West Georgian Gedmatch Results + Bonus Carpatho Rusyn K36 Oracle

[asuvis]

Dodecad K12B:

Population %

1 Caucasus 47.26
2 Gedrosia 19.87
3 North_European 17.17
4 Atlantic_Med 7.2
5 Southwest_Asian 4.6
6 Siberian 1.22
7 Southeast_Asian 1.08
8 South_Asian 1.04
9 East_Asian 0.49
10 Sub_Saharan 0.06

MDLP World:

%:

1 Caucaus_Parsia 47.91
2 South_and_West_European 28.23
3 Middle_East 13.94
4 North_and_East_European 6.83
5 North_Asian 1.63
6 Melanesian 1.16
7 Paleo_African 0.29

Carpatho Rusyn yourdnaportel k36 oracle, can someone help me understand this one?

Population
Distance
BA_Sintashta_RISE395
1.252512
Scythian009_Ukraine
1.301793
BA_Srubnaya_I0234
1.408126
IA_Wielbark_Kow_55_PL
1.475275
BA_Srubnaya_I0232
1.510854
MBA_Ireland_Rathlin
1.611748
AV1_Hungary_Szolad
1.6644
DA119_Germanic_chieftain_Poprad
1.668659

[asuvis]

His parents and ancestors had lived in on the border of Wallachia and Carpathians.

[FinalFlash]

Dodecad K12B:

Population %

1 Caucasus 47.26
2 Gedrosia 19.87
3 North_European 17.17
4 Atlantic_Med 7.2
5 Southwest_Asian 4.6
6 Siberian 1.22
7 Southeast_Asian 1.08
8 South_Asian 1.04
9 East_Asian 0.49
10 Sub_Saharan 0.06

MDLP World:

%:

1 Caucaus_Parsia 47.91
2 South_and_West_European 28.23
3 Middle_East 13.94
4 North_and_East_European 6.83
5 North_Asian 1.63
6 Melanesian 1.16
7 Paleo_African 0.29

Carpatho Rusyn yourdnaportel k36 oracle, can someone help me understand this one?

Population
Distance
BA_Sintashta_RISE395
1.252512
Scythian009_Ukraine
1.301793
BA_Srubnaya_I0234
1.408126
IA_Wielbark_Kow_55_PL
1.475275
BA_Srubnaya_I0232
1.510854
MBA_Ireland_Rathlin
1.611748
AV1_Hungary_Szolad
1.6644
DA119_Germanic_chieftain_Poprad
1.668659

Would you happen to have East Georgian kits that you can share?

[asuvis]

Would you happen to have East Georgian kits that you can share?

Sadly I don't. Only reason I have this is because it's a family member. Perk of being part Georgian.

[FinalFlash]

Sadly I don't. Only reason I have this is because it's a family member. Perk of being part Georgian.

Yeah. Anthrofora seems to be heavily overrepresented by Western Georgians while the East is seemingly neglected

[asuvis]

Yeah. Anthrofora seems to be heavily overrepresented by Western Georgians while the East is seemingly neglected

I'd say if you tested eastern Georgian's they would have much (relative) different results. Shows in appearance that's for sure.

[FinalFlash]

I'd say if you tested eastern Georgian's they would have much (relative) different results. Shows in appearance that's for sure.

That's the feeling I get too. They probably score similarly to Georgian_Laz. Are the phenotypical differences that drastic to the point where even the average Georgian can tell if someone is from Kakhetia or Svanetia?


There was a study conducted on some Turkish site that shows notable differences between west and east Georgians btw. I'll try to find that link.

[asuvis]

That's the feeling I get too. They probably score similarly to Georgian_Laz. Are the phenotypical differences that drastic to the point where even the average Georgian can tell if someone is from Kakhetia or Svanetia?


There was a study conducted on some Turkish site that shows notable differences between west and east Georgians btw. I'll try to find that link.

Laz are West Georgian. You can definitely tell the difference west vs east. My profile picture is me, any Georgian in a heartbeat could tell I am West Georgian. Many west Georgians have lighter skin and can pass easier in Balkans (Like how everyone thinks I'm Romanian). East Georgians look more Central Caucasus and have more Persian admixture. I mean accent is another thing too and you know quickly if someone is east or west by their surname.

-dze is usually west, while -shvilli is east. -eri or -i is usually west too. One of my ancestors surname was for example -Barteri ბარტერი. I sometimes mistake far east Georgians for other Caucasus people by look.

Anymore questions I am happy to answer :), I also know about Armenians too. Lived in Yerevan for a while.

[FinalFlash]

Laz are West Georgian. You can definitely tell the difference west vs east. My profile picture is me, any Georgian in a heartbeat could tell I am West Georgian. Many west Georgians have lighter skin and can pass easier in Balkans (Like how everyone thinks I'm Romanian). East Georgians look more Central Caucasus and have more Persian admixture. I mean accent is another thing too and you know quickly if someone is east or west by their surname.

-dze is usually west, while -shvilli is east. -eri or -i is usually west too. One of my ancestors surname was for example -Barteri ბარტერი. I sometimes mistake far east Georgians for other Caucasus people by look.

Anymore questions I am happy to answer :), I also know about Armenians too. Lived in Yerevan for a while.

Interesting. How long have you lived in Yerevan? What brought you there?

[asuvis]

Interesting. How long have you lived in Yerevan? What brought you there?

University for a while there. I have lived in US as well. During my time I traveled to every corner of Armenia. Gymuri, Vanadzor, Tatev, etc. Was quite a good time. I won't get to into detail but I am a citizen of more than one country so it was very easy to get free university there.

[FinalFlash]

University for a while there. I have lived in US as well. During my time I traveled to every corner of Armenia. Gymuri, Vanadzor, Tatev, etc. Was quite a good time. I won't get to into detail but I am a citizen of more than one country so it was very easy to get free university there.

That's great to hear. Since we are on an anthroforum, what do you think of the phenotypical spectrum of the locals? What are the more common phenos that you saw? How much phenotypical overlap did you see with Georgians(west or east)?

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Could you post K13 and K36 results please?

[asuvis]

Could you post K13 and K36 results please?

Yes, soon.

[asuvis]

Could you post K13 and K36 results please?

For you:

k36

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 2.15 Pct
Armenian 8.26 Pct
Basque -
Central_African -
Central_Euro 2.54 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 4.20 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro -
East_Med 5.80 Pct
Eastern_Euro 4.3 Pct
Fennoscandian 1.03 Pct
French 0.12 Pct
Iberian -
Indo-Chinese 0.47 Pct
Italian 1.42 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 4.57 Pct
North_African -
North_Atlantic -
North_Caucasian 29.63 Pct
North_Sea -
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian 3.78 Pct
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural -
West_African -
West_Caucasian 29.05 Pct
West_Med 2.64 Pct

[asuvis]

Could you post K13 and K36 results please?

Can you help me understand the k36 oracle for rusyn?

[Kyp]

part of the West Asian continuum

[Leto]

High North European for a Georgian. Dude, when you post results, you should first click "Oracle" and then copy and paste everything from top to bottom (from the title of a calculator to the last population).

[Luke35]

Nice results. Btw, your family member is one of few people I have seen who scores similar to me in that I get 3.40% South Central Asian on K36, but like him/her no Siberian or South Asian.

[Leto]

Laz are West Georgian. You can definitely tell the difference west vs east. My profile picture is me, any Georgian in a heartbeat could tell I am West Georgian. Many west Georgians have lighter skin and can pass easier in Balkans (Like how everyone thinks I'm Romanian). East Georgians look more Central Caucasus and have more Persian admixture. I mean accent is another thing too and you know quickly if someone is east or west by their surname.

-dze is usually west, while -shvilli is east. -eri or -i is usually west too. One of my ancestors surname was for example -Barteri ბარტერი. I sometimes mistake far east Georgians for other Caucasus people by look.

Anymore questions I am happy to answer :), I also know about Armenians too. Lived in Yerevan for a while.
Is Tbilisi majority East Georgian by ancestry? I mean 30% of all ethnic Georgians live there, so that's important to clarify.

[Kyp]

Nice results. Btw, your family member is one of few people I have seen who scores similar to me in that I get 3.40% South Central Asian on K36, but like him/her no Siberian or South Asian.

I think most of South Central Asian consists of Iranian Farmer/CHG like ancestry. Therefore most of it is West Asian.

[vbnetkhio]

Can you help me understand the k36 oracle for rusyn?

yourdnaportal has gone down in quality lately.
post the k13 and k15 oracles from gedmatch, that's better

[hussein khan]

Hey, could you try post mdlp k23b and harappaworld? I know both of these arent super great, but just wanna see these results from you

[user_]

Is Tbilisi majority East Georgian by ancestry? I mean 30% of all ethnic Georgians live there, so that's important to clarify.

Majority of Georgian population in Tbilisi is from west.
Georgians made only 21% of population of Tbilisi in 1801. Tbilisi became Georgian only in 20-th century, because of mass migration from the west. Eastern Georgia was depopulated and the new blood came from West. Western Georgia is 99% Georgian, while Eastern part has a huge Armenian and Azeri minorities.

Top 5 georgian surnames are from west: Beridze, Kapanadze, Maisuradze, Giorgadze, Lomidze.

[Leto]

Majority of Georgian population in Tbilisi is from west.
Georgians made only 21% of population of Tbilisi in 1801. Tbilisi became Georgian only in 20-th century, because of mass migration from the west. Eastern Georgia was depopulated and the new blood came from West. Western Georgia is 99% Georgian, while Eastern part has a huge Armenian and Azeri minorities.

Top 5 georgian surnames are from west: Beridze, Kapanadze, Maisuradze, Giorgadze, Lomidze.
I remember you, I wanted to hear the new member's thoughts (if he actually lives in Georgia and not in Russia or Europe).

[asuvis]

Majority of Georgian population in Tbilisi is from west.
Georgians made only 21% of population of Tbilisi in 1801. Tbilisi became Georgian only in 20-th century, because of mass migration from the west. Eastern Georgia was depopulated and the new blood came from West. Western Georgia is 99% Georgian, while Eastern part has a huge Armenian and Azeri minorities.

Top 5 georgian surnames are from west: Beridze, Kapanadze, Maisuradze, Giorgadze, Lomidze.

Pretty much right, a few things off but yes.

[asuvis]

I remember you, I wanted to hear the new member's thoughts (if he actually lives in Georgia and not in Russia or Europe).

He knows what he is talking about.

[asuvis]

Majority of Georgian population in Tbilisi is from west.
Georgians made only 21% of population of Tbilisi in 1801. Tbilisi became Georgian only in 20-th century, because of mass migration from the west. Eastern Georgia was depopulated and the new blood came from West. Western Georgia is 99% Georgian, while Eastern part has a huge Armenian and Azeri minorities.

Top 5 georgian surnames are from west: Beridze, Kapanadze, Maisuradze, Giorgadze, Lomidze.

საიდან ხარ?

[asuvis]

Hey, could you try post mdlp k23b and harappaworld? I know both of these arent super great, but just wanna see these results from you

When I am done with work I will.

[Leto]

He knows what he is talking about.
OK. Are Kakheti people almost as swarthy as Azerbaijanis? Azeris often look really woggy, probably darker than Armenians on average.

[asuvis]

OK. Are Kakheti people almost as swarthy as Azerbaijanis? Azeris often look really woggy, probably darker than Armenians on average.

I don't think so, but more than west. In-between.

[asuvis]

That's great to hear. Since we are on an anthroforum, what do you think of the phenotypical spectrum of the locals? What are the more common phenos that you saw? How much phenotypical overlap did you see with Georgians(west or east)?

There is lots of overlap, and I am not good at phenotype stuff. But I would say there is a lot of overlap overall, except maybe right on the black sea. Another Georgian would be better at Phenotypes.

[Leto]

How much European and West Asian did you get on 23andme?

[asuvis]

How much European and West Asian did you get on 23andme?

This is not my gedmatch but a family members. With ancestor locations they state, I got roughly 58% East Euro (Ukraine, Russia, Slovakia), 28% West Asian (Georgia, Turkey), 8.8% Balkan (Romania, lol but no I don't believe it), 5.2% North-West Euro (France)

[asuvis]

How much European and West Asian did you get on 23andme?

Used to show Croatia for balkan but changed recently. Neither are very right.

[Mingle]

This is not my gedmatch but a family members. With ancestor locations they state, I got roughly 58% East Euro (Ukraine, Russia, Slovakia), 28% West Asian (Georgia, Turkey), 8.8% Balkan (Romania, lol but no I don't believe it), 5.2% North-West Euro (France)

Which provinces in Turkey did you get in 23andMe?

How much Georgian are you by ancestry? 3/8?

[asuvis]

Which provinces in Turkey did you get in 23andMe?

How much Georgian are you by ancestry? 3/8?

I will keep some anonymity but higher than what I got. Balkan was a surprise I guess? Carpathian Ukrainians usually don't show up as Balkan. For Turkey I get Manisa, Denizli, Mugla, and Konya if I remember right, haven't looked at that section in a while.

[user_]

საიდან ხარ?

თბილისიდან, ისე წარმოშობით იმერელი.

[FinalFlash]

There is lots of overlap, and I am not good at phenotype stuff. But I would say there is a lot of overlap overall, except maybe right on the black sea. Another Georgian would be better at Phenotypes.

I asked 'user' before and he said he was surprised to see so many "Georgian faces" when he last visited. So I guess you are right.

[user_]

OK. Are Kakheti people almost as swarthy as Azerbaijanis? Azeris often look really woggy, probably darker than Armenians on average.

Woggyness of Kakhetian and Kartlian people is exaggerated. They are obviously darker than westerners, but not as dark as Azeris and even Armenians.
Kakhetia in the north is mixed with mountainous Georgians Tushetians, they are quite pale. Kartlians are very much mixed with Ossetians and with westerners.
Meskhetians in the south can really resemble Armenians, i think they are georgianized Armenians, but they don't make even 1 percent of Georgian population.

Kids from kakheti

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=03-86wb8UPw

And for comparison kids from west Georgia, the biggest difference is eye color, about half of westerners have light eyes, skin tone is almost same.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_LS1vXlAIH0&t=28s

[asuvis]

Someone asked for HarrapaWorld, here you go.

HW:

S-Indian 0.11 Pct
Baloch 17.12 Pct
Caucasian 53.08 Pct
NE-Euro 15.22 Pct
SE-Asian 1.60 Pct
Siberian 2.70 Pct
NE-Asian -
Papuan 0.40 Pct
American -
Beringian 0.51 Pct
Mediterranean 5.93 Pct
SW-Asian 3.33 Pct
San -
E-African -
Pygmy -
W-African -

[Leto]

A custom oracle by @vbnetkhio

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Adygei" "7.2926"
[2,] "Ossetian" "7.405"
[3,] "Georgian" "7.8913"
[4,] "Balkar" "8.048"
[5,] "North_Ossetian" "8.5562"
[6,] "Kabardin" "10.1552"
[7,] "Abhkasian" "10.3567"
[8,] "Kumyk" "10.9606"
[9,] "Chechen" "13.4452"
[10,] "Lezgin" "15.5902"
[11,] "Tabassaran" "18.264"
[12,] "Kurdish" "18.8956"
[13,] "Azeri" "20.2002"
[14,] "Armenian" "21.6545"
[15,] "Turkish" "21.9651"
[16,] "Iranian" "22.0909"
[17,] "Turkmen" "24.1177"
[18,] "Georgian_Jewish" "24.6207"
[19,] "Nogay" "26.0185"
[20,] "Tadjik" "28.5159"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "49.3 % Balkar + 50.7 % Georgian" "4.4264"
[2,] "84.3 % Abhkasian + 15.7 % Moldavian" "4.5381"
[3,] "86.4 % Abhkasian + 13.6 % East_German" "4.5586"
[4,] "85.3 % Abhkasian + 14.7 % Croatian" "4.57"
[5,] "86.3 % Abhkasian + 13.7 % Ukrainian_Lviv" "4.6056"
[6,] "86.7 % Abhkasian + 13.3 % Ukrainian" "4.6751"
[7,] "86 % Abhkasian + 14 % Austrian" "4.7076"
[8,] "87.3 % Abhkasian + 12.7 % Polish" "4.7591"
[9,] "90.5 % Georgian + 9.5 % Ukrainian" "4.7687"
[10,] "88.8 % Georgian + 11.2 % Moldavian" "4.7726"
[11,] "86.7 % Abhkasian + 13.3 % South_Polish" "4.7752"
[12,] "90.3 % Georgian + 9.7 % Ukrainian_Lviv" "4.7845"
[13,] "58.8 % Georgian + 41.2 % Kabardin" "4.7847"
[14,] "10.4 % Croatian + 89.6 % Georgian" "4.8313"
[15,] "85.7 % Abhkasian + 14.3 % Hungarian" "4.8924"
[16,] "91.1 % Georgian + 8.9 % Polish" "4.8954"
[17,] "91.2 % Georgian + 8.8 % Kargopol_Russian" "4.8955"
[18,] "90.7 % Georgian + 9.3 % South_Polish" "4.9107"
[19,] "9.4 % East_German + 90.6 % Georgian" "4.977"
[20,] "89.4 % Georgian + 10.6 % Tatar" "4.9815"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian" "4.5662"
[2,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Kabardin" "5.5358"
[3,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Ossetian" "5.8061"
[4,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Georgian" "5.8588"
[5,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % North_Ossetian" "6.1029"
[6,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Ossetian" "6.608"
[7,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Kabardin" "6.7171"
[8,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Kumyk" "6.8191"
[9,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Balkar" "6.9726"
[10,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % Ossetian" "7.5299"
[11,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Balkar" "7.5942"
[12,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % North_Ossetian" "7.6869"
[13,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Adygei" "8.0447"
[14,] "50% % North_Ossetian + 50% % Ossetian" "8.1191"
[15,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Ossetian" "8.1535"
[16,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Kumyk" "8.1895"
[17,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % North_Ossetian" "8.2664"
[18,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % North_Ossetian" "8.3294"
[19,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Chechen" "9.3455"
[20,] "50% % Kabardin + 50% % Ossetian" "9.4226"

[1] "nMONTE 1"
[1] "distance%=2.9266"

Abhkasian,41.7
North_Ossetian,41.2
Georgian,8
Sardinian,7.5
Lithuanian,0.9
Ossetian,0.4
Dai,0.3

[1] "nMONTE 3"
[1] "distance%=4.2601"

Georgian,51.4
Balkar,42.8
Ossetian,4
Armenian,0.2
Ashkenazi,0.2
Belorussian,0.2
Central_Greek,0.2
Cyprian,0.2
East_Sicilian,0.2
Italian_Abruzzo,0.2
North_Italian,0.2
West_German,0.2

[asuvis]

A custom oracle by @vbnetkhio

[,1] [,2]
[1,] "Adygei" "7.2926"
[2,] "Ossetian" "7.405"
[3,] "Georgian" "7.8913"
[4,] "Balkar" "8.048"
[5,] "North_Ossetian" "8.5562"
[6,] "Kabardin" "10.1552"
[7,] "Abhkasian" "10.3567"
[8,] "Kumyk" "10.9606"
[9,] "Chechen" "13.4452"
[10,] "Lezgin" "15.5902"
[11,] "Tabassaran" "18.264"
[12,] "Kurdish" "18.8956"
[13,] "Azeri" "20.2002"
[14,] "Armenian" "21.6545"
[15,] "Turkish" "21.9651"
[16,] "Iranian" "22.0909"
[17,] "Turkmen" "24.1177"
[18,] "Georgian_Jewish" "24.6207"
[19,] "Nogay" "26.0185"
[20,] "Tadjik" "28.5159"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "49.3 % Balkar + 50.7 % Georgian" "4.4264"
[2,] "84.3 % Abhkasian + 15.7 % Moldavian" "4.5381"
[3,] "86.4 % Abhkasian + 13.6 % East_German" "4.5586"
[4,] "85.3 % Abhkasian + 14.7 % Croatian" "4.57"
[5,] "86.3 % Abhkasian + 13.7 % Ukrainian_Lviv" "4.6056"
[6,] "86.7 % Abhkasian + 13.3 % Ukrainian" "4.6751"
[7,] "86 % Abhkasian + 14 % Austrian" "4.7076"
[8,] "87.3 % Abhkasian + 12.7 % Polish" "4.7591"
[9,] "90.5 % Georgian + 9.5 % Ukrainian" "4.7687"
[10,] "88.8 % Georgian + 11.2 % Moldavian" "4.7726"
[11,] "86.7 % Abhkasian + 13.3 % South_Polish" "4.7752"
[12,] "90.3 % Georgian + 9.7 % Ukrainian_Lviv" "4.7845"
[13,] "58.8 % Georgian + 41.2 % Kabardin" "4.7847"
[14,] "10.4 % Croatian + 89.6 % Georgian" "4.8313"
[15,] "85.7 % Abhkasian + 14.3 % Hungarian" "4.8924"
[16,] "91.1 % Georgian + 8.9 % Polish" "4.8954"
[17,] "91.2 % Georgian + 8.8 % Kargopol_Russian" "4.8955"
[18,] "90.7 % Georgian + 9.3 % South_Polish" "4.9107"
[19,] "9.4 % East_German + 90.6 % Georgian" "4.977"
[20,] "89.4 % Georgian + 10.6 % Tatar" "4.9815"
[,1] [,2]
[1,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian" "4.5662"
[2,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Kabardin" "5.5358"
[3,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Ossetian" "5.8061"
[4,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Georgian" "5.8588"
[5,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % North_Ossetian" "6.1029"
[6,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Ossetian" "6.608"
[7,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Kabardin" "6.7171"
[8,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Kumyk" "6.8191"
[9,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Balkar" "6.9726"
[10,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % Ossetian" "7.5299"
[11,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % Balkar" "7.5942"
[12,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % North_Ossetian" "7.6869"
[13,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Adygei" "8.0447"
[14,] "50% % North_Ossetian + 50% % Ossetian" "8.1191"
[15,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Ossetian" "8.1535"
[16,] "50% % Georgian + 50% % Kumyk" "8.1895"
[17,] "50% % Balkar + 50% % North_Ossetian" "8.2664"
[18,] "50% % Adygei + 50% % North_Ossetian" "8.3294"
[19,] "50% % Abhkasian + 50% % Chechen" "9.3455"
[20,] "50% % Kabardin + 50% % Ossetian" "9.4226"

[1] "nMONTE 1"
[1] "distance%=2.9266"

Abhkasian,41.7
North_Ossetian,41.2
Georgian,8
Sardinian,7.5
Lithuanian,0.9
Ossetian,0.4
Dai,0.3

[1] "nMONTE 3"
[1] "distance%=4.2601"

Georgian,51.4
Balkar,42.8
Ossetian,4
Armenian,0.2
Ashkenazi,0.2
Belorussian,0.2
Central_Greek,0.2
Cyprian,0.2
East_Sicilian,0.2
Italian_Abruzzo,0.2
North_Italian,0.2
West_German,0.2

She seems to be much closer to Circassian than Georgian going by that data unless I read it wrong.

[vbnetkhio]

She seems to be much closer to Circassian than Georgian going by that data unless I read it wrong.

not much closer, 7.2926 and 7.405 are pretty much identical fits.
always keep in mind that references might be wrong, maybe that "Georgian" from which her distance is 7 is not typical or is admixed with some other ethnicity.

[asuvis]

not much closer, 7.2926 and 7.405 are pretty much identical fits.
always keep in mind that references might be wrong, maybe that "Georgian" from which her distance is 7 is not typical or is admixed with some other ethnicity.

Is a distance of 7 pretty far away generally speaking? For example I see yours for Serbia is 3.38 in your mdlp k16.

[FinalFlash]

Georgian_Imer on G25 looks completely different to Eurogenes K15 oracle-wise

[vbnetkhio]

Is a distance of 7 pretty far away generally speaking? For example I see yours for Serbia is 3.38 in your mdlp k16.

it kind of is. it usually means there is a reference missing, for example, maybe there should be "West Georgian " and "East Georgian" instead of just Georgian.

or less probably she is actually mixed. does 50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian make sense for her?

[FinalFlash]

it kind of is. it usually means there is a reference missing, for example, maybe there should be "West Georgian " and "East Georgian" instead of just Georgian.

or less probably she is actually mixed. does 50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian make sense for her?

I've been looking for Eastern Georgian kits for a long time for a custom calculator that a friend of mine has worked on. Would you happen to have any kits at your disposal or would you happen to know a source where I can access them?

[asuvis]

Nice results. Btw, your family member is one of few people I have seen who scores similar to me in that I get 3.40% South Central Asian on K36, but like him/her no Siberian or South Asian.

I know, very interesting datapoint :)

[asuvis]

it kind of is. it usually means there is a reference missing, for example, maybe there should be "West Georgian " and "East Georgian" instead of just Georgian.

or less probably she is actually mixed. does 50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian make sense for her?

There are stories of Abkhazian and Mergrelian mixing since we are right next to each other. As well as the age old tale of your long lost German relative. Other than that I don't know much. No history to indicate North Caucasian admixture.

Another point to add to here to is that it is more looking like I'm anywhere from 24-36% West Asian depending on the test on, 23andme, etc., which is a far cry away from what I had expecting going in. Was expecting maybe 43-48%.

[asuvis]

I've been looking for Eastern Georgian kits for a long time for a custom calculator that a friend of mine has worked on. Would you happen to have any kits at your disposal or would you happen to know a source where I can access them?

I am in the process of recruiting a Hereti-area friend to do the 23andme test. Would you be interested in that region? Here is where he was born.

https://i.imgur.com/ncBVE11.png

[Leto]

There are stories of Abkhazian and Mergrelian mixing since we are right next to each other. As well as the age old tale of your long lost German relative. Other than that I don't know much. No history to indicate North Caucasian admixture.

Another point to add to here to is that it is more looking like I'm anywhere from 24-36% West Asian depending on the test on, 23andme, etc., which is a far cry away from what I had expecting going in. Was expecting maybe 43-48%.
You are 40% North Euro on Harappa/Dodecad, that's roughly the average for Balkan Slavs. :)

[asuvis]

it kind of is. it usually means there is a reference missing, for example, maybe there should be "West Georgian " and "East Georgian" instead of just Georgian.

or less probably she is actually mixed. does 50% % Balkar + 50% % Georgian make sense for her?

Through genealogy here is where I found ancestors born of mine going back to 1500's in circled areas.

https://i.imgur.com/yFHKdKD.png

[asuvis]

You are 40% North Euro on Harappa/Dodecad, that's roughly the average for Balkan Slavs. :)

My DNA is so confusing, maybe I am Somali and my family has lied all my life.

[asuvis]

You are 40% North Euro on Harappa/Dodecad, that's roughly the average for Balkan Slavs. :)

Balkan Slavs don't have 25%+ West Asian on 23andme usually though right?

[Leto]

Balkan Slavs don't have 25%+ West Asian on 23andme usually though right?
No, they don't.

You're ethnically mixed but that's basically a monoracial mix (Caucasoid, West Eurasian).

[asuvis]

No, they don't.

You're ethnically mixed but that's basically a monoracial mix (Caucasoid, West Eurasian).

I am smarter in tech than this but essentially what you're saying is that I have little East Eurasian (Asian admixture) and what I do have mixed is essentially north-west Asian DNA + East Europe? Why would it be monoracial if it's West Asian + Balkan & East Euro?

[Leto]

I am smarter in tech than this but essentially what you're saying is that I have little East Eurasian (Asian admixture) and what I do have mixed is essentially north-west Asian DNA + East Europe? Why would it be monoracial if it's West Asian + Balkan & East Euro?
Yes, West Asia and Europe are both broadly Caucasoid or West Eurasian. The Georgians are the purest Caucasians but they are also the closest to Europeans in terms of culture. The North Caucasus has the largest amount of Euro Hunter-Gatherer admixture in the region, particularly Chechnya and Dagestan but culturally they are not European at all. Very Islamic and very archaic clannish society with a high propensity for violence.

[asuvis]

Yes, West Asia and Europe are both broadly Caucasoid or West Eurasian. The Georgians are the purest Caucasians but they are also the closest to Europeans in terms of culture. The North Caucasus has the largest amount of Euro Hunter-Gatherer admixture in the region, particularly Chechnya and Dagestan but culturally they are not European at all. Very Islamic and very archaic clannish society with a high propensity for violence.

I 100% agree with this. I have traveled as far east as Ingushetia in the North Caucasus and it felt very alien at times. So many more social rules for some reason. Though Abkhaz and Circassians are generally more reserved so it felt easier as a foreigner.

[FinalFlash]

I am in the process of recruiting a Hereti-area friend to do the 23andme test. Would you be interested in that region? Here is where he was born.

https://i.imgur.com/ncBVE11.png

If he is native to that region then yes, I would love to see some results.

[asuvis]

If he is native to that region then yes, I would love to see some results.

He is, I will try my best to get it for you.

[Mingle]

Georgian_Imer on G25 looks completely different to Eurogenes K15 oracle-wise

The samples on G25 are often incomplete. Davidski said he couldn't get the coordinates for some academic samples for technical reasons (probably low SNP count) so the average number of samples contained in the G25 average is sometimes pretty low, like only 4-6 samples and if one or a few of those are outliers/borderline outliers, then it'll screw up the average. I don't know what the exact case is for Georgian_Imer though.

[FinalFlash]

The samples on G25 are often incomplete. Davidski said he couldn't get the coordinates for some academic samples for technical reasons (probably low SNP count) so the average number of samples contained in the G25 average is sometimes pretty low, like only 4-6 samples and if one or a few of those are outliers/borderline outliers, then it'll screw up the average. I don't know what the exact case is for Georgian_Imer though.

That makes complete sense. I absolutely love the tool, but I have always been skeptical regarding the quality and size of the samples.

[Mingle]

That makes complete sense. I absolutely love the tool, but I have always been skeptical regarding the quality and size of the samples.

Besides the averages, the individual sample coordinates are also available. So if you want, you can look at what individual sample is good and work with that only.

[harutsafaryan07]

Georgian_Imer on G25 looks completely different to Eurogenes K15 oracle-wiseEurogenes Georgian is Georgian_Megrels

Отправлено с моего DLI-TL20 через Tapatalk

[FinalFlash]

Eurogenes Georgian is Georgian_Megrels

Отправлено с моего DLI-TL20 через Tapatalk

Yeah I know West Georgians are heavily overrepresented on anthrofora. There are lots of Imereti Georgians used in PCA plots as well. Imeretians, Svanetians, Abkhazians, and Megrelians seem to be identical genetically.

[asuvis]

Yeah I know West Georgians are heavily overrepresented on anthrofora

Because we are the best Georgians ;)

[FinalFlash]

Because we are the best Georgians ;)

The East is where it's at. Western Georgians are villagers who immigrated to Tbilisi during the last century :D

[asuvis]

Yeah I know West Georgians are heavily overrepresented on anthrofora. There are lots of Imereti Georgians used in PCA plots as well. Imeretians, Svanetians, Abkhazians, and Megrelians seem to be identical genetically.

Not to be a name nazi but it's Svans, like Swans. In Georgian it's სვანი (Svani), in contrast to მარგალი and მეგრელები for Megrelebi's. I have a feeling Adjarans and Laz pull towards Turkey genetically I think too, though I may be wrong.

[FinalFlash]

Not to be a name nazi but it's Svans, like Swans. In Georgian it's სვანი (Svani), in contrast to მარგალი and მეგრელები for Megrelebi's. I have a feeling Adjarans and Laz pull towards Turkey genetically I think too, though I may be wrong.

I'm not too sure about Ajarians but Laz show up in my Armenian_East oracle at a distance of less than 10. They seem to be identical to Meskhetian "Turks" autosomal DNA-wise, and likely to East Georgia too. Interesting, you guys have that "w" pronunciation?

[asuvis]

I'm not too sure about Ajarians but Laz show up in my Armenian_East oracle at a distance of less than 10. They seem to be identical to Meskhetian "Turks" autosomal DNA-wise, and likely to East Georgia too. Interesting, you guys have that "w" pronunciation?

Oh no sorry I meant just a word like it :), you would actually just say Svans. Georgian is said like how it is read, not like english where sometimes it's different than words spelled. It is interesting with the Laz. Though I don't think they would be close to East Georgians. My guess would be east are closer to Persia while Laz are closer to Turks Anatolia. Though I am no expert in DNA. And We don't consider Armenians "real original" Caucasus so that is another thing as well. They are more Anatolia.

[FinalFlash]

Oh no sorry I meant just a word like it :), you would actually just say Svans. Georgian is said like how it is read, not like english where sometimes it's different than words spelled. It is interesting with the Laz. Though I don't think they would be close to East Georgians. My guess would be east are closer to Persia while Laz are closer to Turks Anatolia. Though I am no expert in DNA. And We don't consider Armenians "real original" Caucasus so that is another thing as well. They are more Anatolia.

[1,] "Georgian_Laz" "0"
[2,] "Turkish_Trabzon" "4.3274"
[3,] "Turk_Meskhetian" "4.6531"
[4,] "Turk_East" "6.5818"
[5,] "Armenian_East" "9.1589"
[6,] "Greek_Trabzon" "9.5939"
[7,] "Armenian_West" "11.6612"
[8,] "Kurd" "13.9126"
[9,] "Georgian" "14.0925"
[10,] "Kurd_Armenia" "15.3308"
[11,] "Azerbaijani" "16.0145"
[12,] "Azeri_Dagestan" "16.9255"
[13,] "Abhkasian" "17.1979"
[14,] "Iranian_Lur" "17.4916"
[15,] "Georgian_Jewish" "17.5205"
[16,] "Turkish_Kayseri" "17.6408"
[17,] "Iranian_Mazandarani" "17.7349"
[18,] "Assyrian" "19.3973"
[19,] "Adygei" "19.8954"
[20,] "Iranian_Persian" "20.1749"


[1,] "Georgian_Laz" "0"
[2,] "76.7% Turkish_Trabzon + 23.3% Georgian" "0.6663"
[3,] "19.8% Abhkasian + 80.2% Turkish_Trabzon" "0.9035"
[4,] "52% Turkish_Trabzon + 48% Turk_Meskhetian" "1.3285"
[5,] "84% Turkish_Trabzon + 16% Ossetian" "1.5355"
[6,] "85.2% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.8% North_Ossetian" "1.7695"
[7,] "16.5% Adygei + 83.5% Turkish_Trabzon" "1.8308"
[8,] "87.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.9% Chechen" "2.0868"
[9,] "85.5% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.5% Balkar" "2.1764"
[10,] "35.4% Abhkasian + 64.6% Greek_Trabzon" "2.2609"
[11,] "86.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 13.9% Kabardin" "2.3033"
[12,] "86.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 13.9% Kabardin" "2.3113"
[13,] "87.7% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.3% Lezgin" "2.5682"
[14,] "87.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.9% Kumyk" "2.5785"
[15,] "89.5% Turkish_Trabzon + 10.5% Tabassaran" "2.7412"
[16,] "27.8% Greek_Trabzon + 72.2% Turk_Meskhetian" "3.0627"
[17,] "39.9% Abhkasian + 60.1% Armenian_West" "3.0739"
[18,] "60.2% Greek_Trabzon + 39.8% Georgian" "3.1355"
[19,] "85.4% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.6% Azeri_Dagestan" "3.2579"
[20,] "65% Abhkasian + 35% Greek_Cypriot"


Keep in mind that I haven't updated Western and Eastern Georgian samples into this calc and I don't have a Greek Central Anatolia reference either. Laz seem to be southern-shifted Kartvelians and would likely get Adjarians and Eastern Georgians as close matches.

[asuvis]

[1,] "Georgian_Laz" "0"
[2,] "Turkish_Trabzon" "4.3274"
[3,] "Turk_Meskhetian" "4.6531"
[4,] "Turk_East" "6.5818"
[5,] "Armenian_East" "9.1589"
[6,] "Greek_Trabzon" "9.5939"
[7,] "Armenian_West" "11.6612"
[8,] "Kurd" "13.9126"
[9,] "Georgian" "14.0925"
[10,] "Kurd_Armenia" "15.3308"
[11,] "Azerbaijani" "16.0145"
[12,] "Azeri_Dagestan" "16.9255"
[13,] "Abhkasian" "17.1979"
[14,] "Iranian_Lur" "17.4916"
[15,] "Georgian_Jewish" "17.5205"
[16,] "Turkish_Kayseri" "17.6408"
[17,] "Iranian_Mazandarani" "17.7349"
[18,] "Assyrian" "19.3973"
[19,] "Adygei" "19.8954"
[20,] "Iranian_Persian" "20.1749"


[1,] "Georgian_Laz" "0"
[2,] "76.7% Turkish_Trabzon + 23.3% Georgian" "0.6663"
[3,] "19.8% Abhkasian + 80.2% Turkish_Trabzon" "0.9035"
[4,] "52% Turkish_Trabzon + 48% Turk_Meskhetian" "1.3285"
[5,] "84% Turkish_Trabzon + 16% Ossetian" "1.5355"
[6,] "85.2% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.8% North_Ossetian" "1.7695"
[7,] "16.5% Adygei + 83.5% Turkish_Trabzon" "1.8308"
[8,] "87.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.9% Chechen" "2.0868"
[9,] "85.5% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.5% Balkar" "2.1764"
[10,] "35.4% Abhkasian + 64.6% Greek_Trabzon" "2.2609"
[11,] "86.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 13.9% Kabardin" "2.3033"
[12,] "86.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 13.9% Kabardin" "2.3113"
[13,] "87.7% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.3% Lezgin" "2.5682"
[14,] "87.1% Turkish_Trabzon + 12.9% Kumyk" "2.5785"
[15,] "89.5% Turkish_Trabzon + 10.5% Tabassaran" "2.7412"
[16,] "27.8% Greek_Trabzon + 72.2% Turk_Meskhetian" "3.0627"
[17,] "39.9% Abhkasian + 60.1% Armenian_West" "3.0739"
[18,] "60.2% Greek_Trabzon + 39.8% Georgian" "3.1355"
[19,] "85.4% Turkish_Trabzon + 14.6% Azeri_Dagestan" "3.2579"
[20,] "65% Abhkasian + 35% Greek_Cypriot"


Keep in mind that I haven't updated Western and Eastern Georgian samples into this calc and I don't have a Greek Central Anatolia reference either. Laz seem to be southern-shifted Kartvelians and would likely get Adjarians and Eastern Georgians as close matches.

Nice data, thank you. You have a good point now looking at it.

[FinalFlash]

Nice data, thank you. You have a good point now looking at it.

No worries. I hate how Georgians are over represented by Western Geos lol. We need to Kakhetians, Kartli, Adjarians and Laz into this mix.

[asuvis]

No worries. I hate how Georgians are over represented by Western Geos lol. We need to Kakhetians, Kartli, Adjarians and Laz into this mix.

I will try my best to get the Hereti friend. I also know a Tush but that might take some convincing, when I go up into the mountains again I will talk with him. That would be an interesting gedmatch kit, might be closer to a Nakh than a Georgian. Sadly my group is over studied, though we are cool so hey I am fine with that.

[asuvis]

No worries. I hate how Georgians are over represented by Western Geos lol. We need to Kakhetians, Kartli, Adjarians and Laz into this mix.

I just realized you would not know what a Tush is, they live here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusheti

[FinalFlash]

I just realized you would not know what a Tush is, they live here

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tusheti

What's up with the Armenian wheel of eternity symbol in your pic btw?

[asuvis]

What's up with the Armenian wheel of eternity symbol in your pic btw?

It is ours as well. Here is a wikipedia article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borjgali

I am very nice and you aren't a Caucasian so everything is okay. But I would recommend you not say that to a Georgian ever, they will not beat you up but be ready for some anger calling that an only armenian thing.

[FinalFlash]

It is ours as well. Here is a wikipedia article about it:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Borjgali

I am very nice and you aren't a Caucasian so everything is okay. But I would recommend you not say that to a Georgian ever, they will not beat you up but be ready for some anger calling that an only armenian thing.

It's ok, I am well aware of the Armenian cultural contributions in Georgia and if I am to be brutally honest, being "Caucasian" is a significant downgrade from being Armenian. And to be even more honest, I don't mind Georgians and Armenians sharing many things. We love khachapuri, you have Armenian style churches etc. They don't call us Giorgio Armani for no reason(nobody really calls us that though :D)

[asuvis]

It's ok, I am well aware of the Armenian cultural contributions in Georgia and if I am to be brutally honest, being "Caucasian" is a significant downgrade from being Armenian. And to be even more honest, I don't mind Georgians and Armenians sharing many things. We love khachapuri, you have Armenian style churches etc. They don't call us Giorgio Armani for no reason(nobody really calls us that though :D)

At least we can agree on khachapuri ;) . It sounds like you are Armenian to me? You know more than you say, FinalFlash. And yes, nobody calls us that sadly. Though I would rather be friends with Armenia than Azeri's but I guess life is what it is.

[FinalFlash]

At least we can agree on khachapuri ;) . It sounds like you are Armenian to me? You know more than you say, FinalFlash. And yes, nobody calls us that sadly. Though I would rather be friends with Armenia than Azeri's but I guess life is what it is.

Ayo hargelis. Yes Hay em. ;). Why Armenia over Azerbaijan? Closer culturally? Historically? Genetically? What's the deal there?

[asuvis]

Ayo hargelis. Yes Hay em. ;). Why Armenia over Azerbaijan? Closer culturally? Historically? Genetically? What's the deal there?

Azeri's are like a stew of 20 different things and can't decide what they are while claiming everything is there's. One day I would not be surprised if I heard Azerbaijan claimed Tbilisi as a historical Albanian settlement. We are the two orthodox nations in a sea of Muslim countries, should stand together a bit. I don't understand the scare some of you have over us and Lori region and I don't understand Armenians helping Abkhaz but we trust you more than the others.

Also Georgians and Armenians have lived together for 100's of years. Tbilisi was once more Armenian than Georgian. We can not say we have the same bond with Azeri's even though Armenians's sometimes exaggerate their influence.

PS: Georgia nature is still better, I do love Tatev though.

[asuvis]

Dafuq happened.

[asuvis]

Ayo hargelis. Yes Hay em. ;). Why Armenia over Azerbaijan? Closer culturally? Historically? Genetically? What's the deal there?

I don't know why it posted 3 times. Oh well

[FinalFlash]

Azeri's are like a stew of 20 different things and can't decide what they are while claiming everything is there's. One day I would not be surprised if I heard Azerbaijan claimed Tbilisi as a historical Albanian settlement. We are the two orthodox nations in a sea of Muslim countries, should stand together a bit. I don't understand the scare some of you have over us and Lori region and I don't understand Armenians helping Abkhaz but we trust you more than the others.

Also Georgians and Armenians have lived together for 100's of years. Tbilisi was once more Armenian than Georgian. We can not say we have the same bond with Azeri's even though Armenians's sometimes exaggerate their influence.

PS: Georgia nature is still better, I do love Tatev though.

Azerbaijan is a Bolshevik project. They know it, and so do we hence why they make stuff up as they go along. It's not hard to figure out. We don't fear you because you are vulnerable like we are. We are only wary of your political leaders and how potentially detrimental is can be for us. Turkey and Azerbaijan are actively trying to make inroads to absorb Georgia just like they did with a large part of Armenia. As far as Lori is concerned, I think that it is part of us. Sure, historically it has switched hands a zillion times like every inch of soil in our region but ultimately, the tiebreaker should go to the oldest ;). The Armenians who helped the Abkhaz(Western Georgians) have simply acted alone and are separate from the Republic of Armenia. Rest assured that the Armenian government would never sanction such a move as to deploy Armenian army servicemen to fight against Georgia. I consider our relationship to be like friendly(not hostile) rivals ie who did who first, who fucked who harder etc. You are correct about Tbilisi though. It was a majority Armenian city up until the late 1800s/early 1900s in terms of population so some influence is certainly there. Georgian nature is indeed better but Armenia's isn't too bad either. It's certainly better than our neighbors barring you guys of course. All in all, I find Georgia to be our closest neighbor in a historic and cultural sense: Christians in a sea of muslims, oldest nations in the region, often times friend than foe, cultural interactions, shared Russian influence etc.