English/Irish are too southern shifted on EUTest? [Archive] - The Apricity Forum: A European Cultural Community

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RyoHazuki

12-18-2019, 12:28 AM

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 12:50 AM

"SW English, French Gascon, Welsh, a bit German, distant East Med."

I don't think you know what you are talking about since the southern English have continental French and German admixture (and I don't mean just Saxon ) and your levantine or East med is why you score 4.5 rather than 1.X or below 1.

RyoHazuki

12-18-2019, 01:00 AM

"SW English, French Gascon, Welsh, a bit German, distant East Med."

I don't think you know what you are talking about since Southern English have continental French and German admixture (and I don't mean just Saxon ) and your levantine or East med is why you score 4.5 rather than 1.X or below 1.

You draw some false conclusions.
1. English people don't have ancestry from Southern France, their affinity is with the Northern (Oïl) speaking people and Germany.
2. Gascons are very much closer to Basques (Iberians) than Germans or Northern French, English have no DNA from that area.
4. Both my German and Eastern Mediterranean heritage should be no more than 1/32.
5. I'm not representative of average English people, the average is not 1/4 Southern French like I am. I still fit but as an outlier.
If this calculator claims I'm the average Englishman, then its samples are too southern and the actual British people should not be getting more Scandinavian.

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:09 AM

You draw some false conclusions.
1. English people don't have ancestry from Southern France, their affinity is with the Northern (Oïl) speaking people and Germany. p

Alright, the Welsh were conquered by the English and some parts of Wales are more are more Anglo-Saxon than others and you did not say where your German ancestry was from so the German and southern French etc... could come out to more d'oil.

2. Gascons are very much closer to Basques (Iberians) than Germans or Northern French, English have no DNA from that area.

4. My Eastern Mediterranean heritage should be no more than 1/32.

Alright , then the Eastern mediterenean heritage and the Iberian is making your @ a 4.X distance rather than a hyer close 1.x or 0.x distance.

5. I'm not representative of average English people, the average is not 1/4 Southern French like I am. I still fit but as an outlier.

SouthEast English people are a quarter German and 45% French and this says nothing of 'northern French d'oil' :

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/19/26C86A2700000578-3000998-The_study_found_that_Britain_can_be_divided_into_1 7_distinct_gen-a-4_1426776373068.jpg

If this calculator claims I'm the average Englishman, then its samples are too southern and the actual British people should not be getting more Scandinavian.

It does not claim you are the average Englishman. Anything below an Fst distance of 5 you can pass as a native of that population but obviously an Fst distance of like 1.X or 0.x is more 'true English' and norids are a minority population of England and Scotland.

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:10 AM

You draw some false conclusions.
1. English people don't have ancestry from Southern France, their affinity is with the Northern (Oïl) speaking people and Germany.
2. Gascons are very much closer to Basques (Iberians) than Germans or Northern French, English have no DNA from that area.
4. Both my German and Eastern Mediterranean heritage should be no more than 1/32.
5. I'm not representative of average English people, the average is not 1/4 Southern French like I am. I still fit but as an outlier.
If this calculator claims I'm the average Englishman, then its samples are too southern and the actual British people should not be getting more Scandinavian.

Honestly, I'm not trying to be an asshole I just don't think you know what you are talking about which is not surprising since you are American. I'm American but not the average American mentally.

J. Ketch

12-18-2019, 01:14 AM

EUtest estimates I am 100% Northern European and 100% English when that is most definitely not the case in any other test I take. Actual "pure blooded" British/Irish people will consequently get their results closer to Scandinavians. I know I fit within the English population, but as a Southern shifted outlier from my Southwestern influence. But that is not the average Englishman and my admix does not reflect the average Englishman.

My EUtest:
Using 1 population approximation:
1 English @ 4.557434
2 Orcadian @ 5.466537
3 IE @ 5.501426
4 NL @ 5.538352
5 Cornish @ 6.018769
6 DK @ 6.677701
7 West_&_Central_German @ 6.962599
8 Scottish @ 7.480654
9 NO @ 8.444295
10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 9.684866
11 FR @ 13.447596
12 North_Swedish @ 14.018867
13 AT @ 15.642137
14 HU @ 21.432430
15 PT @ 21.447546
16 ES @ 21.925041
17 Serbian @ 23.885811
18 South_Finnish @ 23.987663
19 North_Italian @ 26.008394
20 PL @ 27.268539

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% English +50% IE @ 4.108747

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% English +25% English +25% IE @ 4.077574

Using 4 populations approximation:
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 English + English + English + IE @ 4.077574
2 English + English + IE + IE @ 4.108747
3 English + English + IE + NL @ 4.174938
4 English + IE + IE + NL @ 4.187767
5 English + English + IE + Orcadian @ 4.245919
6 DK + English + English + IE @ 4.255175
7 English + IE + IE + West_&_Central_German @ 4.322528
8 English + English + English + Orcadian @ 4.324914
9 DK + English + IE + IE @ 4.338577
10 English + IE + NL + Orcadian @ 4.350008
Probably. The English samples in Eurogenes calculators seem to be mostly from the South, and disproportionately from the South West, which is the most southern shifted part of the British Isles.

My EUTest

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.3% DK + 44.7% Scottish @ 2.59
2 51.5% IE + 48.5% DK @ 2.63
3 55.6% Orcadian + 44.4% DK @ 2.96
4 89.3% DK + 10.7% French_Basque @ 2.99
5 66.9% IE + 33.1% NO @ 3.15
6 58.8% Scottish + 41.2% NO @ 3.28
7 61.1% DK + 38.9% Cornish @ 3.36
8 83% NO + 17% French_Basque @ 3.36
9 74.5% Orcadian + 25.5% NO @ 3.38
10 76.2% IE + 23.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.47
11 84.1% IE + 15.9% North_Swedish @ 3.56
12 86% Orcadian + 14% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.63
13 90.7% Orcadian + 9.3% North_Swedish @ 3.64
14 56.6% Cornish + 43.4% NO @ 3.64
15 66.5% IE + 33.5% English @ 3.67
16 80.1% Orcadian + 19.9% English @ 3.69
17 97.5% Orcadian + 2.5% South_Finnish @ 3.75
18 68.3% Scottish + 31.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.77
19 98.6% Orcadian + 1.4% East_Finnish @ 3.77
20 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% IE @ 3.79

My mother's (English Midlands)

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% NL + 34.5% IE @ 2.41
2 77.2% English + 22.8% NO @ 2.56
3 71.6% English + 28.4% IE @ 2.62
4 95.4% English + 4.6% Erzya @ 2.62
5 95.9% English + 4.1% Udmurt @ 2.62
6 94.9% English + 5.1% East_Russian @ 2.63
7 97.5% English + 2.5% Kalash @ 2.65
8 69.5% English + 30.5% DK @ 2.65
9 96% English + 4% Komi @ 2.65
10 65.2% NL + 34.8% Orcadian @ 2.66
11 95.6% English + 4.4% North_Russian @ 2.67
12 89% English + 11% North_Swedish @ 2.69
13 52.1% DK + 47.9% Cornish @ 2.72
14 84% English + 16% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.72
15 95.3% English + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 2.74
16 60.6% Cornish + 39.4% NO @ 2.75
17 72.2% English + 27.8% Orcadian @ 2.75
18 56.4% English + 43.6% NL @ 2.76
19 98% English + 2% Burusho @ 2.76
20 94.6% English + 5.4% South_Finnish @ 2.77

My father's from Ireland, but he's unusually Scandinavian shifted in every calculator.

1 60.2% Scottish + 39.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 0.78
2 56.5% Scottish + 43.5% NO @ 1.04
3 72.2% Scottish + 27.8% North_Swedish @ 1.54
4 71.9% Orcadian + 28.1% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.76
5 68.9% Orcadian + 31.1% NO @ 1.85
6 81.6% Orcadian + 18.4% North_Swedish @ 1.87
7 62.3% IE + 37.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.94
8 92.2% Orcadian + 7.8% EE @ 2
9 90.6% Orcadian + 9.4% South_Finnish @ 2.05
10 55.4% Scottish + 44.6% DK @ 2.05
11 84.8% Scottish + 15.2% South_Finnish @ 2.11
12 58.4% IE + 41.6% NO @ 2.12
13 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% LIT @ 2.16
14 93.2% Orcadian + 6.8% East_Finnish @ 2.2
15 87.9% Scottish + 12.1% EE @ 2.22
16 94% Orcadian + 6% Belorussian @ 2.28
17 94.5% Orcadian + 5.5% Northwest_Russian @ 2.28
18 74.7% IE + 25.3% North_Swedish @ 2.29
19 88.3% Scottish + 11.7% East_Finnish @ 2.35
20 72.9% Orcadian + 27.1% DK @ 2.38

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:25 AM

Probably. The English samples in Eurogenes calculators seem to be mostly from the South, and disproportionately from the South West, which is the most southern shifted part of the British Isles.

My EUTest

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.3% DK + 44.7% Scottish @ 2.59
2 51.5% IE + 48.5% DK @ 2.63
3 55.6% Orcadian + 44.4% DK @ 2.96
4 89.3% DK + 10.7% French_Basque @ 2.99
5 66.9% IE + 33.1% NO @ 3.15
6 58.8% Scottish + 41.2% NO @ 3.28
7 61.1% DK + 38.9% Cornish @ 3.36
8 83% NO + 17% French_Basque @ 3.36
9 74.5% Orcadian + 25.5% NO @ 3.38
10 76.2% IE + 23.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.47
11 84.1% IE + 15.9% North_Swedish @ 3.56
12 86% Orcadian + 14% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.63
13 90.7% Orcadian + 9.3% North_Swedish @ 3.64
14 56.6% Cornish + 43.4% NO @ 3.64
15 66.5% IE + 33.5% English @ 3.67
16 80.1% Orcadian + 19.9% English @ 3.69
17 97.5% Orcadian + 2.5% South_Finnish @ 3.75
18 68.3% Scottish + 31.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.77
19 98.6% Orcadian + 1.4% East_Finnish @ 3.77
20 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% IE @ 3.79

My mother's (English Midlands)

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% NL + 34.5% IE @ 2.41
2 77.2% English + 22.8% NO @ 2.56
3 71.6% English + 28.4% IE @ 2.62
4 95.4% English + 4.6% Erzya @ 2.62
5 95.9% English + 4.1% Udmurt @ 2.62
6 94.9% English + 5.1% East_Russian @ 2.63
7 97.5% English + 2.5% Kalash @ 2.65
8 69.5% English + 30.5% DK @ 2.65
9 96% English + 4% Komi @ 2.65
10 65.2% NL + 34.8% Orcadian @ 2.66
11 95.6% English + 4.4% North_Russian @ 2.67
12 89% English + 11% North_Swedish @ 2.69
13 52.1% DK + 47.9% Cornish @ 2.72
14 84% English + 16% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.72
15 95.3% English + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 2.74
16 60.6% Cornish + 39.4% NO @ 2.75
17 72.2% English + 27.8% Orcadian @ 2.75
18 56.4% English + 43.6% NL @ 2.76
19 98% English + 2% Burusho @ 2.76
20 94.6% English + 5.4% South_Finnish @ 2.77

My father's from Ireland, but he's unusually Scandinavian shifted in every calculator.

1 60.2% Scottish + 39.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 0.78
2 56.5% Scottish + 43.5% NO @ 1.04
3 72.2% Scottish + 27.8% North_Swedish @ 1.54
4 71.9% Orcadian + 28.1% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.76
5 68.9% Orcadian + 31.1% NO @ 1.85
6 81.6% Orcadian + 18.4% North_Swedish @ 1.87
7 62.3% IE + 37.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.94
8 92.2% Orcadian + 7.8% EE @ 2
9 90.6% Orcadian + 9.4% South_Finnish @ 2.05
10 55.4% Scottish + 44.6% DK @ 2.05
11 84.8% Scottish + 15.2% South_Finnish @ 2.11
12 58.4% IE + 41.6% NO @ 2.12
13 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% LIT @ 2.16
14 93.2% Orcadian + 6.8% East_Finnish @ 2.2
15 87.9% Scottish + 12.1% EE @ 2.22
16 94% Orcadian + 6% Belorussian @ 2.28
17 94.5% Orcadian + 5.5% Northwest_Russian @ 2.28
18 74.7% IE + 25.3% North_Swedish @ 2.29
19 88.3% Scottish + 11.7% East_Finnish @ 2.35
20 72.9% Orcadian + 27.1% DK @ 2.38

Right, which is the normal state of affairs when someone samples England they inevitably do it in the South whether that be SouthEast or SouthWest. It never seems to be Northern England. Also, Cornwall is the most French shifted. He has Welsh ancestry too and the Cornish and SouthWest English have more Welsh ancestry than the SouthEast.

RyoHazuki

12-18-2019, 01:26 AM

Alright, the Welsh were conquered by the English and some parts of Wales are more are more Anglo-Saxon than others and you did not say where your German ancestry was from so the German and southern French etc... could come out to more d'oil.

Alright , then the Eastern mediterenean heritage and the Iberian is making your @ a 4.X distance rather than a hyer close 1.x or 0.x distance.

SouthEast English people are a quarter German and 45% French and this says nothing of 'northern French d'oil' :

https://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2015/03/19/26C86A2700000578-3000998-The_study_found_that_Britain_can_be_divided_into_1 7_distinct_gen-a-4_1426776373068.jpg

It does not claim you are the average Englishman. Anything below an Fst distance of 5 you can pass as a native of that population but obviously an Fst distance of like 1.X or 0.x is more 'true English' and norids are a minority population of England and Scotland.

1/3 I have no idea where in Germany its from, it doesn't come out to more than 4% regardless.
2/3 I don't think YOU know what you are talking about, you don't distinguish between North and South France. England has affinity with the North, not the Basque-like South. When French is spoken of in genetic terms, Southern French is always distinguished. If an English person shows continuity with any part of France, its the Northwestern/Flemish like people. If EUtest says its normal for an Englishman to be 1/4 Basque, then its sampling from areas where its most prevalent (and a minority/outlier).
3/3 Screw you.

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:33 AM

My results :

Least-squares method.

Using 1 population approximation:
1 Orcadian @ 2.574961
2 Cornish @ 2.933040
3 IE @ 2.936650
4 Scottish @ 3.649033
5 English @ 4.968704
6 NL @ 5.753273
7 West_&_Central_German @ 6.984549
8 DK @ 7.556407
9 NO @ 9.347711
10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 10.216995
11 FR @ 12.779552
12 North_Swedish @ 14.182756
13 AT @ 14.849240
14 HU @ 20.756618
15 ES @ 21.049469
16 PT @ 21.159187
17 South_Finnish @ 23.617468
18 Serbian @ 23.981577
19 French_Basque @ 25.108801
20 North_Italian @ 25.703535

Using 2 populations approximation:
1 50% Cornish +50% Scottish @ 1.983895

Using 3 populations approximation:
1 50% Cornish +25% Orcadian +25% Scottish @ 1.866147

Using 4 populations approximation:
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
1 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Scottish @ 1.866147
2 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Scottish @ 1.924833
3 Cornish + NL + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.948559
4 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Orcadian @ 1.982839
5 Cornish + Cornish + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.983895
6 Cornish + English + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.024002
7 Cornish + Scottish + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.038185
8 Cornish + English + IE + Scottish @ 2.045248
9 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.054268
10 Cornish + Cornish + IE + IE @ 2.056024
11 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.070937
12 Cornish + IE + NL + Scottish @ 2.075182
13 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.100566
14 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.113623
15 Cornish + English + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.115359
16 Cornish + Cornish + Cornish + Scottish @ 2.126487
17 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.137176
18 Cornish + IE + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.161934
19 Cornish + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 2.173082
20 Cornish + NL + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.176204

https://i.postimg.cc/SN5Hs1tz/ancestry.jpg

RyoHazuki

12-18-2019, 01:33 AM

Probably. The English samples in Eurogenes calculators seem to be mostly from the South, and disproportionately from the South West, which is the most southern shifted part of the British Isles.

My EUTest

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 55.3% DK + 44.7% Scottish @ 2.59
2 51.5% IE + 48.5% DK @ 2.63
3 55.6% Orcadian + 44.4% DK @ 2.96
4 89.3% DK + 10.7% French_Basque @ 2.99
5 66.9% IE + 33.1% NO @ 3.15
6 58.8% Scottish + 41.2% NO @ 3.28
7 61.1% DK + 38.9% Cornish @ 3.36
8 83% NO + 17% French_Basque @ 3.36
9 74.5% Orcadian + 25.5% NO @ 3.38
10 76.2% IE + 23.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.47
11 84.1% IE + 15.9% North_Swedish @ 3.56
12 86% Orcadian + 14% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.63
13 90.7% Orcadian + 9.3% North_Swedish @ 3.64
14 56.6% Cornish + 43.4% NO @ 3.64
15 66.5% IE + 33.5% English @ 3.67
16 80.1% Orcadian + 19.9% English @ 3.69
17 97.5% Orcadian + 2.5% South_Finnish @ 3.75
18 68.3% Scottish + 31.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 3.77
19 98.6% Orcadian + 1.4% East_Finnish @ 3.77
20 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% IE @ 3.79

My mother's (English Midlands)

# Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
1 65.5% NL + 34.5% IE @ 2.41
2 77.2% English + 22.8% NO @ 2.56
3 71.6% English + 28.4% IE @ 2.62
4 95.4% English + 4.6% Erzya @ 2.62
5 95.9% English + 4.1% Udmurt @ 2.62
6 94.9% English + 5.1% East_Russian @ 2.63
7 97.5% English + 2.5% Kalash @ 2.65
8 69.5% English + 30.5% DK @ 2.65
9 96% English + 4% Komi @ 2.65
10 65.2% NL + 34.8% Orcadian @ 2.66
11 95.6% English + 4.4% North_Russian @ 2.67
12 89% English + 11% North_Swedish @ 2.69
13 52.1% DK + 47.9% Cornish @ 2.72
14 84% English + 16% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 2.72
15 95.3% English + 4.7% East_Finnish @ 2.74
16 60.6% Cornish + 39.4% NO @ 2.75
17 72.2% English + 27.8% Orcadian @ 2.75
18 56.4% English + 43.6% NL @ 2.76
19 98% English + 2% Burusho @ 2.76
20 94.6% English + 5.4% South_Finnish @ 2.77

My father's from Ireland, but he's unusually Scandinavian shifted in every calculator.

1 60.2% Scottish + 39.8% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 0.78
2 56.5% Scottish + 43.5% NO @ 1.04
3 72.2% Scottish + 27.8% North_Swedish @ 1.54
4 71.9% Orcadian + 28.1% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.76
5 68.9% Orcadian + 31.1% NO @ 1.85
6 81.6% Orcadian + 18.4% North_Swedish @ 1.87
7 62.3% IE + 37.7% South_&_Central_Swedish @ 1.94
8 92.2% Orcadian + 7.8% EE @ 2
9 90.6% Orcadian + 9.4% South_Finnish @ 2.05
10 55.4% Scottish + 44.6% DK @ 2.05
11 84.8% Scottish + 15.2% South_Finnish @ 2.11
12 58.4% IE + 41.6% NO @ 2.12
13 94.2% Orcadian + 5.8% LIT @ 2.16
14 93.2% Orcadian + 6.8% East_Finnish @ 2.2
15 87.9% Scottish + 12.1% EE @ 2.22
16 94% Orcadian + 6% Belorussian @ 2.28
17 94.5% Orcadian + 5.5% Northwest_Russian @ 2.28
18 74.7% IE + 25.3% North_Swedish @ 2.29
19 88.3% Scottish + 11.7% East_Finnish @ 2.35
20 72.9% Orcadian + 27.1% DK @ 2.38

Whoever made the English samples need samples from more parts of the country, while someone from the SW is similar to my admixture, we do not represent people from the North and the East (ie the most densely populated areas of England).

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:35 AM

1/3 I have no idea where in Germany its from, it doesn't come out to more than 4% regardless.
2/3 I don't think YOU know what you are talking about, you don't distinguish between North and South France. England has affinity with the North, not the Basque-like South. When French is spoken of in genetic terms, Southern French is always distinguished. If an English person shows continuity with any part of France, its the Northwestern/Flemish like people. If EUtest says its normal for an Englishman to be 1/4 Basque, then its sampling from areas where its most prevalent (and a minority/outlier).
3/3 Screw you.

Look at my results you fucking moron it is not southern shifted. It says I am Oracadian+Scottish+Cornish which pretty much matches my livingdna results more or less.

You asshole your female ancestors probably cheated on their husbands or something !

JamesBond007

12-18-2019, 01:37 AM

Whoever made the English samples need samples from more parts of the country, while someone from the SW is similar to my admixture, we do not represent people from the North and the East (ie the most densely populated areas of England).

I agree it is southern shifted but not in the sense that he is saying it in. It is southern shifted in the English sense of the term but he is using it the continental sense of the term so he is wrong.

RyoHazuki

12-18-2019, 01:48 AM

I agree it is southern shifted but not in the sense that he is saying it in. It is southern shifted in the English sense of the term but he is using it the continental sense of the term so he is wrong.

By Southern shifted, I didn't insinuate as Europeans, but as Britons. The people of that part of England have ancient ancestry giving them a unique signature (a modern equivalent would be to mine). Like how Southern Germans are like Irish mixed with Serbs/Romanians, despite being insular. Interestingly, my closest match on Vahaduo are Cornish people. I get comparatively low distances due to my recent ancestry spanning North and South Europe, as well as my English family having lived in America for some time and experiencing a slight divergence from Isles people.