Possible Middle Eastern ancestry?

[Ljubic]

My dad gets weird scores which dont fit in with the rest of his result breakdown.

First his high Red Sea on Eurogenes K13:
Red_Sea 3.45 Pct

Then the scores on 23andMe:
https://i.imgur.com/mh5tVGO.jpg

Also G25:
https://i.imgur.com/ZNUEe8n.jpg

Could this be the result of some unknown middle eastern ancestor or part of some native balkan admixture?

Just curious of some opinions.

[Insuperable]

Can you post results of various gedmatch calculators?

[Adamm]

Can you post full K13 and full K36?

[TheOldNorth]

obviously he has like 1 turk ancestor from 400 years ago or something

[Insuperable]

I found results of your dad you posted in your 23andme thread. I can erase them if you don't want me to show them publicly.

Eurogenes K13

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 31.45
2 North_Atlantic 20.75
3 East_Med 16.22
4 West_Med 15.23
5 West_Asian 10.97
6 Red_Sea 4.54

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Serbian @ 8.133100
2 Moldavian @ 8.158525
3 Romanian @ 8.702277
4 Bulgarian @ 9.311501
5 Croatian @ 11.420136
6 Hungarian @ 14.299905
7 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 17.589355
8 Greek_Thessaly @ 18.671915
9 Austrian @ 19.013071
10 Ukrainian @ 19.103321
11 South_Polish @ 19.152969
12 East_German @ 20.266310
13 Southwest_Russian @ 21.514219
14 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 21.646276
15 Polish @ 22.649935
16 Tatar @ 23.050436
17 Russian_Smolensk @ 24.047909
18 Estonian_Polish @ 24.655935
19 North_Italian @ 25.358210
20 Belorussian @ 25.382063

Eurogenes K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Baltic 23.07
2 North_Sea 18.30
3 East_Med 14.45
4 West_Med 11.35
5 Eastern_Euro 10.86
6 West_Asian 9.27
7 Atlantic 8.57
8 Red_Sea 3.94

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Moldavian @ 10.195410
2 Romanian @ 10.893278
3 Bulgarian @ 12.216893
4 Serbian @ 12.262586
5 Croatian @ 13.481596
6 Hungarian @ 14.162113
7 Ukrainian_Lviv @ 16.291906
8 Greek_Thessaly @ 17.352713
9 Ukrainian @ 17.835049
10 Austrian @ 17.971149
11 South_Polish @ 18.404079
12 Greek @ 20.294704
13 Ukrainian_Belgorod @ 20.767210
14 East_German @ 20.872385
15 Southwest_Russian @ 21.543428
16 Russian_Smolensk @ 21.643198
17 Polish @ 21.728180
18 Belorussian @ 23.455805
19 Ashkenazi @ 23.878849
20 Estonian_Polish @ 24.072868

Eurogenes K36

Population
Amerindian -
Arabian 4.03 Pct
Armenian 0.21 Pct
Basque 1.86 Pct
Central_African -
Central_Euro 7.27 Pct
East_African -
East_Asian -
East_Balkan 8.90 Pct
East_Central_Asian -
East_Central_Euro 19.69 Pct
East_Med 5.37 Pct
Eastern_Euro 7.02 Pct
Fennoscandian 3.21 Pct
French 4.44 Pct
Iberian 2.80 Pct
Indo-Chinese -
Italian 18.79 Pct
Malayan -
Near_Eastern 1.07 Pct
North_African 1.37 Pct
North_Atlantic 6.19 Pct
North_Caucasian 0.31 Pct
North_Sea 2.02 Pct
Northeast_African -
Oceanian -
Omotic -
Pygmy -
Siberian -
South_Asian -
South_Central_Asian -
South_Chinese -
Volga-Ural 0.41 Pct
West_African -
West_Caucasian 4.14 Pct
West_Med 0.91 Pct

PuntDNAL K15

Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 NE_European 49.18
2 Mediterranean 26.54
3 Caucasian 11.06
4 SW_Asian 10.20
5 Horn_Of_Africa 2.31

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Croatian @ 7.939699
2 Serbian @ 8.858267
3 Hungarian @ 8.904469
4 Austrian @ 9.196777
5 Bosnian @ 10.054993
6 Slovenian @ 10.156669
7 South_German @ 10.760468
8 Utahn_White @ 11.136331
9 Irish @ 11.506269
10 Orcadian @ 11.854652
11 French @ 11.976624
12 English @ 12.206156
13 Macedonian @ 12.240404
14 North_German @ 13.128700
15 Romanian @ 13.579771
16 Scottish @ 13.680044
17 Bulgarian @ 14.030741
18 Norwegian @ 14.288017
19 Montenegrin @ 15.629291
20 Swedish @ 16.071339


Full Eurogenes K15
Population
North_Sea 18.30 Pct
Atlantic 8.57 Pct
Baltic 23.07 Pct
Eastern_Euro 10.86 Pct
West_Med 11.35 Pct
West_Asian 9.27 Pct
East_Med 14.45 Pct
Red_Sea 3.94 Pct
South_Asian -
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian -
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African 0.20 Pct
Sub-Saharan -

Hard to make out anything. I think it is possible he has Sephardic Jewish ancestry like Hrvoje wrote in that thread. It makes the only sense. He really does have high 'Arabian'. Really strange case.

Does he have elevated Ashkenazi percentage on Eurogenes JTest? I however don't know what Sephardic Jews score on that one.

[Insuperable]

obviously he has like 1 turk ancestor from 400 years ago or something

One Turkish ancestor that far wouldn't show in his results. His father on gedmatch scores very low or none Far Asian, but high Arabian which is where the fuss is.

[marco]

One Turkish ancestor that far wouldn't show in his results. His father on gedmatch scores very low or none Far Asian, but high Arabian which is where the fuss is.
You have G25 I can run a model for you

[Insuperable]

You have G25 I can run a model for you

Ask Ljubic.

[Seya]

i don't get it. where is the middle easten ancestry?

[Adamm]

i don't get it. where is the middle easten ancestry?

Red_Sea

He also has high Arabian + A bit North_African on K36.

[Seya]

Red_Sea

He also has high Arabian + A bit North_African on K36.

my red sea is higher and i have understood it's in the norm for this region. it is a whole thread about this. i haven't seen the other results but 23andme doesn't show any of this

[marco]

my red sea is higher and i have understood it's in the norm for this region. it is a whole thread about this. i haven't seen the other results but 23andme doesn't show any of this
23 and me only goes back 200 to 500 years to make people feel happy about there ethnicity, you can pass as an Arab in that picture by they way

[marco]

Ask Ljubic.

Who’s that anyway if you want me to run you a model just pm me bro I specialise in Middle Eastern dna

[Insuperable]

Who’s that anyway if you want me to run you a model just pm me bro I specialise in Middle Eastern dna

Bruh, Ljubic is guy who opened this thread asking about his dad.

[Dick]

You have G25 I can run a model for you


Ask Ljubic.


Who’s that anyway if you want me to run you a model just pm me bro I specialise in Middle Eastern dna


Bruh, Ljubic is guy who opened this thread asking about his dad.

:dielaughing:

[marco]

Bruh, Ljubic is guy who opened this thread asking about his dad.
Cocaine is a hell of a drug

[marco]

My dad gets weird scores which dont fit in with the rest of his result breakdown.

First his high Red Sea on Eurogenes K13:
Red_Sea 3.45 Pct

Then the scores on 23andMe:
https://i.imgur.com/mh5tVGO.jpg

Also G25:
https://i.imgur.com/ZNUEe8n.jpg

Could this be the result of some unknown middle eastern ancestor or part of some native balkan admixture?

Just curious of some opinions.
G25 cords

[Insuperable]

Cocaine is a hell of a drug

Lay off the drugs.

[Ljubic]

This one is his K13 with 23andMe v3
Population
North_Atlantic 23.37 Pct
Baltic 31.99 Pct
West_Med 15.85 Pct
West_Asian 9.54 Pct
East_Med 13.45 Pct
Red_Sea 3.45 Pct
South_Asian 0.64 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.75 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.06 Pct
Northeast_African 0.06 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.83 Pct

And those are his G25 cords:
Ljubic_dad_scaled,0.121791,0.133034,0.0445,0.02390 2,0.032929,0.007251,0.00611,0.009923,0.002659,-0.002734,-0.00406,-0.009442,0.006987,0.017203,-0.014929,0.008618,0.021905,-0.001647,0.002514,0.005253,-0.010107,-0.000495,0.003697,0.003374,-0.000239

[Pater Patota]

I get 3.32 Arabian and 3.65 Red sea due to Anatolian, Kurd, Armenian ancestry.I believe your dad has some MENA background.

[Mingle]

At 3.45%, his Red Sea is a bit high but I don't think its anything too extreme. I've seen West Balkanites scoring Red Sea in the 3% range and there are some East Balkanites that score 4-5% Red Sea according to Kaspias.

I'm not that familiar with the Arabian component on Eurogenes K36, but its only slightly higher than his Red Sea component, so it probably doesn't mean much. If his Red Sea is normal, then his Arabian is probably also normal.

I can't make any conclusions on his 23andMe. 0.5% seems a bit high to be noise, but not too high. And even though they claim they only go back around 300 years, that's not true since many Euros from the far south get significant West Asian.

Anyways, if he has any Jewish ancestry, then it should show probably show up among his closest matches on GEDmatch. Just look for people with German surnames and then check their results on K13 to confirm they're Jewish.

[Ljubic]

Anyway here is his JTest.

1 SOUTH_BALTIC 23.48
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 16.25
3 ATLANTIC 12.57
4 EAST_EURO 11.71
5 WEST_MED 11.4
6 EAST_MED 10.92
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.65
8 MIDDLE_EASTERN 3.62
9 ASHKENAZI 2.51
10 WEST_AFRICAN 0.47
11 SIBERIAN 0.35
12 EAST_AFRICAN 0.07

His Ashkenazi is much lower than the Hungarian average which he is the closest to. Serbs too have an average score of 4% so i guess thats not it. Looking at the Middle Eastern score though it shows a score which is double the Serbian average. The weird thing is that he doesnt match any Middle Eastern people at all.

[Insuperable]

Anyway here is his JTest.

1 SOUTH_BALTIC 23.48
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 16.25
3 ATLANTIC 12.57
4 EAST_EURO 11.71
5 WEST_MED 11.4
6 EAST_MED 10.92
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.65
8 MIDDLE_EASTERN 3.62
9 ASHKENAZI 2.51
10 WEST_AFRICAN 0.47
11 SIBERIAN 0.35
12 EAST_AFRICAN 0.07

His Ashkenazi is much lower than the Hungarian average which he is the closest to. Serbs too have an average score of 4% so i guess thats not it. Looking at the Middle Eastern score though it shows a score which is double the Serbian average. The weird thing is that he doesnt match any Middle Eastern people at all.

I did some research and Brčko (your dad's half side) was one of few places in Bosnia and Herzegovina where Jews lived before the WW2. For him to be part Sephardic he would have to be something like quarter or somthing which is hardly to be the case going by say K36, less going by 23andme ancestry results. To me it points that your father had some distant proper full Middle Eastern ancestor (hard to say Arab like or North African like depending on calculator) sometimes in the second half of the 1800s. But it is also very much possible that he didn't, he would know or has weirder genetics compared to given references (who all could have weirder compared to each other) - regarding mostly 23andme ancestry results. But then again those African percentages are really persistant on every Gedmatch calculator and then again from my experience tells me they should be even if they are not really real. I don't know. Hard to make out anything. Whatever I try to make out doesn't fit.

Also, it is strange that his 23andme V3 K13 results are that different from K13 of whatever company's raw data came from. Can you post his K15 23andme V3 results? Also, what was previous company he got tested?

I don't know have you ever heard of Dr. McDonald. He analyzes DNA results for free with his own software. You should send him your father's raw data.
https://isogg.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_BGA_project

[PAGANE]

Many Armenians, as well as Georgians, lived in both the Byzantine and Ottoman empires, so it should come as no surprise that you may have some distant great-great-great-grandfather :) of such ancestry. This is more likely than being a Syrian Christian. If your family is Muslim, then the options are more

[Ljubic]

I did some research and Brčko (your dad's half side) was one of few places in Bosnia and Herzegovina where Jews lived before the WW2. For him to be part Sephardic he would have to be something like quarter or somthing which is hardly to be the case going by say K36, less going by 23andme ancestry results. To me it points that your father had some distant proper full Middle Eastern ancestor (hard to say Arab like or North African like depending on calculator) sometimes in the second half of the 1800s. But it is also very much possible that he didn't, he would know or has weirder genetics compared to given references (who all could have weirder compared to each other) - regarding mostly 23andme ancestry results. But then again those African percentages are really persistant on every Gedmatch calculator and then again from my experience tells me they should be even if they are not really real. I don't know. Hard to make out anything. Whatever I try to make out doesn't fit.

Also, it is strange that his 23andme V3 K13 results are that different from K13 of whatever company's raw data came from. Can you post his K15 23andme V3 results? Also, what was previous company he got tested?

I don't know have you ever heard of Dr. McDonald. He analyzes DNA results for free with his own software. You should send him your father's raw data.
https://isogg.org/wiki/McDonald%27s_BGA_project

The previous raw data was 23andMe too, just V5 i converted to V3 because it uses about 100000 SNPs more. He wouldnt know about Middle Eastern ancestry because only his mother knows the father but also not much. He was Catholic and his name was typical Croatian. His surname though is most common in Serbia but also in Croatia.

These are his K15 percentages:
Population
North_Sea 19.94 Pct
Atlantic 10.80 Pct
Baltic 23.97 Pct
Eastern_Euro 9.90 Pct
West_Med 11.91 Pct
West_Asian 8.35 Pct
East_Med 10.93 Pct
Red_Sea 3.04 Pct
South_Asian 0.37 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Siberian 0.08 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian -
Northeast_African -
Sub-Saharan 0.72 Pct

Ill check out the page youve sent me. Thanks.

[chrisbab]

Anyway here is his JTest.

1 SOUTH_BALTIC 23.48
2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 16.25
3 ATLANTIC 12.57
4 EAST_EURO 11.71
5 WEST_MED 11.4
6 EAST_MED 10.92
7 WEST_ASIAN 6.65
8 MIDDLE_EASTERN 3.62
9 ASHKENAZI 2.51
10 WEST_AFRICAN 0.47
11 SIBERIAN 0.35
12 EAST_AFRICAN 0.07

His Ashkenazi is much lower than the Hungarian average which he is the closest to. Serbs too have an average score of 4% so i guess thats not it. Looking at the Middle Eastern score though it shows a score which is double the Serbian average. The weird thing is that he doesnt match any Middle Eastern people at all.

Same with me, i score 5.2% middle east on myheritage and a bit of druze and levant in ftdna and i do not match any actual middle east person.

[Kyp]

For reference my Iranian (Azerbaijani) father:

Eurogenes k13:
Red_Sea 1,72%

Eurogenes k36:
Arabian 1.10 Pct


If I have to guess I'd say he has some Arab/or possible Jewish ancestor. But I don't know how common it is among Balkan results.

[Abriekman]

It would be very helpful too analyze this West Asuan segment separately on Gedmatch. Do you still score it after update?

[canadienne]

Normal for your region. You and your family don't have MENA ancestry.

[Abriekman]

Normal for your region. You and your family don't have MENA ancestry.

It is actually rare for Balkanites to score MENA, some people scored it before update, now people who really do have some of it have it on 23andme, update deleted "noise" who had it

[Roman-Anatolian]

This one is his K13 with 23andMe v3
Population
North_Atlantic 23.37 Pct
Baltic 31.99 Pct
West_Med 15.85 Pct
West_Asian 9.54 Pct
East_Med 13.45 Pct
Red_Sea 3.45 Pct
South_Asian 0.64 Pct
East_Asian -
Siberian 0.75 Pct
Amerindian -
Oceanian 0.06 Pct
Northeast_African 0.06 Pct
Sub-Saharan 0.83 Pct


There is a nice feature on Vahaduo (DISTANCE> MODE -DIFFERENCE (AC - BC) where you can compare two population references and see the differences they might have between them. I don't know how accurate is that sometimes you can see weird differences. But anyways here are his K13 with 23andMe v3 compared to Bosniak average

Distancedifference:(AC-BC) ↑
A:Ljubic's_father
B:Bosniak
C:↴
-1.46792386 Saudi
-1.45820393 Bedouin
-1.41108121 Moroccan
-1.35695604 Mozabite_Berber
-1.28827979 Syrian
-1.28740822 Tunisian
-1.28644640 Egyptian
-1.28344895 Iraqi_Baghdad
-1.21753336 Jordanian
-1.20501637 Georgian_Jewish
-1.19764367 Lor_Iran
-1.18903266 Iran_Bandari
-1.18206295 Iranian
-1.18155125 Algerian
-1.17070883 Ethiopian_Amhara
-1.16923503 Georgian
-1.16748327 Ethiopian_Tigray
-1.16486904 Turk_Meskhetian
-1.16251349 Kabardin
-1.14943125 Turk_South
-1.14608780 Turkmen_Iraq
-1.14499198 Kurd_Sorani
-1.14486743 Assyrian_South
-1.14429231 Palestinian
-1.14403016 Lebanese_Muslim

Distancedifference:(AC-BC) ↓
A:Ljubic's_father
B:Bosniak
C:↴
2.03546728 Croat_South
1.97476795 Croat_West
1.89945417 Croat
1.79040374 Croat_East
1.76644474 Hungarian_Northern
1.69342241 Hungarian_Alföld
1.68203585 Slovenian
1.6632430 4Hungarian
1.64782368 Croat_North
1.57257771 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
1.51201307 Czech 1.47387030 Sorb_Lusatia
1.47176455 Slovak
1.46044051 German_East
1.45595667 Sweden_Svealand_East
1.44935753 Swedish
1.43980773 Sweden_Svealand_West
1.41202318 Sweden_Götaland
1.40988389 Norway_South_Central
1.40858762 Denmark
1.40117345 Norwegian
1.39971460 North-Swedish
1.36624607 Austrian
1.35389352 German
1.35201450 North_German

[Figaro]

Eh, ive seen fully British/Irish people score similar MENA with the new update. Similarly, my father scores 0.6 “Egyptian”.

[Abriekman]

Eh, ive seen fully British/Irish people score similar MENA with the new update. Similarly, my father scores 0.6 “Egyptian”.

In Eastern Europe there are no such cases, I would not pay attention to it unless it stays on 80-90% confidence and does show up on Gedmatch

[Ljubic]

23andMe shows 0,5% Sudanese even on 90% confidence since the update.
Its located on Chromosome 8, where all of the MENA ancestry in the previous update was located as well.

Chromosome 8 on K13:

North Atlantic: 19,3%
Baltic: 32,8%
West Med: 24%
West Asian: 11,6%
East Med: 0%
Red Sea: 0%
South Asian: 5,9%
East Asian: 0%
Siberian: 0%
Amerindian: 0%
Oceanian: 3,9%
Northeast African: 0%
Sub-Saharan: 2,6%

Nothing unusual peaks here other than South Asian i guess so i dont know what to trust.

PS: Happy new Year!

[Figaro]

In Eastern Europe there are no such cases, I would not pay attention to it unless it stays on 80-90% confidence and does show up on Gedmatch

Yeah, I never expected it was real.