Arvanite Music

[Xz2k9]

I doubt any Greeks understand this but I do xD



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vewHKySSM

[Epirus DNA]

I doubt any Greeks understand this but I do xD

HAHAHA @ YOUTUBE VIDEOS
HAHAHA @ ALBANIAN TRANSLATIONS OF GREEK SONGS

The entire Souliote Music Cycle was GREEK. Albanians did not start transposing Greek Warrior Poems of the Souliotes until after their defeat in 1803. You think that's an Albanian song?! You actually think that Albanians were writing Warrior Poems like the Ancient Greeks about Killing Turkish and Albanian soldiers?!!

Do the research! Read a book! Try reading the Souliote Music Cycle: Chants populaires de la Grèce moderne by Claude Charles Fauriel

LINK:
https://books.google.com/books/about/Chants_populaires_de_la_Grèce_moderne.html?id=Tw07 AAAAcAAJ

I doubt a Barbarian like you can read French or Greek. Here is a taste of the English Translation.

https://i.imgur.com/dXl49tS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AvrsD0f.jpg

[Alboz]

It's natural that you understand them, Arvanitika is a sub-dialcet of Tosk. Every Albanian can understand them.

The most beautiful Arvanite song is this one i think:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhwOGCiDryo

This other one isn't bad too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbapFtGX4mU

[Alboz]

Arvanite performing with the Albanian cifteli:

https://www.facebook.com/100010181854634/videos/821775791505142/

[Cleitus]

Do ta pres kocidhete

https://youtu.be/6u8MPuRS6Ls

[Alboz]

Do ta pres kocidhete
https://youtu.be/6u8MPuRS6Ls

Better quality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55USbm8NdLA

[Cleitus]

Better quality:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=55USbm8NdLA
Do ta pres eshte normale, nto ja paska ba ky hahaha.

https://youtu.be/a7_arYYFV-o

[valentinavalley2]

HAHAHA @ YOUTUBE VIDEOS
HAHAHA @ ALBANIAN TRANSLATIONS OF GREEK SONGS

The entire Souliote Music Cycle was GREEK. Albanians did not start transposing Greek Warrior Poems of the Souliotes until after their defeat in 1803. You think that's an Albanian song?! You actually think that Albanians were writing Warrior Poems like the Ancient Greeks about Killing Turkish and Albanian soldiers?!!

Do the research! Read a book! Try reading the Souliote Music Cycle: Chants populaires de la Grèce moderne by Claude Charles Fauriel

LINK:
https://books.google.com/books/about/Chants_populaires_de_la_Grèce_moderne.html?id=Tw07 AAAAcAAJ

I doubt a Barbarian like you can read French or Greek. Here is a taste of the English Translation.

https://i.imgur.com/dXl49tS.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/AvrsD0f.jpg

Arvanite is an Albanian language, it’s not Ancient Greek, it has Greek influences however the root of Arvanite is Illyrian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Petros Houhoulis]

I doubt any Greeks understand this but I do xD



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M0vewHKySSM

We do not need and we do not care to understand it. Most modern Arvanites don't understand it either, but they do understand what to do with you if you bump upon them, purely by accident...

[Ujku]

Arvanites are lost , they have become Grek maskaradhes...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Arvanite is an Albanian language, it’s not Ancient Greek, it has Greek influences however the root of Arvanite is Illyrian.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

We know too little about Illyrian to judge how much is Albanian related to it, and which sort of Illyrian, because not all Illyrians spoke the same dialects or even languages, for sure...

[Petros Houhoulis]

Arvanites are lost , they have become Grek maskaradhes...

You are even more lost, you are a canine maskaras.

[Epirus DNA]

Arvanite is an Albanian language, it’s not Ancient Greek, it has Greek influences however the root of Arvanite is Illyrian.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk


Λεξικόν της Ρωμαϊκοις και Αρβανητηκής Απλής
The original manuscript of the dictionary is at the National Library in Paris. Botsaris titled his dictionary “Lexicon of the simple Romaic and Arbanitic language” (Λεξικόν της Ρωμαϊκοις και Αρβανητηκής Απλής).

The Greek terms are in columns on the left of the pages, not in alphabetical order, and the Albanian words on the right, written in Greek letters. Apart from single words, the dictionary includes complexes of words or short phrases. The Greek entries are in total 1701 and the Albanian 1494.

On the first page there is a hand-written notice by Pouqueville: “Ce lexique est écrit de la main de Marc Botzari à Corfou 1809 devant moi.” This manuscript, which includes also a kind of Greek–Albanian self-teaching method with dialogues written by Ioannes Vilaras and a French-Albanian glossary by Pouqueville, was donated by the latter to the Library in 1819. The dictionary was dictated to the young M. Botsaris by his father Kitsos (1754–1813), his uncle Notis (1759–1841) and his father-in-law Christakis Kalogerou from Preveza.

Titos Yochalas, a Greek historian who studied and edited the manuscript, noticing that some Greek words are translated into Albanian in more than one way, believes that M. Botsaris was writing the Greek words and the elders were translating into Albanian. As many of the entries seem unlikely to be useful either for the Suliots or the Albanians of that time and circumstances, Yochalas believes that the dictionary was composed after Pouqueville’s initiative, possibly as a source for a future French-Albanian dictionary. He also observes that the Albanian phrases are syntaxed as if were Greek, concluding that either the mother tongue of the authors was the Greek or the Greek language had a very strong influence on the Albanian, if the latter was possibly spoken in Souli (Yochalas, p. 53).

The Albanian idiom of the dictionary belongs to the Tosk dialect of south Albanian and retains many archaic elements, found also in the dialect spoken by the Greco-Albanian communities of South Italy and Sicily. In the Albanian entries there are many loans from Greek (approx. 510), as well as from Turkish (approx. 190) and Italian (21).

[Epirus DNA]

It's natural that you understand them, Arvanitika is a sub-dialcet of Tosk. Every Albanian can understand them.

The most beautiful Arvanite song is this one i think:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nhwOGCiDryo

This other one isn't bad too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FbapFtGX4mU

Nobody understands nor cares about your shitty Albanian translations of Greek Folk Music and Warrior Poems.

[E24-H08]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CvrVgGKHiXI/UFI-V2FqSZI/AAAAAAAAA_I/A_i6dTQQHlI/s1600/diagram.png

Arvanitika was brought to southern Greece during the late Middle Ages by settlers from what is today Albania. Arvanitika is also closely related to Arbëresh, the dialect of Albanian in Italy, which largely goes back to Arvanite settlers from Greece. Italian Arbëresh has retained some words borrowed from Greek (for instance haristis 'thank you', from ευχαριστώ; dhrom 'road', from δρόμος; Ne 'yes', from ναι, in certain villages). Italo-Arbëresh and Graeco-Arvanitika have a mutually intelligible vocabulary base, the unintelligible elements of the two dialects stem from the usage of Italian or Greek modernisms in the absence of native ones.

While linguistic scholarship unanimously describes Arvanitika as a dialect of Albanian[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-10) many Arvanites are reported to dislike the use of the name "Albanian" to designate it,[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-10) as it carries the connotation of Albanian nationality and is thus felt to call their Greek identity into question.

Sociolinguistic work[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-11) has described Arvanitika within the conceptual framework of "ausbausprachen" and "abstandssprachen".[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-12) In terms of "abstand" (objective difference of the linguistic systems), linguists' assessment of the degree of mutual intelligibility between Arvanitika and Standard Tosk range from fairly high[13] to only partial (Ethnologue). The Ethnologue also mentions that mutual intelligibility may even be problematic between different subdialects within Arvanitika. Mutual intelligibility between Standard Tosk and Arvanitika is higher than that between the two main dialect groups within Albanian, Tosk and Gheg. See below for a sample text in the three language forms. Trudgill (2004: 5) sums up that "[l]inguistically, there is no doubt that [Arvanitika] is a variety of Albanian".

You are incredibly daft. :picard1:

[Epirus DNA]

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-CvrVgGKHiXI/UFI-V2FqSZI/AAAAAAAAA_I/A_i6dTQQHlI/s1600/diagram.png

Arvanitika was brought to southern Greece during the late Middle Ages by settlers from what is today Albania. Arvanitika is also closely related to Arbëresh, the dialect of Albanian in Italy, which largely goes back to Arvanite settlers from Greece. Italian Arbëresh has retained some words borrowed from Greek (for instance haristis 'thank you', from ευχαριστώ; dhrom 'road', from δρόμος; Ne 'yes', from ναι, in certain villages). Italo-Arbëresh and Graeco-Arvanitika have a mutually intelligible vocabulary base, the unintelligible elements of the two dialects stem from the usage of Italian or Greek modernisms in the absence of native ones.

While linguistic scholarship unanimously describes Arvanitika as a dialect of Albanian[10] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-10) many Arvanites are reported to dislike the use of the name "Albanian" to designate it,[9] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-10) as it carries the connotation of Albanian nationality and is thus felt to call their Greek identity into question.

Sociolinguistic work[11] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-11) has described Arvanitika within the conceptual framework of "ausbausprachen" and "abstandssprachen".[12] (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanitika#cite_note-12) In terms of "abstand" (objective difference of the linguistic systems), linguists' assessment of the degree of mutual intelligibility between Arvanitika and Standard Tosk range from fairly high[13] to only partial (Ethnologue). The Ethnologue also mentions that mutual intelligibility may even be problematic between different subdialects within Arvanitika. Mutual intelligibility between Standard Tosk and Arvanitika is higher than that between the two main dialect groups within Albanian, Tosk and Gheg. See below for a sample text in the three language forms. Trudgill (2004: 5) sums up that "[l]inguistically, there is no doubt that [Arvanitika] is a variety of Albanian".

You are incredibly daft. :picard1:

HAHAHAHA @ You forgot to take out the Wikipedia indentations.

Arvanitika is a mix between Italian, Greek, Turkish, and Albanian. It has more LOAN WORDS from Greek than any other Language--- including Albanian. You're an idiot.

[Hulu]

HAHAHAHA @ You forgot to take out the Wikipedia indentations.

Arvanitika is a mix between Italian, Greek, Turkish, and Albanian. It has more LOAN WORDS from Greek than any other Language--- including Albanian. You're an idiot.

Arbereshe come mostly from the Arvanite, their Albanian is pretty pure.

[Epirus DNA]

Arbereshe come mostly from the Arvanite, their Albanian is pretty pure.

There are no monolingual Arvanitika-speakers. They are all bilingual in Greek. Many features of the Arbereshe language was lost in mainstream Albanian Tosk. Italian Arbereshe has retained some words borrowed from Greek (for instance haristis 'thank you', from ευχαριστώ; dhrom 'road', from δρόμος; Ne 'yes', from ναι, in certain villages). Arvanitika shares many features with the Tosk dialect spoken in Southern Albania. However, it has received a great deal of influence from Greek, mostly related to the vocabulary and the phonological system. This is why Markos Botsaris dictionary showed more Greek Loan Words than Albanian.

[Hulu]

There are no monolingual Arvanitika-speakers. They are all bilingual in Greek. Many features of the Arbereshe language was lost in mainstream Albanian Tosk. Italian Arbereshe has retained some words borrowed from Greek (for instance haristis 'thank you', from ευχαριστώ; dhrom 'road', from δρόμος; Ne 'yes', from ναι, in certain villages). Arvanitika shares many features with the Tosk dialect spoken in Southern Albania. However, it has received a great deal of influence from Greek, mostly related to the vocabulary and the phonological system. This is why Markos Botsaris dictionary showed more Greek Loan Words than Albanian.

So some villages have 3 Greek words they are bilingual? I have spoken with Arbereshe in Italy, pure and clean Albanian they speak. Arvanite may have borrowed the Greek words much later.

We already dissussed.Bocari, he was part of the Albanian division while a Greek one existed. Case closed.

[Epirus DNA]

So some villages have 3 Greek words they are bilingual? I have spoken with Arbereshe in Italy, pure and clean Albanian they speak. Arvanite may have borrowed the Greek words much later.

We already dissussed.Bocari, he was part of the Albanian division while a Greek one existed. Case closed.

The name has nothing to do with linguistic "purity" or lack thereof. It is merely a reflection of the fact that Arvanitika is an "Albanian" language spoken by Greeks, just like Judaeo-Spanish is the Spanish spoken by Jews, not a mixture of Castilian and Hebrew.

[Hulu]

The name has nothing to do with linguistic "purity" or lack thereof. It is merely a reflection of the fact that Arvanitika is an "Albanian" language spoken by Greeks, just like Judaeo-Spanish is the Spanish spoken by Jews, not a mixture of Castilian and Hebrew.

Again, Arbereshe come from Arvanite and they speak and identify as Albanian. They were mistakenly labelled as greek because of their religion ( and maybe some of them spoke greek too), but with time it was clarified they were indeed Albanian, hence why Mussolini changed the name from Piana dei Grecci to Piana dei Albanesi. Don't let the greek propaganda convince you as otherwise. How you identify personally, or how some arvanites identify now it's another matter. That doesn't change the fact they were Albanians who were greekified.
Fun fact: Jennifer Aniston's great grandfather had the last name Greko, from the Arbereshe of Italy. When he came to America more than a century ago he declared himself Albanian on Ellis Island.

I understand this is a touchy issue for you personally but I will stop arguing with you here as it's a waste of time at this point.

[Epirus DNA]

Again, Arbereshe come from Arvanite and they speak and identify as Albanian. They were mistakenly labelled as greek because of their religion ( and maybe some of them spoke greek too), but with time it was clarified they were indeed Albanian, hence why Mussolini changed the name from Piana dei Grecci to Piana dei Albanesi. Don't let the greek propaganda convince you as otherwise. How you identify personally, or how some arvanites identify now it's another matter. That doesn't change the fact they were Albanians who were greekified.
Fun fact: Jennifer Aniston's great grandfather had the last name Greko, from the Arbereshe of Italy. When he came to America more than a century ago he declared himself Albanian on Ellis Island.

I understand this is a touchy issue for you personally but I will stop arguing with you here as it's a waste of time at this point.

You're talking about the Arbereshe in Italy and I am talking about Arvanites in Greece. We are talking about two separate subjects and you're trying to square a circle. Don't let the post-communist Albanian propaganda convince you everyone is Albanian.

[Epirus DNA]

Arvanites... Greek.
Self-Hating Albanians... Greekified.

Greek Minority in Albania... still fighting for Freedom and Autonomy

[kefalonitis]

When the Arvanites came to Greece they where Roman(Byzantine) citizens and loyal to Constantinople.
Roman identity pre-existed the albanian and the attempts to pass them as ''albanians'' is pseudo-history
and historical revisionism.
Today,the only population outside Greece related to them is the Greek minority of Northern Epirus(they are actually the same people).
They originated from Despotate of Epirus(former theme of Dyrrhachium) and settled to Greece during the 14th century after being invited
by emperor Andronikos III Palaiologos and the despotes of Morea Manuel Kantakouzenos and Theodore I Palaiologos.Anyone can understand that those Byzantine rulers where not fools to establish communities of completely foreign people within the Greek populations.
It is a fact that the Greeks never opposed to the presence of arvanite people or viewed them as foreigners and the Arvanites never forced to adopt greek culture because when they arrived in Greek territories they were already part of the hellenic world.

[Epirus DNA]

When the Arvanites came to Greece they where Roman(Byzantine) citizens and loyal to Constantinople.
Roman identity pre-existed the albanian and the attempts to pass them as ''albanians'' is pseudo-history
and historical revisionism.
Today,the only population outside Greece related to them is the Greek minority of Northern Epirus(they are actually the same people).
They originated from Despotate of Epirus(former theme of Dyrrhachium) and settled to Greece during the 14th century after being invited
by emperor Andronikos III Palaiologos and the despotes of Morea Manuel Kantakouzenos and Theodore I Palaiologos.Anyone can understand that those Byzantine rulers where not fools to establish communities of completely foreign people within the Greek populations.
It is a fact that the Greeks never opposed to the presence of arvanite people or viewed them as foreigners and the Arvanites never forced to adopt greek culture because when they arrived in Greek territories they were already part of the hellenic world.

This is good stuff and almost all correct. The Greek Minority in Albania are not all part of this group-- although some are. Depending on the village, a large group of the them are Mollosai. There are villages where the women and children still do no speak Albanian. They never have, only Greek.

[Epirus DNA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ViiXmRMmgW4

[Xz2k9]

Arvanite language is ancient Greek ? :lol:

[Xz2k9]

You're talking about the Arbereshe in Italy and I am talking about Arvanites in Greece. We are talking about two separate subjects and you're trying to square a circle. Don't let the post-communist Albanian propaganda convince you everyone is Albanian.

Arvanite was a medieval word used to refer to Albanians. All Albanians at one point were referred to as Arvanite by the Greeks. Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. And later Shqiptar.

Turks called Arnavut … these three words, Arvanite, Arnavut, Arbereshe, all have the same meaning and origin which means ALBANIAN.... and South Slavs called us Arbanas.

There was a branch of Southern Albanian Orthodox that migrated to Greece and contributed to the war of independence there (Souliotes for example) and another branch that migrated to Italy and are known as Arbereshe.


You're living in denial and claiming them as Albanian speaking Greeks is funny. Why would Greeks refer to them by an Albanian name ?

Most of the so called ''Greeks'' in Albania are Vlachs .


You're just butthurt that some Tosk Orthodox liberated your country clearly and not Greeks themselves.

It's a pity they helped you indeed instead of contributing to their own country. So to me they are a lost cause but it still feels good to rub it under your skin :)

[Epirus DNA]

Arvanite language is ancient Greek ? :lol:

In your wildest far-right Albanian dreams! haha

Arvanitika is an "Albanian" language that shares many features with the Tosk dialect spoken in Southern Albania... but it has received a great deal of influence from Greek, mostly related to the vocabulary and the phonological system. Arvanitika was the "Lingua Franca" in Epirus during the Ottoman Empire-- spoken by Greeks, Slavs, Albanians. There are so many stories of Greek Kelphts pretending to be Albanian in order to survive the Turks and Albanian Brigands. The women never left the village and only spoke Greek. All the men in Eprius spoke some for of Arvanitika between 1775 - 1914

[Epirus DNA]

Arvanite was a medieval word used to refer to Albanians. All Albanians at one point were referred to as Arvanite by the Greeks. Albanians called themselves Arbereshe. And later Shqiptar.

Turks called Arnavut … these three words, Arvanite, Arnavut, Arbereshe, all have the same meaning and origin which means ALBANIAN.... and South Slavs called us Arbanas.

There was a branch of Southern Albanian Orthodox that migrated to Greece and contributed to the war of independence there (Souliotes for example) and another branch that migrated to Italy and are known as Arbereshe.

You're living in denial and claiming them as Albanian speaking Greeks is funny. Why would Greeks refer to them by an Albanian name ?

Most of the so called ''Greeks'' in Albania are Vlachs .

You're just butthurt that some Tosk Orthodox liberated your country clearly and not Greeks themselves.

It's a pity they helped you indeed instead of contributing to their own country. So to me they are a lost cause but it still feels good to rub it under your skin :)

The Souliotes were NOT a tribe of Ethnic Albanians :rotfl: The Souliotes were an Ottoman Confederacy that grew to 12,000 people ranging 60 villages. The following 7 Families started the Tetra-Hori. They were NOT Albanians either. I know you get your history from YouTube and crazy Albanian propaganda.... here are "7 Family Founders" of Suli

#1) The family of the Zervatis from Arta
#2) The family of the Botsaritis from Dragani, four hours from Paramithia
#3) The family of the Dractis from Martani, in the province of Lamari
#4) The family of the Buzbatis from Valachi
#5) The family of Dancliatis from Fanari
#6) The family of the Zabellatis from an unknown village
#7) The family of the Pasatis from an unknown village

[Epirus DNA]

You're living in denial and claiming them as Albanian speaking Greeks is funny. Why would Greeks refer to them by an Albanian name ?

You make zero sense. After the Greek Revolution, the time frame between 1832-1914 Greeks were being massacred in Epirus by Albanians and Turks for being GREEK. The Greek Resistance was strong... and many Klephts and Brigands formed during that time frame. There was constant revolts and large revolts like the Epirus Revolt of 1854 and the Epirus Revolt of 1878. As we are getting closer to the Balkan Wars, the new Greek State supported the Ipirotiki Eteria and was one of the major factors in Freeing Epirus. Northern Epirus was liberated 3 times from Albanians between 1914-1944. The term Arvanite was used for a multitude of reasons. Yes, groups and villages of Arvanites were actually Albanian. On the other hand, groups and villages of "Arvanites" were ethnic-Greeks who were bi-lingual in Arvanitika and Greek. You can't make a mass generalization on ethnicity by cherry picking facts. That's the problem with the Modern Albanian ethos... thinking everyone is Albanian. It's ridiculously stupid, especially to Greek Epirotes.

[E24-H08]

Epirus DNA... Deluded

[E24-H08]

HAHAHAHA @ You forgot to take out the Wikipedia indentations.

What the hell do you mean by indentations? Do you mean citations?


Arvanitika is a mix between Italian, Greek, Turkish, and Albanian. It has more LOAN WORDS from Greek than any other Language--- including Albanian. You're an idiot.

And yet you can't understand a lick, while I can. Piss off you mug.

[Kamal900]

Do the Arvanites still identify themselves as Tosk Albanians?

[Epirus DNA]

What the hell do you mean by indentations? Do you mean citations?

And yet you can't understand a lick, while I can. Piss off you mug.

You can have your trash Turko-Albanian language back. We only needed it to survive under Ottoman Occupation.

I'll piss all over you and your ancestors graves. I guarantee my great-grand father enjoyed killing your distant cousins.

[Epirus DNA]

Do the Arvanites still identify themselves as Tosk Albanians?

No. 99% identify as Greek. It is the new modern far right post-Enver Hoxha Albanian Ethos that wants to claim the world as pure and true Ethnic Albanians.

Arvanites is used for Albanains who became Greek, Greco-Albanians mixed households, or Bi-Lingual Greeks from Epirus. It is truly a case by case, family history thing. Don't listen to these far right Albanians and their BS.

[Epirus DNA]

...

Xz2k9 = E24-H08

Same Person HAHAHAHAHA

You need a 2nd Troll Account to Troll your own Threads :rotfl:

[Epirus DNA]

And yet you can't understand a lick, while I can. Piss off you mug.

Are you mad that Greeks were smart enough to create Arvanitika for survival?!
Are you even more mad that a couple hundred thousand Albanians would rather be Greek than whatever the fuck you are??

[Kamal900]

No. 99% identify as Greek. It is the new modern far right post-Enver Hoxha Albanian Ethos that wants to claim the world as pure and true Ethnic Albanians.

Arvanites is used for Albanains who became Greek, Greco-Albanians mixed households, or Bi-Lingual Greeks from Epirus. It is truly a case by case, family history thing. Don't listen to these far right Albanians and their BS.

It makes sense considering that they came from Albania due to Islamization by the Ottoman empire and fled to Greece for safety.


Arvanites (Greek: Αρβανίτες, Arvanítes; Arvanitika: Arbëreshë / Αρbε̰ρεσ̈ε̰ or Arbërorë) are a bilingual[1] population group in Greece who traditionally speak Arvanitika, an Albanian language variety, along with Greek. They settled in southern Greece during the late Middle Ages and were the dominant population element in parts of the Peloponnese, Attica and Boeotia until the 19th century.[2] Arvanites today self-identify as Greeks[3][4][5] as a result of a process of assimilation, and do not consider themselves Albanian.[6] They call themselves Arvanites (in Greek) and Arbëror (in their language). Arvanitika is in a state of attrition due to language shift towards Greek and large-scale internal migration to the cities and subsequent intermingling of the population during the 20th century.

In many instances the Arvanites were invited by the Byzantine and Latin rulers of the time. They were employed to re-settle areas that had been largely depopulated through wars, epidemics, and other reasons, and they were employed as soldiers.[12][13] Some later movements are also believed to have been motivated to evade Islamization after the Ottoman conquest. The main waves of migration into southern Greece started around 1300, reached a peak some time during the 14th century, and ended around 1600.[14] Arvanites first reached Thessaly, then Attica, and finally the Peloponnese.[15]
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arvanites

So yeah. Most if not all identify themselves as Greeks the same way that the Lebanese Maronites identify themselves also as Greeks first in Cyprus.

[E24-H08]

You can have your trash Turko-Albanian language back. We only needed it to survive under Ottoman Occupation.

Our language is Indo-European, with very few Turkish words.


I'll piss all over you and your ancestors graves. I guarantee my great-grand father enjoyed killing your distant cousins.

Well, that's not very nice. You seem to be a real tough guy, but I doubt you'd say such a thing face-to-face.

Anyway, I don't want to waste my time with a primitive animal such a yourself, so farewell you bestial Greek ape.

[E24-H08]

Xz2k9 = E24-H08

Same Person HAHAHAHAHA

You need a 2nd Troll Account to Troll your own Threads :rotfl:

Nah, I'm new on this forum.

[E24-H08]

Are you mad that Greeks were smart enough to create Arvanitika for survival?!
Are you even more mad that a couple hundred thousand Albanians would rather be Greek than whatever the fuck you are??

Seems as though I've ruffled your feathers a little bit. ;)

[Epirus DNA]

Our language is Indo-European, with very few Turkish words.

Well, that's not very nice. You seem to be a real tough guy, but I doubt you'd say such a thing face-to-face.

Anyway, I don't want to waste my time with a primitive animal such a yourself, so farewell you bestial Greek ape.

I would gleefully slap the shit out of your 5 foot nothing Albanian ass face to face.

[Epirus DNA]

Seems as though I've ruffled your feathers a little bit. ;)

:lol00002: I love it

[E24-H08]

I would gleefully slap the shit out of your 5 foot nothing Albanian ass face to face.

Alright, I'll take your word for it, you keyboard warrior. :wink

[Epirus DNA]

Alright, I'll take your word for it, you keyboard warrior. :wink

As you should. BTW-- your Hero is GREEK. Georgios Kastriotis was an Ethnic GREEK!

HIS GRANDFATHER WAS THE LEADER OF THE EMATHIA-KASTORIA TOWNS IN THE MACEDONIAN TERRITORY OF NORTHWEST GREECE! (KASTORIOTIS FROM KASTORIA LATER KASTRIOTIS)(+1390) HIS NAME WAS KONSTANTINOS KASTRIOTIS AND HIS SON IOANNES KASTRIOTIS, THE LEADER OF KROYA, HAD THE SERBIAN VOISHAVA AS HIS WIFE AND THEY HAD NINE CHILDREN! ONE OF THEM WAS THE PROUD GREEK GEORGIOS KASTRIOTIS HE WAS THEIR LAST CHILD (1405)

KASTRIOTIS HAD THE ANCIENT MACEDONIAN HELMET ON HIS HEAD BECAUSE HE CAME FROM MACEDONIA (KASTORIA). THE GOAT OR AEGA WAS AN ANCIENT MACEDONIAN SYMBOL!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpCs6aFt0o

[E24-H08]

As you should. BTW-- your Hero is GREEK. Georgios Kastriotis was an Ethnic GREEK!

HIS GRANDFATHER WAS THE LEADER OF THE EMATHIA-KASTORIA TOWNS IN THE MACEDONIAN TERRITORY OF NORTHWEST GREECE! (KASTORIOTIS FROM KASTORIA LATER KASTRIOTIS)(+1390) HIS NAME WAS KONSTANTINOS KASTRIOTIS AND HIS SON IOANNES KASTRIOTIS, THE LEADER OF KROYA, HAD THE SERBIAN VOISHAVA AS HIS WIFE AND THEY HAD NINE CHILDREN! ONE OF THEM WAS THE PROUD GREEK GEORGIOS KASTRIOTIS HE WAS THEIR LAST CHILD (1405)

KASTRIOTIS HAD THE ANCIENT MACEDONIAN HELMET ON HIS HEAD BECAUSE HE CAME FROM MACEDONIA (KASTORIA). THE GOAT OR AEGA WAS AN ANCIENT MACEDONIAN SYMBOL!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QZpCs6aFt0o

:picard1: You need help, and I truly feel sorry for you because you live in a perverted reality full of deceit, lies and confirmation bias.

[Epirus DNA]

:picard1: You need help, and I truly feel sorry for you because you live in a perverted reality full of deceit, lies and confirmation bias.

Your "hero" has a Greek Surname, comes from a Greek Family, but you refuse to live in reality because of your perverted Enver Hoxha education. Ever since 1992, Albanians have perverted reality with their "Alternate History". You morons go so far as to think the Souliotes were a Tribe of Tosk Albanians hahahaha

[E24-H08]

Your "hero" has a Greek Surname, comes from a Greek Family, but you refuse to live in reality because of your perverted Enver Hoxha education. Ever since 1992, Albanians have perverted reality with their "Alternate History". You morons go so far as to think the Souliotes were a Tribe of Tosk Albanians hahahaha

Literally, every single sentence in your response is false. That takes quite a bit of talent, skill and delusion to do. Congratulations.

1. Kastrioti is NOT a Greek surname. The surname is derived from the Latin castrum which comes from the Proto-Indo-European *ḱes- (“to cut, cut off, separate”) (Watkins, 1969).

So NOT Greek.

2. He DID NOT come from a Greek family. His father was without a doubt Albanian. His mother's origin is disputed. Some sources claim she was a Serb, some an Albanian.

Either way, NOT Greek.

P.S. He identified as an ALBANIAN you jackass. (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Serbs-claim-that-Skanderbeg-is-100-Serbian/answer/Arlind-Istref)

3. What does Hoxha have to do with anything?

Skanderbeg became a central figure for Albanians during the Albanian National Awakening, 100 years before Hoxha came along. Now you're just pulling shit straight out of your ass.

4. Souliotes were a tribe of Tosk Albanians

Yes there were Albanian in origin, at least partly. That is undisputed.

One tradition maintains that the Souliotes were remnants of an Albanian contingent that fought at the Battle of Kosovo, while another tradition maintains that they were part of the last personal guard of Skanderbeg. Long after the Albanian migrations of the 15th century into central and southern Greece, newer waves of Albanian speaking populations such as the Souliotes migrated to Zagori in Greek Epirus, who before settling there spoke mostly Albanian. Many of them were already bilingual upon their arrival in Zagori, due to the immigration of Greeks to Souli and the Albanian-speaking population within Souli, such as the valley of Souli (Lakka-Suliots) having close contact with the Greek-speaking population of the wider area (Para-Suliots).

During the early nineteenth century exile in Corfu, the Souliote population was usually registered in official Corfiot documents as Albanesi or Suliotti, as Arvanites in onomastic catalogs for foreigners and as Alvanites (Αλβανήτες) in a divorce document by the wife of Markos Botsaris. According to Greek Corfiot historian Spyros Katsaros, he states that the Corfiot Orthodox Greek speaking population during the period of 1804–14 viewed the Souliotes as "Albanian refugees ... needing to be taught Greek". While K.D. Karamoutsos, a Corfiot historian of Souliote origin disputes this stating that the Souliotes were a mixed Graeco-Albanian population or ellinoarvanites. The Hellenic Navy Academy says that the Souliotic war banner used by Tousias Botsaris and Kitsos Tzavellas before and during the Greek War of Independence bore the inscription "descendants of Pyrrhus", the ancient Greek ruler of Epirus. Other Greek historians such as Vasso Psimouli state that the Souliotes were of Albanian origin, spoke Albanian at home but soon began to use Greek when they settled in 14th century Epirus. Kalliopi Nikolopoulou describes them as a hybrid community consisting of Greeks and Arvanites.

Other academic sources have inferred that they were Greek-speaking and of Albanian origin. Whereas some other academic sources have described the Souliotes as being "partly hellenized Albanian". Scottish historian George Finlay called them a branch of Chams, which American ethnologist Laurie Kain Hart interpreted as them having initially spoken Albanian. British academic Miranda Vickers calls them "Christian Albanians". The Canadian professor of Greek studies Andre Gerolymatos has described them as "branch of the southern Albanian Tosks" and "Christian Albanians of Suli". Classicist David Brewer has described them as a tribe of Albanian origin that like other Albanian tribes lived by plunder and extortion on their neighbours. American professor Nicholas Pappas stated that in modern times the Souliotes have been looked upon as Orthodox Christian Albanians who identified themselves with the Greeks. Arthur Foss says that the Souliotes were an Albanian tribe, that like other Albanian tribes, were great dandies.

[Epirus DNA]

Literally, every single sentence in your response is false. That takes quite a bit of talent, skill and delusion to do. Congratulations.

1. Kastrioti is NOT a Greek surname. The surname is derived from the Latin castrum which comes from the Proto-Indo-European *ḱes- (“to cut, cut off, separate”) (Watkins, 1969).

So NOT Greek.

2. He DID NOT come from a Greek family. His father was without a doubt Albanian. His mother's origin is disputed. Some sources claim she was a Serb, some an Albanian.

3. What does Hoxha have to do with anything?

Skanderbeg became a central figure for Albanians during the Albanian National Awakening, 100 years before Hoxha came along. Now you're just pulling shit straight out of your ass.

4. Souliotes were a tribe of Tosk Albanians

How many Albanians do you know that have a 4 Syllable Surname?? Zero, Ziltch, Nada!!!! HAHAHA
Kastriotis is a 4 Syllable surname. GEORGIOS KASTRIOTIS was an Ethnic Greek.

The Souliotes were NOT a tribe of Ethnic Albanians The Souliotes were an Ottoman Confederacy that grew to 12,000 people ranging 60 villages.
The following 7 Families started the Tetra-Hori. These families are NOT ethnic Albanians.

#1) The family of the Zervatis from Arta
#2) The family of the Botsaritis from Dragani, four hours from Paramithia
#3) The family of the Dractis from Martani, in the province of Lamari
#4) The family of the Buzbatis from Valachi
#5) The family of Dancliatis from Fanari
#6) The family of the Zabellatis from an unknown village
#7) The family of the Pasatis from an unknown village


Me, bathing in Albanian tears.... :bath:

[Epirus DNA]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rDxT3w8fYeE

[Epirus DNA]

Literally, every single sentence in your response is false. That takes quite a bit of talent, skill and delusion to do. Congratulations.

1. Kastrioti is NOT a Greek surname. The surname is derived from the Latin castrum which comes from the Proto-Indo-European *ḱes- (“to cut, cut off, separate”) (Watkins, 1969).

So NOT Greek.

2. He DID NOT come from a Greek family. His father was without a doubt Albanian. His mother's origin is disputed. Some sources claim she was a Serb, some an Albanian.

Either way, NOT Greek.

P.S. He identified as an ALBANIAN you jackass. (https://www.quora.com/Why-do-the-Serbs-claim-that-Skanderbeg-is-100-Serbian/answer/Arlind-Istref)

3. What does Hoxha have to do with anything?

Skanderbeg became a central figure for Albanians during the Albanian National Awakening, 100 years before Hoxha came along. Now you're just pulling shit straight out of your ass.

4. Souliotes were a tribe of Tosk Albanians

How many Albanians do you know that have a 4 Syllable Surname?? Zero, Ziltch, Nada!!!! HAHAHA
Kastriotis is a 4 Syllable surname. GEORGIOS KASTRIOTIS was an Ethnic Greek.

The Souliotes were NOT a tribe of Ethnic Albanians. :rotfl: The Souliotes were an Ottoman Confederacy that grew to 12,000 people ranging 60 villages.
The following 7 Families started the Tetra-Hori. These families are NOT ethnic Albanians.

#1) The family of the Zervatis from Arta
#2) The family of the Botsaritis from Dragani, four hours from Paramithia
#3) The family of the Dractis from Martani, in the province of Lamari
#4) The family of the Buzbatis from Valachi
#5) The family of Dancliatis from Fanari
#6) The family of the Zabellatis from an unknown village
#7) The family of the Pasatis from an unknown village


Me, bathing in Albanian tears.... :bath:

[Uski]

Fellas epirus dna is the novi pazar of the greeks in TA
To argue with him is a lost cause,he just wants to get a rise of yall.

Arvanites nowadays are greek, they identify as such, and most dont speak alot of arvanitika(witch despite greek influence is still understandable for albanians).
They fought for greece because the albanian nation (not ethnicity) hadnt been formed yet. Suliotes although originally ethnically albanian,were greek orthodox and saw themselves as greeks, this is the modern agreement.
Epirus dna, dont make this personal.

[E24-H08]

How many Albanians do you know that have a 4 Syllable Surname?? Zero, Ziltch, Nada!!!! HAHAHA
Kastriotis is a 4 Syllable surname. GEORGIOS KASTRIOTIS was an Ethnic Greek.

The Souliotes were NOT a tribe of Ethnic Albanians. :rotfl: The Souliotes were an Ottoman Confederacy that grew to 12,000 people ranging 60 villages.
The following 7 Families started the Tetra-Hori. These families are NOT ethnic Albanians.

#1) The family of the Zervatis from Arta
#2) The family of the Botsaritis from Dragani, four hours from Paramithia
#3) The family of the Dractis from Martani, in the province of Lamari
#4) The family of the Buzbatis from Valachi
#5) The family of Dancliatis from Fanari
#6) The family of the Zabellatis from an unknown village
#7) The family of the Pasatis from an unknown village


Me, bathing in Albanian tears.... :bath:

You're mentally challenged.

Some Albanian last names with 4 syllables include:

Karabeci --> Ka-ra-be-ci
Cikalleshi --> Ci-ka-lle-shi
Paqarada --> Pa-qa-ra-da
Hadergjonaj --> Ha-der-gjon-aj
Kryeziu --> Kry-e-zi-u
Arianiti --> A-ria-ni-ti
Dukagjini --> Du-ka-gji-ni
Zaharia --> Za-ha-ri-a
Zenebishi --> Ze-ne-bi-shi

Soulites were Albanians in origin (at the very least partly), that is undisputed by scholars. I know it's not very clear for you because you are mentally deficient but you have to face the facts.

[Epirus DNA]

Fellas epirus dna is the novi pazar of the greeks in TA
To argue with him is a lost cause,he just wants to get a rise of yall.

Arvanites nowadays are greek, they identify as such, and most dont speak alot of arvanitika(witch despite greek influence is still understandable for albanians).
They fought for greece because the albanian nation (not ethnicity) hadnt been formed yet. Suliotes although originally ethnically albanian,were greek orthodox and saw themselves as greeks, this is the modern agreement.
Epirus dna, dont make this personal.

The Souliotes were NOT a single Tribe. The entire group of Souliotes, which grew to 12,000 people over 60 villages, was a mixed bag. Yes, some were Ethnic Albanians, some were Slav, but the majority were Ethnic Greeks. This idea that all 12,000 Souliotes were ALL ethnically Albanian is the most ridiculous BS propaganda spewed by Albanians after their supreme leader Enver Hoxha & 1992... and it is an incorrect assertion by the French historian, François Pouqueville, as well as other contemporary European accounts that follow the Fallmerayer theory. The historian, Christoforos Perraivos, who came in personal contact with members of the Souliote community and fought with them in the Albanian Regiment, explains that the name Souli derived from the name of a Turk who was killed there-- this is first hand information from the Souliotes. If anyone cares to read the History of Souli and Parga by Christoforos Perraivos, they will learn a great deal about the truth and real facts of the Souliotes. François Pouqueville was after 1/3 of the Souliotes were killed during the Dance of Zalongo as well as their leader, head military chief, and priest Samuel who martyred himself rather than face the Turko-Albanians of Ali Pasha. Taking it one step futher, the 7 famalies that started the Tetra-Hori were GREEK. Not Albanian. This is not personal, it's fact. It is a pleasure to set the record straight on TA.

[Epirus DNA]

You're mentally challenged.

Some Albanian last names with 4 syllables include:

Karabeci --> Ka-ra-be-ci
Cikalleshi --> Ci-ka-lle-shi
Paqarada --> Pa-qa-ra-da
Hadergjonaj --> Ha-der-gjon-aj
Kryeziu --> Kry-e-zi-u
Arianiti --> A-ria-ni-ti
Dukagjini --> Du-ka-gji-ni
Zaharia --> Za-ha-ri-a
Zenebishi --> Ze-ne-bi-shi

Soulites were Albanians in origin (at the very least partly), that is undisputed by scholars. I know it's not very clear for you because you are mentally deficient but you have to face the facts.

All these multiple syllable names are not True Albanian Tribe's and they were most likely names given to them for various reasons. 90% of Albanians have two syllable names. This is just fact.

You talk about the Souliotes as "IF" they were a Tribe of people. They were not. They were an Anti-Ottoman Confederacy. Some people that became part of the Souliote Confederacy were Ethnic Albanians... but the Majority were Ethnic Greeks with Hellenic surnames. Look it up-- start listing the names of Souliotes. The 4 main villages of the Souliotes were started by Ethnic Greek Families that still to this very day Identify as GREEK. Let's start talking about your "undisputed scholars" because the two main and true sources are Lord Byron / Hobhouse pre Dance of Zalongo and Christoforos Perraivos.

[Uski]

The Souliotes were NOT a single Tribe. The entire group of Souliotes, which grew to 12,000 people over 60 villages, was a mixed bag. Yes, some were Ethnic Albanians, some were Slav, but the majority were Ethnic Greeks. This idea that all 12,000 Souliotes were ALL ethnically Albanian is the most ridiculous BS propaganda spewed by Albanians after their supreme leader Enver Hoxha & 1992... and it is an incorrect assertion by the French historian, François Pouqueville, as well as other contemporary European accounts that follow the Fallmerayer theory. The historian, Christoforos Perraivos, who came in personal contact with members of the Souliote community and fought with them in the Albanian Regiment, explains that the name Souli derived from the name of a Turk who was killed there-- this is first hand information from the Souliotes. If anyone cares to read the History of Souli and Parga by Christoforos Perraivos, they will learn a great deal about the truth and real facts of the Souliotes. François Pouqueville was after 1/3 of the Souliotes were killed during the Dance of Zalongo as well as their leader, head military chief, and priest Samuel who martyred himself rather than face the Turko-Albanians of Ali Pasha. Taking it one step futher, the 7 famalies that started the Tetra-Hori were GREEK. Not Albanian. This is not personal, it's fact. It is a pleasure to set the record straight on TA.

Show me your source about them being slavs m8. They came from southern albania and so were mostly ethnic albanian with a greek minority. If the 7 families were greek (and souli by extension), then they are only as greek as a vlach is greek. They were greek orthodox christians, they spoke greek, but they were not greeks, they were albanians who had learnt greek. If we go by your logic an ethnic greek from Thessaly(the purest greek province) is just as pure a greek as an egyptiote. Furthermore, you mean to tell me these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigrants_to_Greece) guys are greek? by your logic they should be.

you see what i mean? If anyone can become greek then the ethnicity itself is destroyed. the suliotes were greek nationals, they did speak greek (or rather learned it) alongside albanian, and they most certainly felt greek, but were not ethnic greeks,but albanians. They then were expelled to greece when they fought for them in 1821, and soon after declared themselves as greeks, and to this day are some of the most patriotic greeks. This is the modern census, i put it on the table. Think it through for a moment, dont let nationalism cloud your judgement friend, we are here to learn something

[Epirus DNA]

Show me your source about them being slavs m8. They came from southern albania and so were mostly ethnic albanian with a greek minority. If the 7 families were greek (and souli by extension), then they are only as greek as a vlach is greek. They were greek orthodox christians, they spoke greek, but they were not greeks, they were albanians who had learnt greek. If we go by your logic an ethnic greek from Thessaly(the purest greek province) is just as pure a greek as an egyptiote. Furthermore, you mean to tell me these (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/African_immigrants_to_Greece) guys are greek? by your logic they should be.

you see what i mean? If anyone can become greek then the ethnicity itself is destroyed. the suliotes were greek nationals, they did speak greek (or rather learned it) alongside albanian, and they most certainly felt greek, but were not ethnic greeks,but albanians. They then were expelled to greece when they fought for them in 1821, and soon after declared themselves as greeks, and to this day are some of the most patriotic greeks. This is the modern census, i put it on the table. Think it through for a moment, dont let nationalism cloud your judgement friend, we are here to learn something

I am from this region of Epirus-- you must try to understand that Epirus is a mountainous area that has hundreds upon hundreds of small villages scattered across gorges, valleys, and mountain sides. During the Ottoman Empire, villages near by each other on the same mountain or valley could be completely different in language and ethnicity. These villagers may have never even been in contact with each other-- or they were in contact and traded with each other. Yes, Orthodox Christianity was a unifier for these people but that does not mean they were all the same ethnicity. We still see this now in Northern Epirus / Southern Albania where villages a few kilometers away are all ethnically Greek or all ethnically Albanian. There are also villages that are mixed villages of Roma, Slav, Albanian, and Greek etc. This all stems from the Ottoman occupation.

In talking about Souli, the core of Souli consisted of four villages (Greek: Τετραχώρι), namely: Souli (also known as Kakosouli), Avariko (also known as Navariko), Kiafa and Samoniva. In time the confederation expanded and included additional seven villages (Greek: Επταχώρι). The later seven villages became the outer defensive ring in case of an attack. Both groups of villages were also collectively called Souli. Several surrounding villages, c. 50-66, which became part of the Souliote confederation were known as "Parasouli". Parasouliotes could join the Souliotes to armed operations but they had no representation in the Souliote government. In case they displayed distinction in warfare they received permission to settle in Souliote villages and enjoyed the same rights and duties as the Souliotes. At the peak of their power, in 1800, the Souliote community numbered c. 20,000 inhabitants. There is NO way all of the villages were ethnically Albanian. It's just not true. At the core, they were Hellenes-- The Souliotes had a strong local identity. Athanasios Psalidas (1767-1829), the secretary to Ali Pasha in early 19th century stated that the Souliotes were Greeks fighting the Albanians. He cites an 1821 source which distinguishes Souliotes from "Arvanites". Moreover, stated that they are part of the Cham population, the later being according to Psalidas people of either Greek or Albanian origin, while the villages of Souli were inhabited by "Greek warriors"

[Uski]

I am from this region of Epirus-- you must try to understand that Epirus is a mountainous area that has hundreds upon hundreds of small villages scattered across gorges, valleys, and mountain sides. During the Ottoman Empire, villages near by each other on the same mountain or valley could be completely different in language and ethnicity. These villagers may have never even been in contact with each other-- or they were in contact and traded with each other. Yes, Orthodox Christianity was a unifier for these people but that does not mean they were all the same ethnicity. We still see this now in Northern Epirus / Southern Albania where villages a few kilometers away are all ethnically Greek or all ethnically Albanian. There are also villages that are mixed villages of Roma, Slav, Albanian, and Greek etc. This all stems from the Ottoman occupation.

In talking about Souli, the core of Souli consisted of four villages (Greek: Τετραχώρι), namely: Souli (also known as Kakosouli), Avariko (also known as Navariko), Kiafa and Samoniva. In time the confederation expanded and included additional seven villages (Greek: Επταχώρι). The later seven villages became the outer defensive ring in case of an attack. Both groups of villages were also collectively called Souli. Several surrounding villages, c. 50-66, which became part of the Souliote confederation were known as "Parasouli". Parasouliotes could join the Souliotes to armed operations but they had no representation in the Souliote government. In case they displayed distinction in warfare they received permission to settle in Souliote villages and enjoyed the same rights and duties as the Souliotes. At the peak of their power, in 1800, the Souliote community numbered c. 20,000 inhabitants. There is NO way all of the villages were ethnically Albanian. It's just not true. At the core, they were Hellenes-- The Souliotes had a strong local identity. Athanasios Psalidas (1767-1829), the secretary to Ali Pasha in early 19th century stated that the Souliotes were Greeks fighting the Albanians. He cites an 1821 source which distinguishes Souliotes from "Arvanites". Moreover, stated that they are part of the Cham population, the later being according to Psalidas people of either Greek or Albanian origin, while the villages of Souli were inhabited by "Greek warriors"

I agree with 99% of this, just that when psalidas says "Chams", who are albanians ethnically, in what regard is his greek/albanian distinction formed? It is most likely formed on the basis of Greek orthodox and Albanian muslim, as 1. the albanian nation state wasnt formed yet, and therefore he was characterizing them based on religion, and 2. He didnt call them turks because in many ways Ali-Pasha was closer to greeks than the sultan,(he had greek ministers,envoys,and was killed not by a greek but on orders of the sultan).
In conclusion, it would make sense that in a confederation like that, greeks could have been(and most likely were) a part of. However when we talk of souli as an entity, generally westernen scholars put them as ethnic albanian(majority) warriors who fought for the country that they felt represented them at the time. That country was Greece, not because they were traitors to albania, but simply because back then, there was no albania yet. Would they have fought for albania had they stayed around another 50 years? Considering the large number of orthodox albanians from this region who fought against both greek and ottoman institutions,(papa kristo negovani for ex), i would say yes. But they had the fate of being expelled and sent to greece, where they inevitably intermingled and melted into the greek nation.


I dont think we have anything to discuss here anymore, im glad this convo didnt end on a bad note.

[Epirus DNA]

I agree with 99% of this, just that when psalidas says "Chams", who are albanians ethnically, in what regard is his greek/albanian distinction formed? It is most likely formed on the basis of Greek orthodox and Albanian muslim, as 1. the albanian nation state wasnt formed yet, and therefore he was characterizing them based on religion, and 2. He didnt call them turks because in many ways Ali-Pasha was closer to greeks than the sultan,(he had greek ministers,envoys,and was killed not by a greek but on orders of the sultan).
In conclusion, it would make sense that in a confederation like that, greeks could have been(and most likely were) a part of. However when we talk of souli as an entity, generally westernen scholars put them as ethnic albanian(majority) warriors who fought for the country that they felt represented them at the time. That country was Greece, not because they were traitors to albania, but simply because back then, there was no albania yet. Would they have fought for albania had they stayed around another 50 years? Considering the large number of orthodox albanians from this region who fought against both greek and ottoman institutions,(papa kristo negovani for ex), i would say yes. But they had the fate of being expelled and sent to greece, where they inevitably intermingled and melted into the greek nation.

I dont think we have anything to discuss here anymore, im glad this convo didnt end on a bad note.

I am happy to have real conversations regarding Epirus any time-- but I will not hesitate to strike back at ridiculousness. A few things to talk about--

#1) The English does not Translate from the Original Text in Greek by Psalides on Wikepedia correctly. When Psalidas is referign to Cham's, he is referring to Paramythia and Delvino... not Souli or the Souliotes. Psalides actually states the Souliotes were Γραικούς πολεμιστές which translates to Greek Warriors and his stating that in an ethnical sense. Here is the original Text in Greek from the book Wikipedia cites. It's a cherry picking of facts the way it is presented.

In Nikolakopoulos, Ilias, Kouloubis Theodoros A. & Thanos M. Veremis (eds). Ο Ελληνισμός της Αλβανίας [The Greeks of Albania]. University of Athens. p. 36, 47: "Οι κατοικούντες εις Παραμυθίαν και Δέλβινον λέγονται Τζαμηδες και ο τόπος Τζαμουριά», δίδασκε ο Αθανάσιος Ψαλίδας στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα και συνέχιζε: «Κατοικείται από Γραικούς και Αλβανούς· οι πρώτοι είναι περισσότεροι», ενώ διέκρινε τους δεύτερους σε Αλβανούς Χριστιανούς και Αλβανούς Μουσουλμάνους." Στην Τσαμουριά υπάγει επίσης την περιφέρεια της Πάργας, χωρίς να διευκρινίζει τον εθνοπολιτισμικό της χαρακτήρα, καθώς και τα χωριά του Σουλίου, κατοικούμενα από «Γραικούς πολεμιστές».

#2) Ali Pasha is the Third Most Unpopular Man in Modern Greek History, after Hitler and Stalin. Ali Pasha was a murderous tyrant who kidnapped men and women for his Harem and Seraglio-- Albanians consider him a Greek sympathizer but the Greeks hated him. This is why Lord Byron joined the Greeks after he spent time with Ali Pasha. Lord Byron's Don Juan is a coded message for his time with Ali Pasha.

#3) Round and Round we go-- Western Scholars do NOT place the Souliotes as Ethnic Albanians. This only became a debate after 1992 when the Hoxha era ended. People who propagate the Fallmerayer theory are the only ones who consider the Souliotes Ethnic Albanians because they believe Greeks were all Dead, Killed Off, and Re-populated by Albanians. The major issue with this is that Modern DNA testing completely disproves this narrative and the Fallmerayer theory. "The Hellenic race has died out in Europe." This bold assertion made by Fallmerayer was made in the year 1830. The eminent German scholar of the time, Zinkeisen disproved Fallmerayer's statements by means of a careful and systematic research of Byzantine historians, and thereby succeeded in exposing many errors and superficialities of Fallmerayer's writing. After Zinkeisen came scientific men like Ludwig Ross, Ernst Curtius, and Carl Mendelssohn-Bartholdi, who aided in refuting Fallmerayer's theories completely! The reiteration of Fallmerayer's error may appear superfluous, but it is NOT; for there are many people who have read Fallmerayer only and are ignorant of the fact that his statements have been refuted. The publications of Fallmerayer actually produced some good results: they caused one of the most obscure periods in the histroy of the Middle Ages to be thoroughly investigated by eminent scholars. These investigations have shown that the Greeks of today are the direct descendants of the ancient Greeks; and their war for independence from 1821 to 1828 is evidence that they are also heirs of the immortal glory which lives in the annals of history of their ancestors.

[Uski]

I am happy to have real conversations regarding Epirus any time-- but I will not hesitate to strike back at ridiculousness. A few things to talk about--

#1) The English does not Translate from the Original Text in Greek by Psalides on Wikepedia correctly. When Psalidas is referign to Cham's, he is referring to Paramythia and Delvino... not Souli or the Souliotes. Psalides actually states the Souliotes were Γραικούς πολεμιστές which translates to Greek Warriors and his stating that in an ethnical sense. Here is the original Text in Greek from the book Wikipedia cites. It's a cherry picking of facts the way it is presented.

In Nikolakopoulos, Ilias, Kouloubis Theodoros A. & Thanos M. Veremis (eds). Ο Ελληνισμός της Αλβανίας [The Greeks of Albania]. University of Athens. p. 36, 47: "Οι κατοικούντες εις Παραμυθίαν και Δέλβινον λέγονται Τζαμηδες και ο τόπος Τζαμουριά», δίδασκε ο Αθανάσιος Ψαλίδας στις αρχές του 19ου αιώνα και συνέχιζε: «Κατοικείται από Γραικούς και Αλβανούς· οι πρώτοι είναι περισσότεροι», ενώ διέκρινε τους δεύτερους σε Αλβανούς Χριστιανούς και Αλβανούς Μουσουλμάνους." Στην Τσαμουριά υπάγει επίσης την περιφέρεια της Πάργας, χωρίς να διευκρινίζει τον εθνοπολιτισμικό της χαρακτήρα, καθώς και τα χωριά του Σουλίου, κατοικούμενα από «Γραικούς πολεμιστές».

#2) Ali Pasha is the Third Most Unpopular Man in Modern Greek History, after Hitler and Stalin. Ali Pasha was a murderous tyrant who kidnapped men and women for his Harem and Seraglio-- Albanians consider him a Greek sympathizer but the Greeks hated him. This is why Lord Byron joined the Greeks after he spent time with Ali Pasha. Lord Byron's Don Juan is a coded message for his time with Ali Pasha.

#3) Round and Round we go-- Western Scholars do NOT place the Souliotes as Ethnic Albanians. This only became a debate after 1992 when the Hoxha era ended. People who propagate the Fallmerayer theory are the only ones who consider the Souliotes Ethnic Albanians because they believe Greeks were all Dead, Killed Off, and Re-populated by Albanians. The major issue with this is that Modern DNA testing completely disproves this narrative and the Fallmerayer theory. "The Hellenic race has died out in Europe." This bold assertion made by Fallmerayer was made in the year 1830. The eminent German scholar of the time, Zinkeisen disproved Fallmerayer's statements by means of a careful and systematic research of Byzantine historians, and thereby succeeded in exposing many errors and superficialities of Fallmerayer's writing. After Zinkeisen came scientific men like Ludwig Ross, Ernst Curtius, and Carl Mendelssohn-Bartholdi, who aided in refuting Fallmerayer's theories completely! The reiteration of Fallmerayer's error may appear superfluous, but it is NOT; for there are many people who have read Fallmerayer only and are ignorant of the fact that his statements have been refuted. The publications of Fallmerayer actually produced some good results: they caused one of the most obscure periods in the histroy of the Middle Ages to be thoroughly investigated by eminent scholars. These investigations have shown that the Greeks of today are the direct descendants of the ancient Greeks; and their war for independence from 1821 to 1828 is evidence that they are also heirs of the immortal glory which lives in the annals of history of their ancestors.

Well i wouldnt trust wikipedia so much. The same article on sulioutes says they spoke albanian beside greek because of their albanian origin, and considering they were surrounded by chams and labs, it would make sense that they were of similar stock, although with greek influence. Now, i never said i believe in any theory like the one youre saying, some of the people who prove of their albanian descent were ethnic greeks. In that Albanian -speaking Suliots and Hydriots, Vlach speaking Thessalians and Epirots, and Slav-speaking Macedonians had fought in insurgent Greece along with the ethnic Greeks, and no one at the time had thought any of these non-Greek speakers less Greek than the Greek-speakers for speaking little or nothing of the language. This is the reason why they are called greek warriors, they fighting for the greek cause because they had no idea of an albanian nation. Considering that a large ammount of authors call them albanian either by directly getting to know them or by learning about them, and knowing that at that time anyone who was greek orthodox was greek by implication, we can safely assume the authors who describe these greek warriors are reffering about their religion. Still my point stands they were albanian, a confederation like that could have gotten in enough greek epirots to consider themselves greek, but it never did.


Either way they "became" greek (???) later on.

[E24-H08]

All these multiple syllable names are not True Albanian Tribe's and they were most likely names given to them for various reasons. 90% of Albanians have two syllable names. This is just fact.

You talk about the Souliotes as "IF" they were a Tribe of people. They were not. They were an Anti-Ottoman Confederacy. Some people that became part of the Souliote Confederacy were Ethnic Albanians... but the Majority were Ethnic Greeks with Hellenic surnames. Look it up-- start listing the names of Souliotes. The 4 main villages of the Souliotes were started by Ethnic Greek Families that still to this very day Identify as GREEK. Let's start talking about your "undisputed scholars" because the two main and true sources are Lord Byron / Hobhouse pre Dance of Zalongo and Christoforos Perraivos.

You stated that Albanians don't have 4 syllable last names. I provided many examples. Now you're just making up excuses and claims without basis.

[Epirus DNA]

You stated that Albanians don't have 4 syllable last names. I provided many examples. Now you're just making up excuses and claims without basis.

Some Albo's have 3 Syllable names... but the majority of the true non-turkified, non-greekified, non-italinaized Albo's have 2 Syllables and their names come from their tribe. The names that have more than 2 Syllables within their own language further developed from their ethnogenesis and are not part of their linguistic origin. There was either an outside influence or an additional syllable added for differentiation or marriage between tribes.

Why am I explaining your own culture to you?

Tribal regions

Classification of the Albanian tribes by Franz Seiner, 1918.
Malësia e Madhe


The tribes of Malësia e Madhe, in the Northern Albanian Alps, include ten tribes.
These are commonly called "highlanders" (Albanian: malësorët).
Kelmendi
Gruda
Hoti (partially in Montenegro)
Kastrati
Shkreli
Triesh
Pulat

There are five tribes of the Pulat region.
Plan
Xhani
Kiri
Suma
Drishti
Dukagjin

There are six tribes of the Dukagjin region.
Shala
Shoshi
Shllaku
Mazreku
Dushmani
Toplana

Another division is that of the Dukagjin highlands, in which Shala, Shoshi, Kiri, Xhani, Plani and Toplana are included.

Gjakova highlands[edit]
There are five tribes of the Gjakova highlands (Albanian: Malësia e Gjakovës).

Nikaj (commonly grouped as Nikaj-Mërtur)
Mërturi (commonly grouped as Nikaj-Mërtur)
Krasniqja or Krasniqi
Gashi
Bytyçi
Puka

The "seven tribes of Puka" (Albanian: shtatë bajrakët e Pukës), inhabit the Puka region.
Durham said of them: "Puka group ... sometimes reckoned a large tribe of seven bairaks. Sometimes as a group of tribes".

Qerreti
Puka
Kabashi
Berisha or Berisha-Merturi
Thaçi
Mali i Zi
Mirdita
Skana
Dibrri
Fani
Kushneni
Oroshi
Spaqi
Kthella
Selita

Lezha Highland
Bulgëri
Kryezezi
Manatia
Vela

Kruja Highlands
Kurbini
Ranza
Benda
Mat region
Bushkashi
Mati

Upper Drin basin
Hasi
Luma
Lura
Arrëni
Dibra
References

[Epirus DNA]

Well i wouldnt trust wikipedia so much. The same article on sulioutes says they spoke albanian beside greek because of their albanian origin, and considering they were surrounded by chams and labs, it would make sense that they were of similar stock, although with greek influence. Now, i never said i believe in any theory like the one youre saying, some of the people who prove of their albanian descent were ethnic greeks. In that Albanian -speaking Suliots and Hydriots, Vlach speaking Thessalians and Epirots, and Slav-speaking Macedonians had fought in insurgent Greece along with the ethnic Greeks, and no one at the time had thought any of these non-Greek speakers less Greek than the Greek-speakers for speaking little or nothing of the language. This is the reason why they are called greek warriors, they fighting for the greek cause because they had no idea of an albanian nation. Considering that a large ammount of authors call them albanian either by directly getting to know them or by learning about them, and knowing that at that time anyone who was greek orthodox was greek by implication, we can safely assume the authors who describe these greek warriors are reffering about their religion. Still my point stands they were albanian, a confederation like that could have gotten in enough greek epirots to consider themselves greek, but it never did.

Either way they "became" greek (???) later on.

Your point does not stand. It's a straw-mans argument. You're putting the Albanian Ethnic spin on this entire conversation all over again. Yes, the Chams existed. Yes, Tosk Albanians moved South into Epirus during the Ottoman Occupation. This does not equate to the entire population of Epirus being Albanian or of Albanian Origin. The majority of the population of Epirus is Greek and it has always been Greek. It has been Greek since antiquity and continues to be Greek until this very day.

During the era of Ali Pasha and the Souliotes, there was most definitely a notion of an Albanian Ethnogenesis. You can't claim that people fighting for the "Greek Cause" had no idea of Albanian Tribes, Albanian Language, and the Albanian Territories.

Who are the "large amount of authors" that consider them Albanian? Let's talk about your Authors and Sources. I keep putting up real sources and you respond with the same talking points.

During the Ottoman Empire, the Lingua Franca in Epirus was basically Arvanitika. Greeks had to learn how to speak Albanian and pretended to be Albanian to survive being robbed and killed by Albanians or murdered/kidnapped by the Turks. They're countless stories in the historical records on these facts. This has nothing to do with Albanian Origin. Albanian Origin is the spin Albanians put on Wikipedia-- but on Wikipedia talk, it's being debated due to incorrect assertions made from Sources written in Greek because these people translate it incorrectly.

[Epirus DNA]

https://i.imgur.com/M6HwaIH.jpg

https://i.imgur.com/QEb58nW.jpg

[kefalonitis]

Either way they "became" greek (???) later on.

From 7th century BC until the Byzantine Civil War of 1341-47 the albanian territory was under Greek and Roman dominance,with some Bulgarian rule in the meantime too.
Obviously a part of the population there was politically alligned to Constantinople and partially hellenized(both culturaly and geneticaly).
The identity of Arvanites is certainly not a modern construct.I've mentioned this in a previous post but you ignored it.

[Epirus DNA]

From 7th century BC until the Byzantine Civil War of 1341-47 the albanian territory was under Greek and Roman dominance,with some Bulgarian rule in the meantime too.
Obviously a part of the population there was politically alligned to Constantinople and partially hellenized(both culturaly and geneticaly).
The identity of Arvanites is certainly not a modern construct.I've mentioned this in a previous post but you ignored it.

Adding to this -- the identity of Arvanites is not so clear when we are talking about the aftermath of the Greek Revolution all the way up to the present. Yes, it is clear that some Arvanites are of Albanian Origin and identify as such. On the other hand, you have Ethnic Greeks who were dubbed Arvanites and considered Albanian because they were either Bi-Lingual or are from Epirus.

[Skerdilaid]

Epirus DNA is a low IQ Grrk who claims Sulioti descent maternally. Oh the irony xD

So pointless discussing such matters with him. Just let him parade around like the moron he is, guys.

[Epirus DNA]

Epirus DNA is a low IQ Grrk who claims Sulioti descent maternally. Oh the irony xD

So pointless discussing such matters with him. Just let him parade around like the moron he is, guys.

Maternally...? :rotfl:

Nice Turbin, Turko

[Epirus DNA]

Epirus DNA is a low IQ Grrk who claims Sulioti descent maternally. Oh the irony xD

So pointless discussing such matters with him. Just let him parade around like the moron he is, guys.

My name is skrillexdaddy, the Turko-Albo with a Turbin and leader of TA Albo’s hahah just like the Albo’s... holding the cock of a Turk

[Xz2k9]

Lmao dude you're just butthurt now

[Epirus DNA]

Lmao dude you're just butthurt now

HAHA I'm the only one pumping out facts and sources on this thread. I am open to a real conversation-- not trolling. I don't hate Albanians. IRL I have a decent amount of Albanian friends. What I won't tolerate is the same old BS from the TA Albo gang spewing their Ultra-Nationalist "everyone" is an ethnic Albo non-sense. It's spewed so much on social media that people with and without an education are starting to believe the propaganda and false statements.

[Kamal900]

Well i wouldnt trust wikipedia so much. The same article on sulioutes says they spoke albanian beside greek because of their albanian origin, and considering they were surrounded by chams and labs, it would make sense that they were of similar stock, although with greek influence. Now, i never said i believe in any theory like the one youre saying, some of the people who prove of their albanian descent were ethnic greeks. In that Albanian -speaking Suliots and Hydriots, Vlach speaking Thessalians and Epirots, and Slav-speaking Macedonians had fought in insurgent Greece along with the ethnic Greeks, and no one at the time had thought any of these non-Greek speakers less Greek than the Greek-speakers for speaking little or nothing of the language. This is the reason why they are called greek warriors, they fighting for the greek cause because they had no idea of an albanian nation. Considering that a large ammount of authors call them albanian either by directly getting to know them or by learning about them, and knowing that at that time anyone who was greek orthodox was greek by implication, we can safely assume the authors who describe these greek warriors are reffering about their religion. Still my point stands they were albanian, a confederation like that could have gotten in enough greek epirots to consider themselves greek, but it never did.


Either way they "became" greek (???) later on.

They were Albanians or of Albanian origins the same way that the Maronites of Cyprus who can from modern day Levant, but at the same time, both of these peoples pretty much assimilated to the Greek ethnic identity which the reason why they did so is due to religious persecutions from their homelands they had suffered by Muslims which they found refuge in Greek lands. I myself can manage to assimilate to the Greek ethnic identity have I managed to migrate to either Cyprus or Greece and converted myself to the Greek Orthodox Christianity which most Levantine Christians belong to. What the Arvanites were in the past, it doesn't really matter considering that most if not all of them don't wish to have anything to do with Albania and her people.

[Xz2k9]

They were Albanians or of Albanian origins the same way that the Maronites of Cyprus who can from modern day Levant, but at the same time, both of these peoples pretty much assimilated to the Greek ethnic identity which the reason why they did so is due to religious persecutions from their homelands they had suffered by Muslims which they found refuge in Greek lands. I myself can manage to assimilate to the Greek ethnic identity have I managed to migrate to either Cyprus or Greece and converted myself to the Greek Orthodox Christianity which most Levantine Christians belong to. What the Arvanites were in the past, it doesn't really matter considering that most if not all of them don't wish to have anything to do with Albania and her people.

I knew an Arvanite, I had him on facebook many years ago. He was a really nice guy and Albanian patriot and we used to talk and he said he was Albanian.

[Kamal900]

I knew an Arvanite, I had him on facebook many years ago. He was a really nice guy and Albanian patriot and we used to talk and he said he was Albanian.

I was just saying in general.

[Xz2k9]

I was just saying in general.

I think a lot of it that ''they don't identify as Albanian'' is Greek propaganda ... the Arbereshe in Italy identify as Albanian despite hundreds of years under Italy and even played a role in Kosovo independence for example. Greece is notoriously known for suppressing minorities and not recognize them as such nor their language.

[Kamal900]

I think a lot of it that ''they don't identify as Albanian'' is Greek propaganda ... the Arbereshe in Italy identify as Albanian despite hundreds of years under Italy and even played a role in Kosovo independence for example. Greece is notoriously known for suppressing minorities and not recognize them as such nor their language.

If you can post some polls in regards to how the Arvanites identify themselves as then that would be great.

[Epirus DNA]

I think a lot of it that ''they don't identify as Albanian'' is Greek propaganda ... the Arbereshe in Italy identify as Albanian despite hundreds of years under Italy and even played a role in Kosovo independence for example. Greece is notoriously known for suppressing minorities and not recognize them as such nor their language.

Yes, it is a fact that groups of Arvanites are of Albanian Origin and identify as such. On the other hand, you have groups of Ethnic Greeks who were dubbed Arvanites and considered Albanian because they were either Bi-Lingual or are from Epirus.

Epirus is a mountainous area that has hundreds upon hundreds of small villages scattered across gorges, valleys, and mountain sides. During the Ottoman Empire, villages near by each other on the same mountain or valley could be completely different in language and ethnicity. These villagers may have never even been in contact with each other-- or they were in contact and traded with each other. Yes, Orthodox Christianity was a unifier for these people but that does not mean they were all the same ethnicity. We still see this now in Northern Epirus / Southern Albania where villages a few kilometers away are all ethnically Greek or all ethnically Albanian. There are also villages that are mixed villages of Roma, Slav, Albanian, and Greek etc. This all stems from the Ottoman occupation.

The Abereshe of Italy is not the same as the Arvanites of Greece.

Arvanites is used for Albanains who became Greek, Greco-Albanians mixed households, or Bi-Lingual Greeks from Epirus. It is truly a case by case, family history thing. Don't listen to these far right Albanians and their BS.

[Uski]

Your point does not stand. It's a straw-mans argument. You're putting the Albanian Ethnic spin on this entire conversation all over again. Yes, the Chams existed. Yes, Tosk Albanians moved South into Epirus during the Ottoman Occupation. This does not equate to the entire population of Epirus being Albanian or of Albanian Origin. The majority of the population of Epirus is Greek and it has always been Greek. It has been Greek since antiquity and continues to be Greek until this very day.

During the era of Ali Pasha and the Souliotes, there was most definitely a notion of an Albanian Ethnogenesis. You can't claim that people fighting for the "Greek Cause" had no idea of Albanian Tribes, Albanian Language, and the Albanian Territories.

Who are the "large amount of authors" that consider them Albanian? Let's talk about your Authors and Sources. I keep putting up real sources and you respond with the same talking points.

During the Ottoman Empire, the Lingua Franca in Epirus was basically Arvanitika. Greeks had to learn how to speak Albanian and pretended to be Albanian to survive being robbed and killed by Albanians or murdered/kidnapped by the Turks. They're countless stories in the historical records on these facts. This has nothing to do with Albanian Origin. Albanian Origin is the spin Albanians put on Wikipedia-- but on Wikipedia talk, it's being debated due to incorrect assertions made from Sources written in Greek because these people translate it incorrectly.

My point was never that all of epirus is albanian, Chameria isnt even half of epirus,you are putting words in my mouth.Cities like Ioaninna Arta Filipiada among other vlach cities like metsovo, werent albanian. However cities like parga, preveza, konitsa, filiates and souli/paramythia were. The authors that say this are in the very same wiki article about souli in the reference section.



Albanian nationalism was formed starting in 1836 with jeronim de rada, more than a decade after the souliotes fought for greece. They never considered themselves as albanian, because albanian would often equal turk/muslim. They were greek orthodox, thats the only thing that made them greek. Read the references about them in Wikipedia, the only authors that call them greek also call vlachs greek (wich is propaganda).

During the ottoman empire, albanian wasnt allowed to be taught in schools,churches operated in greek or slavic, and even Ali pasha wrote most of his messages in greek. So if anything it was the albanians who had to learn greek in order to be more succesfull in their careers. Many famous albanian authors learned in schools with all albanian speakers but with greek teachers. Greece was encouraged by priests, and even foreign envoys and investors as a lingua franca. So my point does actually stand, even though its not my point, its a scientific fact.

And could you stop blaming it on wrong translations? Greek is one of the most studied languages in the world and you have the guts to call it wrong? Your arguments dont hold up.



Whats not to understand?

[Uski]

From 7th century BC until the Byzantine Civil War of 1341-47 the albanian territory was under Greek and Roman dominance,with some Bulgarian rule in the meantime too.
Obviously a part of the population there was politically alligned to Constantinople and partially hellenized(both culturaly and geneticaly).
The identity of Arvanites is certainly not a modern construct.I've mentioned this in a previous post but you ignored it.

They became greek in that they assimilated and intermixed with greeks. They were ethnic albanians who considered themselves greek for religious reasons.
And i wasnt talking with you so how can you feel left out?

[Uski]

My name is skrillexdaddy, the Turko-Albo with a Turbin and leader of TA Albo’s hahah just like the Albo’s... holding the cock of a Turk

Drop the tough guy persona, you are greek

[Uski]

They were Albanians or of Albanian origins the same way that the Maronites of Cyprus who can from modern day Levant, but at the same time, both of these peoples pretty much assimilated to the Greek ethnic identity which the reason why they did so is due to religious persecutions from their homelands they had suffered by Muslims which they found refuge in Greek lands. I myself can manage to assimilate to the Greek ethnic identity have I managed to migrate to either Cyprus or Greece and converted myself to the Greek Orthodox Christianity which most Levantine Christians belong to. What the Arvanites were in the past, it doesn't really matter considering that most if not all of them don't wish to have anything to do with Albania and her people.

Well i agree wkth all of what youre saying, its just that epirus claims that they werent of albanian origin . I mean ffs

[Epirus DNA]

Drop the tough guy persona, you are greek

Tough Guy persona??! Albo's insult people all day and night on TA saying the most outlandish garbage and insults... then someone comes along they can't collectively bully and I'm playing the "Tough Guy" HAHAAH Whatever. Take this hypocrisy somewhere else.

[Epirus DNA]

Well i agree wkth all of what youre saying, its just that epirus claims that they werent of albanian origin . I mean ffs


What? Do I have to quote myself? It's like you don't even read what I write. I said two or three times in this thread:

Yes, it is a fact that groups of Arvanites are of Albanian Origin and identify as such. On the other hand, you have groups of Ethnic Greeks who were dubbed Arvanites and considered Albanian because they were either Bi-Lingual or are from Epirus. Arvanites is used for Albanains who became Greek, Greco-Albanians mixed households, or Bi-Lingual Greeks from Epirus. It is truly a case by case, family history thing.

[E24-H08]

Some Albo's have 3 Syllable names... but the majority of the true non-turkified, non-greekified, non-italinaized Albo's have 2 Syllables and their names come from their tribe. The names that have more than 2 Syllables within their own language further developed from their ethnogenesis and are not part of their linguistic origin. There was either an outside influence or an additional syllable added for differentiation or marriage between tribes.

Why am I explaining your own culture to you?

Tribal regions

Classification of the Albanian tribes by Franz Seiner, 1918.
Malësia e Madhe


The tribes of Malësia e Madhe, in the Northern Albanian Alps, include ten tribes.
These are commonly called "highlanders" (Albanian: malësorët).
Kelmendi
Gruda
Hoti (partially in Montenegro)
Kastrati
Shkreli
Triesh
Pulat

There are five tribes of the Pulat region.
Plan
Xhani
Kiri
Suma
Drishti
Dukagjin

There are six tribes of the Dukagjin region.
Shala
Shoshi
Shllaku
Mazreku
Dushmani
Toplana

Another division is that of the Dukagjin highlands, in which Shala, Shoshi, Kiri, Xhani, Plani and Toplana are included.

Gjakova highlands[edit]
There are five tribes of the Gjakova highlands (Albanian: Malësia e Gjakovës).

Nikaj (commonly grouped as Nikaj-Mërtur)
Mërturi (commonly grouped as Nikaj-Mërtur)
Krasniqja or Krasniqi
Gashi
Bytyçi
Puka

The "seven tribes of Puka" (Albanian: shtatë bajrakët e Pukës), inhabit the Puka region.
Durham said of them: "Puka group ... sometimes reckoned a large tribe of seven bairaks. Sometimes as a group of tribes".

Qerreti
Puka
Kabashi
Berisha or Berisha-Merturi
Thaçi
Mali i Zi
Mirdita
Skana
Dibrri
Fani
Kushneni
Oroshi
Spaqi
Kthella
Selita

Lezha Highland
Bulgëri
Kryezezi
Manatia
Vela

Kruja Highlands
Kurbini
Ranza
Benda
Mat region
Bushkashi
Mati

Upper Drin basin
Hasi
Luma
Lura
Arrëni
Dibra
References

However, there are pure Albanian 4-syllable surnames such as Kryeziu which literally means "Black Head".

[Epirus DNA]

However, there are pure Albanian 4-syllable surnames such as Kryeziu which literally means "Black Head".

Yeah-- there are some. From what is understood, the majority of Albanian names are 2 Syllables... sometimes 3 Syllables. The etymology of the 4 Syllable names is obscure and could have had outside influence. I do know that names were given because of traits, features, and other reasons... so the larger names are usually a given name rather than tribal names. Maybe, maybe not... I am not a professional linguist.

[Uski]

What? Do I have to quote myself? It's like you don't even read what I write. I said two or three times in this thread:

Yes, it is a fact that groups of Arvanites are of Albanian Origin and identify as such. On the other hand, you have groups of Ethnic Greeks who were dubbed Arvanites and considered Albanian because they were either Bi-Lingual or are from Epirus. Arvanites is used for Albanains who became Greek, Greco-Albanians mixed households, or Bi-Lingual Greeks from Epirus. It is truly a case by case, family history thing.

Ohh didnt read this sorry, but yeah it seems we agree on it all. I was thinking you said they were greeks who adopted albanian(in origin) and not real albanians

[Uski]

Tough Guy persona??! Albo's insult people all day and night on TA saying the most outlandish garbage and insults... then someone comes along they can't collectively bully and I'm playing the "Tough Guy" HAHAAH Whatever. Take this hypocrisy somewhere else.

Youve got guys like petros houhoulis who takes it out on maks and youve got novi pazar on albanians. Im not saying theyre right or wrong, or that we dont do it. Kastrioti1443 was an amazing shitposter, id say beter than novi, but not all albs are like him, or greeks or anyone and you seem to equate us all as bullies and hot heads.
You sounded albanophobic, like you dont like us, and i cant stand for thar. Dont know if that was your intention but in any case its whatever