Aosta Valley more Central European than Provence?

[Token]

The French admixture in Aostans is supposed to be entirely Provençal, so why are they more northern shifted than French Provençal themselves? The only explanation that i could come up with is Walser migrations in the 12th century having a generalized impact in Aosta Valley.

[1] "distance%=1.3438"
Italian_Aosta_Valley

French_Provence,83.2
German,16.8

[Token]

Bump

[Samnium]

Interesting, my father is 1/4 Aostan. Why Aostan appear more southern shifted than Provencals in PCA that I've seen ? Maybe bad samples?

[Token]

Interesting, my father is 1/4 Aostan. Why Aostan appear more southern shifted than Provencals in PCA that I've seen ? Maybe bad samples?
I've never seen any other Aostan sample besides those that were added to G25.

[Samnium]

I've never seen any other Aostan sample besides those that were added to G25.

I've seen some (like 5) in old studies but I doubt that they are representative...

[Token]

I've seen some (like 5) in old studies but I doubt that they are representative...

Anyway, what is your opinion about this weird northern shift? Aostans seems to be basically Central Euros.

[Token]

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.01581018 French_Provence
0.01793196 Italian_Northeast
0.01946763 Swiss_French
0.02068104 French_Auvergne
0.02167271 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02215091 Swiss_German
0.02341801 French_Alsace
0.02380134 Italian_Veneto
0.02382364 French_Occitanie
0.02538728 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02580515 French_Nord
0.02666308 Spanish_Penedes
0.02821902 Spanish_Girona
0.02823975 French_Paris
0.02941715 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02975291 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02990567 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03047081 Spanish_Baleares
0.03057746 Belgian
0.03100437 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03132454 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03170843 Italian_Bergamo
0.03188880 Spanish_Lleida
0.03241980 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03345870 Romanian

[Samnium]

Anyway, what is your opinion about this weird northern shift? Aostans seems to be basically Central Euros.

I haven't any idea about that, really. Aosta Valley seems to be quite isolated but these numbers would suggest a massive northern shift. I have to do some historical researchs.

Here people assume that "Aostans" are like Savoy people, they are maybe more "East in the sense that they would drift towards more Austrian/C.Euro nations than France.

[Token]

I haven't any idea about that, really. Aosta Valley seems to be quite isolated but these numbers would suggest a massive northern shift. I have to do some historical researchs.

Here people assume that "Aostans" are like Savoy people, they are maybe more "East in the sense that they would drift towards more Austrian/C.Euro nations than France.

Not trying to involve politics here, but South Tyrol and Aosta are clearly not part of Italy. They should be returned to their respective countries.

[Samnium]

Not trying to involve politics here, but South Tyrol and Aosta are clearly not part of Italy. They should be returned to their respective countries.

I think that Aosta is a french area yes. Definitely.

[Coastal Elite]

Not sure but Aosta valley appears to be the most Germanic region of Northern Italy by far, really an outlier. Seems somewhat similar genetically to Swiss-Germans.

[Token]

Not sure but Aosta valley appears to be the most Germanic region of Northern Italy by far, really an outlier. Seems somewhat similar genetically to Swiss-Germans.

Except for South Tyrol, probably.

[Vid Flumina]

Aostans are about as French as a Walloon from Verviers or a Swiss from Fribourg. LOL @ Provençal admixture..

[Samnium]

I've found always impressive the gap that can separate piedmontese from Aostans genetically, really.

[Token]

...

[Samnium]

Nel Medioevo fu oggetto di contesa e conquista da parte di numerosi popoli e regni, come i Burgundi nel V secolo, gli Ostrogoti, i Bizantini e i Longobardi nel VI secolo. In particolare, nel 575 fu siglata la pace tra il re merovingio di Borgogna e Orléans Gontrano e i Longobardi. I Franchi ottennero il controllo dei colli alpini, e i Longobardi dovettero cedere la Valle d'Aosta e quella di Susa. La frontiera tra la Borgogna e la Lombardia fu fissata a Pont-Saint-Martin.

Burgunds, Ostrogoths, Bizantine people, Longobards, Franks. In the Middle-Ages, these are maybe the answers to your question.

[dududud]

Distance to: Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.01581018 French_Provence
0.01793196 Italian_Northeast
0.01946763 Swiss_French
0.02068104 French_Auvergne
0.02167271 Italian_Trentino-Alto-Adige
0.02215091 Swiss_German
0.02341801 French_Alsace
0.02380134 Italian_Veneto
0.02382364 French_Occitanie
0.02538728 Spanish_Mallorca
0.02580515 French_Nord
0.02666308 Spanish_Penedes
0.02821902 Spanish_Girona
0.02823975 French_Paris
0.02941715 Spanish_Camp_de_Tarragona
0.02975291 Spanish_Peri-Barcelona
0.02990567 Spanish_Catalunya_Central
0.03047081 Spanish_Baleares
0.03057746 Belgian
0.03100437 Spanish_Barcelones
0.03132454 Spanish_Eivissa
0.03170843 Italian_Bergamo
0.03188880 Spanish_Lleida
0.03241980 Spanish_Terres_de_l'Ebre
0.03345870 Romanian

Almost like me.

[savvas]

Aostans are not a ''Provençal'' (or more rightly Occitan)-speaking people, they (used to) speak Arpitan, which is a different Gallo-Romance language:

Occitan (spoken in Provence):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Occitanie.svg/1024px-Occitanie.svg.png

Arpitan (spoken in Aosta):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/FRP-Map4.png

You should compare them to other Arpitan-speaking people from the other side of the Alps. I doubt they are more ''northern'' than Savoyards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy

[Samnium]

Aostans are not a ''Provençal'' (or more rightly Occitan)-speaking people, they (used to) speak Arpitan, which is a different Gallo-Romance language:

Occitan (spoken in Provence):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/5/50/Occitanie.svg/1024px-Occitanie.svg.png

Arpitan (spoken in Aosta):

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/03/FRP-Map4.png

You should compare them to other Arpitan-speaking people from the other side of the Alps. I doubt they are more ''northern'' than Savoyards:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Savoy

I think it's possible that they are more northern than Dauphinois, Savoyards from proper Savoy that are more "iberian" leaning, and on par with Haute-Savoie, High-Savoy is more connected to Burgundy and near to Swiss.

[Ibericus]

Anyways this Aostan sample only has 3 people in it, so not very reliable.

Is better the sample of 22 Aostans of another study, I have them on Eurogenes.

[Samnium]

Anyways this Aostan sample only has 3 people in it, so not very reliable.

Is better the sample of 22 Aostans of another study, I have them on Eurogenes.

The calabrian average on G25 has 2 samples LOL. The minimal number to make an average.

[Hajimurad]

I've found always impressive the gap that can separate piedmontese from Aostans genetically, really.

Did Aostans and other Arpitans settled in Piedmont plains? I found on Apricity information about Burgundian colonists, settled by Savoy dynasty, but doesn't find a sources about this movement.

[Samnium]

Did Aostans and other Arpitans settled in Piedmont plains? I found on Apricity information about Burgundian colonists, settled by Savoy dynasty, but doesn't find a sources about this movement.

It's possible but I don't think that these would have changed significantly Piedmonte. Remember that Aostans and Arpitans are moutainous people, they weren't so numerous back in time and that's maybe because of that that the germanic influences had their greatest "impact" there, Valle d'Aosta has something like 200 000 inhabitants.

[Vid Flumina]

Did Aostans and other Arpitans settled in Piedmont plains? I found on Apricity information about Burgundian colonists, settled by Savoy dynasty, but doesn't find a sources about this movement.

Only recently (19-20th century); this is how I got some Aostan ancestry.

[Aren]

Makes somewhat sense, since Aostans were originally Arpitan-speakers and more similar to French people East-Central France and French-Swiss.

However I do not trust any academic average from any region of France since it's illegal to obtain samples based on ethnicity in France.

[Samnium]

Only recently (19-20th century); this is how I got some Aostan ancestry.French Swiss and Aostans are almost the same. Valleys commynicate between them in the north of Aosta.

[Coastal Elite]

Based on the OP calculation. My fit is not quite as good and more Germanic.

"sample": "Custom: DacoCeltic_scaled",
"fit": 1.5844,
"German": 95,
"French_Provence": 5,

Aosta Valley is still in my G25 top 5 modern populations

[1,] "Swiss_German" "0.0122"
[2,] "Italian_Aosta_Valley" "0.0133"
[3,] "French_Alsace" "0.0134"
[4,] "French_Nord" "0.0143"
[5,] "Belgian" "0.0152"