Main types and place Croats from Dinaric Alps

[Jana]

Those are crowds of High School Graduates (18-years olds). They are from interior of Dalmatia, on the border with Herzegovina. Click on images for better resolution.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Imotski

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[Jana]

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[Jana]

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[Xz2k9]

Balkans.

[Jana]

Balkans.

I don't understand your comment. They are from Balkans. What do you mean exactly ?

[Xz2k9]

You said place them ...

[Jana]

You said place them ...

Balkans means shit. What do you mean under Balkans ? Bosnia, Kosovo, Bulgaria, Greece, Romania...?
Unless you are implying entire Balkans looks the same.

[Xz2k9]

If you're gonna use that type of language like ''Shit'' then I'm not gonna tell you .............

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Around 2/3's West Balkans with 1/3 looking Central European.

Mostly Dinarids, Alpines, some Pontids, some Carpathids. Can't see any that don't pass at least in Transylvania. Wouldn't call Bulgarian apart from some women I guess.

[Jana]

Around 2/3's West Balkans with 1/3 looking Central European.

Mostly Dinarids, Alpines, some Pontids, some Carpathids. Can't see any that don't pass at least in Transylvania. Wouldn't call Bulgarian apart from some women I guess.

Mostly dinarids ? Where do you see flat occiputs ? I don't.
I have a feeling people automatically write dinarid just because they are from dinaric alps.

I don't see flattish heads among youth on this photos, majority is round skulled.

[Benyzero]

Corded nordics, and Faelids

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Mostly dinarids ? Where do you see flat occiputs ? I don't.
I have a feeling people automatically write dinarid just because they are from dinaric alps.

I don't see flattish heads among youth on this photos, majority is round skulled.

Punctuation error. I meant Alpines and Dinarids. You might be right and there can be more Pontids/N. Pontids. Pictures from a distance without any proper person in focus are hard to check properly for me.

[Jana]

Corded nordics, and Faelids

:picard2:

[Benyzero]

:picard2:

:rolleyes:

[Jana]

Punctuation error. I meant Alpines and Dinarids. You might be right and there can be more Pontids/N. Pontids. Pictures from a distance without any proper person in focus are hard to check properly for me.

Definition of dinarid needs to be changed. Because there is def. this tall, lanky, narrow-faced type of various pigmentation that dominates here, but it is not super brachy at all like books say.
I dare to say even among young Albanians you won't find this ''typically dinarid'' flat back of the head anymore, it doesn't exist as dominantly it seems.

My theory is that it was never a phenotypical trait but rather result of cradling practice that is now abandoned.
Father of mine has this extremely flattened skull of the past and I am hyper dolicho. I look like him.

So I don't think it is racial thing.

[Jana]

:rolleyes:

But why did you write it ?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Definition of dinarid needs to be changed. Because there is def. this tall, lanky, narrow-faced type of various pigmentation that dominates here, but it is not super brachy at all like books say.
I dare to say even among young Albanians you won't find this ''typically dinarid'' flat back of the head anymore, it doesn't exist as dominantly it seems.

My theory is that it was never a phenotypical trait but rather result of cradling practice that is now abandoned.
Father of mine has this extremely flattened skull of the past and I am hyper dolicho. I look like him.

So I don't think it is racial thing.

You might be right about it imo I've also noticed among Romanians that there are far more doli or meso people and barely any brachys apart from the older pop.

[Benyzero]

But why did you write it ?

These classification threads with big crowds on it are pretty much the same, like the repeated answers every time :D Yes they are mainly balkan-central euro looking, nothing hardcore dinarid but it is there obviously.

[valentinavalley2]

Balkans, a lot of them look like they can pass in Kosovo.


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[Xz2k9]

Definition of dinarid needs to be changed. Because there is def. this tall, lanky, narrow-faced type of various pigmentation that dominates here, but it is not super brachy at all like books say.
I dare to say even among young Albanians you won't find this ''typically dinarid'' flat back of the head anymore, it doesn't exist as dominantly it seems.

My theory is that it was never a phenotypical trait but rather result of cradling practice that is now abandoned.
Father of mine has this extremely flattened skull of the past and I am hyper dolicho. I look like him.

So I don't think it is racial thing.

Maybe they are aliens ?

[Jana]

Balkans, a lot of them look like they can pass in Kosovo.

Do you accept them in Illyrian club ? :)

[Jana]

Maybe they are aliens ?

Rather hottoids. I really like such type :thumb001: Futuristics dinarics ? xD

[valentinavalley2]

Do you accept them in Illyrian club ? :)

Probably... they can pass in Kosovo, most of them easily...


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[Zroota]

Mainly Dinarids and Norics, with some (north) Pontids, Dinaro Meds and Alpines/Gorids

Not sure where they can be placed exactly, but I'll take a hunch and say the ex Yugoslav states (duh), Bulgaria, Romania, Hungary perhaps and maybe Poland as well.

https://i.imgur.com/fPCEbHW.png

Found just one guy that's my type (the dark haired fella that's piggy backing someone)

[Ford]

A lot more Pontids than expected. There's also Dinarids but they seem to be Dinarid+Pontid or Med, although there are a couple of pure Dinarids. Also a few Western types.

[Achaean]

They can be from Romania even in groups with no problem.
Theres less dinarids because Croatia's youth, same as Romania's and most of Europe is becoming more gracile and less dimorphic, hence less pronounced features and closer to the female gender.
Compare with Selly and Gami
Can Gami(the blonde guy) pass in Croatia? has typical new generation romanian blonde guy look.Both Gami and Selly are representative for new generation romainans, to me they look about the same except different pigmentation, some romanian females look more manly than them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eavripFiVTo

[valentinavalley2]

They can be from Romania even in groups with no problem.
Theres less dinarids because Croatia's youth, same as Romania's and most of Europe is becoming more gracile and less dimorphic, hence less pronounced features and closer to the female gender.
Compare with Selly and Gami
Can Gami(the blonde guy) pass in Croatia? has typical new generation romanian blonde guy look.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eavripFiVTo

They look nothing like Romanians.


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[Achaean]

They look nothing like Romanians.


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Who? OP pictures?Of course they can be romanian with no problem, old yugo photos on the other hand not.
Click the spoiler, day to day faces here.

https://i.imgur.com/dRYxtEq.png
https://i.imgur.com/rtaaMYK.png
https://i.imgur.com/DiZRStl.png

[Xz2k9]

Rather hottoids. I really like such type :thumb001: Futuristics dinarics ? xD

the type you described also exist in Kosovo though they range from robust/well muscled to thin ....

[Jana]

They can be from Romania even in groups with no problem.
Theres less dinarids because Croatia's youth, same as Romania's and most of Europe is becoming more gracile and less dimorphic, hence less pronounced features and closer to the female gender.
Compare with Selly and Gami
Can Gami(the blonde guy) pass in Croatia? has typical new generation romanian blonde guy look.Both Gami and Selly are representative for new generation romainans, to me they look about the same except different pigmentation, some romanian females look more manly than them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eavripFiVTo

Yes, they pass easily.
I noticed newer generations look less dimorphic than before.

But I think now both boys and girls look more soft or feminine. In the past dinaric alps men very were manly, but many dinaric pronounced girls didn't look very feminine either.
Now it's different.

[Jana]

Anyway, I don't like overly manly looking men. I don't like feminine looking either obviously, but not super manly. I prefer them somewhere in the middle.
It's kinda cool that younger people look closer to each other :D

(It's age of Aquarius that started in new millennium, an androgynous sign)

[Ford]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EhbxI5eVnM4

[Tommie]

They look nothing like Romanians.
And what are Romanians supposed to look like?

[valentinavalley2]

And what are Romanians supposed to look like?

Definitely not like those Croatians posted here.


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[valentinavalley2]

Who? OP pictures?Of course they can be romanian with no problem, old yugo photos on the other hand not.
Click the spoiler, day to day faces here.

https://i.imgur.com/dRYxtEq.png
https://i.imgur.com/rtaaMYK.png
https://i.imgur.com/DiZRStl.png


Some maybe, majority of the other photos don’t.


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[vbnetkhio]

...

these photos are blurry. do you have some in better quality? maybe not from that same town but from that area.

[Achaean]

Yes, they pass easily.
I noticed newer generations look less dimorphic than before.

But I think now both boys and girls look more soft or feminine. In the past dinaric alps men very were manly, but many dinaric pronounced girls didn't look very feminine either.
Now it's different.

Also, it seems that this does not affect the girls, actually it benefits them, cause they get more alpine features, rather than something like dinarid.
Another youtuber,these are brother and sister, he looks like a tranny, the difference is incredible.
https://www.instagram.com/p/BhjMf_Fnn77/

Here is Gamy girlfriend, who looks more masculine than he does, and another new generation romanian boy.
https://www.instagram.com/p/Bz8hzarIrQM/

These are day to day new generation romanian faces.

[valentinavalley2]

I don’t know about all Romanians... but here in the UK, a few Romanians tend to have gypsy features.


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[Columella]

Mostly dinarids ? Where do you see flat occiputs ? I don't.
I have a feeling people automatically write dinarid just because they are from dinaric alps.

I don't see flattish heads among youth on this photos, majority is round skulled.

You will find very few real flat occiput today.
As in Coon (Mountain of Giants) the percentage of real flat occiputs on the skull were greatly increased by an head binding practice in infancy.

Even when you see a flat occiput it might be still rounded but that looks flat because of the neck muscles and most of all of head shortness.

The “Dinaric” type is carachterised by the shortness of the back of the head, which we can call Planoccipital for conviene but is misleading and most often isn’t.
- in lateral position the distance between -rear of the head and ear hole is shorter than the distance between ear hole and browridges. Here a good, exaggerates example
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe395.jpg
So most “Dinaric” types are curvoccipital but a high head (conical as in Armenoids) and neck muscles as well as head shortness give this flat occiput impression.
- if a Dinaric instead has a long protruding arrow like back of the head , then it isn’t a Dinaric.

[vbnetkhio]

You will find very few real flat occiput today.
As in Coon (Mountain of Giants) the percentage of real flat occiputs on the skull were greatly increased by an head binding practice in infancy.

Even when you see a flat occiput it might be still rounded but that looks flat because of the neck muscles and most of all of head shortness.

The “Dinaric” type is carachterised by the shortness of the back of the head, which we can call Planoccipital for conviene but is misleading and most often isn’t.
- in lateral position the distance between -rear of the head and ear hole is shorter than the distance between ear hole and browridges. Here a good, exaggerates example
https://www.theapricity.com/snpa/bilder/troe395.jpg
So most “Dinaric” types are curvoccipital but a high head (conical as in Armenoids) and neck muscles as well as head shortness give this flat occiput impression.
- if a Dinaric instead has a long protruding arrow like back of the head , then it isn’t a Dinaric.

most middle aged Serbs i've seen have flat occipits. and i've never heard of any head binding practices.. not in the last 200 years

did this man get head binded as a child? :

https://i.imgur.com/KaeZP0Z.jpg

[Ford]

most middle aged Serbs i've seen have flat occipits. and i've never heard of any head binding practices.. not in the last 200 years

Both of my parents were binded as children and have flat occiputs, while my brother is meso and I am extremely dolicho (neither of us were binded). I asked my mother about this a while ago and she said this practice was common until like the 80's/early 90's.

[Jana]

most middle aged Serbs i've seen have flat occipits. and i've never heard of any head binding practices.. not in the last 200 years

did this man get head binded as a child? :

https://i.imgur.com/KaeZP0Z.jpg

Obviously, his skull is deformed.

[Ford]

I should clarify that they didn't bind their actual heads, but wrapped up toddlers and let them sleep on their backs. I think most children today sleep face down until a certain age.

[Jana]

I should clarify that they didn't bind their actual heads, but wrapped up toddlers and let them sleep on their backs. I think most children today sleep face down until a certain age.

Same. My father lied on his back all the time, today it's not recommended for children.

[Jana]

these photos are blurry. do you have some in better quality? maybe not from that same town but from that area.

These are from Drniš, also Dalmatian Hinterland:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfBV0kSQFGo

[Joso]

I think they are mostly atlanto-meds, with high dinarid and alpine influences

[Jana]

I think they are mostly atlanto-meds, with high dinarid and alpine influences

No. They are not short and swarthy.

[Joso]

No. They are not short and swarthy.

By atlanto-med i meant in the pontid way
By the way i have a huge vision problem( Keratoconus) , these guys ae too far apart, so i can be very wrong

[Jana]

By atlanto-med i meant in the pontid way
By the way i have a huge vision problem( Keratoconus) , these guys ae too far apart, so i can be very wrong

I imagine atlanto-med as black haired, short med type but bit less than gracile med who look basically Arab.
Coon mentioned Atlanto-Meds are common in coastal Dalmatia.

I think Atlantid fit better for them because it's taller and more brown than black haired ?

[Mr.G]

Same. My father lied on his back all the time, today it's not recommended for children.

Here in the US, we got the opposite advice. We were told to put our infants in the crib face up, and that this was shown to prevent SIDS. However, neither of my colicky children would sleep on their backs, so we caved and they mostly slept on their fronts.

So far, and they are young children still, my son has occiput projection. But my daughter is indeed plano-occipital. Same sleeping habits, different skull shape.

[Dominator]

They look Balkan for me

[Pribislav]

Balkans, a lot of them look like they can pass in Kosovo.


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Some Herzegovinian Croatians have Albanian origin. Catholic Albanians settled in W. Herzegovina in 17th century from Shkoder and Malesia. Nick for Herzegovinian Croatians is Škutori, that came from Scutari (Shkoder). There is full Croatian town Grude in W. Herzegovina, name Grude came from Albanian tribe Gruda from N. Albania.

[Jana]

Some Herzegovinian Croatians have Albanian origin. Catholic Albanians settled in W. Herzegovina in 17th century from Shkoder and Malesia. Nick for Herzegovinian Croatians is Škutori, that came from Scutari (Shkoder). There is full Croatian town Grude in W. Herzegovina, name Grude came from Albanian tribe Gruda from N. Albania.

No they don't, stop spreading nonsense. In this region I2-dinaric reaches absolutely maximum frequencies.
Croats never mixed with Albanians unlike Serbs, because unlike Serbs we don't border them.

Only exception are Arbanasi in Zadar.

Montenegrin and southern Serbs are much closer to Albanians ethnically and genetically, because some of them have actual Albanian origin.
Also Bosnian Serbs have much more of typical Albanian haplogroups compared to Croats.

Stop trolling.

[valentinavalley2]

Some Herzegovinian Croatians have Albanian origin. Catholic Albanianssettled in W. Herzegovinan in 17th century from Shkoder and Malesia. Nick for Herzegovinian Croatians is Škutori, that came from Scutari (Shkoder). There is full Croatian town Grude in W. Herzegovina, name Grude came from Albanian tribe Gruda from N. Albania.

I’m aware of that, there was this seaside me and my parents went to we couldn’t stop noticing how very Albanian some of the people looked there, we went into a restaurant and their menu surprisingly was also written in Albanian... but this was in Croatia proper not far from Bosnia.


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[Jana]

They look Balkan for me

Sorry but that is not valuable comment. Ofc they look Balkan, they are from fucking Balkans, what did you expect ?

[valentinavalley2]

No they don't, stop spreading nonsense. In this region I2-dinaric reaches absolutely maximum frequencies.
Croats never mixed with Albanians unlike Serbs, because unlike Serbs we don't border them.

Only exception are Arbanasi in Zadar.

Montenegrin and southern Serbs are much closer to Albanians ethnically and genetically, because some of them have actual Albanian origin.
Also Bosnian Serbs have much more of typical Albanian haplogroups compared to Croats.

Stop trolling.

I think he was talking about the Arbanasi... overall Montenegrin and Bosnians of Sandzak out of all south Slavs are genetically closest to Albanians.


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[Jana]

I’m aware of that, there was this seaside me and my parents went to we couldn’t stop noticing how very Albanian some of the people looked there, we went into a restaurant and their menu surprisingly was also written in Albanian... but this was in Croatia proper not far from Bosnia.


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Everything he wrote is a lie. Neither škutor has relation with Albanians neither name Grude (a Slavic word) has anything to do with Albanians. There was no Albanian migration into western Herzegovina.
He is just full of shit as usual.

[FountainOfSalmacis]

I saw mainly Alpines and Pontids with varying degrees of Dinarid influence.

[Dominator]

Sorry but that is not valuable comment. Ofc they look Balkan, they are from fucking Balkans, what did you expect ?

I mean that they will be more typical schoolchildren from the Balkans than Eastern Europe for example

[vbnetkhio]

Everything he wrote is a lie. Neither škutor has relation with Albanians neither name Grude (a Slavic word) has anything to do with Albanians. There was no Albanian migration into western Herzegovina.
He is just full of shit as usual.

what's the origin of the word Škutor in your opinion?

[Pribislav]

No they don't, stop spreading nonsense. In this region I2-dinaric reaches absolutely maximum frequencies.
Croats never mixed with Albanians unlike Serbs, because unlike Serbs we don't border them.

Only exception are Arbanasi in Zadar.

Montenegrin and southern Serbs are much closer to Albanians ethnically and genetically, because some of them have actual Albanian origin.
Also Bosnian Serbs have much more of typical Albanian haplogroups compared to Croats.

Stop trolling.


I think he was talking about the Arbanasi...


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Arbanasi near Zadar are croatized, it's well known. I thought about Albanian Catholic settlers in Herzegovina.
In villages Hrtkovci and Nikinci in Syrmia Kelmendi Albanians are croatized.
Look on history of villages
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hrtkovci
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nikinci

[valentinavalley2]

Everything he wrote is a lie. Neither škutor has relation with Albanians neither name Grude (a Slavic word) has anything to do with Albanians. There was no Albanian migration into western Herzegovina.
He is just full of shit as usual.

Skutor looks like the Albanian word Shkodër


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[Pribislav]

Everything he wrote is a lie. Neither škutor has relation with Albanians neither name Grude (a Slavic word) has anything to do with Albanians. There was no Albanian migration into western Herzegovina.
He is just full of shit as usual.

Have you ever heard for Albanian tribe Gruda?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruda_(tribe)

[valentinavalley2]

Have you ever heard for Albanian tribe Gruda?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gruda_(tribe)6

Yeah but the word Grude is a Slavic word, most likely they got that name because the Slavs wanted to Slavicise them.


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[Pribislav]

Everything he wrote is a lie. Neither škutor has relation with Albanians neither name Grude (a Slavic word) has anything to do with Albanians. There was no Albanian migration into western Herzegovina.
He is just full of shit as usual.

She is Croatian from Grude, and she look Albanian! http://www.grand.online/zvezde-granda/competitors/sanja-boban

[dududud]

I imagine atlanto-med as black haired, short med type but bit less than gracile med who look basically Arab.
Coon mentioned Atlanto-Meds are common in coastal Dalmatia.

I think Atlantid fit better for them because it's taller and more brown than black haired ?

It depends on the definition, what I saw: we consider many Sardinians as "gracile-med" but I of what I saw Sardinians (truly native, with genealogy over several generations): they have robust features and the most "graciles" do not look like Arabs.

I deduce that this "gracile-med" type is an invention that does not really exist and that does not really have a clear and precise definition: what are the measurements? We do not really know, since no one has given so far (I've never seen, anyway, I'm talking about all measurements, approximate or not).

[Columella]

It depends on the definition, what I saw: we consider many Sardinians as "gracile-med" but I of what I saw Sardinians (truly native, with genealogy over several generations): they have robust features and the most "graciles" do not look like Arabs.

I deduce that this "gracile-med" type is an invention that does not really exist and that does not really have a clear and precise definition: what are the measurements? We do not really know, since no one has given so far (I've never seen, anyway, I'm talking about all measurements, approximate or not).


That’s why it would be better to use Coon’s and Deniker’s taxonomy:
“Small Mediterranean” or “Ibero Insular”.

“Gracile” is misleading and regards mainly the skull and bone morphology.

[pelikarski]

Around 2/3's West Balkans with 1/3 looking Central European.

Mostly Dinarids, Alpines, some Pontids, some Carpathids. Can't see any that don't pass at least in Transylvania. Wouldn't call Bulgarian apart from some women I guess.

Women tend to have broader faces than the men, I noticed

[Kivan]

They look considerably more Med than the ones you posted in the previous thread(which looked shorter and more Alpinid, Dinarid and CM).

Mainly Atlanto-Meds, Alpine-Meds, Dinaro-Meds, Atlantids, Pontids;
Plus few Gracile-Meds, Dinaro-Pontids, East-Meds and North-Pontids.

[Insuperable]

Some Herzegovinian Croatians have Albanian origin. Catholic Albanians settled in W. Herzegovina in 17th century from Shkoder and Malesia. Nick for Herzegovinian Croatians is Škutori, that came from Scutari (Shkoder). There is full Croatian town Grude in W. Herzegovina, name Grude came from Albanian tribe Gruda from N. Albania.

Don't spread stupid theories as facts. Name Grude was attested a century before this alleged Albanian settlers, in 1575, and God knows for how long it existed before that with far more realistic explanation about its etymology. Croats called Serbs Grks, Vlachs as in Aromanians, Bulgarians and that doesn't make you all that. It is very much obvious that more than half of your posts including Serbs are a mix of historical facts and your own theories which you spread as facts. You can be forgiven for being stupid which you undoubtedly are, but not for being stupid and obnoxious at the same time. You wrote that for like 100 times and you seem to be on a standby just waiting for a chance when to write that.


what's the origin of the word Škutor in your opinion?

There is no consensus and there is no ultimate specific use of it. Based on records people from the very place this thread is about called islanders Škutori (for being cheap). Škrt mean cheap. People from Western Herzegovina called people from Imotski Škutori because they used specific type of shields they called Škut (Škutor is a Latin word for shield). People from Western Herzegovina might have been called Škutors for being on the border between the Venetian and Ottoman empire etc. It is and was just a stupid word and on Buzznian forums low IQ people people are making an elephant out of a fly, something what Pribislav does here.

[Jana]

Looking at it again they really have nothing in common with Albanians and look Croatian as hell. Albo members must have been trolling.


They look considerably more Med than the ones you posted in the previous thread(which looked shorter and more Alpinid, Dinarid and CM).

Mainly Atlanto-Meds, Alpine-Meds, Dinaro-Meds, Atlantids, Pontids;
Plus few Gracile-Meds, Dinaro-Pontids, East-Meds and North-Pontids.

Actually I see quite many northern types as well.

[MysteriousWays]

Atlantid/Pontid/North Pontid, with some Alpine and Dinarid influence (obviously this is not the predominant phenotype in the groups). Pass best in Croatia and immediate surrounding countries (Serbia, Bosnia), as well as individually in places ranging from Slovenia to perhaps Germany (as a group, they don't pass in Germany though)

[CommonSense]

Generally, they pass ok here, mainly in Western Serbia. The biggest difference is that there are barely any Pontids among them, mainly people with Dinarid/Norid features (but with long instead of flat skulls) and Alpines.

[Viridian1]

Dinaric-Gorid-Carpatid mix is very common in these pics, also Noric and Pontid.