Classify Bosnian tennis Fed Cup team [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Saruman

07-22-2011, 02:21 PM

All 4 of them. Well so much for "no Slavic looks" among S.Slavs.;)

1. Jasmina Tinjić, NE Bosnia

http://static1.dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m05/x104140053984043588_22.jpg

http://static1.dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m05/x104140053984043588_4.jpg

http://dalje.com/slike/slike_3/r1/g2007/m05/x104140053984043588_8.jpg

2. Mervana Jugić-Salkić, central Bosnia, 179 cm

http://www.24sata.info/thumbnail.php?file=news/2009/may/mervana_jugic_salkic_542957180.jpg&size=article_medium

http://tuzlalive.ba/portal/wp-content/uploads/mervana-jugic-salkic.jpg

http://sportsport.ba/slike/tenis/mervana_jugic_salkic22.jpg

http://tvsa.ba/img/news/615x340/11844.jpg

3. Jasmina Kajtazović

http://img835.imageshack.us/img835/5200/kajtazovicjasmina.jpg

http://www.sutra.ba/slike/sport/tenis/Jasmina_Kajtazovic.jpg

http://www.kajtazovic.si/media/galerija/__w/img0002.jpg

4. Ema Burgić, NE Bosnia,

http://a5.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/63064_470242226755_691096755_6710210_436520_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/35127_444967341755_691096755_6060984_7975170_n.jpg

http://a4.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc4/36128_438855011755_691096755_5906981_7046332_n.jpg

http://static.lukavac-x.ba/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/Ema-Burgic1.jpg

Hess

07-22-2011, 02:22 PM

Ive seen lots of pictures of Bosnians on this forum and I have a question- do Bosnians with Dark hair and brown eyes exist?

Saruman

07-22-2011, 02:29 PM

Ive seen lots of pictures of Bosnians on this forum and I have a question- do Bosnians with Dark hair and brown eyes exist?

Sure they do! Plenty!:D Though of my mothers side ancestors (Bosnian) basically no one had dark eyes. I find it interesting that all of these tennis players can fit in West or East-Slavic nations. Female "Slavic look" really rules the tennis these days. :D

safinator

07-22-2011, 02:31 PM

Bosnians seems the lightest Balkanoids.

Hess

07-22-2011, 02:33 PM

Sure they do! Plenty!:D Though of my mothers side ancestors (Bosnian) basically no one had dark eyes. I find it interesting that all of these tennis players can fit in West or East-Slavic nations. Female "Slavic look" really rules the tennis these days. :D

I think they would all fit well in Russia except for Jasmina, who would stick out a little bit but could still pass.

Do you think I can pass as Bosnian?

Jack B

07-22-2011, 02:33 PM

http://www.vijesti.ba/thumbnail.php?file=news/2010/september/caroline_196121353.jpg&size=article_medium

This is Caroline Wozniacki no?

safinator

07-22-2011, 02:34 PM

This is Caroline Wozniacki no?
Yes it is.

Saruman

07-22-2011, 02:35 PM

This is Caroline Wozniacki no?

Hmm I'll check, I couldn't find many images of this girl.. Yes! Someone placed her photo on an article about this Bosnian tennis player:D. So I've placed a replacement photo.:)

safinator

07-22-2011, 02:37 PM

Ema Burgic is very good looking:thumb001::thumb001:

Saruman

07-22-2011, 02:54 PM

I think they would all fit well in Russia except for Jasmina, who would stick out a little bit but could still pass.

Do you think I can pass as Bosnian?

Well, I think you'd pass best in some Croatian Dalmatian areas, and others near the coast. (because you have this Atlanto-Med and Dinarid look I saw there often), and more in area of Herzegovina than inland Bosnia. As you have some East-Baltid too you're not a common combo generally I guess.:D

Mordid

07-22-2011, 03:24 PM

Most of them could fit well in Poland except Jasmina Kajtazović look odd. :D

Duke

07-22-2011, 03:33 PM

1,2,4 Croatian

3. Serb

Saruman

07-22-2011, 03:43 PM

1,2,4 Croatian

3. Serb

By old origin? As they're all "Bosniak" (only doubt might be in no.4 but she's probably too, she's from Lukavac where they are vast majority). Nationally conscious Serbs and Croats usually/often don't play for Bosnian national teams.

Most of them could fit well in Poland except Jasmina Kajtazović look odd. :D

She's I'd say Balticised North Pontid.

Duke

07-22-2011, 03:44 PM

By old origin? As they're all "Bosniak" (only doubt might be in no.4 but she's probably too). Nationally conscious Serbs and Croats usually/often don't play for Bosnian national teams.

they are not bosniak

Saruman

07-22-2011, 03:55 PM

they are not bosniak

no.1 played for Croatia, but she switched to Bosnia (she's from Tuzla), such switching is considered you know a gesture of "loyalty to Bosniaks" to many.
no.2 is 100 % Bosniak, her first name is common among them and very uncommon among Serbs/Croats as is her last name (Salkic).
no.3 too "Jasmina" is more common among them and her last name is also typical.
no.4 might be in doubt "Ema" is common among Croats but some Bosniaks give it too, Burgić surname is common in Croats and Bosniaks. And she being from Lukavac, that place had just 3.8 % of croats in 1991 census before the war, and today I can find that out but it's probably similar on little more (as there were 21 % of Serbs there before and majority left). So playing for Bosnia she's probably "Bosnian" or "Bosniak".

Duke

07-22-2011, 04:27 PM

no.1 played for Croatia, but she switched to Bosnia (she's from Tuzla), such switching is considered you know a gesture of "loyalty to Bosniaks" to many.
no.2 is 100 % Bosniak, her first name is common among them and very uncommon among Serbs/Croats as is her last name (Salkic).
no.3 too "Jasmina" is more common among them and her last name is also typical.
no.4 might be in doubt "Ema" is common among Croats but some Bosniaks give it too, Burgić surname is common in Croats and Bosniaks. And she being from Lukavac, that place had just 3.8 % of croats in 1991 census before the war, and today I can find that out but it's probably similar on little more (as there were 21 % of Serbs there before and majority left). So playing for Bosnia she's probably "Bosnian" or "Bosniak".

I am telling you, because i know.

Guapo

07-22-2011, 04:55 PM

1,2,4 Croatian

3. Serb

Makes more Sense than "Bosnians"

GeistFaust

07-22-2011, 05:12 PM

1. Dinarid-East Alplinoid
2. Norid predominantly + Alpinoid/Cro Magnon influences
3. Pontid + Alpinoid/Cro Magnon admixture
4. She looks to be a Baltid + Pontid admixture.

Agrippa

07-22-2011, 05:13 PM

1. Eastbaltid-Norid
2. Norid with Cromagnoid/Baltoid tendencies
3. Baltid with Atlanto-Nordid
4. Norid-Nordid intermediate + Baltoid influences

GeistFaust

07-22-2011, 05:19 PM

It seems quite common to find Noricized Baltoids or Dinaricized Baltoids despite it being so far south in the Balkans.

Monolith

07-22-2011, 05:33 PM

It seems quite common to find Noricized Baltoids or Dinaricized Baltoids despite it being so far south in the Balkans.
Why is that unusual? :)

GeistFaust

07-22-2011, 05:38 PM

Mordid

07-22-2011, 05:40 PM

Why is that unusual? :)

Because he haven't been to Balkan and thought all Balkans are dark. Typical Americunt...

GeistFaust

07-22-2011, 05:44 PM

No I never thought they were dark that is not it and please refrain from using that language.

Thundermark

08-07-2011, 04:59 PM

Why I never heard of these girls? :(
Oh yes...tennis is not that popular here... :D

Guapo

08-07-2011, 05:52 PM

It might not be that unusual I just don't envision Baltoids and Norics coming this far south and especially combining and admixing with each other some of these women looked like they could have from the Baltic region.

:confused: You make it sound like Europe is some huge continent like Africa. It's a fucking small peninsula where it didn't take long for ancient folk to migrate.

Bakura

08-07-2011, 07:30 PM

Mordid

08-07-2011, 07:31 PM

Mostly baltid. Typical Bosniaks are baltids.
Baltids are typical for North Slavs, not South Slavs, although, Baltids doe exist among South Slavs.

Bakura

08-07-2011, 07:36 PM

Baltids are typical for North Slavs, not South Slavs, although, Baltids doe exist among South Slavs.

Yes, but Bosniaks are the exception. Most of them are baltid, while Serbs and Croats are usually dinarids/norids.

Mordid

08-07-2011, 07:38 PM

Yes, but Bosniaks are the exception. Most of them are baltid, while Serbs and Croats are usually dinarids/norids.

With CM influence.

Bakura

08-07-2011, 07:42 PM

With CM influence.

Common in Montenegro.

Monolith

08-07-2011, 07:44 PM

Yes, but Bosniaks are the exception. Most of them are baltid, while Serbs and Croats are usually dinarids/norids.
No way man.

Guapo

08-07-2011, 10:02 PM

Yes, but Bosniaks are the exception. Most of them are baltid, while Serbs and Croats are usually dinarids/norids.

Says a Yank :lmao:

Cymel

08-07-2011, 10:13 PM

most look slavics from central Europe, as Czech Republic or Hungary.

The Journeyman

08-08-2011, 01:27 AM

The second one has more Mediterranoid features (within the Dinaroid spectrum)

Sturmgewehr

08-08-2011, 01:38 AM

Ive seen lots of pictures of Bosnians on this forum and I have a question- do Bosnians with Dark hair and brown eyes exist?

Like 70% at least are Dark haired.

Bakura

08-08-2011, 01:39 AM

Says a Yank :lmao:

I bet you never saw Bosniak. Typical Bosniak is blond, light eyed (mostly green/gray), short, brachychephal, have a broad lips... It's all baltid features, but problem is that white nationalists don't want to admit that Bosniaks belong to the same race as a significant part of the Europeans.

Guapo

08-08-2011, 01:42 AM

I bet you never saw Bosniak. Typical Bosniak is blond, light eyed (mostly green/gray), short, brachychephal, have a broad lips... It's all baltid features, but problem is that white nationalists don't want to admit that Bosniaks belong to the same race as a significant part of the Europeans.

Fuckin 'tard, I lived in Banja Luka. You're full of shit.

Like 70% at least are Dark haired.

Now that's true.

Bakura

08-08-2011, 01:50 AM

Fuckin 'tard, I lived in Banja Luka. You're full of shit.

Now I understand, you are stupid Serbian nationalist who want to belive that Bosniaks are Turks/Arabs :rolleyes: You have nothing smart to say. :zip-lip:

Guapo

08-08-2011, 01:51 AM

Now I understand, you are stupid Serbian nationalist who want to belive that Bosniaks are Turks/Arabs :rolleyes: You have nothing smart to say. :zip-lip:

No, I'm HungARYAN ;) :lmao: Now you understand shit.

Bakura

08-08-2011, 01:55 AM

No, I'm HungARYAN ;) :lmao:

Make fun about him, but he is more inteligent than you.

Guapo

08-08-2011, 01:56 AM

Make fun about him, but he is more inteligent than you.

It's spelled "intelligent", asiatic hun dirtbag.

Bakura

08-08-2011, 02:00 AM

asiatic hun dirtbag.

What is wrong if someone is Asian?

Guapo

08-08-2011, 02:02 AM

What is wrong if someone is Asian?

You tell me, Mr. "white nationalist" :rofl:

Bakura

08-08-2011, 02:05 AM

You tell me, Mr. "white nationalist" :rofl:

Get a life ;)

Guapo

08-08-2011, 02:06 AM

AtS5rkol-4o

Bakura

08-08-2011, 03:52 AM

AtS5rkol-4o

Look, you are angry on me, just because I consider Bosniaks as European looking people. I don't know why Serbian nationalists trying fanatically to prove that Bosniaks are people of Middle Eastern origins. It's nonsense to say. They are Muslims, it's true. Conflict between Serbs and Bosniaks is religious, not racially.

Neanderthal

08-08-2011, 05:23 AM

I classify them as Bosnians.

Guapo

08-08-2011, 07:20 AM

Look, you are angry on me, just because I consider Bosniaks as European looking people. I don't know why Serbian nationalists trying fanatically to prove that Bosniaks are people of Middle Eastern origins. It's nonsense to say. They are Muslims, it's true. Conflict between Serbs and Bosniaks is religious, not racially.

No, you're a troll and not even American. I wasn't trying to prove anything, you are and I don't know why. Nobody said anything about Bosniaks being Middle Eastern. Being racially aware is so 90's anyway.

Thundermark

08-08-2011, 08:02 AM

Since I live in Bosnia, I think I can give a good answer on this issue. Bosnians with light hair and eyes are more common in the north of the country because that part was more genetically influenced from the Celtic, Germanic and Slavic tribes while the south area ( Herzegovina) is together with Dalmatia and part of Montenegro core of the "dinaric" marker and people are darker in skin tone, eyes and hair. It is also important to note that our people in diaspora can change their phenotype...I mean, big number of Bosnians who spend many years in north Europe have experienced changes in skin tone and hair color. I have a cousin in Germany who has naturally brown hair but during his life there his hair color changed and now its dirty blond. I also need to say that when looking at all south Slavic people you can find people who look Scandinavian, Polish, Russian and you can find those people who share appearance with Greeks or even Anatolian Turks. Also, some people have mongoloid tendencies and that is because numerous nomadic tribes from Euroasia - Avars, Hunns and others stayed a long time north from and in the Balkans. So, Balkans itself is one of the most genetically diverse places in Europe because we were always first in line in clashes of Asian and European empires...ok, we and all of the south Europe.

Bakura

08-09-2011, 12:13 AM

troll

I'm undead, you are gnome.

Saruman

08-24-2012, 07:18 PM

1. Eastbaltid-Norid
2. Norid with Cromagnoid/Baltoid tendencies
3. Baltid with Atlanto-Nordid
4. Norid-Nordid intermediate + Baltoid influences

Ah this thread.:) All of them have Baltoid elements, and this was the team at the time, I didn't say put this girl in the team cause she has Osteuropid influences, but this was just to put down claims that S.Slavs have little or (God forbid:D) no Slavic input. I'm not saying all have it but great many do, and as it happens you might find samples such as these where they all do. :cool:

aherne

08-25-2012, 04:48 AM

Jasmina Tinjić: Slavic + Balkan CroMagnid
Mervana Jugić-Salkić: Aryan + Dinaric mix (looks Yugoslavian)
Jasmina Kajtazović: Balkan CroMagnid (looks western)
Ema Burgić: same (looks western)

Methmatician

08-25-2012, 05:20 AM

Ive seen lots of pictures of Bosnians on this forum and I have a question- do Bosnians with Dark hair and brown eyes exist?

Yes of course. I have brown hair and eyes, and so do my parents.

dralos

08-25-2012, 09:33 AM

Yes of course. I have brown hair and eyes, and so do my parents.
you must be in bosnia like a white man in somalia:D

Methmatician

08-25-2012, 09:48 AM

you must be in bosnia like a white man in somalia:D

In some places, yes. But I think the most common hair colour in Bosnia is brown.

Saruman

08-25-2012, 09:51 AM

Ema Burgic rocks!:D

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-q3tmCbNwvTk/TrsA1G-7eFI/AAAAAAAAEhM/xOe6G1cxqjg/s1600/ema%2Bburgic.jpg

dralos

08-25-2012, 09:52 AM

In some places, yes. But I think the most common hair colour in Bosnia is brown.
really,is it bcs of the german,polish influences in some places in bosnia

Methmatician

08-25-2012, 09:55 AM

really,is it bcs of the german,polish influences in some places in bosnia

The brown hair? I don't know. I'm pretty sure the Poles and Germans have more light coloured hair than Bosnians.

dralos

08-25-2012, 09:57 AM

The brown hair? I don't know. I'm pretty sure the Poles and Germans have more light coloured hair than Bosnians.
no you silly goose,i meant the light featured,i dont know where i've seen that somewhere it was written that were alot of polish immigrants who went to bosnia during ottoman rule

Methmatician

08-25-2012, 10:07 AM

no you silly goose,i meant the light featured

Oh, ok. Well I think Vrhabosna Vanguard explained it once. He said that most of the northern European features in Bosnia came from assimilation of Northern and Central Europeans such as Hungarians, Germans, Poles and Ukrainians. And of course some Northern European features is due to our ancestors coming from North/North-Eastern Europe.

i dont know where i've seen that somewhere it was written that were alot of polish immigrants who went to bosnia during ottoman rule

I don't know about a lot, I haven't heard of any significant migration from Poland to Ottoman Empire (Bosnian part). I thought it was more the reversed; Bosnians moving to Poland during Ottoman times, I know of Bosniak soldiers who defected to Poland to join their army and then joined the Prussian 1st Hussar Regiment.

Saruman

08-25-2012, 10:11 AM

no you silly goose,i meant the light featured,i dont know where i've seen that somewhere it was written that were alot of polish immigrants who went to bosnia during ottoman rule

I think islamized Croats from Slavonia mostly moved to Bosnia after Ottomans lost those areas. So that most likely increased Slavic influences.

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 04:04 PM

I don't know about a lot, I haven't heard of any significant migration from Poland to Ottoman Empire (Bosnian part)

Not from Poland, but people who migrated to Bosnia were described as Poles living in central-north Hungary.

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 04:06 PM

I think islamized Croats from Slavonia mostly moved to Bosnia after Ottomans lost those areas. So that most likely increased Slavic influences.

Yes, those Croats out of Slavonia with Huns are responsible for population of Bosniaks in Krajina. While Tuzla was flooded with migrants from Central Europe, you can trace their ancestry because of their wacky names like Cepeš and Thotović come to my mind.

dralos

08-25-2012, 04:07 PM

Yes, those Croats out of Slavonia with Huns are responsible for population of Bosniaks in Krajina. While Tuzla was flooded with migrants from Central Europe.
so bosniaks are who?:D

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 04:15 PM

so bosniaks are who?:D

Proper or Old stock of Bosniaks today inhabit Sarajevo, Central Bosnia and Herzegovina. Everything not found in that area are people who were later assimilated.

The same way is with Croats, anyone trying to presuade me that ancestors of todays Dalmatians were among the ethnic Croats which came from Slavia should get his head examined.

Serbs got large genetic and cultural influx from Albanian tribes inhabiting Raška. While Albos got their share from Slavs and Greeks.

dralos

08-25-2012, 04:18 PM

Proper or Old stock of Bosniaks today inhabit Sarajevo, Central Bosnia and Herzegovina. Everything not found in that area are people who were later assimilated.

The same way is with Croats, anyone trying to presuade me that ancestors of todays Dalmatians were among the ethnic Croats which came from Slavia should get his head examined.

Serbs got large genetic and cultural influx from Albanian tribes inhabiting Raška. While Albos got their share from Slavs and Greeks.
i'll agree with everything except that last part dna research has shown that we dont have any slavic input especially kosovalbanians wich are the purest balkanians(i'm not trollling) and the greek is rather other way around they show abit similarity with us bcs of arvanites they absorbed

Saruman

08-25-2012, 04:28 PM

Proper or Old stock of Bosniaks today inhabit Sarajevo, Central Bosnia and Herzegovina. Everything not found in that area are people who were later assimilated.

The same way is with Croats, anyone trying to presuade me that ancestors of todays Dalmatians were among the ethnic Croats which came from Slavia should get his head examined.

Serbs got large genetic and cultural influx from Albanian tribes inhabiting Raška. While Albos got their share from Slavs and Greeks.

LMAO. Serbs in core Serbian areas where plenty of Aryans live got that and their pure Serbian culture from Shiptars? LOL Their culture has little to do with Albanians, certainly far less than MNE does.
You know there were plagues in Bosnia that killed off many people who got then replaced.

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 04:57 PM

Yes, those Croats out of Slavonia with Huns are responsible for population of Bosniaks in Krajina. While Tuzla was flooded with migrants from Central Europe, you can trace their ancestry because of their wacky names like Cepeš and Thotović come to my mind.

So you must be a Bosniak from Krajina since it can explain a lot.

Proper or Old stock of Bosniaks today inhabit Sarajevo, Central Bosnia and Herzegovina. Everything not found in that area are people who were later assimilated.

The same way is with Croats, anyone trying to presuade me that ancestors of todays Dalmatians were among the ethnic Croats which came from Slavia should get his head examined.

Bosniak mind at work. Let me figure out why do you think that.
I will try to explain this one more time and than you and the rest of south Slavic members here will stop saying the same bullshit.
Several years ago a high density of a specific subclade of haplogroup I2 was discovered on the areas of Croatia, Bosnia, Herzegovina, Serbia. It was known at the time that this haplogroup is very old and it was thought for a some time that this specific subclade is old too. Because of that we could read in newspapers, daily news on the Internet...how people on these areas did not come here during Slavic expansion but are indigeneous on the areas. And indeed for several years this was even a possibility for some researchers and during these years I2a1b ( I2a2 at the time ) was even called an Illyrian haplogroup and during these there was many threads on many forums about this. But what you and others have missed it this: it was only the last year when Nordtvedt calculated that this specific subclade is only 2500 years old and after the discovery of its maximum diversity around the areas like Ukraine and Northern Romania it was obvious that carriers of this haplogroup came on these areas during Slavic expansion because 2500 years ago and onwards it were Illyrians who were inhabiting these areas and who were pushed towards south. And right after this discovery there were in newpapers, Internet articles headlines similiar to this one: "People on the areas are not indigeneous after all". So it seems that many people which still claim the opposite obviously have not read this and are not informed about Nordtvedt's research. Based on this and because I2a1b has a moderate distribution in Croatia ( but a peak in Dalmatia and just like R1a has a moderate distribution in Croatia but peak in Slavonia ) means that all Croats are ethnic Croats and that all came during Slavic expansion and because of of high density of I2a1b in Bosnia dummy Bosniaks claim that Dalmatians, Bosniaks and Herzegovinians are natives and that ethnic Croats are only those up North.

While it may be true obviously that Croats and Bosniak share some history we are now totally different people and possibly even slightly genetically altered over the years due to neighbouring impact or possibly any other.
If you tell an average Dalmatian that he could have some relation with Bosniaks he would drown himself in the Adriatic sea.

Due to this neghbouring impact it is obvious that some Serbs and to a lesser extent Bosniaks ( and the least Croats ) share some Albanian ancestary because of elevated E haplogroup frequency.

In the same way the same can be applied to the Albanians who claim that they are the purest but it is true that the North of Albanian has quite a descent percentage of I2a1b and since this haplogroup arrived during Slavic expansion it is reasonable to say that Albanians are not pure as they claim.

So VrhBosnian, Gospodine, Sorab, Saruman, Dilberth and and others stop claiming that there was no or that there was only negligible Slavic expansion because that goes against both historical and genetical evidence.

safinator

08-25-2012, 05:05 PM

In the same way the same can be applied to the Albanians who claim that they are the purest but it is true that the North of Albanian has quite a descent percentage of I2a1b

Ok this isn't true at all and frankly i don't understand why you continue posting this after i posted you the study of Ferri at Al.2010.

Here it is again (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/03/y-chromosomes-of-albanian-populations.html)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/S6ZYexugWoI/AAAAAAAACVA/1I9HXeBDFQY/s1600/albanians.png

You can see a much Higher presence of I on Tosks that is mostly I2a1b, in Ghegs it's under 10% where I2a1b would be probably something like 5%

Saruman

08-25-2012, 05:06 PM

So VrhBosnian, Gospodine, Sorab, Saruman, Dilberth and and others stop claiming that there was no or that there was only negligible Slavic expansion because that goes against both historical and genetical evidence.

I don't claim that. I claim that there was. And evidence points there clearly.

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 05:08 PM

I don't claim that. I claim that there was.

It is than possible I misunderstood you because of all that Illyrian Nordid loco stuff

Dilberth

08-25-2012, 05:11 PM

Me too,I never claimed that.

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 05:13 PM

Gospodine i VrhBosnian su kreteni

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 05:36 PM

Ok this isn't true at all and frankly i don't understand why you continue posting this after i posted you the study of Ferri at Al.2010.

Here it is again (http://dienekes.blogspot.com/2010/03/y-chromosomes-of-albanian-populations.html)

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ish7688voT0/S6ZYexugWoI/AAAAAAAACVA/1I9HXeBDFQY/s1600/albanians.png

You can see a much Higher presence of I on Tosks that is mostly I2a1b, in Ghegs it's under 10% where I2a1b would be probably something like 5%

Than the map shown in this link is possibly not entirely correct but I think that the map is a composite of many samples ( studies ) not just one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29

But in any case it is present in Tosks and Ghegs and it indicates Slavic impact in Albanians since it came during Slavic expansion

dralos

08-25-2012, 05:38 PM

kosovalbanians dont have it atall

safinator

08-25-2012, 05:39 PM

Than the map shown in this link is possibly not entirely correct but I think that the is a composite of many samples not just one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29

But in any case it is present in Tosks and Ghegs and it indicates Slavic impact in Albanians since it came during Slavic expansion
Maps aren't reliable compared to real statistics, there was some Slavic introgression in the Albanian genepool but it was mostly on Tosks who by the way are less numerically than Ghegs. Even in other studies Kosovo Albanians and Macedonian Albanians who're mostly gheg derived are lower than 5% in the I2a1b HG.

Panopticon

08-25-2012, 05:45 PM

Than the map shown in this link is possibly not entirely correct but I think that the is a composite of many samples not just one
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Haplogroup_I2_%28Y-DNA%29

But in any case it is present in Tosks and Ghegs and it indicates Slavic impact in Albanians since it came during Slavic expansion

Maps are only meant to give an idea. It's about the big picture, not details. Kosovars only have 7.9 I, part of it which isn't I2a1b. Slavs had a larger impact on Tosks, which is why also R1a peaks among Tosks.

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 05:58 PM

i'll agree with everything except that last part dna research has shown that we dont have any slavic input especially kosovalbanians wich are the purest balkanians(i'm not trollling) and the greek is rather other way around they show abit similarity with us bcs of arvanites they absorbed

BS, no nation on Balkans were spared of Slavic migrations. Your people assimilated every single Slav which got past Ulcinj, so please let's not throw the "racial purity card" :coffee:

dralos

08-25-2012, 06:00 PM

BS, no nation on Balkans were spared of Slavic migrations. Your people assimilated every single Slav which got past Ulcinj, so please let's not throw the "racial purity card" :coffee:
oke then explain me why there is no baltid albanians or eastnordid ones and R1a is nonexcistant in kosovalbanians so is I2a2,we're mostly ev13

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:04 PM

LMAO. Serbs in core Serbian areas where plenty of Aryans live got that and their pure Serbian culture from Shiptars? LOL Their culture has little to do with Albanians, certainly far less than MNE does.

Why are you people forcing this impossible concept of racial purity? We live on fucking Balkans, not on some godforsaken isolated wasteland like Iceland or Greenland.

Explain to me how the purely Slavic Serb culture in ended up with the nearly the same clan system Albanians have been using for centuries? Or why don't Albanians accept the fact that just as much Albanian blood Serbs assimilated in Raška they themselves got from the Slavic migrants?

The sooner you people realize that there are no more "pure bloods" left in greater numbers from any nation sooner we can get to the normalization of relations.

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:06 PM

oke then explain me why there is no baltid albanians or eastnordid ones and R1a is nonexcistant in kosovalbanians so is I2a2,we're mostly ev13

Buddy I don't buy those tests. When they are conducted on nation wide levels with 100s of Ks of samples being tested I might go along, but basing your facts of purity on few dozens or even hundreds is just fucking unreal.

P.S.: And don't you be lying to your self that you lack Baltic element, I saw enough Albos in my time to see trough your forum BS.

Sorab

08-25-2012, 06:09 PM

Bacaš kosku ... Clan system is something you obviously dont understand and why it was formed in 15th century among Serbs.It was enforced system after Serbs started retreating from Kosovo ,Morava ,Vardar ,Ibar ,Lim valley into the Dinaric alps .
pročitaj
Population

According to the census of 22 April 1895, Bosnia has 1,361,868 inhabitants and Herzegovina 229,168, giving a total population of 1,591,036. The number of persons to the square mile is small (about 80), less than that in any of the other Austrian crown provinces excepting Salzburg (about 70). This average does not vary much in the six districts (five in Bosnia, one in Herzegovina). The number of persons to the square mile in these districts is as follows: Doljna Tuzla, 106; Banjaluka, 96; Bihac, 91; Serajevo, 73, Mostar (Herzegovina), 65, Travnik, 62. There are 5,388 settlements, of which only 11 have more than 5,000 inhabitants, while 4,689 contain less 500 persons. Excluding some 30,000 Albanians living in the south-east, the Jews who emigrated in earlier times from Spain, a few Osmanli Turks, the merchants, officials. and Austrian troops, the rest of the population (about 98 per cent) belong to the southern Slavonic people, the Serbs. Although one in race, the people form in religious beliefs three sharply separated divisions: the Mohammedans, about 550,000 persons (35 per cent), Greek Schismatics, about 674,000 persons (43 per cent), and Catholics, about 334,000 persons (21.3 per cent). The last mentioned are chiefly peasants. The Mohammedans form the mass of the population in the region called the Krajina in the north-west, in the district of Serajevo and in the south-eastern part of the territory; the Greek Schismatics preponderate in the district of Banjaluka. The Catholics of the Latin Rite exceed the other two denominations only in the district of Travnik and in northern Herzegovina. There are in addition 8,000 Jews and 4,000 Protestants. Divided according to occupation 85 per cent of the population are farmers or wine-cultivators (1,385,291). There are 5,833 large estates, the owners of which are chiefly Mohammedans, 88,970 cultivators of land not their own (kmeten), 88,867 free peasants who own the land they till, and 22,625 peasants who own farming-land and also cultivate the land of others. The population of the towns is small .
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

dralos

08-25-2012, 06:10 PM

Buddy I don't buy those tests. When they are conducted on nation wide levels with 100s of Ks of samples being tested I might go along, but basing your facts of purity on few dozens or even hundreds is just fucking unreal.
i agree that we absorbed thracians,dacians and some celts but slavs,i dont think so,you yugoslavs have a look wich you all share that cant be found in albania or kosova,i'm not trying to be mean or anything but i've been in whole of kosova and i super rarely see anyone who looks a tiny bit close to this look
the only resemblance we share with you is when we compare those yugoz mixed with alboz beside them none

Saruman

08-25-2012, 06:11 PM

Explain to me how the purely Slavic Serb culture in ended up with the nearly the same clan system Albanians have been using for centuries?

I am of Rascian origin, and I don't belong to any Montenegrin clans, I used to think I do but after some research and after Monte's themselves confirmed it to me, I've got little to do with their clans and their culture. Some people I know described Rascian culture (old Serbian) as "totally different" from that in Montenegro.

Or why don't Albanians accept the fact that just as much Albanian blood Serbs assimilated in Raška they themselves got from the Slavic migrants?

Rascian muslims have assimilated lot of Albanian blood yes, Serbs did not.

dralos

08-25-2012, 06:11 PM

Panopticon

08-25-2012, 06:15 PM

Vrh, it's quite reasonable that Albanians have a rather small Slavic genetic component. Albanians were for a large part of their history isolated in their mountains. Isolation usually means preservation of "purity".

That you don't buy into those genetic studies is your problem. Those studies aren't based on Internet testers. Sample sizes that do not include the whole nation are not 100% accurate, they give an indication, however. Sample sizes of some 100s are reliable though.

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:21 PM

So you must be a Bosniak from Krajina since it can explain a lot.

I have my ancestry in my profile.

...

Nordtvedt didn't prove anything, they just presented a THEORY which goes against the very basis of logic.

Anyone who knows geography of Bosnia will laugh at the concept of mass migration to it during early middle ages when there wasn't an infrastructure to support a population greater than 200-300K of natives, let alone provide host for 100s of Ks of Slavs coming from north. Gospodine and I said that the only probable explanation for Slavenization of natives was elite dominance model, where Slavs took over few key locations, managed to pacify natives and eventually force their language and parts of their customs on to the greater population (something we failed to do in Albania).

But tell me please how you explain that Croats in the North spike and are nearly homogenous R halogroup carriers while in the south they are overwhelmingly I hg carries. What did the coming Slavs in 7.th century had themselves tested at 23andme and reached an agreement that those with I halogroup will colonize the mountainous south while the R carriers will stick in the north? :rolleyes:

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:22 PM

Rascian muslims have assimilated lot of Albanian blood yes, Serbs did not.

Are you kidding me :picard1:

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:29 PM

Bacaš kosku ... Clan system is something you obviously dont understand and why it was formed in 15th century among Serbs.It was enforced system after Serbs started retreating from Kosovo ,Morava ,Vardar ,Ibar ,Lim valley into the Dinaric alps .

The clan system existed a bit more earlier than that. :rolleyes:

http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/02694a.htm

Imaš i više nego dovoljno naših izvora umjesto da se smucaš po Adventističkim stranicama :thumb001:

Sorab

08-25-2012, 06:31 PM

To je katolička enciklopedija druže .Ne budi brzoplet i upravu je Saruman
kad ti je napisao za Muslimane iz Raške oblasti .Uglavnom su se mešali sa Albanicima-muslimanima iz istočnih delova te regije .Rožaje ,Plav ,Tutin itd .
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/

Sultan Suleiman

08-25-2012, 06:34 PM

To je katolička enciklopedija druže .

Da su je bar radili naši Katolici bila bi vjerodostojnija :D

Saruman

08-25-2012, 06:35 PM

Are you kidding me :picard1:

No, I don't. If you want to search ties with Alboz search them in Kuchi tribe for ex. You want to imply that the core Serbian culture was Albanian? "Old Ras" Albanian? LOL, but I see that in some Rascian muslims, and they themselves proudly proclaim some links with Albanians (they do have them especially in some eastern parts), and they are the ones who are attempting to claim that Rascia wasn't Serbian but I don't even know what - "ancient Sandzaklian", "Ancient Bosniak". LMAO

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 06:56 PM

Buddy I don't buy those tests. When they are conducted on nation wide levels with 100s of Ks of samples being tested I might go along, but basing your facts of purity on few dozens or even hundreds is just fucking unreal.

P.S.: And don't you be lying to your self that you lack Baltic element, I saw enough Albos in my time to see trough your forum BS.

Nordtvedt didn't prove anything, they just presented a THEORY which goes against the very basis of logic.

Anyone who knows geography of Bosnia will laugh at the concept of mass migration to it during early middle ages when there wasn't an infrastructure to support a population greater than 200-300K of natives, let alone provide host for 100s of Ks of Slavs coming from north. Gospodine and I said that the only probable explanation for Slavenization of natives was elite dominance model, where Slavs took over few key locations, managed to pacify natives and eventually force their language and parts of their customs on to the greater population (something we failed to do in Albania).

Bosniaks vs science:picard1:
The only way to "prove" any history is to make a time machine. It is obvious that he just like any other researcher and historian did not prove anything, they just gave historical and genetical "evidences" which gave the most obvious picture. In any case genetical evidence is an empirical evidence and it can not be doubtful.
The evidence point that on these areas 2500 years ago were the so called Illyrians but genetical evidences also point that I2a1b is 2500 years old and maximum diversity shows that it aroused 2500 years ago in a present day southern Ukraine, northern Romania.
The only people who question Nordtvedt are Internet historians like you.

But tell me please how you explain that Croats in the North spike and are nearly homogenous R halogroup carriers while in the south they are overwhelmingly I hg carries. What did the coming Slavs in 7.th century had themselves tested at 23andme and reached an agreement that those with I halogroup will colonize the mountainous south while the R carriers will stick in the north? :rolleyes:

You are talking like I2a1b is completely absent outside of Dalmatia which is completely false and you can find moderate frequencies across entire Croatia just like you can find moderate frequecies of R1a in Dalmatia.

Sorab

08-25-2012, 07:07 PM

Solin ,besides Nordtvedt who is eminent in this field .

Insuperable

08-25-2012, 07:16 PM

Solin ,besides Nordtvedt who is eminent in this field .

I do not know but he is the best expert when it comes for dealing with haplogroup I
I read that his work, observations and conclusions were validated by several names of which I can not remember but I guess they were important names

Nordtvedt is tata mata among genetic genealogists. He is the one ( almost single handendly ) who gave the complete haplogroup I tree.
He also proposed "the most recent common ancestor calculation method"
Plus he is a very famous physicist.
( copied from Internet ) In the mid-1960s he showed through "a fiendish piece of mathematics" how lunar laser ranging could be used to test a cornerstone of general relativity known as the equivalence principle.
( where the so called Nordtvedt effect arised and people are trying to experimentally confirm it ).
But two Bosniaks know better:D