Where do ancient populations show up on this chart?

[TheOldNorth]

92218
I’ve seen this chart a lot, and I’ve seen that the Gauls seem to be almost like uber-Gaels genetically, so if any of you have knowledge of where for example, Romans, and Illyrians or Dacians and Scythians would be, that would be helpful, also apparently I plot very French of this graph, which could make sense in the sense that the quarter jewish dragged me down and to the right of British populations
92219

[Leto]

Try this PCA
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303248-k36-schematic-map-(-quot-PCA-quot-)
You'd need to post your K36 values.

[TheOldNorth]

Try this PCA
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303248-k36-schematic-map-(-quot-PCA-quot-)
You'd need to post your K36 values.

Hold up I think I do have my K 13 admixtures
North Atlantic: 44.4
Baltic: 28.7
West med: 13.71
East med: 4.78
Red Sea: 0?
South Asian: 1.16

[JamesBond007]

92218
I’ve seen this chart a lot, and I’ve seen that the Gauls seem to be almost like uber-Gaels genetically, so if any of you have knowledge of where for example, Romans, and Illyrians or Dacians and Scythians would be, that would be helpful, also apparently I plot very French of this graph, which could make sense in the sense that the quarter jewish dragged me down and to the right of British populations
92219

How accurate do you think this chart is for modern populations ? It has me between SouthEast and Danish. However, k36 mapping places me more with the Dutch and English. The k36 schematic PCA has me not too far from SouthEast English but closer to the ancient Germanic Longobard tribes.

[JamesBond007]

Hold up I think I do have my K 13 admixtures
North Atlantic: 44.4
Baltic: 28.7
West med: 13.71
East med: 4.78
Red Sea: 0?
South Asian: 1.16

He said k36 not k13.

[vbnetkhio]

92218
I’ve seen this chart a lot, and I’ve seen that the Gauls seem to be almost like uber-Gaels genetically, so if any of you have knowledge of where for example, Romans, and Illyrians or Dacians and Scythians would be, that would be helpful, also apparently I plot very French of this graph, which could make sense in the sense that the quarter jewish dragged me down and to the right of British populations
92219

there is a non-Greek sample from a Greek colony in Spain, it might be Celt, it plots near Scottish or Irish

https://www.eupedia.com/forum/threads/38841-I8215-and-I8206-ancient-Greek-and-ancient-Gaul-from-Empuries-colony?p=580744&viewfull=1#post580744

there are also the Lech valley samples, they plot like modern French

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?303248-k36-schematic-map-(-quot-PCA-quot-)/page12


Dacians and Illyrians -NW Italy, Spain-Catalonia

Romans - like Italians, and like Greek islanders, which is around Ashkenazi on this plot

Scythians - all over the place, but the more pure ones between Moldova and Tatars i believe

[J. Ketch]

92218
I’ve seen this chart a lot, and I’ve seen that the Gauls seem to be almost like uber-Gaels genetically, so if any of you have knowledge of where for example, Romans, and Illyrians or Dacians and Scythians would be, that would be helpful, also apparently I plot very French of this graph, which could make sense in the sense that the quarter jewish dragged me down and to the right of British populations
92219
There is no proof that one Empuries sample is even a Gaul, let alone a typical one. Hold off on your pronouncement that Gauls were 'uber-Gael' because it's very unlikely all things considered.

[SharpFork]

Hold off on your pronouncement that Gauls were 'uber-Gael' because it's very unlikely all things considered.
On what grounds do you say this?

[TheOldNorth]

He said k36 not k13.

well yes but earlier on another thread he asked for k13

[TheOldNorth]

There is no proof that one Empuries sample is even a Gaul, let alone a typical one. Hold off on your pronouncement that Gauls were 'uber-Gael' because it's very unlikely all things considered.

well I think the western gauls, at least armorican ones were likely very north-sea/atlantic, but the eastern ones might have been more like central europeans of the modern day

[J. Ketch]

On what grounds do you say this?
There is nothing to suggest the genetic landscape of France has altered significantly since the Iron Age. The samples from Bronze Age Southern Germany show a population similar to modern French, and they were probably proto-Celts. Of course some Gauls were British/Irish like, just like some modern French from the same regions are.

https://i.imgur.com/m8BQbSv.png

The genetic borders of France
https://i.imgur.com/SU87ZYX.png

Moreover the British Isles received an influx of Farmer admixture after the Bronze Age that was presumably brought by Gauls and proto-Gallic Celts.

[SharpFork]

There is nothing to suggest the genetic landscape of France has altered significantly since the Iron Age. The samples from Bronze Age Southern Germany show a population similar to modern French, and they were probably proto-Celts. Of course some Gauls were British/Irish like, just like some modern French from the same regions are.

https://i.imgur.com/m8BQbSv.png

The genetic borders of France
https://i.imgur.com/SU87ZYX.png

Moreover the British Isles received an influx of Farmer admixture after the Bronze Age that was presumably brought by Gauls and proto-Gallic Celts.
Ah I think I misunderstood you, one thing though what was the ENF admixture of Gauls compared to "pre-Celtic" Britons? I don't think there was such a big difference.

[J. Ketch]

Ah I think I misunderstood you, one thing though what was the ENF admixture of Gauls compared to "pre-Celtic" Britons? I don't think there was such a big difference.
There are no certified Gaulish samples so one can't say for sure, but these averages may give an idea.
https://i.postimg.cc/3x2m6hbN/Opera-Snapshot-2019-11-03-064359-vahaduo-github-io.png

[SharpFork]

There are no certified Gaulish samples so one can't say for sure, but these averages may give an idea.

The French Bellbeaker seems to have quite less ENF, is it because they were unmixed newcomers or because some other groups took over their areas?

Also the Empuries example here is the mixed Greek one I imagine.

[J. Ketch]

The French Bellbeaker seems to have quite less ENF, is it because they were unmixed newcomers or because some other groups took over their areas?

Also the Empuries example here is the mixed Greek one I imagine.
It maybe that they hadn't yet mixed much with the natives, but pre-Celtic Northern Gaul was probably similar to pre-Celtic Britain and populated by the same Northern BB stock; Bretons today are an example of that, they cluster with British and Irish rather than Northern French (although some of that of course has to do with post-Roman British migrants)

The Empuries1 is Celtiberian.

The important thing is that modern British and Irish populations are somewhat intermediary of Bronze Age British/Irish and Bronze Age/Beaker/Iron Age Continentals.

[SharpFork]

It maybe that they hadn't yet mixed much with the natives, but pre-Celtic Northern Gaul was probably similar to pre-Celtic Britain and populated by the same Northern BB stock; Bretons today are an example of that, they cluster with British and Irish rather than Northern French (although some of that of course has to do with post-Roman British migrants)

The Empuries1 is Celtiberian.

The important thing is that modern British and Irish populations are somewhat intermediary of Bronze Age British/Irish and Bronze Age/Beaker/Iron Age Continentals.
So you think the Celtic expansion increased the ENF admixture in Northern Gaul and the British isles? Intriguing theory but I really wonder how true it is, I always hear that there doesn't seem to have been much genetic influence from the Hallstatt culture region during the period it was around, was it earlier?

[J. Ketch]

So you think the Celtic expansion increased the ENF admixture in Northern Gaul and the British isles? Intriguing theory but I really wonder how true it is, I always hear that there doesn't seem to have been much genetic influence from the Hallstatt culture region during the period it was around, was it earlier?
Well, can you think of a better reason why Ireland and Scotland may have added ~4-6% ENF admixture since the Mid Bronze Age? The genetic influence wouldn't have to come directly via the Hallstatt region, it would come via Northern Gaul.