Domesticated cats are #1 mass-killer of modern nature

[Austin]

http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/


New Studies Highlight Impact of Outdoor Cats on Birds and Other Wildlife

from Wildlife Promise (http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise)

8 3/16/2011 // Laura Tangley (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/author/tangley/) // American Bird Conservancy (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/american-bird-conservancy/), bird-watching (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/bird-watching/), Birds (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/birds/), catbirds (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/catbirds/), cats (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/cats/), National Wildlife Week (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/national-wildlife-week/), Smithsonian (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/smithsonian/), Towson University (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/towson-university/), Wildlife Society (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/wildlife-society/)
http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/files/2011/03/Cat_SherryBrianWood_nwpc_imgCA9Z0JGI1.jpg (http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/cat_sherrybrianwood_nwpc_imgca9z0jgi-2/)The animals make great pets, but outdoor cats, whether feral or tame, kill more than a million birds a day in the United States alone. Photo by Sherry and Brian Wood.

This week–National Wildlife Week (http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Activities/National-Wildlife-Week.aspx)–scientific organizations announced two new studies that provide more evidence of the havoc outdoor cats wreak on wild birds and other wildlife.
“Crime Against Nature”

On March 15, The Wildlife Society (http://joomla.wildlife.org/) said it was “taking a strong stand in favor of keeping pet cats indoors and removing feral cats from the environment to protect wildlife from cat predation.”
As part of this effort, the spring 2011 issue of the organization’s magazine, The Wildlife Professional, features a series of articles, “In Focus: The Impacts of Free-Roaming Cats (http://joomla.wildlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=845&Itemid=183).” The articles highlight problems that outdoor, stray and feral cats cause for wildlife and wildlife habitat as well as for animal and human health.
Among The Wildlife Society’s findings:


The number of free-roaming cats is increasing, currently between 117 million and 157 million in the United States alone. The domestic cat, Felis catus—a nonnative species—is now the most abundant carnivore in North America.
While cat numbers are rising, nearly one-third of more than 800 U.S. bird species are endangered, threatened or in significant decline.
By some estimates, outdoor cats in the United States kill more than 1 million birds every day on average. Other studies suggest the death toll is as high as 1 billion per year.
Outdoor cats transmit rabies, toxoplasmosis, typhus, plague and other viral and parasitic diseases to both wildlife and humans.

According to the society’s executive director, Michael Hutchins: “Allowing free-ranging pet and feral cats to roam outside, breed unchecked, kill native wildlife and spread disease is a crime against nature.”
The #1 Predator for Catbirds? Cats.

Another new study (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/scbi/migratorybirds/science_article/pdfs/55.pdf), on the effects of urbanization on wildlife and published in the Journal of Ornithology, tracked the early lives of gray catbirds in three suburbs of Washington, DC. Conducted by Peter Marra and Thomas Ryder of the Smithsonian Institution (http://www.si.edu/) and Anne L. Balogh of Towson University (http://www.towson.edu/), the study involved affixing very small radio transmitters to 69 newly hatched gray catbird chicks. The transmitters recorded the birds’ locations every other day until the animals left the study area or died.
Of the 42 young catbirds that did die, nearly 80 percent were killed by predators, and domestic cats were responsible for nearly half the known predation.
“While this study was not national in scope, it certainly adds more validation to what we’ve been saying for years: that outdoor cats are a highly destructive predatory force that is causing havoc in the world of native wildlife,” says Darin Schroeder, vice president for conservation advocacy at the American Bird Conservancy (http://www.abcbirds.org/), an organization that has long advocated keeping cats inside (http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/index.html).
Read a Washington Post commentary from Peter Marra (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-good-for-the-birds-but-also-no-good-for-the-cats/2011/03/17/ABLGkvr_story.html), one of the authors of the cat-catbird study.
Learn how to keep your indoor pets entertained by setting up a bird-watching station for cats (http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Birds/Archives/2010/Cats.aspx).
Do more to help local wildlife by making your yard an National Wildlife Federation Certified Wildlife Habitat (http://www.nwf.org/Get-Outside/Outdoor-Activities/Garden-for-Wildlife.aspx).
Find out about National Wildlife Week (http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Activities/National-Wildlife-Week.aspx), NWF’s longest-running education program, happening March 14-20, 2011.

[Lasituacion]

I heard 1 cat extinted a whole bird race from New Zealand. So yes i would believe this

[Sikeliot]

Your anti-feline propaganda does not convince me.

[Austin]

I heard 1 cat extinted a whole bird race from New Zealand. So yes i would believe this


What I don't understand is why the government of the U.S. doesn't work with environmental groups to save our remaining unraped birds and small creatures.

We need an immediate government mandated killing off of a good portion of domesticated cats and there needs to be draconian sterilization laws passed in respect to cats and those that aren't sterilized need to be forcibly put to sleep as a pro-nature initiative.

We have little time before the U.S. bird populations are literally decimated.

[Mercury]

Evolution, natural selection. The birds and other animals will learn how to adapt to the cat. End of story. Every species on this planet has been an invasive species at one time or another. It's how nature works.

[Austin]

Evolution, natural selection. The birds and other animals will learn how to adapt to the cat. End of story. Every species on this planet has been an invasive species at one time or another. It's how nature works.


It isn't natural though. Humans are fostering this destruction. Literally whole bird species and small mammal/reptilian species are being wiped out.

This is not natural. Domesticated cats are essentially anti-nature when buoyed by human benevolence.

[BeerBaron]

I like that someone pointed this out because cats usually go along with vegetarians or animals first people who fail to realize they are caring for the most invasive species in history.

[Austin]

I like that someone pointed this out because cats usually go along with vegetarians or animals first people who fail to realize they are caring for the most invasive species in history.


Yes oh my lord.

We get to hear about saving the whales from people who go home to 10 cats who've killed who knows how many thousands of birds. The hypocrisy is astounding. Much of it exists on this board even.

[Mercury]

It isn't natural though. Humans are fostering this destruction.

The worst devastation caused by cats takes place on remote islands, where there are no human settlements. We many have put them there-- but what if they went there naturally through some sort of weird migration? Does that make it alright then?


Literally whole bird species and small mammal/reptilian species are being wiped out.

This is not natural. Domesticated cats are essentially anti-nature when buoyed by human benevolence.

If we're going to start removing invasive species, let's start with Homo Sapiens. Small mammals being wiped out? Cats kill rats en masse, rats are the most invasive species on the planet. Those rats are literally on every continent, even Antarctica (due to human bases there). And cats are also known for going after squirrels & rabbits, those mammals' numbers are artificially high due to humans. Also, rabbits destroy tons of crops. If people aren't using cats to keep their numbers down they will use rabbit-hunting dogs or ferrits.

And Mammals are amazing at adapting, that's how we got where we are. I'm sure they will come up with plenty of ways to avoid/survive cats. I'm not worried about it.

[Electronic God-Man]

I'd say simply kill off the cats that have gone feral.

[Mercury]

Oh plus, I forgot to point out, humans have killed off a lot of our (North American) native cats. Would it be such a bad idea to have feral cats around, if this is the case?

[Austin]

The worst devastation caused by cats takes place on remote islands, where there are no human settlements. We many have put them there-- but what if they went there naturally through some sort of weird migration? Does that make it alright then?


If we're going to start removing invasive species, let's start with Homo Sapiens. Small mammals being wiped out? Cats kill rats en masse, rats are the most invasive species on the planet. Those rats are literally on every continent, even Antarctica (due to human bases there). And cats are also known for going after squirrels & rabbits, those mammals' numbers are artificially high due to humans. Also, rabbits destroy tons of crops. If people aren't using cats to keep their numbers down they will use rabbit-hunting dogs or ferrits.

And Mammals are amazing at adapting, that's how we got where we are. I'm sure they will come up with plenty of ways to avoid/survive cats. I'm not worried about it.


I'm just saying that we need to cull, as a society, around 75% of domestic cat populations or perhaps destroy the whole population and create sanctioned cat-banks where their reproduction can be monitored and maintained.

Birds and all small mammals have a right to exist. Snakes and other reptiles also have a right to exist. Your cat supremacy is appalling and is an anti-environment position!!!! Open your eyes man!!!

[Raskolnikov]

I hate it when they kill something then bring it to you and don't eat it.

[Lasituacion]

What I don't understand is why the government of the U.S. doesn't work with environmental groups to save our remaining unraped birds and small creatures.

We need an immediate government mandated killing off of a good portion of domesticated cats and there needs to be draconian sterilization laws passed in respect to cats and those that aren't sterilized need to be forcibly put to sleep as a pro-nature initiative.

We have little time before the U.S. bird populations are literally decimated.

I think segregation could work as well, but also birth control, i've seen a couple of cat-controll from PETA. but well it's a private org.

This is what happens when someone puts natural predators in other environments.

I heard cats were brought to new worlds to control rat infestation problems, however the cat i mention you was a pet from an English scientist that was making a research on New Zealand.

So in conclusion i think every specie should be in their own environment in order to survive.

[Zephyr]

I heard 1 cat extinted a whole bird race from New Zealand. So yes i would believe this

Just like the Dodo in Mauritius. It has been described that Dodo's meat was awful, but pigs introduced by colonials destroyed their nests and ate their eggs to the point of extinction.

Rabbits in Australia are yet another plague. Bacterial experiments to kill them spread to Europe and destroyed rabbits in Europe as well, living species who fed on rabbits at the brink of extinction too.

[BeerBaron]

If we're going to start removing invasive species, let's start with Homo Sapiens. Small mammals being wiped out? Cats kill rats en masse, rats are the most invasive species on the planet. Those rats are literally on every continent, even Antarctica (due to human bases there). And cats are also known for going after squirrels & rabbits, those mammals' numbers are artificially high due to humans. Also, rabbits destroy tons of crops. If people aren't using cats to keep their numbers down they will use rabbit-hunting dogs or ferrits.


Domestic house cats really aren't that good at killing rats, rats are large and reproduce very quickly, part of the reason rat terriers (dog breed) were bred.

[SwordoftheVistula]

Birds shit on my truck sometimes, so this is good news.

[Óttar]

We have little time before the U.S. bird populations are literally decimated.
I highly doubt you actually give a fuck about birds.

[rhiannon]

http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/


New Studies Highlight Impact of Outdoor Cats on Birds and Other Wildlife

from Wildlife Promise (http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise)

8 3/16/2011 // Laura Tangley (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/author/tangley/) // American Bird Conservancy (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/american-bird-conservancy/), bird-watching (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/bird-watching/), Birds (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/birds/), catbirds (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/catbirds/), cats (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/cats/), National Wildlife Week (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/national-wildlife-week/), Smithsonian (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/smithsonian/), Towson University (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/towson-university/), Wildlife Society (http://blog.nwf.org/blog/tags/wildlife-society/)
http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/files/2011/03/Cat_SherryBrianWood_nwpc_imgCA9Z0JGI1.jpg (http://blog.nwf.org/wildlifepromise/2011/03/new-studies-highlight-impact-of-outdoor-cats-on-birds-and-other-wildlife/cat_sherrybrianwood_nwpc_imgca9z0jgi-2/)The animals make great pets, but outdoor cats, whether feral or tame, kill more than a million birds a day in the United States alone. Photo by Sherry and Brian Wood.

This week–National Wildlife Week (http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Activities/National-Wildlife-Week.aspx)–scientific organizations announced two new studies that provide more evidence of the havoc outdoor cats wreak on wild birds and other wildlife.
“Crime Against Nature”

On March 15, The Wildlife Society (http://joomla.wildlife.org/) said it was “taking a strong stand in favor of keeping pet cats indoors and removing feral cats from the environment to protect wildlife from cat predation.”
As part of this effort, the spring 2011 issue of the organization’s magazine, The Wildlife Professional, features a series of articles, “In Focus: The Impacts of Free-Roaming Cats (http://joomla.wildlife.org/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=845&Itemid=183).” The articles highlight problems that outdoor, stray and feral cats cause for wildlife and wildlife habitat as well as for animal and human health.
Among The Wildlife Society’s findings:


The number of free-roaming cats is increasing, currently between 117 million and 157 million in the United States alone. The domestic cat, Felis catus—a nonnative species—is now the most abundant carnivore in North America.
While cat numbers are rising, nearly one-third of more than 800 U.S. bird species are endangered, threatened or in significant decline.
By some estimates, outdoor cats in the United States kill more than 1 million birds every day on average. Other studies suggest the death toll is as high as 1 billion per year.
Outdoor cats transmit rabies, toxoplasmosis, typhus, plague and other viral and parasitic diseases to both wildlife and humans.

According to the society’s executive director, Michael Hutchins: “Allowing free-ranging pet and feral cats to roam outside, breed unchecked, kill native wildlife and spread disease is a crime against nature.”
The #1 Predator for Catbirds? Cats.

Another new study (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/scbi/migratorybirds/science_article/pdfs/55.pdf), on the effects of urbanization on wildlife and published in the Journal of Ornithology, tracked the early lives of gray catbirds in three suburbs of Washington, DC. Conducted by Peter Marra and Thomas Ryder of the Smithsonian Institution (http://www.si.edu/) and Anne L. Balogh of Towson University (http://www.towson.edu/), the study involved affixing very small radio transmitters to 69 newly hatched gray catbird chicks. The transmitters recorded the birds’ locations every other day until the animals left the study area or died.
Of the 42 young catbirds that did die, nearly 80 percent were killed by predators, and domestic cats were responsible for nearly half the known predation.
“While this study was not national in scope, it certainly adds more validation to what we’ve been saying for years: that outdoor cats are a highly destructive predatory force that is causing havoc in the world of native wildlife,” says Darin Schroeder, vice president for conservation advocacy at the American Bird Conservancy (http://www.abcbirds.org/), an organization that has long advocated keeping cats inside (http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/cats/index.html).
Read a Washington Post commentary from Peter Marra (http://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions/no-good-for-the-birds-but-also-no-good-for-the-cats/2011/03/17/ABLGkvr_story.html), one of the authors of the cat-catbird study.
Learn how to keep your indoor pets entertained by setting up a bird-watching station for cats (http://www.nwf.org/News-and-Magazines/National-Wildlife/Birds/Archives/2010/Cats.aspx).
Do more to help local wildlife by making your yard an National Wildlife Federation Certified Wildlife Habitat (http://www.nwf.org/Get-Outside/Outdoor-Activities/Garden-for-Wildlife.aspx).
Find out about National Wildlife Week (http://www.nwf.org/Wildlife/Activities/National-Wildlife-Week.aspx), NWF’s longest-running education program, happening March 14-20, 2011.

At least cats don't kill PEOPLE. Something that cannot be said for their canine counterparts:(

Cats hunt. It is their instinct. If more people kept their pets safer indoors, this would be less of a problem.

I like birds....but I do not like birds more than I like cats. I certainly don't want to see laws instituted that will allow for creepy cat-haters to SHOOT them....as some states are attempting to pass.:flame

[rhiannon]

Birds shit on my truck sometimes, so this is good news.

:lmao

[rhiannon]

What I don't understand is why the government of the U.S. doesn't work with environmental groups to save our remaining unraped birds and small creatures.

We need an immediate government mandated killing off of a good portion of domesticated cats and there needs to be draconian sterilization laws passed in respect to cats and those that aren't sterilized need to be forcibly put to sleep as a pro-nature initiative.

We have little time before the U.S. bird populations are literally decimated.

It's because of people like you that cats need to be kept indoors. You truly make me sick. Makes me wonder if you have any cruelty to animals charges on your record. :mad:

[rhiannon]

I'm just saying that we need to cull, as a society, around 75% of domestic cat populations or perhaps destroy the whole population and create sanctioned cat-banks where their reproduction can be monitored and maintained.

Birds and all small mammals have a right to exist. Snakes and other reptiles also have a right to exist. Your cat supremacy is appalling and is an anti-environment position!!!! Open your eyes man!!!

I say do this to dogs....that KILL HUMAN BEINGS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Dogs are far more a threat to us than any cat ever will be. I don't hear about cats running up to a child and attacking the child....cats are not like that. I should know from having had cats all my life.

Cats have a right to exist, too. Your hatred for cats astounds me. Why don't we euthanize pit bulls, german shepards, and rottweilers? These are the breeds that are most known to turn on humans, after all.......

Seeing as you are such a dog lover and all. How does that make you feel?

[Austin]

I highly doubt you actually give a fuck about birds.


Birds are creatures of the realm. Domesticated cats are human-bred garbage that should be disposed of. They don't belong.

Cats did not help humanity hunt or protect it's encampments. It is a leech of a creature that rapes the natural nature around it.

A cat will hop in the arms of someone who comes and beats it's owner of 20 years with a bat to death, so long as that person feeds it the tuna in their hands. A dog will fight and protect the owner.


Do any of you know what happens to a cat when you call the city to come get it? They wait 24 hours, sometimes less, then promptly gas (cheaper) it to death with about 50 others. Many cities will just tell you over the phone ways in which to save them money and retire the cat yourself. They'd rather not drive out and spend the gas money come getting it.

They say you are doing them and the environment a favor. Some of you evidently don't understand how the real world of environmentalism works. It isn't like on animal planet where every little cat gets a home. Environmental groups will even tell you the best cat retirement methods. They are a problematic environmental catastrophe.

[jerney]

Birds are creatures of the realm. Domesticated cats are human-bred garbage that should be disposed of. They don't belong.

Cats did not help humanity hunt or protect it's encampments. It is a leech of a creature that rapes the natural nature around it.

A cat will hop in the arms of someone who comes and beats it's owner of 20 years with a bat to death, so long as that person feeds it the tuna in their hands. A dog will fight and protect the owner.


Do any of you know what happens to a cat when you call the city to come get it? They wait 24 hours, sometimes less, then promptly gas (cheaper) it to death with about 50 others. Many cities will just tell you over the phone ways in which to save them money and retire the cat yourself. They'd rather not drive out and spend the gas money come getting it.

They say you are doing them and the environment a favor. Some of you evidently don't understand how the real world of environmentalism works. It isn't like on animal planet where every little cat gets a home. Environmental groups will even tell you the best cat retirement methods. They are a problematic environmental catastrophe.

If I had to choose between you or a cat in a house fire, I'd choose the cat over you any day and smile while you burn to death. :thumb001:

As for the thread, humans are to blame for the over population of cats and should take responsibility for it and learn to spay/neuter their pets

[Odoacer]

How many of these birds that are killed belong themselves to invasive species? :icon1:

[Austin]

If I had to choose between you or a cat in a house fire, I'd choose the cat over you any day and smile while you burn to death. :thumb001:

As for the thread, humans are to blame for the over population of cats and should take responsibility for it and learn to spay/neuter their pets


ahahaha love the passion XD


Still one cannot be a true environmentalist and be pro-domesticated cat. They are natures rapist. The humane thing to do would be to cull most of them, in defense of all native bird and small mammal life in nature.

[jerney]

ahahaha love the passion XD


Still one cannot be a true environmentalist and be pro-domesticated cat. They are natures rapist. The humane thing to do would be to cull most of them, in defense of all native bird and small mammal life in nature.

I'm not an "environmentalist" and nothing of what you said changes the fact that I value not only my cats' lives, but any cats' lives over yours

[Austin]

I'm not an "environmentalist" and nothing of what you said changes the fact that I value not only my cats' lives, but any cats' lives over yours


Yes but jerney, honey, this sorta emo personal attack assumes I care whether you value my life or not. You're a text-based entity to me. Let me assure you I don't care (lol) if you value my life over a cats (an animal).

Domesticated cats hurt the environment. There's nothing personal about that statement. The evidence is profound and there is tons of it. One must deal in logic and not couch-scripted-TV feelings. We are discussing animals here that are devastating other animals. It isn't a personal attack thread, it is a cat remedy and solution thread. Can we not discuss rational environmentalism without TV-based emotions?

[Aces High]

[B] Why don't we euthanize pit bulls, german shepards, and rottweilers? These are the breeds that are most known to turn on humans, after all.......


Actually its Cavalier king charles spaniel that bites humans the most.....strange but true.

[Austin]

http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catfly3.htm

What effects do domestic cats have on wildlife?

Although rural free-ranging cats have greater access to wild animals and undoubtedly take the greatest toll, even urban house pets take live prey when allowed outside. Extensive studies of the feeding habits of free-ranging domestic cats over 50 years and four continents [6] indicate that small mammals make up approximately 70% of these cats' prey while birds make up about 20%. The remaining 10% is a variety of other animals. The diets of free-ranging cat populations, however, reflect the food locally available. Observation of free-ranging domestic cats shows that some individuals can kill over 1000 wild animals per year [7], although smaller numbers are more typical. Some of the data on kills suggest that free-ranging cats living in small towns kill an average of 14 wild animals each per year. Rural cats kill many more wild animals than do urban, or suburban cats [8]. Several studies found that up to 90% of free-ranging rural cats' diet was wild animals, and less than 10% of rural cats killed no wild animals [9]. Recent research [10] suggests that rural free-ranging domestic cats in Wisconsin may be killing between 8 and 217 million birds each year. The most reasonable estimates indicate that 39 million birds are killed in the state each year. Nationwide, rural cats probably kill over a billion small mammals and hundreds of millions of birds each year. Urban and suburban cats add to this toll. Some of these kills are house mice, rats and other species considered pests, but many are native songbirds and mammals whose populations are already stressed by other factors, such as habitat destruction and pesticide pollution.
Despite the difficulties in showing the effect most predators have on their prey, cats are known to have serious impacts on small mammals and birds. Worldwide, cats may have been involved in the extinction of more bird species than any other cause, except habitat destruction. Cats are contributing to the endangerment of populations of birds such as Least Terns, Piping Plovers and Loggerhead http://wildlife.wisc.edu/extension/catnest.gif Shrikes. In Florida, marsh rabbits in Key West have been threatened by predation from domestic cats [11]. Cats introduced by people living on the barrier islands of Florida's coast have depleted several unique species of mice and woodrats to near extinction [12, 13].
Not only do cats prey on many small mammals and birds, but they can outnumber and compete with native predators. Domestic cats eat many of the same animals that native predators do. When present in large numbers, cats can reduce the availability of prey for native predators, such as hawks [14] and weasels [15].
Free-ranging domestic cats may also transmit new diseases to wild animals. Domestic cats have spread feline leukemia virus to mountain lions [16] and may have recently infected the endangered Florida Panther with feline panleukopenia (feline distemper) and an immune deficiency disease [17]. These diseases may pose a serious threat to this rare species. Some free-ranging domestic cats also carry several diseases that are easily transmitted to humans, including rabies and toxoplasmosis [18].

[Inese]

I don't hear about cats running up to a child and attacking the child....cats are not like that.
Hmmm.....
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/19/CatAttack.gif

http://i42.tinypic.com/34xrm06.jpg

But cats are cool and nice! I love cats and they are no danger to the environment. :)

[Austin]

I'd say simply kill off the cats that have gone feral.


But all domesticated cats are basically feral is the essential argument and reality.

Urban and suburban cats do insane amounts of damage is what the data shows even on a good day. They slaughter multiple hundreds of birds and other animals every year that would otherwise exist in or around such human centers.

Cats breed like rats, and ironically aren't super rat killers either as one poster pointed out. Rat populations are at historical peaks in urban centers and suburban areas at the same time cat populations are, so this notion that cats prevent large rat populations is completely false.

Cats slaughter rats natural food competition and hence rat populations explode well beyond cats ability to control them. Cities have massive rat populations BECAUSE of cats killing all their natural resource competitors such as mice, squirrels, birds, and numerous other small creatures that balance out rats.

[Humanophage]

It would, perhaps, be preferable if people kept all pets at home without allowing them to freely roam the land. My cat, for instance, never left the flat except for a couple of times when he was young (and then under human supervision).

One positive thing about cats is that they can normally live in such closed environments, unlike dogs. As pointed out above, stray cats may be a threat to nature, but stray dogs are a definite threat to humans.

In general, it is a bad idea for any domestic animals to be free-ranging, it is simply unsanitary.

[Austin]

It would, perhaps, be preferable if people kept all pets at home without allowing them to freely roam the land. My cat, for instance, never left the flat except for a couple of times when he was young (and then under human supervision).

One positive thing about cats is that they can normally live in such closed environments, unlike dogs. As pointed out above, stray cats may be a threat to nature, but stray dogs are a definite threat to humans.

In general, it is a bad idea for any domestic animals to be free-ranging, it is simply unsanitary.


A non-hunting, domesticated dog will maybe kill around fifteen to fifty or so animals a year, some a bit more, most much less.

Domesticated dogs don't last long as strays. Domesticated cats do. Plus they breed at astronomical rates.

The "dogs kill people argument" is playing semantics on the issue. Dogs do kill people. So does playing football. It isn't a dog issue. Dogs aren't posing the greatest environmental threat to nature the planet has ever known. Domesticated cats are. Bird populations are literally under a daily holocaust as are small mammal populations and lizard populations.

[askra]

this should be a problem of the Americas, the cats were imported there by the europeans few centuries ago, so the native fauna is not ready from an evolutive point of view, to defend themselves, from animals that lived only in the Old World.
it's the same that happened in australia with domesticated dogs, that at the same time were brought by the europeans, that have caused the extinction of endemic species of marsupials.
i'm sure that birds living in europe, asia and africa are quite able to defend themselves from the attacks of domesticated cats. :P

[Austin]

this should be a problem of the Americas, the cats were imported there by the europeans few centuries ago, so the native fauna is not ready from an evolutive point of view, to defend themselves, from animals that lived only in the Old World.
it's the same that happened in australia with domesticated dogs, that at the same time were brought by the europeans, that have caused the extinction of endemic species of marsupials.
i'm sure that birds living in europe, asia and africa are quite able to defend themselves from the attacks of domesticated cats. :P


No they aren't Europe is having this issue as well with cats.

[Ouistreham]

Austin,

Cats may cause big problems in environments like tropical regions (which offer a niche to bigger felines but aren't prepared to small agressive predators like cats) and in some fragile isolated biotopes (like the Kerguelen Islands, maybe you know).

But where I live, about 100 km NorthWest of Paris in a small village that hasn't significantly changed since the Middle Ages, cats are part of the ecological balance. Every household has one or more. They contain proliferation of mices and rats, they try to catch birds but rarely succeed. All bird species that should be there are well and alive, no one is missing. Birds have probably developed routines to build their nests out of reach of cats.

Feral cats are sometimes reported in the forests nearby. Foxes take care of them.

I have a cat. A dedicated hunter (he's given cat food as parcimoniously as possible). He kills rodents but never eats them, he prefers poultry. He may have caught a couple of sparrows in his already long carrier, but he focuses on Turkish Doves. He swallows at least one on a daily basis, he's an expert in hunting the fledgling ones who try their first flights.

Turkish Doves (streptopelia decaocto) are an invasive species. The first ones showed up here about fourty years ago, they are now becoming a plague. They breed all year long or nearly, are even displacing local species.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Streptopelia_decaocto_expansion.png

Thus, cats are here a key element in the preservation of our local environmental balance.

I'm have much more concern with the Monsanto pesticides farmers blend with the fertilizers they spread. I notice that year after year, butterfly and beetle species I used to see everywhere when I was a child become rarer or are disappearing.

[Austin]

Austin,

Cats may cause big problems in environments like tropical regions (which offer a niche to bigger felines but aren't prepared to small agressive predators like cats) and in some fragile isolated biotopes (like the Kerguelen Islands, maybe you know).

But where I live, about 100 km NorthWest of Paris in a small village that hasn't significantly changed since the Middle Ages, cats are part of the ecological balance. Every household has one or more. They contain proliferation of mices and rats, they try to catch birds but rarely succeed. All bird species that should be there are well and alive, no one is missing. Birds have probably developed routines to build their nests out of reach of cats.

Feral cats are sometimes reported in the forests nearby. Foxes take care of them.

I have a cat. A dedicated hunter (he's given cat food as parcimoniously as possible). He kills rodents but never eats them, he prefers poultry. He may have caught a couple of sparrows in his already long carrier, but he focuses on Turkish Doves. He swallows at least one on a daily basis, he's an expert in hunting the fledgling ones who try their first flights.

Turkish Doves (streptopelia decaocto) are an invasive species. The first ones showed up here about fourty years ago, they are now becoming a plague. They breed all year long or nearly, are even displacing local species.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/88/Streptopelia_decaocto_expansion.png

Thus, cats are here a key element in the preservation of our local environmental balance.

I'm have much more concern with the Monsanto pesticides farmers blend with the fertilizers they spread. I notice that year after year, butterfly and beetle species I used to see everywhere when I was a child become rarer or are disappearing.


Okay I understand all this, and yes it's true that cats invariably kill some invasive species that do not belong, but for every one Turkish Dove your cat kills, it kills something native that you aren't telling us about or you didn't see in the first place. Surely you're not claiming that your cat has an adopted policy of only killing invasive species? I'm sure it has butchered plenty of little native chicks and other little mammals that were native.

I didn't want to do this. But if you're hitting me with this map crap and poisonous cat lies then you leave me no choice. It's time.GfdBmrLrGX8

[askra]

During Medieval times in Europe, the cats were considered diabolical animals, or even one of the causes of the plague, and so they were persecuted,
while were the Black Rats that introduced the disease in Europe.
If cats wasn't persecuted during the middle ages, being predators of the rats, less people would be died due to plague.

[Pallantides]

Cats are our overlords!
http://img18.imageshack.us/img18/6035/assumingcontrol.jpg

http://www.dennyweb.com/viking_kittens.htm

[Ouistreham]

Austin,

Believe me, here on the country, birds and small mammals pay an infinitely higher toll to weasels, black and red martens, polecats and other wild ferrets.

I suppose variants of those species are also present in America.

[Scrapple]

Haha

[Austin]

Austin,

Believe me, here on the country, birds and small mammals pay an infinitely higher toll to weasels, black and red martens, polecats and other wild ferrets.

I suppose variants of those species are also present in America.

Guilty.
GNEjwNWDfW4

[rhiannon]

Hmmm.....
http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/19/CatAttack.gif

http://i42.tinypic.com/34xrm06.jpg

But cats are cool and nice! I love cats and they are no danger to the environment. :)

When I mean attack...I mean ATTACK, as in anger. When dogs do this, children (and adults too) have been known to die. Breeds commonly responsible for such behaviors are Rottweilers, Pitbulls, and poorly trained German Shepards.

Cats rarely attack in the way those vids depict...probably why they're on Youtube, lol. They certainly don't go for the throat the way dogs can, and do.

[rhiannon]

During Medieval times in Europe, the cats were considered diabolical animals, or even one of the causes of the plague, and so they were persecuted,
while were the Black Rats that introduced the disease in Europe.
If cats wasn't persecuted during the middle ages, being predators of the rats, less people would be died due to plague.

EXACTLY.

[Boudica]

They kill rodents which is good for their owners (us). I'm not going to complain. Mice tend to piss off my horses, which I don't really like. Having cats around makes it much better. It's not like cats are killing people, they are killing rodents that carry diseases and fuck up your house. As for them killing birds, that is just part of the food chain. Animals kill, that is just how it is. We kill for food, so do they and every other animal that consumes meat. Why don't you bring up the fact that birds kill bugs? Big deal, it's the food chain.

[Zephyr]

They kill rodents which is good for their owners (us). I'm not going to complain. Mice tend to piss off my horses, which I don't really like. Having cats around makes it much better. It's not like cats are killing people, they are killing rodents that carry diseases and fuck up your house. As for them killing birds, that is just part of the food chain. Animals kill, that is just how it is. We kill for food, so do they and every other animal that consumes meat. Why don't you bring up the fact that birds kill bugs? Big deal, it's the food chain.

Problem is modern cats are a new species created by humans, they go feral, reproduce excessively and are a plague on many species that have no historical adaptation to it.

Most of women defend cats so fiercely because they look furry and sweet, but this passion for cuteness has a price.

Modern cats are just another form of human egotism. We manipulate other animals in order to satisfy our "capriccios" without caring for what implications it may have.

[BiałaZemsta]

Guilty.
GNEjwNWDfW4

That poor squirrel is literaly getting tortured to death. How can anyone on here justify that?!? Cats really are evil I guess. Good to know.

[BiałaZemsta]

They kill rodents which is good for their owners (us). I'm not going to complain. Mice tend to piss off my horses, which I don't really like. Having cats around makes it much better. It's not like cats are killing people, they are killing rodents that carry diseases and fuck up your house. As for them killing birds, that is just part of the food chain. Animals kill, that is just how it is. We kill for food, so do they and every other animal that consumes meat. Why don't you bring up the fact that birds kill bugs? Big deal, it's the food chain.

There is a huge difference with cats. Cats apparently torture, then kill. In the end they do not even eat their victim. Food chain... Not in this case.

[Max]

Guilty.
GNEjwNWDfW4

http://images.icanhascheezburger.com/completestore/2008/10/28/128697346123145220.jpg

[Max]

That poor squirrel is literaly getting tortured to death. How can anyone on here justify that?!? Cats really are evil I guess. Good to know.

http://www.baxterbarktwice.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/evil-1.jpg

[Groenewolf]

Cats breed like rats, and ironically aren't super rat killers either as one poster pointed out. Rat populations are at historical peaks in urban centers and suburban areas at the same time cat populations are, so this notion that cats prevent large rat populations is completely false.

Actually this has more to do with that (sub)urban cats are spoiled. And most of them do no go after rats if put on a cat version of a stereotypical American diet. However if not overfed some cats do drag in rats from time to time.

[Fiona]

Evolution, natural selection. The birds and other animals will learn how to adapt to the cat. End of story. Every species on this planet has been an invasive species at one time or another. It's how nature works.
does this include europeans? because without similar protection as Austin calls for these birds we are gone too. A world full of negroes asians and cats. lovely

[Austin]

Actually this has more to do with that (sub)urban cats are spoiled. And most of them do no go after rats if put on a cat version of a stereotypical American diet. However if not overfed some cats do drag in rats from time to time.


True but cats are natural hunters/carnivores and are more adaptable than dogs so this means that if they are being fed at all by humans they are by default spoiled. A stray domesticated dog can't live long without humans feeding it, a stray domesticated cat can easily enough for years. Even with this reality domesticated cats still go out and slaughter, even the fat ones.

There's tons of videos on YouTube of super fat cats bringing in chipmunks with their heads bitten off.

[Boudica]

Problem is modern cats are a new species created by humans, they go feral, reproduce excessively and are a plague on many species that have no historical adaptation to it.

Most of women defend cats so fiercely because they look furry and sweet, but this passion for cuteness has a price.

Modern cats are just another form of human egotism. We manipulate other animals in order to satisfy our "capriccios" without caring for what implications it may have.

There is over population even in the wild life, look at deer. I'm not defending anything, I'm being realistic. I'm actually a dog person.

[Groenewolf]

A stray domesticated dog can't live long without humans feeding it, a stray domesticated cat can easily enough for years.

Actually dogs can go feral. But how successfully probably depends on the breed. Cats have an easier time because their prime function had always being pest control in human societies. While with dogs there are also strains that serve an other purpose then being an aid during the hunt or help guard things.

[Zephyr]

There is over population even in the wild life, look at deer. I'm not defending anything, I'm being realistic. I'm actually a dog person.

Is there deer overpopulation in your area? maybe one of their predators' population was reduced.

[Humanophage]

Domesticated dogs don't last long as strays. Domesticated cats do. Plus they breed at astronomical rates.

The "dogs kill people argument" is playing semantics on the issue. Dogs do kill people. So does playing football. It isn't a dog issue. Dogs aren't posing the greatest environmental threat to nature the planet has ever known. Domesticated cats are. Bird populations are literally under a daily holocaust as are small mammal populations and lizard populations.
It is more of a stray domesticated animal issue. The argument is that all stray pets are undesirable, not just cats - saying so just makes it seem as if you hold a grudge against cats in particular. Besides, you seemed overprotective of dogs.

Dogs seldom kill people, but maim them often. Unlike playing football, it isn't a voluntary risk. Football players don't approach you in the street and beat you up. Around 30 000 people per year suffer dog bites in Moscow, for example - that would be 900 000 people per year if Moscow was the size of the US. Cats do not present any such problem to humans, and hence are understandably a secondary priority.

It should be noted that the figure of 60 million feral cats in the US or 18 million in Australia is staggeringly high. In the UK, for example, they number just 2 million. Rome supposedly has an exceptionally high number of feral cats for Europe, 300 000, which is about 7 humans per cat, whereas in the US it's 5 humans per cat. The US and Australia merely have a problem with feral cats gone out of control.

Indeed, lashing out at domestic cats in the American case is quite inappropriate, as they form a minority of the free-roaming cat population, 35% (http://www.law.ufl.edu/conservation/pdf/feralcat.pdf) of owned cats never leaving home. The population of owned cats that leave home is therefore about 47 million, while the number of feral cats is 40-60 million. I'd imagine that owned cats spend much less time preying on birds, but that is speculation.

By the way, the study (http://nationalzoo.si.edu/scbi/migratorybirds/science_article/pdfs/55.pdf) cited in the OP has a very small sample of 69 individual birds. Of the 42 birds that died, 9 were killed by cats, which is 13% of the total number of birds - hardly a holocaust. And that's just post-fledglings, because nest predators like grey squirrels seem to be a greater danger. Cats do seem to have an influence on post-juvenile survival, but at the early and most significant stage it was equally low in all cases (75% of birds died while juvenile in the park with no cats, 75% and 83% in parks with cats).

[Treffie]

I blame smokers and feminists for the reason why cats are so evil.

[Albion]

It doesn't make much difference in Eurasia - various sub-species of the domestic cat's wild ancestors range across Africa, Europe and Asia. If it wasn't for domestic cats dilluting and hybridising with the wild cats then the wild cats would exist over most of Eurasia.
The domestic cat is from the African sub-species of Wildcat, the European Wildcat found from Russia to Scotland can hybridise with it and subsequently the domestic cat. That is why "Scottish" (European) Wildcats are at risk of extinction in Scotland, they're longgone from the rest of the UK for the same reason.

http://www.scottishwildcats.co.uk/wildcatsmap.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c8/European_Wildcat_Nationalpark_Bayerischer_Wald_03. jpg

And that is why I find it silly when people whine about domestic cats in Britain eating all the birds, it'd be like that anyway. Conservationists in the UK at least usually have a pro-avian, pro-farming, pro-moorland bias - I know because I sued to work with them.

[Pallantides]

TbiedguhyvM

[Stars Down To Earth]

Austin, were you, by any chance, one of those special children who got a stiffy and came in your pants when you set fire on animals? :D

[Albion]

Problem is modern cats are a new species created by humans, they go feral, reproduce excessively and are a plague on many species that have no historical adaptation to it.

Most of women defend cats so fiercely because they look furry and sweet, but this passion for cuteness has a price.

Modern cats are just another form of human egotism. We manipulate other animals in order to satisfy our "capriccios" without caring for what implications it may have.

Not really, cats are little different from wildcats, if anything we've made them less likely to catch other wildlife, there's many a domestic cat which would never really catch anyhting, if anything we've made them more soft.
Cats were already present in Europe as wildcats, we've basically replaced a wild, killer species with a often shy and less of a good hunter - the domestic cat.

Maybe you should know, cats are actually classed along with dogs as species that self-domesticated. These are animals which strayed close to human settlements - dogs for scraps of food, cats for the rodents which inevitably came with human settlements.
Over time these animals which were the least weary of humans became the basis for the domesticated species. Once humans realised the value of dogs natural instincts for hunting and guarding they bred dogs for specific traits.
Likewise, they recognised the usefulness of cats in keeping the populations of rodents under control.

All the different colourations and variations of modern domestic pets are usually the result of genetic mutations in isolated populations of pets.
Before they accompanied humans these animals would have bred over a large area but with humans they became restricted to a smaller area where food was concentrated - the human settlements and surroundings.
It is only rather recently that these traits were purposefully bred and the modern breeds and variations we know today became standardised.

Originally most cats and dogs were what we'd call today as "mutts" and "crosses", with similarities becoming obvious between the animals in removed areas such as the different breeds of terriers in the formerly quite isolated English valleys - the dogs developed similarities because the breeding stock was small and there was little input from elsewhere.

Most of Britain's cats are basically crosses originally, only recently have they be standardised into breeds.
Every breed must start as a cross and only becomes a breed once it is standardised and recognised by an authority.

[Austin]

Austin, were you, by any chance, one of those special children who got a stiffy and came in your pants when you set fire on animals? :D


Not exactly..........but you did ask.


My grandmother had stray cats in her backyard and would catch them in one of those rectangular ground cages often. Now I do want to point out that my great grandmother would never do this, she'd always just shoot them. Anyways since it was hard to shoot through the cage when you had a really lively one, what my grandmother would do is get a dirt-tilling pitchfork from the shed and stick them through the cage. It did save a bullet I guess though just a .22 bullet so not a big deal there.

I personally always thought the above was much more humane though than how my uncle got rid of stray cats. He'd just throw the whole cage in a garbage can full of water and wait 10 minutes. That or he'd stick the cage to the gas fume of his car and put a tarp over it till it was dead.

I've never actually killed a cat. I've just sat there eating ice cream and watching when I was a boy. It was neat when they'd catch them, I'd always want to come over and watch.

I love dogs btw and everything else about nature and animals. I just don't see cats as good creatures. It's how I was raised. Cats are to be killed unless they are pets. I raised rabbits when younger so I know what cats can do to small mammals.

[Sabinae]

You have got to be joking....

[Austin]

You have got to be joking....

No way lol. All my family on my moms side kills stray cats. It's no big deal. It is how we were raised and many others around us were. It is our culture and is rather common in many areas in Texas and various other states in less urban areas.

Cats aren't seen as cuddly, good things on farms and ranches. Though on ranches cats are eaten by coyotes so you don't have to worry as much.

[Treffie]

No way lol. All my family on my moms side kills stray cats. It's no big deal. It is how we were raised and many others around us were. It is our culture and is rather common in many areas in Texas and various other states in less urban areas.


Was that why you had so many rats, mice and other vermin hanging around?

[Stars Down To Earth]

Was that why you had so many rats, mice and other vermin hanging around?
He's from Texas, vermin are practically their best friends. :tongue

[rhiannon]

Not exactly..........but you did ask.


My grandmother had stray cats in her backyard and would catch them in one of those rectangular ground cages often. Now I do want to point out that my great grandmother would never do this, she'd always just shoot them. Anyways since it was hard to shoot through the cage when you had a really lively one, what my grandmother would do is get a dirt-tilling pitchfork from the shed and stick them through the cage. It did save a bullet I guess though just a .22 bullet so not a big deal there.

I personally always thought the above was much more humane though than how my uncle got rid of stray cats. He'd just throw the whole cage in a garbage can full of water and wait 10 minutes. That or he'd stick the cage to the gas fume of his car and put a tarp over it till it was dead.

I've never actually killed a cat. I've just sat there eating ice cream and watching when I was a boy. It was neat when they'd catch them, I'd always want to come over and watch.

I love dogs btw and everything else about nature and animals. I just don't see cats as good creatures. It's how I was raised. Cats are to be killed unless they are pets. I raised rabbits when younger so I know what cats can do to small mammals.

People like those you describe in this post make me sick to my stomach and very angry. I know this is your family and all, but anyone who goes around doing that kind of crap deserves to die a horrible death, IMO. I'm sorry, but it is how I feel.

Animal cruelty is right up there with murder and rape. I really tried not to read this post, because it is THAT upsetting to me to see that people like your relatives exist and do these things to kitties.

'm sorry. I HATE people that are mean to animals like that. This is disgusting.

I know you hate cats. You have been raised to hate them. It is not entirely your fault, now that I know the background. All I can ask you is to PLEASE don't be cruel to kitties. Kitties are not bad animals. They are predators, just as owls, wolves, and umpteen other species. But, kitties truly brighten our lives if we let them in our hearts.

That is all.

[Stars Down To Earth]

I'd like to stick a pitchfork in Austin's grandmother...both for her cat-murders, and for producing him.

[Austin]

I'd like to stick a pitchfork in Austin's grandmother...both for her cat-murders, and for producing him.


Now you asked a question =)

Let me assure you there many more like my relatives multiplied by many millions who dislike cats in the U.S. in rural and non-rural areas.


It is our culture. Cats are vermin. It is not murder. They are animals. You cannot compare a human to an animal. That is not logical or humane.

[Mercury]

Except for the fact that Humans are animals. Seriously, I keep seeing this popping up on the board today. We're not fucking plants or fungi. We are A-N-I-M-A-L-S.

[Austin]

Except for the fact that Humans are animals. Seriously, I keep seeing this popping up on the board today. We're not fucking plants or fungi. We are A-N-I-M-A-L-S.


No I do not see you as an animal. Nor would a great majority of Americans or people on this planet.

[Albion]

Cats aren't seen as cuddly, good things on farms and ranches. Though on ranches cats are eaten by coyotes so you don't have to worry as much.

Um, on farms in England they're seen as good. We have a cat on our land, they take care of the mice trying to get at the grain stores and will also tackle smaller rats and rabbits too.

Stray cats might as well be killed if they can't be adopted, its simply euthanization that helps prevent over-population. Many of them are suffering anyway, a lot of cats are abandonned when they have something wrong with them and people can't afford the bills.
In the UK people abandon them like that, hoping that the RSPCA will find them I suppose, it's wrong. The problem is more to do with humans allowing to many pets to breed in order to make money from selling the offspring, it leads to over-population.
Cats can cause a nusiance if the numbers get out of hand and if man has taken away the natural vectors which kill them off (the case in England).

Women get too emotional, someone I know saved three turkeys last christmas, now she's stuck with them because she won't take them to the butchers and no one will buy them.
People need to think about things logically sometimes instaead of getting all emotional about it.