do we have ancient Iberians to compare to? Most ancient European samples have small amounts of SSA.

[SharpFork]

Define extra

Compare with other euros

If not, your argument is invalid
Let's stop denying reality, just compare averages between Iberians and others on Eurogenes 13k, Iberians have SSA admixture when others do not.

a lot of moriscos went to galicia and during the 8th century some berbers decided to separate themselves from the arab elite (revolt) and converted to christianity ( majority went to galicia )
I have hard time believing this alone would make Galicia this much SSA, especially considering it's more than Valencia, Aragon, Andalusia. If you consider SSAfrican+ North-East African the only regions that approaches is are those to the west(Extremadure, Castille y Leon and Portugal too) the type of argument you put forward has little explanatory power by itself, especially when we just compared it to regions that were more influenced not only by Arabs and Berbers but also by previous North African influence coming from Carthaginians and yet is not the regions where Muslim communities survived longer that have more SSA.

[21993]

In Portugal there must be, Subsaharan mtDNA has been detected in sizeable amounts in some places.


Why is there so much of it in Galicia though?

Most probably Moors arrived in Iberian peninsula from its western side. Since Galicia in one of the western most region of Spain, Galicians might have more SSA DNA

[luc2112]

3% from old SSA (not SSA-Bantu), Europe is 1% old SSA. Some Spaniards are Caucasians with type-III skin or caucasian moor Admixture.

3% SSA unrelated by they are more "tan" in the south.

[Gaditanian]

Let's stop denying reality, just compare averages between Iberians and others on Eurogenes 13k, Iberians have SSA admixture when others do not.
.

Of course Iberian has a little extra of non caucasoid, but in the same % of the rest of european, the only difererence is that people of south of europe are natural mixed with Africans, and people from east and north europe with mongols ( huns, magyars, samis, tartars, turks... )

[Nassbean]

Let's stop denying reality, just compare averages between Iberians and others on Eurogenes 13k, Iberians have SSA admixture when others do not.

I have hard time believing this alone would make Galicia this much SSA, especially considering it's more than Valencia, Aragon, Andalusia. If you consider SSAfrican+ North-East African the only regions that approaches is are those to the west(Extremadure, Castille y Leon and Portugal too) the type of argument you put forward has little explanatory power by itself, especially when we just compared it to regions that were more influenced not only by Arabs and Berbers but also by previous North African influence coming from Carthaginians and yet is not the regions where Muslim communities survived longer that have more SSA.

Unfortunately i lost the reference of this but it's real (they also received a lot of morisco refugees) and I think you forget that south iberians were already heavily mixed with NAs it's just that they have been replaced by northern settlers as you can see :

https://i.imgur.com/iDKCjQS.jpg

[Adamastor]

I was also wondering about this. It must be some old stuff that is read as SSA by calculators. Probably some kind of ancient North African type of DNA that is included in the ''Iberian'' cluster in commercial tests.

I noticed this trend looking at Portuguese and Spanish kits + looking at Brazilian results with some Iberian ancestry. I've seen some Brazilian guys with Iberian ancestry who scored around 8% SSA on commercial tests (which would be their ''real'' Sub-Saharan ancestry from African slaves) and in some cases they almost doubled after uploading to GEDmatch.

I've seen some Iberians with up to 5-6% SSA + Northeast African.

[Ruggery]

Because of its proximity to Africa.

[SharpFork]

Of course Iberian has a little extra of non caucasoid, but in the same % of the rest of european, the only difererence is that people of south of europe are natural mixed with Africans, and people from east and north europe with mongols ( huns, magyars, samis, tartars, turks... )
You make it seem like most of Europe is mixed with East Eurasian, but that's false, only people in Eastern Europe or North-East Fenno-Scandia have such levels of non-West Eurasian admixture, Spain is special on that front.

[SharpFork]

I was also wondering about this. It must be some old stuff that is read as SSA by calculators. Probably some kind of ancient North African type of DNA that is included in the ''Iberian'' cluster in commercial tests.

I noticed this trend looking at Portuguese and Spanish kits + looking at Brazilian results with some Iberian ancestry. I've seen some Brazilian guys with Iberian ancestry who scored around 8% SSA on commercial tests (which would be their ''real'' Sub-Saharan ancestry from African slaves) and in some cases they almost doubled after uploading to GEDmatch.

I've seen some Iberians with up to 5-6% SSA + Northeast African.
So you think North Africans themselves have less actual SSA admixture than Gedmatch says?

[Adamastor]

So you think North Africans themselves have less actual SSA admixture than Gedmatch says?

Yes. They do have a good amount of ''real'' SSA but much less than what GEDmatch calculators give them. I've seen some North Africans scoring around 25% SSA without looking even slightly Sub-Saharan. Certainly part of their Sub-Saharan affinity is some type of ancient DNA (and there are actual academic studies saying this).

I suppose ''true'' SSA admixture in North Africans is somewhere in between 5-15% depending on the region and the person. GEDmatch is just an approximative tool developed by amateurs, it has many flaws.

[Gaditanian]

You make it seem like most of Europe is mixed with East Eurasian, but that's false, only people in Eastern Europe or North-East Fenno-Scandia have such levels of non-West Eurasian admixture, Spain is special on that front.

You read, what you want to read.

I have said clear, that the amount of non caucasoid heritage in Iberians goes in the same way that the non caucasoid heritage of north & east european.

Iberian can be 2-5 % non caucasoid by SSA, but north & east european are in the same % with mongols.

Examples:

Swedish 2.8 % mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.94
2 Baltic 32.4
3 West_Med 8.64
4 West_Asian 4.61
5 Siberian 1.64
6 South_Asian 1.24
7 Amerindian 1.17
8 Sub-Saharan 1.11
9 East_Med 0.77
10 Red_Sea 0.36
11 Oceanian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 2.2
2 Norwegian 4.98
3 North_Swedish 5.48
4 North_German 6.39
5 Danish 6.61
6 North_Dutch 6.91
7 Orcadian 8.7
8 Irish 9.34
9 West_Scottish 10.02
10 Southeast_English 10.6
11 Southwest_English 11.76
12 East_German 11.95
13 South_Dutch 12.97
14 Austrian 13.14
15 West_German 13.32
16 Southwest_Finnish 13.57
17 Hungarian 16.42
18 South_Polish 18.16
19 French 19.19
20 Finnish 19.31


Norwegian 2.6 % Mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 48.68
2 Baltic 30.23
3 West_Med 9.21
4 West_Asian 5.43
5 South_Asian 2.24
6 Amerindian 1.32
7 Siberian 1.29
8 East_Med 1.03
9 Oceanian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 2.04
2 Norwegian 3.36
3 Danish 4.55
4 North_German 4.77
5 North_Dutch 4.99
6 Orcadian 6.71
7 Irish 7.23
8 North_Swedish 7.46
9 West_Scottish 7.96
10 Southeast_English 8.67
11 Southwest_English 9.82
12 South_Dutch 11.51
13 West_German 11.93
14 East_German 12.2
15 Austrian 13.04
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.65
17 Hungarian 16.71
18 French 17.75
19 South_Polish 19.5
20 Polish 21.06

German 2.6 % Mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.88
2 Baltic 25.29
3 West_Med 16.2
4 West_Asian 9.65
5 East_Med 9.09
6 Amerindian 1.52
7 Red_Sea 0.9
8 East_Asian 0.7
9 Siberian 0.39
10 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 5.37
2 West_German 7.51
3 Hungarian 7.59
4 East_German 7.71
5 South_Dutch 8.98
6 Serbian 9.89
7 French 10.69
8 North_German 12.38
9 Croatian 12.43
10 Moldavian 12.59
11 Romanian 12.82
12 Southeast_English 14.25
13 Danish 14.77
14 North_Dutch 14.84
15 Orcadian 15.51
16 Swedish 15.71
17 Bulgarian 15.76
18 Southwest_English 15.94
19 Irish 16.34
20 Norwegian 16.4

[SharpFork]

You read, what you want to read.

I have said clear, that the amount of non caucasoid heritage in Iberians goes in the same way that the non caucasoid heritage of north & east european.

Iberian can be 2-5 % non caucasoid by SSA, but north & east european are in the same % with mongols.

You literally cherrypick single results when in actuality Germans have 0.85% in East Eurasian+periphery admixture(Oceanian, Amerindian, East Asian and Siberian) which is well within noise range considering the many groups used. Norwegian and Swedes do have 2-3% East Eurasian admixute on average but this is because of Sami and Finnic admixed northern individuals, southern ones have less. Also people in France, Germany, Poland, British Isles, half of Italy or the Balkans don't have this amount of non-Caucasoid ancestry on average.

But sure take fringe cases and use them to generalize the entirety of non-Iberian Europe just to cope for some results that might not even signal actual historical Subsaharan ancestry.

[Calpurnius]

I think many of these old calculators may mistake part of Iberomaurusian's so called "deep" ancestry(which is a relatively recent find) with modern SSA. In fact, in the paper about Dzudzuana, Mbuti itself is used as a proxy for deep ancestry, because that's how these calculators tend to work.

[Leto]

You read, what you want to read.

I have said clear, that the amount of non caucasoid heritage in Iberians goes in the same way that the non caucasoid heritage of north & east european.

Iberian can be 2-5 % non caucasoid by SSA, but north & east european are in the same % with mongols.

Examples:

Swedish 2.8 % mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 47.94
2 Baltic 32.4
3 West_Med 8.64
4 West_Asian 4.61
5 Siberian 1.64
6 South_Asian 1.24
7 Amerindian 1.17
8 Sub-Saharan 1.11
9 East_Med 0.77
10 Red_Sea 0.36
11 Oceanian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 2.2
2 Norwegian 4.98
3 North_Swedish 5.48
4 North_German 6.39
5 Danish 6.61
6 North_Dutch 6.91
7 Orcadian 8.7
8 Irish 9.34
9 West_Scottish 10.02
10 Southeast_English 10.6
11 Southwest_English 11.76
12 East_German 11.95
13 South_Dutch 12.97
14 Austrian 13.14
15 West_German 13.32
16 Southwest_Finnish 13.57
17 Hungarian 16.42
18 South_Polish 18.16
19 French 19.19
20 Finnish 19.31


Norwegian 2.6 % Mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 48.68
2 Baltic 30.23
3 West_Med 9.21
4 West_Asian 5.43
5 South_Asian 2.24
6 Amerindian 1.32
7 Siberian 1.29
8 East_Med 1.03
9 Oceanian 0.57

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Swedish 2.04
2 Norwegian 3.36
3 Danish 4.55
4 North_German 4.77
5 North_Dutch 4.99
6 Orcadian 6.71
7 Irish 7.23
8 North_Swedish 7.46
9 West_Scottish 7.96
10 Southeast_English 8.67
11 Southwest_English 9.82
12 South_Dutch 11.51
13 West_German 11.93
14 East_German 12.2
15 Austrian 13.04
16 Southwest_Finnish 15.65
17 Hungarian 16.71
18 French 17.75
19 South_Polish 19.5
20 Polish 21.06

German 2.6 % Mongol

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 35.88
2 Baltic 25.29
3 West_Med 16.2
4 West_Asian 9.65
5 East_Med 9.09
6 Amerindian 1.52
7 Red_Sea 0.9
8 East_Asian 0.7
9 Siberian 0.39
10 Oceanian 0.39

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Austrian 5.37
2 West_German 7.51
3 Hungarian 7.59
4 East_German 7.71
5 South_Dutch 8.98
6 Serbian 9.89
7 French 10.69
8 North_German 12.38
9 Croatian 12.43
10 Moldavian 12.59
11 Romanian 12.82
12 Southeast_English 14.25
13 Danish 14.77
14 North_Dutch 14.84
15 Orcadian 15.51
16 Swedish 15.71
17 Bulgarian 15.76
18 Southwest_English 15.94
19 Irish 16.34
20 Norwegian 16.4
Lol, you must be stupid or a troll. Mongols are an ethnicity, since when do the Amerindians have something to do with the Mongols? Scandinavians have ZERO Mongolian ancestry. Even in me as a part North Russian person it's mostly Uralic/Finno-Ugric stuff. Not to mention that no European has any actual native American ancestry. It's just an Ancient North Eurasian signal if not noise. GEDmatch calcs may be fun to play with for a while but they haven't been updated for years and have varying degrees of inaccuracy.

[Leto]

You literally cherrypick single results when in actuality Germans have 0.85% in East Eurasian+periphery admixture(Oceanian, Amerindian, East Asian and Siberian) which is well within noise range considering the many groups used. Norwegian and Swedes do have 2-3% East Eurasian admixute on average but this is because of Sami and Finnic admixed northern individuals, southern ones have less. Also people in France, Germany, Poland, British Isles, half of Italy or the Balkans don't have this amount of non-Caucasoid ancestry on average.

But sure take fringe cases and use them to generalize the entirety of non-Iberian Europe just to cope for some results that might not even signal actual historical Subsaharan ancestry.
GEDmatch has a significant margin of error. Sometimes "noise" is well above 1 percent. Other times one component may take some from another one, especially if it's a minor percentage and the components are relatively close to each other.
My own case: father is 50% Baltic, mother is 48% and I'm only 45.9% or so.

[Adamm]

Yes. They do have a good amount of ''real'' SSA but much less than what GEDmatch calculators give them. I've seen some North Africans scoring around 25% SSA without looking even slightly Sub-Saharan. Certainly part of their Sub-Saharan affinity is some type of ancient DNA (and there are actual academic studies saying this).

I suppose ''true'' SSA admixture in North Africans is somewhere in between 5-15% depending on the region and the person. GEDmatch is just an approximative tool developed by amateurs, it has many flaws.

Someone explained the following to me about SSA within North Africa:

The van de Loosdrecht study 'strictly' used modern subsaharan west Africans 'Yoruba' as a best fit admixture reference, not east Africans since all ancient subsaharan simples weren't anywhere as a good proxy for the psedu-ssa taforalt was giving him : ''One complication is the presence of sub-Saharan African ancestry in Taforalt, for which the relationship with much later Holocene ancient and present-day African groups is not understood. To simplify our task, we performed admixture modeling without explicitly characterizing the relationship of the sub-Saharan ancestry in Taforalt with various sub-Saharan African ancestries in present-day populations.'' ''This suggests that sub-Saharan Africans, most notably West Africans, share ancestry with Taforalt beyond what can be explained by their Natufian-like ancestry.'' -this was later resolved by laziradis & Reich 2018 in more accurate reverse admixture modelling which included recently sequenced caucus dzudzuana (carrying same IBM U6 mtdna) pops and a divergent local ancestral north African deep populations / component basal to basal-eurasians, hence the authors stated : ''We finally show that the Dzudzuana population contributed the majority of the ancestry of post-Ice Age people in the Near East, North Africa, and even parts of Europe, thereby becoming the largest single contributor of ancestry of all present-day West Eurasians.'' ''Moreover, our model predicts that West Africans (represented by Yoruba) had 12.5±1.1% ancestry from a Taforalt related group rather than Taforalt having ancestry from an unknown Sub-Saharan African source; this may have mediated the limited Neanderthal admixture present in West Africans. An advantage of our model is that it allows for a local North African component in the ancestry of Taforalt, rather than deriving them exclusively from Levantine and Sub-Saharan sources."

Adding further details about summary of the cambridge study ''instead of specifying gene flow from the ancestors of Natufians into the ancestors of Taforalt as originally reported, we infer gene flow in the reverse direction (into Natufians). The Neolithic population from Morocco, closely related to Taforalt17 is also consistent with being descended from the source of this gene flow, and appears to have no admixture from the Levantine Neolithic (Supplementary Information section 3). If our model is correct, Epipaleolithic Natufians trace part of their ancestry to North Africa, consistent with morphological and archaeological studies that indicate a spread of morphological features22 and artifacts from North Africa into the Near East. Such a scenario would also explain the presence of Y-chromosome haplogroup E in the Natufians and Levantine farmers, a common link between the Levant and Africa.''

[Adamastor]

GEDmatch has a significant margin of error. Sometimes "noise" is well above 1 percent. Other times one component may take some from another one, especially if it's a minor percentage and the components are relatively close to each other.
My own case: father is 50% Baltic, mother is 48% and I'm only 45.9% or so.

I agree entirely. GEDmatch calculators are seriously outdated, they are not an ''extremely accurate'' portray of one's ancestry. They also lack tons of samples from many different populations and for that reason many of their admixture calculators could mistake one thing for another.

Iberian SSA is mostly Iberomaurusian stuff being read as SSA. That's why almost all Brazilian results I've seen with Iberian ancestry and minor SSA (5-10%, what would be their real African slave ancestry) on 23andme got almost double digits SSA in all GEDmatch calculators (I have more than 30 23andme results + kits to show this pattern).

[Leto]

I agree entirely. GEDmatch calculators are seriously outdated, they are not an ''extremely accurate'' portray of one's ancestry. They also lack tons of samples from many different populations and for that reason many of their admixture calculators could mistake one thing for another.

Iberian SSA is mostly Iberomaurusian stuff being read as SSA. That's why almost all Brazilian results I've seen with Iberian ancestry and minor SSA (5-10%, what would be their real African slave ancestry) on 23andme got almost double digits SSA in all GEDmatch calculators (I have more than 30 23andme results + kits to show this pattern).
Perhaps so. I can't say much about Iberians. But if the actual Moors weren't like modern Moroccans for the most part but more European racially, then modern Iberians should logically be even less NA than the Moors.

[Adamastor]

Perhaps so. I can't say much about Iberians. But if the actual Moors weren't like modern Moroccans for the most part but more European racially, then modern Iberians should logically be even less NA than the Moors.

The SSA-like ancestry found in Iberians is probably some Neolithic stuff related to the Ibero-Maurusian culture. The North African admixture (i.e. the non-SSA North African, ''Northwest African'') is certainly post-Roman though. Since it's more present in Galicians, Portuguese, Asturians and Extremadurans I assume it to be mostly from Roman North African soldiers or NA settlers in the Roman period (the aforementioned regions were the main Roman territories in Iberia).

North African in Iberia is likely a mix of small amounts of pre-Islamic + Moor influences.

[Leto]

What race were the Ibero-Maurusians? I doubt they were predominantly West Eurasian, why would they have been so?

[Calpurnius]

What race were the Ibero-Maurusians? I doubt they were predominantly West Eurasian, why would they have been so?
if we do consider Dzudzuana caucasus foragers as 100% west Eurasians(which I think is appropriate), then according to the main tree model in that paper, you could consider them at least ~55% west Eurasian, the rest being this "ancestral north African" ancestry which can't be considered "west Eurasian" in any meaningful sense, but is also not exactly "African" in the modern sense
that's the main result, and makes sense as there is a mtDNA link, that is, mtDNA U6, going from paleolithic Romania, to one of these Dzudzuana foragers, to Taforalt and modern NW Africans

[Roy]

Depends on the calculator I guess and what you call non-caucasian. North Africa is likely the culprit, I don't think Iberians have excess African related ancestry that isn't included in their north African ancestry.

What about slaves being assimilated?

[Calpurnius]

What about slaves being assimilated?
Which slaves in particular? It may very well be the case for specific individuals, but I'd expect such cases to be sparse and not show up in the average for Iberians as a whole. May be true for peoples of some villages while not for others.

I tried running all the individual G25 samples from Spain and Portugal with a simple model using Euro sources+Moroccan_north+Dinka, and indeed while most get 0 Dinka some individuals do get as high as 1.4% Dinka. Using Yoruba gives similar results.


Target
Distance
CZE_Hallstatt_Bylany
Dinka
Iberia_MN
IRL_BA
Italian_Abruzzo
Moroccan_North
WHG


Spanish_Alacant:ALE005
0.01546064
14.2
1.0
23.8
31.8
29.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Alacant:ALE009
0.02520562
0.0
0.0
28.0
39.0
29.2
3.8
0.0


Spanish_Alacant:CAR257
0.02565067
21.0
0.0
14.8
21.4
37.0
5.8
0.0


Spanish_Alacant:MAS064
0.02826303
11.2
1.4
23.8
29.0
30.4
4.2
0.0


Spanish_Alacant:NAC135
0.02625193
1.8
0.0
28.4
39.8
19.8
10.2
0.0


Spanish_Alacant:SLA017
0.01716178
0.0
0.0
33.8
30.8
30.8
4.6
0.0


Spanish_Andalucia:HG01619
0.01711570
0.0
0.0
24.4
34.0
38.2
3.4
0.0


Spanish_Andalucia:HG01620
0.02746329
25.8
0.0
16.6
16.8
33.2
7.6
0.0


Spanish_Andalucia:HG01623
0.01547108
16.4
0.4
24.8
18.4
32.0
8.0
0.0


Spanish_Aragon:HG01673
0.01779022
0.0
0.0
28.8
41.0
26.8
3.4
0.0


Spanish_Aragon:HG01675
0.02151560
13.8
0.0
29.6
31.0
18.8
6.8
0.0


Spanish_Aragon:HG01676
0.02409315
21.0
0.0
31.6
22.4
24.6
0.4
0.0


Spanish_Aragon:HG01678
0.03846830
15.0
0.0
25.2
25.8
30.4
3.6
0.0


Spanish_Asturias:Asturias1
0.03082849
35.2
0.0
21.8
17.4
14.8
10.8
0.0


Spanish_Baleares:HG01613
0.02183502
0.0
0.0
23.2
36.2
39.8
0.8
0.0


Spanish_Baleares:HG01615
0.01312375
17.4
1.2
24.2
22.4
34.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Baleares:HG01625
0.01976610
24.6
0.0
17.6
19.2
34.2
4.4
0.0


Spanish_Barcelones:COD147
0.03250050
31.0
0.0
19.2
28.4
15.8
5.6
0.0


Spanish_Barcelones:GUS040
0.02137996
27.6
0.0
24.4
19.2
28.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Barcelones:GUS119
0.02385591
6.4
0.4
29.4
39.0
23.2
1.6
0.0


Spanish_Barcelones:SER015
0.02693764
11.6
1.0
23.8
35.8
27.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Barcelones:VID014
0.02627806
54.2
0.0
13.4
0.0
32.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:FER039
0.01936548
18.8
0.0
25.4
22.4
33.2
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:FOR067
0.01856679
39.6
0.0
10.8
14.8
30.2
4.6
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:FOR094
0.02026869
2.4
0.0
20.6
30.6
39.8
6.6
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:GRA011
0.01771034
13.6
0.0
23.2
28.2
29.2
5.8
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:GRA035
0.02530673
0.0
0.0
41.8
45.8
12.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:GUL190
0.02024628
35.6
0.0
10.4
20.4
26.2
7.0
0.4


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:GUS202
0.01770466
14.8
0.0
20.6
37.0
27.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona:VID048
0.02671090
4.0
0.0
25.4
39.2
29.4
2.0
0.0


Spanish_Canarias:HG01694
0.02376749
19.8
0.0
12.8
17.6
24.0
25.8
0.0


Spanish_Canarias:HG01695
0.02307597
19.6
0.2
22.2
15.6
15.8
26.6
0.0


Spanish_Cantabria:HG01512
0.01909399
6.2
0.0
32.2
42.2
17.8
1.6
0.0


Spanish_Cantabria:HG01513
0.01992880
12.2
0.0
30.4
31.8
24.6
1.0
0.0


Spanish_Cantabria:HG01679
0.02076032
4.8
0.0
30.6
35.0
24.2
5.4
0.0


Spanish_Castello:ALB231
0.02200114
0.0
0.0
30.8
40.4
28.6
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Castello:BOS027
0.01851177
0.6
0.0
34.4
32.6
31.8
0.0
0.6


Spanish_Castello:CAR023
0.01727629
0.0
0.0
27.2
44.4
28.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Castello:CAR200
0.03124686
14.2
0.0
33.4
30.8
19.6
2.0
0.0


Spanish_Castello:FER033
0.02209133
28.0
0.0
31.4
24.4
16.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Castello:PIT001
0.02615065
9.6
0.0
28.0
27.4
30.2
4.8
0.0


Spanish_Castello:SAB019
0.02258077
16.4
0.0
24.4
26.4
26.8
6.0
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha:HG01503
0.01787655
0.0
0.0
28.6
35.4
33.4
2.6
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha:HG01504
0.02035386
0.0
0.0
31.0
31.8
31.2
6.0
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha:HG01746
0.02944300
39.4
0.0
22.2
9.6
26.8
2.0
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha:HG02238
0.02323282
33.6
0.0
17.8
15.0
25.2
8.4
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon:HG01500
0.02892345
25.4
0.0
17.8
19.4
25.0
12.4
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon:HG01501
0.02096138
34.4
0.0
15.4
19.0
16.4
14.8
0.0


Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon:HG01506
0.01899672
3.4
0.0
27.6
38.4
23.6
7.0
0.0


Spanish_Cataluna:HG01536
0.02401392
0.4
0.8
32.2
46.6
17.8
2.2
0.0


Spanish_Cataluna:HG01537
0.01661706
3.8
0.0
24.4
37.2
31.2
3.4
0.0


Spanish_Cataluna:HG01761
0.03153007
47.4
0.0
20.6
6.6
16.6
8.8
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:CAL107
0.02803598
0.0
0.0
30.8
40.4
28.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:CAR007
0.02661908
0.0
0.0
20.8
36.4
41.2
1.4
0.2


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:CAR048
0.02414439
2.4
0.0
32.8
51.4
13.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:COD068
0.02619451
39.6
0.0
13.8
15.4
31.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:MAS003
0.02140702
23.4
0.0
25.8
22.8
27.6
0.0
0.4


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:SOL051
0.02098034
25.2
0.0
23.4
17.4
34.0
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:SOL083
0.02426400
41.6
0.0
19.4
11.2
27.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:VID044
0.02880584
1.8
0.0
28.6
35.2
34.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Catalunya_Central:VID057
0.02383868
19.4
0.0
27.4
33.0
16.0
4.2
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:CAR256
0.02055577
17.8
0.0
15.2
19.6
40.6
6.8
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV001_2
0.02750910
0.0
0.0
27.0
26.8
46.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV004_2
0.02748578
0.0
0.0
25.6
33.2
35.0
6.2
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV009_2
0.02379219
14.8
0.0
14.8
34.6
29.6
6.2
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV010_2
0.03369888
47.0
0.0
10.6
1.4
37.4
3.6
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV011_2
0.02280322
37.2
0.0
17.4
8.4
28.4
8.6
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV012_2
0.02038584
34.4
0.0
16.4
8.0
35.8
5.4
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV013_2
0.02179631
12.4
0.0
18.4
32.0
35.8
1.4
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV014_2
0.02420304
8.6
0.0
26.0
29.8
32.4
3.2
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:EIV015_2
0.02202655
23.4
1.0
25.8
20.0
29.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:GUS199
0.02051597
0.0
0.8
24.0
38.4
35.4
1.4
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:GUS203
0.03233261
17.0
0.0
16.4
20.6
41.8
4.2
0.0


Spanish_Eivissa:SER064
0.02925089
24.8
0.2
14.8
15.8
42.2
2.2
0.0


Spanish_Extremadura:HG01509
0.01893577
18.8
0.0
15.2
19.0
32.0
15.0
0.0


Spanish_Extremadura:HG01510
0.01421476
12.0
0.0
25.2
29.4
27.8
5.6
0.0


Spanish_Extremadura:HG01527
0.01544694
0.0
0.0
23.6
38.0
24.0
14.4
0.0


Spanish_Galicia:HG01685
0.02762714
0.0
0.0
22.6
37.6
25.4
14.4
0.0


Spanish_Galicia:HG01686
0.02126084
1.6
0.0
23.8
47.2
14.4
11.0
2.0


Spanish_Galicia:HG01704
0.01436665
9.8
0.0
20.0
27.0
29.0
14.2
0.0


Spanish_Girona:BOS011
0.01403955
0.0
0.0
25.4
47.8
24.2
2.6
0.0


Spanish_Girona:DAN072
0.02602315
0.6
0.0
26.4
40.0
33.0
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Girona:FER052
0.02748525
0.0
0.0
33.8
39.6
24.8
1.8
0.0


Spanish_Girona:MOR061
0.03012043
27.4
0.0
9.6
23.6
38.2
1.2
0.0


Spanish_Girona:REI087
0.02569100
12.0
0.0
26.6
27.2
34.0
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Girona:ROB116
0.02307996
4.4
0.0
29.6
35.4
27.4
3.2
0.0


Spanish_Girona:ROB127
0.02486425
0.0
0.0
20.0
37.2
35.6
5.6
1.6


Spanish_Girona:ROI027
0.01920582
16.6
0.2
19.2
27.6
35.0
1.4
0.0


Spanish_Girona:SER018
0.02991712
6.4
0.0
18.0
37.6
38.0
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Girona:VID016
0.02412534
42.6
0.0
21.6
16.4
17.6
1.8
0.0


Spanish_La_Rioja:La_Rioja1
0.02054986
3.2
0.0
41.2
28.6
25.4
1.0
0.6


Spanish_Lleida:FER007
0.02670069
8.6
0.0
24.0
31.8
34.4
1.2
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:FER015
0.01852530
4.4
0.0
27.4
20.0
45.0
0.0
3.2


Spanish_Lleida:FOR066
0.02652554
16.4
0.0
28.6
27.0
24.8
3.2
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:GUS014
0.02787717
42.4
0.0
16.6
12.2
28.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:GUS036
0.02382379
12.2
0.0
28.4
30.8
28.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:MIQ133
0.02304326
0.0
0.6
19.2
51.0
29.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:MST075
0.02232969
0.0
0.2
32.2
46.0
18.6
3.0
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:RIC076
0.02951168
12.0
0.0
24.6
31.2
28.4
3.8
0.0


Spanish_Lleida:ROS005
0.02353515
8.6
0.0
29.8
35.8
24.8
1.0
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:ALE339
0.01972480
18.2
0.0
15.4
25.0
32.4
9.0
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:CAL026
0.02299928
12.2
0.4
18.0
36.0
31.2
2.2
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:GRA135
0.02639122
0.2
0.8
26.4
33.2
39.0
0.0
0.4


Spanish_Mallorca:MAY035
0.02576424
22.4
0.0
16.8
23.2
36.8
0.8
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:MEL022
0.02124095
0.6
0.0
24.0
33.6
41.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:MST073
0.02347589
37.4
0.0
12.8
17.0
32.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:ROI096
0.02236750
0.0
0.0
22.4
38.4
34.6
4.6
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:SLM078
0.02907814
23.8
0.0
19.0
16.4
39.6
1.2
0.0


Spanish_Mallorca:SOL053
0.02193928
34.0
0.6
14.4
15.8
35.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Menorca:FER054
0.02246326
24.4
0.4
23.6
14.0
32.6
5.0
0.0


Spanish_Menorca:GUS007
0.01759028
22.6
1.0
21.6
14.0
40.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Menorca:PON058
0.02520281
17.6
0.0
19.4
22.0
40.8
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Murcia:HG01617
0.02560275
0.0
0.0
28.2
34.6
31.2
6.0
0.0


Spanish_Murcia:HG01618
0.01858692
21.2
0.0
20.2
27.6
19.0
12.0
0.0


Spanish_Murcia:HG01697
0.02680334
27.8
0.8
20.6
14.8
27.6
8.4
0.0


Spanish_Murcia:HG01699
0.02357037
35.4
0.6
22.6
0.0
38.2
3.2
0.0


Spanish_Navarra:Navarra1
0.02401105
0.8
0.0
30.0
40.8
22.0
6.4
0.0


Spanish_Navarra:Navarra2
0.02680466
0.0
0.0
33.2
37.8
25.2
3.8
0.0


Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01515
0.02263268
22.2
0.0
35.6
32.6
9.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01516
0.03253164
36.2
0.0
35.4
23.2
5.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Pais_Vasco:HG01518
0.03205280
21.4
0.0
33.8
31.0
13.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:ALE088
0.02847744
0.0
0.0
23.2
42.0
34.8
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:BOS015
0.01796370
0.0
0.0
17.0
44.2
33.8
5.0
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:FER023
0.02350899
19.8
0.0
22.6
30.6
24.6
2.4
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:GUS029
0.02660589
4.8
0.0
22.8
33.6
37.4
1.4
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:ROB016
0.02597504
8.4
0.0
16.2
34.4
40.6
0.0
0.4


Spanish_Penedes:ROS025
0.02306645
0.0
0.2
26.8
47.0
25.8
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:SAB014
0.02704247
25.0
0.0
23.8
23.0
27.4
0.8
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:SER022
0.02395325
31.2
0.0
22.6
22.0
24.2
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:STC091
0.02353398
0.0
0.0
30.2
36.0
32.8
1.0
0.0


Spanish_Penedes:VID003
0.02272157
19.4
0.0
19.8
33.2
22.2
5.0
0.4


Spanish_Penedes:VID037
0.02966643
37.0
0.0
15.8
17.0
26.8
3.4
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:ARM005
0.02019797
10.4
0.0
28.0
28.6
32.0
1.0
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:BOS029
0.02138257
3.2
0.0
24.4
37.2
30.2
5.0
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:CAL053
0.03393168
31.6
0.0
25.0
11.8
31.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:COM032
0.03288755
16.2
0.0
20.8
25.2
34.8
3.0
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:MAS016
0.02054627
16.0
0.0
16.6
31.0
36.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:MOR068
0.02864300
29.0
0.0
13.4
27.6
27.6
2.4
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:RIC106
0.02515611
11.0
0.0
21.0
30.6
35.2
2.2
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:ROI042
0.01581373
17.6
0.0
27.4
29.4
24.0
1.4
0.2


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:ROS008
0.02857890
15.2
0.0
28.4
25.8
28.2
2.4
0.0


Spanish_Peri-Barcelona:SER027
0.02445126
0.0
0.0
32.0
41.6
22.8
3.6
0.0


Spanish_Pirineu:CAR016
0.02238375
23.8
0.0
30.4
15.2
28.4
0.0
2.2


Spanish_Pirineu:CAR212
0.02337690
0.0
0.0
32.2
37.4
17.6
12.6
0.2


Spanish_Pirineu:FER101
0.02387173
19.0
0.0
27.0
26.6
21.0
5.4
1.0


Spanish_Pirineu:GRA029
0.01802182
8.6
0.0
26.4
35.0
30.0
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Pirineu:SAB137
0.02598665
23.0
0.0
29.2
24.4
23.4
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Pirineu:SER011
0.02680781
0.0
0.0
24.6
41.2
32.2
2.0
0.0


Spanish_Soria:Soria1
0.02548181
0.0
0.0
35.0
46.4
16.6
2.0
0.0


Spanish_Soria:Soria2
0.03247151
0.0
0.0
35.8
47.6
14.2
2.4
0.0


Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre:GRA020
0.03228676
27.0
0.0
25.8
16.6
30.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre:GUS008
0.02356261
16.0
0.0
19.8
19.4
43.4
0.0
1.4


Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre:RAG111
0.02664361
5.2
0.0
33.4
35.8
25.6
0.0
0.0


Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre:SAB009
0.01988195
42.4
0.0
14.2
4.4
33.6
5.4
0.0


Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre:SAB131
0.02688463
25.8
0.0
19.0
20.6
33.4
1.2
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:ALB126
0.02324429
42.6
0.0
17.2
12.4
15.6
10.2
2.0


Spanish_Valencia:ALB389
0.03044627
5.8
0.0
23.8
31.2
31.6
7.6
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:BON076
0.02267774
31.0
0.0
26.6
12.8
25.4
4.2
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:BOS010
0.02782611
8.6
0.0
30.8
38.2
17.0
5.4
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:EST038
0.02068238
9.6
0.0
33.4
28.0
28.8
0.2
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:EST093
0.02410026
0.0
0.0
29.0
38.0
24.8
8.2
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:FER097
0.02578280
5.2
0.0
31.0
32.2
27.8
3.8
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:GRA016
0.02656374
0.2
0.0
28.6
43.4
22.2
5.6
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:HG01605
0.02419700
28.6
0.0
23.0
15.8
31.6
1.0
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:HG01606
0.03207340
34.0
0.0
23.8
16.6
24.0
1.6
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:HG01607
0.02776073
3.2
0.0
22.4
32.8
39.4
2.2
0.0


Spanish_Valencia:SOL084
0.02439362
30.4
0.0
18.8
12.2
37.6
0.8
0.2


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal1
0.01809599
0.0
0.0
25.0
40.2
22.8
12.0
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal2
0.03172632
0.0
0.0
17.2
32.8
34.6
15.4
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal3
0.02111552
19.4
0.0
12.8
21.0
36.4
10.4
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal6
0.03168321
38.8
0.0
15.8
11.6
22.8
11.0
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal7
0.01658498
2.8
0.0
19.6
32.2
34.4
11.0
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal9
0.02345239
40.6
0.4
15.8
8.4
24.2
10.6
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal10
0.02473909
28.8
0.0
18.6
15.6
23.2
13.8
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal11
0.01499483
0.2
0.0
22.2
35.8
26.8
13.8
1.2


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal12
0.02147323
33.8
0.0
13.0
15.0
24.8
13.4
0.0


Portuguese:EBC_Portugal13
0.01840766
0.0
0.0
25.0
36.0
26.6
12.4
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal1
0.03331249
1.4
0.0
28.6
28.4
35.8
5.8
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal10
0.02208434
0.2
0.0
24.4
36.4
25.0
14.0
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal11
0.02730346
0.0
0.0
28.0
44.8
15.6
11.6
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal12
0.02535364
21.6
0.8
17.8
16.6
32.8
10.4
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal13
0.02704251
0.0
0.0
23.6
32.4
32.4
11.6
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal14
0.02884221
0.0
0.0
28.2
36.0
23.8
12.0
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal15
0.02889624
0.0
0.0
23.8
33.4
32.0
10.8
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal2
0.02230840
6.4
0.0
23.4
38.6
22.0
9.6
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal3
0.02629002
12.2
0.0
21.4
40.4
10.2
15.8
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal4
0.03111508
2.2
0.0
27.0
28.8
25.2
16.8
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal5
0.03099444
14.4
0.0
16.4
25.0
34.6
8.0
1.6


Portuguese:Portugal6
0.02525541
26.4
0.8
12.6
18.8
27.0
14.4
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal7
0.03347295
3.8
0.0
25.4
34.8
29.2
6.8
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal8
0.03099517
23.4
0.8
21.4
22.2
23.6
8.6
0.0


Portuguese:Portugal9
0.03205428
20.8
0.0
20.8
19.0
31.6
7.8
0.0

[Adamastor]

What race were the Ibero-Maurusians? I doubt they were predominantly West Eurasian, why would they have been so?

West Eurasian is a more recent cluster emerging when races became more stabilized. Part of what Ibero-Maurusians were indeed has affinities with what we call ''West Eurasian'', other part is what is called ''Ancestral North African'', a type of admixture that isn't necessarily West Eurasian but isn't ''Black African'' as well.

It's similar to ANE in that sense, many of these groups were around way before the current races had emerged. ANEs weren't ncessarily ''Mongoloid'' or ''Caucasoid'' (which are outdated terms), but something else.

[Gaditanian]

You literally cherrypick single results when in actuality Germans have 0.85% in East Eurasian+periphery admixture(Oceanian, Amerindian, East Asian and Siberian) which is well within noise range considering the many groups used. Norwegian and Swedes do have 2-3% East Eurasian admixute on average but this is because of Sami and Finnic admixed northern individuals, southern ones have less. Also people in France, Germany, Poland, British Isles, half of Italy or the Balkans don't have this amount of non-Caucasoid ancestry on average.

But sure take fringe cases and use them to generalize the entirety of non-Iberian Europe just to cope for some results that might not even signal actual historical Subsaharan ancestry.

I haven't said nothing about germans neither central european, I said north & east european countries that they are close to mongoloid populations as well iberians are close to african people, that's all.

Mongoloids are one of the three races, and in this same way, amerindians, samis, siberians, east asian, etc are ethnicies of the mongoloid race.


I have reflected the German example as exception, but exist, like the same exceptions exist in Iberian with people with more of 5% SSA

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mongoloid

Caucasoid:
Aryans
Semitic
Hamitic

Negroid:
African Negro
Khoikhoi
Melanesian
Negrito
Australoid


Mongoloid:
North Mongol
Chinese & Indochinese
Japanese & Korean
Tibetan & Burmese
Malay
Polynesian
Maori
Micronesian
Eskimo & Inuit
American

[SharpFork]

If the SSA in North Africa is ancient, then couldn't the SSA in West Iberia be explained also with pre-Islamic or even pre-Carthaginian events? Do we have iron or bronze age samples from West Iberia that we can analyze with Gedmatch and the same calculators we use that show SSA in modern Iberians?

[Cumansky]

If the SSA in North Africa is ancient, then couldn't the SSA in West Iberia be explained also with pre-Islamic or even pre-Carthaginian events?

No. And some of the SSA was brought by people in boats that why SSA values is random from region to region

Guanche people from Canary Islands have an older substrate of SSA

[Urbanuss]

Lol, you must be stupid or a troll. Mongols are an ethnicity, since when do the Amerindians have something to do with the Mongols? Scandinavians have ZERO Mongolian ancestry. Even in me as a part North Russian person it's mostly Uralic/Finno-Ugric stuff. Not to mention that no European has any actual native American ancestry. It's just an Ancient North Eurasian signal if not noise. GEDmatch calcs may be fun to play with for a while but they haven't been updated for years and have varying degrees of inaccuracy.

Nah, some of them have sometimes, you are the troll.

Do you have a agenda? appears to be suspect for me, seems to "purify" non-iberian euros, meanwhile Iberians are treated as untermensch mongrel pseudo-moors.

[Urbanuss]

a lot of moriscos went to galicia and during the 8th century some berbers decided to separate themselves from the arab elite (revolt) and converted to christianity ( majority went to galicia )

False, pure anti-iberian propaganda/bullshit.

Galicians have nothing to do with your untermensch sandniggers compatriots, Niggabean.

[Token]

Isn't it obvious?

https://voloshin.md/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2.jpg

https://tripkay.com/destination-guides/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/strait-of-gibraltar-viewpoint.jpg

[Urbanuss]

Isn't it obvious?

https://voloshin.md/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2.jpg

https://tripkay.com/destination-guides/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/strait-of-gibraltar-viewpoint.jpg

Yes, its a quite obvious, but not all iberians have alien dna (non-caucasoid) including non-basques.

[Gallop]

Isn't it obvious?

https://voloshin.md/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/2.jpg

https://tripkay.com/destination-guides/wp-content/uploads/2016/05/strait-of-gibraltar-viewpoint.jpg



Precisely because it seems obvious, this is not the case. If it were that obvious, the results would be different, and they are not.

If North Africa was an orchard, what need would they have had to go to the northern coast of Europe and vice versa? I don't think that the reception on both coasts was very friendly, as demonstrated much later with the Phoenician or Greek colonies in Iberia, walled in and armed to the teeth, as if they were crossing from one side to the other, that is of a modern tourist cruise mentality.


The Iberian Peninsula belongs to the Eurasian tectonic plate. The beginning and the end of a continent at one of its extremes must always be a place and it is ours, any problem?

Take care of your continent, with all that you have in there, you are not the right person to confuse the identity of the Spaniards, which is European, something that is very far away from you.

The typical foreigner who puts a picture of the Strait of Gibraltar and that's it, it's all explained, I'm not going to send you where I'd like to send you.

[Token]

Precisely because it seems obvious, this is not the case. If it were that obvious, the results would be different, and they are not.

If North Africa was an orchard, what need would they have had to go to the northern coast of Europe and vice versa? I don't think that the reception on both coasts was very friendly, as demonstrated much later with the Phoenician or Greek colonies in Iberia, walled in and armed to the teeth, as if they were crossing from one side to the other, that is of a modern tourist cruise mentality.


The Iberian Peninsula belongs to the Eurasian tectonic plate. The beginning and the end of a continent at one of its extremes must always be a place and it is ours, any problem?

"Muh Eurasian tectonic plate" LMFAO. Pre-Reconquista, even pre-Moorish southern Iberians had as much as 30% North African ancestry, obviously there was a lot of back and forth movement which is exactly what you'd expect. Modern-day southern Iberians have around 10% thanks to northern Spaniards moving south.

[Urbanuss]

"Muh Eurasian tectonic plate" LMFAO. Pre-Reconquista, even pre-Moorish southern Iberians had as much as 30% North African ancestry, obviously there was a lot of back and forth movement which is exactly what you'd expect. Modern-day southern Iberians have around 10% thanks to northern Spaniards moving south.

Well, so iberians were untermensch during these times?

Meanwhile, a modern NE Euro with 40% ching chong East EurASIA is considered Übermensch by members of this forum, wtf this logic?

[Token]

Well, so iberians were untermensch during these times?

Meanwhile, a modern NE Euro with 40% ching chong East EurASIA is considered Übermensch by members of this forum, wtf this logic?

Sorry i do not understand neo nazi incel language

[Gallop]

"Muh Eurasian tectonic plate" LMFAO. Pre-Reconquista, even pre-Moorish southern Iberians had as much as 30% North African ancestry, obviously there was a lot of back and forth movement which is exactly what you'd expect. Modern-day southern Iberians have around 10% thanks to northern Spaniards moving south.

The first thing is that we are Spanish, the Iberians is a ancient population, if you have problems with the term "Spanish" it is not our problem, the Spanish are those of Spain.

I haven't found any Spaniard yet with a 10% NA in saliva tests, so don't invent any more. Spaniards are Europeans and nobody, least of all you, is going to play with our identity because of a bunch of bullshit calculator orientative calculators for nothing else.

You teach another nonsense, with the study of The Argar it is demonstrated that the displacements from the south to more to the north and vice versa already took place from ancient times.

I hope this is clear to you.

Are you European?

Our combination is one more of Europe and no country is the model because no European country has ownership and determination over the European continent as we know it is made up of many different countries and regions.

Play the flute a bit in the Andes and see if your ideas become clearer.

[Urbanuss]

Sorry i do not understand neo nazi incel language

A "neo nazi" who questions the racial "purity" of a lot of euros and defends southern euros (because of ancestry reasons) its called "neo nazi"???

You and Leto are crypto-trolls when say about non-euro genes in Iberians and comparing with other euros (denying for example, the non-euro admix among central and north euros), im enough!

I'm used to trolls like RMuller, he is just comic, but crypto-trolls are worse.

[Urbanuss]

Double

[Defcon2]

"Muh Eurasian tectonic plate" LMFAO. Pre-Reconquista, even pre-Moorish southern Iberians had as much as 30% North African ancestry, obviously there was a lot of back and forth movement which is exactly what you'd expect. Modern-day southern Iberians have around 10% thanks to northern Spaniards moving south.

Yes, but the available pre-Roman southern Iberian samples generally lacked North African components and the distance in the Straits of Gibraltar was the same as today. This mix is explained by historical events rather than merely geographical.

[Leto]

Nah, some of them have sometimes, you are the troll.

Do you have a agenda? appears to be suspect for me, seems to "purify" non-iberian euros, meanwhile Iberians are treated as untermensch mongrel pseudo-moors.
Stop digging up my posts from years ago and quoting them, you dunce. I'm not even an active member of TA at this point.

[Token]

Yes, but the available pre-Roman southern Iberian samples generally lacked North African components and the distance in the Straits of Gibraltar was the same as today. This mix is explained by historical events rather than merely geographical.
Samples dated to as far back as the Neolithic had North African ancestry, but it is true that most lacked it. Now I ask you, which historical events are responsible for modern-day Iberians scoring up to 10% North African (and pre-Reconquista southern Iberians much more than that), and why is North African ancestry in Europe basically exclusive to Iberia?

[Urbanuss]

Stop digging up my posts from years ago and quoting them, you dunce. I'm not even an active member of TA at this point.

Should never be, to be honest, just like other members, but i liked your balt samples of K13/K15, were useful for me to study more about the DNA of other Europeans :D

[Friends of Oliver Society]

a lot of moriscos went to galicia and during the 8th century some berbers decided to separate themselves from the arab elite (revolt) and converted to christianity ( majority went to galicia )

There is no record of Berbers in the 8th century converting and migrating to Galicia. There is, however, a record of Berbers leaving southern Galicia in the early 8th-century to fight against Arabs during a civil war that pitted Berbers versus Arabs. The exact opposite of what this person is claiming.

There is also no record of Moriscos moving to Galicia. The powers that be in Galicia complained that they couldn't accept them because the region was too poor and taking in Moriscos would be a burden that would strain an already strained economy. I'm sure some were sent but not mass migration. There would have been documents of a government initiated mass migration. There would have been some record of it.

[Voskos]

They might have slightly more non Eurasian but they have less non Caucasoid, unless you consider admixtures like Amerindian and Mongoloid as being fully Caucasoid.

Iberians are sometimes chosen as a reference for Western European components without any Siberid/ Mongoloid admixture.

[Defcon2]

Samples dated to as far back as the Neolithic had North African ancestry, but it is true that most lacked it. Now I ask you, which historical events are responsible for modern-day Iberians scoring up to 10% North African (and pre-Reconquista southern Iberians much more than that), and why is North African ancestry in Europe basically exclusive to Iberia?

Trans-Mediterranean trade and population displacement caused by political powers of that time. The Carthaginians never invaded Greenland so there are no MENA genes there.

[Gallop]

Bronze Age: La Loma del Puerco I7162 (Chiclana Cádiz Province)
https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/a/AVvXsEh7t1_rKahoO8aXJF-POK_cckp2-WDSX7mAtl3c8fOeRfJfJNpxNHVes0ms_XhpSA6OpGJHwFZXP9i XsawBbJ_ALntmbUzqTanQDovmXrgi6TC1bxOF_EM2o3hlDuHPI rQUbEtaL5T_lXDTKhiwypDFvLR19Rg0mRL2dj5yXVb0hbXnrRx yyPTPyP_p=s802
https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-4-msDplPeMQ/X0W2wykKFkI/AAAAAAAAEcU/1lqDD8u-WVI8YXKnfBfnSaXfYMVdsSRSwCLcBGAsYHQ/s2048/MAPEDeepDiveLoma.jpeg

La loma del puerco obtains the Neolithic of Morocco 18.82, but this is the Neolithic of Morocco, :

https://1.bp.blogspot.com/-Ydnjscvtor4/X0W40Ofn2PI/AAAAAAAAEds/FHSMWklQQcsKIMvW2sHlffXfuE_NK8tcgCLcBGAsYHQ/s314/AncientmatchNeoliticMarruecos.jpeg

[Urbanuss]

Não há registro de berberes no século VIII se convertendo e migrando para a Galiza. Há, no entanto, um registro de berberes deixando o sul da Galícia no início do século VIII para lutar contra árabes durante uma guerra civil que opôs berberes contra árabes. Exatamente o oposto do que essa pessoa está afirmando.

Também não há registro de mouriscos se mudando para a Galiza. As potências que estão na Galiza reclamaram que não podiam aceitá-los porque a região era muito pobre e receber os mouriscos seria um fardo que sobrecarregaria uma economia já tensa. Tenho certeza de que alguns foram enviados, mas não a migração em massa. Haveria documentos de uma migração em massa iniciada pelo governo. Haveria algum registro disso.

he was banned a long time ago, there's no guarantee he will see these replies.


Maybe he see when come back with another account.

[Gallop]

https://blogger.googleusercontent.com/img/b/R29vZ2xl/AVvXsEigcWuh_JvolCbqlKW1hx3QNBmGoEc2jEp7DtjcmLas8G JVNG6V5fMxpkUBpRR5h-hgqeB0IxbvnbRm7QLMRUKMdHgoIVsUZGn-jsnkLmJvteD7NotAOSt8llmVKpEsShRFHblwV143uS4RbKiQGF Eh7ke2S6_0_YqCIhOan5NNC9bywpjv6l14dMvh/s3390/IBERIApre-bellbeakerATP2.JPEG

La Reconquista y el coño. Extranjeros que creen que no hubieron desplazamientos N/S en Iberia, desde siempre los ha habido.