How similar is Estonian culture to Swedish or Finnish culture? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

Sahson

08-04-2011, 12:13 PM

Finland is culturally nordic, like Sweden. I can not comment on Estonia, though we know Karl's opinion.

Estonia's closest ties to Finland is (a) the language is very similiar, and shares plenty of root words, though some are pronounced differently the mutually intelligibility between the two languages Is like comparing Swedish to Faroese or Icelandic. Genetically Estonia mitochrondrial dna link is similiar to Finland, however the Y-chromosome has little correlation whatsoever. Culturally, I don't know.

on another note...

http://satwcomic.com/art/party-crasher.jpg

Äike

08-04-2011, 12:38 PM

Finland is culturally nordic, like Sweden. I can not comment on Estonia, though we know Karl's opinion.

...There are barely any differences between Estonian- and Finnish culture. How can both belong into different groups?

the mutually intelligibility between the two languages Is like comparing Swedish to Faroese or Icelandic.

Not quite...

on another note...

http://satwcomic.com/art/party-crasher.jpg

Notice how "Estonia" is a female? There's this Baltic concept(that we, the Estonians, haven't heard about) that the 3 "Baltic countries" are called "3 sisters".
Anyway, my point is, the creator of that image lacks any knowledge about my people and I don't know how a Dane can know about the "3 Baltic sisters" concept if even an Estonian has no clue about it(I found out that something like that even exists, after viewing that image and reading some comments somewhere).

That image = successful Baltic/Latvian/Lithuanian propaganda.

On another note... I'll draw a picture where Germany is Slavic and whenever anyone disagrees, I'll show him the picture and say "see, I drew a picture! pictures can't be wrong!". :p

Gaztelu

08-04-2011, 04:45 PM

http://satwcomic.com/art/party-crasher.jpg

What amuses me the most about this comic is that Sister Estonia brought Vodka instead of an Estonian beverage.

Is Estonia's Soviet legacy tarnishing their Nordic identity? :tongue

Äike

08-04-2011, 04:49 PM

What amuses me the most about this comic is that Sister Estonia brought Vodka instead of an Estonian beverage.

Is Estonia's Soviet legacy bringing their Nordicness down? :tongue

Drinking vodka is a Nordic(Sweden, Norway, Estonia, Finland etc. are in the vodka belt) thing and Estonia being "a sister" is a Baltic concept that's completely new/puzzling to us, non-Balts. I wouldn't even know about it, like your average Estonian, if I wouldn't have stumbled upon this on the internet.

The creator of that picture also thinks that wife carrying is a Swedish sport, although during 15 years, the Estonians have won it 11 times in a row from 1998 to 2008. The Finns won 4 times in 1997 and from 2009 to 2011.

Ignorance is a fun thing on the internet and some love spreading it.

Eldritch

08-04-2011, 08:03 PM

The creator of that picture also thinks that wife carrying is a Swedish sport, although during 15 years, the Estonians have won it 11 times in a row from 1998 to 2008. The Finns won 4 times in 1997 and from 2009 to 2011.

Ignorance is a fun thing on the internet and some love spreading it.

Wife carrying = invented by Finns, perfected by Estonians, as someone (you?) so aptly put it years ago.

Anyone trying to organise any event in Sweden that acknowledges gender differences in any way, would probably have their assets seized by the state and find themselves attending mandatory sensitivity training 19 times a week. :p

Sahson

08-05-2011, 01:59 AM

Wife carrying = invented by Finns, perfected by Estonians, as someone (you?) so aptly put it years ago.

Anyone trying to organise any event in Sweden that acknowledges gender differences in any way, would probably have their assets seized by the state and find themselves attending mandatory sensitivity training 19 times a week. :p

http://satwcomic.com/art/sports-in-finland.jpg

Albion

08-05-2011, 10:26 AM

That image = successful Baltic/Latvian/Lithuanian propaganda

Not really, that's how most of Europe see's Estonia - that little country that wishes it was Nordic.
It's not Baltic propoganda, that's how everyone who knows Estonia from abroad see it. Even before I saw any of this propoganda years ago I saw all the silly attempts of Estonians to try and be Nordic simply by propposing a Nordic cross as the flag and by saying they should join the Nordic Council.

It makes you into a laughing stock, it's like when Slovakians try to claim Slovakia is Celtic simply because Celtic tribes once lived there, amussing but kind of sad. :thumb001:

El Palleter

08-05-2011, 10:58 AM

What's so wrong with being Baltic?

It's not just Estonians. If you take Inese (Latvian?) she also seems to want to be something else. But I don't know if it's just her or a more or less spread feeling among Latvians.

So far only Lithuanians appear to be happy with being themselves.

It makes you into a laughing stock, it's like when Slovakians try to claim Slovakia is Celtic simply because Celtic tribes once lived there, amussing but kind of sad. :thumb001:I had heard that from Germans but never from Slovakians.

Albion

08-05-2011, 11:08 AM

What's so wrong with being Baltic?

Nothing, that's the point everyone tries to make on here to Karl.

It's not just Estonians. If you take Inese (Latvian?) she also seems to want to be something else. But I don't know if it's just her or a more or less spread feeling among Latvians.

Well she does claim to be part German, maybe she prefers Germany to Latvia. Well, Balticus doesn't seem to be bothered much about being a Balt. I don't see anything wrong with it.

So far only Lithuanians appear to be happy with being themselves.
I had heard that from Germans but never from Slovakians.

Yeah, I've seen it. They claim to be "rediscovering" long dead links to the Celts when they're Slavs and that's all they'll ever be.

poiuytrewq0987

08-05-2011, 11:32 AM

An Englishman just said Estonia isn't Nordic. Game over Karl. ;)

Mordid

08-05-2011, 11:40 AM

Nothing, that's the point everyone tries to make on here to Karl.

Well she does claim to be part German, maybe she prefers Germany to Latvia. Well, Balticus doesn't seem to be bothered much about being a Balt. I don't see anything wrong with it.

Yeah, I've seen it. They claim to be "rediscovering" long dead links to the Celts when they're Slavs and that's all they'll ever be.

Where did you heard this from ? :confused:

Albion

08-08-2011, 12:09 PM

Where did you heard this from ? :confused:

Lol, what's up? You worried the Pan-Slavicists there are turning Celtic? :D
I read it on a website, I'll try and find it again. All what's coming up now is Ireland Vs Slovakia sports results.

Talvi

08-08-2011, 12:13 PM

Blablabla.

try talking to someone about what Estonia is like to someone who has actually been here and the neighbouring countries.

Ive yet to meet a foreign exchange student who thinks Latvia and Lithuania are super similar to Estonia. Most of them see Latvia and especially Lithuania as scary dumps.

Albion

08-08-2011, 12:20 PM

Talvi

08-08-2011, 12:21 PM

Estonia is seen as being different from Latvia and Lithuania but it isn't seen as Nordic.

And never in my life have I said that Estonia is Nordic.

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 12:28 PM

And never in my life have I said that Estonia is Nordic.

Estonia is seen as being different from Latvia and Lithuania but it isn't seen as Nordic.

You must discern between most Estonians, who don't identify as "Baltic" in any meta-ethnic sense, and Karl, who thinks that it if they aren't Baltic, they can only be Nordic. ;)

poiuytrewq0987

08-08-2011, 12:30 PM

And never in my life have I said that Estonia is Nordic.

I think he was more responding to Karl's Nordic propaganda than yours. I don't think Estonia is a Nordic country as well. It's more of a Baltic Finnic country whereas the other two countries are just Baltic.

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 12:33 PM

I think he was more responding to Karl's Nordic propaganda than yours. I don't think Estonia is a Nordic country as well. It's more of a Baltic Finnic country whereas the other two countries are just Baltic.

Nordic and Baltic Finnish are not mutually exclusive: see Finland. Estonia is meta-ethnically Baltic Finnish, geographically Baltic and it wishes to be geopolitically Nordic.

Albion

08-08-2011, 12:40 PM

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 12:40 PM

Wishes being the key word here.

Well what else can it be at this stage? In the future, they might well be regarded as 'Nordic,' if they join the Nordic Council for example, as full members.

poiuytrewq0987

08-08-2011, 12:42 PM

Nordic and Baltic Finnish are not mutually exclusive: see Finland. Estonia is meta-ethnically Baltic Finnish, geographically Baltic and it wishes to be geopolitically Nordic.

Finland is certainly Nordic thanks to centuries of Swedish occupation and the recent push to Nordicise the country during the Cold War to use Finland as a buffer against the USSR for Sweden.

Estonia on the other hand couldn't be really used as a buffer against the USSR as it is far too small population-wise and it was already under Soviet rule.

Ultimately, Estonia needs Sweden more than Sweden needs Estonia. This wasn't the case with Finland when it proved that it could stand up to Russia with its decapitated officers corps.

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 12:55 PM

Finland is certainly Nordic thanks to centuries of Swedish occupation and the recent push to Nordicise the country during the Cold War to use Finland as a buffer against the USSR for Sweden.

You are confusing two issues: culture and geopolitics. "The Nordic orientation" was the only possible non-Socialist Bloc orientation available for Finland and it had little to do with culture. Whatever cultural reasons are used to justify it are rather offensive to Finns, in my opinion. As if the Finns can be accepted as Nordics only through the grace of their Swedish-speaking minority. If only Scandinavians are Nordic, then obviously, Finns are not. But if we use Nordic as something more than an ethnocultural signifier, then also Estonia can with time become Nordic.

Estonia on the other hand couldn't be really used as a buffer against the USSR as it is far too small population-wise and it was already under Soviet rule.

But now Estonia is actively campaigning to brand itself Nordic, to increase ties with the Nordic countries and to join the Nordic Council. That's what is relevant.

Ultimately, Estonia needs Sweden more than Sweden needs Estonia. This wasn't the case with Finland when it proved that it could stand up to Russia with its decapitated officers corps.

Irrelevant.

Talvi

08-08-2011, 01:11 PM

Estonia is seen as being different from Latvia and Lithuania but it isn't seen as Nordic.

Oh and yeah Ive never met a person who has never been here and thinks Estonia is different from Latvia and Lithuania. People think we are one big blob.

Stupid people even come here and think were are Russians or are surprised when they find out people in the Baltics dont all speak the same language.

Sorry, yeah I dont really feel like identifying myself with such BS.

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 01:57 PM

Oh and yeah Ive never met a person who has never been here and thinks Estonia is different from Latvia and Lithuania. People think we are one big blob.

Stupid people even come here and think were are Russians or are surprised when they find out people in the Baltics dont all speak the same language.

Sorry, yeah I dont really feel like identifying myself with such BS.

Change your [Estonia's] name to Finland Jr and witness the magic. ;)

Btw, I think it is unbelievable, that people who come as exchange students, tourists, etc know next to nothing about the place they're going to.

Groenewolf

08-08-2011, 02:00 PM

Btw, I think it is unbelievable, that people who come as exchange students, tourists, etc know next to nothing about the place they're going to.

You would expect that they have an interest in to going to a certain place, even more so for those students, they have at least some interest in knowing at least something of the place.

The Ripper

08-08-2011, 02:02 PM

You would expect that they have an interest in to going to a certain place, even more so for those students, they have at least some interest in knowing at least something of the place.

Indeed.

The Ripper

08-18-2011, 08:06 PM

lolwat?

2oMGErAHZsI

The Ripper

08-18-2011, 08:18 PM

So?

Don't be such a Karl. Will it make you feel better if I tell you that in the minds of many Finns, Estonia is associated with cheap liquor and prostitutes?

Peerkons

08-18-2011, 08:20 PM

And what it has to do with Talvis answer that foreign exchange students see Latvia and Lithuania as a dump even thou Estonia is almost the same country as Latvia?
I'd call that bullshit.

The Ripper

08-18-2011, 08:23 PM

And what it has to do with Talvis answer that foreign exchange students see Latvia and Lithuania as a dump even thou Estonia is almost the same country as Latvia?

Its not Talvi's fault if they tell her they think Latvia and Lithuania are dumps.

Peerkons

08-18-2011, 08:25 PM

It's just another Estonia is better than anything in the world bullshit.
Another way to express their fucking snob attitude, like their shit is better than mine.
Fuck no. You can stick up your noses and think of youselves as whatever you want.
But inside you'll know what you really are.

Peerkons

08-18-2011, 08:26 PM

Latvia and Lithuania je the cheapest country in Baltic.

In fact, Latvia is the most expensive country in Baltics, so before you try to look smart better get some information.

Mordid

08-18-2011, 08:30 PM

In fact, Latvia is the most expensive country in Baltics, so before you try to look smart better get some information.

What information ? I dont need information, of course. Compare to Latvia, Poland is the most expensive country in Balto-Slavic country.

Peerkons

08-18-2011, 08:35 PM

You don't need information?!
What the hell that means? What this even has to do with Poland?
Is your brain capable of thinking? So far it seems that the answer ir NO.
And there is no such thing as Balto-Slavic. :coffee:That is invented by soviets and I don't mind your wet dreams about us being connected, but that is just simply not true. ;)

Talvi

08-19-2011, 10:08 AM

And what it has to do with Talvis answer that foreign exchange students see Latvia and Lithuania as a dump even thou Estonia is almost the same country as Latvia?
I'd call that bullshit.

Im sorry but are you a complete moron?

In your fucking dreams.

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 11:25 AM

Compare - which country is most similar to Estonia?
I'm not talking about language or nordic mentality
lol

Mordid

08-19-2011, 11:26 AM

Compare - which country is the most similar to Estonia?
I'm not talking about language or nordic mentality
lol

Latvia ?:icon_ask:

Eldritch

08-19-2011, 11:27 AM

I would think that the language spoken, and the general mentality of the people are pretty essential things to take into consideration when making comparisons between countries?

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 11:36 AM

Infrastructure and values

Talvi

08-19-2011, 11:44 AM

Infrastructure and values

And what values are those may I ask???

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 12:15 PM

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a9OgLbIsBns/TTPf-lSAIFI/AAAAAAAAAMU/5RYWP5kirOM/s400/image001.gif

Äike

08-19-2011, 12:55 PM

Don't be such a Karl. Will it make you feel better if I tell you that in the minds of many Finns, Estonia is associated with cheap liquor and Russian prostitutes?

Fixed.

And what it has to do with Talvis answer that foreign exchange students see Latvia and Lithuania as a dump even thou Estonia is almost the same country as Latvia?
I'd call that bullshit.

Estonia is noticeably different from Latvia. Either be it economically, culturally or linguistically. There's one thing that's similar between our 2 countries, that's history.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_a9OgLbIsBns/TTPf-lSAIFI/AAAAAAAAAMU/5RYWP5kirOM/s400/image001.gif

That chart is BS.

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 12:59 PM

Fixed.

Estonia is noticeably different from Latvia. Either be it economically, culturally or linguistically. There's one thing that's similar between our 2 countries, that's history.
That chart is BS.

When I went to Estonia I almost didn't felt any difference between Latvia.
Only the signs, language and better roads.:D

Sure, everything you say is absolute true. :coffee:

Äike

08-19-2011, 01:30 PM

When I went to Estonia I almost didn't felt any difference between Latvia.
Only the signs, language and better roads.:D

Sure, everything you say is absolute true. :coffee:

Cool story, bro.

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2011, 01:32 PM

Cool story, bro.

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/11/24/9963c378-0294-43b8-97d9-126bbb0d695e.jpg

Now go back to getting ready for high school, kid.

Äike

08-19-2011, 01:56 PM

http://images.cheezburger.com/completestore/2010/11/24/9963c378-0294-43b8-97d9-126bbb0d695e.jpg

Hmmm... Not really. It's pretty much a fact that we aren't Balts. Labeling ethnicities with wrong words disrespects them.

The Estonians aren't Balts, the Serbs aren't Turks, the Swedes aren't Slavic, the Portuguese aren't Germanic and so on. European people have different ethnical, linguistic and cultural backgrounds, which differentiate from each other.

You're still a troll, I see, meddling with topics that you cannot grasp.

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2011, 01:59 PM

Hmmm... Not really. It's pretty much a fact that we aren't Balts. Labeling ethnicities with wrong words disrespects them.

The Estonians aren't Balts, the Serbs aren't Turks, the Swedes aren't Slavic, the Portuguese aren't Germanic and so on. European people have different ethnical, linguistic and cultural backgrounds, which differentiate from each other.

You're still a troll, I see, meddling with topics that you cannot grasp.

Oh god, the things I could say... :D

Äike

08-19-2011, 02:06 PM

Oh god, the things I could say... :D

Or you could find yourself a hobby and stop trolling different ethnicities.

If I would base my opinion about Serbs about you, I would think that they're a nasty bunch of people, but I know that you're just some random guy living in the US and you barely have any ties with Serbia. Luckily this forum has a considerable number of proper Serbians, who are all very nice people.

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 02:06 PM

Äike

08-19-2011, 02:08 PM

Where have I said that?

By saying that there's no difference between Estonia and Latvia.

Now bugger off with your Serbian, Balto-Slavic bloodbrother.

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2011, 02:10 PM

Or you could find yourself a hobby and stop trolling different ethnicities.

If I would base my opinion about Serbs about you, I would think that they're a nasty bunch of people, but I know that you're just some random guy living in the US and you barely have any ties with Serbia. Luckily this forum has a considerable number of proper Serbians, who are all very nice people.

:rofl:

I don't "barely have any ties" with Serbia. I have plenty. You're just a stupid teenager nerd preaching us on bullshit though it is pretty funny at times. :D

Östsvensk

08-19-2011, 02:16 PM

The Estonians are ethnically a Finnic or Baltic Finnish people, even though it happens that they are called Balts. If it makes you sleep better, Karl, it happens that the Finns are called Balts (or even "Slavs") as well. Ignorance can be hilarious at times. ;)

As for the term Nordic, you can't apply it on a country or ethnic group just because it's related to a country that is Nordic. The Dutch are very similar to the Scandinavians, and they are not Nordic but rather "continental".

Foreningen Norden (Norwegian and Danish), Föreningen Norden (Swedish), Norræna félagið (Icelandic), Norrøna Felagið (Faroese) or Pohjola-Norden (Finnish), The Nordic Association, is an organization in the Nordic countries which exists to promote civil cooperation between the Nordic countries. It was established in 1919, and has sections in Sweden, Norway, Denmark (inclusive Southern Schleswig), Finland, Iceland, Greenland, the Faroe Islands and Åland. Since 1965 these national branches are grouped in an umbrella organization Foreningene Nordens Forbund.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Foreningen_Norden

Äike

08-19-2011, 02:16 PM

:rofl:

I don't "barely have any ties" with Serbia. I have plenty.

Do you live in Serbia?

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2011, 02:18 PM

Do you live in Serbia?

Sod off, teenager.

Äike

08-19-2011, 02:27 PM

Sod off, teenager.

You're the teenager here.

I like being anonymous on the internet. I could be 12, 32, or 52. ;) Anyway, I am not going to foreclose my real age, nor my identity, just because you think that I am a teenager.

Enjoy your day, troll.

poiuytrewq0987

08-19-2011, 02:29 PM

You're the teenager here.

I like being anonymous on the internet. I could be 12, 32, or 52. ;) Anyway, I am not going to foreclose my real age, nor my identity, just because you think that I am a teenager.

Enjoy your day, troll.

Yeah sure, enjoy your little pitiful fantasy feeling all superior and all that. :thumb001:

Waidewut

08-19-2011, 04:17 PM

Fixed.

Estonia is noticeably different from Latvia. Either be it economically, culturally or linguistically. There's one thing that's similar between our 2 countries, that's history.

That chart is BS.

Lol, I would rather say that the only main differences between Estonians and Latvians is the language.
For example:
Latvia is mostly protestant Christians, just like Estonia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Protestentism_By_Country_Percent.png
You also must be familiar with Kristjan Jaak Peterson, who is regarded as the herald of Estonian national literature and the founder of modern Estonian poetry. He was born in Riga and died here also. I can also name several Latvians, the contributors of our national Awakening who have studied in Tartu.
Also if we compare our economies you are not so different from the Latvia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GNI_%28nomin al%29_per_capita
Estonia's economy isn't so much different from Latvia's economy either. Sure your GDP per capita is bigger than in Latvia but you cant compare yourself to Finland, for example, whos GDP per capita is 2 to 3 times bigger than Estonias GDP per capita
We also share the same history since the 13th century since the Baltic Germans became the Landlords and masters of the Estonians and Latvians

Äike

08-19-2011, 04:44 PM

Lol, I would rather say that the only main differences between Estonians and Latvians is the language.

+ ethnic origin and cultural background

For example:
Latvia is mostly protestant Christians, just like Estonia.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/4/4a/Protestentism_By_Country_Percent.png

Estonia is "fully Lutheran", like other Northern-European countries, while Latvia is 50/50 Lutheran/Catholic

You also must be familiar with Kristjan Jaak Peterson, who is regarded as the herald of Estonian national literature and the founder of modern Estonian poetry. He was born in Riga and died here also.

When Riga was founded, it was Livonian. Anyway, he was an Estonian, not a Latvian. Do you know that the current Estonian president was born in Stockholm, Sweden? Does this automatically make the Estonians even more closer to the Swedes?

I can also name several Latvians, the contributors of our national Awakening who have studied in Tartu.

That's because Tartu was one of the oldest universities in Northern-Europe and the 2nd oldest university in the Swedish empire. Even Germans from Germany studied in Tartu, also Russians, Estonians, Latvians, Finns etc.

Also if we compare our economies you are not so different from the Latvia.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_sovereign_states_in_Europe_by_GNI_%28nomin al%29_per_capita
Estonia's economy isn't so much different from Latvia's economy either. Sure your GDP per capita is bigger than in Latvia but you cant compare yourself to Finland, for example, whos GDP per capita is 2 to 3 times bigger than Estonias GDP per capita

The average Estonian has a 30% bigger salary than the average Latvian. Comparing Estonia with countries like Ukraine is also quite pointless. Yes, economically we aren't that different, but Estonia visibly holds the edge over the other "Baltic" countries with its economic situation. The Estonian economy was the fastest growing economy of Europe from 2000 to 2010, EVEN with the big drop in 2008 and 2009. Even now, in 2011, Estonia has the fastest growing economy of Europe. Also, our economy is rated very highly, including by Latvians.

We also share the same history since the 13th century since the Baltic Germans became the Landlords and masters of the Estonians and Latvians

Our history is so "identical", that Tallinn means "Danish town" and you see Dannebrogs in official Northern-Estonian/Harjumaa symbolics. Like the coat of arms of Tallinn, coat of arms of surrounding parishes etc.

Our history isn't exactly the same. Even different parts of Estonia have a different history.

Peerkons

08-19-2011, 05:06 PM

Bullshit about the 30% higher salary.
Also all other things you say is bullshit.

Treffie

08-19-2011, 05:18 PM

Bullshit about the 30% higher salary.

According to this article (http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-europe-14489883), Estonia's GDP is 30% higher than that of Latvia. Don't see any bullshit here. Use the compare list, it's easy.

Äike

08-19-2011, 05:18 PM

Bullshit about the 30% higher salary.
Also all other things you say is bullshit.

It's impossible to disprove the truth, huh? I remember even proving to you that Estonians are ~30% richer than the Balts. Do you have a short memory or what?

Talvi

08-19-2011, 05:46 PM

I never knew Latvians were so goddamn crazy.

Then again being a Estonian it is normal not to have met any Latvians. :P

Waidewut

08-19-2011, 06:37 PM

Estonia is "fully Lutheran", like other Northern-European countries, while Latvia is 50/50 Lutheran/Catholic

I will remind you that that only Latvians from Latgale are completely catholic, because Latgale has been under a huge Polish and Lithuanian cultural influence.
They have their own dialect that I do not understand and are culturally different from the rest of Latvians. Latvians from the other 3 regions -Vidzeme, Zemgale and Kurzeme are more Lutheran then Catholic.

Anyway, he was an Estonian, not a Latvian. Do you know that the current Estonian president was born in Stockholm, Sweden? Does this automatically make the Estonians even more closer to the Swedes?

No, but it shows that Latvians and Estonians highly interacted with each other, by getting educated in the same universities.

The average Estonian has a 30% bigger salary than the average Latvian. Comparing Estonia with countries like Ukraine is also quite pointless. Yes, economically we aren't that different, but Estonia visibly holds the edge over the other "Baltic" countries with its economic situation. The Estonian economy was the fastest growing economy of Europe from 2000 to 2010, EVEN with the big drop in 2008 and 2009. Even now, in 2011, Estonia has the fastest growing economy of Europe. Also, our economy is rated very highly, including by Latvians.

I never compared Estonia's economy with countries like Ukraine. I meant to say that that if I had to choose with which economies is the Estonian one the most similar, I would say Latvian and Lithuanian.

Our history is so "identical", that Tallinn means "Danish town" and you see Dannebrogs in official Northern-Estonian/Harjumaa symbolics. Like the coat of arms of Tallinn, coat of arms of surrounding parishes etc.

After the Baltic Germans became the landlords of all Latvians, the Latvians didn't experience no exact Swedish/Russian/Polish-Lithuanian rule and culture over them. The Barons continued to be German and they were basically the only foreign nation that influenced the Latvians directly. Because peasants had nothing to do with Swedish/Russian/Polish-Lithuanian nobility and administration. Estonians share the same cruel fate as the Latvians- being almost slaves to foreign nations, but I have never heard of Danish barons in Estonia. Were there many Danish landowners that had any deal with the Estonians in Estonia, when it was under Danish rule? Because if Estonia was only some property of the king of Denmark, I see know cultural influence the Estonian peasants got from the Danes.

Waidewut

08-19-2011, 06:40 PM

Estonia is "fully Lutheran", like other Northern-European countries, while Latvia is 50/50 Lutheran/Catholic

I will remind you that that only Latvians from Latgale are completely catholic, because Latgale has been under a huge Polish and Lithuanian cultural influence.
They have their own dialect that I do not understand and are culturally different from the rest of Latvians. Latvians from the other 3 regions -Vidzeme, Zemgale and Kurzeme are more Lutheran then Catholic.

Anyway, he was an Estonian, not a Latvian. Do you know that the current Estonian president was born in Stockholm, Sweden? Does this automatically make the Estonians even more closer to the Swedes?

No, but it shows that Latvians and Estonians highly interacted with each other, by getting educated in the same universities.

The average Estonian has a 30% bigger salary than the average Latvian. Comparing Estonia with countries like Ukraine is also quite pointless. Yes, economically we aren't that different, but Estonia visibly holds the edge over the other "Baltic" countries with its economic situation. The Estonian economy was the fastest growing economy of Europe from 2000 to 2010, EVEN with the big drop in 2008 and 2009. Even now, in 2011, Estonia has the fastest growing economy of Europe. Also, our economy is rated very highly, including by Latvians.

I never compared Estonia's economy with countries like Ukraine. I meant to say that that if I had to choose with which economies is the Estonian one the most similar, I would say Latvian and Lithuanian.

Our history is so "identical", that Tallinn means "Danish town" and you see Dannebrogs in official Northern-Estonian/Harjumaa symbolics. Like the coat of arms of Tallinn, coat of arms of surrounding parishes etc.

After the Baltic Germans became the landlords of all Latvians, the Latvians didn't experience no exact Swedish/Russian/Polish-Lithuanian rule and culture over them. The Barons continued to be German and they were basically the only foreign nation that influenced the Latvians directly,until the 1800's. Because peasants had nothing to do with Swedish/Russian/Polish-Lithuanian nobility and administration. Estonians share the same cruel fate as the Latvians- being almost slaves to foreign nations, but I have never heard of Danish barons in Estonia. Were there many Danish landowners that had any deal with the Estonians in Estonia, when it was under Danish rule? Because if Estonia was only some property of the king of Denmark, I see no cultural influence the Estonian peasants might have gotten the Danes.