Are Serbs and Croats similar (only non yugoslavs and non Balkaners accepted to answer)

[Mortimer]

As neutral observers do you think the serbs and croats are similar? I think they are and bosnians too and montenegrins, of course there are smaller differences but it is like hamburg and munich though. It is still similar thing. Now Feichy hates this and she thinks croats are much more like hungarians and austrians and poles though. Who has complex Feichy or the Serbs who say Croats and Serbs are similar folks? I speak as neutral observer and to make the yugos are similar thing.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?307387-Why-do-Serbs-have-inferiority-complex-towards-Croats

[Incal]

They are basically the same thing divided by religion and recent conflict.

[Duffmannn]

It's like trying to distinguish phenotypically between catholic germans and protestant germans.

[Maintenance]

Yes

[wvwvw]

As much as Slovaks and Czechs are similar, or Ukrainians and Russians, or Spaniards and Italians in latin America.

They are cousins but different ethnic groups.

[Aldaris]

Well, you're asking people who are incompetent to answer in the first place, for the most part. When others see South Slavs as more or less an unified entity, it comes from lack of knowledge, not neutrality or objectivity. I'm guilty of that myself, but you can't blame outsiders for not seeing all the nuance, unless they have particular interest in the region - which most don't.

[TheMaestro]

Imo Croats are closer to Serbs than to Hungarians/Slovaks, but out of CRO/SRB/BiH they are most northern shifted.

[Blondie]

Croats have different religion, different historical orientation and more westernized country than Serbia, but serbs and croats are not far away from each other and there are tons of similarity.

[Dominator]

They are both Yugoslavs for me.

[Jana]

Picture is worth thousand words

https://i.imgur.com/eTtOUcW.png

[Magnolia]

Well they share the same region of Europe ... but at least where I live they are not taken as same people - Serbs are like fire, hot heads, warm hearts....
Croats are more like sea...

When Serbs are discussed usually Albanians are mentioned, or connection to Russia, or Tesla... not Croats (again where I live).

[nittionia]

To say they're not similar is crazy... but I don't think it matters much anyways.

[Jana]

I think the real question is why are some Serbs focused on Croats and not on their neighbours like Romanians, who like them, are genetically closer, and culturally much closer.
There is some complex in play for certain.

Because it's very odd to hate somebody but trying to exeggerate similarities on the other hand. But it had to do with politics of Great Serbia, and Croats were standing as a hurdle to create such dream.
Most Serbs still can't accept the fact Croatia is stand alone country and is here to stay. Well, time to face the reality.

[Ülev]

#teamCroatia

[Cristiano viejo]

IMHO opinion Croatians are more developed people, more decent (not saying Serbians are indecent, they are not), have a point being Catholic, more Europeinized, better in sports (Serbians are good at sports as well).

In real life afaik I only have seen one Croatian girl once. I was with a friend in his store and then a girl entered in the shop and tried to sell her engravings. She was a bit chubby and until she opened the mouth we though she was Spanish. She seemed friendly and talked about Croatia having 1000 islands or something so.

[Östsvensk]

I think Croats feel closer to Germans, because I have seen many Croats describe themselves as Fälisch in their profiles. This type is very German. :p

[Jana]

I think Croats feel closer to Germans, because I have seen many Croats describe themselves as Fälisch in their profiles. This type is very German. :p

Trololol. Faelid is extremely rare in Croatia, and only Croat who has that in profile is me because I really do have such influence.
My mother and especially uncle much more, my uncle is textbook Faelid and I don't think anyone would think he is a Croat (he is only half, but whatever)

Will make a thread about him.

[Jana]

He says that Croats online have OND (Off Nordic Dilemma).

I don't believe in that because I never seen it. Most Croat extreme nationalists are obsessed with dinaric race and autochtonous theories and they are retards.
Can't stand this type of cave nationalists. They probably have high school education only. And many are from diaspora.

[Östsvensk]

Trololol. Faelid is extremely rare in Croatia, and only Croat who has that in profile is me because I really do have such influence.
My mother and especially uncle much more, my uncle is textbook Faelid and I don't think anyone would think he is a Croat (he is only half, but whatever)

Will make a thread about him.

Rogers on ABF was a Croat and used to say that he was Fälisch. But like they say, two can be a coincidence, three is not. :p

[Jana]

Rogers on ABF was a Croat and used to say that he was Fälisch. But like they say, two can be a coincidence, three is not. :p

He was Nordid, and he is from diaspora. You speak quite a lot of BS, because Croat nationalists don't feel close to Germans, they live in their own isolated world and care for little but hating Serbs.
This type is very annoying and uninlighted. I represent modern and urban Croatian nationalists who replace old Ustashe guard with Balkan orientation and send them to history books.

We are self-aware Slavs who are pro-Slavic, and Russofiles are not rare among our ranks.

[Östsvensk]

Does Feiichy look Nordic in your opinion?

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?307184-who-is-more-northern-looking

Not so much ordinary, but she passes and looks more like a Germanic woman than most Slavs including Poles, Bosniaks and Serbs do in my opinion.

[Hajimurad]

Only Shtokavian-speaking Croats have any connection to Serbs, but they are most Serb-haters among Croats (many Ustasha leaders, including Ante Pavelic, were from this group).

[Östsvensk]

It seems that I upset Feiichy with what I wrote, talking about Germanic-looking Croats that could lead to Ustashe connection. As a non-native "neutral" observer to the Balkans, it is important to know where the line is and not to cross it and read up on facts before engaging in the discussion.

My impression is though that Croats are more Western-minded, but this is restricted to diaspora Croats. Those in Sweden are typically fully assimilated, unlike Serbs, Albanians and Bosniaks. I have known Albanians and Bosniaks who did not like Serbs and vice versa, but Croats have never been mentioned really because they are assimilated, I guess. Maybe online though, but most online wars on the Swedish forum Flashback that I have seen are a "Serb" attacking Bosniaks for bowing down to the Turks and being Muslims. He claims that he is a Bosniak who converted to Christianity, but they call him a liar. I also knew a strongly anti-Muslim man in real life who said that he was a Croat (the others too similarly accused him of lying).

[Mortimer]

I think the real question is why are some Serbs focused on Croats and not on their neighbours like Romanians, who like them, are genetically closer, and culturally much closer.
There is some complex in play for certain.

Because it's very odd to hate somebody but trying to exeggerate similarities on the other hand. But it had to do with politics of Great Serbia, and Croats were standing as a hurdle to create such dream.
Most Serbs still can't accept the fact Croatia is stand alone country and is here to stay. Well, time to face the reality.

Romanians dont speak the same language and are not yugoslavs. It is like saying some eastern germans are closer to poles or slovaks then to southern or western germans because of a pca chart or fst distance. I dont think serbs dislike romanians are or are complexed to admitt the similarities. Never heard that before.

[Mortimer]

Those in Sweden are typically fully assimilated, unlike Serbs, Albanians and Bosniaks. I have known Albanians and Bosniaks who did not like Serbs and vice versa, but Croats have never been mentioned really because they are assimilated, I guess.

What does fully assimilate mean? As far as I know diaspora croats are very ultra nationalist, they wave the croat flag and such. And they are not really assimilated maybe because they are white and catholic so they appear as such but they are not really. In austria some complain that turks wave their flag at their weddings and say they created little istanbul, croats and serbs do the same though but no one complains. I think you are not being honest.

[Mingle]

Yeah, but I think the similarities are exaggerated. People often treat them as the same ethnic group cause they speak the same language. But they're still closer to each other than to any other ethnicity (except maybe Bosniaks).

[Mortimer]

Not so much ordinary, but she passes and looks more like a Germanic woman than most Slavs including Poles, Bosniaks and Serbs do in my opinion.

She does but she even posted her serbian look alike. It is not like all croats look like her and all serbs exotic or something.

[Mortimer]

Yeah, but I think the similarities are exaggerated. People often treat them as the same ethnic group cause they speak the same language. But they're still closer to each other than to any other ethnicity (except maybe Bosniaks).

That can be said about every ethnic group though or country. In italy the differences are bigger then between serbs and croats.

[Mingle]

That can be said about every ethnic group though or country. In italy the differences are bigger then between serbs and croats.

Okay, what's your point? I already agreed they're similar. Or do you think they should be considered the same ethnic group?

[Mortimer]

Okay, what's your point? I already agreed they're similar. Or do you think they should be considered the same ethnic group?

Yes I think they should be considered the same ethnic group. There are much more similar then austrians and northern germans to eatch other and those are always considered the same ethnic group. But anyways maybe they shouldnt I dont have a strong opinion but I consider them as such and also bosniaks to me it is a microcosmos you could do that to every nation in europe and even to regions within regions there are differences between northern serbs and eastern serbs too.

[Mingle]

Yes I think they should be considered the same ethnic group. There are much more similar then austrians and northern germans to eatch other and those are always considered the same ethnic group. But anyways maybe they shouldnt I dont have a strong opinion but I consider them as such and also bosniaks to me it is a microcosmos you could do that to every nation in europe and even to regions within regions there are differences between northern serbs and eastern serbs too.

The similarity between Serbs and Macedonians is smaller than that between Venetians and Sicilians. Should Macedonians be considered Serb now? Should Scottish and Irish people be considered ethnic English?



I don't really view Germans and Italians as individual ethnic groups. Ethnicity in those nations is defined based on nationality.

Frisians live in both Germany and the Netherlands. In Germany, they're ethnic German but they're not ethnic German in the Netherlands. Same with Saxons (Low Saxon speakers) who are ethnic German in Germany but not in the Netherlands. And Dutch people aren't considered ethnic German even though some North Germans are closer to the Dutch (linguistically/genetically/culturally) than to some South Germans.

In Italy's Aosta Valley region, the native speech is Arpitan (Franco-Provencal) and the Arpitan-speakers are considered ethnic Italian. Those same people aren't considered ethnic Italian in France or Switzerland's traditional Arpitan-speaking areas.

Basically ethnicity in Germany and Italy is defined on if you are a native person inside the borders of Germany or Italy. So I wouldn't look at their definition as correct as its based on political borders. For me, Austrians are ethnic Bavarians (except in Vorarlberg where they are ethnic Alemannic) whereas those in Germany are a number of different groups (Saxons, Thuringians, etc). I think if Bavarians and Saxons are considered ethnic German, then so should Dutch people otherwise ethnic German is just based on politics.



Now coming back to Serbs and Croats. They were distinct tribes from the beginning. They became similar later through intermingling, but they still stayed separate people. They have different tribal lineages.

The most you could argue is that some Croats aren't really Croat, but "Croatized Serbs" or something, but I don't think you could say that Serbs and Croats aren't distinctive ethnic groups.



So as I said, they're similar, but not the same. As another user said, they're cousins similar to Czechs and Slovaks or Swedes and Danes or the Welsh and the Irish.

[Mortimer]

The similarity between Serbs and Macedonians is smaller than that between Venetians and Sicilians. Should Macedonians be considered Serb now? Should Scottish and Irish people be considered ethnic English?

Macedonians are either serbs or bulgarians. I mean the slavo-macedonians so yes. Some of them are serbs just like montenegrins. But the majority is closer to bulgarians both genetically as well as the language is bulgarian. Macedonians arent really "macedonians" or ancient greeks.



Now coming back to Serbs and Croats. They were distinct tribes from the beginning. They became similar later through intermingling, but they still stayed separate people. They have different tribal lineages.

The most you could argue is that some Croats aren't really Croat, but "Croatized Serbs" or something, but I don't think you could say that Serbs and Croats aren't distinctive ethnic groups.

So as I said, they're similar, but not the same. As another user said, they're cousins similar to Czechs and Slovaks or Swedes and Danes or the Welsh and the Irish.

I think they are closer to eatch other then czechs and slovaks, because czechs and slovaks speak different languages same as welsh and irish. They are more like croats and slovenes or serbs and slovenes the czechs and slovaks. I dont have a horse in the race, Im neutral observer and to me they are same people with different religions. I also dont know if I can trust anthropology on serbs and croats as there is both agenda and bias to portray them as different as possible and maybe by minority as similar as possible. But mostly as different as possible.

[Mingle]

I think they are closer to eatch other then czechs and slovaks, because czechs and slovaks speak different languages same as welsh and irish. They are more like croats and slovenes or serbs and slovenes the czechs and slovaks. I dont have a horse in the race, Im neutral observer and to me they are same people with different religions. I also dont know if I can trust anthropology on serbs and croats as there is both agenda and bias to portray them as different as possible and maybe by minority as similar as possible. But mostly as different as possible.

1. Do you consider Kaikavian-speaking Croats from NW Croatia to be ethnic Slovene (Kaikavian and Slovenian are the same language)?

2. Do you consider Chakavian-speaking Croats to be a distinct ethnicity from Serbs?

3. The Shtokavian-speaking Croats are the Croats that natively speak the same language as Serbs. Are Shtokavian-speaking Croats the only Croats that you consider to be part of the same ethnicity as Serbs?

[Mortimer]

1. Do you consider Kaikavian-speaking Croats from NW Croatia to be ethnic Slovene (Kaikavian and Slovenian are the same language)?

2. Do you consider Chakavian-speaking Croats to be a distinct ethnicity from Serbs?

3. The Shtokavian-speaking Croats are the Croats that natively speak the same language as Serbs. Are Shtokavian-speaking Croats the only Croats that you consider to be part of the same ethnicity as Serbs?

I dont know all those dialects etc. I just know that all croats I met I could easy understand and speak to them. But if there are croats who speak slovenian or similar to slovenian I would consider them different then serbs. Also Im not sure whether croats in bosnia and serbs in bosnia etc. are serbs and croats or "bosnians" and how different they all are etc. Also in voivodina old settler serbs are culturally more similar to some croats and hungarians then to serbs in southern serbia etc.

[Vožd]

I think the real question is why are some Serbs focused on Croats and not on their neighbours like Romanians, who like them, are genetically closer, and culturally much closer.

In Croatia even today exist nazi incidents toward local Krajina Serbs, negative statements about Serbia etc. ofc it will attract attention in Serbia. And nothing like that exist in Romania or Bulgaria.

There is some complex in play for certain.

Because it's very odd to hate somebody but trying to exeggerate similarities on the other hand. But it had to do with politics of Great Serbia, and Croats were standing as a hurdle to create such dream.
Most Serbs still can't accept the fact Croatia is stand alone country and is here to stay. Well, time to face the reality.

Thats only your impression, not reality. If you are refereing on Krajina Serbs, its natural they are focused on today Croatia, because they was expelled from there.

And i think Croats are more obssesed with Serbs than contrary. If you check Croatian news, you will saw almost every day news which including Serbs/Serbia (mostly in negative way), while Croats/Croatia are barely mentioned in Serbian news...

[Mingle]

I dont know all those dialects etc. I just know that all croats I met I could easy understand and speak to them. But if there are croats who speak slovenian or similar to slovenian I would consider them different then serbs. Also Im not sure whether croats in bosnia and serbs in bosnia etc. are serbs and croats or "bosnians" and how different they all are etc. Also in voivodina old settler serbs are culturally more similar to some croats and hungarians then to serbs in southern serbia etc.

There are three main languages in Croatia - Chakavian, Shtokavian, Kaikavian.

Kaikavian is spoken in Northwest Croatia and Slovenia (a dialect of Kaikavian is Slovenia's national language).

Chakavian is spoken in some parts of coastal Croatia.

Shtokavian is spoken in Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, and most of Croatia.

So I was asking do you only consider Shtokavian-speaking Croats to be the same ethnicity as Serbs (because you said you consider them the same ethnicity because they speak the same language)?

[Mortimer]

There are three main languages in Croatia - Chakavian, Shtokavian, Kaikavian.

Kaikavian is spoken in Northwest Croatia and Slovenia (a dialect of Kaikavian is Slovenia's national language).

Chakavian is spoken in some parts of coastal Croatia.

Shtokavian is spoken in Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, and most of Croatia.

So I was asking do you only consider Shtokavian-speaking Croats to be the same ethnicity as Serbs (because you said you consider them the same ethnicity because they speak the same language)?

Maybe it is like pakistan. The pashtuns are iranic speaking while the majority of punjabis are indic speaking. I would consider the punjabis as indic and the pashtuns as iranic. I would consider some croats as different to serbs and more similar to slovenians.

[Mingle]

Maybe it is like pakistan. The pashtuns are iranic speaking while the majority of punjabis are indic speaking. I would consider the punjabis as indic and the pashtuns as iranic.

Its not really the same.

Croats are an ethnic group (similar to Pashtuns) whereas Pakistani is not an ethnic group. Pakistani is more comparable to "Soviet" or "American" or "Yugoslavian". Anybody with Pakistani citizenship is a Pakistani.


I would consider some croats as different to serbs and more similar to slovenians.

So you say some Croats are the same ethnicity as Slovenes and some are the same ethnicity as Serbs?

What about the Chakavian-speaking Croats that speak a different language to both Slovenes and Serbs?

[Dick]

They have different tribal lineages.

Elaborate please.

[Mingle]

Elaborate please.

I was referring to the Slavic tribes that they get their names from.

[Mortimer]

Its not really the same.

Croats are an ethnic group (similar to Pashtuns) whereas Pakistani is not an ethnic group. Pakistani is more comparable to "Soviet" or "American" or "Yugoslavian". Anybody with Pakistani citizenship is a Pakistani.



So you say some Croats are the same ethnicity as Slovenes and some are the same ethnicity as Serbs?

What about the Chakavian-speaking Croats that speak a different language to both Slovenes and Serbs?

I think they are minorities anyways and kinda like vlachs in serbia, there are also latin speaking croats in dalmatia or historically have been before they lost their language. But it is not really important because they are small minorities.

[Dick]

I was referring to the Slavic tribes that they get their names from.

Some have mentioned here before that there were Slavs in the Balkans already(I2-Din) before both tribes came.

[Dilberth]

And i think Croats are more obssesed with Serbs than contrary. If you check Croatian news, you will saw almost every day news which including Serbs/Serbia (mostly in negative way), while Croats/Croatia are barely mentioned in Serbian news...

You must be living in diaspora if you think that is the case. Serbian media is obsessed with Croats, we are mentioned literally everyday in serbian tv shows on televisions with national frequency like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BURrj5FxsRo
There is not a single day Vučić's media don't talk about Croats. And look at that propaganda, it is literally worse than war propaganda you had in 90's.
Not to mention serbian tabloids:

https://www.jutarnji.hr/incoming/naslovnica-vucicjpg/9330932/alternates/LANDSCAPE_880/naslovnica%20vucic.jpg

You are literally worse than north Korea media wise.

[Mingle]

I think they are minorities anyways and kinda like vlachs in serbia, there are also latin speaking croats in dalmatia or historically have been before they lost their language. But it is not really important because they are small minorities.

Almost everyone in Croatia spoke Chakavian or Kaikavian during the Middle Ages. The majority of Croats speaking the same language as Serbs (Shtokavian) is a more recent thing.

Kaikavian-speakers are the majority in NW Croatia while Chakavian-speakers are a small minority, although their numbers used to be much greater in the past. The oldest Croatian text is in Chakavian.

[pulstar]

You must be living in diaspora if you think that is the case. Serbian media is obsessed with Croats, we are mentioned literally everyday in serbian tv shows on televisions with national frequency like this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BURrj5FxsRo
There is not a single day Vučić's media don't talk about Croats. And look at that propaganda, it is literally worse than war propaganda you had in 90's.
Not to mention serbian tabloids:

https://www.jutarnji.hr/incoming/naslovnica-vucicjpg/9330932/alternates/LANDSCAPE_880/naslovnica%20vucic.jpg

You are literally worse than north Korea media wise.
We don't have media, its all cancerous tabloids, but people read that.

[Östsvensk]

What does fully assimilate mean? As far as I know diaspora croats are very ultra nationalist, they wave the croat flag and such. And they are not really assimilated maybe because they are white and catholic so they appear as such but they are not really. In austria some complain that turks wave their flag at their weddings and say they created little istanbul, croats and serbs do the same though but no one complains. I think you are not being honest.

Croats and also many Serbs came earlier (in the 1960s) along with Finns and Italians than Albanians and Bosniaks that I have met in real life who arrived during and after the war in the 1990s. So that might explain it. Also, Serbs that came earlier may be more assimilated and have mixed with Swedes.


Okay, what's your point? I already agreed they're similar. Or do you think they should be considered the same ethnic group?

There are in my opinion a few more Croats that could pass in Germanic countries, but I don't believe that everyone of them does on a universal level. Serbs are a bit darker as in more Dinarid according to what I have seen. I have also known many Bosniak Dinarid or darker types, so not all Bosniaks are as light as they are often depicted on the Internet. On Swedish forums, there are even Bosniaks (and Albanians) who call Serbs terms like wogs or greaseballs, lol. Serbs and Bosniaks are obviously European types nonetheless and I see very little differences between Balkan Slavs. The only difference that I see is religion, while some of them say themselves that there are big genetic differences between them.

[Jana]

Serbo-Gypsy delusions at its finest.

[Jana]

There are three main languages in Croatia - Chakavian, Shtokavian, Kaikavian.

Kaikavian is spoken in Northwest Croatia and Slovenia (a dialect of Kaikavian is Slovenia's national language).

Chakavian is spoken in some parts of coastal Croatia.

Shtokavian is spoken in Serbia, Bosnia-Herzegovina, Montenegro, and most of Croatia.

So I was asking do you only consider Shtokavian-speaking Croats to be the same ethnicity as Serbs (because you said you consider them the same ethnicity because they speak the same language)?

Neo-Stokavian ijekavica is 19th century made language that wasn't spoken in medieval Croatia neither in medieval Serbia. It's reformed language of Dubrovnik and Herzegovina.
You could say both speak variant of BiH language now. Such language was adopted by both during Pan-Slavic ideas and that's pretty much it.

And Torlak speakers in SE Serbia are not Štokavians, it's different language we can't understand and closest to Bulgarian.

[Jana]

I think they are closer to eatch other then czechs and slovaks, because czechs and slovaks speak different languages same as welsh and irish..

We are much further apart than Czechs and Slovaks, Russians or Ukrainians because there is gigantic cultural difference between the 2 that doesn't exist among these people.
And it comes from belonging to two different civilisations -western christian and eastern orthodox.

It's better comparison like between Poles and Belarusians, or Poles and Ukrainians.

Language does not matter than much. Hungarians are linguistically closest to Khanty and Mansi but culturally there is no connection. Romanians are culturally much closer to Bulgarians or Serbs than to other Romance speakers.

[Jana]

The only difference that I see is religion, while some of them say themselves that there are big genetic differences between them.

Dude, you are Swedish. How can you possibly see any difference between Southern Slavs when you don't know anything about them? Do you think average Joe in Croatia sees any difference between Swede and Saami or Swedes and Finns? Not really. Genetically speaking between Croats and Serbs there is a bigger difference some would think.

Our northern neighbours (Slovenes and Magyars) are closest to us.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?308106-Slovenians-and-Hungarians-are-both-closest-to-Croats

Bosnians are between Croats and Montenegrins/Serbs, but also closest to Croats.

[Östsvensk]

Dude, you are Swedish. How can you possibly see any difference between Southern Slavs when you don't know anything about them? Do you think average Joe in Croatia sees any difference between Swede and Saami or Swedes and Finns? Not really. Genetically speaking between Croats and Serbs there is a bigger difference some would think.

Our northern neighbours (Slovenes and Magyars) are closest to us.
https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?308106-Slovenians-and-Hungarians-are-both-closest-to-Croats

Bosnians are between Croats and Montenegrins/Serbs, but also closest to Croats.

Balkan Slavic languages are way closer to each other than Germanic Swedish is to Uralic Finnish...

Well, Rolf Nordenstreng wrote in one of his Swedish books in the 1920s that he considered Croats as more civilised than the "envious" Serbs. He was a Finland-Swede who himself looked down on Finns for being racially different collectivists (as opposed to Swedish individualists) and I believe that he even coined the term East Baltic race.

[Jana]

Balkan Slavic languages are way closer to each other than Germanic Swedish is to Uralic Finnish...

Well, Rolf Nordenstreng wrote in one of his Swedish books in the 1920s that he considered Croats as more civilised than the "envious" Serbs. He was a Finland-Swede who himself looked down on Finns for being racially different collectivists (as opposed to Swedish individualists) and I believe that he even coined the term East Baltic race.

Now. In high medieval we couldn't understand each other well. I don't want to say anything about being better than Serbs but about being different.
It's hard to understand for some as your region is culturally far more homogenous.

SE Europe is place where several civilisations clashed, Catholic and Orthodox, later Islam from Asia, than mediterranean and Germanic world, Greek vs Slavic world, Old Balkan vs Roman...
It's a mish mash of everything. And that's why south slavs have more genetic and cultural diversity than west or east slavs despite living on much smaller territory!

[MustafaTekin]

Same shit, different toilet.

[Jana]

Same shit, different toilet.

Kind of like Turks and Armenians.

[MustafaTekin]

Kind of like Turks and Armenians.

we have different dna, religion, language etc

only eastern turks are close to armenians, and hamshens are close to eastern black sea turks. an average turk is closest to northern caucasians tho.

[Jana]

we have different dna, religion, language etc
only eastern turks are close to armenians, and hamshens are close to eastern black sea turks. an average turk is closest to northern caucasians tho.

We don't see any difference.

[Omanvassal]

We don't see any difference.

Why you disrespect your forefathers? The Turks

[MustafaTekin]

We don't see any difference.

you are not german. embrace your yugoslavian heritage.

[FinalFlash]

Now. In high medieval we couldn't understand each other well. I don't want to say anything about being better than Serbs but about being different.
It's hard to understand for some as your region is culturally far more homogenous.

SE Europe is place where several civilisations clashed, Catholic and Orthodox, later Islam from Asia, than mediterranean and Germanic world, Greek vs Slavic world, Old Balkan vs Roman...
It's a mish mash of everything. And that's why south slavs have more genetic and cultural diversity than west or east slavs despite living on much smaller territory!

Why the switch from Kaykavian to Shtokavian?

[FinalFlash]

Kind of like Turks and Armenians.

Only Eastern and Trabzon Turks have that distinct honor.

[Jana]

you are not german. embrace your yugoslavian heritage.

Lol look at this troll bringing up Germans who have no place in discussion whatsoever. Embrace your sandnigger heritage.

[Jana]

Why the switch from Kaykavian to Shtokavian?

Medieval Croatia used mostly Chakavian, and after than Kajkavian.
Modern language was based on that of Dubovnik Republic, because of prestige Ragusan literature created during renaissance and baroque periods.
And by 19th century most of Croats were already stokavian speaking due to large migrations form Bosnia-Herzegovina.

[MustafaTekin]

Lol look at this troll..

i'm not a troll. i'm probably the only person without an agenda on ta.


.. bringing up Germans who have no place in discussion whatsoever.
that's why you brought up turks and armenians..


Embrace your sandnigger heritage.

enjoy this video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fEvZUL1d-Zk

[Vožd]

There is not a single day Vučić's media don't talk about Croats.

Ok, in Vučić's media, you got me.

But i don't read that trash at all, for obvious reason.

[Jana]

that's why you brought up turks and armenians..

I mentioned them being seen as ''same shit'' by Europeans similary like you see Croats and Serbs. Average Euros don't really know much about you except that you hate/killed each other (mostly Turk Armenians), both are dark west Asian looking and neighbours with territorial disputes. No need to get mad. Same applies for Kurds.

[Omanvassal]

I mentioned them being seen as ''same shit'' by Europeans similary like you see Croats and Serbs. Average Euros don't really know much about you except that you hate/killed each other (mostly Turk Armenians), both are dark west Asian looking and neighbours with territorial disputes. No need to get mad.

Turks and Armenians are more distinct genetically than Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians, Serbs, Montenegrins, Kosovers combined

[Jana]

Turks and Armenians are more distinct genetically than Croats, Slovenes, Macedonians, Serbs, Montenegrins, Kosovers combined


Only Eastern and Trabzon Turks have that distinct honor.

[Pribislav]

Almost everyone in Croatia spoke Chakavian or Kaikavian during the Middle Ages. The majority of Croats speaking the same language as Serbs (Shtokavian) is a more recent thing.

Kaikavian-speakers are the majority in NW Croatia while Chakavian-speakers are a small minority, although their numbers used to be much greater in the past. The oldest Croatian text is in Chakavian.

Only part of present day Croatia where shtokavian was spoken in the middle age is southern Dalmatia. In other parts of modern Croatia shtokavian is imported with migration of Orthodox Serbs, Šokci and Bunjevci in Ottoman time and after Ottomans.

[Sora]

Yes, they're. The only main difference is religious sects. Croats are Catholic, Serbs are Orthodox and Bosniaks are Muslim. Also Serbs use Cyrilic alphabet, while Croats and Bosniaks use Latin alphabet.

[Pribislav]

Neo-Stokavian ijekavica is 19th century made language that wasn't spoken in medieval Croatia neither in medieval Serbia. It's reformed language of Dubrovnik and Herzegovina.
You could say both speak variant of BiH language now. Such language was adopted by both during Pan-Slavic ideas and that's pretty much it.

And Torlak speakers in SE Serbia are not Štokavians, it's different language we can't understand and closest to Bulgarian.

Most of Serbs west of Drina river are native speakers of that dialect. There is little mistake, it's (i)jekavian, not ijekavian. Ijekavian doesn't exist outside of Dubrovnik, Montenegro and Sandžak.
95% of Serbs are native shtokavian speakers, only about 5% are Torlakian speakers. Western Serbia, Vojvodina, western Sandžak and most of Šumadija are neo-shtokavian. Smaller part of Šumadija, Kosovo, Pomoravlje, Župa, eastern Sandžak, Toplica, eastern and part of SE Serbia are old-shtokavian. Only part of SE Serbia is Torlakian, tiny minority even in Serbia, not to mention Serbs as whole.

[Aldaris]

I mentioned them being seen as ''same shit'' by Europeans similary like you see Croats and Serbs. Average Euros don't really know much about you except that you hate/killed each other (mostly Turk Armenians), both are dark west Asian looking and neighbours with territorial disputes. No need to get mad. Same applies for Kurds.

In here, Armenians are considered to belong in some extremely vague category of 'Asian Soviets', while Turks are seen simply as another Arabs, along with Pakistanis or Algerians. Not really the most accurate conception ever, I know.

[Vožd]

Yes, they're. The only main difference is religious sects. Croats are Catholic, Serbs are Orthodox and Bosniaks are Muslim. Also Serbs use Cyrilic alphabet, while Croats and Bosniaks use Latin alphabet.

Serbs use both Cyrilic and Latin. But there is a plenty of differences between Serbs and Croats, not just religion.

[Jana]

Most of Serbs west of Drina river are native speakers of that dialect. There is little mistake, it's (i)jekavian, not ijekavian. Ijekavian doesn't exist outside of Dubrovnik, Montenegro and Sandžak.
95% of Serbs are native shtokavian speakers, only about 5% are Torlakian speakers. Western Serbia, Vojvodina, western Sandžak and most of Šumadija are neo-shtokavian. Smaller part of Šumadija, Kosovo, Pomoravlje, Župa, eastern Sandžak, Toplica, eastern and part of SE Serbia are old-shtokavian. Only part of SE Serbia is Torlakian, tiny minority even in Serbia, not to mention Serbs as whole.

Those Serbs left absolutely nothing of value so we can't know what did they speak.
Only legacy on Štokavian literature is in Dubrovnik, which is sadly for you, not Serb.

[Ford]

Serbs are closer to the Comanche people.

[Pribislav]

Those Serbs left absolutely nothing of value so we can't know what did they speak.
Only legacy on Štokavian literature is in Dubrovnik, which is sadly for you, not Serb.

You native language is chakavian. You took neo-shtokavian, which is language of my ancestors!

Dubrovnik dialect have more similarities with Montenegrin speech than with any Croatians dialect.

[Jana]

You native language is chakavian. You took neo-shtokavian which is language of my ancestors!
Dubrovnik dialect have more similarities with Montenegrin speach than with any Croatians dialect.

True, I am by origin mostly Čakavian Croat. Sadly I don't speak it.

[Pribislav]

True, I am by origin mostly Čakavian Croat. Sadly I don't speak it.

Croatians killed their native language (chakavian) by own will in 19th century when they adopted shtokavian for standard. If you did not adopted shtokavian your claim on BiH Catholics would have less sense, because they are shtokavian speakers as vast majority of Serbs.

Robocop would say "Fuck Bosnian and Herzegovinian Catholics, due to pretension on them we lost our native beautiful Croatian/chakavian language."

[Jana]

Croatians killed their native language (chakavian) by own will in 19th century when they adopted shtokavian for standard. If you did not adopted shtokavian your claim on BiH Catholics would have less sense, because they are shtokavian speakers as vast majority of Serbs.

Robocop would say "Fuck Bosnian and Herzegovinian Catholics, due to pretensios on them we list our native beautiful Croatian/chakavian language."

Why did you kill your Serbo-Church-Slavonic ? :laugh:

[Pribislav]

Why did you kill your Serbo-Church-Slavonic ? :laugh:

Church-Slavonic was language of Serbian Orthodox Church as his name say. Ordinary people never spoke that artificial language.

[Vožd]

Church-Slavonic was language of Serbian Orthodox Church as his name say. Ordinary people never spoke that artificial language.

It was more like pan-Slavic language among Orthodox Slav priests.

[Dušan]

Only part of present day Croatia where shtokavian was spoken in the middle age is southern Dalmatia. In other parts of modern Croatia shtokavian is imported with migration of Orthodox Serbs, Šokci and Bunjevci in Ottoman time and after Ottomans.

+1


Most of Serbs west of Drina river are native speakers of that dialect. There is little mistake, it's (i)jekavian, not ijekavian. Ijekavian doesn't exist outside of Dubrovnik, Montenegro and Sandžak.
95% of Serbs are native shtokavian speakers, only about 5% are Torlakian speakers. Western Serbia, Vojvodina, western Sandžak and most of Šumadija are neo-shtokavian. Smaller part of Šumadija, Kosovo, Pomoravlje, Župa, eastern Sandžak, Toplica, eastern and part of SE Serbia are old-shtokavian. Only part of SE Serbia is Torlakian, tiny minority even in Serbia, not to mention Serbs as whole.

+1


Croatians killed their native language (chakavian) by own will in 19th century when they adopted shtokavian for standard. If you did not adopted shtokavian your claim on BiH Catholics would have less sense, because they are shtokavian speakers as vast majority of Serbs.

Robocop would say "Fuck Bosnian and Herzegovinian Catholics, due to pretensios on them we list our native beautiful Croatian/chakavian language."

+1


Church-Slavonic was language of Serbian Orthodox Church as his name say. Ordinary people never spoke that artificial language.

+1

[Dna8]

They are equivalent to one part of Spain/France/Italy/Germany.

[Dna8]

lol I enjoyed, palpable, sean.

[sean]

Serbs and Bosniaks are obviously European types nonetheless and I see very little differences between Balkan Slavs. The only difference that I see is religion, while some of them say themselves that there are big genetic differences between them.

No wonder why they occupy every another thread on TA arguing how the balkan war should have been fought.

They all have this massive princess complex, and delusion of the average balkanite is palpable.