Nice study on Balkan Y-DNA(2018).

[Voskos]

Total number of samples= 2179.
https://snipboard.io/a4AEMB.jpg
https://snipboard.io/zWSr4U.jpg
https://snipboard.io/gdicG4.jpg

[Jana]

Huge sample sample size for academic paper. First time I see Serbia having more I2a than Croatia.
Interesting.

Samples are from capital cities I presume?

[Voskos]

Huge sample sample size for academic paper. First time I see Serbia having more I2a than Croatia.
Interesting.

Samples are from capital cities I presume?

I don't know where the samples are from. Here's the full study.https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/anre/81/3/article-p252.xml?lang=en

[Jana]

I don't know where the samples are from. Here's the full study.https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/anre/81/3/article-p252.xml?lang=en

Very nice, they say previous R1a figure for Hungarians from mid-2000s (over 50%) was due to sampling error. It was certanly too much.
Realistic breakdown for Croatia percentage wise, I2a and R1a are where they should be.

Again confirms Hungarian Gypsies huge R1a percentage (same in Croatia, Z93 variety).
And interesting how Romania doesn't have particulary dominant haplogroup but very balanced ratios of E1b, I2a, R1a and R1b.

[Jana]

Strong German input in Hungary, over 20% of R1b (and they mostly have western Euro clades), and 13% of I1. :)

[Crn Volk]

Interesting. Macedonians, Bulgarians and Romanians are quite different here.

[CommonSense]

11% haplogroup H among the 339 Albanian samples?

[Leto]

Again confirms Hungarian Gypsies huge R1a percentage (same in Croatia, Z93 variety).
And interesting how Romania doesn't have particulary dominant haplogroup but very balanced ratios of E1b, I2a, R1a and R1b.
If that's true, I'm pro Romani now. They are the real Aryanz :cool:

[Dorian]

11% haplogroup H among the 339 Albanian samples?

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/42256153_Y-STR_variation_in_Albanian_populations_implications _on_the_match_probabilities_and_the_genetic_legacy _of_the_minority_claiming_an_Egyptian_descent

[CommonSense]

https://www.researchgate.net/publication/42256153_Y-STR_variation_in_Albanian_populations_implications _on_the_match_probabilities_and_the_genetic_legacy _of_the_minority_claiming_an_Egyptian_descent

If they included 'Egyptians' among the Albanian sample posted in the study by the OP, then it is far from representative.

[Dorian]

If they included 'Egyptians' among the Albanian sample posted in the study by the OP, then it is far from representative.

I mean isn't it obvious there's something wrong with some numbers there?

[Jana]

11% haplogroup H among the 339 Albanian samples?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ashkali_and_Balkan_Egyptians

Today most declares as Albanians and even took Albanian surnames, but they are Gypsies by origin.

[WeirdLookingFellow]

What are you talking about? H is 0% among those Romanians.


Edit: Thanks Feiichy I'm apparently colorblind rofl

[Jana]

Almost 15% H in Romanians based on 100 samples, where this is sometimes not even included in older studies due to very low %, sometimes even Q is mentioned but not H. Very doubtful about this study.

What are you talking about? H is 0% among those Romanians.

[MagnusDark]

We have nearly 1000 samples in the Albanian bloodlines project and like one or 2 H. Most H is probably coming from Jevg and Gabel groups. Also E-V13, J2b and R1b make up between 19-27 percent of samples and I2, R1a, J1 make up far more out of 1000 samples than do these representations at 300+ samples. See here to the group for yourself.

Percentage breakdown:

http://www.gjenetika.com/statistikat/

Number of samples and regions:

http://www.gjenetika.com/rezultatet/

[Coolguy1]

Uhh 5% J2a in Greece??

[MagnusDark]

Uhh 5% J2a in Greece??

The breakdown is wrong for alot of countries. Just look at H for Albania lol.

[Vožd]

Huge sample sample size for academic paper. First time I see Serbia having more I2a than Croatia.
Interesting.

Samples are from capital cities I presume?

I neither expected that high I2a concetration for Serbia and low for Romania.

[Illyrius]

Albania had more R1b like 16-20%
And J2b was around 16-18%
What happened to them lol

[Illyrius]

Uhh 5% J2a in Greece??

This map is retarded map.
Who did those studies?

[vbnetkhio]

I don't know where the samples are from. Here's the full study.https://content.sciendo.com/view/journals/anre/81/3/article-p252.xml?lang=en

the samples are reused from already published old studies.

[Pribislav]

Huge sample sample size for academic paper. First time I see Serbia having more I2a than Croatia.
Interesting.

Samples are from capital cities I presume?

Sample 2086 (wait few seconds when you click) https://www.poreklo.rs/2019/06/12/y-dna-haplogroups-of-ethnic-serbs/

[Pribislav]

Y dna of western Balkan - Dalmatian Serbs I1 master race! :)
https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Zapadni-Balkan-po-oblastih-eng.png

[Dick]

Y dna of western Balkan - Dalmatian Serbs I1 master race! :)
https://www.poreklo.rs/wp-content/uploads/2019/06/Zapadni-Balkan-po-oblastih-eng.png

Majority of I1 in croats and Bosniaks is either from Drobnjaci or Macure clan I assume?

[Pribislav]

Majority of I1 in croats and Bosniaks is either from Drobnjaci or Macure clan I assume?

Among both Serbs and Bosniaks from eastern Bosnia is strong "Drobnjak" I1-P109.

One Croatian guy from Herzegovina is close to Macure, he is for sure descendant of Macure convertits on Catholicism.
Šime Macura (1840-1918) from Dalmatia was a lawyer and activist of "Croatian independent party" (descendant of Macure converits on Catholicism) https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ime_Mazzura

[Jana]

Ydna statistics for 45 Croatian 23andme samples :thumb001: - mostly from the south, but not only

I = 62%
R = 31%
J = 4%
E = 2%
____________

I2 = 46%
R1a = 29%
I1 = 16%
R1b, E1b, J2 = 2% each
____________

I2-din = 44%
____________

Other Subclades found:

R1a-Z280-CTS1211-CTS3402 (3 samples)
R1a-Z280-CTS1211 (1 sample)
I2-din South-Z16983 (1 sample)
I2-M26 (1 sample)
I1-Z63-Y6228 (1 sample)
I1-Z63-Y13946 (1 sample)
I1-L22-P109 (1 sample)
J2a-L70 (1 sample)
J2b2-L283 (1 sample)
R1b-Z2103 (1 sample)
E-V13 (1 sample)

[Jana]

Among both Serbs and Bosniaks from eastern Bosnia is strong "Drobnjak" I1-P109.

One Croatian guy from Herzegovina is close to Macure, he is for sure descendant of Macure convertits on Catholicism.
Šime Macura (1840-1918) from Dalmatia was a lawyer and activist of "Croatian independent party" (descendant of Macure converits on Catholicism) https://hr.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C5%A0ime_Mazzura

Dude, nobody give a damn. Macure were Romanophone Vlachs from Montenegro with paternal Norman origin and they were assimilated by Serbs. nothing more.
But I know orthodox Vlach is automatically Serb for Serbs. Serbian Orthodox Church played main role here as lone monopolist over orthodox Christians in the region.

[Pribislav]

Dude, nobody give a damn. Macure are Romanophone Vlachs from Montenegro with paternal Norman origin and they were assimilated by Serbs. nothing more.

Wrong, they were part of Srbljaci living in Lim valley. Vasojevići pushed them from Lim valley, and they moved first in Herzegovina and later to the Dalmatia. Vasojevići sheperds discriminated Srbljaci farmers when they from somewhere came to Lim valley in 15th century. They had different lifestyle, and we can say Vasojevići were Vlachs not Srbljaci.

[Jana]

Wrong, they were part of Srbljaci living in Lim valley. Vasojevići pushed them from Lim valley, and moved first in Herzegovina and later to Dalmatia. Vasojevići sheperds discriminated Srbljaci farmers when they from somewhere came to Lim valley in 15th century. They had different lifestyle, and we can say Vasojevići were Vlachs not Srbljaci.

Vlachs has many different haplogroups, not only Paleo-Balkan ones but also Greek, Roman, Celtic and Germanic haplogroups. Later they assimilated many Slavic and probably some Asiatic markers as well.

[Pribislav]

Vlachs has many different haplogroups, not only Paleo-Balkan ones but also Greek, Roman, Celtic and Germanic haplogroups. Later they assimilated many Slavic and probably some Asiatic markers as well.

Macure (I1-Z63) were part of Srbjaci and farmers in Lim valley living there before Vasojevići.
Vasojevići (E-V13) were sheperds settled in 15th century in Lim valley, and they were in conflict with Srbljaci farmers. Vasojevići called native farmers Srbljaci.

It's obvious which clan was Vlach or vlach.


In Lim valley there are many Macure toponyms.

[Pribislav]

..

[Pribislav]

Dude, nobody give a damn. Macure were Romanophone Vlachs from Montenegro with paternal Norman origin and they were assimilated by Serbs. nothing more.
But I know orthodox Vlach is automatically Serb for Serbs. Serbian Orthodox Church played main role here as lone monopolist over orthodox Christians in the region.

Vlachs were Serbian sheperd caste speaking ikavian, look here https://hercegbosna.org/forum/post1246468.html#p1246468

Bunjevci were Serbian vlach sheperd caste, they were known as Morlachs is some periods.

[Jana]

Vlachs were Serbian sheperd caste speaking ikavian, look here https://hercegbosna.org/forum/post1246468.html#p1246468

Bunjevci were Serbian vlach sheperd caste, they were known as Morlachs is some periods.

Ne seri. I okani se hrvatskih dijalekata. drži se servskih.

[Pribislav]

Ne seri. I okani se hrvatskih dijalekata. drži se servskih.

Ikavian reflex is consequence of Latin influence on Slavic speech. Exist only in western Balkan where Rome had strong input, and in Ukraine (in part with significant Vlach input - Rusyn area). Ukrainian ikavism is younger, it's obsserved first time in the late middle age, interesting when happened massive Vlach migrations to the W. Ukraine.