Chechen and Ingush

[curoi]

I thought it would be interesting:D

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_1a0ed7c0.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3fb1657c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_34cba27c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_75050371.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8575dd79.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58953213.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_0dc9bf41.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8daf5e89.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg

[Mordid]

Where they get their light features from ?

[d3cimat3d]

More photos - bottom of 1st and 2nd page:

http://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?t=27896&highlight=chechens+blond


Where they get their light features from ?

Kurgan culture.

[Bard]

They look like a merging of nordic and arabic, it's pretty weird.

[curoi]

They look like a merging of nordic and arabic, it's pretty weird.
:D
here`s our classification !
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northcaucasian_race

[Sikeliot]

They look like a merging of nordic and arabic, it's pretty weird.

Or Russian and Armenian.

[curoi]

Central cluster
Caucasian Avars, Balkars, Bats people, Ossetians, Ingush people, Karachays, Chechen people
High growth (> 170 cm)
Hair coarse, straight, dark brown (often light-reddish-brown and light brown)
Eyes brown and green, are found as blue (unlike other groups)
Face is broad (14,6-14,8 cm) is low. Angular facial features. Cheeks broad, but subtle. The forehead is low.
Brachycephalic (cranial index - 84-85)
http://cs705.vkontakte.ru/u6904245/107031073/x_f88df565.jpg
Southern Cluster
Svans, Khevsurian (ethnic group), Pshavi (ethnic group), southern Ossetians, Rachins
average growth
Hair coarse, straight, dark brown (often light-reddish-brown and light brown)
Eyes brown and green (unlike other groups)
Face is broad (14,6-14,8 cm) is low. Angular facial features. Cheeks broad, but subtle. The forehead is low.
Brachycephalic (cranial index - 84-85)
http://cs705.vkontakte.ru/u6904245/107031073/x_2111b1c1.jpg
Dagestan cluster
Lezgins, Dargin people, Lak people
average growth
Hair coarse, straight, dark and light
Characteristic as dark eyes and bright
Mesocephalic (cranial index - 78-79), less brachycephalic (cranial index - 84-85)
http://cs9444.vkontakte.ru/u40486675/106605954/x_795f7ae0.jpg

[Pallantides]

three of them could pass as Scandinavians
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg(right one)
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg(left one)

[safinator]

three of them could pass as Scandinavians
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg(right one)
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg(left one)
Given their geographic position, this doesn't surprise me.

[Sikeliot]

They don't look Scandinavian so much, but rather Ukrainian or Romanian.

[Pallantides]

They don't look Scandinavian so much, but rather Ukrainian or Romanian.

Only three of them could pass as Scandinavian.

[Husaria]

They look like a merging of nordic and arabic, it's pretty weird.

We can say the same thing about Italians. But, More of just Arabic without the Nordic.

[Husaria]

The mass majority look like Corded Nordic / Armenoid hybrids
Some of them even look like Keltic Nordics.

Some of these pictures I would think they were Amish.

[Dario Argento]

One in the back looks a bit like Gamera:

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3fb1657c.jpg

[Odoacer]

We can say the same thing about Italians. But, More of just Arabic without the Nordic.

Simply not true. Italians aren't "Nordic," but they aren't Arabid either. They are predominantly Mediterranid, with significant Dinarid & Alpinid influence.

[Husaria]

Simply not true. Italians aren't "Nordic," but they aren't Arabid either. They are predominantly Mediterranid, with significant Dinarid & Alpinid influence.

Italians are mostly Alpine & Gracile Med in the South
with more Dinaric & Alpine to the North

I know.
But, I don't think an Italian has a right to call other people "Arabs"

[Equilibrium]

The wavy long hairs combined with the long beards gives them almost a lion-esque appearance. ;)

[curoi]

The wavy long hairs combined with the long beards gives them almost a lion-esque appearance. ;)

especially this guy right :D
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg

[Husaria]

especially this guy right :D
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg

I think he looks Finno Ugric.
Maybe Finland.
But, he also looks like a light Udmurt or Komi (Alot of Reddish hair & Similar facial features in Udmurts & Komis)

My dad thinks he looks Scottish. I can see that too. Some Scots do look similar to that too.

[Equilibrium]

especially this guy right :D
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg

Yes, he has quite the lion´s mane.:cool:

[Don]

If this posts of ENEMIES TO EUROPE in ALL SENSES... named freedoom fighters... if this is allowed in this forum, I'm off.

I wont stand this.

[curoi]

I`m gonna change topic to just "Chechen and Ingush"

[Bard]

Italians are mostly Alpine & Gracile Med in the South
with more Dinaric & Alpine to the North

I know.
But, I don't think an Italian has a right to call other people "Arabs"

Oh please, don't be such a butthurt.

[Dario Argento]

three of them could pass as Scandinavians
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg(right one)
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg(left one)

I think second one here can pass too. (Although I think it's the same dude in your last picture, they kinda look alike.)

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg

On a side note, I find interesting how they spot long bears with no mustache.

[Sturmgewehr]

Many of them can pass as Balkan people any day

[Mordid]

Many of them can pass as Balkan people any day

Now you say it.... They kind of look like Albanian to me..

[Arbonit]

If this posts of ENEMIES TO EUROPE in ALL SENSES... named freedoom fighters... if this is allowed in this forum, I'm off.

I wont stand this.
Why they are enemies to Europe? what exactly they did to you and Europe

[Austrvegr]

Chechens and Ingushes are Middle Easterners by genes, race and culture. A few light-featured individuals can be cherry-picked in any Middle Eastern population.

[Sturmgewehr]

Now you say it.... They kind of look like Albanian to me..

yes since Albania is in the Balkans.

Many of them even look Slavic as well, when I say Slavic I mean Eastern European.

[curoi]

I think second one here can pass too. (Although I think it's the same dude in your last picture, they kinda look alike.)

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg

On a side note, I find interesting how they spot long bears with no mustache.


The Prophet Muhammad viewed growing a beard as sunnah. Trimming the mustaches is one of the fitra.[35][36][37][38][39][40][41] There are those who view it as a sunnah and they may argue that it has an equivalent status to the nine other acts of fitrah, of the saḥīḥ aḥādīth about the ten acts of fitrah, but this argument is considered weak by many at best.
In the Islamic tradition, God commanded Abraham to keep his beard, shorten his moustache, clip his nails, shave the hair around his genitals, and pluck his armpit hair

the truth is in the Ingushian culture young man with a beard is a sign of disrespect, I wanted to grow but I was not allowed:D

[curoi]

Chechens and Ingushes are Middle Easterners by genes, race and culture. A few light-featured individuals can be cherry-picked in any Middle Eastern population.

OOO)) look who came :D

OK, Kirghiz ,Punjabi hase more R1a than many slav`s population.
This means that the Slavs Central Asians?

Even in Dagestan J1* is a different from the rest of the world (semitec or south eouropian) scientist A.Klesov said that dagestani J1* lives in the east part of the north caucasus min 10.000 years ,it`s isolated J1.

I`m saying we`r not europian or asian or Middle Eastern..
due to the fact that we were isolated, we were able to preserve our unique culture.

[Max]

It doesn't surprise me that some of them have light features.Russians/Terek Cossacks comprised almost 1/3 of the population in that region. Many Chechen men were killed in rebellions and purges it was common for Russian soldiers to take Chechen wifes. Rape/pillaging was also probably rampant. There are also still a good amount of ethnic Russians living there so this isn't anything shocking. I've seen blue eyed and Slavic Tatars,Uzbeks,Georgians,etc and most(not all) of them were either heavily mixed with or were born from ethnic Russian families.

[curoi]

It doesn't surprise me that some of them have light features.Russians/Terek Cossacks comprised almost 1/3 of the population in that region. Many Chechen men were killed in rebellions and purges it was common for Russian soldiers to take Chechen wifes. Rape/pillaging was also probably rampant. There are also still a good amount of ethnic Russians living there so this isn't anything shocking. I've seen blue eyed and Slavic Tatars,Uzbeks,Georgians,etc and most(not all) of them were either heavily mixed with or were born from ethnic Russian families.

well....dna-test showed that chechen and ingush has j2a4b like 79% ...and it`s a russian stydies.
I actualy know some russian clans in chechen population
it`s easy to distinguished Russian r1a and Vainakhian j2a4b* ;)

[curoi]

Why they are enemies to Europe? what exactly they did to you and Europe

all we want is freedom
to communicate in our native language
we want that Russian troops left the Caucasus

[Arbonit]

all we want is freedom
to communicate in our native language
we want that Russian troops left the Caucasus
I know that my friend i know, and i support freedom of Chechnya and Ingushetia

[Humanophage]

I`m saying we`r not europian or asian or Middle Eastern..
due to the fact that we were isolated, we were able to preserve our unique culture.
Native Caucasians do turn out rather closer to Iranians and Turks, though less so to Middle Easterners proper, in admixture analysis: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

They are certainly a lot more unrelated to Europeans than to Middle Easterners. Let me illustrate the point:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Humanophage/Mideast.jpg

[Terek]

haha :D )))))) Not this topic again))))

To say it again:
Vainakhi can be dark and they can be light. Most women have dark hair, but light hair in anyone can be common. Eyes are brown or green or sometimes even blue. Most Vainakhi have distinct facial features and nose that are like mine. Skin color is light to medium-tan but NEVER black.

Chechens and Ingush are the lightest people of the Caucasus, much more so than Armenians or Azeris.

[curoi]

Native Caucasians do turn out rather closer to Iranians and Turks, though less so to Middle Easterners proper, in admixture analysis: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

They are certainly a lot more unrelated to Europeans than to Middle Easterners. Let me illustrate the point:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Humanophage/Mideast.jpg

my friend ), great job!)
but, in your work there`s only Adyghian population are north-caucasian) :(
in the north-caucasus there are more than 50 ethnic groups

[Husaria]

Native Caucasians do turn out rather closer to Iranians and Turks, though less so to Middle Easterners proper, in admixture analysis: https://spreadsheets.google.com/spreadsheet/ccc?key=0ArAJcY18g2GadDUyeEtjNnBmY09EbnowN3M3UWRyN nc&hl=en_US&authkey=COCa89AJ#gid=0

They are certainly a lot more unrelated to Europeans than to Middle Easterners. Let me illustrate the point:
http://i51.photobucket.com/albums/f389/Humanophage/Mideast.jpg

I personally think that list is not very good.

I mean it says Cambodians are 3.1 percent East European. LOL

WTF? about Cambodians is Eastern Europe?

I mean yeah maybe Western China or Mongolians are a little Eastern European.
But, China is only 0.8 Eastern European. I think that is possible.

But, Cambodia? WTF?

[Óttar]

The wavy long hairs combined with the long beards gives them almost a lion-esque appearance. ;)
It reminds me a bit of the Sikhs. They never cut their hair or their beard and all men have the last name Singh which comes from Sanskrit. Sinh "Lion."

[d3cimat3d]

Chechens and Ingushes are Middle Easterners by genes, race and culture.

Not exactly.


We analyzed 40 SNP and 19 STR Y-chromosomal markers in a large sample of 1,525 indigenous individuals from 14 populations in the Caucasus and 254additional individuals representing potential source populations. We also employed a lexicostatistical approach to reconstruct the history of the languages of the North Caucasian family spoken by the Caucasus populations. We found a different major haplogroup to be prevalent in each of four sets of populations that occupy distinct geographic regions and belong to different linguistic branches. The haplogroup frequencies correlated with geography and, even more strongly, with language. Within haplogroups, a number of haplotype clusters were shown to be specific to individual populations and languages. The data suggested a direct origin of Caucasus male lineages from the Near East, followed by high levels of isolation, differentiation and genetic drift in situ. Comparison of genetic and linguistic reconstructions covering the last few millennia showed striking correspondences between the topology and dates of the respective gene and language trees, and with documented historical events. Overall, in the Caucasus region, unmatched levels of gene-language co-evolution occurred within geographically isolated populations, probably due to its mountainous terrain.

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/05/13/molbev.msr126.short?rss=1


It doesn't surprise me that some of them have light features.Russians/Terek Cossacks comprised almost 1/3 of the population in that region. Many Chechen men were killed in rebellions and purges it was common for Russian soldiers to take Chechen wifes. Rape/pillaging was also probably rampant.

No way. Chechens have red hair at much higher rates than Russians. Maybe it's convenient to give credit to Russians for the blond Chechens, but definitely not for the red-heads.:coffee:



There are also still a good amount of ethnic Russians living there so this isn't anything shocking. I've seen blue eyed and Slavic Tatars,Uzbeks,Georgians,etc and most(not all) of them were either heavily mixed with or were born from ethnic Russian families.

For your theory to be correct, Chechens would have to have high frequencies of paternal haplogroup R1a, and they don't.

http://i55.tinypic.com/214oak4.png

[Austrvegr]

OOO)) look who came :D

OK, Kirghiz ,Punjabi hase more R1a than many slav`s population.
This means that the Slavs Central Asians?

Even in Dagestan J1* is a different from the rest of the world (semitec or south eouropian) scientist A.Klesov said that dagestani J1* lives in the east part of the north caucasus min 10.000 years ,it`s isolated J1.

I`m saying we`r not europian or asian or Middle Eastern..
due to the fact that we were isolated, we were able to preserve our unique culture.

Slavs do not cluster with Kirghizes or Punjubis on autosomal gene plots and do not look like them. Chechens and Ingushes do cluster with other Middle Easterners and look like them.

[Austrvegr]

haha :D )))))) Not this topic again))))

To say it again:
Vainakhi can be dark and they can be light. Most women have dark hair, but light hair in anyone can be common. Eyes are brown or green or sometimes even blue. Most Vainakhi have distinct facial features and nose that are like mine. Skin color is light to medium-tan but NEVER black.

Chechens and Ingush are the lightest people of the Caucasus, much more so than Armenians or Azeris.

No, the lightest people in the Caucasus are Adyghes/Circassians in the North-West Caucasus who have European genetic admixture.

[Austrvegr]

http://s015.radikal.ru/i330/1107/00/525e2af9e5e1.jpg

[Austrvegr]

Why they are enemies to Europe? what exactly they did to you and Europe

The explosion in Hotel Jørgensen was a minor explosion inside of the discount hostel of the same name in central Copenhagen, Denmark. The explosion happened at 1:23 pm on September 10th, 2010. No fatalities were recorded.[3] The only injured person was the one-legged Chechnyan-Belgian[1] bomber Lors Doukaiev, who was caught in a nearby park, Ørstedsparken, following the explosion, but only identified several days later.[4]

Considering that the bomber bought a bus ticket to Belgium with departure from Denmark on September 10th[5], and he was seen at a post office buying a small box used for mailing CDs, as well as a roll of tape[5], it is believed that it was not meant to be a suicide attack against the hostel, but rather an accident while making a letter bomb, which happened as a consequence of Doukaiev's use of a highly volatile explosive substance. TATP, which was the chemical used, is notorious for it's volatility.

Lors Doukaiev was also seen in a video game shop, buying a game whose case he could have intended to use as a container for the bomb[6].

The Danish police revealed a hypothesis regarding the purpose of the bomb. According to the police hypothesis, Lors Doukaiev constructed a letter bomb, which was meant to explode upon opening, using TATP as an explosive and filling the container with small metal projectiles. The bomb would have the same effect as a fragmentation grenade[6]. It is speculated, that Jyllands-Posten in Århus would have been the target of said letter bomb[6].

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lors_Doukaiev

http://vgnt.se/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Lors-Dukajev.jpg

[Lithium]

Some of them look very European. They seem to be a very interesting mix.

[Terek]

No, the lightest people in the Caucasus are Adyghes/Circassians in the North-West Caucasus who have European genetic admixture.

I am from the Caucasus. I can tell you it is more common to see a Vainakh with light hair and eyes than Adyghe.

[Austrvegr]

Chechen "refugees" terrorize an asylum in Norway

Both residents at the center at Nordbybråten in Våler and employees working there have been frightened by the group of around a dozen Chechen refugees, reports local newspaper Moss Avis. The Chechens allegedly are demanding that everyone must pray to Allah, that no one can wear shorts and that they must be allowed to be the first to take their meals.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1123070.ece



11 Chechens arrested in police raids
30 August 2006

BRUSSELS — Eleven Chechens were arrested over a violent nightclub raid earlier this month as police staged a large-scale operation on Monday night in the coastal resort of Oostende.

Police had earlier arrested 16 Chechens on the night of the raid and robbery at the nightclub Carré Beach 10 days ago.

But police officers raided 12 premises on Monday night and arrested a further 11 suspects.

Federal and local police officers were involved in the operation, news agency Belga reported on Tuesday.

But members of the special intervention squad were also deployed because some of the suspects had a violent criminal past.

Brugge Court was to decide later on Wednesday whether the 11 suspects should be remanded in custody.

Six people were injured during the raid at the Oostende nightclub.

About 30 suspects had stormed into the nightclub armed with metal poles and baseball bats.

Lawyers representing the Chechens have said a fight between a Chechen and a Moroccan security officer sparked the violent raid.

http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/11-chechens-arrested-in-police-raids-32679.html

[Max]

Not exactly.


No way. Chechens have red hair at much higher rates than Russians. Maybe it's convenient to give credit to Russians for the blond Chechens, but definitely not for the red-heads.:coffee:



For your theory to be correct, Chechens would have to have high frequencies of paternal haplogroup R1a, and they don't.


Well of course Chechens don't have high frequencies of R1a and most of them don't have light features either. Caucasians are between Middle easterners and South Slavs. It's no coincidence that you see lighter types the further North you go into the Caucus.

[Austrvegr]

Not exactly.
http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/05/13/molbev.msr126.short?rss=1

Yes, Caucasians are an isolated group of Middle Easterners.


No way. Chechens have red hair at much higher rates than Russians.

That is a false claim.

[curoi]

Chechen "refugees" terrorize an asylum in Norway

Both residents at the center at Nordbybråten in Våler and employees working there have been frightened by the group of around a dozen Chechen refugees, reports local newspaper Moss Avis. The Chechens allegedly are demanding that everyone must pray to Allah, that no one can wear shorts and that they must be allowed to be the first to take their meals.

http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article1123070.ece



11 Chechens arrested in police raids
30 August 2006

BRUSSELS — Eleven Chechens were arrested over a violent nightclub raid earlier this month as police staged a large-scale operation on Monday night in the coastal resort of Oostende.

Police had earlier arrested 16 Chechens on the night of the raid and robbery at the nightclub Carré Beach 10 days ago.

But police officers raided 12 premises on Monday night and arrested a further 11 suspects.

Federal and local police officers were involved in the operation, news agency Belga reported on Tuesday.

But members of the special intervention squad were also deployed because some of the suspects had a violent criminal past.

Brugge Court was to decide later on Wednesday whether the 11 suspects should be remanded in custody.

Six people were injured during the raid at the Oostende nightclub.

About 30 suspects had stormed into the nightclub armed with metal poles and baseball bats.

Lawyers representing the Chechens have said a fight between a Chechen and a Moroccan security officer sparked the violent raid.

http://www.expatica.com/be/news/local_news/11-chechens-arrested-in-police-raids-32679.html


Austrvegr can you save your link`s to your friend`s in Russia? I also can send you some link`s about russian`s terrorising Europe:D

[Austrvegr]

Austrvegr can save your link`s to your friend`s in Russia? I also can send you some link`s about russian`s terrorising Europe:D

You are a Middle Eastern Muslim and have nothing to do on a European board in the first place.

[curoi]

You are a Middle Eastern Muslim and have nothing to do on a European board in the first place.

I'm not saying that people from the Caucasus are Europeans :D

Now go and drink some vodka, a true European!:thumb001:

[Humanophage]

I personally think that list is not very good.

I mean it says Cambodians are 3.1 percent East European. LOL

WTF? about Cambodians is Eastern Europe?
It simply means they share an admixture labelled East European, and it is minor. It properly reflects historical Indian (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381059) migrations (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022058) to Cambodia. They have a much larger (10%) South Asian influence that came along with it.


my friend ), great job!)
but, in your work there`s only Adyghian population are north-caucasian)
in the north-caucasus there are more than 50 ethnic groups
Well, as you can see, Adyghe aren't that different genetically from Lezgins and Georgians, all are quite typical to the region (unlike, for instance, Siddis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi) among Indians proper).


Even in Dagestan J1* is a different from the rest of the world (semitec or south eouropian) scientist A.Klesov said that dagestani J1* lives in the east part of the north caucasus min 10.000 years ,it`s isolated J1.
It should be noted that J2, not J1 is predominant among most native Caucasians.

[Max]

I'm not saying that people from the Caucasus are Europeans :D


Then why are you posting about them on a European preservation forum? I don't understand this... What kind of reaction are you expecting?

[curoi]

It simply means they share an admixture labelled East European, and it is minor. It properly reflects historical Indian (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/17381059) migrations (http://www.plosone.org/article/info%3Adoi%2F10.1371%2Fjournal.pone.0022058) to Cambodia. They have a much larger (10%) South Asian influence that came along with it.


Well, as you can see, Adyghe aren't that different genetically from Lezgins and Georgians, all are quite typical to the region (unlike, for instance, Siddis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Siddi) among Indians proper).


It should be noted that J2, not J1 is predominant among native Caucasians (59% Chechens, 33% Avars, 32% Ingushes, 32% Georgians) It is primarily 'West Asian', not 'Middle Eastern' in the strict sense (Turks 21%, Iranians 22%, Tajiks 20%, though it is also present among Albanians, Greeks and South Italians). J1 is significant, but less so.

wait,wait ....32% Ingushes what ,J1* ? it`s incorrect work of I.Nasidze
there`s a work of Kutuev,Balanovsky about Caucasus

[Humanophage]

32% Ingushes J2 is, indeed, Nasidze. Chechens 59% J2 is Balanovsky 2011. Avars 33% J2 is Marchiani 2008.

[curoi]

Then why are you posting about them on a European preservation forum? I don't understand this... What kind of reaction are you expecting?

you know, the bad reaction I get only from the great "Russian-Aryan" Nation.


The Caucasus or Caucas is a geopolitical region at the border of Europe and Asia. It is home to the Caucasus Mountains, including Europe's highest mountain
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caucasus

[curoi]

32% Ingushes J2. It's Derenko 2006.

there`s new work of Kutuev and Balanovsky

[Austrvegr]

He is not middle eastern , and btw you are slavic subhuman.

He is Middle Eastern like all natives of the Caucasus, that is a fact of science. And I do not care about what an Albanian thinks of me.

[curoi]

He is Middle Eastern like all natives of the Caucasus, that is a fact of science. And I do not care about what an Albanian thinks of me.

ok, i am))) you got me
now ,save your enthusiasm for the russian forum, true aryan

[Humanophage]

there`s new work of Kutuev and Balanovsky
Please check out the fixed post, my table got bugged.

According to the new research by Balanovsky, 59% Chechens have J2 (and 22% J1).

[curoi]

Please check out the fixed post, my table got bugged.

According to the new research by Balanovsky, 59% Chechens have J2 (and 22% J1).

Yes that true, and those j1* there most found in akkin population but I`m Ingush we have j2a4b* like 79%

[Hess]

Truth be told, I don't care how Kavkaz people look. I don't care if their eyes are green or if their hair is redder than Ronald McDonald's. I hate them because of their violent, backwards, anti- European atitude and not because of their color of the hair or eyes.

[curoi]

Truth be told, I don't care how Kavkaz people look. I don't care if their eyes are green or if their hair is redder than Ronald McDonald's. I hate them because of their violent, backwards, anti- European atitude and not because of their color of the hair or eyes.

we`r only violent to the peopole who`s violant to us. We`r not anti- European ,and you know that)
Russian`s are surprised when they kill us ,then we respond to them.
russian`s want evrybody to be russian they don`t wanna 156 ethnic group

[Adrian]

curoi, don't pay attention to germs.
Chechens are fightin for freedom not for religion and thay deserve to be free, like all other peoples.

[Austrvegr]

we`r only violent to the peopole who`s violant to us. We`r not anti- European ,and you know that)
Russian`s are surprised when they kill us ,then we respond to them.
russian`s want evrybody to be russian they don`t wanna 156 ethnic group

Caucasians rob, rape and kill anywhere they get to in Europe, not just in Russia.

[Austrvegr]

curoi, don't pay attention to germs.
Chechens are fightin for freedom not for religion and thay deserve to be free, like all other peoples.

Right, the Chechen who was going to blow up the Danish newspaper because of the muhammad the pig cartoon was fighting for mudslimes' freedom to kill anyone who do not bow to their shit religion.

[Adrian]

Do you consider your selves Europian Austrvegr?

[Arbonit]

Right, the Chechen who was going to blow up the Danish newspaper because of the muhammad the pig cartoon was fighting for mudslimes' freedom to kill anyone who do not bow to their shit religion.You like to make propaganda really you do , why just dont show that you government support fully islamization of Chechnya because this is interes of Moskva, why you just dont talk for earlier wars when all freeom fighters were secular.

[Mordid]

Do you consider your selves Europian Austrvegr?

You fink you are superior to us Slavs ? OM....:D

[curoi]

Caucasians rob, rape and kill anywhere they get to in Europe, not just in Russia.

russian`s are much better in that area than chechen`s , ask budanov:D

[curoi]

You fink you are superior to us Slavs ? OM....:D

Of course he does not think so.
do not provoke a conflict, we didn`t started it

[Transhumanist]

http://mbe.oxfordjournals.org/content/early/2011/05/13/molbev.msr126.short?rss=1

One of the finer papers to come out in a long while. Though, there is one error (at least according to the current consensus), from my understanding, the authors will likely address before publication.

And, a bit from the conclusion:

We conclude that the Caucasus gene pool originated from a subset of the Near Eastern pool due to an Upper Paleolithic (or Neolithic) migration, followed by significant genetic drift, probably due to isolation in the extremely mountainous landscape. This process would result in the loss of some haplogroups and the increased frequency of others. The Caucasus meta-population underwent a series of population (and language) splits. Each population (linguistic group) ended up with one major haplogroup from the original Caucasus genetic package, while other haplogroups became rare or absent in it. The small isolated population of the Kubachi, in which haplogroup J1*-M267(xP58) became virtually fixed (99%, Table 2), exemplifies the influence of genetic drift there. During population differentiation, haplotype clusters within haplogroups emerged and expanded, often becoming population specific. The older clusters became characteristic of groups of populations. Many younger clusters were specific to individual populations (typically speaking different languages).

I prepared the attachment, a PC scatter diagram based on the Balanovsky Y-DNA frequencies for all Caucasian populations, Armenians (FTDNA), and Assyrians (FTDNA, 23andMe, and SMGF), last week, for my friend, the Armenian DNA Project admin, Peter Hrechdakian (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WKoERvvVfHo). I had been meaning to prepare the plot, since I found a few cases of J1* w/ DYS438=11 in Balanovsky's paper, but only got around to it recently. The DYS438=11 value in J1* men is exceedingly infrequently observed in J1* men w/DYS388=13 (http://www.familytreedna.com/public/J1_asterisk_Y-DNA/default.aspx?section=yresults). I have marked the DYS438=11 populations on the plot. The central location of the Armenians and Assyrians on the PCA plot, relative to the Caucasian populations, might lend support to the conclusions in Balanovsky et al.

[gandalf]

I thought it would be interesting:D

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_1a0ed7c0.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3fb1657c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_34cba27c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_75050371.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8575dd79.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58953213.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_0dc9bf41.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8daf5e89.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg

I have a few remarks for those photos :

1 ) Of course those guys could pass for Europeans ,
even for scandinavian , but those are selected to show nordic feature amongst Chechen population .
We could do the same with choosing carefully people from Italy , Greece ,etc .

2 ) Those guys can look European , but infortunatly they are Muslim ,
and you can find easily on the net a video of a band of Chechen
who treat Russian prisonners this way :
the prisonners are lied , face on the ground ,
hands tied in the back ,
they grab the hairs with a hand and with the other hand they
cut the troat of the alive prisonner , like they do to the sheeps
in Hallal butchery way , in the name of Allah .

Everybody should watch this video ,
witch is the most terrible thing I ever watched ,
but it is necessary to know how can some humans can treat others !

By the way those Chechen , on the video who did those insanities ,
I can't call them human , they are not even animals because animal
are incapable of evil , they are NOTHING ,
and the good news is that special Russian Forces got them ,
I wish they rot somewhere .

Chechen , Alnanian ; not European , they are muslims .

[curoi]

I have a few remarks for those photos :

1 ) Of course those guys could pass for Europeans ,
even for scandinavian , but those are selected to show nordic feature amongst Chechen population .
We could do the same with coosing carefully people from Italy , Greece ,etc .

2 ) Those guys can look European , but infortunatly they are Muslim ,
and you can find easily on the net a video of a band of Chechen
who treat Russian prisonners this way :
the prisonners are lied , face on the ground ,
hands tied in the back ,
they grab the hairs with a hand and with the other hand they
cut the troat of the alive prisonner , like they do to the sheeps
in Hallal butchery way , in the name of Allah .

Everybody should watch this video ,
witch is the most terrible thing I ever watched ,
but it is necessary to know how can some humans can treat others !

By the way those Chechen , on the video who did those insanity ,
I can't call them human , they are not even animals because animal
are incapable of evil , they are NOTHING ,
and the good news is that special Russian Forces got them ,
I wish they rot somewhere .

Chechen , Alnanian ; not European , they are muslims .

Again
we`r NOT Europian`s we`r Caucasian`s.
we don`t wanna pass for no one.

[gandalf]

Did you watch this video Curoi ?

What do you think about it ?

I know war crimes are chared in all populations ,
but this is so different .

Nobody in Europe could do this insanity .

[curoi]

Did you watch this video Curoi ?

What do you think about it ?

I know war crimes are chared in all populations ,
but this is so different .

Nobody in Europe could do this insanity .

you know russian`s whiped out half of my relative`s , so please don`t tell me that you saw somewhere ,something.

if I showed you thing`s that russian`s did in the Caucasus, you woud cry)
I can see how these falsifications are on average people ,but anyway it`s all russian propaganda.
right now we just try to survive from our fundamentalist and russian barbarians.

[Transhumanist]

Yes, Caucasians are an isolated group of Middle Easterners.
That is a false claim.

They are not Middle Easterners. At least not genetically. It is apparent their Y-DNA lines entered the Caucasus (presuming origins external), when the Near East was a much different place. They barely have any of the "Southwest Asian" component. And, as Dienekes has demonstrated, the "Southwest Asian" component quite clearly correlates with Semitic languages and Arabian influence when it exceeds a certain quantity.

Another scatter plot based on y-DNA frequencies I prepared for a few populations, including a number of Christian ME populations from Haber et al. The Caucasians were not included, but knowing their major haplogroups (J1*, J2a*, J2a4b*, etc.), their placement would likely be consistent with geography. Which is to say, outside the grey (Middle East, Semitic-speaking) region.

[d3cimat3d]

Yes, Caucasians are an isolated group of Middle Easterners.

One way or another, we are all isolated Middle-Easterners, including you.



That is a false claim.

I met hundreds of Russians in my life and only one had red hair. North Caucasians and Udmurts have the highest occurrences of red hair in Eastern Europe, deal with it.

[Sikeliot]

And, as Dienekes has demonstrated, the "Southwest Asian" component quite clearly correlates with Semitic languages and Arabian influence when it exceeds a certain quantity.


what quantity? And does any group exceed this quantity but not speak a Semitic language (Armenians, perhaps)?

[Mordid]

One way or another, we are all isolated Middle-Easterners, including you.



I met hundreds of Russians in my life and only one had red hair. North Caucasians and Udmurts have the highest occurrences of red hair in Eastern Europe, deal with it.

But Russians have higher percent of light eyes and light hair (blonde) more than North Caucasians and Udmurts ?

[d3cimat3d]

But Russians have higher percent of light eyes and light hair (blonde) more than North Caucasians and Udmurts ?

Only blonde hair, but not red. Udmurts and north Caucasians are notorious for their red heads.:ranger:

[Transhumanist]

what quantity? And does any group exceed this quantity but not speak a Semitic language (Armenians, perhaps)?

This should give you an idea (duplicate populations not included):

Saudis 71.5 Afroasiatic
Yemen_Jews 71.1 Afroasiatic
Bedouin 41.1 Afroasiatic
Yemenese 29.5 Afroasiatic
Jordanians_19 28.7 Afroasiatic
Syrians 28.4 Afroasiatic
Ethiopian_Jews 25.9 Afroasiatic
Samaritans 25.9 Afroasiatic
Libya 25 Afroasiatic
Palestinian 24.7 Afroasiatic
Egypt 24.3 Afroasiatic
Lebanese 23.9 Afroasiatic
Ethiopians 23.5 Afroasiatic
Iraq_Jews 22 Afroasiatic
Georgia_Jews 21.6 Afroasiatic
Iranian_Jews 20.5 Afroasiatic
Druze 20 Afroasiatic
Assyrian_D 19.4 Afroasiatic
Sahara_OCC 19.1 Afroasiatic
-------------------------------------
Azerbaijan_Jews 17.7 Afroasiatic
Uzbekistan_Jews 17.3 Afroasiatic
-------------------------------------
Cypriots 15.9 Non-Afroasiatic
Algeria 15.7 Afroasiatic
Morocco_Jews 15.5 Afroasiatic
Sephardic_Jews 14.5 Afroasiatic
Kurd_D 14.1 Non-Afroasiatic
Ashkenazi_D 12.7 Afroasiatic
Armenian_D 12.2 Non-Afroasiatic
TUNISIA 11.8 Afroasiatic
Iranian_D 11.7 Non-Afroasiatic
Moroccans 11.5 Afroasiatic

You can even exclude the Uzbekistan Jews and Azerbaijan Jews, honestly, as they have obvious post-exilic Iranian/Caucasian admixture, based on their autosomal and Y-DNA, from what I have observed.

[gandalf]

I thought it would be interesting:D

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_1a0ed7c0.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_bda2281a.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3fb1657c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_34cba27c.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_75050371.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8575dd79.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58953213.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_0dc9bf41.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_8daf5e89.jpg
http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_3834661b.jpg

I've just notice something witch is SOO obvious on those photos :

I don't know if those guy are of the same family BUT

they ALL have this special big straight somewhere semitic nose !!!

All the same .

[Husaria]

I've just notice something witch is SOO obvious on those photos :

I don't know if those guy are of the same family BUT

they ALL have this special big straight somewhere semitic nose !!!

All the same .

I agree. I think they do look kind of like jews.
But, This area is very close to the khazar lands & was part of the Khazar empire I believe.
Jews may descend partially from Khazars

[Husaria]

Only blonde hair, but not red. Udmurts and north Caucasians are notorious for their red heads.:ranger:

Yes, Well most of these guys have Red beards or Reddish blonde hair.
Which is why I think they look like Udmurts.
Also some Udmurts have features like this.

I think the 2nd guy looks like an Udmurt.

[Austrvegr]

Only blonde hair, but not red. north Caucasians are notorious for their red heads.:ranger:

No, they are not. I have not seen a single red-headed North Caucasian in my life.

[Austrvegr]

They are not Middle Easterners. At least not genetically. It is apparent their Y-DNA lines entered the Caucasus (presuming origins external), when the Near East was a much different place. They barely have any of the "Southwest Asian" component. And, as Dienekes has demonstrated, the "Southwest Asian" component quite clearly correlates with Semitic languages and Arabian influence when it exceeds a certain quantity.

Another scatter plot based on y-DNA frequencies I prepared for a few populations, including a number of Christian ME populations from Haber et al. The Caucasians were not included, but knowing their major haplogroups (J1*, J2a*, J2a4b*, etc.), their placement would likely be consistent with geography. Which is to say, outside the grey (Middle East, Semitic-speaking) region.

Caucasians are decendants of Hurrians who used to populate Northern Middle East.

[Austrvegr]

One way or another, we are all isolated Middle-Easterners, including you.


We are all isolated Africans, although Europeans do not cluster with them and do not look like them, while Caucasians cluster with and look like other Middle Easterners.

[Humanophage]

They are not Middle Easterners. At least not genetically. It is apparent their Y-DNA lines entered the Caucasus (presuming origins external), when the Near East was a much different place. They barely have any of the "Southwest Asian" component. And, as Dienekes has demonstrated, the "Southwest Asian" component quite clearly correlates with Semitic languages and Arabian influence when it exceeds a certain quantity.
The Middle East is not entirely majority Semitic. What is your reason for excluding Iran and Turkey, the latter with a rather small SW Asian component? The West Asian component is more important in many Middle Eastern populations - not just Iranians and Turks, but also Druzes, Palestinians, the Lebanese, etc.

Curoi isn't claiming native Caucasians are Europeans, but he does seem to claim they are roughly equidistant from Europeans and Middle Easterners, making them neither this nor that. But that is not the case. They cluster further away from even southernmost Europeans than from Turks or Iranians, with which they cluster quite closely. There certainly are differences between Caucasian ethnic groups, but in a global - not regional (and that's a small region) - context they are hardly drastic.

[Macedonian]

I consider the Noxchi and the Ğalğaj two branches of the Vainakhs. I think that the best for them is to unite into one Vainakh Republic, forgetting the names Chechen and Ingush which are Russian colonialist terms for them, and by doing that they would "erase" the negative impression that the west has about them.

The most important thing for them is to retain their language(s) and culture, and not to be supressed by Russians like the Circassians (Cherkess, Adyghe and Kabarda) were. Whether they are in the Russian Federation or a separate subject, it's not important, as states are formed and dissolved over time, but ethnicity and language is more durable.

[Aviane]

The Chechens and Ingush people give me a Eastern European flavour which means they could fit in any Eastern Europe country easily.

[Dario Argento]

The Chechens and Ingush people give me a Eastern European flavour which means they could fit in any Eastern Europe country easily.

What do you mean by Eastern European flavour? They certainly don't look like Russians who are one of the Easternmost Europeans.

[Terek]

What do you mean by Eastern European flavour? They certainly don't look like Russians who are one of the Easternmost Europeans.

Russian is the most example of East European? Then what do I look like? Western?

[Dario Argento]

Russian is the most example of East European? Then what do I look like? Western?

Half middle eastern/northern euro? :D

[Terek]

Half middle eastern/northern euro? :D

Chechen =/= Middle Eastern :rolleyes:

Dont worry, I still like you :wink

[esaima]

The look kinda "more northern" in the pictures compared to e.g. Georgians I think.

[qwerty7]

I think that in these photographs assembled the entire collection of "white" population of Chechens and Ingush ... ....:D

[Matritensis]

Fili,Kili,Thorin and Balin (picture courtesy of Bilbo Baggins)


http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg

[qwerty7]

random photo of Chechens.
http://img.lenta.ru/news/2011/06/25/fans/picture.jpg



As we can see they are very mixed dark nazia. chechens have a "white people" but it's usually an exception to the rule.
even standard white Chechen "Kadyrov" (Presidium of Chechnya)
http://www.islamnews.ru/uploads/news/1253786911/news-HacaSEEBUl.jpg

has "mendal eyes", eye shape and Near Eastern form of the head.
(Armenoid Turkic influence). he is the de-pigmented armenoid.


I'm not a racist and tell you, nothing to fool ourselves. You should be proud that a variety of people.

[gandalf]

Fili,Kili,Thorin and Balin (picture courtesy of Bilbo Baggins)


http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_57d64f91.jpg

Yes , dwarfs ,
and they look like cretins with their islamic beard ,
and sure they are because they are islamic .

[Agrippa]

http://cs10230.vkontakte.ru/u26050976/129727849/x_58beac6e.jpg

The left guy looks very, classic Indo-European, pred. Eastnordid, probably Pontid/Mediterranid tendencies - on this picture. The long hair and hairstyle adds to that of course...


They are certainly a lot more unrelated to Europeans than to Middle Easterners. Let me illustrate the point:

You can't compare them properly to Swedes and Hungarians (Northern and Central), but must compare them with South Eastern Europeans and Eastern Europeans.

(Especially) Caucasians are no Europeans and they are no Near Easterners proper, biologically at least, but in between, similar to Western Turks and some Lebanese I might add.

[ultraLaser]

there is nothing weird to have such examples like the photos on the first page of this thread, we have alot of different types you can meet in our mountains in Dagestan or even in Chechenya, because we have the same Kavkazion race

[Smyrnian]

They look like a merging of nordic and arabic, it's pretty weird.
nothing arabid on them,dont get false view by looking their arabic fashion beards.
east-nordid-baltidx dinarid-armenid

[Imamudin]

Caucasians are decendants of Hurrians who used to populate Northern Middle East.

Chechens are actually one of the oldest Europeans, Russians came later from India.