Gedmatch calculators on Vahaduo

[Leto]

For Dodecad K12b


French_North,7.75,0.19,1.29,0.60,38.56,37.37,0.36, 0.36,2.56,0.19,10.33,0.42
French_Northeast,7.49,0.34,1.30,0.10,38.30,37.06,0 .11,0.13,3.53,0.20,11.19,0.25
French_Northwest,9.26,0.20,0.43,0,38.92,42.21,0.34 ,0.17,0.86,0.14,7.35,0.08
French_Southwest,5.56,0.16,2.00,0.21,53.12,27.50,0 .69,0.12,2.61,0.43,7.54,0.06


Remove French and French2 and also Mixed_NW_Euro.
Also, correct this (France_Corsica)


French_Corsica,4.81,0,3.00,0,39.95,17.76,0.09,0,8. 31,0.06,25.99,0.02

[Dušan]

It would be great to be added on Vahaduo 4-ancestors oracle (4 x 25%), and even 8-ancestors oracle (8 x 12.5%).

[Leto]

Where is Lukasz? Is he still around?

[Lucas]

Yes, added all. Sorry too much work recently.

[Scandal]

I see k12b has been updated in recent months. Good job.

Gedrosia 2.79 Pct
Siberian 0.59 Pct
Northwest_African 1.99 Pct
Southeast_Asian -
Atlantic_Med 25.09 Pct
North_European 50.44 Pct
South_Asian -
East_African -
Southwest_Asian 3.96 Pct
East_Asian -
Caucasus 15.14 Pct
Sub_Saharan -

Distance to: Universe
3.27972560 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
3.96524905 Hungarians
4.09243204 Slovak
6.06962108 Czech
6.53979357 Slovenian
6.86753959 Ukrainian
6.99993571 Sorb_Lusatia
7.90385349 Polish_mixed
8.59783112 Croat
9.12946877 PL_Mazovia
9.27107329 Russian_Voronezh
9.38784320 Russian_Oryol
9.47413848 Bosnian
9.78689430 Russian_Kursk
9.81277229 Belorussian
9.83407850 MD_North
9.89114250 Russian_Ryazan
10.03617457 PL_Warmia-Masuria
10.32305187 Russian_Smolensk
10.95807921 German
11.35300401 Belarus_Minsk
12.12925802 Mordovian
12.58650071 Russian_Tver
12.80962529 HUN_Szekely
13.52296935 Serb


Target: Universe
Distance: 1.8664% / 1.86640762 | R2P
87.1 Polish_mixed
12.9 Sephardic_Jews


Target: Universe
Distance: 1.0730% / 1.07301511 | R3P
66.3 Lithuanian
17.9 Swiss_Italian
15.8 Sephardic_Jews

[Leto]

I see k12b has been updated in recent months. Good job.

I wish Dunai revised the Hungarian average. Maybe it should be replaced with a better one. He has the data.

[Scandal]

I wish Dunai revised the Hungarian average. Maybe it should be replaced with a better one. He has the data.

Why do you think Hungarian avarage needs tweaking?

[17571imre]

It would be great to be added on Vahaduo 4-ancestors oracle (4 x 25%), and even 8-ancestors oracle (8 x 12.5%).

@Lucas is this possible? Or is there someone else who can make this?

i think many people would like this option

[Leto]

Why do you think Hungarian avarage needs tweaking?
It's a reference from the original spreadsheet which is notoriously shitty. But maybe that one is an exception.

[Lucas]

@Lucas is this possible? Or is there someone else who can make this?

i think many people would like this option

I think it is question or rewriting existing 2-way oracle script. But I guess it would be very slow. Maybe Vbknethio can do.

[vbnetkhio]

I think it is question or rewriting existing 2-way oracle script. But I guess it would be very slow. Maybe Vbknethio can do.

the fastest option I could think of is to have precalculated sheets of all possible 50/50 and 25/25/25/25 combinations for each calculator, and then just run normal distance on that. Everything else would be much slower. 50/50 not so much, but 4-way would take hours.

[J. Ketch]

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13


Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0. 94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82
Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29 ,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14
Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0 .51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30
Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.9 6,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28
Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88, 0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42
Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94, 0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31
Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43 ,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17
Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0 .25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15


Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0 .71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72
Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0 .67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27
Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.8 2,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24
Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12, 0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42
Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20 ,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23
Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0. 96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b


German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0 .22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.

[Dunai]

I wish Dunai revised the Hungarian average. Maybe it should be replaced with a better one. He has the data.

I will revisit K12b, since I see it's the other pretty popular calculator next to K13 for many Europeans, with seemingly constant updates and improvements, so I will reconsider my previous reservations about it. However I can't really give a proper time limit when I might be done.

[Leto]

I will revisit K12b, since I see it's the other pretty popular calculator next to K13 for many Europeans, with seemingly constant updates and improvements, so I will reconsider my previous reservations about it. However I can't really give a proper time limit when I might be done.
Just pick 15-20 decent samples from various parts of Hungary and you'll get a solid average. You don't need 100 samples for that.

[Dunai]

Just pick 15-20 decent samples from various parts of Hungary and you'll get a solid average. You don't need 100 samples for that.

Yes, I will try to select only those individuals for regional Hungarian averages whose average on K13 is the closest to their fellow regional K13 averages, and same I will do for the national Hungarian average, maybe around 30-40 representative samples from the hundreds I have.

[Leto]

Updated Udi average for Dod K12b (more samples)


Udi,21.52,0.77,0.31,0.38,9.36,8.06,1.08,0.26,11.86 ,0.40,45.84,0.16

[Dunai]

I decided to merge the Hungarians from Transylvania and Székely averages on K13, since they are neighbors and were very similar to each other. So replace these:
Hungarian,30.43,32.55,14.23,7.16,10.44,1.29,0.9,0. 54,1.19,0.55,0.36,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania,28.82,28.63,15.09,8.19,12.3 2,1.53,1.2,0.52,2.17,0.73,0.5,0.14,0.11
Székely,28.1,28.52,15.06,8.2,13.03,1.29,0.95,0.88, 2.33,0.74,0.3,0.23,0.14

With these (I also added the Székely samples into the Hungarian average proportionally, thus the new Hungarian national average is based on 418 samples):

Hungarian,30.43,32.58,14.23,7.16,10.42,1.28,0.9,0. 55,1.19,0.55,0.35,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,28.34,28.55,15.07,8 .19,12.8,1.37,1.03,0.76,2.28,0.74,0.37,0.2,0.13

[Jana]

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13


Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0. 94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82
Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29 ,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14
Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0 .51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30
Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.9 6,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28
Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88, 0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42
Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94, 0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31
Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43 ,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17
Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0 .25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15


Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0 .71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72
Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0 .67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27
Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.8 2,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24
Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12, 0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42
Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20 ,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23
Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0. 96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b


German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0 .22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.

Nice job! Any hope to get west German K13 averages anytime soon? I know you were working on them.

[J. Ketch]

Nice job! Any hope to get west German K13 averages anytime soon? I know you were working on them.
I haven't had much luck finding West German kits sadly. I'll get back to looking soon.

[JohnnyP]

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FEcZzuHh_xBlU3sHLUFQIWOGYxI_etd8BgFyNi1MXbw/edit?usp=sharing



Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25 ,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06

[Leto]

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FEcZzuHh_xBlU3sHLUFQIWOGYxI_etd8BgFyNi1MXbw/edit?usp=sharing



Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25 ,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06
Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.

[Jana]

Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.

Ofcourse not, if samples are representative 15 samples will yield very similar result to million samples. I still can't understand why so many people on TA don't understand that.

[Dunai]

Yet the result you've arrived at is nearly identical to the old one (a difference of 0.2-0.3 percent for each component), which goes to show that a large sample size is not always necessary.

The same happened after I added Székely results into the Hungarian national average, in a proportionate way (Székelys constitute around 4% of Hungarians), but it only changed the previous Hungarian average by 0.08%.

[Lucas]

Hello, my new Macedonian K13 Average from 145 gedmatch kits;
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1FEcZzuHh_xBlU3sHLUFQIWOGYxI_etd8BgFyNi1MXbw/edit?usp=sharing



Macedonian,22.14,21.18,20.02,11.03,21.55,2.24,0.25 ,0.34,0.43,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.06

Added

[Leto]

Added
Please update the Udi and also delete that thing in my message.

[Lucas]

Have rectified the problems with the Dutch academic samples by removing 44 with too much African/East Asian/Oceanian/Amerindian. Also some other averages to update

K13


Afrikaner,44.05,22.81,13.97,4.92,6.25,0.88,2.34,0. 94,0.43,0.51,0.54,0.47,1.82
Belgian,45.31,22.61,14.89,5.57,7.74,1.16,0.78,0.29 ,0.13,0.56,0.44,0.30,0.14
Dutch,49.05,25.17,12.16,4.92,3.98,1.17,0.96,0.39,0 .51,0.63,0.42,0.27,0.30
Dutch_Central,49.54,25.41,11.60,4.78,3.73,1.37,0.9 6,0.46,0.44,0.66,0.47,0.24,0.28
Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88, 0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42
Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94, 0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31
Flemish,46.12,23.02,14.39,5.56,7.05,0.88,0.87,0.43 ,0.17,0.57,0.37,0.35,0.17
Irish,52.49,22.93,12.53,6.86,1.44,0.46,1.37,0.18,0 .25,0.82,0.29,0.15,0.14

K15


Afrikaner,31.73,25.27,10.94,8.08,10.14,3.70,3.31,0 .71,2.10,0.74,0.23,0.35,0.39,0.51,1.72
Dutch,37.07,25.93,10.82,9.22,8.48,3.16,1.91,0.83,0 .67,0.26,0.28,0.47,0.31,0.23,0.27
Dutch_Central,37.03,26.55,11.04,9.21,7.75,3.07,1.8 2,0.94,0.67,0.30,0.24,0.50,0.35,0.20,0.24
Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12, 0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42
Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20 ,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23
Irish,36.92,30.40,9.48,8.82,7.71,4.21,0.16,0.27,0. 96,0.09,0.09,0.52,0.15,0.08,0.08

K12b


German_Northwest,8.26,0.21,0.30,0.13,35.34,47.17,0 .22,0.06,0.83,0.02,7.41,0

Thanks.
Added :)

[Lucas]

I decided to merge the Hungarians from Transylvania and Székely averages on K13, since they are neighbors and were very similar to each other. So replace these:
Hungarian,30.43,32.55,14.23,7.16,10.44,1.29,0.9,0. 54,1.19,0.55,0.36,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania,28.82,28.63,15.09,8.19,12.3 2,1.53,1.2,0.52,2.17,0.73,0.5,0.14,0.11
Székely,28.1,28.52,15.06,8.2,13.03,1.29,0.95,0.88, 2.33,0.74,0.3,0.23,0.14

With these (I also added the Székely samples into the Hungarian average proportionally, thus the new Hungarian national average is based on 418 samples):

Hungarian,30.43,32.58,14.23,7.16,10.42,1.28,0.9,0. 55,1.19,0.55,0.35,0.2,0.15
Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,28.34,28.55,15.07,8 .19,12.8,1.37,1.03,0.76,2.28,0.74,0.37,0.2,0.13

And added:)

[Lucas]

Updated Udi average for Dod K12b (more samples)


Udi,21.52,0.77,0.31,0.38,9.36,8.06,1.08,0.26,11.86 ,0.40,45.84,0.16


Added:)

[Leto]

Please update the Udi and also delete that thing in my message.
I mean deleting Pulliyar and renaming MD to Moldovan (it looks better).

[Dunai]

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.0 4,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02
Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0 .66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0
Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.5 5,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0
Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.1 9,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02
Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18 ,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09

[Leto]

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.0 4,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02
Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0 .66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0
Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.5 5,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0
Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.1 9,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02
Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18 ,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09

This is fucking awesome, thank you so much. Before the old ones are deleted, I'm gonna run your brand new pops against them just to see how good the original reference is.

[Dunai]

Interesting that this calculator makes me be more Slavic than any other calculator, but still the only one which captures my Alföld ancestry so closely. I will post my K12b vs K13 results:

K12b
Distance to: Dunai
2.20782699 Hungarian_North
2.64499527 Hungarian_Alföld
2.98667039 Hungarian
3.10958197 Slovenian
3.23913569 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
3.58714371 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.48988864 Croat
5.47313439 Slovak
5.58246361 Bosnian
5.88043366 Moldavian_North
5.97503975 Czech
6.35617023 Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely
9.26466945 Serb
9.58030793 Moldavian_Center
9.78249968 Sorb_Lusatia
10.19071636 German
10.97535876 Ukrainian
11.85410056 Polish_mixed
12.12514330 Bavarian_German
12.32261742 Dutch

Target: Dunai
Distance: 1.0064% / 1.00635418 | ADC: 0.5x RC
60.2 Hungarian_North
19.3 Moldavian_North
17.1 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
3.4 Tatar_Kazan

K13
Distance to: Dunai
4.48241007 Austrian
4.62222890 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.37693221 Hungarian
6.12456529 Slovenian
6.52157190 Hungarian_Alföld
6.84295258 Croat_North
6.92678858 German_East
7.09174168 Hungarian_Northern
7.71532242 Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely
7.73996770 Csángó-Ceangău
7.93761929 Czech
8.01355102 Székely
8.20033536 Croat_West
8.30510084 Croat
8.42333070 Slovak
9.43855921 German
9.79133290 Croat_East
10.25001463 Croat_South
10.78504057 France_Alsace
11.28222939 Swiss_German

Target: Dunai
Distance: 1.4883% / 1.48833351 | ADC: 0.5x RC
67.3 Austrian
27.5 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
4.0 Shors
1.2 Kazakh

[Dunai]

Interesting results and distances for Hungarian national average according to K12b, Asiatic element is quite high:

Distance to: Hungarian
2.20977374 Slovenian
4.50063329 Croat
5.58943647 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
5.71425411 Czech
5.83219513 Bosnian
6.28487072 Slovak
6.53079628 Moldavian_North
8.70864513 German
8.78604006 Serb
9.58056888 Moldavian_Center
9.63002077 Bavarian_German
10.15270900 Dutch
10.46689543 Sorb_Lusatia
11.53324326 German_Northwest
12.47044907 Montenegrin
12.77285794 Ukrainian
13.10724609 Polish_mixed
13.50904882 French_Northeast
13.57984536 English_South
13.82315449 Swedish
13.88327771 French_North
13.98614314 English_mixed
14.03847926 Danish
14.13306053 PL_Warmia-Masuria
14.19300180 English_North
14.28854086 French_Northwest
14.40492277 Icelandic
14.46091283 Romanian
14.73363838 Macedonian

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 1.0110% / 1.01096769 | ADC: 0.5x RC
83.9 Slovenian
7.8 French_Northeast
7.1 Tatar_Kazan
1.2 Lipka_Tatar

[Lucas]

I finally managed to create brand new Hungarian averages for K12b. Each regional average is based on 10 samples, specifically selected those which were the closest to their respective regional K13 averages, while the national average is based on 40 samples, and is a weighed aggregate of the 4 regional ones. Therefore please delete these:
HUN_Szekely,5.69,2.23,0.86,0.54,27.11,38.92,0.47,0 .07,3.83,1.74,18.51,0.02
Hungarians,4.10,0.70,0.00,0.00,27.00,48.40,0.30,0. 00,3.00,0.30,16.20,0.00

And add these:

Hungarian,5.69,1.19,0.59,0.21,28.09,44.65,0.65,0.0 4,3.31,0.24,15.16,0.02
Hungarian_Alföld,5.24,1.39,0.63,0.22,28.05,45.73,0 .66,0.04,3.19,0.17,14.68,0
Hungarian_North,5.16,1.31,0.6,0.26,27.34,46.81,0.5 5,0.01,2.91,0.13,14.93,0
Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest,6.02,0.85,0.55,0.1 9,28.36,44.2,0.67,0.06,3.37,0.23,15.2,0.02
Hungarian_Transylvania+Székely,6.06,2.42,0.62,0.18 ,27.89,40.32,0.6,0,4.06,0.73,16.94,0.09


:thumb001:

[Leto]

Interesting results and distances for Hungarian national average according to K12b, Asiatic element is quite high:

Distance to: Hungarian
2.20977374 Slovenian
4.50063329 Croat
5.58943647 Ukrainian_Ivano-Frankivsk
5.71425411 Czech
5.83219513 Bosnian
6.28487072 Slovak
6.53079628 Moldavian_North
8.70864513 German
8.78604006 Serb
9.58056888 Moldavian_Center
9.63002077 Bavarian_German
10.15270900 Dutch
10.46689543 Sorb_Lusatia
11.53324326 German_Northwest
12.47044907 Montenegrin
12.77285794 Ukrainian
13.10724609 Polish_mixed
13.50904882 French_Northeast
13.57984536 English_South
13.82315449 Swedish
13.88327771 French_North
13.98614314 English_mixed
14.03847926 Danish
14.13306053 PL_Warmia-Masuria
14.19300180 English_North
14.28854086 French_Northwest
14.40492277 Icelandic
14.46091283 Romanian
14.73363838 Macedonian

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 1.0110% / 1.01096769 | ADC: 0.5x RC
83.9 Slovenian
7.8 French_Northeast
7.1 Tatar_Kazan
1.2 Lipka_Tatar
Bloggen and Turul Karom style Türkic nation :D

[Dunai]

Bloggen and Turul Karom style Türkic nation :D

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West

[Leto]

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West
Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.

[Jana]

This calculator definitely does capture a strong Turkic substratum in Modern Hungarians, unlike K13, in this case I do wonder which is more reliable.

K13
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.7080% / 0.70799160 | ADC: 0.5x RC
35.4 Croat_North
25.7 Slovenian
23.7 Csángó-Ceangău
8.8 Austrian
6.4 Croat_West

Well Csango have lot of mongoloid compared to rest of people in wider region.

[Dunai]

Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.

Could be true, if I take out Hungarians from Transylvania, who are the closest to Csángós, this is what they get on K13:
Target: Csángó-Ceangău
Distance: 0.9087% / 0.90874540 | ADC: 0.5x RC
52.1 Hungarian_Alföld
26.0 Romania_Moldavia_North
13.0 Swiss_French
8.9 Crimean_Tatar

[Peterski]

Well, 8% Tatar is probably equivalent to 24% Csango.

Remove Csango from the reference populations, run again, and see what replaces them.

[Dunai]

Remove Csango from the reference populations, run again, and see what replaces them.

Okay, so it seems Csángó reference doesn't replace Tatars, because this is how Hungarian average looks like on K13 if all Hungarian-like references are removed:

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.2402% / 0.24020629 | ADC: 0.25x RC
64.4 Croat_North
23.2 Croat_West
5.3 Afrikaner
5.3 Austrian
1.7 Shors
0.1 Karakalpak

Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.9592% / 0.95924017 | ADC: 0.5x RC
67.2 Croat_North
25.5 Croat_West
7.3 Afrikaner

[Peterski]

But now try after removing just Csango, not all Hungarian-like references.

Also I would recommend No Dist Col if you are checking Hungarian origins.

Using ADC 0.25x is not good for checking deeper ancestry, only for recent.

=====

Try again also with all Hungarian-like references removed, but No Dist Col.

[Peterski]

(...)
1.7 Shors
0.1 Karakalpak

TURAN STRONK

BTW, Northern Croats probably also have some Turan, so this 64.4% Croat_North is hiding additional Turan within it, because you used ADC.

[Dunai]

But now try after removing just Csango, not all Hungarian-like references.

Also I would recommend No Dist Col if you are checking Hungarian origins.

Using ADC 0.25x is not good for checking deeper ancestry, only for recent.

=====

Try again also with all Hungarian-like references removed, but No Dist Col.

Well, here you go, but I don't see how this helps, usually these calculators work best when there is a 1 distance at least:
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.0021% / 0.00213828
3.4 Belarusian_Minsk
2.7 Romania_Crisana
2.6 Russian_Southwest
2.5 Latvian
2.5 Slovenian
2.3 Belorussian
2.3 South_Polish
2.2 Sorb_Lusatia
2.1 Moldova_Ukrainian
1.9 Czech
1.9 Lithuanian
1.8 Croat_West
1.7 Romania_Oltenia
1.7 Ukrainian
1.7 Ukrainian_Belgorod
1.6 Estonian
1.5 Serb_central
1.4 Bulgaria_Southcentral
1.4 Moldova_Centre
1.4 Polish_Masuria
1.3 Italian_Trentino
1.3 Russian_Kargopol
1.2 Albanian
1.2 Croat_South
1.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
1.2 Pomak_Bulgaria
1.1 Serb_north
1.1 Swedish
1.1 Ukrainian_Galicia
1.0 Albanian_Tosk
1.0 Bosniak
1.0 English_Midlands
1.0 Macedonian_North
1.0 North_German
1.0 Southwest_Finnish
0.9 Croat_North
0.9 Denmark
0.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.9 Romania_Banat
0.9 Romania_Wallachia
0.9 Serb
0.9 Swiss_German2
0.9 Welsh
0.8 Croat
0.8 Croat_East
0.8 Finnish
0.8 Irish_Connacht
0.8 Polish
0.8 Scottish
0.8 Ukrainian_Carpathian
0.7 Erzya_Mordovian
0.7 Flemish
0.7 German_East
0.7 Greek_West
0.7 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.7 Italian_Liguria
0.7 Serb_south
0.7 Slovak
0.7 Sweden_Götaland
0.7 Sweden_Svealand_East
0.6 Austrian
0.6 Macedonian
0.6 Macedonian_South
0.6 Moldova_North
0.6 Romania_Moldavia_North
0.6 Sweden_Svealand_West
0.6 Swiss_German
0.5 German_West
0.5 Icelandic
0.5 Italian_Lombardy
0.5 Romania_Maramures
0.5 Romania_Muntenia
0.5 Russian_average
0.5 Russian_Pinega
0.5 Russian_Smolensk
0.5 Spanish_Andalucia
0.5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.4 Bosniak_Sandzak
0.4 East_Finnish
0.4 France_south
0.4 German
0.4 Italian_Sardinia
0.4 Moldova_average
0.4 Romania_Dobruja
0.4 Romania_Transylvania
0.4 Swiss_French
0.4 Swiss-Italian2
0.3 Dutch_North
0.3 English_Southeast
0.3 France_Provence
0.3 French
0.3 French_Basque
0.3 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.3 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
0.3 Greek_Istanbul
0.3 Italian_Veneto
0.3 Orcadian
0.3 Russian_Kostroma
0.3 Southwest_French
0.3 Torbesh_average
0.2 Albanian_Gheg
0.2 Balkan_Gypsy
0.2 Belgian
0.2 Bulgaria_Southwestern
0.2 Dutch
0.2 France_north-west
0.2 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
0.2 Irish
0.2 Norway_South_Central
0.2 Spanish_Cantabria
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.2 Spanish_Valencia
0.2 Swiss_Italian
0.2 Turk_Deliorman
0.2 Turk_Makedonya
0.1 Afrikaner
0.1 Chuvash
0.1 Dai
0.1 France_Central
0.1 France_Corsica
0.1 France_south-west
0.1 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
0.1 Greek_North_Aegean
0.1 Greek_Thessaly
0.1 Irish_Munster
0.1 Italian_Calabria
0.1 Italian_Emilia
0.1 Italian_Friuli_VG
0.1 Italian_Jewish
0.1 Lahu
0.1 Moldova_Jewish
0.1 Moldova_South
0.1 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
0.1 North-Swedish
0.1 Norwegian
0.1 Pennsylvania_Dutch
0.1 Pomak_Greece
0.1 Romania_average
0.1 Romania_Moldavia_South
0.1 Turk_Trakya
0.1 Turkmen
0.1 Uygur
0.1 Yagnobi

[Peterski]

Well, here you go, but I don't see how this helps, usually these calculators work best when there is a 1 distance at least:
Target: Hungarian
Distance: 0.0021% / 0.00213828
3.4 Belarusian_Minsk
2.7 Romania_Crisana
2.6 Russian_Southwest
2.5 Latvian
2.5 Slovenian
2.3 Belorussian
2.3 South_Polish
2.2 Sorb_Lusatia
2.1 Moldova_Ukrainian
1.9 Czech
1.9 Lithuanian
1.8 Croat_West
1.7 Romania_Oltenia
1.7 Ukrainian
1.7 Ukrainian_Belgorod
1.6 Estonian
1.5 Serb_central
1.4 Bulgaria_Southcentral
1.4 Moldova_Centre
1.4 Polish_Masuria
1.3 Italian_Trentino
1.3 Russian_Kargopol
1.2 Albanian
1.2 Croat_South
1.2 Greek_Northern-Thrace
1.2 Pomak_Bulgaria
1.1 Serb_north
1.1 Swedish
1.1 Ukrainian_Galicia
1.0 Albanian_Tosk
1.0 Bosniak
1.0 English_Midlands
1.0 Macedonian_North
1.0 North_German
1.0 Southwest_Finnish
0.9 Croat_North
0.9 Denmark
0.9 Greek_Western-Thrace
0.9 Romania_Banat
0.9 Romania_Wallachia
0.9 Serb
0.9 Swiss_German2
0.9 Welsh
0.8 Croat
0.8 Croat_East
0.8 Finnish
0.8 Irish_Connacht
0.8 Polish
0.8 Scottish
0.8 Ukrainian_Carpathian
0.7 Erzya_Mordovian
0.7 Flemish
0.7 German_East
0.7 Greek_West
0.7 Italian_Aosta_Valley
0.7 Italian_Liguria
0.7 Serb_south
0.7 Slovak
0.7 Sweden_Götaland
0.7 Sweden_Svealand_East
0.6 Austrian
0.6 Macedonian
0.6 Macedonian_South
0.6 Moldova_North
0.6 Romania_Moldavia_North
0.6 Sweden_Svealand_West
0.6 Swiss_German
0.5 German_West
0.5 Icelandic
0.5 Italian_Lombardy
0.5 Romania_Maramures
0.5 Romania_Muntenia
0.5 Russian_average
0.5 Russian_Pinega
0.5 Russian_Smolensk
0.5 Spanish_Andalucia
0.5 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha
0.4 Bosniak_Sandzak
0.4 East_Finnish
0.4 France_south
0.4 German
0.4 Italian_Sardinia
0.4 Moldova_average
0.4 Romania_Dobruja
0.4 Romania_Transylvania
0.4 Swiss_French
0.4 Swiss-Italian2
0.3 Dutch_North
0.3 English_Southeast
0.3 France_Provence
0.3 French
0.3 French_Basque
0.3 Greek_Central_Macedonia
0.3 Greek_Eastern-Thrace
0.3 Greek_Istanbul
0.3 Italian_Veneto
0.3 Orcadian
0.3 Russian_Kostroma
0.3 Southwest_French
0.3 Torbesh_average
0.2 Albanian_Gheg
0.2 Balkan_Gypsy
0.2 Belgian
0.2 Bulgaria_Southwestern
0.2 Dutch
0.2 France_north-west
0.2 Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
0.2 Irish
0.2 Norway_South_Central
0.2 Spanish_Cantabria
0.2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
0.2 Spanish_Valencia
0.2 Swiss_Italian
0.2 Turk_Deliorman
0.2 Turk_Makedonya
0.1 Afrikaner
0.1 Chuvash
0.1 Dai
0.1 France_Central
0.1 France_Corsica
0.1 France_south-west
0.1 Greek_Macedonia_Thrace
0.1 Greek_North_Aegean
0.1 Greek_Thessaly
0.1 Irish_Munster
0.1 Italian_Calabria
0.1 Italian_Emilia
0.1 Italian_Friuli_VG
0.1 Italian_Jewish
0.1 Lahu
0.1 Moldova_Jewish
0.1 Moldova_South
0.1 Moldova_South_Gagauzia
0.1 North-Swedish
0.1 Norwegian
0.1 Pennsylvania_Dutch
0.1 Pomak_Greece
0.1 Romania_average
0.1 Romania_Moldavia_South
0.1 Turk_Trakya
0.1 Turkmen
0.1 Uygur
0.1 Yagnobi

But why the fuck is this such a loooooong result ???

It seems nMonte doesn't work well with low-K calcs.

[Leto]

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

[Peterski]

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

Maybe he is just a hung Aryan.

[Lucas]

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

Do you remember other Hungarian with such Serbian-like results? And if Chris is from southern Hungary bordering Serbia?

[Dunai]

But why the fuck is this such a loooooong result ???

It seems nMonte doesn't work well with low-K calcs.

It seems to be the case with nations who are very heterogenous, like Hungarians are, since I tried it at 0 value with several more homogenous nations, including Polish, and surprisingly they get rather few population references.

[Scandal]

Do you remember other Hungarian with such Serbian-like results? And if Chris is from southern Hungary bordering Serbia?
He is 1/2 Hungarian from Southeast Hungary and 1/2 Székely-Hungarian from Romania. I also remember 23andme showed he's 5% Ashkenazi or so.

[Lucas]

He is 1/2 Hungarian from Southeast Hungary and 1/2 Székely-Hungarian from Romania. I also remember 23andme showed he's 5% Ashkenazi or so.

Thanks.
Many Serbs could be "hungarized" in the last few centuries in the SE Hungary? I guess it is the case for him.

[Leto]

Is vbnetkhio still around? I asked him for something (related to Gedmatch) a few days ago and now I see he hasn't logged in since then.

[Peterski]

Thanks.
Many Serbs could be "hungarized" in the last few centuries in the SE Hungary? I guess it is the case for him.

By the way, after I added those Lemkos, my cousin is now scoring a high % of Podkarpackie Lemkos.

Not sure if this is relevant but when she was in Zakopane, Gorals told her she looks like one of them.

[Jana]

And Chris is still Hungarian in name only!.. xD

Distance to: Chris(Hungarian)
3.53788072 Serb
3.89263407 Moldavian_Center
4.40663137 Montenegrin
5.62415327 Romanian
5.90758834 Macedonian
5.98466373 Moldavian_North
6.30179340 Bosnian
6.90741630 Bulgarian_West
6.98818288 Moldavian_South
7.12516666 Croat

Target: Chris(Hungarian)
Distance: 2.4851% / 2.48510023 | ADC: 0.25x RC
67.0 Serb
26.6 Croat
4.8 Georgian_Mingrelian
1.6 Japanese

And check out two closest populations for Stears on K13 :o

Distance to: Stears

4.13745091 Csángó-Ceangău
4.91866852 Hungarian_Alföld
5.02263875 Croat
5.04164656 Hungarian
5.11376574 Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely
5.23906480 Székely
5.38356759 Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest
5.41378795 Croat_West
5.43240278 Croat_East
5.76661079 Croat_South
5.98474728 Croat_North
6.18610540 Bosniak
6.29182009 Romania_Moldavia_North
6.34904717 Moldova_North
6.65686112 Moldova_Centre
6.83100285 Hungarian_Northern
6.93621655 Serb_north
7.03108100 Slovenian
7.08213245 Moldova_average
7.96936635 Serb
8.10604096 Serb_central
8.23001215 Ukrainian_Carpathian
8.44873363 Romania_Maramures
8.62079463 Slovak
9.54300791 Romania_Crisana

[Jana]

Stears is closer to Bosniaks, Modovans and Serbs than plus to some Romanian groups to Czechs or Austrians....proof that phenotype =/= genotype.

[JohnnyP]

Target: Johnnyp
Distance: 1.7336% / 1.73356834 | ADC: 0.25x RC
58.9 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
21.9 Slovak
11.9 Swiss_Italian
7.3 Moroccan


Distance to: Johnnyp
4.39039862 Macedonian_North
4.98397432 Macedonian
4.98668226 Macedonian_South
6.30527557 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
7.65411001 Albanian_Gheg

[Scandal]

Thanks.
Many Serbs could be "hungarized" in the last few centuries in the SE Hungary? I guess it is the case for him.
I have yet to see another hungarian result as Serb/southern as him. His result is unusual. SE Hungary where he is from never had much Serbs to my knowledge except some towns on the border but he wasn't from such town. Stearsolina recently posted a hungarian result from region of Chris and he was very avarage Hungarian or more NW shifted than avarage hungarian even. Ethnic Hungarians who live in Vojvodina next to Serbs are quite similar to avarage Hungarian results and are not much close to Serbs from what I've seen.

Then again on MyHeritage he had many ethnic Serb matches. On 23andme he got a lot of regions in Romania, including regions that don't have any ethnic Hungarians. So his Székely side may be mixed with Romanians. He also said he may have some Armenian ancestry on his Székely line, but 23andme didn't show any Armenian for him (but it showed 3.8% Askhenazi)

[Scandal]

Stears is closer to Bosniaks, Modovans and Serbs than plus to some Romanian groups to Czechs or Austrians....proof that phenotype =/= genotype.
I think he got his northern look from his mother because from what I remember his Székely father didn't look northern at all. However I see what you mean, my father looks very different than her sister (different as in looking ethnically different) but since they're siblings they should score very similar.

[Jana]

I have yet to see another hungarian result as Serb/southern as him. His result is unusual. SE Hungary where he is from never had much Serbs to my knowledge except some towns on the border but he wasn't from such town. Stearsolina recently posted a hungarian result from region of Chris and he was very avarage Hungarian or more NW shifted than avarage hungarian even. Ethnic Hungarians who live in Vojvodina next to Serbs are quite similar to avarage Hungarian results and are not much close to Serbs from what I've seen.

Then again on MyHeritage he had many ethnic Serb matches. On 23andme he got a lot of regions in Romania, including regions that don't have any ethnic Hungarians. So his Székely side may be mixed with Romanians. He also said he may have some Armenian ancestry on his Székely line, but 23andme didn't show any Armenian for him (but it showed 3.8% Askhenazi)

I agree. His result is atypical for Alfold, but he's only half Alfoldi and half Hungarian from Romania with some Jewish so his result makes sense.

[Jana]

I think he got his northern look from his mother because from what I remember his Székely father didn't look northern at all. However I see what you mean, my father looks very different than her sister (different as in looking ethnically different) but since they're siblings they should score very similar.

Yes. Stears mother looks Slavic/Neo-Danubian. His father looked woggy.

[Scandal]

I agree. His result is typical for Alfold, but he's only half Alfoldi and half Hungarian from Romania with some Jewish so his result makes sense.
YOu mean atypical?

[Jana]

YOu mean atypical?

Yeah, ofc :) It's too southern. Alfold isn't Balkan like genetically but close to average for Hungary.

[Scandal]

Target: Johnnyp
Distance: 1.7336% / 1.73356834 | ADC: 0.25x RC
58.9 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
21.9 Slovak
11.9 Swiss_Italian
7.3 Moroccan


Distance to: Johnnyp
4.39039862 Macedonian_North
4.98397432 Macedonian
4.98668226 Macedonian_South
6.30527557 Vlach(Aromanian)_average
7.65411001 Albanian_Gheg

Why do you get Swiss-Italian? I also score it. Is it something related to paleo-balkan?

[Leto]

@Lucas
Can you also rename the Polish references? "Polish" instead of "PL" and simply "Polish" instead of "Polish_mixed"


Polish_Mazovia,3.7,0.81,0.06,0.04,22.69,58,0.8,0,1 .08,0.29,12.53,0
Polish_Warmia-Masuria,5.29,0.89,0.04,0.18,26.06,56.85,0.28,0.03, 1.64,0.16,8.58,0
Polish,3.72,0.69,0.16,0.18,25.28,56.52,0.44,0.10,1 .67,0.06,11.17,0

Looks better.

[JohnnyP]

Why do you get Swiss-Italian? I also score it. Is it something related to paleo-balkan?

I think yeah paleo-balkanic :D I don't have Italian relatives as i know :D

[Kaazi]

@Lucas,

Please replace the meaningless harappaworld average (average of 3 different types of kits)


Brahmin_Uttaranchal,36.19,32.10,7.03,9.59,1.44,1.9 7,7.97,0.65,0.65,1.25,1.15,0.03,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.0 0

by


Garhwali_Brahmin,37.96,32.72,8.36,8.68,0.53,1.86,6 .62,0.46,1.05,0.54,1.25,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00

Please add new harappaworld average (n=2)

Himachal_Pradesh_Rajput,39.73,33.58,9.99,3.61,1.59 ,1.41,6.37,0.70,2.80,0.48,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00,0.00 ,0.00


@Lucas this plz.

[Lucas]

@Lucas this plz.

I believed it was added, ok I added now.

[JohnnyP]

Macedonian average Central & South from 55 samples,


Macedonian_Central&South,22.62,19.59,20.57,10.96,22.05,2.43,0.24,0.33 ,0.34,0.48,0.38,0.05,0.03

Macedonian average East from 25 samples,


Macedonian_East,23.05,20.90,22.22,10.85,19.19,1.96 ,0.29,0.36,0.55,0.30,0.32,0.05,0.07


Macedonian average West from 25 samples,


Macedonian_West,22.88,21.87,20.69,9.06,21.29,2.32, 0.24,0.46,0.44,0.27,0.32,0.03,0.12


Macedonian average North from 25 Samples,


Macedonian_North,21.63,22.44,18.77,11.00,22.13,2.2 6,0.23,0.27,0.42,0.41,0.33,0.02,0.04


Macedonian average was with many more kits, here not because many kits are without region info.
But this is final update from me, if you want add them if it is not too much :)

[Leto]

North Macedonia is too small a country to have so many averages. Come on, there are 1.2 million ethnic Macedonians out there.

[JohnnyP]

North Macedonia is too small a country to have so many averages. Come on, there are 1.2 million ethnic Macedonians out there.

In Macedonia there are least people right now, many emigrated ,around the world there are from 2.5 - 3 milion Macedonians, these results are from Macedonians also from all countries around the world, not only from Macedonia and I'm posting these results because some regions are different, ex. East part Macedonians score more North Atlantic and West Med from Baltic and East Med,
Macedonians from North part score more East Med from West Med and more Baltic from North Atlantic, Macedonians from Central and South part score almost equally West Med and East Med with high North Atlantic I can say same for West part, maybe because I'm into this some time, these little difference for you are big for me :)

And I said if it is not too much add them, otherwise don't.

[Lucas]

Macedonian average Central & South from 55 samples,


Macedonian_Central&South,22.62,19.59,20.57,10.96,22.05,2.43,0.24,0.33 ,0.34,0.48,0.38,0.05,0.03

Macedonian average East from 25 samples,


Macedonian_East,23.05,20.90,22.22,10.85,19.19,1.96 ,0.29,0.36,0.55,0.30,0.32,0.05,0.07


Macedonian average West from 25 samples,


Macedonian_West,22.88,21.87,20.69,9.06,21.29,2.32, 0.24,0.46,0.44,0.27,0.32,0.03,0.12


Macedonian average North from 25 Samples,


Macedonian_North,21.63,22.44,18.77,11.00,22.13,2.2 6,0.23,0.27,0.42,0.41,0.33,0.02,0.04


Macedonian average was with many more kits, here not because many kits are without region info.
But this is final update from me, if you want add them if it is not too much :)

Nice, I will add and ask you by PM of some new samples:)

Here is their older avereages PCA position in K36. As we see there is quite big difference between south and the rest. Using one average would be not good.

https://i.imgur.com/Nr8uuOs.png

[JohnnyP]

Nice, I will add and ask you by PM of some new samples:)

Here is their older avereages PCA position in K36. As we see there is quite big difference between south and the rest. Using one average would be not good.

https://i.imgur.com/Nr8uuOs.png

Yeah , That's from South also from Central, it seems that Central Macedonians are even more southern than South Macedonians from many kits :D

[Leto]

Russian average for D K12b based on the exact same samples I used for Eu K13


Russian,4.18,4.88,0.14,0.28,20.22,57.75,0.91,0.03, 0.96,0.79,9.83,0.04

Distance to: Russian
2.84608503 Russian_Ryazan
2.91106510 Russian_Tver
2.95382802 Russian_Kostroma
3.37807638 Mordovian
4.06107129 Russian_Oryol
4.24417248 Russian_Kursk
4.46570263 Russian_Smolensk
4.65254769 Belarus_Minsk
4.86305460 Russian_Voronezh
4.89894887 North_Russian
4.94236785 Belorussian
5.53097641 Polish_Mazovia
5.85894188 Ukrainian
6.20722966 Russian_Ural
6.92492599 Polish
7.41000000 Polish_Warmia-Masuria
7.82536261 Estonian
8.38371040 Russian_Arkhangelsk
9.05434702 Sorb_Lusatia
9.20510185 Karelian

Distance to: Russian
0.48771658 55.80% Belorussian + 44.20% Russian_Ural
0.63059507 58.20% Russian_Smolensk + 41.80% Russian_Ural
0.83093906 57.40% Belarus_Minsk + 42.60% Russian_Ural
0.94382139 41.00% Russian_Arkhangelsk + 59.00% Ukrainian
1.01657948 53.00% Polish_Mazovia + 47.00% Russian_Ural
1.04770253 58.60% Russian_Kostroma + 41.40% Russian_Oryol
1.08457895 45.00% North_Russian + 55.00% Russian_Oryol
1.20947373 60.20% Russian_Kostroma + 39.80% Russian_Kursk
1.25408709 61.60% Russian_Kostroma + 38.40% Russian_Smolensk
1.25642770 48.80% Russian_Kostroma + 51.20% Russian_Ryazan
1.26909003 46.20% North_Russian + 53.80% Russian_Kursk
1.31264749 41.00% Belarus_Minsk + 59.00% Mordovian
1.41167577 45.40% Mordovian + 54.60% Russian_Tver
1.41376192 54.80% North_Russian + 45.20% Ukrainian
1.45178494 60.80% Polish_Mazovia + 39.20% Russian_Arkhangelsk
1.51635204 55.00% Polish + 45.00% Russian_Arkhangelsk
1.63743806 47.00% Polish + 53.00% Russian_Ural
1.63908127 49.80% North_Russian + 50.20% Russian_Voronezh
1.69067134 58.60% Mordovian + 41.40% Russian_Smolensk
1.72112336 38.60% Belorussian + 61.40% Mordovian


I'm planning to replace Mordovian for K13 but I currently don't have the data on my PC and the person who gave it to me has deleted it, so it'll take some time (not that it's important at all ;))

[J. Ketch]

New German K13 averages that I posted on the German thread. You can replace the current German and North German averages with these if you like (they're pretty similar), the German_West average should stay though.


German,43.00,27.31,13.88,5.81,6.40,0.94,0.94,0.15, 0.34,0.46,0.36,0.15,0.13
German_Northwest,48.15,27.06,11.62,5.35,3.94,0.84, 1.28,0.13,0.43,0.44,0.40,0.15,0.14
German_South,41.78,22.89,16.36,6.24,9.41,1.09,0.52 ,0.25,0.31,0.42,0.38,0.18,0.11

[J. Ketch]

Added :)
I think you've deleted Dutch South from K13 Lucas, and have a duplicate one in K15.

Here they are again

K13


Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94, 0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31

K15 (right one)


Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20 ,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23

[J. Ketch]

Also a Belgian K15 average based on 14 kits, that gets closer distances to surrounding areas than the current Belgium average


Belgian,32.55,26.03,10.30,8.21,11.03,4.08,5.01,1.0 4,0.62,0.06,0.04,0.36,0.20,0.30,0.09


Distance to: Belgian
2.07424685 Dutch_South
3.32234857 Afrikaner
3.61005540 French_North-East
4.23823076 French_Brittany
4.72935514 West_German
4.87699703 Pennsylvania_Dutch
5.00996008 German_Bavarian
5.14192571 English_Southeast
5.67682129 Swiss_German
5.70651382 English_Midlands

Distance to: Belgium
3.45405559 Dutch_South
4.06038176 French_North-East
4.10321825 French_Brittany
4.35014942 Afrikaner
5.06957592 English_Southeast
5.34652223 German_Bavarian
5.70751259 English_Midlands
5.82640541 English
5.95696231 West_German
5.98311792 English_Southwest

[Lucas]

I think you've deleted Dutch South from K13 Lucas, and have a duplicate one in K15.

Here they are again

K13


Dutch_South,45.96,23.36,15.21,5.01,5.67,1.35,0.94, 0.38,0.56,0.54,0.29,0.35,0.31

K15 (right one)


Dutch_South,33.18,25.80,10.33,8.52,11.45,3.77,3.20 ,1.23,0.69,0.26,0.36,0.42,0.18,0.29,0.23

Also a Belgian K15 average based on 14 kits, that gets closer distances to surrounding areas than the current Belgium average
Fixed

[Leto]

Lucas, I requested some renaming, please do it. I want some consistency in the names of the references :)

[vbnetkhio]

Fixed

I think your inbox is full, so I'll ask you here, do you know about these samples?

http://gigadb.org/dataset/view/id/100310/Sample_sort/taxonomic_id/File_sort/type_id/File_page/1

it's more than 100 Polish Iron age samples. (without the ones with "77 genomes" in the name, those are microbe samples)
the download links don't work for me.

[Lucas]

I think your inbox is full, so I'll ask you here, do you know about these samples?

http://gigadb.org/dataset/view/id/100310/Sample_sort/taxonomic_id/File_sort/type_id/File_page/1

it's more than 100 Polish Iron age samples. (without the ones with "77 genomes" in the name, those are microbe samples)
the download links don't work for me.

There are Wielbark genomes here among others, but I didn't know this location. Before it was on ENA only.

[Lucas]

I think your inbox is full, so I'll ask you here, do you know about these samples?

http://gigadb.org/dataset/view/id/100310/Sample_sort/taxonomic_id/File_sort/type_id/File_page/1

it's more than 100 Polish Iron age samples. (without the ones with "77 genomes" in the name, those are microbe samples)
the download links don't work for me.

I can download. But not very fast even on optical fiber connection.

[vbnetkhio]

There are Wielbark genomes here among others, but I didn't know this location. Before it was on ENA only.

also, here are the Hungarian conqueror studies, but downloads are currently disabled because of maintenance, right?
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB31764
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJNA490697

[Lucas]

also, here are the Hungarian conqueror studies, but downloads ENA are currently disabled because of maintenance, right?
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB31764
https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJNA490697

I downloaded it already. Only few were ok. Wait I will upload to GoogleDrive.

[vbnetkhio]

I downloaded it already. Only few were ok. Wait I will upload to GoogleDrive.

is that second study just Y-dna data, without autosomal?

[Lucas]

is that second study just Y-dna data, without autosomal?

Those where were Uyelgi samples, which I gave Davidski to G25.

Very poor samples in general, but you can play (here only Hungarian).
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1_k9A1YrbZmdpFeAyhHprMljccTAFgPuX/view?usp=sharing

[vbnetkhio]

I can download. But not very fast even on optical fiber connection.

maybe the website is currently lagging and it's usually faster? it takes long even for the page to load for me.

the 200–400 AD samples from Masłomęcz would be especially interesting, possible proto-Slavs.

[Lucas]

maybe the website is currently lagging and it's usually faster? it takes long even for the page to load for me.

the 200–400 AD samples from Masłomęcz would be especially interesting, possible proto-Slavs.

No one from GIGADB , even this labeled Deep gives any result after conversion (no snps :). Still better samples from Wielbark are on ENA.

[vbnetkhio]

No one from GIGADB , even this labeled Deep gives any result after conversion (no snps :). Still better samples from Wielbark are on ENA.

how is that possible?

are these the old files?
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AB9sVPAGzZvekAU&id=9FE9F083531F3F5D%21538&cid=9FE9F083531F3F5D
kow24 has only 6 MB here, and 152 MB on GIGADB. the gigadb version should have at least all of the snps which the old version has.

did you check if they are in a different build (hg17, hg18)?

[Lucas]

how is that possible?

are these the old files?
https://onedrive.live.com/?authkey=%21AB9sVPAGzZvekAU&id=9FE9F083531F3F5D%21538&cid=9FE9F083531F3F5D
kow24 has only 6 MB here, and 152 MB on GIGADB. the gigadb version should have at least all of the snps which the old version has.

did you check if they are in a different build (hg17, hg18)?

What was under my link was from Verenich convertion.


I tried all four options fro GigaDB files (normally for bam files I didn't get such info so they are somewhat fucked up) :)

https://i.imgur.com/X8T0BmY.jpg
Also old BAK was defeated.

Maybe you will have more luck using something different.

[vbnetkhio]

I tried all four options (normally for bam files I didn't get such info so they are somewhat fucked up) :)

https://i.imgur.com/X8T0BmY.jpg
Also old BAK was defeated.

Maybe you will have more luck using something different.
then it's probably hg18, which isn't offered here..

[Lucas]

then it's probably hg18, which isn't offered here..

Maybe, but even one snp wasn't converted?

[vbnetkhio]

Maybe, but even one snp wasn't converted?

maybe that's how it is with bams.

can you check this?
http://genometoolbox.blogspot.com/2013/06/does-bam-file-use-hg18-or-hg19.html

edit:
or this, if there's no header:

samtools view filename.bam | head -n 5

[Lucas]

maybe that's how it is with bams.

can you check this?
http://genometoolbox.blogspot.com/2013/06/does-bam-file-use-hg18-or-hg19.html

edit:
or this, if there's no header:

samtools view filename.bam | head -n 5

samtools view -H filename.bam
This command should show only header, but it shows thousands lines and I'm still waiting for end of this shit:)

This shows me this:)
https://i.imgur.com/KnpsWVW.png

[vbnetkhio]

samtools view -H filename.bam
This command should show only header, but it shows thousands lines and I'm still waiting for end of this shit:)

This shows me this:)
https://i.imgur.com/KnpsWVW.png

could this actually be fastq files, labelled as BAM?

fastq files have lines like this (with the "HWUSI", etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTQ_format#Illumina_sequence_identifiers

[Lucas]

could this actually be fastq files, labelled as BAM?

fastq files have lines like this (with the "HWUSI", etc.)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FASTQ_format#Illumina_sequence_identifiers

Yes.... possible:) Those who made it are not the smartest ones geneticists.

[vbnetkhio]

Yes.... possible:) Those who made it are not the smartest ones geneticists.

they are in hg19 according to the study. did you try running them trough fastq to bam?

[Dick]

Yes.... possible:) Those who made it are not the smartest ones geneticists.

Are you implying they're not Slavs

[Leto]

@Lucas,
You've ignored me for some reason but I'm trying to unify the name on Dodecad K12b 'cause there is an unnecessary discrepancy going on there.
Please delete these:
Iran_Arab, Iraqi_Arab, Lur_Iran, Iraqi_Turkmen, Iran_Bandari, Iran_Mazandaran, Iran_Khorasan, Yagnobi
and replace them with these:


Arab_Iran,18.52,0.29,2.61,0.21,6.69,3.63,4.18,3.35 ,23.35,0.45,34.63,1.87
Arab_Iraq,16.56,0.45,2.95,0.27,8.15,3,3.31,3.67,25 .43,0.78,33.56,1.82
Iranian_Bandari,35.42,0.33,0.37,0.70,2.01,6.42,11. 00,1.81,11.25,0.00,25.24,5.46
Iranian_Khorasan,28.01,1.89,0.34,0.29,6.34,9.65,7. 63,0.44,10.14,2.84,32.17,0.26
Iranian_Lur,27.78,1.32,0.8,0.37,6.35,4.08,4.03,0.5 ,14.64,0.61,39.33,0.2
Iranian_Mazandaran,33.07,0.48,0.25,0.26,2.86,5.68, 5.27,0.32,10.96,0.26,40.38,0.19
Turkmen_Iraq,21.88,1.97,1.20,0.49,7.52,5.40,4.10,0 .79,16.48,1.12,38.44,0.59
Yaghnobi_Tajikistan,30.81,3.92,0,0.44,7.54,22.11,5 .62,0,4.15,2.22,23.18,0

(Yaghnobi is also recalculated, so it's a tiny bit different)

- - - - - -

Adding the Russian average is up to you.

[Lucas]

@Lucas,
You've ignored me for some reason but I'm trying to unify the name on Dodecad K12b 'cause there is an unnecessary discrepancy going on there.
Please delete these:
Iran_Arab, Iraqi_Arab, Lur_Iran, Iraqi_Turkmen, Iran_Bandari, Iran_Mazandaran, Iran_Khorasan, Yagnobi
and replace them with these:


Arab_Iran,18.52,0.29,2.61,0.21,6.69,3.63,4.18,3.35 ,23.35,0.45,34.63,1.87
Arab_Iraq,16.56,0.45,2.95,0.27,8.15,3,3.31,3.67,25 .43,0.78,33.56,1.82
Iranian_Bandari,35.42,0.33,0.37,0.70,2.01,6.42,11. 00,1.81,11.25,0.00,25.24,5.46
Iranian_Khorasan,28.01,1.89,0.34,0.29,6.34,9.65,7. 63,0.44,10.14,2.84,32.17,0.26
Iranian_Lur,27.78,1.32,0.8,0.37,6.35,4.08,4.03,0.5 ,14.64,0.61,39.33,0.2
Iranian_Mazandaran,33.07,0.48,0.25,0.26,2.86,5.68, 5.27,0.32,10.96,0.26,40.38,0.19
Turkmen_Iraq,21.88,1.97,1.20,0.49,7.52,5.40,4.10,0 .79,16.48,1.12,38.44,0.59
Yaghnobi_Tajikistan,30.81,3.92,0,0.44,7.54,22.11,5 .62,0,4.15,2.22,23.18,0

(Yaghnobi is also recalculated, so it's a tiny bit different)

- - - - - -

Adding the Russian average is up to you.

No, I was just busy. Added:)

[Dr_Maul]

No, I was just busy. Added:)

Now there are 2 identical averages with different names in it
Lur_Iran and Iranian_Lur (for naming purposes you should remove Lur_Iran)
Edit: same for Arab_Iraq and Iraq_arab

[Leto]

For Euro K13
Instead of Erzya_Mordovian


Mordovian,22.53,47.66,6.87,7.66,3.52,0.71,1.62,1.0 4,6.12,1.30,0.53,0.24,0.20

(Can be also used as a proxy for "Eastern Russian", although in terms of IBD sharing Mordovians and Russians are markedly different)

Instead of Russian_Pinega (some Pinega kits were used for this one too)


Russian_Northern_Dvina,26.52,49.43,5.57,4.65,1.14, 0.51,0.99,0.44,8.60,1.19,0.47,0.17,0.34

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Northern_Dvina

For Dodecad K12b
Instead of Russian_Arkhangelsk


Russian_Northern_Dvina,3.41,8.26,0.08,0.49,17.35,6 0.85,0.64,0,0.55,1.13,7.23,0


I wanted to do two more Finno-Ugric pops for K13 but sadly the kits I had are now deleted.

[smd555]

Does anybody have these Lithuanian regional averages, but in K-13?:


Lithuanian_PA,0.1337421,0.1241485,0.0796195,0.0746 13,0.0421616,0.0291092,0.0087244,0.0134128,-0.0037324,-0.0263102,-0.0035118,-0. 091044,0.0186756,0.0266472,-0.0118755,0.0034972,0.0042865,0.0010292,0.0039282, 0.0012351,-0.0060519,-0.0032921,0.0093979,-0.006552,-0.0002845
Lithuanian_PZ,0.1356773,0.1255195,0.0883971,0.0871 131,0.044562,0.035447,0.0106459,0.0156685,-0.0030065,-0.0347524,-0.0067879,-0.0129784,0.0230573,0.0315155,-0.0071118,-0.0032219,-0.0034813,-0.0016344,0.000817,0.0034265,-0.0023459,-0.0059477,0.0084426,-0.0090132,0.0005148
Lithuanian_RA,0.135108,0.1240977,0.083306,0.080523 9,0.0431158,0.0294229,0.0123146,0.015207,-0.0044994,-0.0323469,-0.0030203,-0.012469,0.0240532,0.0300018,-0.0152957,0.0017237,0.0070014,-0.0013936,0.00494,0.0030138,-0.0053282,-0.0060342,0.010057,-0.0066392,-0.0003714
Lithuanian_SZ,0.1347664,0.1258242,0.0861344,0.0877 268,0.0448392,0.0315424,0.0128081,0.0185529,-0.0019633,-0.0353537,-0.0039137,-0.0127386,0.0235031,0.0296026,-0.0123914,0.0018563,0.005111,-0.0012796,0.0020866,0.0021511,-0.0029574,-0.0067636,0.0070251,-0.0104229,0.0029337
Lithuanian_VA,0.1344249,0.1257226,0.0824762,0.0750 975,0.0433311,0.027889,0.0099878,0.014884,-0.0020454,-0.0298685,-0.0029553,-0.0138328,0.0200394,0.0280062,-0.0110613,0.0029435,0.0061411,-0.0005702,0.0023129,0.0061155,-0.003731,-0.00481,0.0072346,-0.0078805,-0.0008622
Lithuanian_VZ,0.1372991,0.1261795,0.0850879,0.0823 65,0.0444314,0.0326652,0.0104872,0.0176242,-0.0036048,-0.0315269,-0.0036131,-0.0097039,0.0199762,0.0301394,-0.0104505,-0.0045578,-0.0006029,0.0012828,0.0032525,0.0013445,-0.0043829,-0.0056728,0.00835,-0.005874,-0.001317

[Peterski]

Does anybody have these Lithuanian regional averages, but in K-13?:

I can calculate.

[Leto]

I can calculate.
Hey Piotr, please calculate Komi and Udmurt for K13. I'm sure you know that old data, I had the kits but they're deleted now, I don't know who else can do it.

[smd555]

I can calculate.

It would be great!

[Leto]

Some more renaming: instead of Sweden, Norway and Denmark


Danish,50.61,28.70,10.19,5.00,2.12,0.52,0.99,0.19, 0.42,0.59,0.23,0.12,0.17
Norwegian_South_Central,50.83,28.97,9.61,4.78,1.91 ,0.62,0.94,0.11,0.63,0.68,0.56,0.13,0.23
Swedish_Götaland,50.53,29.29,9.86,4.67,1.88,0.62,0 .93,0.21,0.69,0.55,0.41,0.18,0.2
Swedish_Svealand_East,46.74,34.13,8.85,3.92,1.19,0 .53,0.97,0.27,1.69,0.86,0.56,0.19,0.12
Swedish_Svealand_West,49.72,30.6,9.57,4.11,1.75,0. 46,1.03,0.19,1.05,0.53,0.45,0.27,0.27

[Kyp]

For Dodecadk12b:


Iranian_Fars,27.45,0.89,1.31,0.74,5.59,6.25,6.10,1 .25,14.09,1.23,34.77,0.33
Kurd_Feyli,27.47,1.12,1.26,0.33,4.98,5.36,3.77,0.3 4,14.60,0.30,40.12,0.14
Iranian_Kerman,29.71,0.99,0.30,0.21,6.09,8.31,7.60 ,0.85,12.19,0.34,32.96,0.49

[Lucas]

For Dodecadk12b:


Iranian_Fars,27.45,0.89,1.31,0.74,5.59,6.25,6.10,1 .25,14.09,1.23,34.77,0.33
Kurd_Feyli,27.47,1.12,1.26,0.33,4.98,5.36,3.77,0.3 4,14.60,0.30,40.12,0.14
Iranian_Kerman,29.71,0.99,0.30,0.21,6.09,8.31,7.60 ,0.85,12.19,0.34,32.96,0.49

added

[Leto]

Kurd_Adygea can be safely removed, it's not a separate population.

[J. Ketch]

Dodecad K12b update


Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
English,8.91,0.26,0.35,0.02,38.59,43.44,0.20,0.08, 0.86,0.04,7.16,0.03
Irish,10.60,0.28,0.05,0.04,39.14,44.43,0.21,0.03,0 .08,0.02,5.06,0.01
Scottish,10.19,0.22,0.19,0.12,38.52,44.22,0.22,0.0 1,0.47,0.03,5.74,0.00

Belgian - 15
English_mixed - 56
Irish - 37
Scottish - 26

[Leto]

Dodecad K12b update


Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
English_mixed,8.91,0.26,0.35,0.02,38.59,43.44,0.20 ,0.08,0.86,0.04,7.16,0.03
Irish,10.60,0.28,0.05,0.04,39.14,44.43,0.21,0.03,0 .08,0.02,5.06,0.01
Scottish,10.19,0.22,0.19,0.12,38.52,44.22,0.22,0.0 1,0.47,0.03,5.74,0.00

Belgian - 15
English_mixed - 56
Irish - 37
Scottish - 26
Great stuff but is the word "mixed" really necessary? Maybe just call it English?

[J. Ketch]

Great stuff but is the word "mixed" really necessary? Maybe just call it English?
OK, I changed it.

[celticdragongod]

Distance to: CDG
1.27432335 Irish
1.49361976 Scottish
3.35353545 English
7.89397872 Belgian

Target: CDG
Distance: 1.2421% / 1.24211513
74.4 Irish
25.6 Scottish

[Peterski]

For K13 and K15:


Polish_HolyCross,29.30,45.17,10.56,5.45,5.36,0.76, 1.36,0.15,0.37,0.81,0.40,0.28,0.03
Polish_HolyCross,22.19,16.32,28.41,19.86,6.10,3.84 ,1.17,0.65,0.82,0,0,0.21,0.19,0.20,0.02

Also change the name "Ukrainian_Kiev_Avg" to just "Ukrainian_Kiev".

[Leto]

@Lucas
Can you please add "_Kurd" to Yazidi and Zaza? Not my wish, there were some serious complaints about it.

[Kaazi]

@Lucas, A correction was due. Please update/replace this in harappaworld. n=9


Nepali_Khas_Kshatriya,32.61,26.61,4.74,7.90,1.88,3 .58,18.85,0.66,0.93,0.65,0.92,0.54,0.09,0.00,0.02, 0.01

[Kyp]

For Dodecadk12b (replace with the old one pls):


Kurd_Sorani,26.73,0.81,0.71,0.51,6.50,6.64,3.39,0. 24,14.97,0.66,38.80,0.03

[Dr_Maul]

Not Gedmatch but vahaduo related, 2 of the Iraqi Individual modern samples on G25 are very clearly 50% White or European of some sort.


Target: Iraqi:5AJ1
Distance: 2.0560% / 0.02056050 | R2P
56.6 Talysh_Azerbaijan
43.4 French_Pas-de-Calais

Target: Iraqi:11AR126
Distance: 1.8420% / 0.01841985 | R2P
50.2 Afrikaner
49.8 Karaite_Egypt

[vbnetkhio]

could you add these to g25?


Scaled

HUN_Gava_BA:I20771,0.144555,0.133034,0.063356,0.04 7481,0.051394,0.018407,0.00282,0.004384,0.010431,0 .011481,-0.000487,-0.01139,-0.001635,0.003578,-0.007736,0.017369,0.024903,-0.011149,0,0.013632,0.007736,0.003586,0.000739,-0.014339,-0.00491
HUN_Hatvan-Fuzesabony_BA:I20772,0.134311,0.132019,0.065996,0. 057494,0.031083,0.026216,0.008695,0.007846,0.00818 1,-0.015672,-0.002598,-0.003297,0.005203,0.004266,0.007872,0.010475,-0.001434,-0.003294,-0.000377,0.008754,0.010981,0.002226,0.000739,-0.006386,-0.003832
HUN_LaTene_IA:I20774,0.137726,0.137096,0.061471,0. 046835,0.042469,0.020638,0.00376,0.008307,0.00634,-0.000911,-0.01023,0.000599,-0.001933,0.011698,0.006107,-0.00358,-0.019297,0.008361,0.007668,-0.003752,0.004367,0.006306,-0.001356,-0.004699,0.003473
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20743,0.141141,0.140143,0.075047, 0.046189,0.047086,0.014781,0.004465,0.004846,0.017 794,0.007289,-0.000812,0.001948,0.00223,0.004129,-0.002443,0.012994,0.008345,-0.008995,0.000377,0.016883,0.007612,0.007666,0.003 574,-0.024582,0.000599
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20745,0.141141,0.135065,0.075424, 0.070414,0.042777,0.014502,0.002585,-0.000231,0.000818,-0.012574,0,-0.004946,0.010852,0.00867,-0.00095,0.006762,0.016168,-0.000127,0.01169,0.007128,0.001373,-0.007296,0.000123,-0.009037,-0.001676
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20746,0.141141,0.136081,0.054682, 0.017119,0.045239,0.013108,0.000235,-0.001154,0.013294,0.010387,-0.002273,0.003447,-0.004608,-0.000413,-0.00855,0.007292,0.020861,0.004307,0.006159,0.0106 3,0.002745,-0.000989,0.001972,0.00241,0.000599
RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:I20784,0.141141,0.117801,0.045632 ,0.07429,0.002462,0.022311,0.002115,0.012461,-0.00634,-0.032074,-0.004872,0.003147,-0.003271,-0.025735,0.007057,0.015248,0.010822,-0.004181,-0.008045,0.014882,0.00287,0.002597,-0.008627,0.003615,-0.008742
UKR_Meso:I20753_dup.I5885,0.142279,0.089367,0.1636 7,0.180881,0.068936,0.049921,0.001645,0.014769,0.0 24134,-0.044101,0.004222,-0.019033,0.03107,-0.019267,0.017508,0.032219,0.009779,-0.001267,-0.005405,0.032391,0.028325,0.014344,-0.015159,-0.07001,0.005987

Raw

HUN_Gava_BA:I20771,0.0127,0.0131,0.0168,0.0147,0.0 167,0.0066,0.0012,0.0019,0.0051,0.0063,-0.0003,-0.0076,-0.0011,0.0026,-0.0057,0.0131,0.0191,-0.0088,0,0.0109,0.0062,0.0029,0.0006,-0.0119,-0.0041
HUN_Hatvan-Fuzesabony_BA:I20772,0.0118,0.013,0.0175,0.0178,0. 0101,0.0094,0.0037,0.0034,0.004,-0.0086,-0.0016,-0.0022,0.0035,0.0031,0.0058,0.0079,-0.0011,-0.0026,-0.0003,0.007,0.0088,0.0018,0.0006,-0.0053,-0.0032
HUN_LaTene_IA:I20774,0.0121,0.0135,0.0163,0.0145,0 .0138,0.0074,0.0016,0.0036,0.0031,-0.0005,-0.0063,0.0004,-0.0013,0.0085,0.0045,-0.0027,-0.0148,0.0066,0.0061,-0.003,0.0035,0.0051,-0.0011,-0.0039,0.0029
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20743,0.0124,0.0138,0.0199,0.0143 ,0.0153,0.0053,0.0019,0.0021,0.0087,0.004,-0.0005,0.0013,0.0015,0.003,-0.0018,0.0098,0.0064,-0.0071,0.0003,0.0135,0.0061,0.0062,0.0029,-0.0204,0.0005
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20745,0.0124,0.0133,0.02,0.0218,0 .0139,0.0052,0.0011,-0.0001,0.0004,-0.0069,0,-0.0033,0.0073,0.0063,-0.0007,0.0051,0.0124,-0.0001,0.0093,0.0057,0.0011,-0.0059,0.0001,-0.0075,-0.0014
HUN_Vekerzug_IA:I20746,0.0124,0.0134,0.0145,0.0053 ,0.0147,0.0047,0.0001,-0.0005,0.0065,0.0057,-0.0014,0.0023,-0.0031,-0.0003,-0.0063,0.0055,0.016,0.0034,0.0049,0.0085,0.0022,-0.0008,0.0016,0.002,0.0005
RUS_Fatyanovo_BA:I20784,0.0124,0.0116,0.0121,0.023 ,0.0008,0.008,0.0009,0.0054,-0.0031,-0.0176,-0.003,0.0021,-0.0022,-0.0187,0.0052,0.0115,0.0083,-0.0033,-0.0064,0.0119,0.0023,0.0021,-0.007,0.003,-0.0073
UKR_Meso:I20753_dup.I5885,0.0125,0.0088,0.0434,0.0 56,0.0224,0.0179,0.0007,0.0064,0.0118,-0.0242,0.0026,-0.0127,0.0209,-0.014,0.0129,0.0243,0.0075,-0.001,-0.0043,0.0259,0.0227,0.0116,-0.0123,-0.0581,0.005

[Leto]

Overlooked back in December 2020!


For K13 from an academic source


Libyan,6.27,0.45,16.18,1.23,31.33,22.97,0.17,0.57, 0.54,0.38,0.36,10.54,9.00
North_Moroccan,13.61,0.33,24.13,0.00,26.53,15.06,0 .11,0.30,0.43,0.27,0.41,9.87,8.94
South_Moroccan,7.36,0.01,24.75,0.00,23.90,18.04,0. 00,0.14,0.32,0.07,0.35,12.66,12.39



Also Creoda's update for Dodecad

Dodecad K12b update


Belgian,7.56,0.17,0.66,0.09,37.35,40.90,0.43,0.10, 2.17,0.12,10.34,0.06
English,8.91,0.26,0.35,0.02,38.59,43.44,0.20,0.08, 0.86,0.04,7.16,0.03
Irish,10.60,0.28,0.05,0.04,39.14,44.43,0.21,0.03,0 .08,0.02,5.06,0.01
Scottish,10.19,0.22,0.19,0.12,38.52,44.22,0.22,0.0 1,0.47,0.03,5.74,0.00

Belgian - 15
English_mixed - 56
Irish - 37
Scottish - 26

[Eleonor]

K15 updated

Distance to: Eleonor
4.97232340 French_North-East
5.23052579 German_Bavarian
5.31031073 French_Alsace
5.45021101 Dutch_South
5.77921275 Belgian
6.00448999 Afrikaner
6.17663339 Swiss_German
6.86713186 French_Brittany
7.64792782 Pennsylvania_Dutch
7.92807038 English_Southeast
8.03269569 French_Central
8.20984165 West_German
8.47274454 English_Midlands
8.56854130 English
8.61048198 English_Southwest
8.64942773 North_German
9.14555630 Welsh
9.17817520 English_North
9.48264731 Dutch
9.55251276 Austria-Burgenland

More accurate for me than other calculators :)

Target: Eleonor
Distance: 1.1389% / 1.13885436
55.6 West_Norwegian
19.6 French_Basque
10.0 Lithuanian
8.9 Sardinian
5.9 North_Ossetian


Distance to: Eleonor
3.79790235 85.80% North_German + 14.20% Sardinian
3.89382498 32.00% English_Southwest + 68.00% French_Alsace
3.92996994 69.80% French_Alsace + 30.20% Welsh
3.96487063 24.80% East_German + 75.20% French_North-East
3.98044908 61.40% French_Alsace + 38.60% French_Brittany
3.99495766 29.80% English_North + 70.20% French_Alsace
4.00597242 31.60% English + 68.40% French_Alsace
4.04285027 33.60% English_Southeast + 66.40% French_Alsace
4.04510947 31.60% English_Midlands + 68.40% French_Alsace
4.07125831 74.00% French_Alsace + 26.00% Irish_Leinster
4.07587666 92.00% French_North-East + 8.00% Lithuanian
4.08467180 75.00% French_Alsace + 25.00% Irish_Munster
4.08995627 75.40% French_Alsace + 24.60% Irish_Ulster
4.09234242 75.20% French_Alsace + 24.80% Irish
4.09442766 88.40% French_North-East + 11.60% Polish_Masuria
4.09462097 92.60% French_North-East + 7.40% Latvian
4.12601640 89.40% French_North-East + 10.60% Polish
4.13026314 9.40% Estonian + 90.60% French_North-East
4.13975531 73.80% French_Brittany + 26.20% Slovenian
4.14302072 74.80% French_Alsace + 25.20% Scottish
4.16594040 77.20% French_Alsace + 22.80% Irish_Connacht
4.18004854 48.40% Dutch_South + 51.60% French_Alsace
4.18158131 87.80% French_North-East + 12.20% Sorb_Lusatia
4.19210442 8.40% Estonian_Polish + 91.60% French_North-East
4.19969059 8.40% Belorussian + 91.60% French_North-East

[Jana]

Could you replace old Montenegrin average with new, weighted one?


Montenegrin,24.13,26.54,18.30,9.74,17.15,2.10,0.23 ,0.26,0.68,0.40,0.32,0.07,0.06

Vbnethkio made it.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

This may be of interest to some of you.




Another off-topic:

https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB39997

Ancient DNA from pre-Slavic and Slavic individuals was extracted to compare human genetic diversity before and after a possible demographic event traditionally associated with Slavic ethnogenesis.
Study Title: Genetic Diversity in Migration Period and Early Middle Ages
Center Name: University of Fribourg
Study Name: Pre-Slavic and Slavic Ancient DNA

Each sample consists of 10 or 12 paired reads (20 or 24 fastq files), but I've used only one file per sample because all of them combined weight more than a half terabyte. Outcome is quite noisy as the reads weren't processed in any way besides mapping and genotyping. Treat everything here as preliminary.

LIB11 https://www.yfull.com/tree/E-L241/
LIB2 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z180/
LIB3 NA
POH11 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z283/
POH13 NA
POH27 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-P312/ eventually https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Y3267/
POH28 https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z92/
POH3 NA
POH36 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-S17250/
POH40 NA
POH41 https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Z16971/
POH44 in progress
April 15, 2021 at 1:26 AM




Arza, I already know - LIB is Breclav-Libiva (5th century), POH is Pohansko (early Middle Ages). There is little LIB, so maybe you can analyze it.
April 15, 2021 at 2:48 AM


@Arza

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-j0eiVXWod38YgO8nhSeUIQUBJIWFbTx/view?usp=sharing



Vahaduo
Admixture JS
Target: Migration:POH41
Distance: 2.5056% / 0.02505599 | R3P
75.4 Latvian
15.0 Spanish_La_Rioja
9.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia

Target: Migration:POH40
Distance: 2.9513% / 0.02951252 | R3P
55.4 Lithuanian_SZ
39.6 French_Pas-de-Calais
5.0 Georgian_Imer

Target: Migration:POH36
Distance: 2.9708% / 0.02970802 | R3P
47.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
39.0 Lithuanian_VA
13.6 Spanish_La_Rioja

Target: Migration:POH28
Distance: 3.3861% / 0.03386055 | R3P
91.8 Lithuanian_PZ
8.2 Sardinian

Target: Migration:POH27
Distance: 2.9932% / 0.02993200 | R3P
66.8 Rumelia_East
22.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
10.8 Spanish_Soria

Target: Migration:POH13
Distance: 2.6572% / 0.02657205 | R3P
90.0 Lithuanian_VZ
6.2 Lithuanian_PZ
3.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ

Target: Migration:POH11
Distance: 2.8810% / 0.02880995 | R3P
52.2 Bosnian
24.4 Lithuanian_RA
23.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz

Target: Migration:POH3
Distance: 3.1256% / 0.03125567 | R3P
68.4 Russian_Voronez
21.0 Sardinian
10.6 Abkhasian

Target: Migration:LIB11
Distance: 2.2954% / 0.02295351 | R3P
84.8 Sorb_Niederlausitz
8.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
7.2 Georgian_Imer

Target: Migration:LIB3
Distance: 2.8603% / 0.02860342 | R3P
38.0 Spanish_Asturias
36.6 Italian_Molise
25.4 Italian_Liguria

Target: Migration:LIB2
Distance: 2.9582% / 0.02958156 | R3P
64.4 Danish
25.0 Icelandic
10.6 Lithuanian_PZ

[Lucas]

This may be of interest to some of you.









Vahaduo
Admixture JS
Target: Migration:POH41
Distance: 2.5056% / 0.02505599 | R3P
75.4 Latvian
15.0 Spanish_La_Rioja
9.6 Greek_Central_Anatolia

Target: Migration:POH40
Distance: 2.9513% / 0.02951252 | R3P
55.4 Lithuanian_SZ
39.6 French_Pas-de-Calais
5.0 Georgian_Imer

Target: Migration:POH36
Distance: 2.9708% / 0.02970802 | R3P
47.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
39.0 Lithuanian_VA
13.6 Spanish_La_Rioja

Target: Migration:POH28
Distance: 3.3861% / 0.03386055 | R3P
91.8 Lithuanian_PZ
8.2 Sardinian

Target: Migration:POH27
Distance: 2.9932% / 0.02993200 | R3P
66.8 Rumelia_East
22.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz
10.8 Spanish_Soria

Target: Migration:POH13
Distance: 2.6572% / 0.02657205 | R3P
90.0 Lithuanian_VZ
6.2 Lithuanian_PZ
3.8 Berber_MAR_TIZ

Target: Migration:POH11
Distance: 2.8810% / 0.02880995 | R3P
52.2 Bosnian
24.4 Lithuanian_RA
23.4 Sorb_Niederlausitz

Target: Migration:POH3
Distance: 3.1256% / 0.03125567 | R3P
68.4 Russian_Voronez
21.0 Sardinian
10.6 Abkhasian

Target: Migration:LIB11
Distance: 2.2954% / 0.02295351 | R3P
84.8 Sorb_Niederlausitz
8.0 Berber_Tunisia_Chen
7.2 Georgian_Imer

Target: Migration:LIB3
Distance: 2.8603% / 0.02860342 | R3P
38.0 Spanish_Asturias
36.6 Italian_Molise
25.4 Italian_Liguria

Target: Migration:LIB2
Distance: 2.9582% / 0.02958156 | R3P
64.4 Danish
25.0 Icelandic
10.6 Lithuanian_PZ



added
Do you know link to paper?

[Leto]

Hey Luke, don't miss the Creoda update! ;)

[Leto]

By the way, can someone add Lezgins to G25? You may as well use the old Behar data, doesn't matter since the calculator effect doesn't apply to G25.

[Lucas]

By the way, can someone add Lezgins to G25? You may as well use the old Behar data, doesn't matter since the calculator effect doesn't apply to G25.

They aren't there????????

[Leto]

They aren't there????????
Nope. Dawid has completely ignored them.

[Andrea]

Could someone build a PCA chart for me to understand how he positioned me genetically?
This is my k13 results:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.08
2 East_Med 27.29
3 West_Med 23.49
4 Baltic 8.98
5 West_Asian 7.23
6 Red_Sea 3.34
7 Northeast_African 0.69
8 Oceanian 0.49
9 Amerindian 0.41

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 3.19
2 West_Sicilian 7.35
3 North_Italian 8.1
4 Italian_Abruzzo 9.07
5 Greek_Thessaly 11.41
6 East_Sicilian 12.32
7 Central_Greek 12.47
8 South_Italian 12.99
9 Ashkenazi 14.13
10 Spanish_Extremadura 15.38
11 Portuguese 15.51
12 Spanish_Murcia 15.97
13 Spanish_Andalucia 15.98
14 Italian_Jewish 16.35
15 Spanish_Valencia 16.49
16 Sephardic_Jewish 17.01
17 Bulgarian 17.03
18 Spanish_Galicia 17.15
19 Algerian_Jewish 17.49
20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 17.52

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 51.8% Italian_Jewish + 48.2% Spanish_Cataluna @ 2.27
2 67.7% North_Italian + 32.3% Italian_Jewish @ 2.49
3 59.3% Ashkenazi + 40.7% Spanish_Aragon @ 2.64
4 50.2% Italian_Jewish + 49.8% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.67
5 54% Ashkenazi + 46% Spanish_Valencia @ 2.79
6 67% Spanish_Valencia + 33% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.8
7 70% Ashkenazi + 30% French_Basque @ 2.82
8 92.6% Tuscan + 7.4% Italian_Jewish @ 2.92
9 53.2% Ashkenazi + 46.8% Spanish_Andalucia @ 2.95
10 67.5% Spanish_Valencia + 32.5% Lebanese_Christian @ 2.99
11 57.6% Italian_Jewish + 42.4% Southwest_French @ 3.03
12 95.7% Tuscan + 4.3% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.04
13 95.8% Tuscan + 4.2% Libyan_Jewish @ 3.05
14 95% Tuscan + 5% Algerian_Jewish @ 3.06
15 95% Tuscan + 5% Sephardic_Jewish @ 3.07
16 98.3% Tuscan + 1.7% Yemenite_Jewish @ 3.09
17 97.9% Tuscan + 2.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.11
18 95.2% Tuscan + 4.8% Ashkenazi @ 3.11
19 73.8% North_Italian + 26.2% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.13
20 70.9% West_Sicilian + 29.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.14
This i my k15 v2 results:
# Population Percent
1 East_Med 23.89
2 Atlantic 21.83
3 West_Med 19.12
4 North_Sea 15.49
5 West_Asian 8.48
6 Baltic 5.72
7 Red_Sea 3.1
8 Eastern_Euro 1.18
9 Northeast_African 0.73
10 Oceanian 0.34
11 Amerindian 0.11

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 Tuscan 4.22
2 West_Sicilian 7.32
3 North_Italian 8
4 Italian_Abruzzo 8.57
5 East_Sicilian 11.26
6 Greek 11.4
7 Greek_Thessaly 11.47
8 Central_Greek 11.6
9 South_Italian 12.11
10 Ashkenazi 13.65
11 Spanish_Murcia 14.18
12 Spanish_Extremadura 14.28
13 Spanish_Andalucia 14.57
14 Portuguese 14.65
15 Italian_Jewish 14.8
16 Bulgarian 15.51
17 Spanish_Valencia 15.66
18 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon 15.72
19 Spanish_Cataluna 15.72
20 Spanish_Galicia 15.87

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 54.2% South_Italian + 45.8% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.2
2 51.6% Italian_Jewish + 48.4% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.3
3 81.7% North_Italian + 18.3% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.32
4 56.9% South_Italian + 43.1% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.37
5 61.4% Spanish_Cataluna + 38.6% Cyprian @ 3.43
6 67.9% Spanish_Cataluna + 32.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.44
7 67.6% Spanish_Cataluna + 32.4% Lebanese_Christian @ 3.49
8 63.5% Spanish_Cantabria + 36.5% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.61
9 66.8% North_Italian + 33.2% Italian_Jewish @ 3.65
10 64% Spanish_Murcia + 36% Cyprian @ 3.66
11 70.7% West_Sicilian + 29.3% Spanish_Cataluna @ 3.67
12 67.9% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + 32.1% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.75
13 57% South_Italian + 43% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 3.75
14 52.9% West_Sicilian + 47.1% North_Italian @ 3.76
15 70.3% Spanish_Murcia + 29.7% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.76
16 56.9% South_Italian + 43.1% Spanish_Valencia @ 3.78
17 73.9% North_Italian + 26.1% Tunisian_Jewish @ 3.79
18 68% Spanish_Valencia + 32% Lebanese_Druze @ 3.8
19 68.7% West_Sicilian + 31.3% Spanish_Murcia @ 3.86
20 66.6% Spanish_Cataluna + 33.4% Samaritan @ 3.89

[Petalpusher]

Could someone build a PCA chart for me to understand how he positioned me genetically?
This is my k13 results:
# Population Percent
1 North_Atlantic 28.08
2 East_Med 27.29
3 West_Med 23.49
4 Baltic 8.98
5 West_Asian 7.23
6 Red_Sea 3.34
7 Northeast_African 0.69
8 Oceanian 0.49
9 Amerindian 0.41


You can use this K15 tool to make your own easily:
https://gen3553.pagesperso-orange.fr/ADN/K15.htm

Spoiler alert you are going to be somewhere around Tuscany, maybe a bit south of it. So regular central Italian.

[Leto]

Could someone build a PCA chart for me to understand how he positioned me genetically?
This is my k13 results:

Hello and welcome! Where in Italy are you from?

These are your results in Vahaduo format.
K13


Andrea,28.08,8.98,23.49,7.23,27.29,3.34,0,0,0,0.41 ,0.49,0.69,0

K15


Andrea,15.49,21.83,5.72,1.18,19.12,8.48,23.89,3.10 ,0,0,0,0.11,0.34,0.73,0


Can you also post Dodecad K12b?

[Andrea]

I tried to use this tool, but i can't use the pixels on my paint,
Can you do this for me?
However thanks for the answer.

[Jana]

Please add this K13 Bosniak average (made by Vbn), but don't delete other ones as they are useful to see genetic diversity among them (generic "Bosniak" one is from academic from capital afaik)


Bosniak_Bosnia,25.73,35.04,14.18,8.58,12.19,1.26,0 .98,0.31,0.62,0.60,0.25,0.16,0.10

[Andrea]

I'm for an half from south italy and for an half from north italy,
can you do for me the chart,'cause i can't make it on my computer

[Andrea]

I'm for an half from south italy and for an half from north italy,
can you do for me the chart,'cause i can't make it on my computer

[Leto]

I'm for an half from south italy and for an half from north italy,
can you do for me the chart,'cause i can't make it on my computer
K13


Distance to: Andrea
4.91770272 Italian_Tuscan
5.14414230 Italian_Romagna
5.18950865 Italian_Umbria
5.42213980 Italian_Marche
5.54012635 Italian_Lazio
5.54215662 Italian
6.19281842 France_Corsica
7.06570591 Italian_Emilia
7.49821312 Italian_Liguria
9.57047543 Greek_Western-Thrace
9.65947204 Italian_Lombardy
10.24751677 Italian_Abruzzo
11.02550679 Italian_Molise
11.05994123 Albanian_Tosk
11.23399306 Italian_Basilicata
11.73660939 Italian_Veneto
11.91765078 Italian_Piedmont
12.05558792 Albanian
12.05647959 Torbesh_average
12.12801715 Italian_Apulia

Distance to: Andrea
2.09503482 44.00% Italian_Jewish + 56.00% Swiss-Italian2
2.10050820 66.40% Italian_Lombardy + 33.60% Italian_Jewish
2.18468607 63.60% Italian_Lombardy + 36.40% Moroccan_Jew
2.28485110 45.20% France_south + 54.80% Italian_Jewish
2.32473864 52.80% Moldova_Jewish + 47.20% Spanish_Valencia
2.32774624 58.20% Moldova_Jewish + 41.80% Spanish_Aragon
2.38041062 43.00% Italian_Jewish + 57.00% Swiss_Italian
2.42687249 69.80% Italian_Liguria + 30.20% Moroccan_Jew
2.47358389 52.00% Italian_Jewish + 48.00% Spanish_Cataluna
2.54445460 47.00% Moroccan_Jew + 53.00% Swiss-Italian2
2.57855468 67.40% Italian_Lombardy + 32.60% Sephardic_Jewish
2.58431639 31.00% French_Basque + 69.00% Moldova_Jewish
2.63295097 72.20% Italian_Lombardy + 27.80% Tunisian_Jewish
2.66806594 52.00% Moldova_Jewish + 48.00% Spanish_Andalucia
2.67030736 72.60% Italian_Liguria + 27.40% Italian_Jewish
2.75832930 59.00% Italian_Veneto + 41.00% Moroccan_Jew
2.80140351 34.60% France_south-west + 65.40% Moldova_Jewish
2.80586392 58.60% Italian_Piedmont + 41.40% Moroccan_Jew
2.82794185 59.00% France_Provence + 41.00% Italian_Jewish
2.89014000 61.60% Italian_Piedmont + 38.40% Italian_Jewish

Target: Andrea
Distance: 1.9016% / 1.90161561 | ADC: 0.25x RC
33.3 Moroccan_Jew
31.9 Italian_Lombardy
19.4 Swiss_Italian
15.4 Italian_Marche


K15


Distance to: Andrea
4.87293546 Tuscan
5.22215473 Italy_Lazio
5.64663617 France_Corsica
5.87819700 Italy_Tuscany
6.04270635 Italy_Marche
6.20279776 Italy_Emiliaromagna
7.20240238 Italy_Liguria
8.46743172 West_Sicilian
9.80672728 Italy_Lombardy
10.07893844 Albanian-South
10.27694021 Sicily_Syracuse
10.89792182 Sicily_Trapani
11.11440957 Albanian-North
11.29340958 Albanian-Kosovo
11.32818167 Albanian-Macedonia
11.77690537 Italy_Abruzzo
11.83464828 Kosovo_Albanian
12.03754958 Italy_Veneto
12.09551570 Italy_Friuli
12.09971487 Italy_Apulia

Distance to: Andrea
2.73911369 36.20% Cypriot + 63.80% Spanish_Cataluna
2.84571360 33.60% Cypriot + 66.40% Spanish_Murcia
2.97765621 56.00% Italy_Lombardy + 44.00% Sicily_Enna
3.07800177 36.00% Cypriot + 64.00% Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon
3.12895269 39.20% Cypriot + 60.80% French_South
3.16611103 45.80% Italy_Lombardy + 54.20% West_Sicilian
3.37648437 71.60% Italy_Lombardy + 28.40% Tunisian_Jewish
3.41901395 66.80% Italy_Lombardy + 33.20% Sephardic_Jewish
3.60643213 33.00% Algerian_Jewish + 67.00% Italy_Lombardy
3.62419223 78.80% Italy_Liguria + 21.20% Tunisian_Jewish
3.64155607 10.20% French_Basque + 89.80% Italy_Lazio
3.65195010 55.20% Italy_West_Sicily + 44.80% Spanish_Murcia
3.66161494 56.40% Italy_Campania + 43.60% Spanish_Murcia
3.66735869 55.20% Sicily_Agrigento + 44.80% Spanish_Murcia
3.67075508 52.00% Italian_Jewish + 48.00% Spanish_Cataluna
3.69187402 33.20% Lebanese_Christian + 66.80% Spanish_Cataluna
3.70953042 51.20% Italy_Calabria + 48.80% Spanish_Murcia
3.72934033 63.80% Sicily_Trapani + 36.20% Spanish_Valencia
3.74503075 41.80% Italy_Campania + 58.20% Italy_Lombardy
3.75622831 65.40% Italy_Liguria + 34.60% Sicily_Enna

Target: Andrea
Distance: 1.7630% / 1.76301456
53.6 Italy_Lombardy
17.8 French_Basque
15.7 Cypriot
7.3 Lebanese_Druze
5.6 Jordanian

[Dušan]

Serbian regional averages that vbnetkhio made few months ago, should be added in updated K13, instead of current averages.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342186-Serbian-autosomal-DNA-2&p=7105129&viewfull=1#post7105129



Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1

[Leto]

@Andrea
Can you post your components from Dodecad K12b?

[Jased]

Your tools are trash, because It hardly dependent/rely on gedmatch which the calculator hasnt been updated since 10 years or more. If you really care about money or costumers then you should add more proper tools for latin americans or mixed populations...

[Varda]

Serbian regional averages that vbnetkhio made few months ago, should be added in updated K13, instead of current averages.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342186-Serbian-autosomal-DNA-2&p=7105129&viewfull=1#post7105129



Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1


:thumb001:

[MoroLP]

Serbian regional averages that vbnetkhio made few months ago, should be added in updated K13, instead of current averages.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342186-Serbian-autosomal-DNA-2&p=7105129&viewfull=1#post7105129



Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1


You should rather ask vbnetkhio about it, but not, we don't need them. As was extensively discussed pages before, for each ethnic group or country is enough only a specific number of averages according to the size of the country, population size, and genetic proximity, and in the case of the Serbs those three+national averages are enough due to all three factors and proximity with neighbors. What needs to be done is having a separate thread with a list of additional regional averages for easy access for those of interest, while lowering the number of mostly Greek samples at the current Vahaduo updated list. Others are mostly fine.

[Leto]

Lukasz, can you finally do that update from my message? I mean you do log in everyday and comment on other things but this stuff is seemingly unimportant to you. Creoda's update is like 2 weeks old or so.

[J. Ketch]

Updated K13 & K15 averages

K13


Afrikaner,43.99,22.81,14.06,4.94,6.33,0.86,2.26,0. 91,0.41,0.5,0.59,0.47,1.84
Belgian,45.18,22.39,15.38,5.53,7.38,1.24,0.92,0.25 ,0.11,0.55,0.45,0.39,0.15
Cornish,50.21,22.76,14.33,5.79,3.84,0.60,0.63,0.06 ,0.17,0.89,0.57,0.04,0.03
Dutch,49.03,25.17,12.15,4.95,4.03,1.15,0.96,0.38,0 .51,0.61,0.43,0.26,0.30
Dutch_Central,49.50,25.39,11.62,4.77,3.79,1.37,0.9 5,0.45,0.46,0.65,0.47,0.24,0.27
Dutch_North,50.24,26.40,10.76,4.82,3.25,0.77,0.88, 0.36,0.55,0.70,0.49,0.31,0.42
Dutch_South,45.99,23.41,15.11,5.15,5.60,1.30,1.03, 0.36,0.54,0.52,0.29,0.34,0.30
English,49.70,23.45,13.68,5.63,3.97,0.71,1.01,0.15 ,0.28,0.57,0.40,0.21,0.17
English_Midlands,49.58,23.45,13.79,5.62,4.06,0.58, 1.07,0.19,0.22,0.50,0.42,0.25,0.20
English_North,50.42,23.90,13.22,5.57,3.36,0.69,1.0 2,0.10,0.28,0.61,0.41,0.18,0.18
English_Southeast,48.94,23.39,13.72,5.65,4.55,0.79 ,1.04,0.18,0.28,0.60,0.42,0.22,0.14
English_Southwest,49.98,23.09,14.31,5.54,3.68,0.67 ,1.05,0.08,0.23,0.57,0.45,0.15,0.12
Flemish,45.61,22.87,15.16,5.62,6.93,0.76,0.95,0.35 ,0.14,0.58,0.42,0.39,0.16
Irish_Connacht,52.48,23.34,12.27,7.06,1.07,0.31,1. 65,0.10,0.26,0.86,0.19,0.21,0.09
Irish_Leinster,51.71,22.91,13.03,6.69,2.04,0.61,1. 14,0.27,0.1,0.76,0.35,0.18,0.15
Irish_Munster,53.09,22.80,12.38,6.70,1.42,0.40,1.3 9,0.16,0.28,0.75,0.27,0.15,0.15
Irish_Ulster,53.20,22.52,12.53,6.87,0.94,0.60,1.43 ,0.09,0.42,0.82,0.31,0.07,0.14
Scottish,51.53,23.28,12.51,6.75,2.48,0.62,1.22,0.1 8,0.30,0.61,0.27,0.14,0.03

Afrikaner - 28
Belgian - 20
Cornish - 9
Dutch - 125
Dutch_Central - 64
Dutch_North - 26
Dutch_South - 25
English - 416
English_Midlands - 62
English_North - 103
English_Southeast - 71
English_Southwest - 28
Flemish – 11
Irish_Connacht - 25
Irish_Leinster - 31
Irish_Munster - 53
Irish_Ulster - 23
Scottish – 37

K15


Afrikaner,31.53,25.40,10.99,8.04,10.21,3.75,3.36,0 .69,2.03,0.71,0.22,0.33,0.42,0.50,1.75
Belgian,32.55,25.96,10.23,8.01,11.61,4.03,4.54,1.0 8,0.78,0.05,0.03,0.32,0.23,0.42,0.09
Cornish,33.56,30.67,9.85,9.02,10.15,3.69,1.31,0.33 ,0.34,0.02,0.03,0.53,0.37,0.04,0.02
Dutch,37.03,25.96,10.81,9.20,8.54,3.18,1.93,0.81,0 .69,0.25,0.28,0.45,0.31,0.22,0.27
Dutch_Central,37.04,26.51,11.05,9.20,7.78,3.09,1.8 2,0.95,0.67,0.30,0.25,0.49,0.35,0.20,0.24
Dutch_North,40.33,24.45,10.84,9.65,7.80,2.60,1.12, 0.41,0.68,0.21,0.36,0.45,0.37,0.24,0.42
Dutch_South,33.45,25.88,10.31,8.57,11.28,3.70,3.23 ,1.13,0.71,0.24,0.33,0.39,0.21,0.27,0.23
English,36.08,28.15,10.13,8.74,9.50,3.75,1.38,0.49 ,0.70,0.05,0.09,0.32,0.24,0.16,0.11
English_Midlands,36.16,27.81,10.01,8.85,9.63,3.78, 1.42,0.47,0.67,0.05,0.07,0.26,0.24,0.20,0.14
English_North,36.52,28.45,10.31,8.90,9.06,3.62,0.9 8,0.43,0.66,0.03,0.10,0.34,0.25,0.16,0.11
English_Southeast,35.58,27.60,10.38,8.44,9.73,3.98 ,1.91,0.55,0.70,0.08,0.10,0.37,0.25,0.15,0.10
English_Southwest,36.07,28.45,9.75,8.77,10.30,3.23 ,1.25,0.49,0.77,0.04,0.07,0.30,0.26,0.11,0.08
Irish_Connacht,37.57,30.18,9.18,9.34,7.35,3.93,0.1 4,0.11,1.09,0.03,0.10,0.62,0.11,0.10,0.08
Irish_Leinster,36.39,30.24,9.49,8.94,8.08,4.34,0.3 0,0.40,0.75,0.16,0.00,0.44,0.18,0.11,0.10
Irish_Munster,37.02,30.48,9.63,8.51,7.64,4.38,0.16 ,0.18,0.90,0.05,0.14,0.50,0.16,0.07,0.10
Irish_Ulster,36.93,30.83,9.29,8.56,7.61,4.34,0.04, 0.29,1.07,0.05,0.17,0.54,0.13,0.04,0.04
Scottish,36.68,29.76,9.38,9.26,8.07,4.18,0.55,0.38 ,0.89,0.05,0.10,0.37,0.13,0.09,0.02

Afrikaner - 28
Belgian - 17
Cornish - 9
Dutch - 123
Dutch_Central - 65
Dutch_North - 27
Dutch_South - 25
English - 286
English_Midlands - 63
English_North - 103
English_Southeast - 75
English_Southwest - 28
Irish_Connacht - 30
Irish_Leinster - 31
Irish_Munster - 65
Irish_Ulster - 24
Scottish - 38

[Lucas]

Ok, I'm adding all recent updates.

[Demhat]

I am going to create my own account there. I hope some people can teach me how to add samples. Is there some tutotials thread around here which I can read?

[Lucas]

Serbian regional averages that vbnetkhio made few months ago, should be added in updated K13, instead of current averages.

https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?342186-Serbian-autosomal-DNA-2&p=7105129&viewfull=1#post7105129



Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Montenegro_South,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,17.5 2,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_B&H_Bosnia_Proper,25.39,31.43,16.48,8.37,14.3,1.35,0 .64,0.36,0.91,0.43,0.26,0.07,0.01
Serb_B&H_Krajina,24.41,31.1,16.68,9.72,14.29,1.21,0.39,0. 24,0.76,0.34,0.69,0.07,0.1
Serb_Croatia_south,25.48,29.52,16.94,8.38,15.57,1. 70,0.48,0.30,0.68,0.44,0.33,0.12,0.05
Serb_Croatia_north,25.22,30.66,16.36,9.3,15.13,1.3 5,0.54,0.29,0.33,0.38,0.35,0.04,0.02
Serb_Serbia_south,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15
Serb_Serbia_west,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1


But what is now is also by Vb. Just we agreed some time ago we don't need too detailed refs for Balkans.

[Leto]

What about those Moroccan and Libyan ones for Euro K13?
Also can you merge Russian_Kursk, Oryol & Voronezh into one? It should be just Russian_Southwest.

[Varda]

But what is now is also by Vb. Just we agreed some time ago we don't need too detailed refs for Balkans.

New regional averages of vbn are more logical than previous. Serb North, Central and South are artificial, because some regions which not geographically and historically connected are included together.
These new averages are much better.

[Leto]

New regional averages of vbn are more logical than previous. Serb North, Central and South are artificial, because some regions which not geographically and historically connected are included together.
These new averages are much better.
I think they are right. 10 averages for Serbia is gigantic. Dushan and someone else have noted that Serbia is not even that diverse. I'm pretty sure 3 Serbian pops would do just fine.

[Varda]

I think they are right. 10 averages for Serbia is gigantic. Dushan and someone else have noted that Serbia is not even that diverse. I'm pretty sure 3 Serbian pops would do just fine.

In Serb central are Lika, Dalmatian and west/central Serbia Serbs who are not connected geographically and historically. On the other hand Kordun/Banija Serbs are in Serb North together with Vojvodinian Serbs, again not connected groups.
Kordun/Banija Serbs are connected with Lika and little less with Dalmatian Serbs.
Serbs regionally (geographically, linguistically) are divided on the line southeast-northwest, not south-north.

[Dušan]

But what is now is also by Vb. Just we agreed some time ago we don't need too detailed refs for Balkans.


I think they are right. 10 averages for Serbia is gigantic. Dushan and someone else have noted that Serbia is not even that diverse. I'm pretty sure 3 Serbian pops would do just fine.

Actually, there are 4 averages for Serbia, 3 for Bosnian Serbs, 1 Montenegrin, and 2 for Serbs from Croatia.

I would merge Serb_Croatia_south and Serb_Croatia_north into one average.

So 9 averages for Serbs is not so much.

[Varda]

Actually, there are 4 averages for Serbia, 3 for Bosnian Serbs, 1 Montenegrin, and 2 for Serbs from Croatia.

I would merge Serb_Croatia_south and Serb_Croatia_north into one average.

So 9 averages for Serbs is not so much.

What about one cluster Serb_Bosnia, instead of Bosanska Krajina and Bosnia proper?

[Varda]

Clusters for Serbs are more complicated than for Bosniaks and Croatians, because Serbs are more numerous and historically live on larger territory.

Ethnic map of Yugoslavia 1981 (blue Serbs, green Bosniaks, orange Croatians)
https://i.ibb.co/bscVKD4/J3-Ds-Zp672qg-URQ-Xpyor0w-EOpysvmi-A8e09-Xddt-ROI-3.jpg

[Leto]

Well, those averages show only minor differences. That's what I'm judging by, of course I don't know about historical divisions of Serbia. But IMO if a country doesn't have massive genetic variation, there shouldn't be a dozen of pops for that country.

[Varda]

Well, those averages show only minor differences. That's what I'm judging by, of course I don't know about historical divisions of Serbia. But IMO if a country doesn't have massive genetic variation, there shouldn't be a dozen of pops for that country.

My proposal for regional Serbian averages:
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
Serb_Serbia_west_and central
Serb_Serbia_south_and_east
Serb_Montenegro
Serb_BiH_Herzegovina
Serb_BiH_Bosnia
Serb_Croatia

[Leto]

In my favorite calculator, Dodecad K12b, we have simply Serbian, Montenegrin, Croatian and Bosnian averages and I think they're decent.

[Leto]

My proposal for regional Serbian averages:
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
Serb_Serbia_west_and central
Serb_Serbia_south_and_east
Serb_Montenegro
Serb_BiH_Herzegovina
Serb_BiH_Bosnia
Serb_Croatia
Given that Crna Gora is a sovereign country now (of course Croatia & BiH are too), that may be okay. I can't say much though.

[Varda]

Given that Crna Gora is a sovereign country now (of course Croatia & BiH are too), that may be okay. I can't say much though.

In Serb_Herzegovina cluster vbn included western part of Montenegro known as Old Herzegovina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina
Most of the Old Herzegovina is part of Montenegro since 1878 and smaller part since 1912. I think samples from there should be in Serb_Montenegro cluster. People from Old Herzegovina are mixed with people from other parts of Montenegro for the long time, linguistically they are "montenegrized" and historically Old Herzegovina is tribal region like most of the rest of Montenegro.
In the last over 100 years Herzergovinian Serbs are only from part of Herzegovina which belong to BiH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzegovina), they are not tribal neither montenegrized like people from Old (Montenegrin) Herzegovina.

[Lucas]

I removed Zaza / Kurd-Zaza ref from Dodecad. Some peoople asked to add Kurd, now other on FB ask me to remove because they are not Kurds. I don't want to have such problematic ref anymore.

[Leto]

I removed Zaza / Kurd-Zaza ref from Dodecad. Some peoople asked to add Kurd, now other on FB ask me to remove because they are not Kurds. I don't want to have such problematic ref anymore.
What a bunch of lunatics. But it's a legit population, not made up.

[Demhat]

What a bunch of lunatics. But it's a legit population, not made up.

It's a rather sill small but influental group of people with close ties to the Turkish state most of them not even Zaza to begin with or with any connection to it. The founder of this organisation is Ebubekir Pamukci, who wrote a poem about Atatürk and Turkish nationalism during his time in Turkey. I had personally a conversation with many of them who had a hardcore pro Erdogan stand and most of them couldn't even write in Zazaki. I can literally name every head of these guys a bunch of lunatics.


I knew this would happen this is why I wanted to suffix to be excluded from all samples. These guys are a real pain in the ass. As they are literally paid by Turkish state to do this.

I remember a meeting of a linguist called Ludwig Paul in which he was asked about his thoughts of "Zazaki as Kurdish" in which he answered in Turkish that he has no opinion about this. And which in turn was translated from into Turkish as "Zaza are no Kurds" by the translator.


Ironically the term Zaza is not even used by the majority of the people to begin with as this is a catch up phrase used in Turkish, while most of the speakers call themselfs Kird, Kirmanj or Dimli. Allot of Politics going on there.

If you want to understand more about this problematic read http://www.zazaki.net/haber/is-ankara-promoting-zaza-nationalism-to-divide-the-kurds-279.htm

Zazaki.net is founded by Vate group, this is the biggest Zaza organisation. Almost every book written in this tongue is written by them since the 80s and early 90s.

Best solution is to stand away from this troublesome topic imo.

[Leto]

It's a bunch of people with close ties to the Turkish state most of them not even Zaza to begin with or with any connection to it. The founder of this organisation is Ebubekir Pamukci, who wrote a poem about Atatürk and Turkish nationalism during his time in Turkish prison. I had personally a conversation with many of them who had a hardcore pro Erdogan stand and some of them couldn't even write in Zazaki. I can literally name every head of these guys.


I knew this would happen this is why I wanted to suffix to be excluded from all samples. These guys are a real pain in the ass. As they are literally paid by Turkish state to do this.

I remember a meeting of a linguist called Ludwig Paul in which he was asked about his thoughts of "Zazaki as Kurdish" in which he answered in Turkish that he has no opinion about this. And which in turn was translated from into Turkish as "Zaza are no Kurds" by the translator.


Ironically the term Zaza is not even used by the majority of the people to begin with as this is a catch up phrase used in Turkish, while most of the speakers call themselfs Kird, Kirmanj or Dimli. Allot of Politics going on there.

If you want to understand more about this problematic read http://www.zazaki.net/haber/is-ankara-promoting-zaza-nationalism-to-divide-the-kurds-279.htm

Zazaki.net is founded by Vate group, this is the biggest Zaza organisation. Almost every book written in this tongue is written by them since the 80s and early 90s.

Best solution is to stand away from this troublesome topic imo.
Excluding the word Kurd altogether sounds bad too if it's the actual name of the people.

[Demhat]

Excluding the word Kurd altogether sounds bad too if it's the actual name of the people.

I know but excluding it from one while adding it to another Kurdish group because of some individuals with weird political views is also not a good way.
As it would be a slap into the face of those who do not follow this political ideology.

I can totally understand why Lucas completely removed it.

To prove my point you could add two identical datasets call one just Zaza and the other Zaza_Kurd. And see how this group of people will still complain as it isn't really that they care about this identity and them being "represented" properly. They will complain why there is a Kurd_Zaza dataset too because their goal is solely a political agenda driven by state funds. Ironically they have no issue in being called Turks at all. Ask them what they would think about calling the dataset Zaza_Turkish and they wouldn't be half as upset.

[Leto]

I know but excluding it from one while adding it to another Kurdish group because of some individuals with weird political views is also not a good way.
As it would be a slap into the face of those who do not follow this political ideology.

I can totally understand why Lucas completely removed it.

To prove my point you could add two identical datasets call one just Zaza and the other Zaza_Kurd. And see how this group of people will still complain as it isn't really that they care about this identity and them being "represented" properly. They will complain why there is a Kurd_Zaza dataset too because their goal is solely a political agenda driven by state funds. Ironically they have no issue in being called Turks at all. Ask them what they would think about calling the dataset Zaza_Turkish and they wouldn't be half as upset.
Eurogenes K13 still has a Zaza pop :D

[Demhat]

Eurogenes K13 still has a Zaza pop :D

I would remove it completely.

Or call it Zaza_Turkish/Turkey and look if they will show the same energy. ;)

[CommonSense]

Serbs don't need more than let's say four averages. We aren't very numerous or particularly diverse as an ethnicity.

[Ayetooey]

My proposal for regional Serbian averages:
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
Serb_Serbia_west_and central
Serb_Serbia_south_and_east
Serb_Montenegro
Serb_BiH_Herzegovina
Serb_BiH_Bosnia
Serb_Croatia

That makes sense, the current splitting up of Croatia North vs South into different regions for example doesn't really make much sense to me..I think these regions should be made and put on the Serb dna thread for Serb users to use independently whether they're put officially on Vahaduo doesn't matter much probably don't want to overload the official page too much.

[Varda]

Serbs don't need more than let's say four averages. We aren't very numerous or particularly diverse as an ethnicity.

It's too little.

Croatians are less numerous than Serbs and they live on smaller territory and have 4 regional averages.
Serbs for centuries live from Kumanovo to Gorski Kotar, and from Banat to Dalmatia. That is most of former Yugoslavia.

[CommonSense]

It's too little.

Croatians are less numerous than Serbs and they live on smaller territory and have 4 regional averages.
Serbs for centuries live from Kumanovo to Gorski Kotar, and from Banat to Dalmatia. That is most of former Yugoslavia.

Most of us originated from the same place - the eastern areas of the Dinaric mountain range. Even southern Serbs aren't really different from the rest. We don't need a whole bunch of averages, although I agree the grouping should be done based on dialect rather than geography.

[Varda]

That makes sense, the current splitting up of Croatia North vs South into different regions for example doesn't really make much sense to me..I think these regions should be made and put on the Serb dna thread for Serb users to use independently whether they're put officially on Vahaduo doesn't matter much probably don't want to overload the official page too much.

Herzegovina today have quite less Serbs than for example city of Banja Luka, let alone whole Bosnia. But Herzegovina is very important region for the reconstruction of Serbian migrations in the past, and I thing Serb_Herzegovina should be separate cluster. On Serbian dna project is recognized importance of Herzegovina for the reconstruction of Serbian migrations and they tested 500-600 Herzegovinian Serbs on y dna for free. Only Kosovo and Herzegovinian Serbs are have been mass tested on y dna for free.

[vbnetkhio]

In Serb central are Lika, Dalmatian and west/central Serbia Serbs who are not connected geographically and historically. On the other hand Kordun/Banija Serbs are in Serb North together with Vojvodinian Serbs, again not connected groups.
Kordun/Banija Serbs are connected with Lika and little less with Dalmatian Serbs.
Serbs regionally (geographically, linguistically) are divided on the line southeast-northwest, not south-north.
Yes, the old averages were divided just by latitude, because it looked like only that was important for autosomal differences. For example, the old Vojvodina average from very few samples was identical to the Banija/Kordun average, so I merged them.

Now we know that's not true, so there has to be some change to the averages.


In Serb_Herzegovina cluster vbn included western part of Montenegro known as Old Herzegovina https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Old_Herzegovina
Most of the Old Herzegovina is part of Montenegro since 1878 and smaller part since 1912. I think samples from there should be in Serb_Montenegro cluster. People from Old Herzegovina are mixed with people from other parts of Montenegro for the long time, linguistically they are "montenegrized" and historically Old Herzegovina is tribal region like most of the rest of Montenegro.
In the last over 100 years Herzergovinian Serbs are only from part of Herzegovina which belong to BiH (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Herzegovina), they are not tribal neither montenegrized like people from Old (Montenegrin) Herzegovina.

I made it like that because my Herzegovina samples are mostly from the B&H/Montenegro border with ancestry from both sides of the border. So I thought it wouldn't be correct to merge them with Montenegrins.
But from the current samples I don't see a difference between East and Old Herzegovina, so I also made the current "Montenegrin" country average which is weighted from the Serb Herzegovina and Serb South Montenegro averages.


My proposal for regional Serbian averages:
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
Serb_Serbia_west_and central
Serb_Serbia_south_and_east
Serb_Montenegro
Serb_BiH_Herzegovina
Serb_BiH_Bosnia
Serb_Croatia

I agree. I thought of something like this too. Bulgaria is divided into 6 averages, and I think it describes their genetics well. Serbs are spread on a wider territory so around 8 averages will be ideal.
The only things I would change, since there is already a Montenegrin country average, as I explained, I would keep the "Serb Herzegovina" and "Serb South Montenegro" as they are.
I would also keep the West and Central Serbia separate, those are large regions with millions of people, and the sample size is good.

[Varda]

Most of us originated from the same place - the eastern areas of the Dinaric mountain range. Even southern Serbs aren't really different from the rest. We don't need a whole bunch of averages, although I agree the grouping should be done based on dialect rather than geography.

7 clusters is not too much.

Origin of most of the Serbs from east Herzegovina and Montenegro is just myth. Bosanska Krajina, Bosnia proper and western Serbia Serbs in mainstream are 100% of Herzegovinian and Montenegrin origin, and they are different on average then both Herzegovinian and Montenegrin Serbs (vbn averages posted on thread Serbian autosomal dna 2).

[Varda]

Yes, the old averages were divided just by latitude, because it looked like only that was important for autosomal differences. For example, the old Vojvodina average from very few samples was identical to the Banija/Kordun average, so I merged them.

Now we know that's not true, so there has to be some change to the averages.



I made it like that because my Herzegovina samples are mostly from the B&H/Montenegro border with ancestry from both sides of the border. So I thought it wouldn't be correct to merge them with Montenegrins.
But from the current samples I don't see a difference between East and Old Herzegovina, so I also made the current "Montenegrin" country average which is weighted from the Serb Herzegovina and Serb South Montenegro averages.



I agree. I thought of something like this too. Bulgaria is divided into 6 averages, and I think it describes their genetics well. Serbs are spread on a wider territory so around 8 averages will be ideal.
The only things I would change, since there is already a Montenegrin country average, as I explained, I would keep the "Serb Herzegovina" and "Serb South Montenegro" as they are.
I would also keep the West and Central Serbia separate, those are large regions with millions of people, and the sample size is good.

I agree. 7-8 averages is not too much for Serbs.

Bulgarians have 6 averages, and they are not more numerous than Serbs and they live on smaller territory than Serbs.

[vbnetkhio]

That makes sense, the current splitting up of Croatia North vs South into different regions for example doesn't really make much sense to me.

There actually is a difference. Lika Serbs with cca. 50 samples don't go above 34% Baltic, and in Banija there is already a couple of 36% Baltic samples.
This is already a significant difference since Serb averages are all 1-3% away from each other. That's why I made this divison.

But i'm sure all the other regions can also be divided into such sub-regions, I just don't have enough samples for that.
Serbs from Croatia just test more than the others, so we can already see these micro differencers.

So I agree, let's merge those 2 for now.

[Ayetooey]

There actually is a difference. Lika Serbs with cca. 50 samples don't go above 34% Baltic, and in Banija there is already a couple of 36% Baltic samples.
This is already a significant difference since Serb averages are all 1-3% away from each other. That's why I made this divison.

But i'm sure all the other regions can also be divided into such sub-regions, I just don't have enough samples for that.
Serbs from Croatia just test more than the others, so we can already see these micro differencers.

So I agree, let's merge those 2 for now.

36% is pretty high, even for Croats. Whats the highest baltic among Dalmatian Serbs? I have plenty of samples in my list I can post at some point. I think the issue for me was less the splitting of them up, which I find ok if there's going to be lots and lots of regions, but the fact they were split up and then regrouped separately with regions they have less historical overlap with in Serbia proper. But yeah, this seems like the right decision for the time being.

[Varda]

36% is pretty high, even for Croats. Whats the highest baltic among Dalmatian Serbs? I have plenty of samples in my list I can post at some point. I think the issue for me was less the splitting of them up, which I find ok if there's going to be lots and lots of regions, but the fact they were split up and then regrouped separately with regions they have less historical overlap with in Serbia proper. But yeah, this seems like the right decision for the time being.

35.28%

Look down https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6549936&viewfull=1#post6549936

[vbnetkhio]

36% is pretty high, even for Croats.
and the region average is 30%.
Croats can have up to 40% and their averages are mostly around 32-34.
That's how it is for all ethnicities, individual results always have a large +- range from the average.


Whats the highest baltic among Dalmatian Serbs? I have plenty of samples in my list I can post at some point.
It's your father with 31%. That would be great, I have only 9 Dalmatian Serb samples.[/QUOTE]

[vbnetkhio]

35.28%

Look down https://www.theapricity.com/forum/showthread.php?313828-Serbian-Autosomal-DNA&p=6549936&viewfull=1#post6549936

he's not confirmed. only his paternal line is Dalmatian Serb.

[Varda]

and the region average is 30%.
Croats can have up to 40% and their averages are mostly around 32-34.
That's how it is for all ethnicities, individual results always have a large +- range from the average.


It's your father with 31%. That would be great, I have only 9 Dalmatian Serb samples.

Dalmatian Serb (surname Tintor), quite similar Baltic and NA as Aye's father https://i.ibb.co/mzgC5Wd/Screenshot-20200419-160112-Chrome-2.jpg

He is former member of Poreklo, he is from village near Zadar (J2b-M205 is his y dna)

[vbnetkhio]

this is what Lucas should add:


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

[Varda]

this is what Lucas should add:


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

Montenegrin and Herzegovinian Serbs have the highest West_Med.

Make sense, i have seen some individual Serbian results from both regions with high WM score.

[Dušan]

this is what Lucas should add:


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

Nice, Bosnian Serb average seems good for me.

Distance to: Dušan
3.04023288 7.00% Italian_Sardinia + 93.00% Moldova_North
3.82996621 61.60% Albanian_Gheg + 38.40% Latvian
3.84834840 39.40% Latvian + 60.60% Torbesh_average
3.93755995 20.40% Latvian + 79.60% Moldova_South
3.99028896 49.80% Russian_average + 50.20% Torbesh_average
4.00603254 7.40% France_Corsica + 92.60% Moldova_North
4.00670988 27.40% Belarusian_Minsk + 72.60% Moldova_South
4.03016301 48.80% Belarusian_Minsk + 51.20% Torbesh_average
4.03047268 51.20% Albanian_Gheg + 48.80% Russian_average
4.03651702 21.20% Russian_Kargopol + 78.80% Serb_Herzegovina
4.03888369 44.60% Torbesh_average + 55.40% Ukrainian
4.05908393 52.20% Albanian_Gheg + 47.80% Belarusian_Minsk
4.06028307 50.80% Moldova_North + 49.20% Serb_Bosnia
4.06998874 67.20% Moldova_South + 32.80% Ukrainian
4.08007365 9.80% Mordovian + 90.20% Serb_Bosnia
4.08523568 23.40% Latvian + 76.60% Serb_Southern_Montenegro
4.08648932 20.80% Latvian + 79.20% Montenegrin
4.09555519 73.40% Moldova_North + 26.60% Serb_Herzegovina
4.09626619 22.80% Russian_average + 77.20% Serb_Herzegovina
4.09749061 22.40% Mordovian + 77.60% Serb_Herzegovina
4.10009557 9.00% Russian_Kargopol + 91.00% Serb_Bosnia
4.10590413 45.60% Albanian_Gheg + 54.40% Ukrainian
4.11188636 16.20% Latvian + 83.80% Serb_Herzegovina
4.11923759 6.60% Latvian + 93.40% Serb_Bosnia
4.12002967 90.40% Moldova_North + 9.60% Torbesh_average
4.12264094 59.00% Greek_Eastern-Macedonia + 41.00% Latvian
4.12657561 91.60% Bosniak_Bosnia + 8.40% Italian_Sardinia
4.12970377 22.60% Lithuanian + 77.40% Moldova_South
4.13703920 74.60% Bosniak_Sandzak + 25.40% Latvian
4.13954105 33.60% Latvian + 66.40% Macedonian_South
4.14019348 68.40% Moldova_North + 31.60% Serb
4.14132290 72.00% Moldova_South + 28.00% Russian_average
4.14214722 60.40% Albanian + 39.60% Latvian
4.14271858 23.20% Latvian + 76.80% Romania_Banat
4.14451692 9.60% Russian_average + 90.40% Serb_Bosnia
4.16377558 33.40% Latvian + 66.60% Macedonian
4.16451966 80.00% Moldova_North + 20.00% Montenegrin
4.16615570 9.60% Albanian_Gheg + 90.40% Moldova_North
4.17396994 79.60% Moldova_North + 20.40% Moldova_South
4.17652272 70.00% Moldova_North + 30.00% Serb_Serbia_West
4.17825465 7.20% Italian_Lombardy + 92.80% Moldova_North
4.18661969 95.80% Moldova_North + 4.20% Moroccan
4.19098396 73.80% Moldova_North + 26.20% Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina
4.19149126 50.60% Belarusian_Minsk + 49.40% Greek_Eastern-Macedonia
4.19347991 8.80% Albanian + 91.20% Moldova_North
4.19511257 82.60% Moldova_North + 17.40% Serb_Southern_Montenegro
4.19906756 6.40% Chuvash + 93.60% Serb_Bosnia
4.20157106 5.40% Mari + 94.60% Serb_Bosnia
4.20188987 8.80% Belarusian_Minsk + 91.20% Serb_Bosnia
4.21013424 71.40% Montenegrin + 28.60% Russian_average

[Andrea]

my k12b results, i don't know how to interpretate it, however can you show me where i'm on the european cluster map?
Admix Results (sorted):

# Population Percent
1 Atlantic_Med 33.7
2 Caucasus 28.33
3 North_European 21.48
4 Southwest_Asian 8.57
5 Gedrosia 4.54
6 Northwest_African 2.89
7 East_African 0.49

Single Population Sharing:

# Population (source) Distance
1 O_Italian (Dodecad) 2.6
2 C_Italian (Dodecad) 5.4
3 TSI30 (Metspalu) 5.66
4 Tuscan (HGDP) 5.91
5 N_Italian (Dodecad) 9.46
6 Greek (Dodecad) 10.12
7 North_Italian (HGDP) 11.3
8 Sicilian (Dodecad) 12.36
9 S_Italian_Sicilian (Dodecad) 12.6
10 Ashkenazi (Dodecad) 15.03
11 Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) 15.29
12 Bulgarians (Yunusbayev) 15.64
13 Bulgarian (Dodecad) 15.81
14 Romanians (Behar) 16.35
15 Sephardic_Jews (Behar) 19.52
16 Baleares (1000Genomes) 19.73
17 Morocco_Jews (Behar) 20.3
18 Galicia (1000Genomes) 20.84
19 Extremadura (1000Genomes) 21.4
20 Portuguese (Dodecad) 21.78

Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 68.4% Greek (Dodecad) + 31.6% Portuguese (Dodecad) @ 1.1
2 68% Greek (Dodecad) + 32% Extremadura (1000Genomes) @ 1.27
3 67.5% Greek (Dodecad) + 32.5% Galicia (1000Genomes) @ 1.45
4 73.8% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.2% British_Isles (Dodecad) @ 1.59
5 88.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 11.1% Swedish (Dodecad) @ 1.59
6 85.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 14.4% German (Dodecad) @ 1.72
7 91.8% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 8.2% FIN30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.72
8 92% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 8% Finnish (Dodecad) @ 1.74
9 84.7% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 15.3% Hungarians (Behar) @ 1.79
10 70.3% Greek (Dodecad) + 29.7% Castilla_Y_Leon (1000Genomes) @ 1.8
11 62.6% Ashkenazy_Jews (Behar) + 37.4% French (HGDP) @ 1.82
12 72.4% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.6% Dutch (Dodecad) @ 1.83
13 88.9% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 11.1% Norwegian (Dodecad) @ 1.83
14 73% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27% CEU30 (1000Genomes) @ 1.85
15 72.7% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 27.3% Kent (1000Genomes) @ 1.86
16 73.1% Sicilian (Dodecad) + 26.9% English (Dodecad) @ 1.87
17 63.1% Ashkenazi (Dodecad) + 36.9% French (HGDP) @ 1.9
18 89.6% C_Italian (Dodecad) + 10.4% Polish (Dodecad) @ 1.93
19 71.7% Greek (Dodecad) + 28.3% Spanish (Dodecad) @ 1.95
20 96.7% O_Italian (Dodecad) + 3.3% Moroccan (Dodecad) @ 2

[Leto]

my k12b results, i don't know how to interpretate it, however can you show me where i'm on the european cluster map?

Nice, you are very Italic :D


Andrea,4.54,0,2.89,0,33.7,21.48,0,0.49,8.57,0,28.3 3,0

Distance to: Andrea
2.51527334 Italian_Romagna
3.67971466 Italian_Lazio
3.76806900 Italian_Marche
4.97864439 Italian_Tuscany
6.40356932 Italian_Emilia
6.44371787 Albanian
6.84410695 Italian_Liguria
7.29431971 Greek_Thessaly
7.42635846 Greek_Thrace
7.46742258 Albanian_Kosovo
7.66689637 French_Corsica
8.62550288 Greek_Thessaloniki
8.79832939 Greek_Central
8.89040494 Greek_Peloponnese
9.10785375 Greek_Athens
9.12800088 Italian_Abruzzo
9.17897598 Italian_Veneto
9.42595884 Italian_Lombardy
9.63860467 Italian_Piedmont
10.09958910 Bulgarian_Thrace

Target: Andrea
Distance: 0.6714% / 0.67141277 | ADC: 0.25x RC
52.0 Albanian
33.2 French_Corsica
12.5 Italian_Liguria
2.3 Algerian

Target: Andrea
Distance: 1.8690% / 1.86902609 | ADC: 0.5x RC
78.6 Italian_Romagna
21.4 Albanian

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/2/2b/SPQR_sign.png/547px-SPQR_sign.png

[Andrea]

Ok, but where im in the italian cluster?
Perfect central, central-north, central-south?

[Ion Basescul]

I removed Zaza / Kurd-Zaza ref from Dodecad. Some peoople asked to add Kurd, now other on FB ask me to remove because they are not Kurds. I don't want to have such problematic ref anymore.

On K13, can you change the name Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely to Hungarian_Transylvania+Szekely, because that's the average of Szekelys and Hungarians? That's what differentiates it from the Szekely average.

[Lucas]

On K13, can you change the name Hungarian_Transylvania_Szekely to Hungarian_Transylvania+Szekely, because that's the average of Szekelys and Hungarians? That's what differentiates it from the Szekely average.

+ doesn't cause an error?

[Ion Basescul]

+ doesn't cause an error?

Nope, you have one already for Hungarian_Transdanubia+Budapest

[Dunai]

+ doesn't cause an error?

I already PMd you not only once, explaining you in very easy to understand language what you should edit, for the Source to have better and more accurate aesthetics, but after many weeks have passed by nothing was edited...

[Leto]

Umlauts and diacritics do not cause any error. Removing the ö in Alföld wasn't necessary. I love the diacritics, they look cool :D

[Lucas]

I already PMd you not only once, explaining you in very easy to understand language what you should edit, for the Source to have better and more accurate aesthetics, but after many weeks have passed by nothing was edited...

I thought + and umlaut could cause an error. Yes, sorry I edited now.

[vbnetkhio]

I thought + and umlaut could cause an error. Yes, sorry I edited now.

could you replace Serb north, central and south with these?


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

[Ion Basescul]

could you replace Serb north, central and south with these?


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

Might be a stupid question, but why not call Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina as Serb_Serbia_North to keep it consistent with the rest of the nomenclature for Serbian regions?

[vbnetkhio]

Might be a stupid question, but why not call Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina as Serb_Serbia_North to keep it consistent with the rest of the nomenclature for Serbian regions?

Vojvodina is just very rarely called "North Serbia" in real life, while West, Central, and South/Southeast are actually the most common terms used for those areas.

[Lucas]

could you replace Serb north, central and south with these?


Serb_Bosnia,24.92,31.27,16.57,9.03,14.29,1.28,0.52 ,0.30,0.84,0.39,0.47,0.07,0.05
Serb_Croatia,25.35,30.09,16.65,8.84,15.35,1.52,0.5 1,0.30,0.51,0.41,0.34,0.08,0.04
Serb_Herzegovina,24.24,28.42,17.69,9.12,16.53,1.92 ,0.17,0.27,0.57,0.44,0.4,0.16,0.07
Serb_Southern_Montenegro,24.06,25.44,18.66,10.11,1 7.52,2.21,0.27,0.26,0.74,0.37,0.28,0.02,0.05
Serb_Serbia_South,23.55,28.45,16.82,9.8,16.96,2.09 ,0.51,0.30,0.60,0.38,0.27,0.12,0.12
Serb_Serbia_Central,24.89,29.52,16.74,8.49,16.39,1 .75,0.27,0.23,0.73,0.53,0.24,0.07,0.09
Serb_Serbia_West,25.54,29.32,17.4,9.21,14.74,1.29, 0.57,0.25,0.85,0.48,0.2,0.06,0.1
Serb_Serbia_Vojvodina,24.72,28.71,17.21,9.07,16.01 ,1.5,0.65,0.5,0.54,0.53,0.3,0.07,0.15

Ok. I hope no one will be complaining again.

[Leto]

Luke, update the Udi once again ;) I added Azerbaijan for clarity.


Udi_Azerbaijan,21.23,0.80,0.26,0.28,9.12,9.04,0.94 ,0.17,11.48,0.34,46.19,0.14

[Leto]

New Macedonian averages for Dodecad K12b by Johnny. The old one is to be deleted.


Macedonian_East,4.65,0.39,0.52,0.23,29.07,30.58,0. 09,0,7.26,0.40,26.82,0
Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje,4.54,0.36,0.68,0.21,27.65,31.03,0.08,0.02,7 .28,0.21,27.89,0.05
Macedonian_Polog,5.61,0.27,1.13,0.11,28.51,30.98,0 .20,0.02,6.57,0.18,26.39,0
Macedonian_South,5.06,0.27,1.23,0.11,28.81,28.50,0 .23,0.02,8.19,0.17,27.46,0
Macedonian_Vardar,5.62,0.48,1.26,0.10,29.18,29.02, 0.29,0,6.83,0.21,27.02,0

[Lucas]

New Macedonian averages for Dodecad K12b by Johnny. The old one is to be deleted.


Macedonian_East,4.65,0.39,0.52,0.23,29.07,30.58,0. 09,0,7.26,0.40,26.82,0
Macedonian_Northeast&Skopje,4.54,0.36,0.68,0.21,27.65,31.03,0.08,0.02,7 .28,0.21,27.89,0.05
Macedonian_Polog,5.61,0.27,1.13,0.11,28.51,30.98,0 .20,0.02,6.57,0.18,26.39,0
Macedonian_South,5.06,0.27,1.23,0.11,28.81,28.50,0 .23,0.02,8.19,0.17,27.46,0
Macedonian_Vardar,5.62,0.48,1.26,0.10,29.18,29.02, 0.29,0,6.83,0.21,27.02,0


Yes, done:)

[Ion Basescul]

If there will be a K36 updated at some point:



Moldova_North,0.08,0.53,1.71,1.40,0.00,7.08,0.00,0 .02,9.85,0.00,15.72,2.88,11.58,6.67,3.28,8.46,0.01 ,9.68,0.00,2.09,0.21,3.74,5.22,5.10,0.03,0.05,0.00 ,0.02,0.05,0.00,0.23,0.03,1.91,0.00,0.81,1.55
Moldova_Centre,0.15,0.89,3.45,1.36,0.00,7.22,0.00, 0.14,9.57,0.05,14.42,2.61,10.04,5.59,2.91,6.59,0.0 4,10.97,0.07,2.33,0.21,5.56,4.87,4.34,0.00,0.03,0. 00,0.04,0.00,0.11,0.50,0.01,1.29,0.04,1.82,2.77
Moldova_South,0.05,1.80,2.35,0.72,0.02,4.13,0.00,0 .04,8.64,0.04,10.64,6.41,7.47,4.87,2.16,7.81,0.00, 17.88,0.07,3.90,0.24,2.78,4.52,5.70,0.00,0.08,0.00 ,0.01,0.02,0.03,0.66,0.06,0.84,0.00,2.29,3.78

[J. Ketch]

There's no Goth_Kowalewko average in G25 ancient averages, just the individuals. No.6 is a Central Euro-like outlier, so should separate that.

[Lucas]

There's no Goth_Kowalewko average in G25 ancient averages, just the individuals. No.6 is a Central Euro-like outlier, so should separate that.

Someone can make averages I don't have time today.

[Dr_Maul]

@Lucas Iranian Persian average for G25 from various regions (100 academic samples)

Iranian_Persian,0.08970392499999999,0.097693900000 00001,-0.06280559999999999,-0.024631974999999997,-0.044349725,0.0006190999999999998,0.00392685,-0.003929900000000001,-0.0285167,-0.015455449999999999,0.00009582499999999997,-0.0012259249999999999,0.0033568000000000005,-0.0029244250000000005,0.0051451249999999995,0.0112 21075,-0.00400015,0.0018699250000000001,0.002546625000000 0003,-0.008849175,-0.0011667,-0.003479575,-0.000019774999999999898,-0.003364275,0.0040295

[J. Ketch]

Someone can make averages I don't have time today.
Scaled average of the 10 Goth_Kowalewko samples


Goth_Kowalewko,0.1274818,0.1246054,0.0701822,0.059 3351,0.044439,0.0183789,0.0086484,0.0095074,0.0074 65,-0.0133761,-0.0077134,0.0007193,-0.0045642,-0.0034405,0.0174128,0.0088171,0.0008737,0.0064738,-0.0017094,0.0086292,0.0113301,-0.0025472,-0.0005177,0.0149417,0.0008621


Distance to: Goth_Kowalewko
0.01937870 Swedish
0.02405762 Danish
0.02685825 Norwegian
0.02746355 Icelandic
0.02933239 Dutch
0.03405292 Shetlandic
0.03422047 Orcadian
0.03470765 Scottish
0.03582557 Irish
0.03680296 English
0.03739593 Welsh
0.03777251 German
0.03904582 Czech
0.03994551 English_Cornwall
0.04040733 Afrikaner
0.04055496 German_East
0.04292982 French_Brittany
0.04599043 Slovakian
0.04781562 Austrian
0.04893128 Hungarian

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.7048% / 0.01704796 | R2P
76.6 Danish
23.4 Cossack_Kuban

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.5348% / 0.01534767 | ADC: 0.25x RC
50.8 Swedish
27.4 Danish
14.2 Cossack_Kuban
6.6 Norwegian
0.6 Ju_hoan_North
0.4 Koinanbe

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.5315% / 0.01531528
43.6 Swedish
24.6 Danish
15.8 Cossack_Kuban
12.0 Icelandic
3.0 Norwegian
0.6 Ju_hoan_North
0.4 Koinanbe

[Kyp]

For Dodeacadk12b:


please replace "Azerbaijani" and "Azerbaijani_Iran" with these two averages:

n=56

Azerbaijani_Republic,21.57,2.47,0.84,0.55,8.26,9.0 5,2.17,0.27,11.90,3.04,39.73,0.12

n=40

Azerbaijani_Iran,22.15,2.87,0.79,1.01,7.82,8.26,2. 88,0.29,12.28,3.02,38.52,0.12

[Leto]

@Lucas, I've renamed Kaitag and Kubachi for Dodecad, those are Dargin subgroups, not separate ethnicities.


Dargin_Kaitag,25.44,2.46,0.12,0.11,4.91,26.98,0.79 ,0.05,2.57,0.07,36.46,0.03
Dargin_Kubachi,27.22,1.64,0.05,0.49,4.48,25.48,0.3 2,0.02,1.41,0.30,38.56,0.04

Please replace them. Even if you're busy, that'll take only a few seconds.

Also replace Tabasaran too, this is from Balanovsky


Tabasaran,25.94,2.18,0,0.18,5.97,23.13,0.8,0,3.3,0 .74,37.58,0.17

[Lucas]

@Lucas Iranian Persian average for G25 from various regions (100 academic samples)

Iranian_Persian,0.08970392499999999,0.097693900000 00001,-0.06280559999999999,-0.024631974999999997,-0.044349725,0.0006190999999999998,0.00392685,-0.003929900000000001,-0.0285167,-0.015455449999999999,0.00009582499999999997,-0.0012259249999999999,0.0033568000000000005,-0.0029244250000000005,0.0051451249999999995,0.0112 21075,-0.00400015,0.0018699250000000001,0.002546625000000 0003,-0.008849175,-0.0011667,-0.003479575,-0.000019774999999999898,-0.003364275,0.0040295

ofc scaled?

[Lucas]

Scaled average of the 10 Goth_Kowalewko samples


Goth_Kowalewko,0.1274818,0.1246054,0.0701822,0.059 3351,0.044439,0.0183789,0.0086484,0.0095074,0.0074 65,-0.0133761,-0.0077134,0.0007193,-0.0045642,-0.0034405,0.0174128,0.0088171,0.0008737,0.0064738,-0.0017094,0.0086292,0.0113301,-0.0025472,-0.0005177,0.0149417,0.0008621


Distance to: Goth_Kowalewko
0.01937870 Swedish
0.02405762 Danish
0.02685825 Norwegian
0.02746355 Icelandic
0.02933239 Dutch
0.03405292 Shetlandic
0.03422047 Orcadian
0.03470765 Scottish
0.03582557 Irish
0.03680296 English
0.03739593 Welsh
0.03777251 German
0.03904582 Czech
0.03994551 English_Cornwall
0.04040733 Afrikaner
0.04055496 German_East
0.04292982 French_Brittany
0.04599043 Slovakian
0.04781562 Austrian
0.04893128 Hungarian

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.7048% / 0.01704796 | R2P
76.6 Danish
23.4 Cossack_Kuban

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.5348% / 0.01534767 | ADC: 0.25x RC
50.8 Swedish
27.4 Danish
14.2 Cossack_Kuban
6.6 Norwegian
0.6 Ju_hoan_North
0.4 Koinanbe

Target: Goth_Kowalewko
Distance: 1.5315% / 0.01531528
43.6 Swedish
24.6 Danish
15.8 Cossack_Kuban
12.0 Icelandic
3.0 Norwegian
0.6 Ju_hoan_North
0.4 Koinanbe
added

[Lucas]

For Dodeacadk12b:


please replace "Azerbaijani" and "Azerbaijani_Iran" with these two averages:

n=56

Azerbaijani_Republic,21.57,2.47,0.84,0.55,8.26,9.0 5,2.17,0.27,11.90,3.04,39.73,0.12

n=40

Azerbaijani_Iran,22.15,2.87,0.79,1.01,7.82,8.26,2. 88,0.29,12.28,3.02,38.52,0.12

added

[Lucas]

@Lucas, I've renamed Kaitag and Kubachi for Dodecad, those are Dargin subgroups, not separate ethnicities.


Dargin_Kaitag,25.44,2.46,0.12,0.11,4.91,26.98,0.79 ,0.05,2.57,0.07,36.46,0.03
Dargin_Kubachi,27.22,1.64,0.05,0.49,4.48,25.48,0.3 2,0.02,1.41,0.30,38.56,0.04

Please replace them. Even if you're busy, that'll take only a few seconds.

Also replace Tabasaran too, this is from Balanovsky


Tabasaran,25.94,2.18,0,0.18,5.97,23.13,0.8,0,3.3,0 .74,37.58,0.17


fixed

[mrt19]

I tried it with Eurogenes K13
Should i read it in the same way like with distance? Can someone Intepret my results?
I used Single mode

Target: test
Distance: 2.8348% / 2.83475667 | ADC: 0.25x RC
73.9 Turk_Central_Black_Sea
16.0 Kabardin
5.7 Moroccan
4.4 Italian_Sardinia

[Dr_Maul]

ofc scaled?

yes

[Dr_Maul]

ofc scaled?

Here is a properly rounded version (without all the 0s)
Iranian_Persian1,0.089703925,0.0976939,-0.0628055,-0.024631975,-0.044349725,0.0006191,0.00392685,-0.0039299,-0.0285167,-0.01545545,0.0000958245,-0.001225925,0.0033568,-0.002924425,0.005145125,0.011221075,-0.00400015,0.001869925,0.002546625,-0.008849175,-0.0011667,-0.003479575,-0.000019775,-0.003364275,0.0040295

Edit: also if possible maybe remove Iranian_Fars ( not much use for it in this case)

[Kyp]

Edit: also if possible maybe remove Iranian_Fars ( not much use for it in this case)


NO! It's for Fars Province. No need for deleting.

[Dr_Maul]

NO! It's for Fars Province. No need for deleting.

Alright, but having it for just that province seems kinda awkward I guess (instead of deleting I guess we should add other provincial averages)

[Leto]

Please delete Yakut and Dolgan from Dodecad K12b as both are calculator-affected. Add this instead (Sakha is the same as Yakut, their original ethnonym)


Sakha_Yakutia,1.57,65.57,0.02,1.30,0.34,3.01,0.69, 0.09,0.30,25.98,1.13,0

Most academic Yakut samples that you can find on Gedmatch are from the same source(s) i.e. calculator-affected. I used only non-academics that I managed to find.

[Jana]

@Lucas, please delete Croat_Bosnia from K12b. It's not very representative for BiH Croats and way too much central Euro shifted, more so than regular Croat average.
Also please rename Kaykavian Croat on K12b to North_Croat, Kajkavian is a dialect nobody except locals heard about.

[Lucas]

@Lucas, please delete Croat_Bosnia from K12b. It's not very representative for BiH Croats and way too much central Euro shifted, more so than regular Croat average.
Also please rename Kaykavian Croat on K12b to North_Croat, Kajkavian is a dialect nobody except locals heard about.

Wait. K13 yes? In DK12b it is only Croat ref.

And in K13 there isn't Croat Bosnia (nor in Dodecad). I'm lost a little...

[Jana]

Wait. K13 yes? In DK12b it is only Croat ref.

And in K13 there isn't Croat Bosnia (nor in Dodecad). I'm lost a little...

Oh sorry! I meant K15.

[Lucas]

Oh sorry! I meant K15.

Changed, Kaykavian put to the bin where is its place. North replacing it:)

[Aren]

Here is a properly rounded version (without all the 0s)
Iranian_Persian1,0.089703925,0.0976939,-0.0628055,-0.024631975,-0.044349725,0.0006191,0.00392685,-0.0039299,-0.0285167,-0.01545545,0.0000958245,-0.001225925,0.0033568,-0.002924425,0.005145125,0.011221075,-0.00400015,0.001869925,0.002546625,-0.008849175,-0.0011667,-0.003479575,-0.000019775,-0.003364275,0.0040295

Edit: also if possible maybe remove Iranian_Fars ( not much use for it in this case)

Thank you. Finally we get a real Persian average.

A simple model. Very high proto-Iranian.

Target: Iranian_Persian
Distance: 0.8880% / 0.00887984
33.0 TKM_IA
29.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
28.6 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
6.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA

[Dr_Maul]

Thank you. Finally we get a real Persian average.

A simple model. Very high proto-Iranian.

Target: Iranian_Persian
Distance: 0.8880% / 0.00887984
33.0 TKM_IA
29.8 IRN_Seh_Gabi_C
28.6 SYR_Ebla_EMBA
6.0 IRN_Shahr_I_Sokhta_BA2
2.6 MNG_Khovsgol_BA


While it’s quite close to Iranian_Fars, it was good to have a well rounded average with 100 samples and non outliers. As well as from multiple regions


Also @Lucas please update the average with the new one which is properly rounded and is not unnecessarily long

[Lucas]

While it’s quite close to Iranian_Fars, it was good to have a well rounded average with 100 samples and non outliers. As well as from multiple regions


Also @Lucas please update the average with the new one which is properly rounded and is not unnecessarily long

Yes, done.

[Lucas]

While it’s quite close to Iranian_Fars, it was good to have a well rounded average with 100 samples and non outliers. As well as from multiple regions


Also @Lucas please update the average with the new one which is properly rounded and is not unnecessarily long

Yes, done.

[Dr_Maul]

Yes, done.

Sorry but I seem to have included a '1' in the name of it, so pls remove that as well

[Leto]

@Lucas
Some minor orthographic improvement (Eu K13):


French_Alsace,40.65,22.72,16.81,6.48,9.58,1.60,0.3 9,0.47,0.25,0.36,0.27,0.16,0.26
French_Central,42.40,18.28,20.55,4.81,9.80,1.59,0. 49,0.26,0.36,0.46,0.37,0.38,0.24
French_Corsica,26.74,9.01,28.48,6.84,23.99,3.65,0. 18,0.18,0.21,0.17,0.45,0.1,0
French_Northeast,43.27,20.59,17.19,6.01,8.41,1.49, 0.81,0.36,0.38,0.48,0.30,0.27,0.43
French_Northwest,48.53,22.11,15.45,5.52,4.38,1.00, 1.19,0.25,0.31,0.59,0.29,0.22,0.17
French_Provence,35.19,14.10,22.05,6.40,17.59,2.34, 0.36,0.26,0.26,0.40,0.37,0.42,0.24
French_South,41.77,14.33,26.39,2.70,10.79,1.43,0.5 5,0.18,0.26,0.58,0.53,0.33,0.17
French_Southwest,48.61,8.24,32.74,0.95,5.49,1.52,0 .92,0.35,0.26,0.27,0.31,0.20,0.14

[Lucas]

Sorry but I seem to have included a '1' in the name of it, so pls remove that as well

Yes, done.

[J. Ketch]

Graham, do you have any Scottish regional averages you can add yet? Around 20 kits should be enough, can always update them later.

[Dr_Maul]

More sorted averages instead of just "_B". Thankfully they included the information in the individual naming scheme.



Iran_Arab,0.0515455559649,0.1127236804686,-0.0645954091928,-0.0507109847867,-0.0327972758751,-0.0108768538798,-0.0026521420615,-0.0022745707462,-0.002103713654,-0.0075759977272,0.0025517135201,-0.00618728385,0.014674709883,0.0013958567241,0.002 0164279665,0.01013371124,-0.0133364245705,0.0011945710701,0.000844142603,-0.002626284926,0.000516999844,0.002897141987,-0.0002288570742,-0.0034427132529,0.0015739995278
Iran_Turkmen,0.08443591754,-0.011817092091,-0.0223528204172,-0.0103947283122,-0.0419098223728,-0.0033213639685,0.00583236422,0.0010068182825,-0.021567911247,-0.0102880919379,-0.0099351828117,0.0005858182404,0.001905363827,-0.003741000375,0.00381245493,0.0066295461175,0.000 35554549,0.0011286364765,0.001508272879,-0.00301272758,-0.0056491823831,-0.0024952729768,-0.002903,-0.0021031820285,0.000990545
Iran_Baloch,0.0736056593,0.0521304392314,-0.09935032339,0.024906886398,-0.0700643263269,0.0266497751128,0.0051961105914,0. 0006667,-0.0220885533467,-0.0195801091531,-0.0030852219137,-0.0022314442213,0.00736688815,-0.0040673329266,0.0162562205966,0.022363219985,-0.0181089981891,0.003364332996,0.0061591104952,-0.026526552902,-0.000859555469,-0.014742109636,-0.0018759998123,-0.0166019983398,0.012746665392
Iraqi_Arab,0.0407233,0.1170114,-0.0605489,-0.0604189,-0.0272698,-0.0185153,-0.0044651,-0.0036023,0.0064198,-0.005376,0.0054671,-0.0103658,0.0205731,-0.0005887,0.0016137,0.0116457,-0.0084388,0.0027942,0.0011103,0.0016535,0.0032236, 0.0024524,-0.0030949,0.0009371,-0.0013505
Syrian_Kurd,0.0942835188567,0.1067998546933,-0.05084851017,-0.0347763402886,-0.035647840463,-0.007855334905,0.0013708336075,-0.0060381678743,-0.0216453376624,-0.01251366917,-0.000108333355,-0.001773333688,0.0031713339676,-0.0035555007111,-0.0020131670694,0.0117561690179,0.00319466731,0.00 07180001436,0.0038968341127,-0.0101508353635,0.0007486668164,-0.003421167351,-0.00061633345,-0.0016065003,0.0036921674051
Syrian_West,0.0786518,0.13293275,-0.0495347,-0.0658597,-0.01586445,-0.02165585,-0.00254975,-0.0043382,-0.00287355,0.002287,0.00376745,-0.00451855,0.0097074,-0.00197495,-0.0040784,0.00872445,0.0014474,0.0010262,0.0015084 ,-0.00095665,-0.0008485,0.00055635,-0.0021692,0.00116285,0.00046695
Syrian_East,0.038808199287,0.11673750231,-0.052150281183,-0.065753505675,-0.018538171938,-0.021195740709,-0.00324523485,-0.00376909147,0.008492562936,-0.005041804482,0.004894758,-0.00964856178,0.018320553108,0.00030814255,-0.00004528567,0.011169084069,-0.0049731856,0.001351331982,0.00210095029,0.003346 758559,0.002602521207,0.00478713807,-0.002300569128,0.002633711652,-0.00089518958

[Leto]

Please add this new Croatian average to Dodecad. But do not delete the old one (for now)


Croat2,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3 .41,0.14,17.70,0

[Jana]

^^^^Yes, please add it Lucas. I'd just like to have it named differently because 1 and 2 will confuse people.

Average posted by Leto above should be named just Croat (it plots in between north/south thus representative for average), and old one renamed to Croat_South!
(we don't know exact origin of samples it was made of, but it works very well for Croats with origins south of Sava river and looks genetically southern)

Thanks.

[Leto]

^^^^Yes, please add it Lucas. I'd just like to have it named differently because 1 and 2 will confuse people.

Average posted by Leto above should be named just Croat (it plots in between north/south thus representative for average), and old one renamed to Croat_South!
(we don't know exact origin of samples it was made of, but it works very well for Croats with origins south of Sava river and looks genetically southern)

Thanks.
Are those Croats south of the Sava still more northern than an average Serb?

[Jana]

Are those Croats south of the Sava still more northern than an average Serb?

Yes, but they are very similar to Bosniaks and western Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia (and probably western Serbia). Difference between these is very small.

[Leto]

Yes, but they are very similar to Bosniaks and western Serbs from Croatia and Bosnia (and probably western Serbia). Difference between these is very small.
Okay, let it be Croat_South then.

[vbnetkhio]

Are those Croats south of the Sava still more northern than an average Serb?

the averages have been posted a hundred times, you can check it by yoursef :rolleyes:

just kidding, basically, majority of south Croats is 27/32 NA/Baltic, and Serbs are mostly around 24/29.

Bosniaks from central Bosnia are 25/35,and those from others part of Bosnia are more like the Serbs.

[Lucas]

More sorted averages instead of just "_B". Thankfully they included the information in the individual naming scheme.



Iran_Arab,0.0515455559649,0.1127236804686,-0.0645954091928,-0.0507109847867,-0.0327972758751,-0.0108768538798,-0.0026521420615,-0.0022745707462,-0.002103713654,-0.0075759977272,0.0025517135201,-0.00618728385,0.014674709883,0.0013958567241,0.002 0164279665,0.01013371124,-0.0133364245705,0.0011945710701,0.000844142603,-0.002626284926,0.000516999844,0.002897141987,-0.0002288570742,-0.0034427132529,0.0015739995278
Iran_Turkmen,0.08443591754,-0.011817092091,-0.0223528204172,-0.0103947283122,-0.0419098223728,-0.0033213639685,0.00583236422,0.0010068182825,-0.021567911247,-0.0102880919379,-0.0099351828117,0.0005858182404,0.001905363827,-0.003741000375,0.00381245493,0.0066295461175,0.000 35554549,0.0011286364765,0.001508272879,-0.00301272758,-0.0056491823831,-0.0024952729768,-0.002903,-0.0021031820285,0.000990545
Iran_Baloch,0.0736056593,0.0521304392314,-0.09935032339,0.024906886398,-0.0700643263269,0.0266497751128,0.0051961105914,0. 0006667,-0.0220885533467,-0.0195801091531,-0.0030852219137,-0.0022314442213,0.00736688815,-0.0040673329266,0.0162562205966,0.022363219985,-0.0181089981891,0.003364332996,0.0061591104952,-0.026526552902,-0.000859555469,-0.014742109636,-0.0018759998123,-0.0166019983398,0.012746665392
Iraqi_Arab,0.0407233,0.1170114,-0.0605489,-0.0604189,-0.0272698,-0.0185153,-0.0044651,-0.0036023,0.0064198,-0.005376,0.0054671,-0.0103658,0.0205731,-0.0005887,0.0016137,0.0116457,-0.0084388,0.0027942,0.0011103,0.0016535,0.0032236, 0.0024524,-0.0030949,0.0009371,-0.0013505
Syrian_Kurd,0.0942835188567,0.1067998546933,-0.05084851017,-0.0347763402886,-0.035647840463,-0.007855334905,0.0013708336075,-0.0060381678743,-0.0216453376624,-0.01251366917,-0.000108333355,-0.001773333688,0.0031713339676,-0.0035555007111,-0.0020131670694,0.0117561690179,0.00319466731,0.00 07180001436,0.0038968341127,-0.0101508353635,0.0007486668164,-0.003421167351,-0.00061633345,-0.0016065003,0.0036921674051
Syrian_West,0.0786518,0.13293275,-0.0495347,-0.0658597,-0.01586445,-0.02165585,-0.00254975,-0.0043382,-0.00287355,0.002287,0.00376745,-0.00451855,0.0097074,-0.00197495,-0.0040784,0.00872445,0.0014474,0.0010262,0.0015084 ,-0.00095665,-0.0008485,0.00055635,-0.0021692,0.00116285,0.00046695
Syrian_East,0.038808199287,0.11673750231,-0.052150281183,-0.065753505675,-0.018538171938,-0.021195740709,-0.00324523485,-0.00376909147,0.008492562936,-0.005041804482,0.004894758,-0.00964856178,0.018320553108,0.00030814255,-0.00004528567,0.011169084069,-0.0049731856,0.001351331982,0.00210095029,0.003346 758559,0.002602521207,0.00478713807,-0.002300569128,0.002633711652,-0.00089518958


Done, Syrian is estimation based on academic or private samples?

[Lucas]

Please add this new Croatian average to Dodecad. But do not delete the old one (for now)


Croat2,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3 .41,0.14,17.70,0

yes

[Leto]

yes
But you added them with the wrong names. It should be like this


Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0
Croat_South,4.59,0.41,0.4,0.31,27.14,43.51,0.31,0. 04,4.04,0.11,19.1,0.03


Also you haven't changed the Udi


Udi_Azerbaijan,21.35,0.53,0.31,0.23,9.44,8.73,0.79 ,0.2,11.62,0.4,46.24,0.16

[Dr_Maul]

Done, Syrian is estimation based on academic or private samples?

Academic, same ones in the Syrian_B average but ordered based on their origins. Also small correction, pls change the Iran_ ones to Iranian, thats my fault for not doing it in the OP.

[Ajeje Brazorf]

Please add this average for Eurogenes K15


Polish_Jew,9.927,13.02,6.126,4.734,13.929,14.591,2 5.05,8.375,0.206,1.044,0.549,0.167,0.269,1.838,0.1 72

[Lucas]

Please add this average for Eurogenes K15


Polish_Jew,9.927,13.02,6.126,4.734,13.929,14.591,2 5.05,8.375,0.206,1.044,0.549,0.167,0.269,1.838,0.1 72

ok

[Lucas]

But you added them with the wrong names. It should be like this


Croat,4.68,0.30,0.43,0.55,27.32,45.25,0.17,0.06,3. 41,0.14,17.70,0
Croat_South,4.59,0.41,0.4,0.31,27.14,43.51,0.31,0. 04,4.04,0.11,19.1,0.03


Also you haven't changed the Udi


Udi_Azerbaijan,21.35,0.53,0.31,0.23,9.44,8.73,0.79 ,0.2,11.62,0.4,46.24,0.16


ok

[Dr_Maul]

ok

@Lucas pls change the Iran_ ones to Iranian, thats my fault for not doing it in the OP.

[Leto]

Please replace the Yaghnobi reference for Eu K13. I don't know who made the previous one (Kyp or Mingle) but it doesn't even add up to 100 pct. Absolutely careless


Yaghnobi_Tajikistan,11.33,16.37,1.51,39.59,10.16,0 .93,12.83,0.64,4.02,1.89,0.05,0.44,0.23


I would also add back the original Tajik reference, it's not bad at all, probably the Yunusbayev data


Tajik_Tajikistan,10.93,10.43,1.29,35.25,7.16,1.38, 17.84,4.62,9.04,1.48,0.05,0.23,0.31

[J. Ketch]

Polish Jews are causing a problem in K13 updated (15 values).

Updated English Southwest (32, incl. Cornwall), and Cornish (10).

K13

Cornish,50.30,23.15,14.04,5.55,3.93,0.54,0.74,0.06 ,0.16,0.80,0.56,0.03,0.08
English_Southwest,49.94,23.18,14.24,5.56,3.68,0.66 ,0.99,0.09,0.26,0.60,0.48,0.13,0.13

K15

Cornish,33.87,30.57,10.15,8.99,9.90,3.54,1.24,0.30 ,0.42,0.02,0.03,0.48,0.35,0.03,0.05
English_Southwest,36.27,28.18,9.87,8.69,10.24,3.27 ,1.29,0.47,0.71,0.04,0.08,0.34,0.29,0.10,0.08

[Lucas]

Polish Jews are causing a problem in K13 updated (15 values).

Updated English Southwest (32, incl. Cornwall), and Cornish (10).

K13

Cornish,50.30,23.15,14.04,5.55,3.93,0.54,0.74,0.06 ,0.16,0.80,0.56,0.03,0.08
English_Southwest,49.94,23.18,14.24,5.56,3.68,0.66 ,0.99,0.09,0.26,0.60,0.48,0.13,0.13

K15

Cornish,33.87,30.57,10.15,8.99,9.90,3.54,1.24,0.30 ,0.42,0.02,0.03,0.48,0.35,0.03,0.05
English_Southwest,36.27,28.18,9.87,8.69,10.24,3.27 ,1.29,0.47,0.71,0.04,0.08,0.34,0.29,0.10,0.08

updated

[Ion Basescul]

Zoomed in on Southeast Euro averages in K13

https://i.imgur.com/uo69n0D.png

[Ion Basescul]

Please add these HarrapaWorld averages



Moldova_North,0.28,7.97,18.24,43.97,0.34,1.42,0.37 ,0.26,0.27,0.33,22.19,4.24,0.03,0.02,0.05,0.00
Moldova_Centre,0.76,7.69,19.65,41.28,0.16,1.13,0.5 8,0.18,0.42,0.51,22.96,4.52,0.04,0.01,0.06,0.05
Moldova_South,0.40,8.27,20.66,37.94,0.14,1.70,0.43 ,0.35,0.24,0.22,23.86,5.43,0.14,0.14,0.07,0.00

[Dr_Maul]

@Lucas pls change the Iran_ ones to Iranian, thats my fault for not doing it in the OP.

@Lucas plx fix

[WeirdLookingFellow]

Zoomed in on Southeast Euro averages in K13

https://i.imgur.com/uo69n0D.png

Is there any particular way we can somehow highlight the fact that Romanians have more Siberian+E. Asian+Amerindian ? Think you'd need to adjust the weights on those Ks , not sure if that's possible with whatever tools I know of.

[J. Ketch]

Is there any particular way we can somehow highlight the fact that Romanians have more Siberian+E. Asian+Amerindian ? Think you'd need to adjust the weights on those Ks , not sure if that's possible with whatever tools I know of.
On a PCA? Non-European shift becomes more evident when you include non-Europeans on it.