Is this normal for someone with Italian and Jewish heritage?

[DontFxxkWithWendy]

I’m predominantly British/German/other west European but had an Italian great grandfather from Abruzzo and either a Sephardic grandparent or great-granpdarent (my mom was adopted). I’ve noticed that on a lot of the 4-way oracles, I often get Sicilian or Ashkenazi. Is this averaging out my Sephardic Jewish heritage and my central Italian heritage?

Here are some examples:

Eurogenes K13
1 Ashkenazi + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.181050
2 Ashkenazi + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.211677
3 Ashkenazi + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.248798
4 Italian_Jewish + Norwegian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.272592
5 Ashkenazi + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.286679

Eurogenes K15
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + South_Italian @ 2.641161
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Sicilian @ 2.811851
3 Irish + Irish + South_Italian + Southeast_English @ 2.874063
4 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian @ 2.878094
5 Irish + Irish + South_Italian + West_Scottish @ 2.882922

I often get markers for both of my ethnicities. I have gotten a couple of hits for Italian_Abruzzo but it’s not as prominent as Sicilian or Ashkenazi. I frequently get a secondary population of Cypriot/Sephardic/North African/Syrian Jewish on the 2-way oracles. Here are my top scores at Eurogenes K13:

1. 78.1% Orcadian + 21.9% Italian_Jewish @ 1.7
2 83.3% Southeast_English + 16.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.79
3 81.9% Southeast_English + 18.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.83
4 83.5% Southeast_English + 16.5% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.96
5 82% Southeast_English + 18% Italian_Jewish @ 1.96
6 78.1% Orcadian + 21.9% Sephardic_Jewish

It’s very frustrating not having a paper trail to go off of since I don’t know my mother’s biological father (although I can deduce his heritage based on my matches and comparing with other kits).

[Ljubic]

I’m predominantly British/German/other west European but had an Italian great grandfather from Abruzzo and either a Sephardic grandparent or great-granpdarent (my mom was adopted). I’ve noticed that on a lot of the 4-way oracles, I often get Sicilian or Ashkenazi. Is this averaging out my Sephardic Jewish heritage and my central Italian heritage?

Here are some examples:

Eurogenes K13
1 Ashkenazi + Southwest_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.181050
2 Ashkenazi + Southwest_English + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.211677
3 Ashkenazi + Orcadian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.248798
4 Italian_Jewish + Norwegian + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 2.272592
5 Ashkenazi + Southeast_English + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.286679

Eurogenes K15
1 Irish + Irish + Irish + South_Italian @ 2.641161
2 Irish + Irish + Irish + West_Sicilian @ 2.811851
3 Irish + Irish + South_Italian + Southeast_English @ 2.874063
4 Irish + Irish + Southeast_English + West_Sicilian @ 2.878094
5 Irish + Irish + South_Italian + West_Scottish @ 2.882922

I often get markers for both of my ethnicities. I have gotten a couple of hits for Italian_Abruzzo but it’s not as prominent as Sicilian or Ashkenazi. I frequently get a secondary population of Cypriot/Sephardic/North African/Syrian Jewish on the 2-way oracles. Here are my top scores at Eurogenes K13:

1. 78.1% Orcadian + 21.9% Italian_Jewish @ 1.7
2 83.3% Southeast_English + 16.7% Tunisian_Jewish @ 1.79
3 81.9% Southeast_English + 18.1% Sephardic_Jewish @ 1.83
4 83.5% Southeast_English + 16.5% Libyan_Jewish @ 1.96
5 82% Southeast_English + 18% Italian_Jewish @ 1.96
6 78.1% Orcadian + 21.9% Sephardic_Jewish

It’s very frustrating not having a paper trail to go off of since I don’t know my mother’s biological father (although I can deduce his heritage based on my matches and comparing with other kits).

Its just trying to make sense of your med which I assume is relatively high compared to your other values. Italians and Jews (regardless if Ashkenazi or Sephardic) usually have high med averages and the oracles uses their averages to get you closer to a lower distance.

Can you post your K13(not the oracles) for better insight?

[vbnetkhio]

I often get Sicilian or Ashkenazi. Is this averaging out my Sephardic Jewish heritage and my central Italian heritage?


yes, Sicilian and Ashkenazi lie bewteen Sephardic and Abruzzo as far as eurogenes k13 and k15 is concerned. check out this CA plot https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

[Pine]

Your oracle makes sense if your Abruzzo grandfather had the Sephardic parent or you had a Sephardic great-grandparent and an Abruzzo great grandparent. It doesn't make sense if they're unrelated and one was a grandfather. Also, Ashkenazim and Sephardim are autosomally very close, so it can have nothing to do with averaging.

[DontFxxkWithWendy]

Its just trying to make sense of your med which I assume is relatively high compared to your other values. Italians and Jews (regardless if Ashkenazi or Sephardic) usually have high med averages and the oracles uses their averages to get you closer to a lower distance.

Can you post your K13(not the oracles) for better insight?

Yes, I can do that! I’m going to post some other calculator results because I’ve noticed some bizarre patterns that may interest you.

Eurogenes K13
North_Atlantic 44.22 Pct
Baltic 19.58 Pct
West_Med 14.72 Pct
West_Asian 5.64 Pct
East_Med 10.98 Pct
Red_Sea 2.05 Pct
South_Asian -
East_Asian -
Siberian 1.47 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.78 Pct
Northeast_African 0.56 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Eurogenes K36 (notice the very high East Med)
Amerindian -
Arabian -
Armenian 0.46 Pct
Basque 5.41 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 4.97 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 4.30 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 4.42 Pct
East_Med 5.52 Pct
Eastern_Euro -
Fennoscandian 10.81 Pct
French 8.18 Pct
Iberian 5.78 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 11.29 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.15 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic 13.72 Pct
North_Caucasian 4.86 Pct
North_Sea 16.00 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic 0.30 Pct
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian -
West_Med 2.82 Pct

Jtest (I have an abnormally low East Euro score for any west European, according to the spreadsheets and my research)
SOUTH_BALTIC 11.55 Pct
EAST_EURO 4.10 Pct
NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 25.08 Pct
ATLANTIC 26.26 Pct
WEST_MED 12.22 Pct
ASHKENAZI 5.27 Pct
EAST_MED 10.47 Pct
WEST_ASIAN 4.03 Pct
MIDDLE_EASTERN -
SOUTH_ASIAN -
EAST_AFRICAN 0.42 Pct
EAST_ASIAN -
SIBERIAN 0.60 Pct
WEST_AFRICAN -

[DontFxxkWithWendy]

Your oracle makes sense if your Abruzzo grandfather had the Sephardic parent or you had a Sephardic great-grandparent and an Abruzzo great grandparent. It doesn't make sense if they're unrelated and one was a grandfather. Also, Ashkenazim and Sephardim are autosomally very close, so it can have nothing to do with averaging.

Why wouldn’t it make sense? I have actually found evidence of Jewish heritage on my Abruzzo side, based on surnames and what I’ve discussed with an archaeologist doing research in Italy.

[DontFxxkWithWendy]

yes, Sicilian and Ashkenazi lie bewteen Sephardic and Abruzzo as far as eurogenes k13 and k15 is concerned. check out this CA plot https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15V4.png

That’s what I was thinking. Because if I have a Sephardic grandparent or great grandparent and then a great grandparent from Abruzzo, and considering DNA is not inherited exactly 25 percent from each grandparent, then it would make sense if I get modeled as ¼ Ashkenazi or ¼ Sicilian/South Italian. I compared my kit with a lot of other ⅛ Italian/Sicilian, ⅞ northwest European and I always scored higher on the Med and Middle East components.