Guess Volga-Ural girls

[Ymyyakhtakh]

The girls below had included one of the languages of the Volga-Ural region as a language they speak at VKontakte, even though I'm still not 100% sure of their ethnicity.

Anyway, guess who is (based on the language they said they speak):

- Bashkir
- Chuvash
- Erzya
- Komi
- Mari
- Moksha
- Tatar
- Udmurt

There is one of each.

All of the photos are from 2012 or earlier, because I hate the Instagram era.

1:
https://i.imgur.com/R7zGOX4.jpg

2:
https://i.imgur.com/NnXY30Z.jpg

3:
https://i.imgur.com/AFRtHHO.jpg

4:
https://i.imgur.com/KIaemTi.jpg

5:
https://i.imgur.com/ElSj2vk.jpg

6:
https://i.imgur.com/kpctoCr.jpg

7:
https://i.imgur.com/nPH0bKA.jpg

8:
https://i.imgur.com/eYxSE6j.jpg

[Viridian1]

2 is Mari

[Laag]

Mari or Virjal

[Ymyyakhtakh]

2 is Mari

Wrong, less Mongoloid. So that leaves 6 other options.

In terms of Mongoloidness, I think Bashkir > Mari > Udmurt > Chuvash > Tatar > Komi > Moksha > Erzya.

https://i.imgur.com/7AucmsN.png
https://www.nature.com/articles/srep30197

However in Karin Mark's data set, a "Mongoloid index" was the highest in Chuvashes, followed by Maris, Bashkirs, Udmurts, Komi-Permyaks, Komi-Zyrians, Tatars, Moksha, and Erzya:

https://i.imgur.com/8oIGTEI.jpg
https://antropologia-fizyczna.pl/statystyki-krajow-regionow-populacji/europa/ludy-ugrofinskie-antropologia-fizyczna

[Viridian1]

Mari or Virjal

I thought you would destroy this ridle within 10 seconds :D

Let me try:

1 Moksha
2 Chuvash
3 Komi
4 Erzya
5 Bashkir
6 Tatar
7 Mari
8 Udmurt

[nittionia]

My Russian language professor was Udmurt and looks like male version of #4

[Laag]

I thought you would destroy this ridle within 10 seconds :D

Let me try:

1 Moksha
2 Chuvash
3 Komi
4 Erzya
5 Bashkir
6 Tatar
7 Mari
8 Udmurt


It's very hard. I would guess #1 is Erzya and #6 is Bashkir. Others look the same.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

I thought you would destroy this ridle within 10 seconds :D

Let me try:

1 Moksha
2 Chuvash
3 Komi
4 Erzya
5 Bashkir
6 Tatar
7 Mari
8 Udmurt

2/8 right.


It's very hard. I would guess #1 is Erzya and #6 is Bashkir. Others look the same.

Both wrong.

[Dominator]

Komi or Moksha/Erzya
Bashkir or Chuvash/Tatar
Mari
Udmurt
Mordva
Chuvash or Tatar
Mordva

[Ymyyakhtakh]

Komi or Moksha/Erzya
Bashkir or Chuvash/Tatar
Mari
Udmurt
Mordva
Chuvash or Tatar
Mordva

All wrong except the sixth one.

Since no-one else guessed, the correct answer is: 1 - Mari, 2 - Moksha, 3 - Erzya, 4 - Komi, 5 - Chuvash, 6 - Tatar, 7 - Bashkir, 8 - Udmurt.

It's difficult to get 8/8 right just by guessing, because there are a total of 8!=40320 options.

To make things more difficult, I specifically chose a Moksha who looked sub-Uralid, and I chose a Bashkir who had blue eyes and light-colored hair. Or I'm still not 100% sure about any of their ethnicity, but the user who had included the Bashkir language as a language they speak had also set their religion as Islam, her location was set to a small town in Bashkortostan, and she had posted photos in traditional clothes.

More photos of the (likely) Bashkir:

https://i.imgur.com/PuCb7nL.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/2eqmd4M.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/bCfWpyA.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/8zRMphT.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/E4YZad5.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0wazIRR.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0V1z6ib.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/82zLd5p.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/xiruvns.jpg

I think Bashkirs are one of the ethnicities along with Khanty and Mansi who can be called Uralid proper. They are the only three ethnic groups that are about half Northern European and half Mongoloid, so compared to Central Asians, it's also more common for them to have light-colored hair and eyes.

Post et al. 2019 (Y-chromosomal connection between Hungarians and geographically distant populations of the Ural Mountain region and West Siberia) (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44272-6) found that Bashkirs share N3a4-B539 with Khanty and Mansi:


Hg N3a4-B535 (Fig. 3b) is common mostly among Finnic (Finns, Karelians, Vepsas, Estonians) and Saami speaking populations in North eastern Europe (Supplementary Table S3). The highest frequency is detected in Finns (~44%) but it also reaches up to 32% in Vepsas and around 20% in Karelians, Saamis and North Russians. The latter are known to have changed their language or to be an admixed population with reported similar genetic composition to their Finnic speaking neighbors[36]. The frequency of N3a4-B535 rapidly decreases towards south to around 5% in Estonians, being almost absent in Latvians (1%) and not found among Lithuanians. Towards east its frequency is from 1–9% among Eastern European Russians and populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Komis, Mordvins and Chuvashes, but it is absent among Tatars and Bashkirs with an exception of Burzyansky District Bashkirs where the frequency is up to 5% (Supplementary Table S3).

[...]

Hg N3a4-B539 (Fig. 3c), on the other hand, is prevalent among Turkic speaking Bashkirs and also found in Tatars but is entirely missing from other populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Uralic speaking Udmurts, Maris, Komis and Mordvins, and in Northeast Europe, where instead N3a4-B535 lineages are frequent. Besides Bashkirs and Tatars in Volga-Ural region, N3a4-B539 is substantially represented in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys. Among Hungarians, however, N3a4-B539 has a subtle frequency of 1–4% (Fig. 3d), which is surprising considering their distant location from the core area of N3a4-B539. The sub-clades of N3a4-B539 (B540 and B545) (Fig. 2) have partly overlapping distribution areas with highest frequency peaks of hg N3a4-B540/L1034 (Fig. 3e) in the Ural Mountain region. B540 is more widespread and the most frequent among different sub-populations of Bashkirs in Southern Urals (up to 60%) and in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys (up to 27%). It is also present in Uralic speaking Nenets (7%) and Turkic speaking Dolgans (5%) but missing from Uralic speaking Nganasans and Selkups. Although N3a4-B540 is prevalent in Bashkirs it has a considerably lower frequency among neighbouring Tatars (3–5%).

In Triska et al. 2017 (Between Lake Baikal and the Baltic Sea: genomic history of the gateway to Europe) (https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12863-017-0578-3), both Bashkirs and Chuvashes shared more ancient IBD with Khanty than with Tatars:

https://i.imgur.com/FuMsVek.png

The same paper speculated that the ancestors of Bashkirs shifted their language during the Turkic expansion:


Tatar share moderate amount of IBD (3.55–7.35 cM per pair) with all neighbouring populations, while Bashkir share most of their ancient blocks (on average 8.62 cM per pair) with Khanty, a group of Uralic speakers from Western Siberia. We speculate that this disparity between cultural and genetic affinities of Tatar and Bashkir can be attributed to a phenomenon of cultural dominance: the population ancestral to Bashkir adopted the Turkic language during Turkic expansion from the east (language replacement event).

[Viridian1]

I am not so knowledgeable and I may sound dumb but these mongoloid features among finnougric people are because of being mixed with mongols during their invasion or this is "ancient"?

[Dominator]

This Bashkir has a rather Mari look. Mari live in Bashkortostan quite a lot.

[Laag]

The main type among Bashkirs are Turanids. Bashkirs look like Turks or Uzbeks.

http://сезоны-года.рф/sites/default/files/images/okruzhayushhij_mir/bashkirskiy_narod_2.jpg
http://www.siapress.ru/images/news/2017/06/19/2017_06_19_010839.jpg
https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-zen_doc/1389531/pub_5d24208d78125e00ae3b8e98_5d242210c0dcf200add65 821/scale_1200
https://avatars.mds.yandex.net/get-pdb/1586615/e6122e80-a11d-4c77-989e-587044c1a854/s1200?webp=false
https://i.pinimg.com/736x/a3/91/18/a391183fafb8131850252cc93cf3dd53.jpg
http://www.bashinform.ru/upload/img_res1280/e7e302944bba1446/om8mmz0dqoy_jpg_crop1481014042_ejw_1280.jpg

[Laag]

Some examples from the book "Anthropology of the Bashkirs".

https://i.imgur.com/nIMVDHQ.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/P585HFw.png
https://i.imgur.com/XsZp7G6.png
https://i.imgur.com/Vj57129.png

[Turul Karom]

All wrong except the sixth one.

Since no-one else guessed, the correct answer is: 1 - Mari, 2 - Moksha, 3 - Erzya, 4 - Komi, 5 - Chuvash, 6 - Tatar, 7 - Bashkir, 8 - Udmurt.

It's difficult to get 8/8 right just by guessing, because there are a total of 8!=40320 options.

To make things more difficult, I specifically chose a Moksha who looked sub-Uralid, and I chose a Bashkir who had blue eyes and light-colored hair. Or I'm still not 100% sure about any of their ethnicity, but the user who had included the Bashkir language as a language they speak had also set their religion as Islam, her location was set to a small town in Bashkortostan, and she had posted photos in traditional clothes.

More photos of the (likely) Bashkir:

https://i.imgur.com/PuCb7nL.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/2eqmd4M.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/bCfWpyA.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/8zRMphT.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/E4YZad5.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0wazIRR.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0V1z6ib.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/82zLd5p.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/xiruvns.jpg

I think Bashkirs are one of the ethnicities along with Khanty and Mansi who can be called Uralid proper. They are the only three ethnic groups that are about half Northern European and half Mongoloid, so compared to Central Asians, it's also more common for them to have light-colored hair and eyes.

Post et al. 2019 (Y-chromosomal connection between Hungarians and geographically distant populations of the Ural Mountain region and West Siberia) (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44272-6) found that Bashkirs share N3a4-B539 with Khanty and Mansi:


Hg N3a4-B535 (Fig. 3b) is common mostly among Finnic (Finns, Karelians, Vepsas, Estonians) and Saami speaking populations in North eastern Europe (Supplementary Table S3). The highest frequency is detected in Finns (~44%) but it also reaches up to 32% in Vepsas and around 20% in Karelians, Saamis and North Russians. The latter are known to have changed their language or to be an admixed population with reported similar genetic composition to their Finnic speaking neighbors[36]. The frequency of N3a4-B535 rapidly decreases towards south to around 5% in Estonians, being almost absent in Latvians (1%) and not found among Lithuanians. Towards east its frequency is from 1–9% among Eastern European Russians and populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Komis, Mordvins and Chuvashes, but it is absent among Tatars and Bashkirs with an exception of Burzyansky District Bashkirs where the frequency is up to 5% (Supplementary Table S3).

[...]

Hg N3a4-B539 (Fig. 3c), on the other hand, is prevalent among Turkic speaking Bashkirs and also found in Tatars but is entirely missing from other populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Uralic speaking Udmurts, Maris, Komis and Mordvins, and in Northeast Europe, where instead N3a4-B535 lineages are frequent. Besides Bashkirs and Tatars in Volga-Ural region, N3a4-B539 is substantially represented in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys. Among Hungarians, however, N3a4-B539 has a subtle frequency of 1–4% (Fig. 3d), which is surprising considering their distant location from the core area of N3a4-B539. The sub-clades of N3a4-B539 (B540 and B545) (Fig. 2) have partly overlapping distribution areas with highest frequency peaks of hg N3a4-B540/L1034 (Fig. 3e) in the Ural Mountain region. B540 is more widespread and the most frequent among different sub-populations of Bashkirs in Southern Urals (up to 60%) and in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys (up to 27%). It is also present in Uralic speaking Nenets (7%) and Turkic speaking Dolgans (5%) but missing from Uralic speaking Nganasans and Selkups. Although N3a4-B540 is prevalent in Bashkirs it has a considerably lower frequency among neighbouring Tatars (3–5%).

In Triska et al. 2017 (Between Lake Baikal and the Baltic Sea: genomic history of the gateway to Europe) (https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12863-017-0578-3), both Bashkirs and Chuvashes shared more ancient IBD with Khanty than with Tatars:

https://i.imgur.com/FuMsVek.png

The same paper speculated that the ancestors of Bashkirs shifted their language during the Turkic expansion:


Tatar share moderate amount of IBD (3.55–7.35 cM per pair) with all neighbouring populations, while Bashkir share most of their ancient blocks (on average 8.62 cM per pair) with Khanty, a group of Uralic speakers from Western Siberia. We speculate that this disparity between cultural and genetic affinities of Tatar and Bashkir can be attributed to a phenomenon of cultural dominance: the population ancestral to Bashkir adopted the Turkic language during Turkic expansion from the east (language replacement event).

What on earth is the point of this study that only looks into haplogroup N? As if haplogroup N was the only original Hungarians? How ridiculous, that they spend all this effort and citations to only look at a single Y-DNA when that wasn't even the DNA of the Árpád dynasty (R1a Z93)! Let me guess, they were not really Hungarians either? The study even has the guts to say that the admixture overall places Hungarians of the time closer to Bashkirs, but then goes on and on to puzzle about the relative absence of N from the modern Hungarian gene pool.

I read the whole thing twice and am both baffled and impressed with such a narrow-focus extrapolated onto the entire Hungarian population.

[Ymyyakhtakh]

I am not so knowledgeable and I may sound dumb but these mongoloid features among finnougric people are because of being mixed with mongols during their invasion or this is "ancient"?

If I had to guess, I would say that Pre-Proto-Uralic or Proto-Uralic spread to the Volga-Ural region from Altai or Xinjiang because of the Seima-Turbino (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seima-Turbino_phenomenon) phenomenon circa 2000 BC. So that Uralics are descended from East Asians who brought the Bronze Age to the Northeast European forest zone. One of the proposed PU homelands is in the Kama region which is rich in copper deposits.

Here's what "kooky Carlos" (as Polako called him) wrote (https://indo-european.info/indo-europeans/viii_15_eastern_european_forest_zone-.htm):


The Netted Ware or Textile Ware culture (Figure 76) appeared ca. 1900 BC in the Upper Volga–Oka region, derived from Fatyanovo–Balanovo settlers that inhabited previous Volosovo area and interacted with the Seima–Turbino network. It spread ca. 1900–1800 BC to the north into inner Finland, at the same time as the Pozdnyakovo branch of early Srubna exerted its influence on it.
Netted Ware expanded into regions previously occupied by cultures producing asbestos- and organic-tempered wares, reaching the Narva River on the eastern border of Estonia to the west, the Oulu River to the north, and Karelia but did not settle in the coastal zones (Figure 77). The early period of Netted Ware in Finland and Karelia is represented by the Sarsa–Tomitsa ceramics, starting ca. 1700 BC, with a later subgroup of Kalmistonmáki ceramics (Parpola 2018).

It is not clear yet what the relationships between this immigrant tradition and the local populations of inner Finland were, but it is evident that changes took place in all fields of life: settlements, material culture, means of subsistence, and thus Weltanschauung. This does not imply a synchronous or abrupt change, or a complete population turnover, because traditional forms of subsistence held their ground alongside slash–and–burn agriculture for centuries and even millennia (Nordqvist 2018).

To the east of the textile ceramics area, in the Mid–Volga region, Abashevo settlers fought for the possession of the area between the mouths of the Kama and Vyatka, rich in copper deposits. The Chirkovo culture (ca. 1800–700 BC) formed eventually by the fusion of Abashevo and Balanovo elites over previous Volosovo territory, with Balanovo remains found well into the second half of the 2nd millennium BC. In its early phase, it included the Seima site—one of the type sites for the Seima–Turbino phenomenon, with evidence of materials from as far away as the Krotovo culture—and participated in the Seima–Turbino network, from the forest-steppe of the middle Irtysh to the Baraba steppe on the upper Ob (Parpola 2018).

The Kazan culture (ca. 1900–800 BC) developed in the Vetluga–Volga–Vyatka interfluve based on Balanovo settlers over previous Garino–Bor territory, from which it retained local traditions. Bronzes of the first phase are of the Seima–Turbino type, and it eventually comprised the Kama and Belaya basins, as well as areas of the Middle Volga almost up to Samara to the south, interacting with early Srubna. Its final Maklasheevka phase (ca. 1000–800 BC) immediately preceded its replacement by the Ananyino culture (Parpola 2018).

Yunusbayev et al. 2015 (The Genetic Legacy of the Expansion of Turkic-Speaking Nomads across Eurasia) (https://journals.plos.org/plosgenetics/article?id=10.1371/journal.pgen.1005068) found that Tatars and Bashkirs had a fairly late East Eurasian admixture date, which coincided with the Mongol expansion. Chuvashes had an earlier East Eurasian admixture date, which was around the time when Volga Bulgaria was established.


For example, the present-day Tatars, Bashkirs, Kazakhs, Uzbeks, and Kyrgyz span from the Volga basin to the Tien-Shan Mountains in Central Asia, yet (Fig 5) showed evidence of recent admixture ranging from the 13th to the 14th centuries. These peoples speak Turkic languages of the Kipchak-Karluk branch and their admixture ages postdate the presumed migrations of the ancestral Kipchak Turks from the Irtysh and Ob regions in the 11th century [37].

[...]

Chuvashes, the only extant Oghur speakers showed an older admixture date (9th century) than their Kipchak-speaking neighbors in the Volga region. According to historical sources, when the Onogur-Bolgar Empire (northern Black Sea steppes) fell apart in the 7th century, some of its remnants migrated northward along the right bank of the Volga river and established what later came to be known as Volga Bolgars, of which the first written knowledge appears in Muslim sources only around the end of the 9th century [40]. Thus, the admixture signal for Chuvashes is close to the supposed arrival time of Oghur speakers in the Volga region.


This Bashkir has a rather Mari look. Mari live in Bashkortostan quite a lot.

Yeah but her hometown at VKontakte was set to a small town in the southern tip of Bashkortostan. Maris mostly live in the north:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7b/Mari_in_Bashkortostan_%28census_2002%29.svg/497px-Mari_in_Bashkortostan_%28census_2002%29.svg.png


The main type among Bashkirs are Turanids. Bashkirs look like Turks or Uzbeks.

I think Bashkirs are still special, because they have so much Northern European admixture:

https://i.imgur.com/RxciL6G.png

However the people in the photos below maybe look more Turanid than Uralid. Many of the men even have fairly strong growth of the beard compared to Ob-Ugrics.

https://i.ibb.co/B2Kvvtk/photos-of-bashkirs-from-kunstkamera.jpg

[Turul Karom]

All wrong except the sixth one.

Since no-one else guessed, the correct answer is: 1 - Mari, 2 - Moksha, 3 - Erzya, 4 - Komi, 5 - Chuvash, 6 - Tatar, 7 - Bashkir, 8 - Udmurt.

It's difficult to get 8/8 right just by guessing, because there are a total of 8!=40320 options.

To make things more difficult, I specifically chose a Moksha who looked sub-Uralid, and I chose a Bashkir who had blue eyes and light-colored hair. Or I'm still not 100% sure about any of their ethnicity, but the user who had included the Bashkir language as a language they speak had also set their religion as Islam, her location was set to a small town in Bashkortostan, and she had posted photos in traditional clothes.

More photos of the (likely) Bashkir:

https://i.imgur.com/PuCb7nL.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/2eqmd4M.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/bCfWpyA.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/8zRMphT.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/E4YZad5.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0wazIRR.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/0V1z6ib.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/82zLd5p.jpghttps://i.imgur.com/xiruvns.jpg

I think Bashkirs are one of the ethnicities along with Khanty and Mansi who can be called Uralid proper. They are the only three ethnic groups that are about half Northern European and half Mongoloid, so compared to Central Asians, it's also more common for them to have light-colored hair and eyes.

Post et al. 2019 (Y-chromosomal connection between Hungarians and geographically distant populations of the Ural Mountain region and West Siberia) (https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-019-44272-6) found that Bashkirs share N3a4-B539 with Khanty and Mansi:


Hg N3a4-B535 (Fig. 3b) is common mostly among Finnic (Finns, Karelians, Vepsas, Estonians) and Saami speaking populations in North eastern Europe (Supplementary Table S3). The highest frequency is detected in Finns (~44%) but it also reaches up to 32% in Vepsas and around 20% in Karelians, Saamis and North Russians. The latter are known to have changed their language or to be an admixed population with reported similar genetic composition to their Finnic speaking neighbors[36]. The frequency of N3a4-B535 rapidly decreases towards south to around 5% in Estonians, being almost absent in Latvians (1%) and not found among Lithuanians. Towards east its frequency is from 1–9% among Eastern European Russians and populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Komis, Mordvins and Chuvashes, but it is absent among Tatars and Bashkirs with an exception of Burzyansky District Bashkirs where the frequency is up to 5% (Supplementary Table S3).

[...]

Hg N3a4-B539 (Fig. 3c), on the other hand, is prevalent among Turkic speaking Bashkirs and also found in Tatars but is entirely missing from other populations of the Volga-Ural region such as Uralic speaking Udmurts, Maris, Komis and Mordvins, and in Northeast Europe, where instead N3a4-B535 lineages are frequent. Besides Bashkirs and Tatars in Volga-Ural region, N3a4-B539 is substantially represented in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys. Among Hungarians, however, N3a4-B539 has a subtle frequency of 1–4% (Fig. 3d), which is surprising considering their distant location from the core area of N3a4-B539. The sub-clades of N3a4-B539 (B540 and B545) (Fig. 2) have partly overlapping distribution areas with highest frequency peaks of hg N3a4-B540/L1034 (Fig. 3e) in the Ural Mountain region. B540 is more widespread and the most frequent among different sub-populations of Bashkirs in Southern Urals (up to 60%) and in West Siberia among Ugric speaking Mansis and Khantys (up to 27%). It is also present in Uralic speaking Nenets (7%) and Turkic speaking Dolgans (5%) but missing from Uralic speaking Nganasans and Selkups. Although N3a4-B540 is prevalent in Bashkirs it has a considerably lower frequency among neighbouring Tatars (3–5%).

In Triska et al. 2017 (Between Lake Baikal and the Baltic Sea: genomic history of the gateway to Europe) (https://bmcgenet.biomedcentral.com/articles/10.1186/s12863-017-0578-3), both Bashkirs and Chuvashes shared more ancient IBD with Khanty than with Tatars:

https://i.imgur.com/FuMsVek.png

The same paper speculated that the ancestors of Bashkirs shifted their language during the Turkic expansion:


Tatar share moderate amount of IBD (3.55–7.35 cM per pair) with all neighbouring populations, while Bashkir share most of their ancient blocks (on average 8.62 cM per pair) with Khanty, a group of Uralic speakers from Western Siberia. We speculate that this disparity between cultural and genetic affinities of Tatar and Bashkir can be attributed to a phenomenon of cultural dominance: the population ancestral to Bashkir adopted the Turkic language during Turkic expansion from the east (language replacement event).

What on earth is the point of this study that only looks into haplogroup N? As if haplogroup N was the only original Hungarians? How ridiculous, that they spend all this effort and citations to only look at a single Y-DNA when that wasn't even the DNA of the Árpád dynasty (R1a Z93)! Let me guess, they were not really Hungarians either? The study even has the guts to say that the admixture overall places Hungarians of the time closer to Bashkirs, but then goes on and on to puzzle about the relative absence of N from the modern Hungarian gene pool.

I read the whole thing twice and am both baffled and impressed with such a narrow-focus extrapolated onto the entire Hungarian population.

[Laag]

This Bashkir has a rather Mari look. Mari live in Bashkortostan quite a lot.

Russian anthropologist Akimova found among the Bashkirs four types: Suburalic type, South Siberian type(so-called Turanid), Light Europoid type and Pontic type.
Suburalic and Light Europoid type were found in North-West Bashkiria.
Some Tatar users here
http://slavanthro.mybb3.ru/viewtopic.php?t=11554&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=0
and here
http://slavanthro.mybb3.ru/viewtopic.php?t=4074
claimed that there are no ethnic Bashkirs in those areas but only Tatars, Mari and others.
It's like some Turks post European looking Circassian and Bosniaks and claim that they are Turks.

[Sche]

I am not so knowledgeable and I may sound dumb but these mongoloid features among finnougric people are because of being mixed with mongols during their invasion or this is "ancient"?
it is more ancient than the Mongols

[MustafaTekin]

Number 1 is pretty.

[Viridian1]

So what is the proper order?