Classify Dagestani singer

[Bakha]

Nurik Tatdanov

https://youtu.be/HCS1od5lS1o
https://i.ytimg.com/vi/HCS1od5lS1o/maxresdefault.jpg
http://i1.ytimg.com/vi/2DpCodMLdVE/maxresdefault.jpg

[Turul Karom]

Are they Avar Turk?

[Bakha]

Are they Avar Turk?
Avars are not Turkic
He is Kumyk, they speak Turkic language

[Turul Karom]

Avars are not Turkic
He is Kumyk, they speak Turkic language

Avars are Turkic. TA user Buusra can explain to you all about the Avar identity. She is also part Tatar.

[Hajimurad]

Avars are Turkic. TA user Buusra can explain to you all about the Avar identity. She is also part Tatar.

I am Avar and we are not Turkic. You confused us with Pannonian Avars (they were Turanid by race and speak Bulgarian Turkic language, similar to Chuvash). Our racial type is Taurid (Mtebid) and our language belong to Caucasian family. We call themselves Ma'arulal, and Kumyks (our Turkic neighbors) call us Tawlu. Both terms mean "Highlanders".

[Hajimurad]

Racially Nurik is Alpinized Taurid (Mtebid). Kumyks composed of three racial elements - Turanid (Khazars, Kipchaks), Mtebid (assimilated Chechens, Darghins, Avars) and Iranid (assimilated Terekeme - Turcomans from Azerbaijan). The only difference - unlike Turks Kumyks lack European component.

[Turul Karom]

I am Avar and we are not Turkic. You confused us with Pannonian Avars (they were Turanid by race and speak Bulgarian Turkic language, similar to Chuvash). Our racial type is Taurid (Mtebid) and our language belong to Caucasian family. We call themselves Ma'arulal, and Kumyks (our Turkic neighbors) call us Tawlu. Both terms mean "Highlanders".

I have spoken extensively with two academic women who are of Avar descent and identify as Turkic. One of whom associates themselves with the Panonian Avars who predated us in the Carpathian basin. I don't ever recur hearing the term Ma'arulal. Perhaps she is a different sort of Avar? She speaks Turkish and English, and has a very Turkic identity. Are you of the same Avars as Shamil the Avar?

[Hajimurad]

I have spoken extensively with two academic women who are of Avar descent and identify as Turkic. One of whom associates themselves with the Panonian Avars who predated us in the Carpathian basin. I don't ever recur hearing the term Ma'arulal. Perhaps she is a different sort of Avar? She speaks Turkish and English, and has a very Turkic identity. Are you of the same Avars as Shamil the Avar?

Imam Shamil is Caucasian Avar, born in Avar village Gimry in mountain Daghestan. Pannonian Avars never been in Daghestan. Khazars were composed mainly from Savirs, Barsils and Onogurs. Only these Bulgarian-speaking tribes were in plain Daghestan. After Khazar-Arab wars majority of Khazars fled to Volga Bulgaria and those who remained were assimilated by Kipchaks.
About these women: they are probably Turks of distant Avar ancestry, who forgotten their ancestral language, and want to turkify their genealogy.

[Satem]

Alpine+Mtebid

[Turul Karom]

Imam Shamil is Caucasian Avar, born in Avar village Gimry in mountain Daghestan. Pannonian Avars never been in Daghestan. Khazars were composed mainly from Savirs, Barsils and Onogurs. Only these Bulgarian-speaking tribes were in plain Daghestan. After Khazar-Arab wars majority of Khazars fled to Volga Bulgaria and those who remained were assimilated by Kipchaks.
About these women: they are probably Turks of distant Avar ancestry, who forgotten their ancestral language, and want to turkify their genealogy.

I am under the impression that these Caucasian Avars indeed were influenced by fellow Turkic peoples of various stock and share the same legacy as the Panonian Avars as they claim. I am a resource on Hungarian Turkic ancestry. I see no reason why they would want to Turkify themselves, since if they wished, they could simply associate with their Tatar background as their barometer for "Turkicness", but they rather select to call themselves "Avar". Which is why if they wanted the "easy" route, they would simply lean on that Tatar aspect of their ancestry. When I met them, I was under the impression that the Avar Turkic identity was gone with the arrival of the arriving Hungarians absorbing their Panonian remnants into our confederation. Why would they need to exaggerate about the Avar side? Perhaps this is a more nuanced topic of personal identity. The Avars who also went into Panonia were not from the Khazar Empire originally, but the Göktürk empire.

The Hungarians have been to Dagestan and have also left genetic and trace cultural landmarks.

[archangel]

Alpine

[Bakha]

Racially Nurik is Alpinized Taurid (Mtebid). Kumyks composed of three racial elements - Turanid (Khazars, Kipchaks), Mtebid (assimilated Chechens, Darghins, Avars) and Iranid (assimilated Terekeme - Turcomans from Azerbaijan). The only difference - unlike Turks Kumyks lack European component.
Great comment
Alpine + Mtebid is my opinion on him

[MustafaTekin]

Alpine

[Hajimurad]

I am under the impression that these Caucasian Avars indeed were influenced by fellow Turkic peoples of various stock and share the same legacy as the Panonian Avars as they claim. I am a resource on Hungarian Turkic ancestry. I see no reason why they would want to Turkify themselves, since if they wished, they could simply associate with their Tatar background as their barometer for "Turkicness", but they rather select to call themselves "Avar". Which is why if they wanted the "easy" route, they would simply lean on that Tatar aspect of their ancestry. When I met them, I was under the impression that the Avar Turkic identity was gone with the arrival of the arriving Hungarians absorbing their Panonian remnants into our confederation. Why would they need to exaggerate about the Avar side? Perhaps this is a more nuanced topic of personal identity. The Avars who also went into Panonia were not from the Khazar Empire originally, but the Göktürk empire.

The Hungarians have been to Dagestan and have also left genetic and trace cultural landmarks.

Magyars never been in Daghestan because my Republic wasn't located on their route. In Russia only Bashkirs and Mishar Tatars have any significant Magyar ancestry. Majority of Russian Muslim Turkics descended from Kipchaks and assimilated aborigines (Bulgars, Finns, Caucasians etc.).

[Turul Karom]

Magyars never been in Daghestan because my Republic wasn't located on their route. In Russia only Bashkirs and Mishar Tatars have any significant Magyar ancestry. Majority of Russian Muslim Turkics descended from Kipchaks and assimilated aborigines (Bulgars, Finns, Caucasians etc.).

I agree that the Bashkirs and the Mishar Tatars have our ancestry. But my friend, about the presence in Daghestan, you are mistaken, and I will explain.

See the journey of Friar Julian, who traced the patterns of the pre-settlement Hungarians, point 2 (Vetus/Antiqua) is a "Madzsar" area. This point is exactly where Daghestan is today, where the modern Avar group lives. He was also to make contact with the Asian region Magyars at point 1 on the map, who were able to be communicated with and still maintained their independence several hundred years after our conquest of the Carpathian basin. This ended with the Mongol invasions, which destroyed the Asian region Magyars as an independent group.

https://i.imgur.com/KW8bVWH.png

https://i.imgur.com/RTn3j8F.png

[Hajimurad]

I agree that the Bashkirs and the Mishar Tatars have our ancestry. But my friend, about the presence in Daghestan, you are mistaken, and I will explain.

See the journey of Friar Julian, who traced the patterns of the pre-settlement Hungarians, point 2 (Vetus/Antiqua) is a "Madzsar" area. This point is exactly where Daghestan is today, where the modern Avar group lives. He was also to make contact with the Asian region Magyars at point 1 on the map, who were able to be communicated with and still maintained their independence several hundred years after our conquest of the Carpathian basin. This ended with the Mongol invasions, which destroyed the Asian region Magyars as an independent group.

https://i.imgur.com/KW8bVWH.png

https://i.imgur.com/RTn3j8F.png

Majar city was located in Stavropol Krai, not in Daghestan. In Golden Horde times it's population was Alan and Kipchak. After Tamerlane invasion, inhabitants of Majar fled to Ossetia and Kabardino-Balkaria.
Avars always lived in mountains and were resettled to plains of Daghestan after WWII. We are aborigines of Western Daghestan and have many tribes (Dido, Andi, Akhwakh etc). One of our tribes (Diduri) was first mentioned by Strabo as living on Ceraunian mountains (Andi mountain range on Chechen-Daghestan border).

[Nanushka]

I am Avar and we are not Turkic. You confused us with Pannonian Avars (they were Turanid by race and speak Bulgarian Turkic language, similar to Chuvash). Our racial type is Taurid (Mtebid) and our language belong to Caucasian family. We call themselves Ma'arulal, and Kumyks (our Turkic neighbors) call us Tawlu. Both terms mean "Highlanders".


Magyars never been in Daghestan because my Republic wasn't located on their route. In Russia only Bashkirs and Mishar Tatars have any significant Magyar ancestry. Majority of Russian Muslim Turkics descended from Kipchaks and assimilated aborigines (Bulgars, Finns, Caucasians etc.).

Oh how I am really fed up with these typical 'misguided' northern Caucasians who have not even researched about their real origins and lost the honour of being a part of Turkic steppe ancestry. But obviously you prefer to indentify as a 'muslim' , not a Turkic, godforbid, lol, look at your avatar: D Castrated real identity and approval of soviet intentions.. You live there but you are unable to read the obvious evidence even carved in the mountains. 'Magyars, Avars were never in Dagestan'.. so pathetic. You have no idea. How about Hunzakh Avars, brother(!)? I dont want to waste time trying to post proof as I have little time and its a waste of time here really, but read this article at least although it is mostly crap and keep quiet forever

file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_and_Magyars_of_the_Caucasus.pdf

Avars are not Turkic
He is Kumyk, they speak Turkic language

Pls dont make comments on topics you have no idea and information about 'indo-european' ruski, or should I say you still want northern Caucasians to parrot the same old shit you imposed on them throughout decades

[Hajimurad]

Oh how I am really fed up with these typical 'misguided' northern Caucasians who have not even researched about their real origins and lost the honour of being a part of Turkic steppe ancestry. But obviously you prefer to indentify as a 'muslim' , not a Turkic, godforbid, lol, look at your avatar: D Castrated real identity and approval of soviet intentions.. You live there but you are unable to read the obvious evidence even carved in the mountains. 'Magyars, Avars were never in Dagestan'.. so pathetic. You have no idea. How about Hunzakh Avars, brother(!)? I dont want to waste time trying to post proof as I have little time and its a waste of time here really, but read this article at least although it is mostly crap and keep quiet forever

file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_and_Magyars_of_the_Caucasus.pdf


Pls dont make comments on topics you have no idea and information about 'indo-european' ruski, or should I say you still want northern Caucasians to parrot the same old shit you imposed on them throughout decades

Said Turkish woman, who never been in Daghestan and forget language of ancestors. If you an Avar - prove that.
About Huns. Khunzakh never been connected to Huns. When Arabs came to Daghestan, it's was called Khumzakh (mispronounced in Arabic as Khumraj, because ra and za letters and those of kha and jim are similar in Arabic alphabet). Rulers of Sarir traced their descent from Bahram Chubin (Persian general) and bore Zoroastrian and Nestorian names.
You called me misguided, but I'm speak my native tongue (of Caucasian family) and practise Islam, but you assimilated into mainstream Turkish Europeanized society and adhere to Tengriism (copy of European Neo-Paganism with Turkic names) .

[Nanushka]

Said Turkish woman, who never been in Daghestan and forget language of ancestors. If you an Avar - prove that.
About Huns. Khunzakh never been connected to Huns. When Arabs came to Daghestan, it's was called Khumzakh (mispronounced in Arabic as Khumraj, because ra and za letters and those of kha and jim are similar in Arabic alphabet). Rulers of Sarir traced their descent from Bahram Chubin (Persian general) and bore Zoroastrian and Nestorian names.
You called me misguided, but I'm speak my native tongue (of Caucasian family) and practise Islam, but you assimilated into mainstream Turkish Europeanized society and adhere to Tengriism (copy of European Neo-Paganism with Turkic names) .

I am an Avar, I know the language enough so I can analyze it and I dont have to prove that! and if you are a 'real' Avar (not Avarized Avar(!)) and not a russian troll, you would understand it from my behaviour because I can easily kill you if you go on bulshitting about me and my heritage! But if you insist on it Loki can correct you too. 'Arabs' lol, 'Persian' lolol, islamic shittalking about my people and the name Hunzakh, shame on you brainwashed and assimilated muslim. Me, my family and most of the Avars around me are either blonde or ginger with light eyes, we reflect our real steppe Turkic blood and are proud to be part of our big Turkish family here in Turkey, not assimilated and lost our pride like you there! Even my GEDmatch test results reflect how close I am with Kumukhs and other Turkics as well as some europeans, just proving the path our ancestors followed on the way to europe

Go on practising false religion of today and keep away from the real research about our roots! You are not even aware of the basic research, facts and findings about our glorious past! Live on in your little cell happily just like the russians want you to. And Tengriism...The ultimate religion of our ancestors... It is not copy but your Islam today is in the dirty hands of wahabis and you are worshipping their god! Tengriism is far more relevant and for real than so called Islam today and I just dont care about it

[Ford]

How can Avars be Turkic when their language is unrelated to Turkic languages and have an isolated language native to Caucasus only?

[Nanushka]

How can Avars be Turkic when their language is unrelated to Turkic languages and have an isolated language native to Caucasus only?

My, please. You are uninformed but at least I believe you can listen and learn. Bulgars today speak a slavic language too but they are connected to Bulgar Kaghanate just like we are connected to Avar Kaghanate. There is NO coincidence in history. Politics can never stop reality to unearth, it shines like the sun eventually

[Hajimurad]

I am an Avar, I know the language enough so I can analyze it and I dont have to prove that! and if you are a 'real' Avar (not Avarized Avar(!)) and not a russian troll, you would understand it from my behaviour because I can easily kill you if you go on bulshitting about me and my heritage! But if you insist on it Loki can correct you too. 'Arabs' lol, 'Persian' lolol, islamic shittalking about my people and the name Hunzakh, shame on you brainwashed and assimilated muslim. Me, my family and most of the Avars around me are either blonde or ginger with light eyes, we reflect our real steppe Turkic blood and are proud to be part of our big Turkish family here in Turkey, not assimilated and lost our pride like you there! Even my GEDmatch test results reflect how close I am with Kumukhs and other Turkics as well as some europeans, just proving the path our ancestors followed on the way to europe

Go on practising false religion of today and keep away from the real research about our roots! You are not even aware of the basic research, facts and findings about our glorious past! Live on in your little cell happily just like the russians want you to. And Tengriism...The ultimate religion of our ancestors... It is not copy but your Islam today is in the dirty hands of wahabis and you are worshipping their god! Tengriism is far more relevant and for real than so called Islam today and I just dont care about it

Caucasian Avars and Turkics are very different peoples. We aren't descended from Pannonian Avars, because we don't speak Chuvash language and we aren't Turanid. Theories about blonde and blue-eyed Turkics created by racist Russian scientists, like Grumm-Grzhimaylo or Gumilyov in order to justify Slavic domination on Siberia. And one point: how me can be assimilated if I speak my native tongue and practise Islam while you completely forgot Caucasian Avar language and adhere to Turkic version of Neo-Paganism.
Imam Shamil isn't your hero. He want create Islamist state, based on Sharia law, and prohibited Adat. His hero was Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) and not hated Khunzakh nutsals. Caucasian Avars never worshipped Tengri. Before Islam they worshipped mountains. When Georgians christianize Khunzakh nutsals they wrote on crosses not Chuvash-like inscription, but those in Caucasian Avar language. If you ashamed of non-Turkicity of Avar language, it's your problem.

[Hajimurad]

How can Avars be Turkic when their language is unrelated to Turkic languages and have an isolated language native to Caucasus only?

Because some Caucasians (especially living in Turkey) want to accociate themselves with great Turkic empires. This is similar to Black Americans, claiming Ancient Egypt as theirs and Nordicists, claiming Ancient Greece and Rome. These Caucasians even claim Turanid-looking tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Uzbek or Bashkir) as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.

[Hajimurad]

In order to refute these wild claims:
1) Different race - Caucasian Avars are Mtebid, while pure tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Nogay, Uzbek) are Turanid.
2)Different genetics - Avar men carry J1 and G2 Y-dna haplogroups, while tribal Turkics have those of R1a and N1.
3) Last - language:
English Avar Kumyk (Turkic)
dog hoy it
water hin\лъин suv
blood bi qan
village rosu yurt
fire tsa\цIа at
eat kwanayze asha
Only self-hating manqurts, who want to steal Turkic culture, can make wild claims about Turkic nature of Caucasian Avars. We like Muslim Turkey (especially Ottoman empire), but we don't like anti-Caucasians.

[Nanushka]

In order to refute these wild claims:
1) Different race - Caucasian Avars are Mtebid, while pure tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Nogay, Uzbek) are Turanid.
2)Different genetics - Avar men carry J1 and G2 Y-dna haplogroups, while tribal Turkics have those of R1a and N1.
3) Last - language:
English Avar Kumyk (Turkic)
dog hoy it
water hin\лъин suv
blood bi qan
village rosu yurt
fire tsa\цIа at
eat kwanayze asha
Only self-hating manqurts, who want to steal Turkic culture, can make wild claims about Turkic nature of Caucasian Avars. We like Muslim Turkey (especially Ottoman empire), but we don't like anti-Caucasians.

Manqurt is you who have lost his memory and honour due to the tight skin russians covered your head with imperial lies and you are happily wearing it while making your situation worse by swallowing islamic opium. However I am not falling for it, searching for the truth and hidden knowledge about my past all my life, especially in academia. Why would I steal Turkic culture lol, it is already my culture.. but apparently you prefer to be a gypsy whose origin goes back to pashtuns along with persians or you are ready to accept that you come from a small number of arabs that settled in Dagestan, but who knows, maybe you are, because as everybody knows, blood talks

Well done, you have achieved to unite Islam-haters around you with shittalking about Turkics, enjoy your success :thumb001: This proves Turkism is a far bigger threat than Islam, happy to see it

but wait a minute, of course I have more to say, just need to study for my final paper a bit now, then I will be putting my evidence along with comparisons about my Turkic Avarian and Turkish to put the Turkish layer forward in it because I am the one who master two langauages, not you! And believe me, muslim, you dont refute anything

[Hajimurad]

Manqurt is you who have lost his memory and honour due to the tight skin russians covered your head with imperial lies and you are happily wearing it while making your situation worse by swallowing islamic opium. However I am not falling for it, searching for the truth and hidden knowledge about my past all my life, especially in academia. Why would I steal Turkic culture lol, it is already my culture.. but apparently you prefer to be a gypsy whose origin goes back to pashtuns along with persians or you are ready to accept that you come from a small number of arabs that settled in Dagestan, but who knows, maybe you are, because as everybody knows, blood talks

Well done, you have achieved to unite Islam-haters around you with shittalking about Turkics, enjoy your success :thumb001: This proves Turkism is a far bigger threat than Islam, happy to see it

but wait a minute, of course I have more to say, just need to study for my final paper a bit now, then I will be putting my evidence along with comparisons about my Turkic Avarian and Turkish to put the Turkish layer forward in it because I am the one who master two langauages, not you! And believe me, muslim, you dont refute anything

How Caucasian Avar may be Turkic if they:
1) don't have Turkic Y-DNA (R1a, R1b-m73, Q and N1 haplogroups)?
2) doesn't descend from Turkic tribes (Kangly, Kipchak, Qajar, Afshar etc)?
3) doesn't resemble tribal Turkics (Kazakhs, Nogays)?
4)speak a language akin to Darghin, Lak or Chechen languages?
Calling Avars as Turkic is same as calling Latin American Indians as Spaniards. I never prefer to be a Gypsy because I respect my ancestors unlike you.
Very funny majority of Pashtuns and Tajiks genetically share same paternal haplogroup as Kazan Tatars and Chuvash(R1a-Z2124), who are descendants of Bulgars. Avars of Daghestan doesn't have this haplogroup. And our J1 haplogroup isn't Semitic by origin but comes from our true Caucasian-speaking ancestors.
Majority of your beloved islamophobes hate Turkey because it's rump state of Ottoman caliphate. Great Turkic empires were created by Muslim Oghuz and Karluk Turkics, not by pagan Turkics (except short-lived Hun and Kokturk khanates). Seljuk, Ottoman, Safavi, Moghul, Qarakhanid, Ghaznavi and Khwarizm empires were created by Muslim Turks, which you hate. Your ancestors came as Muslim muhajirs and were accepted by Muslim caliph. It's very funny how Turkic nationalists, who have dubious origin, accuse Ottoman sultans (who came from Turkmen Kayi tribe) as being anti-Turkish, because of their religion.
Although I like Turkic history and culture but I don't want appropriate this culture unlike self-hating anti-Caucasian pseudo-Turks, who call aborigines of Caucasus as Gypsies and claim Nogays and Kazakhs as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.

[Jana]

Caspid. I think he is good example of Caspian phenotype, which is quite common in northeast Caucasus.

[Kyp]

Caspid. I think he is good example of Caspian phenotype, which is quite common in northeast Caucasus.

Caspian phenotype is more common in Eastern Transcaucasia not northeast

[Jana]

Caspian phenotype is more common in Eastern Transcaucasia not northeast

Peaks in Azerbaijan? Which population has largest concentration of Caspid phenotype?

[Kyp]

Peaks in Azerbaijan? Which population has largest concentration of Caspid phenotype?

Azerbaijan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnATBhp-lY

[Jana]

Because some Caucasians (especially living in Turkey) want to accociate themselves with great Turkic empires. This is similar to Black Americans, claiming Ancient Egypt as theirs and Nordicists, claiming Ancient Greece and Rome. These Caucasians even claim Turanid-looking tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Uzbek or Bashkir) as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.

Could you help me with advice for my phenotype calculator?
I used Nogay as source population for Turanid phenotype, and Georgians Imen for mtebids. Are Georgians most mtebid population in Caucasus or I can use better examples?

[Hajimurad]

Caspid. I think he is good example of Caspian phenotype, which is quite common in northeast Caucasus.

He isn't of Caspian phenotype, because he is brachycephalic and alpinized. The so-called Caspian phenotype is a part of Iranid, which common in Azerbaijan and South Daghestan (among Lezgins and Kumyks).

[Jana]

Azerbaijan


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLnATBhp-lY

Thanks :)

[Jana]

Last question: which is better for Caspid, regular Azeri or Azeri Dagestan?

[Kyp]

Last question: which is better for Caspid, regular Azeri or Azeri Dagestan?

Tough question. Not too familiar with Dagestan Azeris. I think Dagestani Azeris are more Mtebid than Caspid.

[Hajimurad]

Could you help me with advice for my phenotype calculator?
I used Nogay as source population for Turanid phenotype, and Georgians Imen for mtebids. Are Georgians most mtebid population in Caucasus or I can use better examples?

Most unmixed Mtebid populations are Vaynakhs (Chechens and Ingush) and peoples of mountain Daghestan (Laks, Avars, Darghins and related to them tribes), among Georgians - Svans and Khevsurs. Georgians of Imereti aren't Mtebid but belong to so-called Colchian type (Armenoid-Pontid mix).

[Jana]

Thank you a lot both! This will improve my calculator :)

[itilvolga]

Alpine + Mtebid with some CM influences.

[Nanushka]

How Caucasian Avar may be Turkic if they:
1) don't have Turkic Y-DNA (R1a, R1b-m73, Q and N1 haplogroups)?
2) doesn't descend from Turkic tribes (Kangly, Kipchak, Qajar, Afshar etc)?
3) doesn't resemble tribal Turkics (Kazakhs, Nogays)?
4)speak a language akin to Darghin, Lak or Chechen languages?

Majority of your beloved islamophobes hate Turkey because it's rump state of Ottoman caliphate. Great Turkic empires were created by Muslim Oghuz and Karluk Turkics, not by pagan Turkics (except short-lived Hun and Kokturk khanates). Seljuk, Ottoman, Safavi, Moghul, Qarakhanid, Ghaznavi and Khwarizm empires were created by Muslim Turks, which you hate. Your ancestors came as Muslim muhajirs and were accepted by Muslim caliph. It's very funny how Turkic nationalists, who have dubious origin, accuse Ottoman sultans (who came from Turkmen Kayi tribe) as being anti-Turkish, because of their religion.
Although I like Turkic history and culture but I don't want appropriate this culture unlike self-hating anti-Caucasian pseudo-Turks, who call aborigines of Caucasus as Gypsies and claim Nogays and Kazakhs as Mongol-Chinese half-breeds.

Are you Polkovnik? No Avar that I’ve ever known speak or sound like this … maybe another troll.. anyway, your words about Ottomans and Turkish people reveal your agenda and you cant fool me with this bullshit like you can the europeans, go on working on them but be prepared to be attacked by a she-wolf when you are talking about her ancestors! You may be anything, even a gypsy I don’t care but I am a proud Avar girl whose ancestors as White Huns came from northern India to northern Caucasia as Avars and before that there were Kimmers there, a branch of Sarmatians, so they were proto-Turks. Even the name of Gimri, like said By Assyrian sources, where Samil was born reflects this name. So my family and people who arrived in Istanbul a hundred year ago were NOT just some noname 'muslims' but they knew who they were and where they were going, Sultan Resat placed them nearby Istanbul as he learnt they were Avars. He let them choose any place they wish around Yalova and they chose highland forest as it reminded home.

Also Avars are being invited cordially to Kurultaj, the ancestral gathering of Hunnic nations, every two years. Is it only because they bear the name of a glorious Turkic people by chance? The info you gave above is so cliche, is it the only knowledge you have? It is miserable and skindeep, you try to prove me false with this info? You dont even know Magyars and Avars settled in Dagestan for some time, I would never reply to an ignorant like you if I didnt feel an urge to make explanations for others. See these:

93595
its in Russian for you : D

file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_and_Magyars_of_the_Caucasus.pdf

And the ancient Turkic tamga (meaning ‘core’) found carved in the Dagestan mountains also found in the Hunzakh flag:

93597
93598
93596

All the Avars I spoke confirmed the meaning of Hunzakh (‘from the Huns’), even the ones in Avaria in Dagestan. Everybody knows the meaning of silver wolf on flag, right? We have the same gold-silver and bone/horn mastery like our elite ancestors from steppes, and in my village I grew up seeing the Avar horns decoreated with silver on our walls, just like Magyar horns. We used to listen to our two-string Khumuz (Kopuz)/Tamur in our dances when I was a child, which definitely reflects our Turkic past! My people loved horses and ate even horse-flesh in certain occasions while they were keeping it as dried in the step way.

Academics like Haral Haarman, Omeljan Pritsak and Timur Aytberov say contemporary Avars come from Avar elites that mixed with local people there. Menandros Protector as well as Oljas Suleimanov and some Turkish academics write Avars arrived in northern Caucasia and repelled Sabirs out of Caucasus and caused Onogurs, Kutrigurs and Saragurs to move to west around 552-557
Oh, btw I am not writing these to convince you, if you are real Avar you should already know them. These are for other readers

.. and as for the answers:
1.What is Turkic y-DNA? Is there only one? who says that? I have been researching and learning about it more for a while and results are very interesting: Q is not Turkic, it is Mongol while R1 and N1 are so but J1 is also proto-Turkic as it descends from Sarmatians who ruled the area for a long time. Genealogy experts I am currently in touch with say this is how it must have happened according to the historical movements and the area J1 occupies today. There is R1 in Dagestan too, low % ofc but most probably Avar elites who stayed there mixed with Sarmatian origin people and even from the ones from south in time. This is my idea and I keep on researching

2. Apparently they the only tribes that you know of Turkics but you confuse the time and series of them. We descend from Avars and Avars were from Hun stock, before them were the Ting-ling and Kangli. The others you mentioned are younger tribes. Menandros and Simokattes say Avars ara also related to Ogurs

3.resemble Turkics? Are you serious? There are so many Turanid looking people in my village, but genuine Avars are not only Turanid looking but mostly north Pontid, CM and even have got some nordic traits to some extent. Mtebid belongs to Dargins and other lowland peoples mostly

4.ok, language: Both Avarian and Turkish are agglutinative languages although there is insignificant gender in Avarian possibly passed from trying to write and speak the langauge like arabs after turning Islam in 12.century. In the highlands languages changes easily, however, he main verbs like ‘behol’ = bol = ol (to be) and ‘balakh’=bak (look) are the same in Avar and Turkish languages, and even these two are enough to prove the common origin, but there are many unloanable common words like Juy=Şey (thing), tsak=çok (many) and some colours like kah(ila)=kök(sül) (blue) and çara=kara (black) along with numbers

I am not self-hating but self-aware while you are a subconscious self-hater who claim to come from some Iranics or Arabs, lol, these are your words so, its not me but you who disgrace his ancestors. Thank god I have got other Avar friends from Dagestan who love Turkish people and listen to me with repsect when I give lectures them about 'real' history, but of course they are not 'in charge' like you, they are genuine


Calling as Turkic is same as calling Latin American Indians as Spaniards. I never prefer to be a Gypsy because I respect my ancestors unlike you.
Very funny majority of Pashtuns and Tajiks genetically share same paternal haplogroup as Kazan Tatars and Chuvash(R1a-Z2124), who are descendants of Bulgars. Avars of Daghestan doesn't have this haplogroup. And our J1 haplogroup isn't Semitic by origin but comes from our true Caucasian-speaking ancestors.

No, first of all replace your senseless sentence above with ‘saying Avars today are not related to Avar Kghanate is same as saying Bulgars today are not related to Bulgar Kghanate’. You have no idea about your ancestors, their migration routes and origin. Why do you think that there exist red hair and light eyes among some northern Indians along with R1a and R1b? It comes from Huns settled in northern India and western Turkstan region, they carried them to Caucasus and Europe and mixed with the locals there, scientific fact, you just need to read some articles. If you dont want, its your problem

Avars are not like you, I know how they behave and sound (for I have many of them as family and friends from both Turkey and Russia), especially when it comes to Turkey and Turks. If you really an Avar, show it, instead of fighting with me respect me with your manners and learn about your origins well

[Hajimurad]

Are you Polkovnik? No Avar that I’ve ever known speak or sound like this … maybe another troll.. anyway, your words about Ottomans and Turkish people reveal your agenda and you cant fool me with this bullshit like you can the europeans, go on working on them but be prepared to be attacked by a she-wolf when you are talking about her ancestors! You may be anything, even a gypsy I don’t care but I am a proud Avar girl whose ancestors as White Huns came from northern India to northern Caucasia as Avars and before that there were Kimmers there, a branch of Sarmatians, so they were proto-Turks. Even the name of Gimri, like said By Assyrian sources, where Samil was born reflects this name. So my family and people who arrived in Istanbul a hundred year ago were NOT just some noname 'muslims' but they knew who they were and where they were going, Sultan Resat placed them nearby Istanbul as he learnt they were Avars. He let them choose any place they wish around Yalova and they chose highland forest as it reminded home.
No, I'm not polkovnik because I never served in Russian army or police.
Proud Avar girl who don't know Avar language hahahaha..... Do you know Avars never pronounced Gimri but Genub (from Geni "pear"). Only Avar-hating freaks like Kamil Aliyev or Abdulnasyr Kadyrov (they both aren't Avars, but Kumyks of Darghin origin) can make such wild statements.


Also Avars are being invited cordially to Kurultaj, the ancestral gathering of Hunnic nations, every two years. Is it only because they bear the name of a glorious Turkic people by chance? The info you gave above is so cliche, is it the only knowledge you have? It is miserable and skindeep, you try to prove me false with this info? You dont even know Magyars and Avars settled in Dagestan for some time, I would never reply to an ignorant like you if I didnt feel an urge to make explanations for others. See these:

93595
its in Russian for you : D

file:///C:/Users/hp/Downloads/Huns_and_Magyars_of_the_Caucasus.pdf

And the ancient Turkic tamga (meaning ‘core’) found carved in the Dagestan mountains also found in the Hunzakh flag:

93597
93598
93596

All the Avars I spoke confirmed the meaning of Hunzakh (‘from the Huns’), even the ones in Avaria in Dagestan. Everybody knows the meaning of silver wolf on flag, right? We have the same gold-silver and bone/horn mastery like our elite ancestors from steppes, and in my village I grew up seeing the Avar horns decoreated with silver on our walls, just like Magyar horns. We used to listen to our two-string Khumuz (Kopuz)/Tamur in our dances when I was a child, which definitely reflects our Turkic past! My people loved horses and ate even horse-flesh in certain occasions while they were keeping it as dried in the step way.
I live in Kizilyurt district where been Belenjer (capital of Khazaria). Last remnants of Khazars after Arab wars were annihilated by Kipchaks. When my ancestors came from mountains and founded Miaqu (Russian-Kumyk Miatli) settlement they crushed Kipchak balbal (heathen idol) and made this land Caucasian and Islamic. Khunzakh (not Hunzakh) was vassal of Khazaria and Golden Horde, whose rulers want to make free mountaineers into their subjects. But our tribal republics based on military democracy won over these invaders. Wolf with swastika flag is a symbol of Khunzakh khanate not of our tribal republics (Akhwakh, Andi, Dido, Hindalal/Koysubu, Baqt'hukkh/Gunbet, Naqbakh/Salatau and others). Elite of Khunzakh khanate was Turkicized by culture and was seen as alien by majority of Avars.


Academics like Haral Haarman, Omeljan Pritsak and Timur Aytberov say contemporary Avars come from Avar elites that mixed with local people there. Menandros Protector as well as Oljas Suleimanov and some Turkish academics write Avars arrived in northern Caucasia and repelled Sabirs out of Caucasus and caused Onogurs, Kutrigurs and Saragurs to move to west around 552-557
Oh, btw I am not writing these to convince you, if you are real Avar you should already know them. These are for other readers

Excuse me, but Bulgars are Turkic nomadic tribes from Siberia. Avars are aborigines of Caucasus. If you forgot language of your ancestors and often confuse Caucasian Avars with Pannonian Avars it's your problem.


1.What is Turkic y-DNA? Is there only one? who says that? I have been researching and learning about it more for a while and results are very interesting: Q is not Turkic, it is Mongol while R1 and N1 are so but J1 is also proto-Turkic as it descends from Sarmatians who ruled the area for a long time. Genealogy experts I am currently in touch with say this is how it must have happened according to the historical movements and the area J1 occupies today. There is R1 in Dagestan too, low % ofc but most probably Avar elites who stayed there mixed with Sarmatian origin people and even from the ones from south in time. This is my idea and I keep on researching

2. Apparently they the only tribes that you know of Turkics but you confuse the time and series of them. We descend from Avars and Avars were from Hun stock, before them were the Ting-ling and Kangli. The others you mentioned are younger tribes. Menandros and Simokattes say Avars ara also related to Ogurs

3.resemble Turkics? Are you serious? There are so many Turanid looking people in my village, but genuine Avars are not only Turanid looking but mostly north Pontid, CM and even have got some nordic traits to some extent. Mtebid belongs to Dargins and other lowland peoples mostly

4.ok, language: Both Avarian and Turkish are agglutinative languages although there is insignificant gender in Avarian possibly passed from trying to write and speak the langauge like arabs after turning Islam in 12.century. In the highlands languages changes easily, however, he main verbs like ‘behol’ = bol = ol (to be) and ‘balakh’=bak (look) are the same in Avar and Turkish languages, and even these two are enough to prove the common origin, but there are many unloanable common words like Juy=Şey (thing), tsak=çok (many) and some colours like kah(ila)=kök(sül) (blue) and çara=kara (black) along with numbers

I am not self-hating but self-aware while you are a subconscious self-hater who claim to come from some Iranics or Arabs, lol, these are your words so, its not me but you who disgrace his ancestors. Thank god I have got other Avar friends from Dagestan who love Turkish people and listen to me with repsect when I give lectures them about 'real' history, but of course they are not 'in charge' like you, they are genuine



No, first of all replace your senseless sentence above with ‘saying Avars today are not related to Avar Kghanate is same as saying Bulgars today are not related to Bulgar Kghanate’. You have no idea about your ancestors, their migration routes and origin. Why do you think that there exist red hair and light eyes among some northern Indians along with R1a and R1b? It comes from Huns settled in northern India and western Turkstan region, they carried them to Caucasus and Europe and mixed with the locals there, scientific fact, you just need to read some articles. If you dont want, its your problem

Avars are not like you, I know how they behave and sound (for I have many of them as family and friends from both Turkey and Russia), especially when it comes to Turkey and Turks. If you really an Avar, show it, instead of fighting with me respect me with your manners and learn about your origins well
Your ignorance about your ancestors is so blatant :picard2:
1. Yuruks of Turkey, Qajars of Azerbaijan and Tatars with Nogays have nothing common to us. If you descended from Nadir-shah (pure Turk from Afshar tribe) then you isn't Avar.
2.Pannonian Avars were Mongoloid Chuvash-speakers. Avars of Daghestan speak Caucasian language and Caucasoid.
3.Avars north Pontid? Do you seen any Avar in your life? Even lighter Avars doesn't resemble Kazan Tatars or Russians. Our people often mocked by Kumyks as having big noses. And Darghins are mountain people, lowland is always occupied by Kumyks.
4.black - ch'e'er (not cara), blue - qahab (not kah), many - 'emer (not ts'aq which means better), behul - could be (not to be), balah (not balakh) - look. You prove your manqurtness.
If light hair and blue eyes came with Turkics why Azerbaijanis are swarthier than Akhwakh Avars and Laks (both people are majority J1 y-dna haplogroup and were isolated from plains).
I'm aboriginal inhabitant of Eastern Caucasus speak language of my ancestors and profess religion for which Imam Shamil fought. I like Turks but I don't like manqurts, Nordicists and Pan-Turkists like you. You should replace jihadist Imam Shamil with Nadir-shah, who massacred many Daghestanis but was a Turkmen.

[Nakhchi]

In order to refute these wild claims:
1) Different race - Caucasian Avars are Mtebid, while pure tribal Turkics (Kazakh, Nogay, Uzbek) are Turanid.
2)Different genetics - Avar men carry J1 and G2 Y-dna haplogroups, while tribal Turkics have those of R1a and N1.
3) Last - language:
English Avar Kumyk (Turkic)
dog hoy it
water hin\лъин suv
blood bi qan
village rosu yurt
fire tsa\цIа at
eat kwanayze asha
Only self-hating manqurts, who want to steal Turkic culture, can make wild claims about Turkic nature of Caucasian Avars. We like Muslim Turkey (especially Ottoman empire), but we don't like anti-Caucasians.

Very close to Chechen, at least "khin"(khi) and "tsa"(tse).

[kiko]

Irano-Afghan + Asiatic Alpine + Mtebid

[Zroota]

Dinaro-CM + Alpine (but that's just based on one video and a pic, so I'm not entirely confident)

Looks a bit like Ashton Kutcher and George Clooney, btw.

[Hajimurad]

Very close to Chechen, at least "khin"(khi) and "tsa"(tse).

Not so close. Chechen and Avar languages are different as Germanic and Slav. Our ancestors spoke one language in Stone Age and divided after Bronze age. But nowadays we share similar culture, religion and racial type. The only thing divided us is an language and territorial conflict over Aukh.

[Nakhchi]

Not so close. Chechen and Avar languages are different as Germanic and Slav. Our ancestors spoke one language in Stone Age and divided after Bronze age. But nowadays we share similar culture, religion and racial type. The only thing divided us is an language and territorial conflict over Aukh.

Yeah ofc not that close, i cant understand Avar at all but interesting that we share many similar words. Yes the Aukh territory and conflict is a very serious issue that must be solved one day.

[Nanushka]

blah blah blah

Pff so bored, you are not even worth replying, yet another flurry troll in charge of trying to defute Turkicness of Avars as if this is possible. My time is too precious to waste writing to a supposed Caucasian(!) whose origin is unclear :bored: You have NO evidence to prove your words and you will never have, so the best thing you can do to thumb me dow like you did, lol. You are not an expert here nor even a real person-even if you are, you are illitrate and have bad-faith. There are one point or two that I want to make though


When my ancestors came from mountains and founded Miaqu (Russian-Kumyk Miatli) settlement they crushed Kipchak balbal (heathen idol) and made this land Caucasian and Islamic

Who were your ancestors, manqurt? You are the definition of a manqurt, do you know that, with the russian/arab/persian skin on your head that you are happily wearing, dont look at anywhere else but the mirror to see it. Did they appear out of blue in the mountians or out of the soil suddenly? or maybe they were settled there by fake god even before islam, waiting to help their brothers, ahaha. You have no idea about who they were: there lived Sarmatians before Huns-Bulgars-Avars arrived and Kipchak federation, and Kipchaks were a younger people ruled there.. and Avars carved the Turkic rune (that turned swastika later on) in the mountains, not Kipchaks! Read real history and research about cultural findings first. Oh, and just to remind you, I am doctorating in cultural anthropology


Khunzakh (not Hunzakh)
even 10 years-old know that Khunzah is Hunzah, who are you trying to fool?


Wolf with swastika flag is a symbol of Khunzakh khanate not of our tribal republics (Akhwakh, Andi, Dido, Hindalal/Koysubu, Baqt'hukkh/Gunbet, Naqbakh/Salatau and others). Elite of Khunzakh khanate was Turkicized by culture and was seen as alien by majority of Avars

Now you are accepting and approaching to the truth:) Hunzah elites were Turkic, Avars to be precise, not Turkicized as you try to twist while Akhwakh, Andi, Dido etc are the mixed tribes that includes some arabic, persian blood etc and Avarized later on. Transcaucasians and arab families that were settled there on islamic policy after Khazar-Arab wars loved to mix with Avars ofc as they loved their superior culture and phenotype. That Avar Khaganate was against the jihad doesnt change the reality that they were real Avar. I know all about it because I am a researcher, read, think and talk to people all the time and not islamic-biased like you!


Excuse me, but Bulgars are Turkic nomadic tribes from Siberia. Avars are aborigines of Caucasus. If you forgot language of your ancestors and often confuse Caucasian Avars with Pannonian Avars it's your problem.

No polkovnik, there is no confusion. like there is no coincidence in history. Bulgars today are heir to Bulgar Kaghanate like Avars today are heir to the Avar Kaghanate. Yes, Avars are the inhabitants of northern Caucasia now but they took their name from the elites they ruled them. They sure mixed with the aboriginal peoples who were of Kimmerian origin, as well as the some arabs in small number and persian-origins later on. and I dont have to prove that I grew up among Avars, beautiful in all ways, and we have never forgotten our language (factually Turkic in origin) to a noname mixed-blood like yourself


1.2.3...blah blah (hearsay with no evidence)
wait a minute:


Avars north Pontid? Do you seen any Avar in your life? If light hair and blue eyes came with Turkics why Azerbaijanis are swarthier than Akhwakh Avars and Laks (both people are majority J1 y-dna haplogroup and were isolated from plains).

No your illiteracy is so painful and unbearable. Of cours you isnt a real Avar, as bearing the name Avar only doesnt make you a remnant of this noble people (if we assume you are an 'Avar' from Dagestan, lol). They were partly mongoloid but mostly not, only ignorants or trolls like you can still claim that Avars were JuanJuans ahaha you are living in the wahabi swamps:D Read newer books and articles about history, but I really doubt you will. Nadir shah was Oghuz but so was Shah Ismail and he fought against Ottomans, so what point do you try to get to? Turkic peoples always fougth and killed one another

Btw, I dont have a very big nose but bigger compared to my stunning grandmother who was genuine Hunzah Avar, and noses are various in my village:) She had the lightest skin with red hair and slanted blue eyes as most of the Avars around me. See these pictures and dont steal my time anymore. Are you not smart enough to deduce that Turkics in southern Caucasus/Turkey mixed with swarthy persian-origin people and took over their dark phenotype mostly? Avars in the mountains kept their 'ginger/blonde' look mostly but they also ended up mixing with lowland peoples from south in northern Caucasia. Immigrants in Turkey are mixing too. This is so simple and a scientific fact, but of course trolls wont accept this

Depiction of Avars in Dagestan
94094

Avar hero Samil
94095

[Hajimurad]

Who were your ancestors, manqurt? You are the definition of a manqurt, do you know that, with the russian/arab/persian skin on your head that you are happily wearing, dont look at anywhere else but the mirror to see it. Did they appear out of blue in the mountians or out of the soil suddenly? or maybe they were settled there by fake god even before islam, waiting to help their brothers, ahaha. You have no idea about who they were: there lived Sarmatians before Huns-Bulgars-Avars arrived and Kipchak federation, and Kipchaks were a younger people ruled there.. and Avars carved the Turkic rune (that turned swastika later on) in the mountains, not Kipchaks! Read real history and research about cultural findings first. Oh, and just to remind you, I am doctorating in cultural anthropology
Jujah'alhul ts'a duye kapurgo khwaray churuk. This is Pannonian Avar 94102
This is Caucasian Avar leader Hajiko Makhachev 94103
this is Olympic winner of Avar and Kumyk ancestry Mansur Isayev 94104
Only a brain-damaged lunatic can say about Pannonians and Caucasians as one people.



even 10 years-old know that Khunzah is Hunzah, who are you trying to fool?
I figured - you never been in Daghestan




Now you are accepting and approaching to the truth Hunzah elites were Turkic, Avars to be precise, not Turkicized as you try to twist while Akhwakh, Andi, Dido etc are the mixed tribes that includes some arabic, persian blood etc and Avarized later on. Transcaucasians and arab families that were settled there on islamic policy after Khazar-Arab wars loved to mix with Avars ofc as they loved their superior culture and phenotype. That Avar Khaganate was against the jihad doesnt change the reality that they were real Avar. I know all about it because I am a researcher, read, think and talk to people all the time and not islamic-biased like you!
Akhwakh, Dido, Andi are mixed tribes with arab-persian blood? Way ebel, you really never met anyone from these groups. Dido and Andi tribes were mentioned by Strabo as aboriginal of Eastern Caucasus. Arabs fought against pagans of al-Dudania. And you forget one thing: Avars (pure-blooded aborigines of West Daghestan) have nothing of Arab or Persian blood. Descendants of Arabs and Persians live in Derbent and speak Azeri Turkic and they're your relatives, not mine.





Of cours you isnt a real Avar, as bearing the name Avar only doesnt make you a remnant of this noble people (if we assume you are an 'Avar' from Dagestan, lol). They were partly mongoloid but mostly not, only ignorants or trolls like you can still claim that Avars were JuanJuans ahaha you are living in the wahabi swamps:D Read newer books and articles about history, but I really doubt you will. Nadir shah was Oghuz but so was Shah Ismail and he fought against Ottomans, so what point do you try to get to? Turkic peoples always fougth and killed one another

Btw, I dont have a very big nose but bigger compared to my stunning grandmother who was genuine Hunzah Avar, and noses are various in my village:) She had the lightest skin with red hair and slanted blue eyes as most of the Avars around me. See these pictures and dont steal my time anymore. Are you not smart enough to deduce that Turkics in southern Caucasus/Turkey mixed with swarthy persian-origin people and took over their dark phenotype mostly? Avars in the mountains kept their 'ginger/blonde' look mostly but they also ended up mixing with lowland peoples from south in northern Caucasia. Immigrants in Turkey are mixing too. This is so simple and a scientific fact, but of course trolls wont accept this
In reality term "Avar" originated as derogatory name used by Kumyks for highlanders and mean "vagabond, bandit". Avars name themselves as Ma'arulal (from Me'er "Mountain"). Majority of Avars live in tribal republics, who constantly fought with Khunzakh nutsals. Avar heroes are Khuchbar (if you a Khunzakh Avar you should know him)- leader of Hidatl freedom fighters, who threw khan's children into fire and three jihadist imams (Ghazi-Muhammad, Hamzat-bek and Shamil), who completely exterminated Khunzakh dynasty.
I see you proud of and defend Nadir shah, who was Turco-Iranian Yermolov and launched shah-kirman (genocidal massacres) against aborigines of Daghestan.
Pure-blooded Avars are round-headed Caucasoids with robust features, who often have hooked noses. Red hair and blue eyes are result of genetic mutation and isolation, not of foreign (Aryan or Turkic) admixture. Majority of Avars have dark hair and eyes and never mixed with foreigners and slaves.

[Hajimurad]

Pff so bored, you are not even worth replying, yet another flurry troll in charge of trying to defute Turkicness of Avars as if this is possible. My time is too precious to waste writing to a supposed Caucasian(!) whose origin is unclear

Depiction of Avars in Dagestan
94094

Avar hero Samil
94095

Nordicist Qajar woman do you know Imam Shamil dyed his beard with henna? And he never been blue-eyed.
Look at the two peoples. One of them is Avar, second is Chechen 94105

[Hajimurad]

This man is an author of Pannonian origin of Caucasian Avars and about Nordic-looking "Hunnic Avars of Khunzakh". I think this man is your teacher.
94108
Does he look Hunnish?:D

[Joso]

Dinaro-alpine sort of look. Looks European

[Nakhchi]

Off-topic question, never talked to an Avar online so i was wondering what does the name "Burtiyal" mean? Avars usually call Chechens Burtiyal.

[Hajimurad]

Off-topic question, never talked to an Avar online so i was wondering what does the name "Burtiyal" mean? Avars usually call Chechens Burtiyal.

Probably closest word to Burtiyal is an burtina which means burka coat.

[Root]

Swadesh list of Northeast Caucasian languages that are closely related to each other




https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/4/4a/Northeast_Caucasus_languages_map_en.svg/800px-Northeast_Caucasus_languages_map_en.svg.png


https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/1/11/Northeast_Caucasus_languages_map_ru.svg/800px-Northeast_Caucasus_languages_map_ru.svg.png

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3c/Northeast_Caucasian_Splits.png





https://image.ibb.co/nF0VPf/1.png

https://image.ibb.co/cwBtc0/2.png

https://image.ibb.co/jK5x4f/3.png

https://image.ibb.co/iRqVPf/4.png

https://image.ibb.co/fqZqPf/5.png

https://image.ibb.co/gGHMVL/6.png

https://image.ibb.co/fck8AL/7.png

https://image.ibb.co/fcWRx0/8.png

[Nanushka]

'wishful thinking'

Low-level jihadist troll with skin-deep info from russian masters, Qajar is your mother. I am NOT a nordicist and I have never been, I dont need it and everybody in TA knows it. I am only after the truth, I only tell the truth with evidence and I will fight for it till the end. You try to connect everything to Islam and you are of persian origin, if you idiotically claim that Avars mostly have dark hair etc then it is you who is relatives of arabs and persians or Azeris. Blood talks and shows up here. Most of my family and my people are like me, blonde or ginger and even my DNA test results show to which peoples I am close to. You dont not even understand what you read, who is defending Nadir Shah, his behaviour was typical for Turkics and you, an Avarized whatever, cannot simply accept it. Magarul is not even an ethnic name and our ethnic name is Avar, just AVAR, you can call yourself wahabi or persian if you dont like it, who cares, but Avar is the name that connects us (not you) to our glorious past, thats all!

Samil was depicted always in the same way, I didnt paint that picture and in the books he was told to be 2m long with red hair and light eyes, your wish and bullshitting will not change the truth. The other pic tells everything about Avars anyway! Even the way he wrapped the white cloth around his calpac is from a very ancient tradition coming from warrior Alps, and Alp is the concept belongs to Avars and Turkic peoples only. It shows 'ready to sacrify oneself in the war for the land and Kagan' and Samil with his naips survived this tradition. There are soo many traditions like this that show Turkic connection, even the motifs on Avar rugs. Our whole culture reflect this as I told earlier. Dont you dare to challenge me with your Avar (!) knowledge because you may be living there but it doesnt mean that you are genuine. I am the genuine Avar girl whose family came to Istanbul hundred year ago and who have been objectively researching about her roots. Before Avars were Scythians (Kimmers) there, so this is actually a very consistent line interrupted with some persian intervention, thats all, deal with it

My autosomal DNA results, like all other Avars (I am member to an Avar project), connect me to northern India for our (not yours) ancestors lived there as White Huns as well as to Caucasia and Turkiye along with northern Europe like Scandinavia and British Isles. Poland and eastern europe is always there too. My mt-DNA shows my connection to euopeans like Bulgars, Macedonians, Germans and Swedish. Avars vanished among Slavs, Germanics and some other europeans, so this is very normal and expected

You can only fool europeans and rabid anti-Turks here with your shittalking and twistings but you are in front of a noble and knowledgeable Avar woman, oh to be precise, not only Avar but also Amazon, recalling my foremothers. I never give up and give in, till death, and you should already know it if you live in that sacred land and know Avar women!

[Hajimurad]

Anti-Avar agenda from pseudo-Turkish woman who never seen any Caucasian Avar in reality
Firstly, you aue Nordicist because you constantly spread lies about blond hair and blue eyes as sign of purity and you portray pure-blooded Avars as mixed Arabs/Persians, because of their dark hair and eyes.
Secondly, For real Caucasian Avar - every mother (even of his enemy's) is saint. I never insult your mother. You proved - you not an Avar girl.
Thirdly - Nadir shan was beaten in Andalal battle by Avar tribal republics in Gunib district. Avar defending Nadir shan is like a Jew defending Hitler.
Lastly: my sources is a Derbent-nameh compiled by an Muhammad Avabi Aktashi (Kumyk from Endirey) and Paradise under sabres written by Muhammad Tahir al-Karakhi (secretary of Imam Shamil). Your sources is a racist bullshit about Kimmerians (Sandakshatra, Teushpa - no Avar or Turkic carried that names), Scythians (explain why Pre-Turkic inhabitants of Chinese Turkestan - Tocharians and Khotans - speak Indo-European languages?) and Huns (Look at Chuvash and Caucasian Avar language - if Pannonians and Caucasians are one people, then why Avars and Chuvash doesn't understand each other?).


My autosomal DNA results, like all other Avars (I am member to an Avar project), connect me to northern India for our (not yours) ancestors lived there as White Huns
From northern India came Gypsies which numbers up to million in Turkey. I don't have connection with them.


as well as to Caucasia and Turkiye along with northern Europe like Scandinavia and British Isles. Poland and eastern europe is always there too. My mt-DNA shows my connection to euopeans like Bulgars, Macedonians, Germans and Swedish. Avars vanished among Slavs, Germanics and some other europeans, so this is very normal and expected
Millions of Turks in Western and North-West Anatolia descended from Islamized Europeans. Your mtDNA show your descent from these Europeans. I'm, being a native Caucasian Avar, related to other Caucasians (Chechens, Ingush, Darghins, Circassians).
Thanks for this information - you is proven to be Turkicized Indo-European without a drop a Caucasian blood.

[Nanushka]

Firstly, you aue Nordicist because you constantly spread lies about blond hair and blue eyes as sign of purity and you portray pure-blooded Avars as mixed Arabs/Persians, because of their dark hair and eyes.
Secondly, For real Caucasian Avar - every mother (even of his enemy's) is saint. I never insult your mother. You proved - you not an Avar girl.

Why are you crying troll? So is it the nature of an Avar man to attack ignorantly and hatefully on another Avar then when discussing about origin? Actually THAT is not an Avar behaviour but of wahabi who hate independent women as ordered by fake religion! No Avar man that I know would ever behave like this, never. You try to insult me, so I can insult your whole family in return with no mercy, you deserve it! Next time you tell me that I am not an Avar girl, you will talk to Loki, not to me! I am an Avar woman, tough and noble, not an Avarized something, keep it in your stupid mind and keep away from me! Oh, btw, and the Nordicists can claim to be Avar, or Hun, because all the evidence show this way, not the other way around


Your sources is a racist bullshit about Kimmerians (Sandakshatra, Teushpa - no Avar or Turkic carried that names), Scythians (explain why Pre-Turkic inhabitants of Chinese Turkestan - Tocharians and Khotans - speak Indo-European languages?) and Huns (Look at Chuvash and Caucasian Avar language - if Pannonians and Caucasians are one people, then why Avars and Chuvash doesn't understand each other?).

From northern India came Gypsies which numbers up to million in Turkey. I don't have connection with them.

Ahaha dont give me that notorious, laughable ignorant piece of shit, even pashtun-persians who hate Turks here know who gypsies are, lolol. Imo trolls should study better and learn more from their masters to disguise their identity and illiteracy better, you should at least know that 'gypsies' came from southern parts of India, while north belongs to Central Asian steppes more and nobility that ruled over Indians came from that region. Read and learn about the Brahmins in caste system next time before humiliating yourself

And, who is saying that Tocharians talked indo-european language? Let me guess, hmm, 'indo-european' westerners and russians, and their pathetic believers. There is NO evidence about this claim and some academicians (!) in charge just assert it as if it is valid. However, it is true that language is a living element of culture and is subject to change according to the geography and time span of the dominance of the peoples ruled in a certain land. Without accepting it, you cant work on the etymology of the lexicon and make meaningful deducing. That is how I am working on Avar language and it is certain that there is a sound Turkic layer within, I am working with academicians and I know how to approach to this matter. Noone can claim that Scythian and Kimmerian names werent Turkic, how would you know that, for gods sake. Alp Er Tunga is one of the oldest known Turkic sagus (sagu is a literary narrative like a poem about tragic events) and he was a Scythian ruler. Alp, Er, Tunga, Tomris, Tuşba, Bige are all Scythian names that live among Turkics today, just like Ural and Altay. As I replied to another illitrate befoer, this is collective memory and Turkics like me never forget their roots. So dont talk about the things you are not even aware of


Millions of Turks in Western and North-West Anatolia descended from Islamized Europeans. Your mtDNA show your descent from these Europeans. I'm, being a native Caucasian Avar, related to other Caucasians (Chechens, Ingush, Darghins, Circassians).
Thanks for this information - you is proven to be Turkicized Indo-European without a drop a Caucasian blood.

Yes, the real face of a russian troll now shows its real deliberate face with cliche info (!) by 'indo-european' imposition:) As I said, you re not worth replying and this is our last talk. I am again replying for the sake of others. Anatolian Turks never descended from islamized europeans, lol, what kind of a delusion is this? That is a negligible figure even if there is some. On the other hand, many Turkmens and Yoruks have been kurdified and arabized in large amounts because of filthy operations and massacres towards Turks by Ottomans after the takeover of Caliphate in 1517. This process is still going on in Turkey, and the number of ethnic Turks is falling rapidly because their low birth-rate while the others are reproducing like rabbits, and believe me, they love to mix with Turkish people

I will be sharing some of GEDmatch results of mine and some other Avars and it will be clear who is real northern Caucasian and who is not

[Hajimurad]

Why are you crying troll? So is it the nature of an Avar man to attack ignorantly and hatefully on another Avar then when discussing about origin? Actually THAT is not an Avar behaviour but of wahabi who hate independent women as ordered by fake religion! No Avar man that I know would ever behave like this, never. You try to insult me, so I can insult your whole family in return with no mercy, you deserve it! Next time you tell me that I am not an Avar girl, you will talk to Loki, not to me! I am an Avar woman, tough and noble, not an Avarized something, keep it in your stupid mind and keep away from me! Oh, btw, and the Nordicists can claim to be Avar, or Hun, because all the evidence show this way, not the other way around



Ahaha dont give me that notorious, laughable ignorant piece of shit, even pashtun-persians who hate Turks here know who gypsies are, lolol. Imo trolls should study better and learn more from their masters to disguise their identity and illiteracy better, you should at least know that 'gypsies' came from southern parts of India, while north belongs to Central Asian steppes more and nobility that ruled over Indians came from that region. Read and learn about the Brahmins in caste system next time before humiliating yourself

And, who is saying that Tocharians talked indo-european language? Let me guess, hmm, 'indo-european' westerners and russians, and their pathetic believers. There is NO evidence about this claim and some academicians (!) in charge just assert it as if it is valid. However, it is true that language is a living element of culture and is subject to change according to the geography and time span of the dominance of the peoples ruled in a certain land. Without accepting it, you cant work on the etymology of the lexicon and make meaningful deducing. That is how I am working on Avar language and it is certain that there is a sound Turkic layer within, I am working with academicians and I know how to approach to this matter. Noone can claim that Scythian and Kimmerian names werent Turkic, how would you know that, for gods sake. Alp Er Tunga is one of the oldest known Turkic sagus (sagu is a literary narrative like a poem about tragic events) and he was a Scythian ruler. Alp, Er, Tunga, Tomris, Tuşba, Bige are all Scythian names that live among Turkics today, just like Ural and Altay. As I replied to another illitrate befoer, this is collective memory and Turkics like me never forget their roots. So dont talk about the things you are not even aware of



Yes, the real face of a russian troll now shows its real deliberate face with cliche info (!) by 'indo-european' imposition:) As I said, you re not worth replying and this is our last talk. I am again replying for the sake of others. Anatolian Turks never descended from islamized europeans, lol, what kind of a delusion is this? That is a negligible figure even if there is some. On the other hand, many Turkmens and Yoruks have been kurdified and arabized in large amounts because of filthy operations and massacres towards Turks by Ottomans after the takeover of Caliphate in 1517. This process is still going on in Turkey, and the number of ethnic Turks is falling rapidly because their low birth-rate while the others are reproducing like rabbits, and believe me, they love to mix with Turkish people

I will be sharing some of GEDmatch results of mine and some other Avars and it will be clear who is real northern Caucasian and who is not
I don't care about Tocharians, Scythians and other dead peoples without heir. The only thing I know - these people doesn't related to Caucasian Avars. I respect academician scientists who explored hundreds archeological sites and studied thousands of manuscripts, but not Nazis like you who create fake theories based solely on their emotions. Alp Er Tonga is a mythical person never existed in reality and based on Avestan Frangrasyan (Afrasiab).Orkhon Turkic and Uyghur inscriptions and legends of Non-Muslim Turkics (Yakut, Tuvans, Chuvash) didn't mention him.
You may call me a russian troll but you can't hide the truth :cool:. I agree to you only one case - Kurds have more Turkic ancestry (many Kurdish tribes bore names like Afshar or Doger) than city-dwellers of West Turkey, whose ancestors speak languages other than Turkish and didn't have tribal structure.
About Genetics - genetic research shown huge difference between Hungarians, Pannonian Avars (skeletal remains) and Caucasian Avars. Pannonian Avars and Magyars bore N1, R1a and R1b Y-DNA haplogroups while Caucasian Avars bore J1 and G2 haplogroups.
After these researches only insane people can claim Pannonian origin of Caucasians.
Real Caucasian Avars begin descend from mountains to plain only in XVI-XVII centuries, when highlanders drew out Kumyks from Salatau (in Avar language Naqhbak') to Endirey. Old Avar villages in plains date from this period. In the same time Avars colonized Jar-Belokany (Ch'ar-Bilkan in Avar language) territory in North-West Azerbaijan. Second wave of Avar migration begin in Soviet period. After Stalinist deportations mountain Avars and Darghins were forcefully settled on vacated eastern Chechen republic, but after Khrushchev restored Chechens on their land, Avars and Darghins were again resettled to plains (Avars in Khasavyurt and Kizilyurt districts, Darghins - in Kayakent and Izberbash). Thus Avars became majority in Kizilyurt and one of main groups in Khasavyurt (along with Kumyks and Chechens). Pannonian Avars are used by Avar nationalists against Kumyk nationalists who claim plain as theirs.

[Nanushka]

^ All the info you give about history, etymology and genetics is so shallow and twisted, only the recent events you tell about what happened to Avars, how they relocated and mixed with lowlanders etc is trustable because that is all you have. So keep quite firmly anymore and see the results of a real Avar girl, or Magarulay, if you please:

MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results

# Population Percent

1 Caucasian 42.53
2 Steppe 25.44
3 Indian 12.01
4 Neolithic 9.12
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.03
6 Amerindian 2.09
7 Siberian 1.25
8 NearEast 1.21
9 Oceanic 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) 5.34
2 Lak (Dagestan) 6.7
3 Avar (Dagestan) 6.79
4 Avar (Dagestan_Gergebil) 6.79
5 Tabasaran (Dagestan) 6.83
6 Dargin (Urkarah) 7.17
7 Kumyk (Stalskoe) 7.45
8 Lezgin (Dagestan) 7.77
9 Avar (Dagestan_Shangoda) 9.65
10 Kabardin (Kabardino-Balkaria) 10.86
11 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 10.89
12 Circassian (Circassia) 11.42
13 Kumyk (Dagestan) 12.39
14 Chechen (Chechnya) 12.55
15 Ossetian (North_Ossetia) 12.94
16 Azerbaijani_Khachmaz (Azerbaijan_Khachmaz) 13.08
17 Azerbaijani (Azerbaijan) 14.06
18 Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) 14.24
19 Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) 14.55
20 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 14.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 96.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.5% Basque (France) @ 4.95
2 96.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 5.06
3 96.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.8% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 5.1
4 97.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 2.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.11
5 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Spanish (Aragon) @ 5.14
6 92.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7.2% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 5.18
7 96.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.2% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 5.18
8 95.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.7% Jew (Algeria) @ 5.19
9 95.1% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.9% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 5.2
10 95.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.8% Jew (Turkey) @ 5.21
11 93.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 6.7% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 5.21
12 95.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.4% Jew (Italian) @ 5.22
13 91.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 8.7% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 5.23
14 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Italian (Bergamo) @ 5.23
15 95.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.5% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 5.23
16 95.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.2% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 5.23
17 95.4% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.6% Greek (Athens) @ 5.24
18 93% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 5.24
19 84.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 15.3% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 5.25
20 96.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.7% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 5.26

and the mixed mode is so meaningful considering all Avar and other Turkic movements, like in Basque region, northern Spain and rest of europe including Khazars who later on partially turned into Ashkenazim. We are all the same

[Synapsid]

Said Turkish woman, who never been in Daghestan and forget language of ancestors. If you an Avar - prove that.
About Huns. Khunzakh never been connected to Huns. When Arabs came to Daghestan, it's was called Khumzakh (mispronounced in Arabic as Khumraj, because ra and za letters and those of kha and jim are similar in Arabic alphabet). Rulers of Sarir traced their descent from Bahram Chubin (Persian general) and bore Zoroastrian and Nestorian names.
You called me misguided, but I'm speak my native tongue (of Caucasian family) and practise Islam, but you assimilated into mainstream Turkish Europeanized society and adhere to Tengriism (copy of European Neo-Paganism with Turkic names) .

Interesting. How strong is Persian Culture in Dagestan.

[Nanushka]

Dodecad K7b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 West_Asian 47.39
2 Atlantic_Baltic 31.21
3 Southern 14.38
4 Siberian 3.87
5 South_Asian 3.08
6 African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 9.27
2 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 9.54
3 Adygei (HGDP) 9.94
4 Lezgins (Behar) 10.41
5 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 10.8
6 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 11.6
7 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 16.76
8 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 18.55
9 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 19.21
10 Turks (Behar) 20
11 Turkish (Dodecad) 20.67
12 Iranian (Dodecad) 22.68
13 Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) 23.85
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 23.87
15 Kurd (Dodecad) 24.31
16 Iranians (Behar) 25.34
17 Georgians (Behar) 26.44
18 Armenians (Behar) 28.07
19 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 28.45
20 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 28.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 85.2% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.47
2 86.9% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.1% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.51
3 87% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.54
4 84.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.7% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.61
5 85.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.7% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.79
6 84.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.85
7 84.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.86
8 86.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.7% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.89
9 86.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.7% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.89
10 85.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.4% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.92
11 86% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.96
12 85.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.2% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.96
13 76.8% Lezgins (Behar) + 23.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.97
14 85.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.4% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.97
15 85.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.3% British (Dodecad) @ 2.97
16 85.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.2% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.98
17 85.9% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.98
18 85.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.3% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.99
19 85.4% Lezgins (Behar) + 14.6% Pais_Vasco (1000Genomes) @ 3.02
20 86.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 3.02

I have shared this before. Whenever there is no Avar samples, I always match with other northern Caucasians in my first populations, and Kumyks always comes first, naturally

[Hajimurad]

Interesting. How strong is Persian Culture in Dagestan.

Daghestani rulers before Khazar invasion were vassals of Sassanid empire. Rulers of Sarir bore names like Abu Khusrau (Persian) or Bukhtishu (Syriac). According to legend, when Yezdigerd III fled from Muslims, he gave his golden throne to descendants of Bahram Chubin, who founded kingdom with title sahib as-sarir (guardian of throne). Last royal dynasty of Caucasian Albania were Mihranids (descendants of Chubin). Probably kings of Sarir descended from them. About Persian influence - We call our imams as dibir which derived from Persian dabir "scribe".

[Synapsid]

Daghestani rulers before Khazar invasion were vassals of Sassanid empire. Rulers of Sarir bore names like Abu Khusrau (Persian) or Bukhtishu (Syriac). According to legend, when Yezdigerd III fled from Muslims, he gave his golden throne to descendants of Bahram Chubin, who founded kingdom with title sahib as-sarir (guardian of throne). Last royal dynasty of Caucasian Albania were Mihranids (descendants of Chubin). Probably kings of Sarir descended from them. About Persian influence - We call our imams as dibir which derived from Persian dabir "scribe".

Is Persian influence stronger than Turkish?

[Hajimurad]

^ All the info you give about history, etymology and genetics is so shallow and twisted, only the recent events you tell about what happened to Avars, how they relocated and mixed with lowlanders etc is trustable because that is all you have. So keep quite firmly anymore and see the results of a real Avar girl, or Magarulay, if you please:

MDLP K16 Modern Oracle results

# Population Percent

1 Caucasian 42.53
2 Steppe 25.44
3 Indian 12.01
4 Neolithic 9.12
5 NorthEastEuropean 6.03
6 Amerindian 2.09
7 Siberian 1.25
8 NearEast 1.21
9 Oceanic 0.32

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) 5.34
2 Lak (Dagestan) 6.7
3 Avar (Dagestan) 6.79
4 Avar (Dagestan_Gergebil) 6.79
5 Tabasaran (Dagestan) 6.83
6 Dargin (Urkarah) 7.17
7 Kumyk (Stalskoe) 7.45
8 Lezgin (Dagestan) 7.77
9 Avar (Dagestan_Shangoda) 9.65
10 Kabardin (Kabardino-Balkaria) 10.86
11 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 10.89
12 Circassian (Circassia) 11.42
13 Kumyk (Dagestan) 12.39
14 Chechen (Chechnya) 12.55
15 Ossetian (North_Ossetia) 12.94
16 Azerbaijani_Khachmaz (Azerbaijan_Khachmaz) 13.08
17 Azerbaijani (Azerbaijan) 14.06
18 Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) 14.24
19 Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) 14.55
20 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 14.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 96.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.5% Basque (France) @ 4.95
2 96.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 5.06
3 96.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.8% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 5.1
4 97.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 2.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.11
5 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Spanish (Aragon) @ 5.14
6 92.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7.2% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 5.18
7 96.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.2% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 5.18
8 95.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.7% Jew (Algeria) @ 5.19
9 95.1% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.9% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 5.2
10 95.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.8% Jew (Turkey) @ 5.21
11 93.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 6.7% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 5.21
12 95.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.4% Jew (Italian) @ 5.22
13 91.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 8.7% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 5.23
14 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Italian (Bergamo) @ 5.23
15 95.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.5% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 5.23
16 95.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.2% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 5.23
17 95.4% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.6% Greek (Athens) @ 5.24
18 93% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 5.24
19 84.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 15.3% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 5.25
20 96.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.7% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 5.26

and the mixed mode is so meaningful considering all Avar and other Turkic movements, like in Basque region, northern Spain and rest of europe including Khazars who later on partially turned into Ashkenazim. We are all the same

I don't see any relation to Magyars , Kazan Tatars of Chuvash - peoples who were related to long-extinct Pannonian Avars. You match with ancient aboriginals of Caucasus (Avar, Chechen, Lak etc.) and with Kumyks (many of whom derived from assimilated Caucasians, especially Chechens and Darghins). Also you look as mixed with Southern Europeans (Spanish, Italian, Greek and Sephardi Jews), majority of whom derived from Neolithic farmers from Middle East. Nothing common to Turkics!
Very funny your result close to Sephardi Jews who have nothing common to Ashkenazis :D and who derived either from Roman-era Jewish captives or from Phoenician colonists in Iberia.
Khazar myth of Ashkenazi origin is a pure crap. Majority of Ashkenazis descended from few German Jewish individuals who survived medieval massacres during Crusades or Black Death and escaped to Poland. Thence Ashkenazis through inbreeding has numerous genetic diseases and because of this they are depigmented. Jews in Germany established during Roman empire (many rabbinical families came from Rome). Crania from Khazar graves display Turanid traits while Ashkenazis racially are mainly Mediterranids (similar to Italians) or Orientalids (like Arabs). This is real history.

[Hajimurad]

Is Persian influence stronger than Turkish?

No. From Persians (Tat of Shirvan) Avars take cultural terminology. From Turkics (Kipchaks-Kumyks) we take political and military terminology.

[Synapsid]

No. From Persians (Tat of Shirvan) Avars take cultural terminology. From Turkics (Kipchaks-Kumyks) we take political and military terminology.

I was talking to an Armenian guy on TA, he says that there is little Persian Culture in Caucasus Culture, particularly Armenians culture, which I highly doubt. Is it true?

[Nanushka]

I don't see any relation to Magyars , Kazan Tatars of Chuvash - peoples who were related to long-extinct Pannonian Avars. You match with ancient aboriginals of Caucasus (Avar, Chechen, Lak etc.) and with Kumyks (many of whom derived from assimilated Caucasians, especially Chechens and Darghins). Also you look as mixed with Southern Europeans (Spanish, Italian, Greek and Sephardi Jews), majority of whom derived from Neolithic farmers from Middle East. Nothing common to Turkics!
Very funny your result close to Sephardi Jews who have nothing common to Ashkenazis :D and who derived either from Roman-era Jewish captives or from Phoenician colonists in Iberia.
Khazar myth of Ashkenazi origin is a pure crap. Majority of Ashkenazis descended from few German Jewish individuals who survived medieval massacres during Crusades or Black Death and escaped to Poland. Thence Ashkenazis through inbreeding has numerous genetic diseases and because of this they are depigmented. Jews in Germany established during Roman empire (many rabbinical families came from Rome). Crania from Khazar graves display Turanid traits while Ashkenazis racially are mainly Mediterranids (similar to Italians) or Orientalids (like Arabs). This is real history.

Ahahaha I really wonder how you arrived at the conclusion of Sephardi Jews as there is no clue of it here :D Stupid lowlander, I will almost like your ignorance and feel sorry for your low comprehension about truth. My results are closest to Basque and northern Spain as Avars and Alans along with other Hunnics settled in that region, and Andalucia. Also, this is only one calculator and there are others that connect me to Magyars. I didnt share all my results yet! Dream on, as it is free, but I am really fed up with wasting my time here, everybody who reads the thread has already understood your bias and why you are in charge: )) go on bullshitting but dont forget to share your own results, if your dare! Whatever you write is fake, just like your religion, according to your real persian roots. Goodbye

[Hajimurad]

Ahahaha I really wonder how you arrived at the conclusion of Sephardi Jews as there is no clue of it here :D Stupid lowlander, I will almost like your ignorance and feel sorry for your low comprehension about truth. My results are closest to Basque and northern Spain as Avars and Alans along with other Hunnics settled in that region, and Andalucia. Also, this is only one calculator and there are others that connect me to Magyars. I didnt share all my results yet! Dream on, as it is free, but I am really fed up with wasting my time here, everybody who reads the thread has already understood your bias and why you are in charge: )) go on bullshitting but dont forget to share your own results, if your dare! Whatever you write is fake, just like your religion, according to your real persian roots. Goodbye

Nice. Woman with Sephardi Donme and European slave ancestors call me, a 100% Avar from Caucasus, as Persian. I don't need any research because I know my genealogy from paternal (Salatau/Gumbet) and maternal (Khunzakh/Batlaich) sides. I'm pure-blooded Avar from both sides. My ancestors had Uzden status and never gave their daughters to descendants of slaves. In contrary you have not only Jewish but European slave ancestors from Ottoman slave trade (Spaniards, Italians and Greeks came to Ottoman hands chiefly as slaves, unlike Slavs and Albanians). If your grandmother is Khunzakh Avar then she is a shameful woman without honor who married a slave descendant or Jew (both groups are stigmatized by Avars). You may fool Turks and European Nazis but you can't fool a real Avar.
About Basques - they lived in Spain looooong before Hunns, who never settled in Spain (they were stopped in Northern France in Catalaun battle). You definitely ignorant.

[fortress europe]

Pontid + Alpinid

[Nakhchi]

Dodecad K7b Oracle results:

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent

1 West_Asian 47.39
2 Atlantic_Baltic 31.21
3 Southern 14.38
4 Siberian 3.87
5 South_Asian 3.08
6 African 0.07

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Kumyks (Yunusbayev) 9.27
2 Chechens (Yunusbayev) 9.54
3 Adygei (HGDP) 9.94
4 Lezgins (Behar) 10.41
5 Balkars (Yunusbayev) 10.8
6 North_Ossetians (Yunusbayev) 11.6
7 Tajiks (Yunusbayev) 16.76
8 Nogais (Yunusbayev) 18.55
9 Turkmens (Yunusbayev) 19.21
10 Turks (Behar) 20
11 Turkish (Dodecad) 20.67
12 Iranian (Dodecad) 22.68
13 Abhkasians (Yunusbayev) 23.85
14 Kurds (Yunusbayev) 23.87
15 Kurd (Dodecad) 24.31
16 Iranians (Behar) 25.34
17 Georgians (Behar) 26.44
18 Armenians (Behar) 28.07
19 Uzbekistan_Jews (Behar) 28.45
20 Armenians_15 (Yunusbayev) 28.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 85.2% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.8% Russian (HGDP) @ 2.47
2 86.9% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.1% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 2.51
3 87% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 2.54
4 84.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.7% Mordovians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.61
5 85.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.7% Russian_B (Behar) @ 2.79
6 84.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.2% Mixed_Slav (Dodecad) @ 2.85
7 84.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 15.4% Ukranians (Yunusbayev) @ 2.86
8 86.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.7% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 2.89
9 86.3% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.7% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 2.89
10 85.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.4% Polish (Dodecad) @ 2.92
11 86% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14% Belorussian (Behar) @ 2.96
12 85.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.2% Orcadian (HGDP) @ 2.96
13 76.8% Lezgins (Behar) + 23.2% Romanians (Behar) @ 2.97
14 85.6% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.4% Argyll (1000Genomes) @ 2.97
15 85.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.3% British (Dodecad) @ 2.97
16 85.8% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.2% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 2.98
17 85.9% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.1% Orkney (1000Genomes) @ 2.98
18 85.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 14.3% Irish (Dodecad) @ 2.99
19 85.4% Lezgins (Behar) + 14.6% Pais_Vasco (1000Genomes) @ 3.02
20 86.7% Chechens (Yunusbayev) + 13.3% Lithuanian (Dodecad) @ 3.02

I have shared this before. Whenever there is no Avar samples, I always match with other northern Caucasians in my first populations, and Kumyks always comes first, naturally

Regarding the Kumyks they are almost all native Caucasian in genetics :,) there is a reason why they are so close to Chechens. Two of the biggest components of the Kumyks (Guens and Salauzden) were of Chechen origin. So many of the Kumyks are of native Caucasian origin but were assimilated by a Turkic class ( Tumens).

[Hajimurad]

Regarding the Kumyks they are almost all native Caucasian in genetics :,) there is a reason why they are so close to Chechens. Two of the biggest components of the Kumyks (Guens and Salauzden) were of Chechen origin. So many of the Kumyks are of native Caucasian origin but were assimilated by a Turkic class ( Tumens).

Guens (descendants of Chechen Gunoy taypa), Sala-uzden (they came from Andi through Gumbet, although Shikhaliyev consider them of Vashandaroy taypa) and Tumen (descendants of Kipchaks) are found only among Kumyks of Endirey, Kostek and Aksay. Kumyk subgroup with most Vaynakh ancestry are Boragan (Braguny) Kumyks (of Crimean Tatar, Kabardinian and Orsthoy/Karabulak ancestry), who live in Chechen republic and Northern Ossetia. Other groups of Kumyks, who live in Daghestan are mixture of Khazar, Darghin, Avar and Terekene (from Azerbaijan) ancestry.

[Turul Karom]

I don't see any relation to Magyars , Kazan Tatars of Chuvash - peoples who were related to long-extinct Pannonian Avars. You match with ancient aboriginals of Caucasus (Avar, Chechen, Lak etc.) and with Kumyks (many of whom derived from assimilated Caucasians, especially Chechens and Darghins). Also you look as mixed with Southern Europeans (Spanish, Italian, Greek and Sephardi Jews), majority of whom derived from Neolithic farmers from Middle East. Nothing common to Turkics!
Very funny your result close to Sephardi Jews who have nothing common to Ashkenazis :D and who derived either from Roman-era Jewish captives or from Phoenician colonists in Iberia.
Khazar myth of Ashkenazi origin is a pure crap. Majority of Ashkenazis descended from few German Jewish individuals who survived medieval massacres during Crusades or Black Death and escaped to Poland. Thence Ashkenazis through inbreeding has numerous genetic diseases and because of this they are depigmented. Jews in Germany established during Roman empire (many rabbinical families came from Rome). Crania from Khazar graves display Turanid traits while Ashkenazis racially are mainly Mediterranids (similar to Italians) or Orientalids (like Arabs). This is real history.

I have no idea where you are getting this Jewish fixation from. From the four (lower level matches) in her mixed mode populations? Buusra matches more Romance populations (Spanish, Fench Italian) than Semitic (Jewish, Arab) and her Avar (Dagestan Khunzakh) is always over 95%. On other calculators without Avar she scores other Turkic populations as number 1 predictions and closest population. She has also matched universally with Iron Age and Bronze Age Hungarian populations in others.

You go on some debate point or lecture about Jewish genetic theory when it has nothing to do with these results. I'm being objective and listening to your statements but in light of her several DNA results her own biological legacy is corroborated with her ancestral background. She could have been born in Japan at this point and it would be impossible to deny she is biologically Avar with meta ethnicity of Turkic. Again, as I've said before, it makes no sense to "Turkicize" if she could as easily claim Tatar or some other population, because she could take the easy way and just that. Instead she is contesting with support of the biological and historical reality the Turkic connections found in Avars, of which she is not an individual exception.

Also not all Panonian Avars were simply in "Panonia", which is why there was the geographic abbreviation attached to them. Just like Magyars who remained behind in Asia who did not participate in the honfoglalás, yet were annihilated and absorbed into the armies of the Mongol hordes, steppe peoples left pockets of tribespeople all over Eurasia.

[Turul Karom]

"...as well as the more numerous Yakuts, who retreated from the Mongols as far northeastward as possible. They drove a huge wedge into the sparse Tungus tribal groups of reindeer-breeders and hunters, forcing them farther northeast, east, and southeast. The South Tungus peoples in the lower Amur basin, along the Ussuri river, and in Manchuria do not seem to have been dislocated. Very few Mongols are found west of Mongolia proper: the Moḡol in northwest Afghanistan, the Sart-Qalmyq in the Tien-Shan mountains near Lake Issiq-Köl, and traces of a Mongol residue in Daghestan. The Qalmyqs (ca. 100,000) in the steppes between the Don and Volga south of Volgograd acquired their habitat in 1632, after seceding from the Dzungarian realm."

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/altaic-the-altaic-peoples-and-languages-are-distributed-around-45-north-latitude-from-eastern-europe-to-the-pacific-ocean

Other supporters of Avar-Turkic awareness include PhD. Alikber Alikberov, in "Epokha klassicheskogo islama na Kavkaze, Moskow, 2003, p. 172".

[Hajimurad]

I have no idea where you are getting this Jewish fixation from. From the four (lower level matches) in her mixed mode populations? Buusra matches more Romance populations (Spanish, Fench Italian) than Semitic (Jewish, Arab) and her Avar (Dagestan Khunzakh) is always over 95%. On other calculators without Avar she scores other Turkic populations as number 1 predictions and closest population. She has also matched universally with Iron Age and Bronze Age Hungarian populations in others.

You go on some debate point or lecture about Jewish genetic theory when it has nothing to do with these results. I'm being objective and listening to your statements but in light of her several DNA results her own biological legacy is corroborated with her ancestral background. She could have been born in Japan at this point and it would be impossible to deny she is biologically Avar with meta ethnicity of Turkic. Again, as I've said before, it makes no sense to "Turkicize" if she could as easily claim Tatar or some other population, because she could take the easy way and just that. Instead she is contesting with support of the biological and historical reality the Turkic connections found in Avars, of which she is not an individual exception.

Also not all Panonian Avars were simply in "Panonia", which is why there was the geographic abbreviation attached to them. Just like Magyars who remained behind in Asia who did not participate in the honfoglalás, yet were annihilated and absorbed into the armies of the Mongol hordes, steppe peoples left pockets of tribespeople all over Eurasia.
Which Turkic connection you found in her results? She is close to Chechens, Southern Europeans and Sephardi Jews.
Do you know Southern Europeans and aboriginal Caucasians aren't descendants of Huns? We don't speak Chuvash or Ugrian language. We have Turkic influence from Khazars, living in plains, and Kipchaks, who replaced them. Khazars were formed from three Bulgar-speaking tribes (Barsils, Sabir and Onogurs) and Kokturk ruling Ashina dynasty. Theory of Pannonian origin of Caucasian Avars was created by Georgian monks in order to demonize Muslim Avars who taken Ereti (Jaro-Belokany) from them. This theory was reanimated by Avar nationalists in 1990th to counter Kumyk nationalists. The latter see themselves as descendants of Khazars and claim Avars as invaders, while former Pannonian Avar hypothesis. This is like Romanian-Hungarian dispute over Transylvania.

[Hajimurad]

"...as well as the more numerous Yakuts, who retreated from the Mongols as far northeastward as possible. They drove a huge wedge into the sparse Tungus tribal groups of reindeer-breeders and hunters, forcing them farther northeast, east, and southeast. The South Tungus peoples in the lower Amur basin, along the Ussuri river, and in Manchuria do not seem to have been dislocated. Very few Mongols are found west of Mongolia proper: the Moḡol in northwest Afghanistan, the Sart-Qalmyq in the Tien-Shan mountains near Lake Issiq-Köl, and traces of a Mongol residue in Daghestan. The Qalmyqs (ca. 100,000) in the steppes between the Don and Volga south of Volgograd acquired their habitat in 1632, after seceding from the Dzungarian realm."

http://www.iranicaonline.org/articles/altaic-the-altaic-peoples-and-languages-are-distributed-around-45-north-latitude-from-eastern-europe-to-the-pacific-ocean

Other supporters of Avar-Turkic awareness include PhD. Alikber Alikberov, in "Epokha klassicheskogo islama na Kavkaze, Moskow, 2003, p. 172".

Do you know Daghestan is inhabited by 20-30 different ethnicities and none of them (except Nogays, who have clans like Mangit, Nayman, Uysun etc) descend from Mongols?

[Hajimurad]

Other supporters of Avar-Turkic awareness include PhD. Alikber Alikberov, in "Epokha klassicheskogo islama na Kavkaze, Moskow, 2003, p. 172".
Alikber Alikberov is a Lezghin, who turn Ikhran (first capital of Sarir) and Filan (part of Darghin land) into Lezghin states.

[Hajimurad]

Other supporters of Avar-Turkic awareness include PhD. Alikber Alikberov, in "Epokha klassicheskogo islama na Kavkaze, Moskow, 2003, p. 172".
Alikber Alikberov is a Lezghin, who turn Ikhran (first capital of Sarir) and Filan (part of Darghit land) into Lezghin states.

[Turul Karom]

Which Turkic connection you found in her results? She is close to Chechens, Southern Europeans and Sephardi Jews.
Do you know Southern Europeans and aboriginal Caucasians aren't descendants of Huns? We don't speak Chuvash or Ugrian language. We have Turkic influence from Khazars, living in plains, and Kipchaks, who replaced them. Khazars were formed from three Bulgar-speaking tribes (Barsils, Sabir and Onogurs) and Kokturk ruling Ashina dynasty. Theory of Pannonian origin of Caucasian Avars was created by Georgian monks in order to demonize Muslim Avars who taken Ereti (Jaro-Belokany) from them. This theory was reanimated by Avar nationalists in 1990th to counter Kumyk nationalists. The latter see themselves as descendants of Khazars and claim Avars as invaders, while former Pannonian Avar hypothesis. This is like Romanian-Hungarian dispute over Transylvania.

Are we looking at the same results? I see Turkic groups in primary (where there are no Jews) and in mixed mode the % of matching are 95%+ Avar. Other results show Tatar as well. Where do you find the source about this Panonian Avar conspiracy to delegitimize Caucasian Avars by Christian monks? I would like to read it. Something specific, such as a quote or study, that I can independently read outside of TA online.

If she wants to post more calculators, that is her business to decide. But from those here her ancestral background seems apparent, and it is certainly not predominantly South European or Jewish or Arab in any regard.


Do you know Daghestan is inhabited by 20-30 different ethnicities and none of them (except Nogays, who have clans like Mangit, Nayman, Uysun etc) descend from Mongols?

The use of "Mongol" here was to describe the Avars, just like how Hungarians are called Mongolic in history and as a pejorative today. This is not meaning actual Mongolians, but historic Asiatic nomads who settled there.


Alikber Alikberov is a Lezghin, who turn Ikhran (first capital of Sarir) and Filan (part of Darghin land) into Lezghin states.

How is this relevant to my source?

[Nakhchi]

Guens (descendants of Chechen Gunoy taypa), Sala-uzden (they came from Andi through Gumbet, although Shikhaliyev consider them of Vashandaroy taypa) and Tumen (descendants of Kipchaks) are found only among Kumyks of Endirey, Kostek and Aksay. Kumyk subgroup with most Vaynakh ancestry are Boragan (Braguny) Kumyks (of Crimean Tatar, Kabardinian and Orsthoy/Karabulak ancestry), who live in Chechen republic and Northern Ossetia. Other groups of Kumyks, who live in Daghestan are mixture of Khazar, Darghin, Avar and Terekene (from Azerbaijan) ancestry.

Yeah mixed a lot with native Caucasians (mostly Chechens). Sala-Uzden or Saloy come mostly from the "Salavatia" area iirc, many of the villages there today have still Chechen names and were inhabited by Chechens all the way until the deportation like Dylm, Guni, Almak, Burtunay etc. Unfortunately Kumyks are trying to steal Chechen history by claiming Gueni as "Huns" and so Turkic peoples because they want to remove any presence of Chechen tribes in modern day Dagestan. Endirey itself was called "Guen-kala" by the Nogais in the 13th century so it was inhabited by native Chechen tribes for centuries.

[Hajimurad]

Yeah mixed a lot with native Caucasians (mostly Chechens). Sala-Uzden or Saloy come mostly from the "Salavatia" area iirc, many of the villages there today have still Chechen names and were inhabited by Chechens all the way until the deportation like Dylm, Guni, Almak, Burtunay etc. Unfortunately Kumyks are trying to steal Chechen history by claiming Gueni as "Huns" and so Turkic peoples because they want to remove any presence of Chechen tribes in modern day Dagestan. Endirey itself was called "Guen-kala" by the Nogais in the 13th century so it was inhabited by native Chechen tribes for centuries.

Chechens inhabited historically only Aukh, not Salatavia (Kazbek and Kizilyurt district). Avars of Salatavia came from mainly Gumbet district and expelled Turkic-speakers (Kipchaks) in XVI c. These villages you mentioned has Kumyk names and founded by Avars, who mixed with Chechen settlers from Kharachoy and Biltoy taypa. Akki Chechens of Aukh along with Karabulaks were parts of Orsthoy ("Lowland") tribe - first wave of Vaynakh settlers, settled after Tamerlan(their originated in mountain Lam-Akki on Chechen-Ingush border). But Tumens (Kipchak-Tatars) and Boragans (Crimean Tatar colonists, part of whom founded Karachay-Balkar nation) were settled earlier (XIII-XIV c) and Guens - Sala under command of Sultan-Mahmud subjugated them (XVII c). Sultan-Mahmud founded Endirey with mixed Guen-Tumen population and Sala nobility. Also former with his Kabardinian allies defeated Orsthoy leader Shikh-Murza and divided his land (Aukh and Braguny - to Endirey, Karabulak territory - to Lesser Kabarda).

[Hajimurad]

Are we looking at the same results? I see Turkic groups in primary (where there are no Jews) and in mixed mode the % of matching are 95%+ Avar. Other results show Tatar as well. Where do you find the source about this Panonian Avar conspiracy to delegitimize Caucasian Avars by Christian monks? I would like to read it. Something specific, such as a quote or study, that I can independently read outside of TA online.

If she wants to post more calculators, that is her business to decide. But from those here her ancestral background seems apparent, and it is certainly not predominantly South European or Jewish or Arab in any regard.



The use of "Mongol" here was to describe the Avars, just like how Hungarians are called Mongolic in history and as a pejorative today. This is not meaning actual Mongolians, but historic Asiatic nomads who settled there.



How is this relevant to my source?

Because many Daghestani authors are very biased when it comes to ethnicity.
Asiatic nomads never settled in mountains of Daghestan. If this is happened why we don't speak Ugrian or Bulgar Turkic language? Why we speak our Caucasian languages and look differently from Hungarians (Szekelys, Paloczi, Csangos) and Chuvash (descendants of Bulgars)? Genetically and racially we are very different. Finding of Hungarian or Turkic roots and etymologies in mountain of Daghestan is a pure pseudoscience.
This is not a conspiracy. Muslim Avars wage holy war (gazawat) against Orthodox Georgia and annexed Ereti province. Before Islamization Georgian writers (Leonti Mroveli) considered Avars as descendants of Lekan (ancestors of Daghestanis) who was brother of Kartlos (ancestor of Georgians) and Kavkasos (ancestor of Chechen-Ingush). Similar thing happened to Abkhazians. Because they were allies of Ottomans Georgian Nationalists deny their aboriginal origin and portray them as descendants of barbarian and cannibalistic Scythians.

[Nakhchi]

Chechens inhabited historically only Aukh, not Salatavia (Kazbek and Kizilyurt district). Avars of Salatavia came from mainly Gumbet district and expelled Turkic-speakers (Kipchaks) in XVI c. These villages you mentioned has Kumyk names and founded by Avars, who mixed with Chechen settlers from Kharachoy and Biltoy taypa. Akki Chechens of Aukh along with Karabulaks were parts of Orsthoy ("Lowland") tribe - first wave of Vaynakh settlers, settled after Tamerlan(their originated in mountain Lam-Akki on Chechen-Ingush border). But Tumens (Kipchak-Tatars) and Boragans (Crimean Tatar colonists, part of whom founded Karachay-Balkar nation) were settled earlier (XIII-XIV c) and Guens - Sala under command of Sultan-Mahmud subjugated them (XVII c). Sultan-Mahmud founded Endirey with mixed Guen-Tumen population and Sala nobility. Also former with his Kabardinian allies defeated Orsthoy leader Shikh-Murza and divided his land (Aukh and Braguny - to Endirey, Karabulak territory - to Lesser Kabarda).

Aukh includes Kazbek district and if those villages were founded by Avars then how come some have Chechen names? Guni is from the teip Gunoy (there are villages named Guni in Chechnya too), Dylm is reported by some to have been of Chechen origin but it has many stories of co-founding between Avars and Chechens of the Chungaroy teip (Biltoy according to others). Almak is either from a Chechen name (Almukh) or Turkic but it was classified as an Aukh society in the 1800s by Butkovsky, Also Avar Rasul Idrisov historian wrote in his book (Salavatia is my pride) that Almak resisted Timur and that the city had over 10,000-20,000 houses and that the inhabitants were Chechen. I have no idea what his source is though, also wikipedia mentions the Avar Tukkhums that are native to that village and they are of Chechen origin like Khoreichilal(Kharachoy) and Chunkurial(Chungaroy). Anyway that area might be native to both Chechens and Avars since many of the stories of founding of the villages describes an avar-chechen founder.

Aukh is not Akkhi only, Aukhoy itself means lowlander. The Akkhi moved there in the 1500s with Ushurma Okotsky and Yanbek, Karabulaks are Orstkhoii but Akkhi are not Orstkhoii. Guenis lived in Aukh far longer than Akkhi and their folklore tells of their leader Gundal moving there during the 13th century. The area of Aukh (including Kazbek) have villages named after them and even Endirey was mentioned by Nogais as "Guen-Kala" in the 1300s. Guenis accepted Sultan-Mahmud yes and they helped him defeat the pro-Russian princes (including Akkhi prince Shikh-Murza).

[Hajimurad]

Aukh includes Kazbek district and if those villages were founded by Avars then how come some have Chechen names? Guni is from the teip Gunoy (there are villages named Guni in Chechnya too), Dylm is reported by some to have been of Chechen origin but it has many stories of co-founding between Avars and Chechens of the Chungaroy teip (Biltoy according to others). Almak is either from a Chechen name (Almukh) or Turkic but it was classified as an Aukh society in the 1800s by Butkovsky, Also Avar Rasul Idrisov historian wrote in his book (Salavatia is my pride) that Almak resisted Timur and that the city had over 10,000-20,000 houses and that the inhabitants were Chechen. I have no idea what his source is though, also wikipedia mentions the Avar Tukkhums that are native to that village and they are of Chechen origin like Khoreichilal(Kharachoy) and Chunkurial(Chungaroy). Anyway that area might be native to both Chechens and Avars since many of the stories of founding of the villages describes an avar-chechen founder.

Aukh is not Akkhi only, Aukhoy itself means lowlander. The Akkhi moved there in the 1500s with Ushurma Okotsky and Yanbek, Karabulaks are Orstkhoii but Akkhi are not Orstkhoii. Guenis lived in Aukh far longer than Akkhi and their folklore tells of their leader Gundal moving there during the 13th century. The area of Aukh (including Kazbek) have villages named after them and even Endirey was mentioned by Nogais as "Guen-Kala" in the 1300s. Guenis accepted Sultan-Mahmud yes and they helped him defeat the pro-Russian princes (including Akkhi prince Shikh-Murza).

Aukh and Salatau are two different territories. Former was a Chechen land, inhabited by Akkis, while second was Avar region. You confuse these regions because under Stalin two Aukh villages (Kalinin-aul and Lenin-aul) were transferred from Aukh (renamed Novolak) to Kazbek district and repopulated by Avars from Almak.When Tamerlane came to Salatau, he deported original inhabitants of Almak to Old Chirkey (nowadays occupied by Chirkey dam). When Avars in XVI c came to Chirkey, they expelled old Almakis to fled either to Gelbakh or Erpeli (Buynaksk district), where Sala-Uzdens trace descent from these refugees (those from Gelbakh came to Endirey). Modern Almaki Avars are of mixed Avar-Chechen origin (but Chungaroy are Chechens of Andi origin from Andi village Chankho in Botlikh district). Indeed there were a many intermarriages between Avars and Chechens (many Avar clans bore names Kharachiyal or Bilit-taypa, or Chechen clans with Suli name). Both Avars (from Gumbet) and Chechens (from Lam-Akki) came to these lands in XVI c. About Sala-Uzden - they came earlier from Andi (of Vashandaroy origin) through Gumbet but became Turkic-speakers like Guens during Golden Horde.
Butkovskiy wrote about Aukh Chechens as being of Karabulak and partially Chechen (from Ichkeria) origin.

[Nakhchi]

Aukh and Salatau are two different territories. Former was a Chechen land, inhabited by Akkis, while second was Avar region. You confuse these regions because under Stalin two Aukh villages (Kalinin-aul and Lenin-aul) were transferred from Aukh (renamed Novolak) to Kazbek district and repopulated by Avars from Almak.When Tamerlane came to Salatau, he deported original inhabitants of Almak to Old Chirkey (nowadays occupied by Chirkey dam). When Avars in XVI c came to Chirkey, they expelled old Almakis to fled either to Gelbakh or Erpeli (Buynaksk district), where Sala-Uzdens trace descent from these refugees (those from Gelbakh came to Endirey). Modern Almaki Avars are of mixed Avar-Chechen origin (but Chungaroy are Chechens of Andi origin from Andi village Chankho in Botlikh district). Indeed there were a many intermarriages between Avars and Chechens (many Avar clans bore names Kharachiyal or Bilit-taypa, or Chechen clans with Suli name). Both Avars (from Gumbet) and Chechens (from Lam-Akki) came to these lands in XVI c. About Sala-Uzden - they came earlier from Andi (of Vashandaroy origin) through Gumbet but became Turkic-speakers like Guens during Golden Horde.
Butkovskiy wrote about Aukh Chechens as being of Karabulak and partially Chechen (from Ichkeria) origin.

Is not Guni in Kazbek district? its a bit further away from Almak which is almost right next to the Chechen border and next to a village called "Burtunay"( i assumed it was named after Chechens since Avars call us Burtiyal, but not sure). Guni is 100% related to the Chechen teip Gunoy which is the third biggest teip among us. About Almak you might know more than me since i dont know much about that village. Only that an Avar historian (Rasul Idrisov) who is a native Salavatian wrote that the Chechens in Almak resisted Timur and that their city was burned down. Also according to wikipedia page on Almak the village spoke Chechen in 1812(they use Rasul Idrisov as a source yet again). But since you are a Salavtian yourself you might know more about the area, im only saying what ive read online.

Chungaroy are related to Akkhi and that is genetically proven, they are all of the L3 haplogroup which Andi's dont have that i know of. Soviet Historians like Mamakaev had a fun time of assigining different Chechen teips to different nations. According to him we had several teips of georgian, avar, russian etc origin but none of that is true (usually teips of foreign origin have their nation or tribe name like tskhadaro = tsuduhar Dargin). Chungaroy were called Suli by many Chechens and it wasnt until a genetic test that they proved to everyone that they are Chechen.

Sala-Uzden came from Andi (of Vashandaroy origin)? what do you mean? Vashandaroy is a big teip in central Chechnya. Or do you mean that Sala-Uzden are not originally from Salavatia and are of Chechen origin but migrated trough Gumbet and Andi?

Aukh Chechens are a mix of every teip there is but mostly of Akkhi due to the 1550s migration. Karabulak are also very mixed and are the Chechen version of Cossacks, but they are 100% Naxchi like all of Chechens.

[Nanushka]

Are we looking at the same results? I see Turkic groups in primary (where there are no Jews) and in mixed mode the % of matching are 95%+ Avar. Other results show Tatar as well. Where do you find the source about this Panonian Avar conspiracy to delegitimize Caucasian Avars by Christian monks? I would like to read it. Something specific, such as a quote or study, that I can independently read outside of TA online.

If she wants to post more calculators, that is her business to decide. But from those here her ancestral background seems apparent, and it is certainly not predominantly South European or Jewish or Arab in any regard.



The use of "Mongol" here was to describe the Avars, just like how Hungarians are called Mongolic in history and as a pejorative today. This is not meaning actual Mongolians, but historic Asiatic nomads who settled there.



How is this relevant to my source?

He is just another troll who is in charge of trying to keep Turkics away from Northern Caucasia as well as Europe. Some 'masters' must be terribly terrified because of the truth is coming out. I dont care in the least whatever he says anymore as it is ridiculous and on purpose. Although everything is crystal clear about Avars and scientifically proven, he keeps on talking without submitting any evidence, according to his feelings and how his persian-mixed blood make him talk. Tomorrow I will be sharing the autosomal DNA test results of Sogratl Avars (my father's side) from the DNA project group that seems very close to mine and this will be the end of his bullshit. I think you can help me with the interpretations of the results:)

Haji, my grandmother was a beautiful noble from Avar Kaghanate and her family is very well-known among whole Avars, unlike your Qajar mother, and pray the god for she is from glorious Turkic side, not from mixed persians. Also, search and learn, J1 and J2 is also found in Avar graves in Hungary

Oh, and I will be sharing my own results on another thread, hopefully. It tells a lot about my origin, and I am proud of my Turkic ancestors!

[Hajimurad]

He is just another troll who is in charge of trying to keep Turkics away from Northern Caucasia as well as Europe. Some 'masters' must be terribly terrified because of the truth is coming out. I dont care in the least whatever he says anymore as it is ridiculous and on purpose. Although everything is crystal clear about Avars and scientifically proven, he keeps on talking without submitting any evidence, according to his feelings and how his persian-mixed blood make him talk. Tomorrow I will be sharing the autosomal DNA test results of Sogratl Avars (my father's side) from the DNA project group that seems very close to mine and this will be the end of his bullshit. I think you can help me with the interpretations of the results:)

Haji, my grandmother was a beautiful noble from Avar Kaghanate and her family is very well-known among whole Avars, unlike your Qajar mother, and pray the god for she is from glorious Turkic side, not from mixed persians. Also, search and learn, J1 and J2 is also found in Avar graves in Hungary

Oh, and I will be sharing my own results on another thread, hopefully. It tells a lot about my origin, and I am proud of my Turkic ancestors!

You, non-Avar woman, do you understand there are no Avars with Persian blood! Qajar is a Turkic tribe, you should proud of it, if you consider themself a Turk :D.
You spread nonsence and lies about Avars. Our language derived from Proto-Caucasian one in Stone age (along with Darghin, Chechen, Lezghin etc) before any Cimmerians, Scythians or someone else. We already inhabit Caucasus from immemorial times. Our aboriginal descent and our racial and genetic purity insulted you, Avarophobic Nazi of dubious descent.
Is your father from Sogratl (Sughralh)? I have bad news for you. Sogratl consist of three clans: Harshimanal (Darghins from Habshima), T'adehunal (Laks from Kumukh) and Qelderilal (Avars from Shamil district). From which clan descend your father?

[Turul Karom]

You, non-Avar woman, do you understand there are no Avars with Persian blood! ....our racial and genetic purity insulted you, Avarophobic Nazi of dubious descent.




Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance

1 Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) 5.34
2 Lak (Dagestan) 6.7
3 Avar (Dagestan) 6.79
4 Avar (Dagestan_Gergebil) 6.79
5 Tabasaran (Dagestan) 6.83
6 Dargin (Urkarah) 7.17
7 Kumyk (Stalskoe) 7.45
8 Lezgin (Dagestan) 7.77
9 Avar (Dagestan_Shangoda) 9.65
10 Kabardin (Kabardino-Balkaria) 10.86
11 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 10.89
12 Circassian (Circassia) 11.42
13 Kumyk (Dagestan) 12.39
14 Chechen (Chechnya) 12.55
15 Ossetian (North_Ossetia) 12.94
16 Azerbaijani_Khachmaz (Azerbaijan_Khachmaz) 13.08
17 Azerbaijani (Azerbaijan) 14.06
18 Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) 14.24
19 Abkhazian_Lykhny (Lykhny) 14.55
20 Azerbaijani_Dagestan (Azerbaijan_Dagestan) 14.62

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance

1 96.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.5% Basque (France) @ 4.95
2 96.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.4% French (SouthFrance) @ 5.06
3 96.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.8% Spanish (Castilla_la_Mancha) @ 5.1
4 97.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 2.8% Sardinian (Sardinia) @ 5.11
5 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Spanish (Aragon) @ 5.14
6 92.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7.2% Georgian_Abkhazia (Abkhazia) @ 5.18
7 96.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.2% Spanish (Andalucia) @ 5.18
8 95.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.7% Jew (Algeria) @ 5.19
9 95.1% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.9% Italian (SouthItaly) @ 5.2
10 95.2% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.8% Jew (Turkey) @ 5.21
11 93.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 6.7% Georgian (Kakheti) @ 5.21
12 95.6% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.4% Jew (Italian) @ 5.22
13 91.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 8.7% Chechen (Chechnya) @ 5.23
14 96.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.3% Italian (Bergamo) @ 5.23
15 95.5% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.5% Jew (Bulgaria) @ 5.23
16 95.8% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.2% Sicilian (Sicily) @ 5.23
17 95.4% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 4.6% Greek (Athens) @ 5.24
18 93% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 7% Balkar (Kabardino-Balkaria) @ 5.24
19 84.7% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 15.3% Kumyk (Stalskoe) @ 5.25
20 96.3% Ava (Dagestan_Khunzakh) + 3.7% Arab_Israel (Iqrit) @ 5.26



https://i.imgur.com/cceu8aY.jpg

[Hajimurad]

https://i.imgur.com/cceu8aY.jpg

What are you talking about? She is close to aboriginal Caucasians, not to Magyars or Turkics. Her genetic results totally refute all her theories about Avars. But she is a Nazi who don't know language of ancestors and want to be a Turkic and European.
Her case is similar to first president of Hungary (Lajos Kossuth). Despite his Slovak origin, he denied existence of Slovak nation and wanted to exterminate them by Magyarization.

[Kyp]

https://i.imgur.com/cceu8aY.jpg

Very native caucasian result. Bad position to badmouth Transcaucasian Turks.

[Turul Karom]

What are you talking about? She is close to aboriginal Caucasians, not to Magyars or Turkics. Her genetic results totally refute all her theories about Avars. But she is a Nazi who don't know language of ancestors and want to be a Turkic and European.
Her case is similar to first president of Hungary (Lajos Kossuth). Despite his Slovak origin, he denied existence of Slovak nation and wanted to exterminate them by Magyarization.

You were saying she is not Avar, I was pointing out that she matches Avars in her results very strongly. This is why I highlighted "dubious origin" in your quote. I don't understand what makes her a "Nazi", since the actual political party is defunct, so you must mean "neo-nazi". She scores Turkic on K11, and other calcs have primary populations as Tatars (again, up to her if she would like to post them again in this or another thread), and "European" is what, in this context? European as in geography? That would be as simple as moving. As in phenotype? She already is "white European", as are large majority of Caucasians. As in culture? I have never heard Buusra envy the west, and has only espoused prideful attitudes for Turkic peoples. I have not seen her post anything relating to wistfulness for Nazi ideology. Proto-Nordic appearance doesn't make one into a neo-nazi either. You would have to show me evidence so that I could understand, just like I have also politely asked for more information regarding the Georgian Orthodox conspiracy against Avars and/or other Caucasian Muslims. Calling it a "conspiracy" doesn't make it real or false; your telling of their motivation is what makes it a literal conspiracy as the Georgians would be "conspiring" to gaslight identities. Please show me, if you can, Georgians falsifying Turkicness in order to create ethnic strife or de-legitimize Caucasians. You may or may not be Turkic yourself, but I do not see wherefore comes the logic for her de-legitimization. More academic research regarding the legacy of the pre-Ottoman Turkic populations of the Caucasus is very, very needed.


Very native caucasian result. Bad position to badmouth Transcaucasian Turks.

What do you mean? I don't bad-mouth my Transcaucasian Turkic family whatsoever. Or am I misunderstanding something?

[Nanushka]

See the autosomal maps of some Avars from Sogratl Avar DNA project, and guess what is their first place, showing the Turkic relevance despite hundreds of decades:

94272
94273
94274

and the autosomal DNA map of mine, being a Khunzah Avar from maternal and Sogratl Avar from paternal sides, all Avars share almost the same structure:

94275

I am by no means a racist nor neo-nazi, lol, but imo even being a racist is better then being stupid

[Hajimurad]

You were saying she is not Avar, I was pointing out that she matches Avars in her results very strongly. This is why I highlighted "dubious origin" in your quote. I don't understand what makes her a "Nazi", since the actual political party is defunct, so you must mean "neo-nazi". She scores Turkic on K11, and other calcs have primary populations as Tatars (again, up to her if she would like to post them again in this or another thread), and "European" is what, in this context? European as in geography? That would be as simple as moving. As in phenotype? She already is "white European", as are large majority of Caucasians. As in culture? I have never heard Buusra envy the west, and has only espoused prideful attitudes for Turkic peoples. I have not seen her post anything relating to wistfulness for Nazi ideology. Proto-Nordic appearance doesn't make one into a neo-nazi either. You would have to show me evidence so that I could understand, just like I have also politely asked for more information regarding the Georgian Orthodox conspiracy against Avars and/or other Caucasian Muslims. Calling it a "conspiracy" doesn't make it real or false; your telling of their motivation is what makes it a literal conspiracy as the Georgians would be "conspiring" to gaslight identities. Please show me, if you can, Georgians falsifying Turkicness in order to create ethnic strife or de-legitimize Caucasians. You may or may not be Turkic yourself, but I do not see wherefore comes the logic for her de-legitimization. More academic research regarding the legacy of the pre-Ottoman Turkic populations of the Caucasus is very, very needed.



What do you mean? I don't bad-mouth my Transcaucasian Turkic family whatsoever. Or am I misunderstanding something?
From Leoti Mroveli's "Life of Kartli kings" p.21:
"у армян и картлийцев, ранов и моваканов, эров и леков, мегрелов и кавкасианов — у всех этих народов был единый отец по имени Таргамос. Среди сынов его отличились восемь братьев, которых звали так: первого — Гаос, второго — Картлос, третьего — Бардос, четвёртого — Мовакан, пятого — Лекос, шестого — Эрос, седьмого — Кавкасос, восьмого — Эгрoc"
Translation:Armenians and Georgians of Kartli, Rans and Movakans, Eri and Leks, Mingrelians and Caucasians have one father named Targamos. Among his sons very prominent were eight brothers, who were called: first - Haos, second - Kartlos, third - Bardos, fourth - Movakan, five - Lekos, sixth - Eros, seventh - Kavkasos, eighth - Egros.
Same source p.25:
"В первый же свой поход хазарский царь перевалил горы Кавказа и полонил народы, о чем выше писано мною. Дурдзук же, что был самым знаменитым среди сынов Кавкаса, ушел и расположился в горной теснине, которой и дал имя свое — Дурдзукети. Хозоних, что был самым знаменитым в роду Лекана, ушел в горную теснину, воздвиг там город и дал ему свое имя — Хозонихети. С тех пор в течение долгого времени все эти народы были данниками хазар."
Translation: At the first expedition Khazar king came through Caucasus mountains and conquer peoples, mentioned above. Durdzuk, who was very famous among sons of Kavkasos, went and settled in mountain canyon, which named after his Dzurdzuketi. Khozonikh, who was very famous in House of Lekan, went to mountain canyon, build city and gave his name to it - Khozonikheti. From these times continuously all these peoples were Khazar tributaries".
As we seen Avars (Khozonikh) were considered as Leks (aboriginal Daghestanis), related to Durdzuks (ancestors of Chechens).
Avar historian Aytberov write about Turkic Avars in his book "Ancient Khunzakh and Khunzakhians" p. 21 :
"В грузинской летописи «Картлис Цховреба» сказано, что во время правления в Восточной Грузии, в Картли, Гурама-куропалата на Северный Кавказ переселились с Востока авары. Тогда Гурам-куропалат «расселил их в горных ущельях Кавказа, а также в Хунзахе, где они и ныне называются аварами». Самые же знатные из тех кочевых аваров, по «Картлис Цховреба», были поселены на княжеских правах в Грузии и именно от них происходят ксанские эриставы"
Translation: "Georgian manuscript Kartlis Tskhovreba say when Guaram Curopalate ruled Kartli (Eastern Georgia) Avars from East migrated to Northern Caucasus. Guaram Curopalate settled them in mountain canyons of Caucasus and also in Khunzakh, where they nowadays called as Avars."
Kartlis Tskhovreba doesn't have such passage. Aytberov borrowed this passage from S. Kakabadze "Chronicle of Ksan Eristavi" who add commentary: "Согласно одному преданию, записанному Иоанном Багратиони в 1799 г. ксанские эриставы пришли вместе с аварцами из Туркестана во время этого Гварама."
Translation: "According to legend, written by Ioann Bagrationi at 1799 year Eristavs of Ksani came along with Avars from Turkestan in the times of Guaram"
Do you understand? Before Islamization Avars were considered as stock kindred to other Caucasians. After Islamization because Avars were allies of Ottomans, Georgians create legends about common origin of Turks and Avars. Majority of Daghestani historians are ethnic-biased and want to glorify past.
I call her Nazi because she want deprive us of our identity, religion and language in favour to Turkish one. This is ridiculous how Tengriist Pagan woman consider Imam Shamil (leader of Islamic jihad against Russia) as her hero. Did she said to you how Imam Shamil exterminated dynasty of Khunzakh nutsals by throwing off from rocks their last heir - 10-years old Bulach? Did she said to you how Imam Shamil enforced Sharia law and build a Saudi-like state? She never told you truth because she had an agenda.
We doesn't need any research of Turkic influence of Daghestan because Turkic history of Daghestan (Khazars, Kipchaks, Kumyks) are better known than those of aboriginals. Before Khazars first came Onogurs, Savirs and Barsils, who founded Hunnic kingdom with Belenjer (Gelbakh) as capital and Elteber as head of state. After Kokturk conquest a branch of Ashina dynasty was established on these tribes. Disintegration of Kokturk khaganate led to Khazar khaganate with Semender (Tarki) as capital. After wars with Arabs Khazars were weakened and relocated capital to Itil, which was destroyed by combined force of Rus and Oghuz Turks. After this catastrophe remnants of Khazars returned to Daghestan and rebuilt Semender as capital of New Hunnic kingdom (Hunzan) with Elteber as ruler. According to Alikberov, Hunzan became Khayzan and latter Khaydak (Kaytag) and was conquered by Ghazis (Jihadists) from Derbent thus founding Khaydak (Kaytag) dynasty of Utsmi (aboriginal Darghin title). But Fedorov-Guseynov (a Kumyk historian) wrote about Hunnic kingdom as destroyed by Kipchaks. Khazars were vanished before Mongols and assimilated by Kipchaks turning into modern Kumyks and partly Darghins of Kaytag.

[Hajimurad]

See the autosomal maps of some Avars from Sogratl Avar DNA project, and guess what is their first place, showing the Turkic relevance despite hundreds of decades:

94272
94273
94274

and the autosomal DNA map of mine, being a Khunzah Avar from maternal and Sogratl Avar from paternal sides, all Avars share almost the same structure:

94275

I am by no means a racist nor neo-nazi, lol, but imo even being a racist is better then being stupid

Autosomes are irrelevant. Better show their Y-DNA results.

[Nanushka]

Autosomes are irrelevant. Better show their Y-DNA results.

Ahaha I was expecting this, when you have nothing to say, twist the reality and try to impose your own agenda: 'that is irrelevant, show another one' lolol, how scientific. Autosomal is the one that reflects your whole past, including both paternal and maternal sides, going back to very old times, eveybody knows it. And we all know about their y-DNA: J1, R1, even I (G is among Cirkassians more), but that will not help you. And the source you have given above just reinforces our claim, not yours, you only try to interprete it according to your own expectations! Poor troll, you are drowning. Stop fighting with me and accept the real past of Avars, who bear the name of that glorious, advanced people of the time.

I admire Shamil not because he was a muslim but he fought bravely against invading Russians for the independence of his people. Islam was his only shelter at that time but do you know who helped him during his gazavat, 'muslim' Ottomans you admired? Nope. They never helped northern Caucasians. They only got married to their beautiful girls, and thankfully accepted them to their land after the infamous Great Exhile when russians deported our people to inevitable death! No, it was Magyars, led by Kossuth Lajos you mentioned above (again twisting the reality ofc). Why do you think they helped Shamil, it was because he knew that we were from same roots. Turul Karom has got evidence about it. Even today Hungarians support us in international arena, just for the same reason! Arabs or persians just watch as they watch the refugees. So why would I care about Islam (or other Abrahamic religions) when they give me shit only in terms of 'religious brotherhood'? Only blood talks and matters! Oh, btw, my grandprents taught me a beautiful islam but I cant see their tolerant religion around at all today, so I never follow it


Did she said to you how Imam Shamil exterminated dynasty of Khunzakh nutsals by throwing off from rocks their last heir - 10-years old Bulach? Did she said to you how Imam Shamil enforced Sharia law and build a Saudi-like state? She never told you truth because she had an agenda.

What is my agenda, and why would I hide it from from Turul, lol, I dont care about it at all. But Shamil was never like Saudi-wahabi shit because the nature and characteristics of my people, Avars, is nothing like Arabs, it is you who is a wahabi cringe, so only talk on your account! Avar Khanate may have been a challenge for Shamil but this doesnt change the reality that they all were Avars whose ancestors came from the steppes! Bahu Bike, Bulat, Umay, these are all Turkic names that reflect their past. Stop talking about the subjects that you are ignorant about anymore and only focus on near history of Avars and north Caucasians as this is the only thing you are aware of

[Hajimurad]

Ahaha I was expecting this, when you have nothing to say, twist the reality and try to impose your own agenda: 'that is irrelevant, show another one' lolol, how scientific. Autosomal is the one that reflects your whole past, including both paternal and maternal sides, going back to very old times, eveybody knows it. And we all know about their y-DNA: J1, R1, even I (G is among Cirkassians more), but that will not help you. And the source you have given above just reinforces our claim, not yours, you only try to interprete it according to your own expectations! Poor troll, you are drowning. Stop fighting with me and accept the real past of Avars, who bear the name of that glorious, advanced people of the time.

I admire Shamil not because he was a muslim but he fought bravely against invading Russians for the independence of his people. Islam was his only shelter at that time but do you know who helped him during his gazavat, 'muslim' Ottomans you admired? Nope. They never helped northern Caucasians. They only got married to their beautiful girls, and thankfully accepted them to their land after the infamous Great Exhile when russians deported our people to inevitable death! No, it was Magyars, led by Kossuth Lajos you mentioned above (again twisting the reality ofc). Why do you think they helped Shamil, it was because he knew that we were from same roots. Turul Karom has got evidence about it. Even today Hungarians support us in international arena, just for the same reason! Arabs or persians just watch as they watch the refugees. So why would I care about Islam (or other Abrahamic religions) when they give me shit only in terms of 'religious brotherhood'? Only blood talks and matters! Oh, btw, my grandprents taught me a beautiful islam but I cant see their tolerant religion around at all today, so I never follow it



What is my agenda, and why would I hide it from from Turul, lol, I dont care about it at all. But Shamil was never like Saudi-wahabi shit because the nature and characteristics of my people, Avars, is nothing like Arabs, it is you who is a wahabi cringe, so only talk on your account! Avar Khanate may have been a challenge for Shamil but this doesnt change the reality that they all were Avars whose ancestors came from the steppes! Bahu Bike, Bulat, Umay, these are all Turkic names that reflect their past. Stop talking about the subjects that you are ignorant about anymore and only focus on near history of Avars and north Caucasians as this is the only thing you are aware of
Imam Shamil forbade alcohol, smoking, music and dances. Also he forced women to cover their faces. Imam introduced death penalty for giving up praying. Read his Nizams (Laws) and don't spread nonsense.
His war against Russia was called Ghazawat (Arabic term which means raid and was synonymous to Jihad). He was ally of Ottomans not because mythical Turkicity of Avars but because sultan was a caliph (leader of all Muslims).
How Avars can come from steppes if we call themselves Highlanders? No Avar village has legends about lowland ancestors. Our villages are founded by aboriginal hunter-gatherers from south (Tsunta-Tsumada) or West (mountain Chechen land). Tsunta and Tsumada districts has greatest diversity of Avar languages (Khwarshin, Dido, Bejta, Godoberi, Chamalal etc.). Avars are of Taurid (Mtebid) race which speak language of Caucasian family. Our ancestors were in Caucasus before any Cimmerians or Huns. Deal with it!
Majority of Avars are of J1-M267 haplogroup, which also common in our linguistical brothers (Darghins, Laks, Lezghins etc). G2-P303 haplogroup is a founded in Chechen Turlov family, who is a off-shoot of Khunzakh nutsal dynasty (lol, nutsals aren't Turkic).
Avars with R1b-L23 and I2c share common ancestors with Christian Transcaucasians (Georgians and Armenians) which suggest their non-Avar descent.
About names - you again distort Avar names. Pakhu (not Bahu) and Bulach (not Bulat) are indigenous Avar manes without Turkic etymology. Also no Avar bore name Umay. Get out your hands from my ethnicity!

[Nakhchi]

Imam Shamil forbade alcohol, smoking, music and dances. Also he forced women to cover their faces. Imam introduced death penalty for giving up praying. Read his Nizams (Laws) and don't spread nonsense.
His war against Russia was called Ghazawat (Arabic term which means raid and was synonymous to Jihad). He was ally of Ottomans not because mythical Turkicity of Avars but because sultan was a caliph (leader of all Muslims).
How Avars can come from steppes if we call themselves Highlanders? No Avar village has legends about lowland ancestors. Our villages are founded by aboriginal hunter-gatherers from south (Tsunta-Tsumada) or West (mountain Chechen land). Tsunta and Tsumada districts has greatest diversity of Avar languages (Khwarshin, Dido, Bejta, Godoberi, Chamalal etc.). Avars are of Taurid (Mtebid) race which speak language of Caucasian family. Our ancestors were in Caucasus before any Cimmerians or Huns. Deal with it!
Majority of Avars are of J1-M267 haplogroup, which also common in our linguistical brothers (Darghins, Laks, Lezghins etc). G2-P303 haplogroup is a founded in Chechen Turlov family, who is a off-shoot of Khunzakh nutsal dynasty (lol, nutsals aren't Turkic).
Avars with R1b-L23 and I2c share common ancestors with Christian Transcaucasians (Georgians and Armenians) which suggest their non-Avar descent.
About names - you again distort Avar names. Pakhu (not Bahu) and Bulach (not Bulat) are indigenous Avar manes without Turkic etymology. Also no Avar bore name Umay. Get out your hands from my ethnicity!

Do you know The origins of The Turlov family? I read that they were either Avar or Kumyk, initially they were a Kumyk family called Tuarav i think.

[Hajimurad]

Do you know The origins of The Turlov family? I read that they were either Avar or Kumyk, initially they were a Kumyk family called Tuarav i think.

They were initially rulers of Gumbet but afterwards come to rule over Ichkeria. They descended from Karakishi ("Black man" in Kumyk language), brother of Khunzakh nutsal Muhammad-Shamkhal. They were named after Turarav (son of Karakishi), whose name means "mad" or "spoiled" in Avar language.

[Nanushka]

..spluttering and 'How Avars can come from steppes if we call themselves Highlanders'?

Yes, who are you? An Avarized mtebid or a hired troll lol, latter is more possible as its obvious from your writing style. No Avar man would never ever react this way, spluttering and spreading hate against Turkic origins! Oh I am so bored, YOU get your dirty hands off my ethnicity and people, mtebid, taurid, lowland person of persian origin, you have no slightest historical or anthropoligical knowledge but still screaming around with the irrelevant ethnic names in Dagestan in order to confuse minds and justify nonsense

You are not the one who can decide about Turkic Avar descend with your scarce info and halfwit, THEY were in Dagestan as rulers and changed the politicval ans social structure of the land forever! Read real history! And you couldnt refute even one evidence that I submitted, and you can never do that! Only thing you do is trying to interprete that one source you have as it already gives the right info about the Avars that came from steppes and Turkstan, you desperately try to twist it

Bike is Queen in Turkic languages, all our cultural heritage is from Turkic Avars, our language has sound Turkic layers (I know the both languages and etymology, not you) as I wrote earlier and before Kimmerinas were Yamnaya and Maykop cultures in northern Caucasia. Who do you think they were? And Shamil was never like you, wahabi, even if he was devout muslim. You are fake. If you once more talk about jihad or try to glorify Saudis and wahabism, and against my proven Avarness, you will be reported

[Hajimurad]

Yes, who are you? An Avarized mtebid or a hired troll lol, latter is more possible as its obvious from your writing style. No Avar man would never ever react this way, spluttering and spreading hate against Turkic origins! Oh I am so bored, YOU get your dirty hands off my ethnicity and people, mtebid, taurid, lowland person of persian origin, you have no slightest historical or anthropoligical knowledge but still screaming around with the irrelevant ethnic names in Dagestan in order to confuse minds and justify nonsense

You are not the one who can decide about Turkic Avar descend with your scarce info and halfwit, THEY were in Dagestan as rulers and changed the politicval ans social structure of the land forever! Read real history! And you couldnt refute even one evidence that I submitted, and you can never do that! Only thing you do is trying to interprete that one source you have as it already gives the right info about the Avars that came from steppes and Turkstan, you desperately try to twist it

Bike is Queen in Turkic languages, all our cultural heritage is from Turkic Avars, our language has sound Turkic layers (I know the both languages and etymology, not you) as I wrote earlier and before Kimmerinas were Yamnaya and Maykop cultures in northern Caucasia. Who do you think they were? And Shamil was never like you, wahabi, even if he was devout muslim. You are fake. If you once more talk about jihad or try to glorify Saudis and wahabism, and against my proven Avarness, you will be reported

Yamnaya culture was in Ukraine and between Volga and Don rivers, not in Caucasus. From this culture derived Corded ware culture in Europe and Andronovo culture in Kazakhstan. These cultures has nothing to Caucasus.
Maykop culture was in Western Caucasus and again has nothing common to Daghestan.
Only culture who was been in Daghestan is Kura-Araxes culture (ancestors of Nakh-Daghestani and Hurro-Urartian peoples). Disintegration of Kura-Araxes into smaller cultures is corresponded to division of Nakh-Daghestanian languages. You again fail.
Turkic "Avars" never been in Daghestan. Sarir (first Avar state) has Ikhran (modern Irghanay) as first capital. His population were described as Tau-Lezghisi (Mountain Lezghins). First ruling dynasty was a branch of Mihranid house of Caucasian Albania (they claimed descent from Bahram Chubin). During Arab invasion capital of Sarir was shifted to Khumzakh (Shamkhals of Kumukh called this state as "vilayat Khumz"). After Arab invasion a new dynasty emerged - nutsals (descendants of Surakat) who initially were petty chiefs of Tanusi village. Check Derbend-name for this. No contemporary sources (even Khazaric and Arabic) spoke about connection between Pannonian and Caucasian Avars.
All our "Turkic heritage" is from recent Kumyk language.
I'm not a Wahhabi or Jihadist. All things I wrote about Imam Shamil is true. Check "Paradise under sabres" by Muhammad Tahir al-Karakhi. And Avars of Khunzakh hate Imam Hamzat-Bek for killing of Pakhu-bike and her two heirs, and Imam Shamil for killing Bulach-nutsal. This is harsh truth.

[Nakhchi]

They were initially rulers of Gumbet but afterwards come to rule over Ichkeria. They descended from Karakishi ("Black man" in Kumyk language), brother of Khunzakh nutsal Muhammad-Shamkhal. They were named after Turarav (son of Karakishi), whose name means "mad" or "spoiled" in Avar language.

So they were Kumyk in origin? or Avar since they were the brother of the Khunzakh nutsal? Turlovs settled in the Chechan area in 1630s trough a military alliance with the ruler of Chechens Aldam-Ghez and The Turlovs. They were supposed to guard the Argun gorge and Aldam was supposed to guard the lands belonging to the Turlovs. It was an anti-iranian alliance i think but not sure.

[Hajimurad]

So they were Kumyk in origin? or Avar since they were the brother of the Khunzakh nutsal? Turlovs settled in the Chechan area in 1630s trough a military alliance with the ruler of Chechens Aldam-Ghez and The Turlovs. They were supposed to guard the Argun gorge and Aldam was supposed to guard the lands belonging to the Turlovs. It was an anti-iranian alliance i think but not sure.

No, they weren't Kumyk. Chechen people of Ichkeria invited Turarav to be their military leader (as Rurik in Russia). Chechen legends say about battles with Nogays and Kalmyks.

[Nakhchi]

No, they weren't Kumyk. Chechen people of Ichkeria invited Turarav to be their military leader (as Rurik in Russia). Chechen legends say about battles with Nogays and Kalmyks.

Im confused so is he Avar?, Chechens didnt invite him to be their military leader, he was there to defend the Argun gorge same as Aldam-Ghez was to defend Mexelta. This is a fact and there is even documents of it with the seal of Aldam Ghez.

[Hajimurad]

Im confused so is he Avar?, Chechens didnt invite him to be their military leader, he was there to defend the Argun gorge same as Aldam-Ghez was to defend Mexelta. This is a fact and there is even documents of it with the seal of Aldam Ghez.
Yes, he is an Avar! Why are you confused? Many Avars and Andis settled in Chechen lands after Islamization and were assimilated.
About Aldam-Ghez - I found only Aldam-Gez is an castle on Daghestan-Chechen border, named after Aldam-Gezi from Chaberloy. I didn't found much about him.

[Nakhchi]

Yes, he is an Avar! Why are you confused? Many Avars and Andis settled in Chechen lands after Islamization and were assimilated.
About Aldam-Ghez - I found only Aldam-Gez is an castle on Daghestan-Chechen border, named after Aldam-Gezi from Chaberloy. I didn't found much about him.

Ah ok i misunderstood when u said his name was of Kumyk origin because i heard the house was either of Kumyk or Avar origin. Many Avars and Andis didnt settle in Chechen lands, some did here and there but many didn't. Only according to idiot soviet historians who didnt know anything about our history did large amount of Avars settle in Chechnya.

Aldam Ghez was a Chechen ruler from Chebarloy in the middle of the 1600s, he is mentioned in both Avar and Russian writings.

Look up "«Соглашение чеберлоевских аристократов Алдамовичей с князьями Турловыми» on page 70 and it describes the deal plus shows handwritten paper and the seal of both Aldam and Turlov.

https://instituteofhistory.ru/media/library/publication/files/%D0%90%D0%B9%D1%82%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2_2 006._%D0%90%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE-%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D 0%B5_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0 %BB%D0%B8_%D0%B8%D0%B7_%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1 %81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BB%D0% BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%85.pdf


And here is an article on his career as Mehk-Da of Chechnya
https://www.proza.ru/2019/12/30/99

[Hajimurad]

Ah ok i misunderstood when u said his name was of Kumyk origin because i heard the house was either of Kumyk or Avar origin. Many Avars and Andis didnt settle in Chechen lands, some did here and there but many didn't. Only according to idiot soviet historians who didnt know anything about our history did large amount of Avars settle in Chechnya.

Aldam Ghez was a Chechen ruler from Chebarloy in the middle of the 1600s, he is mentioned in both Avar and Russian writings.

Look up "«Соглашение чеберлоевских аристократов Алдамовичей с князьями Турловыми» on page 70 and it describes the deal plus shows handwritten paper and the seal of both Aldam and Turlov.

https://instituteofhistory.ru/media/library/publication/files/%D0%90%D0%B9%D1%82%D0%B1%D0%B5%D1%80%D0%BE%D0%B2_2 006._%D0%90%D0%B2%D0%B0%D1%80%D0%BE-%D1%87%D0%B5%D1%87%D0%B5%D0%BD%D1%81%D0%BA%D0%B8%D 0%B5_%D0%BF%D1%80%D0%B0%D0%B2%D0%B8%D1%82%D0%B5%D0 %BB%D0%B8_%D0%B8%D0%B7_%D0%B4%D0%B8%D0%BD%D0%B0%D1 %81%D1%82%D0%B8%D0%B8_%D0%A2%D1%83%D1%80%D0%BB%D0% BE%D0%B2%D1%8B%D1%85.pdf


And here is an article on his career as Mehk-Da of Chechnya
https://www.proza.ru/2019/12/30/99

About Aldam-Geza - thanks for information.
About Andis and Avars - look at Chechen forums, where their users constantly dispute who is true Chechen, who is Kumyk, who is Avar. The only objective information about foreign migration to Chechen lands is "Ethnic history of Northern Caucasus in XVI-XIX c" by Anchabadze and Volkova.
http://apsnyteka.org/2941-anchabadze_y_volkova_n_etnicheskaja_istorya_severn ogo_kavkaza_XVI_XIX_veka_1993.html

[Nakhchi]

About Aldam-Geza - thanks for information.
About Andis and Avars - look at Chechen forums, where their users constantly dispute who is true Chechen, who is Kumyk, who is Avar. The only objective information about foreign migration to Chechen lands is "Ethnic history of Northern Caucasus in XVI-XIX c" by Anchabadze and Volkova.
http://apsnyteka.org/2941-anchabadze_y_volkova_n_etnicheskaja_istorya_severn ogo_kavkaza_XVI_XIX_veka_1993.html

Chechens probably have the worst knowledge about their history than anyone in the Caucasus. My uncle who is a highlander calls my fathers teip "Avar" only because it is in the East. Same way many Chechens call different teips after other nations like Nokkoi = Nogai and Turkoy = Turkic. None of this is true and it is shown in DNA tests, Turkoy for example are 100% Chechen and come from Nasxoy, only reason they are called Turkoy is because they came from a village called Tur-Kxel. Chechen forums are often dumb too, foreign teips ususally have the name of their ancestors like "gazghumki" = Lak and "Ghebertlo"= Kabardin. There is even a teip called 1andoy which comes from Andi, they speak pure Chechen and consider themselves Chechen but it is not a teip, only people that settled in Chechnya before.

I downloaded that book, thanks.

[Root]

Only culture who was been in Daghestan is Kura-Araxes culture (ancestors of Nakh-Daghestani and Hurro-Urartian peoples).




personally not sure about culture and genetics but linguistically these ancient Hurro-Urartian peoples had their own peculiar language sounds and pronunciation that had clearly nothing in common with such called their fellows as indigenous of NE Caucasus Nakh-Daghestanian peoples, linguistically Na-Dene peoples (Tlingit, Navajo etc) are even closer to us more than we could have imagined



Hurrian and Urartian languages (both are much closer to Armenian than to any other existed languages in the modern world)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjpPuFJMlCI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKqVbQ0CBrg





Na-Dene languages


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6P1snUWFR4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s5h-dwC0Ow


oh, God! Their numbers and sounds are unusually similar to the Nakh languages :lol:

[Hajimurad]

personally not sure about culture and genetics but linguistically these ancient Hurro-Urartian peoples had their own peculiar language sounds and pronunciation that had clearly nothing in common with such called their fellows as indigenous of NE Caucasus Nakh-Daghestanian peoples, linguistically Na-Dene peoples (Tlingit, Navajo etc) are even closer to us more than we could have imagined



Hurrian and Urartian languages (both are much closer to Armenian than to any other existed languages in the modern world)



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PjpPuFJMlCI


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gKqVbQ0CBrg





Na-Dene languages


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G6P1snUWFR4


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3s5h-dwC0Ow


oh, God! Their numbers and sounds are unusually similar to the Nakh languages :lol:

I found sounds similar to my language, especially Tlingit, Лъингит :cool:

[Root]

I found sounds similar to my language, especially Tlingit, Лъингит :cool:




the most unique & harsh sounding languages in the world that make a man a man

[Hajimurad]

Buusra, I apologize to you for personal insults against you and your relatives. I shouldn't being rude towards you. But you should understand - Caucasian Avars aren't Turkic people. You better should learn language of your ancestors. You can use Avar-Kumyk glossary for it.

[Loki]

Buusra, I apologize to you for personal insults against you and your relatives. I shouldn't being rude towards you. But you should understand - Caucasian Avars aren't Turkic people. You better should learn language of your ancestors. You can use Avar-Kumyk glossary for it.

Hi dude, you should stop insulting Buusra here, okay? Insults towards other members will get you banned, quickly. Insulting her origins is the same as insulting her personally.

[Nanushka]

Buusra, I apologize to you for personal insults against you and your relatives. I shouldn't being rude towards you. But you should understand - Caucasian Avars aren't Turkic people. You better should learn language of your ancestors. You can use Avar-Kumyk glossary for it.

I know the language of my people enough so I can make comparisons. I submitted lots of cultural proof and scientific evidence here, they all point to the Turkic origins of Avars while even solely our ethnic name Avar is enough to prove it. Without accepting this you will only be insulting yourself, nobody else. There is no coincidence in history and I suggest you learn your history better

[Hajimurad]

I know the language of my people enough so I can make comparisons. I submitted lots of cultural proof and scientific evidence here, they all point to the Turkic origins of Avars while even solely our ethnic name Avar is enough to prove it. Without accepting this you will only be insulting yourself, nobody else. There is no coincidence in history and I suggest you learn your history better

Your never change. Better buy Avar-Kumyk dictionary, learn Avar language and study Nizams (Laws) of Imam Shamil.