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Ymyyakhtakh
11-19-2019, 11:37 PM
I was wondering which of the republics of European Russia might be seen as part of Northern Europe, if for example Northern Europe is considered to consist of anything as north as the Nordic countries and the Baltic states. I also wanted to know if for example Finland or Norway is further north, or if Komi Republic or the Republic of Karelia is further north.

At first I made the list below of the latitude of the geographical center point (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre) of different European countries and regions based on Wikipedia and other sources. However different sources utilize different methods to calculate the geographical center point, and I did not find information about the center point of some countries.

64.18: Finland (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leskelä_(Siikalatva), unsure if islands are included)
63.99: Norway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_Norway, islands included, overseas areas of Svalbard and Jan Mayen not included)
62.39: Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_center_of_Sweden, utilized imprecise method of measurement)
58.71: Estonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adavere, coordinates based on the location of a village)
57.82: Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_Scotland, islands included)
55.30: Lithuania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruoščiai, coordinates based on the location of a village)
54.61: Northern Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_points_of_the_United_Kingdom#Northern_Irela nd)
53.50: Republic of Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre_of_Ireland)
52.56: England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_points_of_the_United_Kingdom#England)
52.33: Wales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cwmystwyth, coordinates based on the location of a village)

However I then realized that if you simply search for the name of a country on Google Maps, the coordinates returned correspond roughly to the geographical center point of the country. I then searched for the name of different countries and regions on Google Maps, and I made the following list of the latitude returned:

67.90: Nenets Autonomous Okrug
64.62: Finland (error .44)
64.59: Iceland
63.60: Republic of Karelia
63.53: Komi Republic
63.48: Norway (error .51)
61.89: Faroe Islands
61.74: Sweden (error .63)
60.26: Åland Islands
58.54: Estonia (error .17)
57.67: Scotland (error .15)
57.18: Udmurtia
56.88: Latvia
56.56: Mari El
56.15: Denmark
55.47: Chuvashia
55.24: Tatarstan
55.09: Lithuania (error .11)
54.66: Northern Ireland (error .05)
54.40: Mordovia
54.23: United Kingdom
53.97: Bashkortostan
53.63: Belarus
53.36: Republic of Ireland (error .14)
52.75: England (error .16)
52.38: Wales (error .05)
52.19: Netherlands

On the list above, you can see that the error compared to the first list in this post is .2 or less in the case of all countries and regions except Finland, Norway, and Sweden (which might be because of the elongated shape of all three countries).

Based on the list above, if the countries and regions whose center point is equal or higher than Lithuania's are considered to be part of Northern Europe, then Scotland, Udmurtia, Mari El, Chuvashia, and Tatarstan would be part of Northern Europe, but Northern Ireland, Mordovia, and Bashkortostan would not.

Based on the list above, 4 out of 5 of the northernmost countries and autonomous regions of Europe are part of the Uralic domain.

Out of the first 20 countries and autonomous regions on the list above, the language of the primary ethnicity historically associated with the country or region (which is no longer the majority ethnicity in the case of many regions) belongs to the following language families:

Uralic: 8 (Nenets Autonomous Okrug, Finland, Republic of Karelia, Komi Republic, Estonia, Udmurtia, Mari El, Mordovia)
Germanic: 6 (Iceland, Norway, Faroe Islands, Sweden, Åland Islands, Denmark)
Baltic: 2 (Latvia, Lithuania)
Celtic: 2 (Scotland, Northern Ireland)
Turkic: 2 (Chuvashia, Tatarstan)

Salty Ears
11-25-2019, 09:02 AM
Not shure that Nenets okrug will exist in the future. In soviet times that okrugs were created for ethnical minorities, now when Russia slowly but inexorably transforming from federation to unitarian state, okrugs just an administrative atavism. It will be railway to Naryan-Mar and soon Nenets okrug just an average russian region not the country, like it was with Komi-permyak okrug (now part of Perm krai) or some mongol okrugs in the east of Russia. Same with Udmurtia and Tatarstan. Here we have open discussions about unification of Udmurtia and Perm Krai and unification of Volga regions around Kazan.

Laag
11-25-2019, 11:47 AM
In Russia there is such a thing as the Russian North.

Google translate from Russian Wikipedia.

The concept of the Russian North has no established definition. Belonging of a region to the Russian North is not generally accepted. "Russian North" is a historical and cultural concept rather than a geographical or administrative one.

Currently, the territory of the Russian North is usually determined by the boundaries of the Republic of Karelia, Arkhangelsk region, Komi Republic, Nenets Autonomous district, the region, the coast of the White sea and the Barents sea, on the West by the Belozersk district, the river basin of the Sheksna (including North-West, Yaroslavl region — the so-called poshekhon'e), lower reaches of the Mologa, in the East river basin of the Northern Dvina, Pinega, Mezen, Pechora, Vychegda and the southern border of the Vologda region[2]. In the past, the Russian North included Vyatka land (Kirov region), as well as the Perm region, now belonging to the Urals[3]. According to the same geographical journalist I. Buyanovsky, a full-fledged Russian North can be considered and the Northern part of the Nizhny Novgorod region.St. Petersburg and Leningrad region are not considered to be the Russian North. This is due to cultural reasons: St. Petersburg is the embodiment of the Western principle in Russian culture and history. However, a number of opinions[3] there is reason to attribute to the Russian North, the districts of the Leningrad region East of the Volkhov and North of the railway line Volkhovstroy — Vologda, including the city of Tikhvin as a territory, preserving a certain cultural field (Russian wooden architecture, etc.) applicable to the concept of "Russian North".

From a cultural-historical point of view, to the Russian North is also the historic settlement of Lal'sk (city until 1927) the area (Gora, Oparinskaya and Gora areas, transferred to the Kirov region only in 1941), since its inception, closely associated with the Great Ustyug and until the mid XX century continuously part of all territorial entities, which were Vologda (Vologda region, Vologda province), Arkhangelsk (Arkhangelsk province, Northern region, Northern region, Arkhangelsk oblast), or Veliky Ustyug (North Dvina province).

There is also such a thing as the middle band of Russia. The middle band of Russia is a conditional term that defines the Central European part of Russia. The Northern regions of this band include Tver, Yaroslavl and Kostroma regions.

These concepts can be used to define different administrative or economic boundaries in Russia.
For example the Komi Republic, Karelia and the Nenets Autonomous Okrug include in Northwestern Federal District.
https://previews.123rf.com/images/pablofdezr/pablofdezr1505/pablofdezr150500029/40594000-map-of-the-federal-districts-of-russia.jpg
Or in Northern Economic Region
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/2c/Northern_economic_region.png

While Yaroslavl, Tver and Kostroma regions are included in the Central Federal District and Central economic region.

Salty Ears
11-25-2019, 04:30 PM
Northern Russia is a territory where northern branch of ethnic Russians living. Also it is historical territory of Northern Rus'. Solikamsk, Cherdyn in Perm krai originally Northern Rus' towns, also ethnic russians here descendants of resettlers of 18-19 century from Arkhangelsk, Vologda, Vyatka, Nizhniy Novgorod region mostly (northern and middle russians). Basicly we have and ural, and northern identity here.

Laag
11-25-2019, 05:03 PM
United Nations geoscheme subregions of Europe:
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Iceland
Ireland
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Sweden
United Kingdom
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoscheme.svg/220px-Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoscheme.svg.png

In accordance with this division, such regions as Pskov, Novgorod, Smolensk, Tver, Moscow, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod oblast, Perm Krai, Kirov oblast, Tatarstan, Udmurtia and Mari El also could fall into Northern Europe.

Ymyyakhtakh
11-25-2019, 08:16 PM
Here is also the latitude of the center of population (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Center_of_population) of different European countries listed by Wikipedia (based on various sources):

61.2 Finland (in Southwestern Finland, only about 100 km north of Helsinki)
59.4 Estonia (in a suburb of Tallinn, extremely far north)
58.9 Sweden
56.6 Russia (near Izhevsk)
53.3 Republic of Ireland
51.1 Germany (close to the geographical center point of Germany)
52.7 United Kingdom (a bit north of Birmingham, close to the geographical center point of England)

Estonia's center of population is near Tallinn, so it is further north than the center of population of Sweden. The center of population of Russia is surprisingly far north -- probably further north than Denmark's.

The Wikipedia article linked above also features the following map, which is based on data published by Eurostat (https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/web/gisco/geodata/reference-data/population-distribution-demography/geostat):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/a/ae/Center_of_Population_of_European_Countries.png/800px-Center_of_Population_of_European_Countries.png

Here is the latitude of the population center of each country copied from the R code used to generate the map above (https://gist.github.com/cavedave/ed66f1961e144adb14c9898e58b42ff7):

61.139 Finland
59.946 Norway
59.349 Estonia
59.105 Sweden
56.923 Latvia
55.728 Denmark
55.013 Lithuania
53.208 Ireland
52.442 United Kingdom
52.081 Netherlands
51.652 Poland
51.036 Germany
50.86 Belgium
49.96 Czech Republic
48.768 Slovakia
47.97 Austria
47.836 France
47.455 Hungary
47.16 Liechtenstein
47.15 Switzerland
46.143 Slovenia
45.567 Croatia
45.510 Romania
43.679 Italia
42.58 Bulgaria
41.28 Albania
40.389 Spain
39.964 Portugal
38.082 Greece
35.886 Malta

On the list above, Estonia is further north than Sweden, like on the previous list. Denmark is further north than Lithuania. Poland is fairly far south, but still further north than Germany. France is almost as far north as Austria, and further north than Hungary.

The list above is missing Iceland, which would of course rank first. It is also missing Russia, which would using the latitude of 56.6 rank 7th (after Latvia but before Denmark). It is missing Belarus, which would probably rank 10th (after Lithuania but before Ireland). So if Finland is counted as Northeast European, the 10 highest ranking countries would include 6 Northeast European countries and 4 Northwest European countries.

Salty Ears
11-26-2019, 08:29 AM
Of cos' Russia is northern european country by many indicators, not only geography, but culture and mentality too. Dmitry Likhachov considered Russia as skando-byzantine country, i think it is rather good definition.

Ymyyakhtakh
12-16-2019, 06:56 AM
If Northern Europe is defined as the regions of Europe that are further north than the southernmost point of Denmark (latitude 54.56), then the 20 cities of Northern Europe with the largest population (based on population figures listed by Wikipedia) are the following:

(population listed by Wikipedia (millions);latitude returned by Google Maps;city;country or Russian federal subject)
11.92;55.6;Moscow;Moscow
5.28;59.9;Saint Petersburg;Saint Petersburg
1.26;56.3;Nizhny Novgorod;Nizhny Novgorod Oblast
1.23;55.8;Kazan;Tatarstan
1.12;54.8;Ufa;Bashkortostan
1.05;58.0;Perm;Perm Krai
0.97;59.3;Stockholm;Sweden
0.67;59.9;Oslo;Norway
0.65;60.1;Helsinki;Finland
0.63;56.8;Izhevsk;Udmurtia
0.63;57.0;Riga;Latvia
0.61;57.7;Yaroslavl;Yaroslavl Oblast
0.60;55.7;Copenhagen;Denmark
0.60;55.9;Glasgow;Scotland
0.58;57.7;Gothenburg;Sweden
0.54;54.7;Ryazan;Ryazan Oblast
0.54;54.7;Vilnius;Lithuania
0.53;55.7;Naberezhnye Chelny;Tatarstan
0.50;58.6;Kirov;Kirov Oblast
0.49;56.2;Cheboksary;Chuvashia

Izhevsk, Kazan, and Cheboksary (the capitals of Udmurtia, Tatarstan, and Chuvashia) are all more northern than Copenhagen.

Out of the European cities whose latitude returned by Google Maps is 60 or higher, these are the 20 cities with the largest population:

(population listed by Wikipedia (millions);latitude returned by Google Maps;city;country or Russian federal subject)
0.65;60.1;Helsinki;Finland
0.35;64.6;Arhkangelsk;Arkhangelsk Oblast
0.30;69.0;Murmansk;Murmansk Oblast
0.28;61.8;Petrozavodsk;Republic of Karelia
0.27;60.2;Espoo;Finland
0.27;60.4;Bergen;Norway
0.24;61.7;Syktyvkar;Komi Republic
0.23;61.6;Tampere;Finland
0.22;60.3;Vantaa;Finland
0.20;65.2;Oulu;Finland
0.19;64.6;Severodvinsk;Arkhangelsk Oblast
0.19;60.4;Turku;Finland
0.18;63.4;Trondeim;Norway
0.14;62.1;Jyväskylä;Finland
0.12;64.1;Reykjavik;Iceland
0.12;63.0;Kuopio;Finland
0.10;60.7;Gävle;Sweden
0.10;63.6;Ukhta;Komi Republic
0.08;62.6;Joensuu;Finland
0.07;69.7;Tromsø;Norway

The list above is dominated by Finland (9 out of 20 cities), followed by Russia (6 cities, 2 of which are in Komi Republic), Norway (3 cities), Iceland (1 city), and Sweden (1 city). You can see that the population of Finland and Komi Republic are concentrated further north than the population of Sweden or Norway.

Out of the European localities whose latitude returned by Google Maps is above the latitude of the Arctic circle (currently about 66.563 degrees), these 20 have the largest population:

(population listed by Wikipedia;latitude;locality;country or Russian federal subject)
295,374;69.0;Murmansk;Murmansk Oblast
71,580;69.7;Tromsø;Norway
62,945;66.7;Rovaniemi;Finland
56,088;67.5;Vorkuta;Komi Republic
55,713;67.6;Apatity;Murmansk Oblast
52,255;69.1;Severomorsk;Murmansk Oblast
49,731;67.3;Bodø;Norway
42,099;67.9;Monchegorsk;Murmansk Oblast
31,329;67.2;Kandalaksha;Murmansk Oblast
26,581;67.6;Kirovsk;Murmansk Oblast
24,820;68.9;Harstad;Norway
21,658;67.7;Naryan Mar;Nenets Autonomous Okrug
20,847;68.1;Olenegorsk;Murmansk Oblast
20,635;70.0;Alta;Norway
18,705;68.4;Narvik;Norway
18,148;67.8;Kiruna;Sweden
16,623;67.6;Kovdor;Murmansk Oblast
15,037;69.4;Zapolyarny;Murmansk Oblast
14,389;67.4;Poljarnyje Zori;Murmansk Oblast
14,152;68.8;Murmashi;Murmansk Oblast

The list above is dominated by Murmansk Oblast. It is home to several mining towns which are located on the Murmansk-Kandalaksha axis at the base of the Kola Peninsula.

(I know that this forum supports the BBCode syntax for tables, but I think that documents written in natural languages should be written in a plain text syntax like Markdown, so that there would be a standard plain text syntax for formatting constructs like tables, lists, block quotes, italic text, code blocks, code spans, and horizontal rules. Therefore I'm trying to popularize the CSV-style syntax for formatting tables which I have used in this thread.)

Laag
01-15-2020, 04:28 PM
Udmurtia is located at the same latitude as southern Sweden and Latvia. Izhevsk the capital of Udmurtia is located at the same latitude as the capital of Latvia Riga. The distance from Helsinki to Izhevsk is closer than from Helsinki to Sofia 1670 and 1950 km respectively. If Udmurtia were an independent state it would be one of the northernmost European countries.
https://i.imgur.com/3f5VGX9.jpg

Ülev
01-15-2020, 04:31 PM
Izhevsk, the heart of Kalashnikovs

Ülev
01-15-2020, 04:32 PM
United Nations geoscheme subregions of Europe:
Denmark
Estonia
Finland
Iceland
Ireland
Latvia
Lithuania
Norway
Sweden
United Kingdom
https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7a/Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoscheme.svg/220px-Europe_subregion_map_UN_geoscheme.svg.png

In accordance with this division, such regions as Pskov, Novgorod, Smolensk, Tver, Moscow, Yaroslavl, Kostroma, Vladimir, Nizhny Novgorod oblast, Perm Krai, Kirov oblast, Tatarstan, Udmurtia and Mari El also could fall into Northern Europe.

don't like that map, but this is the holy truth

Grace O'Malley
01-15-2020, 04:40 PM
I was wondering which of the republics of European Russia might be seen as part of Northern Europe, if for example Northern Europe is considered to consist of anything as north as the Nordic countries and the Baltic states. I also wanted to know if for example Finland or Norway is further north, or if Komi Republic or the Republic of Karelia is further north.

At first I made the list below of the latitude of the geographical center point (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre) of different European countries and regions based on Wikipedia and other sources. However different sources utilize different methods to calculate the geographical center point, and I did not find information about the center point of some countries.

64.18: Finland (https://fi.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leskelä_(Siikalatva), unsure if islands are included)
63.99: Norway (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_Norway, islands included, overseas areas of Svalbard and Jan Mayen not included)
62.39: Sweden (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_center_of_Sweden, utilized imprecise method of measurement)
58.71: Estonia (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adavere, coordinates based on the location of a village)
57.82: Scotland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_of_Scotland, islands included)
55.30: Lithuania (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ruoščiai, coordinates based on the location of a village)
54.61: Northern Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_points_of_the_United_Kingdom#Northern_Irela nd)
53.50: Republic of Ireland (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geographical_centre_of_Ireland)
52.56: England (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centre_points_of_the_United_Kingdom#England)
52.33: Wales (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cwmystwyth, coordinates based on the location of a village)

However I then realized that if you simply search for the name of a country on Google Maps, the coordinates returned correspond roughly to the geographical center point of the country. I then searched for the name of different countries and regions on Google Maps, and I made the following list of the latitude returned:

67.90: Nenets Autonomous Okrug
64.62: Finland (error .44)
64.59: Iceland
63.60: Republic of Karelia
63.53: Komi Republic
63.48: Norway (error .51)
61.89: Faroe Islands
61.74: Sweden (error .63)
60.26: Åland Islands
58.54: Estonia (error .17)
57.67: Scotland (error .15)
57.18: Udmurtia
56.88: Latvia
56.56: Mari El
56.15: Denmark
55.47: Chuvashia
55.24: Tatarstan
55.09: Lithuania (error .11)
54.66: Northern Ireland (error .05)
54.40: Mordovia
54.23: United Kingdom
53.97: Bashkortostan
53.63: Belarus
53.36: Republic of Ireland (error .14)
52.75: England (error .16)
52.38: Wales (error .05)
52.19: Netherlands

On the list above, you can see that the error compared to the first list in this post is .2 or less in the case of all countries and regions except Finland, Norway, and Sweden (which might be because of the elongated shape of all three countries).

Based on the list above, if the countries and regions whose center point is equal or higher than Lithuania's are considered to be part of Northern Europe, then Scotland, Udmurtia, Mari El, Chuvashia, and Tatarstan would be part of Northern Europe, but Northern Ireland, Mordovia, and Bashkortostan would not.

Based on the list above, 4 out of 5 of the northernmost countries and autonomous regions of Europe are part of the Uralic domain.

Out of the first 20 countries and autonomous regions on the list above, the language of the primary ethnicity historically associated with the country or region (which is no longer the majority ethnicity in the case of many regions) belongs to the following language families:

Uralic: 8 (Nenets Autonomous Okrug, Finland, Republic of Karelia, Komi Republic, Estonia, Udmurtia, Mari El, Mordovia)
Germanic: 6 (Iceland, Norway, Faroe Islands, Sweden, Åland Islands, Denmark)
Baltic: 2 (Latvia, Lithuania)
Celtic: 2 (Scotland, Northern Ireland)
Turkic: 2 (Chuvashia, Tatarstan)

Malin Head in Co Donegal is the most northern part of Ireland. It is in the Irish Republic.

The most northerly point is Inishtrahull Island, situated in the Atlantic Ocean 7 km north of Inishowen Peninsula, county Donegal. It lies at latitude 55.43ºN. Of mainland Ireland, the most northerly point is a headland 2 km northeast of Malin Head, Inishowen Peninsula, county Donegal.

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/geography/extremities.html

Ymyyakhtakh
01-15-2020, 05:27 PM
BTW, I counted Komi Republic as an autonomous region, but I'm not sure if it is still autonomous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komi_Republic): "On 21 March 1996, the Komi Republic signed a power-sharing agreement with the government of Russia, granting it autonomy.[16] The agreement would be abolished on 20 May 2002."


Udmurtia is located at the same latitude as southern Sweden and Latvia. Izhevsk the capital of Udmurtia is located at the same latitude as the capital of Latvia Riga. The distance from Helsinki to Izhevsk is closer than from Helsinki to Sofia 1670 and 1950 km respectively. If Udmurtia were an independent state it would be one of the northernmost European countries.
https://i.imgur.com/3f5VGX9.jpg

Yeah, somehow both Southwest Europe and Southeast Europe are part of Southern Europe, but then Northeast Europe is not part of Northern Europe (?).

Finland is the only country which can be considered to be part of either Northeast Europe or Northwest Europe (even though I prefer to identify as a Northeast European).

Saami territory covers both Northwest Europe and Northeast Europe, and I believe Saami are the only people which can be considered Northeast European but which still primarily lives in regions that cannot be considered to be part of Northeast Europe.

Apart from Finland, I believe there is no other country in Europe which can be considered to be part of two different quadrants of Europe in its entirety, even though the northern parts of France are sometimes included as part of Northwest Europe.


Malin Head in Co Donegal is the most northern part of Ireland. It is in the Irish Republic.

The most northerly point is Inishtrahull Island, situated in the Atlantic Ocean 7 km north of Inishowen Peninsula, county Donegal. It lies at latitude 55.43ºN. Of mainland Ireland, the most northerly point is a headland 2 km northeast of Malin Head, Inishowen Peninsula, county Donegal.

https://www.wesleyjohnston.com/users/ireland/geography/extremities.html

I was also surprised to find that the northernmost point of Scotland (island of Out Stack in Shetland, latitude 60.85) is further north than where I live (Southwest Finland, latitude 60.64).

Lemminkäinen
01-15-2020, 05:37 PM
Only thing that matters is the amount of sun light. Not too much or too little. Birds would not migrate if they could find a perfect place.

Laag
01-15-2020, 06:02 PM
BTW, I counted Komi Republic as an autonomous region, but I'm not sure if it is still autonomous (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Komi_Republic): "On 21 March 1996, the Komi Republic signed a power-sharing agreement with the government of Russia, granting it autonomy.[16] The agreement would be abolished on 20 May 2002."

Yeah, somehow both Southwest Europe and Southeast Europe are part of Southern Europe, but then Northeast Europe is not part of Northern Europe (?).



In the geographical sense Northeast Europe is Northern Europe for sure.

Ymyyakhtakh
01-15-2020, 07:42 PM
Northeast Europe is the most mysterious quadrant of Europe that no-one knows about.

Number of Google hits for each quadrant of Europe (in quotation marks):

"northwest europe": 767,000
"northeast europe": 55,400
"southwest europe": 151,000
"southeast europe": 1,930,000

"northwestern europe": 821,000
"northeastern europe": 114,000
"southwestern europe": 358,000
"southeastern europe": 1,830,000

Laag
01-15-2020, 08:24 PM
I have seen this term "Northeast Europe" in some ethnographic books. The ethnographer Zherebcov used this term in relation to the territories where Russians of Russian North, Komi and Nenets people live.
Carleton Coon used the term "Northeast European" to indicate the phenotype.
https://i.imgur.com/IwkZEKo.png
Udmurtia also is Northeast Europe and Uralische type is indigenous phenotype for Northeast Europe.

Laag
02-02-2020, 04:51 PM
The land of Komi-Permyaks Komi-Permyak Okrug is located in Northern Europe. Kudymkar the administrative center of Komi-Permyak Okrug is located approximately on the same latitude as Stockholm: Kudymkar 59,0 and Stockholm 59,3
https://i.imgur.com/VthWEUb.jpg

Ymyyakhtakh
02-02-2020, 05:08 PM
The land of Komi-Permyaks Komi-Permyak Okrug is located in Northern Europe.

Yeah but I didn't count it because it's no longer a federal subject of Russia (RIP Permyakia). However Komi-Permyaks still made up a majority of the population (59%) in the 2002 census.

https://i.imgur.com/RKT6Ub2.jpg


Kudymkar the administrative center of Komi-Permyak Okrug is located approximately on the same latitude as Stockholm: Kudymkar 59,0 and Stockholm 59,3

Also the center of population of Sweden is south of Stockholm at about latitude 59.1 (https://gist.github.com/cavedave/ed66f1961e144adb14c9898e58b42ff7). The center of population of Komi-Permyak Okrug must be further north, because Kudymkar is near the southern border of Komi-Permyak Okrug.

Salty Ears
02-02-2020, 06:08 PM
The center of population of Komi-Permyak Okrug must be further north, because Kudymkar is near the southern border of Komi-Permyak Okrug.

Kudymkar and Kudymkar district has the highest population density. While the geographical center of okrug - Yurla district is an ethnic russian exclave. By the way okrug have the special status within of Perm krai, while Perm krai dont have any special status in Russia. It is soviet atavism, for example tatar-bashkir Barda district have only cultural autonomy, Udmurts and Mari in Perm krai dont have it at all.

Laag
02-11-2020, 06:48 AM
Kudymkar and Kudymkar district has the highest population density. While the geographical center of okrug - Yurla district is an ethnic russian exclave. By the way okrug have the special status within of Perm krai, while Perm krai dont have any special status in Russia. It is soviet atavism, for example tatar-bashkir Barda district have only cultural autonomy, Udmurts and Mari in Perm krai dont have it at all.

According to the Russian Constitution, the Russian Federation consists of republics, krais, oblasts, cities of federal importance, an autonomous oblast and autonomous okrugs, all of which are equal subjects of the Russian Federation.
From 1993 to 2005, the Komi-Permyak Okrug was a subject of the Russian Federation (Komi-Permyak Autonomous Okrug) that is it had the same status as the Perm Krai or any other subject of the Russian Federation.
Today even if Komi-Permyak Okrug has a special status within the Perm Krai it is not the same as a subject of the Russian Federation.
Also Tatars, Bashkirs, Mari and others already have their own national formations within the Russian Federation and those are subjects of the Russian Federation (Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Mari El). The Komi-Permyaks have only Komi-Permyak Okrug.

Salty Ears
02-11-2020, 12:59 PM
According to the Russian Constitution, the Russian Federation consists of republics, krais, oblasts, cities of federal importance, an autonomous oblast and autonomous okrugs, all of which are equal subjects of the Russian Federation.
From 1993 to 2005, the Komi-Permyak Okrug was a subject of the Russian Federation (Komi-Permyak Autonomous Okrug) that is it had the same status as the Perm Krai or any other subject of the Russian Federation.
Today even if Komi-Permyak Okrug has a special status within the Perm Krai it is not the same as a subject of the Russian Federation.
Also Tatars, Bashkirs, Mari and others already have their own national formations within the Russian Federation and those are subjects of the Russian Federation (Tatarstan, Bashkortostan, Mari El). The Komi-Permyaks have only Komi-Permyak Okrug.

Well, I wrote that Komi-Permyak Okrug have special status in Perm Krai, not on federal level as separate subject. That means that we have Ministry of Komi-Permyak Okrug Affairs in Perm Krai administration but we dont have such for other areas. All the subjects are equal only on the paper while in reality it is big difference between Chechnya and Kostroma, Omsk and Tatarstan, difference that often was artificially created. I hope with new Constitution this problem would be solved.

Lemminkäinen
02-11-2020, 02:17 PM
The earth is round and countries can be in neighborhood or not. If they live near each other, they have common things. Finland has little common with Alaska and more common with Sweden. All three locate between same latitudes. Weather also can connect, not only distance. Generally speaking, in Northern Europe in influence of the Gulf Stream the weather is mild. In Asia and America, much more to south, winters are colder, although summers can be warmer. What does this try to prove? Only that statistics based on latitudes tell something, but in practice not very much.

Ymyyakhtakh
02-13-2020, 02:15 PM
Ok, here's a list of the yearly average temperature in different Northern European capital cities (based on data listed by Wikipedia):

(yearly average temperature;city)
-3.1;Naryan-Mar (Nenets Autonomous Okrug)
-2.3;Kárášjohka (Sápmi)
1.3;Syktyvkar (Komi Republic)
1.7;Kudymkar (Komi-Permyak Okrug)
3.0;Izhevsk (Udmurtia)
3.1;Petrozavodsk (Republic of Karelia)
3.2;Yoshkar-Ola (Mari El)
3.8;Ufa (Bashkortostan)
4.3;Cheboksary (Chuvashia)
4.6;Kazan (Tatarstan)
4.7;Reykjavik
5.3;Saransk (Mordovia)
5.7;Mariehamn (Åland Islands)
5.8;Moscow
5.9;Helsinki
5.9;Tallinn
6.1;Riga
6.7;Vilnius
6.8;Oslo
6.8;Tórshavn (Faroe Islands)
7.6;Stockholm
9.1;Copenhagen
9.3;Edinburgh

Surprisingly even Ufa is colder than Reykjavik. And Saransk is colder than Helsinki.

The 7 highest-ranking cities are all part of historically Uralic regions, and the next 3 highest-ranking cities are part of historically Turkic regions. The first IE city is Reykjavik, at position 11.

Salty Ears
02-18-2020, 07:23 AM
Ok, here's a list of the yearly average temperature in different Northern European capital cities (based on data listed by Wikipedia):

(yearly average temperature;city)
-3.1;Naryan-Mar (Nenets Autonomous Okrug)
-2.3;Kárášjohka (Sápmi)
1.3;Syktyvkar (Komi Republic)
1.7;Kudymkar (Komi-Permyak Okrug)
3.0;Izhevsk (Udmurtia)
3.1;Petrozavodsk (Republic of Karelia)
3.2;Yoshkar-Ola (Mari El)
3.8;Ufa (Bashkortostan)
4.3;Cheboksary (Chuvashia)
4.6;Kazan (Tatarstan)
4.7;Reykjavik
5.3;Saransk (Mordovia)
5.7;Mariehamn (Åland Islands)
5.8;Moscow
5.9;Helsinki
5.9;Tallinn
6.1;Riga
6.7;Vilnius
6.8;Oslo
6.8;Tórshavn (Faroe Islands)
7.6;Stockholm
9.1;Copenhagen
9.3;Edinburgh

Surprisingly even Ufa is colder than Reykjavik. And Saransk is colder than Helsinki.

The 7 highest-ranking cities are all part of historically Uralic regions, and the next 3 highest-ranking cities are part of historically Turkic regions. The first IE city is Reykjavik, at position 11.

Aurora Borealis (Northern Lights) you can see on the territory of Udmurtia and Perm Krai. On the photo Northern Lights that was seen the Froly settlement near the city of Perm, geographically it is to the north from Izhevsk and to the south from Kudymkar.

https://v-kurse.ru/upload/medialibrary/e6f/e6ff3c4ea0cf275212a046bd95db9834.jpg