G25 coordinates results

[xripkan]

Yesterday I got my G25 coordinates. Some users here gave me some guidance and I have used some calculators and models but I am still a little confused. Any help or comment about the results would be appreciated.

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Christos_scaled,0.118376,0.137096,0.005657,-0.024225,0.01908,-0.008925,0.0047,0.008077,-0.003681,0.020593,-0.002111,0.002398,0.001338,0.008945,-0.023615,-0.000265,0.005085,0.000127,0.003645,-0.002751,-0.00861,0,-0.006409,0.006145,-0.001557

,PC1,PC2,PC3,PC4,PC5,PC6,PC7,PC8,PC9,PC10,PC11,PC1 2,PC13,PC14,PC15,PC16,PC17,PC18,PC19,PC20,PC21,PC2 2,PC23,PC24,PC25
Christos,0.0104,0.0135,0.0015,-0.0075,0.0062,-0.0032,0.002,0.0035,-0.0018,0.0113,-0.0013,0.0016,0.0009,0.0065,-0.0174,-0.0002,0.0039,0.0001,0.0029,-0.0022,-0.0069,0,-0.0052,0.0051,-0.0013

Target: Christos_scaled
Distance: 3.0799% / 0.03079884
Aggregated
47.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
31.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
1.4 Han
1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
0.8 WHG

[Sche]

high component Yamnaya

[Voskos]

Can you model yourself using :
Italy_Villabruna
Levant_Natufian
Russia_MA1

If you ever do so I'd like to see the results.

[xripkan]

Can you model yourself using :
Italy_Villabruna
Levant_Natufian
Russia_MA1

If you ever do so I'd like to see the results.

What indicate these references?

[xripkan]

Can you model yourself using :
Italy_Villabruna
Levant_Natufian
Russia_MA1

If you ever do so I'd like to see the results.
These are my results
Italy_Villabruna 12.4
Levant_Natufian 58.0
Russia_MA1 29.6

[Voskos]

Nice.

[xripkan]

Nice.

Could you give an interpretation?

[Voskos]

I guess Villabruana acts here as a proxy for paleoeuropid western-type ancestry and MA1 reflects steppe admixture. Natufian on the other hand is the closest you can get to the first farmers from the fertile crescent that brought neolithic ancestry to Europe.

I hope this helps.

PS: you can use the same 3 way model for ancient greeks and other balkan ethnic groups to get an idea how you compare to them.

[Calpurnius]

Pinarbasi HG is included in G25 and should be used in place of Natufians, since it's older and according to the Dzudzuana paper likely represents a population closely related to paleolithic near east. Natufians themselves are basically Dzudzuana/Anatolia+Iberomaurusian.

[xripkan]

Is there a reference for ancient Illyrians?

[Voskos]

For ancient illyrians, there's some dalmatian genomes from croatia iirc.

[xripkan]

bump

[Mingle]

Which part(s) of Greece is your ancestry from?

[Lucas]

Target: Christos_scaled
Distance: 3.0799% / 0.03079884
Aggregated
47.6 Anatolia_Tepecik_Ciftlik_N
31.4 Yamnaya_RUS_Samara
17.8 Anatolia_Barcin_N
1.4 Han
1.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3
0.8 WHG

Maybe I'm wrong but most Greek users have some East-Asian noise in it. Really Turkish admixture is so evident?

[Voskos]

Lol, these polacks with their armchair calculators and their amateurish interpretations.
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/343/6172/747/F3.large.jpg

[xripkan]

Lol, these polacks with their armchair calculators and their amateurish interpretations.
https://science.sciencemag.org/content/sci/343/6172/747/F3.large.jpg

I also think that my east eurasian could be from Asian grouos like Avars, Khazars etc who came before the Ottomans.

[Rgvgjhvv]

That run's distance is way too high to even take it seriously

[catgeorge]

I also think that my east eurasian could be from Asian grouos like Avars, Khazars etc who came before the Ottomans.

Its noise through our Caucasian or Pontic/Caspian Steppe admixture.

[Mingle]

That run's distance is way too high to even take it seriously

Runs using ancient populations are supposed to give high distances due to genetic drift.

[Imperator Biff]

Is there a reference for ancient Illyrians?

Use HRV_IA for an Illyrian proxy.
Also don’t forget to model yourself using Avar_Szolad for the slavic component.

[Mingle]

When running you on my Neolithic Age calculator, you get minor South Asian-related ancestry (Simulated AASI samples) but no East Asian (Neolithic Mongolia) for some reason. It could just be some noise.


Target: Christos
Distance: 3.9330% / 0.03932974
Aggregated
68.4 Anatolia_NF
18.0 Eastern_HG
7.6 Caucasus_HG
2.6 Iran_NF
1.8 Baltic_HG
1.6 South_Eurasian

Most of the Yamnaya that Davidski gave you is split between EHG, CHG, and INF on my calculator whereas the Barcin and Tepecik-Ciftlik are both merged. So not too different to what Davidski gave you for the most part.

Here is the Greek average for comparison:


Target: Greek
Distance: 3.0683% / 0.03068281
Aggregated
66.6 Anatolia_NF
18.8 Eastern_HG
9.2 Caucasus_HG
3.4 Baltic_HG
2.0 Iran_NF

[Token]

Try Myceanaean and Slavic_Bohemia.

[J. Ketch]

[1] "distance%=2.0338"

Christos_scaled

CZE_Early_Slav,37
GRC_Minoan_Lassithi,32.8
Levant_ISR_Ashkelon_LBA,10.6
Anatolia_IA,7.6
Anatolia_Isparta_EBA,4.8
ITA_Collegno_MA,4.8
Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,2.4

[J. Ketch]

Use HRV_IA for an Illyrian proxy.
Also don’t forget to model yourself using Avar_Szolad for the slavic component.
[1] "distance%=1.858"

Christos_scaled

GRC_Minoan_Lassithi,34.8
HUN_Avar_Szolad,27.8
Anatolia_IA,10.4
Levant_ISR_Ashkelon_LBA,8.8
CZE_Early_Slav,7.6
Anatolia_Isparta_EBA,6.6
Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3,1.8
Yamnaya_Samara,1.2
ITA_Collegno_MA,1

[xripkan]

I tried to make a model with Late Bronze Age populations for ancient Greek/Mediterranean part and Medieval for Slavic and East Eurasian.
distance 0.02013017
Anatolia_IA 1.4
Baltic_LTU_BA 7
BGR_IA 18.6
CZE_Early_Slav 1.8
GRC_Mycenaean 17.8
HUN_Avar_Szolad 16.6
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 22
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA 7.6
IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA3 1.4
KAZ_Golden_Horde_Asian 0.8
Levant_ISR_Ashkelon_LBA 5

I tried to use also Anatolia Kaman-Kalehoyuk and some Illyrians proxies but the result was 0. I want to help me understand if my model makes sense indeed. I can see that Mycenean+Empuries is about 40%. The Slavic compnents are about 25%. The Turkic is 0.8% and the rest is Iranian/Caucasian mostly from Iron Age 9% and Levantine from Late Bronze Age 5%. Do they indicate Caucasian and Phoenician origin according to this model or they are part of Mycenean ancestry? This part has confused me and I would like anyone who knows to help.

[Voskos]

Iirc Iran_Neo is also found in both Southern Italians and Sardinians, so nothing really surprising about it here. See this paper for example

In Sardinia, we find no evidence of either eastern ancestry type in the Nuragic Bronze Age, but show that Iranian-related ancestry arrived by at least ∼300 BCE and Steppe ancestry arrived by ∼300 CE, joined at that time or later by North African ancestry.

And


Meanwhile on Crete in the eastern Mediterranean, there was little if any Steppe ancestry identified in all
published samples from the Middle to Late Bronze Age “Minoan” culture (individuals dating to 2400-
1700 BCE), although these individuals derived about 15% of their ancestry from groups related to
early Iranian farmers (from here on referred to as “Iranian-related ancestry”)https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/584714v1

[xripkan]

Iirc Iran_Neo is also found in both Southern Italians and Sardinians, so nothing really surprising about it here. See this paper for example


And

https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/584714v1

I tried another model with Iron Age samples from Ancinet Greece. If I remove the Iron Age Iran populations the Ancient Greek components increase but the distance becomes bigger. Furthermore, a substitute of the Iron Age is the Anatolia Kaman-Kalehoyuk which is Proto-Anatolian/Luwian or maybe Hettite.
Distance 0.01833170,
IND_Roopkund_B 23.6
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 26.2
Baltic_EST_MA 21
Golden_Horde_Asian 0.4
IND_Roopkund_A 1.4
HRV_Vucedol 14.2
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA 13.2

I compared my results to the average Greek which scores also Iran but Hansalu_IA. I changed the Iron Age samples with Minoan and the Iranian increased a lot which makes sense. IND_Roopkund_B is a group from Iron Age Crete,Mainland Greece and maybe South Italian.

[xripkan]

Try Myceanaean and Slavic_Bohemia.

Slavic Bohemia is the CZE_EARLY_SLAV?

[Token]

Slavic Bohemia is the CZE_EARLY_SLAV?

Yes. The idea of G25 is to select populations that makes sense considering the history of your country.

[xripkan]

Yes. The idea of G25 is to select populations that makes sense considering the history of your country.

From all the Slavic references I used included the Cze early Slav, the Medieval Baltic gave the smallest distance. Look at the model I made it has quite low distance
Distance 0.01833170,
IND_Roopkund_B 23.6
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 26.2
Baltic_EST_MA 21
Golden_Horde_Asian 0.4
IND_Roopkund_A 1.4
HRV_Vucedol 14.2
IRN_Hajji_Firuz_IA 13.2
What do you think?

[xripkan]

Distance 0.02497501
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 61
Baltic_LTU_BA 15.6
Paniya 2.2
Sarmatian_RUS_Pokrovka 4.6
Scythian_MDA 16.6

This one indicates a mix of Ancient Greek, Daco-Thracian,Scytho-Sarmatian and Slavic ancestry with some minor South Asian!

[Mingle]

Distance 0.02497501
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 61
Baltic_LTU_BA 15.6
Paniya 2.2
Sarmatian_RUS_Pokrovka 4.6
Scythian_MDA 16.6

This one indicates a mix of Ancient Greek, Daco-Thracian,Scytho-Sarmatian and Slavic ancestry with some minor South Asian!Why are you using Empuries instead of Mycenean for Ancient Greek?

[Voskos]

I think you should use a model including these:

Cze early slav
Mycenaean
Vucedol(for illyrian ancestry)
Han
Mozabite or ethiopian (as a north african source)
Iron age ashkelon as a levant source like you did above
Some source for anatolian ancestry, preferably some ancient armenian sample if available

[xripkan]

Why are you using Empuries instead of Mycenean for Ancient Greek?

I prefer it because it is almost identical to Myceneans and more modern (about 1000 years later). I used BA slavic as Proto-Slavic in order to distinguish Scytho-Sarmatian and Thracian from Proto-Slavic ancestry. Of course Scythian MDA is only about 40% SCythian and the rest is Thracian.

[xripkan]

I think you should use a model including these:

Cze early slav
Mycenaean
Vucedol(for illyrian ancestry)
Han
Mozabite or ethiopian (as a north african source)
Iron age ashkelon as a levant source like you did above
Some source for anatolian ancestry, preferably some ancient armenian sample if available

Anatolia has experience very extensive genetic changes since paleolithic age and it is not a good idea to use it with Myceneans because in many cases there is overlappig at the genetic components. To chech a possible ancestry from there is better to check if you have more Chg than that the Myceneans brought. However in some cases you could have some more without having Anatolian ancestry because the steppe populations who came in middle-ages carried it. The North African component gave me zero. I used LBA levantine because I read the IA had some European admixture.

Distance 0.02614905
CZE_Early_Slav, 37.8
GRC_Mycenaean, 42.6
HRV_Vucedol, 3.2
Levant_ISR_MLBA, 13.8
Paniya 2.6

[Mingle]

I prefer it because it is almost identical to Myceneans and more modern (about 1000 years later). I used BA slavic as Proto-Slavic in order to distinguish Scytho-Sarmatian and Thracian from Proto-Slavic ancestry. Of course Scythian MDA is only about 40% SCythian and the rest is Thracian.

Okay. And I'm guessing you're using Baltic BA cause the Slavic sample overfits with Scythians?

Where do you think your South Asian is coming from?

Also, which part of Greece are you from?

[xripkan]

Okay. And I'm guessing you're using Baltic BA cause the Slavic sample overfits with Scythians?

Where do you think your South Asian is coming from?

Also, which part of Greece are you from?

Exactly, I try to use distant populations with no overlapping. The Slavic Czech seems to have some affinities with European Scythians. I am mostly from Peloponnese and I have also some ancestry from Thessaly. I have no idea about the South Asian. It seems that I also have a little East Asian and some Levantine influences. I am closer to Tepecik and no to Barcin like Myceneans. The difference is that Tepecik is more Leventine-like. When I remove the Tepecik from the the model Davidski gave me I score very high Barcin like Mycenean and Iron Age sample but I also score about 5% PPNB which is proto-Levantine and this lacks from Myceneans at this model.

[xripkan]

With modern populations

Distance 0.02408022

Italian_Apulia 80.8
Mongolian 1.4
Ukrainian 16.8
Lebanese_Christian 1.0

[xripkan]

Distance 0.02189299

Mongolian 1
Lebanese_Christian 6.6
Bulgarian 45.8
Italian_Apulia 46.6

[xripkan]

I made also a model trying to combine ancient Greek and modern populations. I used populations with no affinities to ancient Greeks. The best reference for Slavic reference in my case was the Ukraine while the best for Middle Eastern/Anatolia part were the Assyrians and after them the Lebanese Christians. I used only Assyrians though in order to limit the number of references.

Distance
Iberia_Northeast_Empuries2 51
Ukrainian 31.8
Mongolian 1.4
Assyrian 15.8